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In 2020, in a small California mountain town, five women disappeared. I found out what happened to all of them, except one. A woman known as Dia, whose estate is worth millions of dollars. I'm Lucy Sheriff. Over the past four years, I've spoken with Dia's family and friends, and I've discovered that everyone has a different version of events.
Hear the story on Where's Dear? Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. Voices for Justice is a podcast that uses adult language and discusses sensitive and potentially triggering topics including violence, abuse, and murder. This podcast may not be appropriate for younger audiences. All parties are innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. Some names have been changed or omitted per their request or for safety purposes.
Listener discretion is advised. My name is Sarah Turney, and this is Voices for Justice. Today, I am discussing the case of 33-year-old Nefertiri Trader from Newcastle, Delaware. A few weeks ago, I covered the case of 18-year-old Naomi Erion. Naomi was abducted from a Fernley, Nevada parking lot by a man named Troy Driver in her own vehicle.
He made her slide from the driver's seat to the passenger's seat and just took her. Unfortunately, just hours after that episode came out, Naomi's remains were found. Troy Driver is now awaiting trial for the murder of Naomi Arion. After that episode aired, one of you amazing people out there reached out to me about another case of a woman being abducted in her own vehicle from 2014.
a case that has received far less attention. That is the case of Nefertiri Trader. Not only was Nefertiri taken in her own vehicle, but there was also a witness to the abduction. Unfortunately, this witness says he couldn't be entirely sure of what he was seeing, so he didn't call the police. And Nefertiri wasn't reported missing until over 12 hours after she was taken.
This year marks eight years since Nefertiri was abducted, and her family is frustrated by the lack of answers in her case. This is the case of Nefertiri Trader.
On Denise Trader's 24th birthday, February 21, 1981, she gave birth to her first child, Nefertiri, or Neffy as they would later call her. Denise Nefertiri and her siblings all lived in Delaware. Eventually, Nefertiri would have three children of her own and settle in Newcastle, specifically in the Saddlebrook community.
newcastle is a small town off the delaware river with a population of about fifty three hundred and twenty fourteen at the time of her abduction never terry was thirty-three and her children were ages eight twelve and eighteen her oldest child had already moved out of the house leaving just her two youngest at home
She was their main caregiver. She worked in housekeeping at the nearby Christiana Hospital. But I do think it's worth noting that she was on medical leave at this time, which would lead to some confusion about where she was supposed to be when she was abducted. Nefertiri was always extremely close to her family.
at one point her cousin corey trader lived with her and her children and she spoke with her mother denise every single day by all accounts nefertiri was just trying to advance in her career focus on her family and just live her life
The last time Denise Trader spoke with her daughter was on Sunday, June 29, 2014. There was nothing odd about the conversation. They talked about Nefertiri's children, work, and the BET Awards on TV that night. They ended their conversation like they always do, with I love you. Then, on Monday, June 30, the unthinkable happened.
Around 4.30 in the morning, Nefertiri's neighbor, Joe Robinson, hears a noise that makes him look out of his window. I heard a noise. I looked out the window, and I seen a guy dragging her out of the house and took her and put her in the car. I don't know what happened. Maybe he was taken to the hospital. When I came downstairs, the car was gone. They pulled off. Nefertiri was taken from the front yard of her home by an unidentified man wearing tan shorts and a dark hooded sweatshirt.
This man forced her into her 2000 silver Acura RL and then drove away. Now, Nefertiri's two children that were living at home with her were asleep during all of this. They apparently didn't hear anything. So, when they woke up and saw that their mother wasn't home, they just assumed she went back to work. And they went to school like normal, having no idea that their mother had just been abducted.
Denise Trader called Nefertiri's cell phone several times that day, but she didn't answer or call her back. So, she too assumed that Nefertiri went back to work. But when she didn't respond after the time that she would have normally ended her shift at the hospital, Denise Trader decided it was time to go over to her daughter's house to see what was going on.
she gets there around six p m and she is terrified by what she sees first nefertieri's car is gone then when denise gets closer to the house she sees a loaf of bread sitting on the lawn but it's all smashed and looks like someone had stepped on it
then as she gets closer to the front door she sees a pack of newport cigarettes two cups of coffee and an unopened condom on the porch and next to the front door were nefertiri's sandals in their usual spot
Now, I'm not sure if her two children came home from school and saw the same thing, or if maybe they went to a friend's house, or if it's just something the family doesn't talk about to protect the kids. So I can't piece together that part of the puzzle today. But Denise Trader realizes that her daughter is missing, and from what she sees in the front yard and on the porch, it's clear to her that there was some type of struggle.
