'Full-time children' now want out?
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Discussion keeps the world turning. This is Roundtable. What happens when young adults swap independence for family care? Full-time children, the term for those who live with their parents managing the home in exchange for support, are now questioning if it's time to leave the nest for good. Well, is it time to quit?

And then we turn to the highly competitive robot vacuum market where these robo cleaners fly off the shelves, yet still struggling to turning a profit. Coming to you live from Beijing, this is Roundtable. I'm He Yang. For today's program, I'm joined by Steve Hatherly and Yu Shun in the studio. First on today's show.

The term full-time offspring, or full-time children, first gained traction in late 2022, sparking widespread discussion on social media platforms and then mainstream media outlets in China. It refers to the phenomenon where young adults return to live with their parents, taking on household chores and caregiving duties in exchange for financial support.

from parents. Now, nearly two years later, a shift has emerged. Many of these so-called full-time children are expressing online a desire to step away from their domestic roles and possibly reenter the workforce. So, Steve, when you first saw this term, full-time children, during our status meeting, you

Were you a little puzzled? Just by the terminology? Yeah, I didn't know what a full-time... I mean, I thought I was a full-time child growing up. I was always a child to my parents. So that's what the term meant to me. But then, yeah, as I learned a little bit more about it and the reasons behind why kids are going back to stay with their parents again, then I understood further. And we have terms in...

North America or in the West that are somehow related but still not quite exactly the same. Boomerang kids, have you ever heard the term boomerang kids before? Those are kids who will leave home and then because of financial difficulties they'll come back to live with their parents.

And then there's another example of a term. It's called failure to launch. And this is even, this is just harsh. The definition of that, it's a phrase to describe a young person who's unable or even unwilling to leave their parents home and try to make it on their own. But that's totally different. That's because of a poor work ethic, lack of motivation. Yeah, that's a different group. That's not what we're talking about here today at all. But just a

quick question, though. Do you sense that maybe boomerang kids is just euphemism for, sorry to say, failure to launch? No, I don't think so, because failure to launch, and again, you know, don't go around using this term. It's not a very nice term to use about people, but it's used to describe a group who they don't want to try. Oh.

Yeah, whereas boomerang kids, you know, they might be out there trying to work, trying to get a job, but, you know, life becomes too expensive and they can't handle it. And then, you know, just like a boomerang does, they come back, hence the term. So those two groups are different groups of people. Then I think in this case, at least according to these full-time children, they're different because they're more likely they want to take a break because...

maybe because of some their exhausting work lives or just they're looking for a gap year to find jobs or just study for higher educational opportunities and then they have an environment that can support them to do that so that they come back to their family's home and then be a full-time children so as you said maybe there are differences but they have something

the same right so i think this seems to be something that has always existed and um and another situation here in china is that parents are often happy to have their children come back because i think most likely maybe it's because of the cultural difference um there are no that kind of a stigma that children living in parents house is something that um

It's not weird. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's one, you know, I've lived in Asia for, well, half my life actually. And I think it's one of the, uh,

the largest differences that I can find. You know, it's funny when I, when people ask me about culture differences between the West and Asia, I can find more similarities than I can find differences. But this is, this is one of the differences. Yeah. In, in, in, in China and in Korea and in other countries as well, in this part of the world, living at home with your parents, perhaps until you get married is not considered fun.

a weird thing. It's considered a norm. But in Western culture, and I don't know the history behind this part of Western culture, but we are...

Expected? No, expected is too strong a word. It's just the norm to move out of your house, out of your parents' home when you're about 18 years old because that's when university starts. And perhaps part of the reason for that, I was trying to think why, you know, when I went to university in Halifax, Nova Scotia in Canada, I had friends who lived at home with their parents during their university years because they were going to school in Halifax and they were from Halifax.

So their family's home was quite close, whereas I was from a couple of hours away. So I lived in a university dorm. So when I say that, you know, it's the norm for kids to move out at 18 and pursue their studies, part of it's because the universities are often quite far away.

