The Undisputed Champion Of Neck Tattoos w/ Cody Rhodes | 2 Bears, 1 Cave
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What's up, everybody? It's Tom Segura. We're almost into the new year, and I'll be bringing my come-together tour to a bunch of more cities in 2025. January 18th, I'll be in Philadelphia. I haven't been there in a while. January 24th, San Francisco. The 25th of January, I'm in Reno. January 30th, I'm in Athens, Georgia. And January 31st, Savannah. February 1st, I'll be in North Charleston. I can't wait to hit all these cities. Get your tickets now at

at tomscrow.com slash tour and I will see you there.

Welcome to another episode of Two Bears, One Cave. I'm Tom, he's Bert, and joining us today, we don't often get to say this, but we're actually being joined by a world champion. So please put your hands together for the one and only Cody Rhodes, everybody. Cody Rhodes. And then a huge announcement because the platform of Netflix just keeps expanding. But for people who don't know, Raw is going to Netflix on January 6th. And so far...

Sports on the amount of things that they've done is pretty limited, but it's been a huge hit. It's fucking huge, man. So congrats. Live sports on Netflix and seeing...

Paul and Tyson and what they're doing at the NFL Christmas. It's the direction it seems like Netflix is going. I'm really excited that we've gotten in early on it all and what Raw looks like on Netflix will be very different from what it looks like currently and in a way similar as well, but I'm very excited.

And, you know, I was at the Paul Tyson fight. And if your guys could be anything like that, it'll be really electric. What did you think of it? It was a dog shit fucking fight. It was one of the worst things I've ever seen. We were fourth row. Like, this is going to be fucking, fucking amazing. And that undercard with Serrano Taylor, the women. Oh, such a good fight. It was phenomenal. And that got us even more gassed up. We're like, oh, shit, this is going to be fucking nuts. And then we got in there and watched a light sparring match.

That was like, what the fuck is this? It was crazy. I know there was like all these conspiracy theories, which is a natural thing that happens. But one thing that, I mean, it doesn't matter whether you're there or you watch it, is like, it was clear that neither guy pressed. Like, you know, when you watch boxing, you see people set things up with jabs and then a

a jab usually at some moment creates an opening where you attack. It's like the basic fundamentals of boxing. And you would watch that happen. You're like, Ooh, like right here. And then by the fifth round, you're like, I think they're just going to hang out. Like sparring. That's exactly what it looked like. My only moments with Mike Tyson and I, I will treasure this moment always. He was a,

Gosh, I think he was just ringside for a match of mine. He was presenting the championship after the match, but he saw other wrestlers backstage. And he seemed very, and I don't want to say out of it, because he was the sweetest, wonderful person. It was very nice to talk to him, but he wasn't saying much. And he just kind of seemed to be, I guess, deer in headlights a little bit. And he's watching all these guys oil up, and they're using the bands, and they're pumping up and all that. And he just looked at me.

And I'm getting ready to go out. I'm getting ready to go out. And at the time, I was also in a management position. So I'm directing something, some shot, something. He looked at me and just said, do I need oil? And those are those moments where it's like, it's Mike Tyson. I want this relationship to be good.

So I'm in my mind thinking, what's he thinking? Does he think he does need the oil? Well, then I said, yeah, sure, sure. Oil up. And then so he took his shirt off. So now Mike never had to have his shirt off for this. Mike's standing there just looking at me with his shirt off. And I remember he had like no belt on his jeans too. It's just a lot happening. This is the greatest fighter, you know, potentially ever and someone I really, really like. But he just took the bottle and kind of went like,

You do it. To me. And he put a little in his hands and he puts them on his chest, but then he turned around. Sure. Just oiled them up. And, you know, he looked good and I'm...

I've put oil on another wrestler before. This wasn't the strangest thing, but the weirdest thing was right after that, he just threw his shirt right back on over it. No. And I thought, what was the point? Are you prepping for you take the shirt? A lot of wrestlers might think at this point I'm going to rip my shirt or whatever, but you're not doing anything like that tonight. And I do think he actually got his shirt off at one point, but yeah, I oiled him up. I always felt good about that decision.

To oil up Mike. That might be the best story that's ever been told on this podcast. It's fucking fantastic. That might be my favorite fucking story. What kind of person would I have been to say no, Mike? Bro, I met him on a flight. Yeah. He was a fucking fan of yours. Well, it was a peculiar evolution where I had straight up panic about approaching him.

Because I was like, you know, I was listening to like old guys going like, hey, Mike, you remember 1987? He was like, yeah. Like, just like, I was like, don't be like... So I just worked up. It was like, it took like, I actually thought of it as courage because I totally...

I was like, don't bother him. But then I was like, you never, this will never happen. Yeah. And I gave him, I reached into my bag. And at the time I had one special out and I had a DVD and I gave it to him. And I was like, I'm a comedian. Yeah. And then he was like, he was like, cool. Like,

where are you going right now? I was like, we're both going to Pittsburgh. We're on a plane. So that's what we're doing. And he was like, oh, where's your show? And I was like, it's at the Improv. He was like, where's that? And I was like, I don't know, man. It's wherever the Pittsburgh Improv is. I don't know the geography of Pittsburgh. And then he was like, oh, cool. And then he gave me a fist bump. And I was thrilled at the interaction. I was like, I had a moment with Mike Tyson. And then I sat down.

and i'm just like i'm literally like my heart's racing right because like i i felt like it took a lot just to say something i was like i also kind of scared because i don't know if he was gonna be like leave me the alone right so i was like and then i just feel him this hand grab my shoulder and he's standing above me he goes yeah i know who you are and i was like what wow and he he holds the dvd he's like this picture i was like yeah that's the i just gave that to you and so

I was like, and then he leans down to my ear. This is almost like your oil thing. He leans down to my ear and I'm like, what the fuck is he going to do? And he leans down, he goes, I've been watching a lot of Netflix. That's it. And then he stands up and I was like, me too. What a great. And he goes, yeah. So he goes, give me your number. And I'm like, okay. Yeah. So I give him my number.