So, she calls the Newcastle County Police Department to report Nefertiri missing. Unfortunately, this is one of those cases where either authorities have very little information about what happened, or they just aren't releasing much. But here's what we know. At 4.20am, Nefertiri was captured on surveillance at the 7-11 off State Route 273 near her home.
she has seen purchasing a loaf of bread two cups of coffee and a pack of cigarettes the owner of the seven eleven told police that while nefertiri was a regular customer that they saw almost every single day she usually came in in the evening it was definitely unusual to see her so early in the morning like that
Now, you're probably wondering about those two cups of coffee. I know I was. My first thought was maybe she was meeting someone at the house that morning. Well, according to Nefertiri's cousin, Corey Trader, she would often grab two cups of coffee at the 7-Eleven, one for her and one for one of her children. So there doesn't really seem to be anything weird there.
And because the police aren't releasing much about the case, I can't tell you whether any of the items found on the lawn and the porch were tested for suspect DNA, but I really hope so.
After asking around about Nefertiri, the New Castle County Police Department finds Joe Robinson and gets his testimony about what he saw, though nothing else really comes of that either. Some people say it's suspicious that he didn't call police. Others say that's just what people do in this area. They mind their business. You will hear the police discuss this code of silence as they've called it in just a bit.
Authorities were able to track down surveillance video captured by a Verizon wireless store on North DuPont Highway after Nefertiri was taken. As is a theme in this case, they haven't released the video or much detail about the video. But we know this is the last known location of Nefertiri's car.
Something that really disturbed me when I was researching this case was that I couldn't find any information about a formal search for Nefertiri. Now, it could just be the nature of her abduction, the fact that she was taken in her own vehicle, but there didn't appear to be any search teams, there were no helicopters, no dive teams looking in the Delaware River, there was no alert sent out, and some newspaper articles labeled it as just a potential abduction.
Now, this is hard to hear, because if you remember when I covered the case of Richard Patron and Danielle Imbo, while there was no witness to confirm that they had been abducted, it's a similar situation in that the police are looking for missing people in a missing vehicle.
And in that case, they were checking footage from toll bridges, they did an aerial search of the Delaware River, they dug up fields. Like I said, this case hasn't received a ton of media coverage. But from what I could find, there just didn't seem to be a lot of urgency in finding Nefertiri. There was also just no trace of her.
There was no activity on her cell phone, her credit cards, her bank accounts. It seems like after her car was seen on surveillance driving past the Verizon wireless store, there's just nothing. However, the Newcastle County Police did ask for assistance from the FBI, and both agencies, along with Nefertiri's family, are convinced that someone out there knows what happened.
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Just go to the App Store or Google Play Store and download the free Ibotta app to start earning cash back and use code CRIME. That's I-B-O-T-T-A in the Google Play Store or App Store, and use code CRIME. 33-year-old Nefertiri Trader was abducted from her home on June 30, 2014 in Newcastle, Delaware at approximately 4.30 in the morning.
When her mother comes to check on her about twelve hours later, Nefertiri is gone, and it's clear that there was some type of struggle.
Now, they don't know for sure. None of us do. But to Nefertiri's family, it appears that she came home from her local 7-Eleven convenience store after buying a loaf of bread, a pack of cigarettes, and two cups of coffee. It appears likely that she made it to her front door, took off her sandals, possibly smoked a cigarette and took a drink of her coffee, when an unidentified male grabbed her, forced her into her vehicle, and abducted her.
Now, we don't know if this man tried to get into her home, but her family is certain that never Terry would have fought to protect her children inside. They also don't believe that the unopened condom could have been hers. It's just not something that makes sense to take with you on a casual trip to 7-Eleven for essentials like bread, coffee, and cigarettes.
It's also worth noting that Nefertiri was seen on surveillance wearing a pink sweatsuit, so it doesn't seem like she was out meeting up with people that night. It truly looks like she woke up and made a quick run to the store. There was a witness to the abduction and one surveillance video showing her car after she was abducted. But the police haven't released it. We don't know who's driving the car, or if Nefertiri is even in that video.
But again, the police, the FBI, and her family are adamant that someone saw something, or knows more than they're saying.