If they're close, they tend to stay home or they can stay home. So even with that being said, we can find a similarity there, right? It's not everyone in Western culture that at 18 you don't have to leave your house. It's just kind of the norm. It's just kind of what happens.

happens. Oh, well, it's good to know that you don't have to be kicked out. No, it's not like on your 18th birthday, the front door is open with your suitcase outside. No, it's not like that at all. Oh, okay, great. So it's not that drastic, and that's good to know. And here in China, it's really interesting that in the last two years-ish, we've seen that initially when the term emerged, well, you know,

those who work in the media are often excited when new terms or labels surface. So we have something to talk about. And here at the time, what was maybe kind of new, or maybe the phenomenon isn't all that new, but this part being parsed out is new, is that in exchange for this

Okay, mom and dad provide a bed for you to sleep in and possibly meals as well, those kind of things. You are going to fulfill your duty of filial piety in exchange for that. So you're maybe doing some housework. Maybe you're taking parents to the hospitals for a checkup or something like that. And

yeah, take the garbage out in the morning. I mean, these sound like small things, but with full-time children,

The agreement, the unspoken agreement is you're not just home mooching off parents' assets and their care. The failure to launch. But you're also in exchange providing some care for your parents as well. Isn't that what you should do when you're just staying at home? I mean, you're not financially supporting this family and you're staying at home and your parents are...

maybe having that kind of pension or they're still working. So these kind of little things, I would say, just something that you can do. And in this way, I think it comes to the idea that, okay, maybe there are some differences between different cultures, but still,

In the Chinese context, I think, you know, when you're just staying at home and not doing anything, your parents or even your neighbors or just relatives will think that, ah, you're just staying at home and not doing anything. It's just not good. And people will or may have that kind of idea on you that it's not good. Question. Full-time, the term full-time children, does this imply some kind of employment?

Meaning, these examples that we're talking about here in China, they're not contracted, right? It's not like they're signing a contract with their parents. No.

But when they do come back home, they are receiving a kind of payment for the things that you've just mentioned, right? Like taking out the garbage and driving the parents to the grocery store, doing the grocery shopping and cooking the meals and things like that. As you mentioned, you should like, oh, well, shouldn't they be doing that anyway? Yeah, maybe. But this is a little bit different, right? Because in many cases, not every, but in many cases, they are receiving some form of payment for their services here too, right? Yeah.

I would say sometimes, but it's hard to imagine so many Chinese families for the parents to hand you some cash or make the digital transaction on WeChat or Alipay every month.

to pay their kids to do stuff like that. I just find that maybe for some families, they don't find that to be odd. But for other families, that is just beyond bizarre. Because for Chinese traditional culture, it's like, you know, this emotional ties between the two generations. It's

It's not supposed to be so transactional. If it's presented in that way, it just makes everybody kind of uncomfortable. But I can also see that for some families, maybe they'll do this. You know, just have the monthly transaction. Who knows? I would say that could be just a monthly allowance for these people, even though they are just adults.

And of course, you need to spend money, even though you're just staying at home. Maybe you need to go out socializing everything. You need money, right? And that's your monthly allowance. And they are treating because this is kind of a topic on social media. And people would like to treat these kind of phenomena or behavior into a kind of a terminology. And then

At least that's why I think the term of full-time children comes up. Okay, and now let's give everybody the latest update. That is after almost two years and this thing has been brewing on social media or whatnot. And now apparently those who have become full-time children or some of them have voiced their desire to grow.

leave this domestic role and they want out and they want back into, I guess, the regular young adult or adult life of being away from the home and live or sink, live or swim in this crazy world out there. So what do you think explains this latest shift or maybe this discussion on social media?