And I'm like, this is like we land and I just fucking like run off the plane because I don't want anything to go wrong. Yeah. And then I'm like, well, that was that. He's not because so many I've met so many celebrities who are like, give me I'll give you a call or you can we can do we should do a thing together. You're like, sure. And so next day phone rings. It's Mike Tyson. Wow. He goes, we're coming to your show tonight. And I go.

okay. So I call the club and I'm like, Mike Tyson's coming to the show. And they're like, sure. Like they don't believe me. And they're like, I'm like, okay. So then I get to the club. I'm in the green room. There's like a hundred people there. It's a Thursday night. And they're like, manager comes in. He's like, dude, Mike Tyson's here. I was like, I know, dude, I told you. And then he fucking, I can,

hear him during the show hitting the table. He's hitting the table while he laughs. Oh, you had him, man. I had him for a second. And then the show ends and he fucking... He grabs me. He's like, let's go to the green room. So he takes me to my green room. To your own green room, yeah. And then he just starts smoking cigarettes. And by his fifth cigarette, he goes, he goes, you got a window? I go, it's a little late for that. Your fifth fucking cigarette. He goes, you got one? And I go, no. And he goes...

He goes, that's when you'll know you've made it, when your green room's got a window. I just hung out for an hour. Wow. Yeah, and I just asked him. And I remember telling him, I was like, yeah, you know, it's crazy watching you guys train, like the training videos of those guys. And I just stupidly, I go, you know, like Roy Jones Jr. And he goes, yeah.

I was like, oh yeah, why did I say him? I was like, I should say you. Watching you train. That's like the hat trick of the celebrity heroic sports figure. Everything went right. It was incredible. You got the number, you got wisdom. Yeah, it was incredible. And he told stories and like, I would throw out names of boxers and he would be like, that guy's a bitch. And I was like, oh my gosh. Oh,

That's the dream. I have one more actual Mike Tyson moment that I don't know why I have, I guess I've run into Mike on a couple occasions, but he got inducted into the WWE Hall of Fame. He did? He did, yeah. Because he was a big part of WrestleMania in Boston with Steve Austin and Shawn Michaels. It's like the attitude era was coming into its own and Mike was there. He gives Shawn this unbelievable right hook at the end. It's just great stuff, but

He got inducted in the Hall of Fame, and I was sitting with my wife, and he started going on about my dad. And my dad had a very large black fan base, very large. And he was talking about how my dad was kind of the first black world champion, even though he was a white man from Austin, Texas and all this. And he was kind of, you know, he's obviously ribbon on the square here, and he was talking about, like, blaxploitation and just making these jokes. These are jokes that, as a white person, I feel like...

I can't have a reaction to these. I need to just, you know. But my wife is black. So she's sitting next to me. So they keep, every time he makes a joke, they kept shooting us. And I was just like...

You know, like every time he made a joke and they'd pop on us, I'm like, oh man, please. Like, I would have been gone. I would have left this early. Like, gosh, yeah. Mike, man. Mike's the best. Yeah, he's incredible. What does the future hold for business? Ask nine experts and you'll get 10 answers.

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Your dad was the fucking best. Well, you're from, we were talking about Florida. I saw your dad wrestle at the Tampa Armory. Oh my gosh, Fort Hesterly. Yeah, it was, I mean, your dad was the, I still go back and watch promos your dad did. Like, they're just so fucking. The promo era of those guys is the best promo era.

I mean, it was so much more important than the match to talk people into the venue, to talk them to do that. Actually, I'm so excited to see him this morning because when I met Burt on doing Go Big Show season one, I think Burt and the whole Go Big Show production had a very different idea of what wrestling looks like in 2021 or whenever it was. And Burt,

it took a full season for them to kind of realize like, okay, Cody's a different type of performer. You know, like there's a different, it's changed. It's evolved because at first I think he was really expecting like,

They kept asking me, are you going to be in your gear at the judging seat? I'm like, no. You're not going to be oiled up? Exactly. No oil, not in my gear. It was one of those things. But it was fun because I said this earlier. Burt is one of the most wrestler-ish

He's one of the biggest pro wrestlers I've ever met who's not a pro wrestler. You're not the first person to make that observation. Oh my gosh. Right out of meeting Burt. And I don't know if I've ever told you this story, but it was amazing. It was genuinely inspiring. I met Burt. They had this dinner, COVID production, one of the first productions ever.