Now, part of this reasoning comes from the physical layout of Nefertiri's neighborhood. Just south of State Route 273 is a road called Freedom Trail. This road is the only way to get in and out of the neighborhood. It goes south and then makes a perfect rounded square. So the road itself is basically the shape of a lowercase b with houses lining the road.
There's a community park and a parking lot and the whole thing is surrounded by trees. Authorities spoke with one neighbor who says they did have a camera that pointed at the community parking lot. But the camera wasn't turned on that morning. And that's it. Or at least that's all the police are releasing. I wasn't able to find another witness who says they saw Nefertiri or her car that morning. Now, this could be in part because it was so early in the morning.
I feel like even the earliest of risers aren't up at four in the morning. It's hard. I mean, I've seen arguments that because Nefertiri's neighbor Joe Robinson heard the struggle, that other neighbors had to have heard something too. But you have to keep in mind that her children who were sleeping in the house at the time had no idea what was going on. So I just don't know.
Although Nefertiri had lived in her house for about 10 years before she was abducted, so I have no doubt that many of her neighbors were familiar with her and her car, it's possible that much of the neighborhood slept through the abduction. But obviously, that doesn't mean that no one knows what happened to Nefertiri, that no one heard about it after the fact. Authorities believe that someone knows something, they just aren't talking because of what they are calling a code of silence.
that they might be afraid to come forward out of fear that they will be hurt for being a quote, snitch. So to help incentivize the public to speak out, the New Castle County Police Department and the FBI are offering a $30,000 reward. Here is a short clip from a press conference about the case. At this time, let's introduce Colonel E.M. Sutton for some remarks.
The money is significant for someone who has information and will come forward knowing that we may be able to hold on our hopes that we can find Nepi and bring her back to her family.
uh the fbi you know our relationship with them and their commitment to this case and our commitment to this case remains vigilant we believe that we can solve this case but we need help and we suffer as an agency like many other agencies in the united states with this code of silence
Do not come forward. It's a big mistake to tell the police anything. It's a big mistake not to tell the police something. I just spoke to the family moments ago and
Said to them, the real tragedy is not realizing when you have information that can solve this case and bring them some type of closure, the heartache that they're suffering, I think that supersedes this code of silence. We're asking for any and all help from the public, anyone that has any information, if you can lead us back to an arrest or you can just lead us back to nothing. We're glad to hand over the reward money.
When you see and speak to this family, I think you'll have some regard for what these folks are going through, missing Nepi and certainly her children, her mother. It's an absolute tragedy. And again, I believe that that supersedes any code of silence. We're begging for your help. Thank you. Authorities and Nefertiri's family have stated that they believe Nefertiri was likely taken by someone she knew. Who that person is, we obviously just don't know.
But other than this theory, or the possibility that she was taken by a stranger as a crime of opportunity, there's really only one other theory I found in my research. And this one is complicated, so stick with me here. Most of this information comes from an article from Esteban Parra and Brittany Horn from the News Journal in Wilmington, Delaware.
the title of the article is one by one nearly everyone involved in attack on reddy prince has been killed or gone missing on february twenty second twenty fourteen just four months before nefertiri went missing she was at a night club called club rebel
That night, she was drinking with a man named Ruddy, Prince. Eventually, Prince and Nefertiri go out to her car to hang out for a bit. Prince is sitting in the passenger seat with the door open. Then, all of a sudden, five or six men pull him out of the car and begin attacking him. Now, this is all according to a witness statement made by Nefertiri.
She says that at this point, the men had prints on the ground near the back of her car, so she couldn't see much. Ultimately, the only description of these men she could provide to the police was that they were black. Prince's friends and family say that he was never the same after this attack. He became extremely paranoid, and this paranoia was essentially taking over his life.
Prince believes that a $10,000 hit was placed on him and his family by his childhood best friend, a man named Rashawn Jason Bowell. The article describes a falling out between the men. Essentially, Prince testified against Bowell's brother in court. Prince says that after that, he had several run-ins with Bowell that made him fear for his safety, including that attack at Club Rebel.
There was another incident in which Bowell admits to hitting Prince with his truck. In his words, in an attempt to knock him over to prevent Prince from reaching a firearm. So, Prince says that it was several incidents like this that led to his extreme paranoia. His friends and family basically say he was just an entirely different person after that 2014 attack. Now, flash forward a few years to October 18th, 2017.