I was, first of all, as I said, maybe there are still some stigmas among these kind of behavior and that they are coming from their relatives and neighborhoods saying that even though you're just doing things for your family at the moment, but you're still...

from outside you're just staying at home and doing nothing. So with these kind of, I would say social pressure, people would still need to go out.

and trying to do something. But another thing is that the reason that these people would like to be quote-unquote full-time children is that they have a legitimate reason to stay at home. Maybe they're trying to get further educational degrees, and also they're trying to prepare for some exams. Yeah, or even a gap year, right? Yes. So the reasons why...

pardon me that these kids might come back home are this is very similar to what happens in western culture by the way you know kids will go out my sister my sister did this she came back home when she was 26 years old because something happened with the company she was working for and she needed to find another job and in the meantime she came back home and i think she was there i remember for about six months or a year or something and then off she went again um

But the kids here in China who have come back home and then, as you mentioned, they want to go again. There's some different reasons that have been stated in terms of why they might want to do that. And one of the reasons is they start to fear that they can't provide the needed financial support for their parents.

by simply staying at home 24-7. And that could be true particularly perhaps for those kids who came back for a gap year, where they'll realize at some point that the stagnation in their personal growth or in their inability to financially support their parents will become...

a hindrance to their family. And I guess the reason they think like that, and maybe it's fair to think like that as well, is when you do come home and you're being the full-time child and you're doing the grocery shopping and the cooking and the laundry and all of those things, yes, it's wonderful financial support, but

They are also putting their own lives on hold, you could argue. That's probably not true in every case, of course. But the argument could be made that for their own self-fulfillment, for their own progress, that might be holding them back a little bit. That is a very good point. And also...

Well, this is maybe not a particularly new argument, but for anybody to look at the workforce, especially if you on your resume, there's a gap in between employment. When you start looking for a job again, often you need to.

describe, explain, and that could be some kind of emotion. Sorry, that could be called employment scarring of some sort. So, but now in China, at least, you know, everybody has heard of the term full-time offspring or full-time children. So maybe you have better luck in explaining what

You did for those disappearing years. Yeah, that could be. But again, that could be another reason, although I think it's pretty easy to explain to a potential employer. Here's another reason, and I think this is valid as well. The family relationship, it might be hard to maintain a balance between

Within the family relationship, you know, where the parents are typically sometimes in the same city, sometimes not. But often there's a little a buffer or a barrier, if you will, that allows for some breathing room within the family, if you know what I'm trying to say. But if everybody's together all the time, all day, every day, that might put a real strain on.

on the family relationship too. As I illustrated before, most of the parents in China would welcome their kids to come back and just live with them. Why do you think is that? They want their kids to, I mean, at least in my surrounding environment, most of the parents

At least, as I said, the different culture maybe. Kids would like to be independent and move out. But in Chinese families, it is not a must-do thing. Yeah, and also for more than a couple of generations of Chinese people born in the 1980s and 1990s, if you're born in a city, then the reality is...

more often than not, you're the only child. And therefore, for the already close tied families in the Chinese traditional culture, when you only have one child,

And then maybe the parents are a little bit more welcoming when the kid, grown up young adults come back home. Because there is only one child. And yeah, and there's also something kind of interesting within the Chinese family dynamic. This has been explained decades ago by.

what is his name? I can't remember his name, but the book is so famous, From the Soil, the Foundations of Chinese Society, Xiangtu Zhongguo. So the author explains that in China, at least, you know, it's through the grandparents looking after the grandchildren and the grown-up

The middle layer of grown-up children looking after their elderly parents when they are old and frail. Because it's like a responsibility, right? And there's this exchange of taking care of each other. It's not through the initial birth connection. Do they have this super interwined and...

intergenerational dependent relationship. So therefore, in this situation, then when you're looking after your parents, and then your parents are kind of

They're already often, if they have the means, supporting their grown up children with child care, with their marriage, with getting an apartment in a different city. So in a way, I think, you know, everything is a bit like not so clear cut, I guess, in the Chinese economy.

family, household with these multiple generations? Well, from what I understand, and again, you know, what I've learned while living in Asia is only based upon my experiences and also the people that I've known. So that's limited, right? So we have to take that with a grain of salt. But from what I've seen, it's almost like, you know, the parents will spend

Their time raising you, taking care of your education, your housing, your food and all of that, taking care of you up until the time when you're an adult. And then when they get to a certain age, then it's your turn to take care of them. And it's reciprocal in that sense.