That was happening during COVID. We're all in this bubble. Rosario Dawson, Jennifer Nettles, Burt, Snoop Dogg, me. We go to this dinner, and right away I met Burt, and he basically explained himself to me in three minutes as to why he was amazing, why he was famous. There was a movie rights on his name, and I thought –

dog, this guy out-wrestled me. Because that used to be a skill that every wrestler had, the self-promotion. Yes. And I mean, so basically he made it so that if I didn't know him, there was going to be no discomfort because you know me now. In our business, he is known as the promo king. Oh my gosh, I love that. And honestly, I just took from your dad because your dad was the best promo. Oh man. And so one of the reasons when we hung out, I was...

I remember telling you, I was like, because we all went to dinner and then me and you kind of connected because you like whiskey, you like cigars. Yeah. And I like both those things. Yeah. And a few other things too. And you like listening to me talk about myself. Yeah, yeah. And so, but I remember saying to you, I was like, yeah, I'm not really like, I don't really know much about wrestling. And you're like, okay. And then in like 15 minutes later, you're like, hold on, you're,

you're bringing up names that only a wrestling fan would know. And I was like, well, everyone knows LeVon Eriks. And you're like, no, they don't know. And I was like, come on. The Claw? Do you remember when Ric Flair and Kerry Von Erickson and you're like... Oh, Christmas Day. That fucking match. I have a weird question about Netflix.

How much bigger is this audience going to be than an average viewing audience? Like when you guys do Raw... Well, it's tremendous potential. I mean, it's global. It's the potential because when we were sitting there for that fight and two hours before, there was a Netflix executive next to me. So he's like...

He goes, there's 30 million people right now on the service. And then the next fight started and he's like, it's 45 million people now. And then right before the fight, he goes, we have 100 million different subscribers. That's just subscribers, like accounts on right now. And then people were like, oh, you know, the signal is all scrambled. Like people were buffering issues. And it's like, well, yeah, you have 100 million subscribers watching. This is going to be fucking huge. I think...

There's a lot of our library content, like our evergreen content, so much great wrestling history, Raw itself coming to Netflix. It's always, so from the pro wrestler standpoint, I always go out there with the idea that they've never seen me before. Yeah. So I got to give them a little burp.

- Yeah, you put it on the show, right? - I gotta give him a little, like I need them to know right out of the gate, okay, this is who he is, this is what she does, whatever it may be. And this is one of those cases where when the old timers and the producers and all the people we have backstage, kind of our wise men who help put the show together, when they say something like, hey, there's a lot of new eyeballs out there, this will be one of those situations where it really is. - Really truly is. - Really truly is. And you have the chance to hook 'em. And I, you know, there's such a carny element

to how pro wrestling used to be in terms of like reeling in a mark for something to watch. Now the audience is so sophisticated, so changed, and you have new eyeballs who've never seen it. You can't just hook them. It can't be cheap. They have to actually see someone authentically that they like. And then hopefully they stay on board. That's kind of the goal. It was fascinating watching the, I was watching the Vince McMahon doc and watching the history, like the evolution. Oh, man.

And, you know, there was, I mean, there's a lot of aspects to it, but just the fact how

I didn't, you know, because I had no idea that it was, everybody had territories and different markets. Oh, yeah. Didn't cross. For real? Oh, yeah. And you didn't cross territories. And one of the things that they credit Vince with is being kind of brazen enough at one point to be like, fuck him. We're going to go do it in this guy's territory. And then everyone's like, what are you, like mob shit, basically. So mob stuff genuinely. Yeah. This was your whole livelihood. You know, my father...

There's an individual in the wrestling space that I model a lot of the character I have after today. Most people don't know him because it was pre-Cable, pre-even closed circuits, Eddie Graham, who was in charge of championship wrestling from Florida, who was my dad's mentor. His son...

Steve Graham? No, Mike Graham. Mike Graham. I went to high school with his daughter and his other son. Yeah. So the Graham family, he was in charge of that Florida territory. Then there was Georgia. Then, of course, in Texas there was world class. Yeah, there's Eddie Graham right there. Yeah, no, he was really ahead of his time. And one of the things that was special about Eddie Graham is he was really big on community activation.

Like I mentioned, you have to be authentic. You can't just be real men in the old-fashioned way. They have to. He spent all this time at the Boys and Girls Club. He was big on going everywhere. That's why it was in the armory in the first place. Yeah. You know, like he was big on just a pro. Pro's pro was Eddie Graham. But he ran Florida. Vince's father, Vince Sr., ran Washington, D.C. and New York. And then you had in Texas multiple territories, AWA. I mean, they didn't cross. And if they crossed, there was a problem.

And they had a, there's a picture that really feels mafia. It really like, maybe that's silly if you know anything of the mafia, or I don't, but there's a picture of them at the NWA convention in Las Vegas, all black and white, all these wrestlers. You see Andre in the back, very unique body types and precision. They're all just facing the camera. That's where they would vote for.

on the world champion because the NWA world champion would go from territory to territory, but other things would not cross. And Vince Jr., Vince McMahon was the first one to say, hey, I'm making the move. Now, you mentioned the Mon Erics. Somebody else was going to do it.

It wasn't a matter of somebody else was going to do it. He just, he beat them to the punch. He beat them to the punch and then everything changed, you know, because closed circuit became pay-per-view and the next thing you know, off and running. I want to ask you this because like, I'm always fascinated by, you know, boys growing up with

Regardless of if someone's dad is an athlete, usually boys either go, I want to be just like my dad or I don't want to be anything like my dad. And when you get to athletes, obviously there's children of athletes who go, I want to do that. Let's say in the NFL. And there's some that do and then there's some that you're like,

You just can't do it. You're not an NFL player, right? Right. Or NBA. In wrestling, like as a kid, were you, I want to be a wrestler, like as a young kid? Or were you kind of like, eh, you know, it's just what my dad does, whatever? Yeah.