Prince is at his place of employment, Advanced Granite Solutions in Edgewood. Not long after Prince and his co-workers get to work, he asks them all to gather around him because he has something to say. Without saying another word, Prince pulls out a gun and shoots five of his co-workers, killing three of them.
After this, he fled the scene and found Rashaan Bal. Now, Prince says that Bal reached for his gun first. But ultimately, Prince shoots Bal five times. And he was captured on video telling Bal to, quote, bleed out bitch, end quote. Bal did survive this attack. And Prince was apprehended later that night.
Ultimately, in 2021, Prince was given three consecutive life sentences without the possibility of parole. So how does all of this relate to Nefertiri Trader? Well, at his trial, Prince named several people that he believed were a part of a larger group of associates related to Bowell. Prince says these people were paid to attack him.
Now, authorities will not comment on this connection, but the prosecution then asks Prince if Neffy Trader was involved, and he says he has no idea, but adds that the others he named have all been shot and or killed.
Jamar Kilgo was shot and killed in February 2015. His murder remains unsolved. James Darrell Rogers was killed in his basement in July 2015. 18-year-old Tasha Mitchell was later convicted for his murder. Nathaniel Mangrum was killed in April 2018 after a shooting broke out in a lounge near Wilmington. In that same shooting, a man named Kavis Tolbert was shot but survived.
Sean Hammond was shot and killed in 2018. His murder remains unsolved. Now again, authorities will not comment on any possible connection, or explain why Nefertiri's name was brought up at Prince's trial. But this isn't something I could just overlook. Unfortunately, it's just not something I can fully explain either given the limited amount of information made public.
Is it possible that Nefertiri was abducted by one of the men who attacked Prince at Club Rebel? Maybe they thought that she might testify against them. I mean, if this group already knew that Prince was someone who would testify against his childhood best friend's brother, I could see bad people assuming his friend Nefertiri might do the same, even if she didn't tell police much on the night of the attack.
Again, it's entirely possible that Nefertiri was taken as a crime of opportunity, but we know that statistics lean towards her being taken by someone she knew, and the police and her family have said that they suspect as much as well.
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Nefertiri Trader's friends and family are left stunned by her abduction. By all accounts, Nefertiri was a kind, social person who had a lot of friends and no enemies. Her friends and family are also left extremely frustrated by the lack of information and progress in the case, including the fact that her cell phone, purse, and car have never been recovered. Denise Trader told the media, "...they haven't found anything, nothing."
Her kids want to know why nobody has found their mom yet, or why the police doesn't have anything to tell us. End quote. Like we see in a lot of these cases, Denise and Corey Trader made the decision to investigate Nefertiri's abduction themselves. Denise has kept a notebook to document everyone she speaks to, and any leads or tips that she might receive.
Here is a clip of Corey followed by Denise discussing a bit about their efforts to search for Nefertiri and to beg the public for information. Good morning, everyone. You know, I thought that I would have a lot to say, you know what I mean, to everybody. I'm feeling some type of way. I used to live with Niffy for a little while. It's kind of hard for me to even face her kids today, you know what I mean? That's what kind of pain I'm feeling.
you know as being her older cousin you know nippy always looked up to me and uh for me to just walk around them and be around them it's like i i feel some type of way man i can't bring their mom you know walk into them doors um i basically became like a stalker to my own family you know trying to find out information you know on the street level and it's hard you know because people are
They're being real quiet about it. We hear a whole bunch of nonsense and it's like we're chasing a goose. The pain is unbearable. I told my family I'm not going to shed a tear today because I'm mad. I'm mad in a way that I haven't been ever. I don't understand it myself. We need some closure to my family. We need to know if Nippy's alive. We need to know if she's gone.
It's just hard to have that lingering over your head. It's been a year. Niffy didn't miss her birthday, her kid's birthdays, her oldest child just graduated. And that's a major accomplishment knowing that his mom is not there. We just want to have our family back. Niffy was a light of our family. Everybody gravitated towards her, even outside of our family.
So for somebody to come do this is crazy. It's real crazy. Like my daughter got to learn how to walk in her house and she will never know who Niffy really is. I'm asking for help from the public. If you have a property, you know, because I truly believe that they didn't go far with her car. If you have a property in the New Castle area, can you please search your property? You know what I'm saying? If it hasn't, if it's been vacant for a while, please check your garages.