Am I wrong at anything that I just said there? No, no. Right? I feel like there's a stronger sense of that that doesn't necessarily exist in Western culture. Oh, that's correct. I think so. Right? But that's not to say, Yushan, you just mentioned, you know, maybe it's a culture difference. Parents are more likely to welcome their children back if they're having hard financial times. I would say that's incorrect. Right?

And that's a misconception, I think, about Western culture because of what we see in the movies. I mentioned it before, you know, 18 years old, get out, you know, you're going to school and the parents are like, woohoo, the kids are gone finally. Yeah, you see that in the movies.

But it's not like if the kids need help and I need to come home, the parents say, nope, sorry, you're 23 years old. You had your chance and now you got to sink or swim on your own. It's not like that. And to support that argument, actually, during COVID, we saw so many reports coming from the U.S. and other parts of North America about this.

Well, you know, something as big as a global pandemic disrupts everybody's lives and then people might don't have a place to live in big cities anymore and they go home. Absolutely. And this is happening in the United States as we speak. And when you said COVID is to blame, it absolutely is to blame. And there's census data from the states that came out recently saying

And you might find this surprising or not, more than half of young adult men and women aged 18 to 24 are living at home. That's half. So what we're seeing here is...

And, you know, I mentioned before, it's easy to find similarities between cultures. It's happening in Canada and it's happening in the United States now, too. COVID, we are still experiencing the results of COVID. And the same thing happened during the financial crisis of 2008, 2009. It took years for them to figure out why boomerang kids were coming back home. And they came up with this term failure to launch, which is a terrible term. But it took them years to figure out it was because of

What was happening economically? And we're still experiencing the difficulties economically of COVID-19 around the world. And in North America, this is one of the reasons why young people are choosing to stay at home right now.

And also, yeah, thank you for your explanations back then. But what I was trying to say is that, you know, some received love and peace at the beginning, but not sustainably. Because I think we have a discussion like that. You know, when you're back home, like kids work in another city and they're back home. There is a honeymoon period where like for like a couple of days that parents are so sad.

- Heartwarming, but after a while, some parents begin to ask their children-- - You're still here? - How long will you just stay there and maintain this kind of status?

the kids or the children will think about, oh, should I just go back to the track that I used to have? Well, do you think that these full-time children or those who have been through this experience for some time, is there a lesson that they've learned or maybe we can learn from them from that experience? It's difficult to answer because there are so many different reasons why they might be doing that.

My friend in Canada is doing it right now because his parents need taking care of for their health reasons. And he had traveled around the world and done jobs in different countries, but he's now home doing that. So he, at his age, is a full-time child and he's in his mid-40s, but he's doing that out of a sense of responsibility to take care of his family.

his parents. But, you know, so there's a lesson to be learned there about family responsibilities. But, you know, another person who was doing it for a gap year, um, that would be a different lesson. So do you see what I mean? It's hard to come up with a blanket answer for that. I think, I think at least people who are doing this need to know what they are doing and what they're trying to do. Of course you can, uh, stay at home maybe for preparation for exam or, uh,

Like there is something that you really need to pursue, but there is some kind of financial crisis that you're having. But at least you are doing something and you need to let your parents know that you have an aim and that is something that you need to pursue. And also every family is different. Yeah, exactly. Every set of circumstances is totally different. And some people might want to be doing that and other people might not want to be doing that. So it's hard to say. And also it's a privilege that isn't really for everyone.

everyone, while it might not seem so apparent, returning home is actually a privilege and a reflection on a family's financial stability. Full-time offspring can be an option for those families who feel, well, there isn't as much financial strain. And usually they have two people collecting pensions and supporting three people, or maybe there's other financial means, other financial vehicles generating income. So...

So it's not even an option for some people. And also just to look at the general Chinese society, I feel like the family thing, it really have become serving as safe sanctuaries, you know, and that's also absorbing some economic strain that could otherwise fall on society. And that's all we have to say about this topic.