So he brought me to a show when I was really young. He was an older dad. He was 39 when he had me. He was an executive producer. He was behind the scenes. He was a wrestling booker. He was helping the creative. So he wasn't in his full prime. But I remember when he brought me to that show, it was UTC Chattanooga. It's a building WWE still runs to this day.

And it was Brad Armstrong, this guy hit an arm drag. And just to hear the reaction and the women screaming out of their mind, it was one of those, I always tell people I have no interest in the inside behind the scenes of wrestling because I lived it. I like to be out. I like to be out there in the crowd. That narrative is what I enjoy. After that, there was nothing I wanted to do more. And you let it be known. Oh my gosh. I mean, nothing. And was it like...

Was he like, great? Or was it like, you got a long way to go, kid. You're going to have to...

So I needed to earn his trust because so many second generations and third generations in the pro wrestling sports entertainment space, they burn out, they turn out bad. I needed to earn his trust, and what I thought I could earn his trust with was actual folk style wrestling. Greco-Roman, freestyle, all that. Because he had never done that. He was straight up promo entertainment, great athlete, but he had never been on the mat before. He didn't even know how it was scored. He would come to my tournaments as a kid, and I'd see him for a takedown, hold up like,

but then it would be a two point. He didn't know. He didn't know. And I was obsessed with it. Full blown vision quest. If you've ever seen that movie, just, I dug in, I did summer camps with Ken Sherritao, Gramby VHS tapes. I'd watch, I made it my whole life. Loved it. Loved it.

And once I ended up winning a state championship as a junior and I'd gone undefeated and I'd gone on team nationals and made my way around. Once that happened, I think whatever I told him I wanted to do, he was good with it. He was good. He was good. I didn't have a curfew anymore. My sister still complains about it to this day. Yeah. Like senior year, they just...

he's fine where is he he's been gone for three days he's fine you know but so you have obviously he wrestled in the place we shot Go Big yeah we walked in we walked in he's like well I haven't been here since I was in high school I was like what he's like I won states in this building twice

Yeah, and that building, the Macon Centriplex, the Macon Coliseum, there was a little electrical closet that was right by where we'd all sit. Bert would be up on stage. We'd be all sitting in the chairs, and I went in there, and I cried my eyes out when I was 16 years old because I had won that tournament. It took everything I could possibly muster to do it, and then I would just walk by it, randomly doing that show with us, and it was just a surreal moment. You want to know something wild? Hit me. Does Bluetooth work?

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Last year I did that Coliseum. Nice. I performed in it. And I walked in. I didn't realize I was in Macon. I didn't realize what I was doing. And I walked in and I went, shut the fuck up. I was like, how the fuck did I get here? And it was so funny because I thought of you because I remember you walking in and going, shut the fuck up. Yeah.

That's a special little building. Yeah. I mean, that is a home to us because we were quarantined. I remember this. And you can only really like me and him hung out. We hung out with our EP. We had kind of just started this show. Conrad. We had just kind of started doing this podcast. Yeah. And you're like, I'm going to do this thing. And I was like, what the fuck is that? I remember telling you, I was like, I'm going to meet Snoop. I need advice on how to meet Snoop. Oh, yeah. And you're like, be yourself. Yeah.

At that meeting. Don't start with like, what it is, cuz. Yeah, I don't think that would go well. We had dinner at that one dinner where everyone's at. When I explained myself to Cody, I think I did the same thing to Snoop, and he was caught off guard by me. Sure. And he just went like this in the middle of it. He hit this.

And he turns the phone around and it's Red Grant. He goes, you know this guy? And Red turns it back and Red goes, he's cool. And he goes like, all right. And he's like, all right, cool. Oh, wow. I was like, oh, you called the right black guy. When I see Bert, my algorithm is all over Bert. You, Bert, Tony, all these things that have come from Bert's world and my interaction with Bert, whenever I see all this popping off,

I'm so glad I get to sit with you today because I never got the chance to tell him. Burt was the spiritual and unofficial leader of that show and was so good at

to all of us. We were trapped in this Marriott connected to the Macon Coliseum. I had the biggest imposter syndrome ever. It's Bert who's talking about selling out Red Rocks, Snoop Dogg, Rosario Dawson who's getting ready to play Ahsoka like is already in. Oh, she told us that our first night. And I'm this big Dave Filoni fan so I know all this stuff. I remember my wife telling me like, you do not, you do not fucking ask me about that show. You,

All right, I won't. I won't. Jennifer Nettles, who at a moment's notice could belt out a song that would just make you cry. She did it. Oh, my gosh. The fucking, you know the song from Shrek? The one, she did it one time. We're in line. And I was like, Jen, I can sing. And she was like, really? And I was like, yeah, yeah, yeah. Listen, I started doing it. And then she started singing over me. And I just went like this. Oh.