If you know well where the areas where it's hard to reach by car, please check. If you're one of them runners, people that run, or walking animal, we just need help. We need some closure to our family. If this was your child or your family member, you wouldn't want to be here. You wouldn't want somebody to find your family member. So we're going to be appreciated to the fullest extent to please somebody step forward.
and tell me where my child is. We love her and miss her so much, and we need her back. Thank you. In 2017, Nefertiri's family had her illegally declared dead in an effort to move the case forward. The FBI commissioned electronic billboards all along the I-95 highway, from Maryland to Connecticut, but unfortunately, these efforts haven't produced the desired results.
Denise Trader took to making bracelets for her daughter, a skill that Nefertiri taught her before she was taken. She used to sell them for $10 each in hopes of adding to the reward fund. But as far as I could find, she isn't selling them any longer. You can see the toll this has taken on Denise and Nefertiri's entire family. She has left a huge hole in their lives.
In 2017, Nefertiri's family held a vigil for her on her 35th birthday, which, as you might remember, is also Denise's birthday. It was a small gathering where they sang, said prayers, and released balloons. This vigil was captured by journalist Claudia Rivero and uploaded to her YouTube page. Here is a small clip from that vigil.
And I thank you for joining us all together here. And I ask that you just please bring my sister home. I didn't want to come today because I didn't want to do this. But I'm glad I did come because I needed to. I try not to talk about it. But Father God, I just ask you that you just please help me to be strong.
And just be with my sister and bring her home real soon. Amen. Amen. It's closer to her birthday, and to let them know, you know, let people know that she's not forgot about, the situation's not dead, and that we just keep her hope alive. On Christ the Son, where on earth we stand. I'm praying for the guy that took Niffy, and I hope and pray that God softens his heart.
He will not be content with himself until he does release her. And Father, we remain faithful to pray for law enforcement, Father, for all those in the trenches, Lord God, that worked diligently to solve the case, Lord God. I would like to thank everybody that came. And with that being said...
Let the balloons go. Let the balloons go, but we're not letting nothing go. We remain faithful to believe the Lord. Yes, Lord. Yeah. In the name of Jesus. Yes, God. On Christ the solid rock we stand, all other ground.
That brings me right to our call to action. This is a short episode because there is limited information out there about the abduction of Nefertiri Trader. Her family remains hopeful that she is still alive, being held captive against her will somewhere. No matter what you believe, her case needs media attention.
Her case needs new, fresh leads. So please share Nefertiri's case. And please go show her family some love on her Facebook page. It's titled, Neffy Trader, Missing Delaware Woman. I can tell you that a little online encouragement goes a long way. Let's let them know that we haven't and won't forget about Nefertiri.
33-year-old Nefertiri Trader was taken from the front yard of her home in Newcastle, Delaware on June 30, 2014. She was forced into her 2000 silver Acura RL. With Delaware License Plate 404893, her vehicle has not yet been recovered.
Nefertiri is a black female with brown hair and brown eyes. She is 5'6 and weighed approximately 125 pounds when she was abducted. It's possible she was wearing a pink sweatsuit. She does have a scar on her left leg.
Her abductor has only been described as a male, wearing tan shorts and a dark hooded sweatshirt. Anyone with information is urged to contact their local FBI office. You can also submit a tip anonymously online at tips.fbi.gov. But as always, thank you, I love you, and I'll talk to you next time.
Voices for Justice is hosted and produced by me, Sarah Turney. For more information about the podcast, to suggest a case, to see resources used for this episode, and to find out more about how to help the cases I discuss, visit VoicesForJusticePodcast.com. And if you enjoyed this episode, please take a moment to rate and review the show in your podcast player.
It really does help more people find the podcast and these cases in need of justice. Welcome to the Voices for Justice secret after show. This was such a short episode, but I knew I really wanted to cover it because she just didn't get a lot of attention. She's still not getting a lot of attention. It's just so sad when there's not a lot of information out there.
I really hope that the police are doing more behind the scenes than they're releasing. I wish I had more to include in this after show about Nefertiri and of course the episode in general, but there was really not a lot out there. So let's get to updates.
I do want to let you know that the non-profit I'm on the board of, Season of Justice, is holding an event fundraiser. It's actually pretty cute. It's a photo contest for animals. And Voices for Justice is sponsoring the Best Smile category. So if you have an animal that you love, please head over to the Season of Justice Instagram account and you can see some of the submissions. It tells you all about how to enter the contest. It's a really cute contest and it's for a good cause.
So yeah, just a small update there. You guys know I always like to tell you where the money from this podcast goes. And of course, if you haven't heard of Season of Justice, all of that funding is for families and law enforcement to help in cold cases. We basically help provide funding for things like DNA testing and billboards for families and a ton more that I won't go into here.
But yeah, as always, if you're looking for a good nonprofit, hop over to Season of Justice and check it out. Obviously, it's something very close to my heart. Now, I do have more updates, probably the most updates I've ever had in an after show. I do want to let you guys know that merch is on the way. I know I teased merch back in February and I really thought that it was ready to go, but then I got some samples that were like not it. Um,
I didn't like them, they weren't good quality, and so I've been working back and forth to fix that because I don't want to put anything in your hands that
isn't good quality and isn't going to hold up because I respect your time. I respect your money and I'm not going to do that. But after months of laboring over this merch, because you guys, I'm not a graphic designer. I am not somebody who designs merch. I am someone who cares. I'm an advocate, right? So I don't know anything about graphic designer merch, but I'm learning and I learned a lot during this process. And I really think that you guys are going to like what I put together.
So yeah, hopefully you could hear that. I know that I'm mumbling a lot, but that's because I'm so excited and have a million things to do. But yeah, so check out merch. It is coming soon. The next update I have for you guys is CrimeCon.
So a few weeks ago now, I think, I did let you guys know that I will be at CrimeCon. I'll be on Podcast Row for Voices for Justice. It's always a good time there at CrimeCon, so if you are going to be there, please come hang out. But at that time, I told you that I wasn't sure if I would have anything else going on. I joined really last minute, you guys, because of the trial and everything. So I had no idea if we were going to be able to pull together anything last minute for this show. So I'm going to be doing a little bit of a
And, um, it hasn't been released just yet, so I can't really say anything, but all I can say is that if you go to their website, I am listed as a speaker. So yeah, I don't know, maybe, maybe check for an update coming out soon. Now, while we're on the topic of events, I do want to bring your attention to another true crime festival. This is called True Crime Podcast Festival. It will be August 26th through 28th in Dallas, Texas this year.
Now, because my entire life is on hold for this trial, I have no idea if I can attend. But I have attended in the past. It was actually the first day I became a podcaster. It was the first day I hit publish, I think, on the trailer for Voices for Justice. I attended the festival and I was a speaker. I was on a panel about ethics and true crime. Imagine that.
But yeah, I was there with Tim and Lance from Crawl Space. I was with Laura Norton from the Fall Line and Patrick Hines moderated it. It was a great panel and it's a great event. This isn't sponsored in any way. Like I said, I don't even know if I'm attending, but I just wanted to bring some awareness to it. If you are in the Dallas, Texas area, or if you're just looking for another true crime event to attend, definitely check them out. I'm like so out of breath, you guys.
It's called True Crime Podcast Festival, and you can find them at truecrimepodcastfestival.com. One last note here was I wanted to tell you guys that I tried something different today. So I have been like, and again, I'm like so out of breath right now because I talk a million miles a minute in real life, and this is just me, but I'm so out of breath today.
I tried something new today when I was recording. So I actually stood up during recording because I got a whole lot of comments about how my voice has been different lately. And I think it's because of me having COVID a few, I guess, months now, a few months back. Like my lung capacity and my breathing has just not gotten back to normal. Obviously, I'm like dying right now.
But, uh, so basically I'm, I'm trying to stand up because I feel like when I'm sitting down, it's almost like smushing my lungs. Now don't come for me. I'm not a medical professional and that could be totally invalid, but that's how I feel. So let me know if you noticed a difference. Um, I am continuously trying to make this audio better.
Now, if you just don't like my voice, there's nothing I can do about that. I naturally have this raspy voice. I don't try to do anything like that. I don't try to do vocal fry or I don't try to be raspy or sexy. I think somebody said I was trying to be sexy and it's like, no, I just this is unfortunately just naturally how I talk. So.
Yeah, let me know if you noticed a difference in this episode between me standing up and sitting down. Again, it's all in an effort to continuously improve the quality of this podcast, so let me know.
But, see, I just hit my microphone. And the thing is, too, you guys, when I do these podcasts, I am a talker with my hands. So a lot of the noises that I have to edit out are things like me slapping a cord on accident because I'm over here talking very loudly with my hands. So, yeah. Anyway, let me know. And as always, thank you for tolerating me talking a million miles a minute. I love you, and I'll talk to you next time.