She is so, like, I'll tell you. It's so you to be able to go to the singer and be like, I can sing. Oh, bro. He quarterbacked everything. Do you remember when I shot the bullseye with the bucking bow and arrow? Oh, my gosh. Yeah. That was like my highlight. I go, I think I can shoot. And Snoop's like, I'm not getting shot. And

And I'd fucking pulled off a bullseye. If there was ever a show where the sharpshooters weren't sharpshooters, though, it was Go Big Show. They'd have us sit up there and watch these guys, whether it was guns and they were shooting targets or whether it was arrows. And I thought, like, is this a bit? Yeah. These guys are terrible. And then Bert would come to us for like, so what'd you think? I'm like, well...

You missed. You missed most of the shots in there, Matt. Because this was like COVID times. We all need to be really happy. And Snoop had asked, it's not going to be a mean judge. We're going to be all happy. But at a certain point, like... You're like, you're not good at this. Yeah, how do you think you did, man? Yeah.

Oh, no, but I wanted to thank you because you were the unofficial leader to it and you were super sweet to me. Well, you and I were the closest. Me, you, and Conrad. Every night we'd have a glass of wine. You know what's funny? We have something from the show. Oh, fuck off. I know exactly what this is. What is it? I know exactly what this is. It's just for Cody. They messed my name up.

Me and Snoop. Oh, man. I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. I think he started doing it. What's that guy's name? I know that guy. I can't accept any knowledge. Oh, wait. Draw that back for him. There. Hold on. Listen to this. Well, that was Chris Jericho who said it wrong. That was Chris who said it wrong. Purposely? Yeah.

I want to say at that point it had become a bit, perhaps, at that point. But also, and this is not to, gosh, this is not to bury what I was doing at the time and where I was. But Discovery now, or I guess at the time it was Warner Media, sent me to do that show to help with the other show. And I was honored to do it and excited to be picked.

It's wrestling has a bad habit. And this is in all companies everywhere of not understanding. We're in a bubble guys. There's a whole outside world. Yeah. There's multiple mediums of entertainment. Don't be in a bubble. Like don't be afraid to do a little crossover thing. Yeah. Pure hardcore wrestling fans. They may not love it, but there's something on the show that's for them already. Yeah. And that, that was, you know, I hate, I'm not bearing where I formerly was, but not understanding like, you know,

the power, the magnitude, again, of new eyeballs and of crossing over. And also, I hate gatekeeping when it comes to what we do. That's one of the things I do really like about pro wrestling fans and sports entertainment, and I wish the locker rooms would feel this more. We welcome...

Please, if you've never been before, because I know, Tom, you're not a big wrestling fan. This isn't true. I don't know where you've heard this. There's some quotes out there. No, I don't know what you're talking about. But I would say to you, it's like, hey, if you ever dip your toe in, and this is not a show for WrestleMania 41, it could be WrestleMania 42, it could be WrestleMania 45, come to it. Come, and if there's not something that you're like, ah,

No, I get it. I actually feel like, I mean, look, I've said reckless things in my life, but I do feel like I already know that I would have a good time. I think I experienced the same thing when I went to NASCAR. Oh, yeah. I was like, I want to go to fucking NASCAR. And I went to NASCAR. I was like, this is amazing. Right. Yeah, I had a great time at it. And I've watched maybe not a lot of...

of matches, but like, like I said, I've watched multiple docs and like, I also get the fact that I used to think they're so different, but what I'm saying is like, when it comes to wrestling and like sports entertainment, it's really not at, at its core that different from traditional sports. In other words, you know, going to a NFL game, it's like you got into this as a kid probably. And you're watching sports,

the rules that are established and people like participating in it and you cheer or you boo and you just get, you get emotionally involved. And then in wrestling for me, it's just like, yeah, it's athletes. They're performing. And usually there's a foundation from usually from being a kid and you get an emote, you're emotionally invested. It's kind of a similar thing. When I was a kid, when I was a kid, we'd go, I think I was just about every Saturday night and,

And the noise. I remember just the noise of when someone hits the mat. Just the noise was so visceral. And the energy. You get caught up in it. Old ladies telling people the garbage. And you just get so... It's like, it really is like, I want to go so bad. I want to go to Raw. Where's Raw going to be shot? Intuit Dome. Yeah. Oh my God. In LA? Yeah.

You gotta come. Hold on. Have you been to the Inuit Dome? No. It's fucking insane. You don't even have tickets. They scan your face. Yeah, they also have the... You don't have money. They don't pay with money. You pay with your eyes. You go like this, and then it goes... What? Dude. It's in a very advanced place, so they have every seat. Where in LA is this? It's right next to all that YouTube area. Like downtown area? No, no, no, no, no.

It's by SoFi. Oh, like Carson. By all that. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Wait, what's it normally used for? Clippers. Oh, it's the Clippers place. Yeah, we saw Billy Joel play there. Every seat, you know, can measure the audio.

So we have this one moment throughout the show where when I come out, I don't know how it caught on, but there's a part of my song that everybody sings the same. It's just when the dude yells, whoa. They all yell, whoa. It's raining, man. And they pop off a bunch of pyro, but they're very excited about this. They're like, well, if you're on that show, if we format it this way, we might be able to tell who is the loudest and pinpoint them and all that. And I thought, that's a wild, insane amount of technology. You think they'll jump to go to Raw? Yeah.

For sure. Let's go. Let's bring your boys. You have two boys, right? Yeah. How old? Six and nine. Six and nine. Yeah. Yeah. My daughter's only three and a half, and I'm struggling with how to explain it to her. Because my dad didn't explain it to me. He was just like, check this shit out. Well, no. I mean, so there's a term. You'll hear people say the term kayfabe. Yeah. So he just figured it was best for me to always believe.

And, you know, for example, the four horsemen broke his arm, but they also broke his leg at one point in the cage. I remember finding a cast and he had this giant closet. And it was a big cast like I had when I broke my leg on my four wheeler, except it had hinges and it opened up. And I thought, oh, wow.

I want that cast next time. Yeah, that's a good cast. Not realizing that this was something that might have gone on for the public and might have gone off. But yeah, he never... I guess the way we put it, he raised me very old school, which I wouldn't recommend. Yeah. Because I'd meet people like Ric Flair and I'd meet these... Arne Anderson, these nefarious enemies of his and kind of have him...

like a disdain for them. Sure. Already not understanding these were your partners. Yeah. People you were making money with and selling tickets with. Wait, until which age were you? Sadly, 27. You ready? You ready? Yeah. You ready? I was 14. Before you kind of like... So there's two big... Wait, so he doesn't come down the chimney and leave stuff? Right, right. So I...

I was 14, and I think part of the reason it took so long is because I wanted the magic. Yeah, for sure. So there's two incidents. One, I'm watching DDP wrestle Hacksaw Jim Duggan. They're on this show in Daytona, and they're out in the ring earlier in the middle of the day, like 3 o'clock. And that's not something you see that often. A lot of people think wrestlers are out there practicing. You don't see that that often. But they're out there, and they're just going over stuff, and they're in the middle of this heated rivalry. Right.

I remember watching it and I thought, okay. And I'm accepting of it at this point. I go, okay, if that happens, then I'll know. And of course, DDP's in the corner. Here comes Hacksaw, big boot. I'd seen it already. I thought, oh,

That might be it. Did it emotionally affect you? No, no, because there was a prior event where the toughest man, like the toughest person in all of wrestling was this guy named Haku. I don't know if you ever heard about Haku or Flair told you any stories about Haku. Yeah, he's a big fish situation where a lot of the stories you hear are like, no way, that's true. He didn't take that cop's eyeball. And then you'll find out later, like, no, he did. He was all those things. Well, Haku slammed a wooden chair over my dad's head.

And my dad is bleeding and he's in the ring and people are crying. And he had this deep connection with the audience. They're deeply affected by it. And I was just a young kid at the time. And obviously, obviously, you know when you pick a fight, you're not winning. Yeah, yeah. But I'm of the thought, like I'm raised like, hey, we're still going to fight though. Right. I'm not saying I'm winning this fight, but we're still going to fight. And he came back to the locker room and I was sitting next to my dad. My dad's bleeding. And I remember I stood up.

I don't know what my game plan was, but I stood up and my dad swiftly knocked me back down in my seat. And then Haku, who happened to be one of the most gentle, sweetest human beings in all of wrestling, came over to my dad. He shook his hand. He kissed his hand. He helped him take his leg wraps off. My dad was a lot older at the time and just said, I love you.

And then he left. And again, I'm thinking like, well, that should have been the moment. I know clearly. And all my dad said to me was the rules are a little different back here. We can't fight back here, but out there. So he really wanted to keep you going. So he's kept. So, but in that moment I should have known like, all right, you know, but also I'll say this, your level of belief in this, I don't know if anyone tells you this, but it's adorable. Okay. Well, yeah, yeah. Well,

I wanted it to be. Yeah. You know, like I want, I wanted it to cause I grew up on it. I got into fights over it. That was a big thing in elementary school. If a kid says it's fake, tell him, Hey, it's not fake. If kids has a fake again, say, Hey, one more time. I'm warning you. If he says it's fake a third time, you punch him. And it was always punch him in the nose.

So that's terrible. That's terrible advice to give a kid. You punch a kid in the nose, you could break their nose, you could jack their face up. So multiple, hey, Cody got into another fight today. Hey, Cody got into another fight. My elementary school hated me. Hated my dad. We were like the Adams family. That was one he could have at least been like, hey. Because I remember he told me as a young kid, he said, hey, you can tell them that I'm a salesman if you want to. And I thought,

Absolutely not. No fucking way. I refuse to say you are a salesman. My dad's fucking Dusty Rhodes. What are you talking about? But now I'm in the space where she's three and a half, Liberty, my daughter, where I do want to say to her, hey, just let them know I'm a salesman. Just because I don't want her to get caught up in any of that because I've seen her watch a few things and been confused. I've always wanted to ask this, though. You mentioned Tyson and his participation, and you have people come in that are not background...

like a Mark Henry or like a Brock Lesnar or somebody, right? And so when they come in and they get what the world is and that there's a lot of... It's obviously super athletic. There's a lot of performance. And obviously, we all know that people get seriously, seriously hurt. And there's tons of people who have had serious injuries and tons of surgeries and stuff. But do you have moments with these guys where you're like, hey, don't fucking...

flip a switch and like do you have to like spend more time with someone like that who's coming from you know MMA or like Mike with boxing or do they just kind of get it out of the gate

Well, I'd rather, in my case, I'd rather you come fully. Like, bring it. Bring it. Because we can't afford it not looking good on TV. Right. We don't have time to train you up in this moment. So if you're outside coming in, swing for the fences is a big quote I always say. Really? That I afterwards would be like, regret that. Regret saying swing for the fences. Yeah. But Brock's a great example.

It's very hard for me. I'll never say wrestling is fake. The F word I get really weird about, and I don't know why, but I always say to people, hey, this reason I don't say it is because if you look at that dad and his son or the family over there, their feelings are real. So I don't need to say this is. But I can tell you, if people ever wonder how real wrestling can be, the three matches I had with Brock Lesnar,

are the most competitive. And there's a thing when you work with a guy who's a big monster. He's a monster. Where they make you earn it, is what they'll say. You're not just grabbing my leg, even though that might be the spot. You're not just hitting me with that, the Cody cutter. It's not just happening that way. You have to actually earn it.

And earn it is as close to being in a real fight as I've ever been in my life. I look back at the three matches with Brock lovingly and so proud of the body of work we put up. But also I remember...

scared is probably an appropriate term, but just that was the most aggressive. And I've been in fights and I've, I wrestled folk style, freestyle did all that. That was the most real anything had ever been for me in the ring. And I, it actually gave me a whole new education on getting, I guess, to the top of our game. What it really means is there is an element of, you're not just taking this. Thank you. This is going to be a bit of a struggle because that man is a freak athlete and there's a lot. Mark Henry, on the other hand,

Mark Henry, because he came through our developmental and trained and all that. He's a lot like the Big Show. I don't know if you've ever met Big Show Paul. They always had to be really, really gentle.

Because if they f'd you up, you can't be that guy, right? They had to be the most. And Big Show, for one. Mark is a fucking animal. Yeah, no, I mean, do you ever hear the story about him at the Strongman, Toughman? It might have been the Arnold, where he was on stage presenting. That's Mark and Show together, yeah. And there was the world's heaviest dumbbell, which it's a bit. Nobody can lift it, nobody can lift it. I don't even know how much it is. But Mark...

lifted it, which people were reacting to already, and he dropped it off the stage. And it was like this kind of calamity. He went down and picked it up and brought it back up and put it back in the thing, not even thinking...

it all worked out like as if it had been planned. Mark was genuinely the world's strongest man. They say had he even trained a little bit harder, his records would have been untouched to this day. His son has got a preliminary contract with us, Jacob. Really? Yes, Jacob. Wow. I remember when Mark was a junior Olympic lifter, and he wasn't even on a proper meal plan. And so this...

like high level coach. Yeah. I was like, what the fuck are you eating? Like, and brought him in and was like, no, no, you gotta be like, you have, you as a heavyweight need to be eating this much protein and all, and like,

Was just getting him to do that properly because he didn't have any idea. He was just raw dogging it all. So I got a good, I love Mark Henry. He's still part of this radio show called Busted Open. His son, Jacob, who is going to come up and probably Brock Lesnar us all when he does arrive. We're all looking forward to it. But I have a fun moment with Mark where I was in a tag match in Cape Girardeau at what's called the Show Me Center.

and it was a six-man, and I'm in there, and Triple H, and I think MVP are Mark's partners, but Triple H is really leading this match. The crowd wasn't great. It was one of those where the crowd wasn't great. There's daylight coming in the arena. We've never experienced that before. It's like a matinee show. Daylight's coming in the arena. And it's the only time I've ever seen it, and God bless. I learned a lot from Mark, and I hope he doesn't get mad at me for sharing this, but I watched Mark on the apron fall asleep.

I watched as we're in the middle of bumping, all this stuff. And we're the bad guys, right? We're the bad guys. And I remember watching Mark just slowly take a nap. And then he'd come back to life. He'd come back to life. And when we eventually tagged him, there was not this, we like to call it the hot tag. Could be the most exciting 15 seconds of the night. There was not this big response, not this big reaction. I remember Triple H, who's now our chief creative officer, just screaming at Mark. Like, come on, Mark.

This is the coldest tag I've ever... They're having this conversation and I just... I couldn't believe it, but we used to joke because Mark had three, six mafias sing a song. It was like, beat him up, break his neck. And we would just add terms to it like, beat him up, break his neck.

Get sweaty. Take a nap. Because I saw him do it on the apron. I never forgot it. He's great, though. Mark is great. With someone like him, though, I mean, obviously you know it intellectually, but you can also physically sense the level of strength someone like that has when you're in a match with them. With Mark, for sure. Mark was always really pro's pro. I'll say with Big Show, I felt it the most because I pissed him off one night.

And I pissed him off one night, and he did what's called the big man kick out, where you cover him, and then the guy goes flying. But he put it all behind it. And I remember I hit the rope. It didn't even look clean. So he basically shot me up a good four feet, dead, cold press, nothing underneath him. Shot me up four feet. And then I went to the corner to take the big chops, these big soup bowls, and they were overhand. And I had my chin ducked just a little bit, and he hit me here, and boom.

just lights out drooling on myself for real yeah came to pretty quick and I don't think he did that one on purpose I think that was more my this because I learned so much from Big Show but the one time he ever needed to let me know hey I'll kill you oh

He did let me know. And I was probably... I'm positive at that point. Young, green, positive I deserved it, and super helpful. Stuff actually in an odd way is like, okay, thank you. Thank you for this bizarre lesson, but yeah, thank you. Now, very few people can find employment after a neck tattoo. When did you decide to do it? Oh, I love... By the way, this is one of my favorite stories. Yeah? We're sitting there, and I said something about his neck tattoo, and he goes...

Yeah, it was a little bigger than I thought it was going to be. The logo was already the American Nightmare logo I already had. So it was never about the art. It was never about the look. And I went through this phase where I was really, I was away from W2B at the time. I was trying to really build my own brand and be my own thing. I was tired of wearing other people's logos. Like I hated going into Dick's and there's the, you know,

Rock's logo everywhere I was like I gotta I wanna make my own thing yeah and I wanna be as bold as making I'm gonna I'm going all in on my own thing so I I had this idea that I would put it on my chest

And then I saw Conor McGregor, who was just absolutely box office hit, marquee guy. He had the big lion on his chest. I was like, I can't do the chest. Then I, of course, think about The Rock, who's the biggest marquee guy and my current boss as well. And he's got the Brahma Bull. Before all the Samoan tattoos, it was just the Brahma Bull. I thought, well, I can't do the arm. That's Goldberg, too, with the barbed wire. I thought, hmm, I'll do the neck. I'll do the neck. And I did. He showed it to me.

And it was smaller. And I thought, that's perfect. It'll peek right over the collar. I'm always in suits. That's perfect. And I love this guy. He still helps. He'll dial it up and fix it every now and then when it needs to be. But I did the dumbest, most alpha toxic thing ever is I sat there in the chair and he kept giving me an out. He goes, you want to take a look?

You want to take a look? I mean, kept giving me an out. You want to take a look? And I'm like, no, I'm good. You know, I'm like gritting my teeth. I don't know who the fuck I was trying to impress. Yeah. No one there. My wife's not there. Like, I'm good, you know? And then I got up and they're filming this. They're documenting this whole thing. I got up and I saw it and I didn't say anything in the moment, but it's like a kid on Christmas who the gift was not there. You know, it's not the right Power Ranger basically. Yeah. And I thought,

well, thank you. I think the first thing I said was thank you, shook hands and then headed for the door and I had to wrestle the next night. So,

So I had a signing that morning where I wrapped it in a scarf because they wanted me to do it fresh right away or take months and let it heal. So I wrestled the next night. So I'm at this signing with a scarf around. It's all, it's coming up over the scarf. There are people clearly who know something's up. I remember Jim Ross, legendary hall of fame announcer. Yeah. He thought it wasn't real. He thought it wasn't real. I walked into the production meeting and at the time I'm reading the production meeting. I'm the, the boss at the end. I remember him. Hold up.

He couldn't believe it. He couldn't fathom that this giant thing now existed. But I tell people, I guess in the long run, it was really worth it. It's kind of rad. I mean, here's the thing. I think for your job, it's rad. And if I didn't know who you were, I'd be like, this guy did 20 years. He was a dangerous individual. Let me ask. I had...

i had like another i had two dreams growing up and this is so stupid forgive me to do time in prison for 20 years uh i wanted to be a wrestler and then uh i really want to be the governor of georgia that was like i grew up in georgia i love my state you wanted to be the guy i wanted to be the governor but hang on hang on i have plans on being the governor of florida that you could do after i met arnold schwarzenegger i was like i'm going to be the governor of florida and i and i'm i've i literally was like this is a real dream

I could be a politician. This could be real. Especially, we'd be like, you'd be governor of Georgia, I'd be governor of Florida. We'd be right next to each other. Just buddy governors, you know? Dude, this can happen. He comes up with stuff like this a lot. But my... That's inspiring, though, because if you watch the Arnold doc, I think a lot of people are like, oh...

He said he could do it. That mountaintop, that whole thing he goes into about, I see another mountain and I have to climb it. But I've thought a little bit about it later in my life, about the tattoo. And I thought, I don't know if everyone would understand that tattoo. I think at a glance, no. But once like as a, if you were running for something like governor, the thing about it is your story gets out. So you become, actually you'd become the person

who opens doors for throat tattoo people. Oh my gosh. They would be like, ever since he became governor, I got hired by a tech company and people stopped shutting the doors in our faces. Yeah, you'd be that guy. I want the state of Florida tattooed right here. Oh my gosh. Little and green. A drop, but it's the Florida outline. There is no reason you shouldn't do that today. Dude, I have a tattooed gun.

at my house. I've been tattooing people all the time. Tattoo? Tattoos. Tattoo? He does that. All you have to do is choose to say something differently, like aluminum tattoo.

Yeah, aluminum. Yeah. There it is. And then Nightmare. No, Nightmare is like... I assume that was purposeful because those guys screwed you over. No, no, no, no, no. Nightmare is how I thought it was. And now I can't change it back. Did you see American Nightmare, by the way? Yeah. The doc? Oh, so crazy. It's unbelievable.

It's unbelievable, right? So I like it. So from a true crime doc perspective, nothing annoys me more than, okay, he probably did it. And then three episodes in, they're like, yeah, he did it. I need a spin. Yeah. I need something. In American Nightmare, that doc, oh my gosh. Well. I don't want to spoil it for everybody. Let's spoil it. Fuck him. So at the end of, because I always get on this as like,

Whether or not people always argue about, is there such thing as normal? And you're like, yes, of course there is. And there's a spectrum of normal behavior if you're somebody whose girlfriend was just kidnapped. Yeah. And the way he is in that interrogation room, you're like, this is fucking completely abnormal. Sure. The way he's talking to you. So it leads you to go like, yeah, this is fucked up. He's the problem. And then episode two, when they feature the girl, her behavior. Yeah.