Deep Dive: Protecting the Integrity of Girls' and Women's Sports, with Jennifer Sey, Sage Steele, and Michele Tafoya | Ep. 853
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Hey, everyone.

Welcome to the Megyn Kelly show and today's deep dive special. The three ladies on this program have been on before, but they are here today with an important announcement in an area, you know, I'm passionate about. And I think you are too protecting girls and women from men invading our spaces and particularly in the area of sports. It's never been more relevant as we see some of the Biden administration's title nine changes being implemented today.

Now, there are fights to stop this, and we're winning in about 21 states. But in all the rest, this stuff's about to happen, and your little girl is going to be forced to share her locker room and her sports with a little boy. It's absolutely wrong. It's disgusting. It's deeply immoral. But thanks to Joe Biden and Kamala Harris, it's happening.

Um, okay. Not only that, but as we watched the Olympics, we brought this to you earlier boxers with X, Y chromosomes reportedly fighting women in the Olympics this week. How would you like that? If you're a boxer, how would you like, if you're an X XR to fight an X wire in boxing?

Joining me today, speaking of XX and XY, Jennifer Say. She's longtime Levi's executive who got completely screwed by Levi's because she raised totally normal objections to the COVID lockdowns and children. And now she is the founder and CEO of XXXY Athletics. We'll get to that. As well as two former top sports broadcasters who have now gone independent. Sage Steele, you know her well. She's host of The Sage Steele Show. And Michelle Tafoya, host of the Michelle Tafoya Podcast.

Hi there. I'm a PBM. I'm also an insurance company. We middlemen are often owned by the same company. So, hard to tell apart.

We control what medicines you get and what you pay at the pharmacy. That's why today, more than half of every dollar spent on medicines goes to middlemen like us. Middlemen are driving medicine costs, and you don't know the half of it. Get the whole story at prma.org slash middlemen. Paid for by Pharma. Ladies, what a pleasure to have you all here at once. Thanks for coming back.

Thanks for having us. Thank you. Fun to do it all together. So nice to see everyone. I know. First of all, Michelle, what are you doing here instead of running for office in Minnesota? Well, you know what? If it weren't for that pesky husband and family, I probably would be running. But I need to stay married and this isn't the time. At least not right this moment.

Okay. Yes. Not, not now. That's a JD Vance told me when I interviewed him back in 18, not right now. Okay. We all know how that wound up. Um, okay. But we are here for something very different. So Jennifer, I short-formed your experience with Levi, but they really are assholes and everything you said came true. I mean, they were the most reasonable complaints. You were not a fire breather, but it wound up being a net good because you separated from a company that didn't appreciate you and your honesty. Now you have your own company.

at this XXXY. And that's the, those are some of the clothes that we see you and Michelle wearing. I've got some too. I love them. And, um, you're doing something else though. This isn't about like brand promotion. This is about trying to actually give girls who don't want to compete in these games and sports, a meaningful option for getting out. Can you explain?

Yeah. I want to point out also Sage is wearing our performance, one of our performance tops. So she's still being fly and XXXY as well. With all due respect to you, Jennifer, Sage could literally make anything look good.

I mean, not true, but I love you. That's true. Lucky for us. She'll look at anything we send. Yeah, so we launched the brand four months ago. It's just four months, literally. It's making quite the impact, I think. Our presence is sort of bigger than our age, if you will. And what we wanted to do from the beginning, I mean, I should say we're the only athletic brand that's standing up for the protection of women's sports and spaces. You know, I looked around.

at Nike and Lulu and all these other brands and they claim to champion women and they do no such thing. I mean, Nike treats women with astonishing disregard. I won't go into all the examples, but there are many, many of them, employees, athletes, et cetera,

And so we want to put our money where our mouth is. When we say that, you know, we're here to stand up for women's sports and spaces, we have this idea. A friend of mine actually called me, a friend from my COVID dissenting days. His name is Eric Hartman. He said, I have this great idea. Why don't you do a scholarship fund that can encourage and inspire

inspire young women who are currently competing to stand up and to push back or to stand down and refuse to compete, which is what I wish these female boxers would do because, you know, we shouldn't have to watch them get the crap kicked out of them. It's just totally crazy and unfair. So today on the day that this

Title IX rewrite is meant to go into effect. We're launching the XXXY Athletics Fund. And Sage and Michelle, as well as Riley Gaines and Carrie Lucas from IWF, we're all the advisory council. So we decide who gets the funds. But hopefully, you know, it is designed to take the sting out, the potential monetary cancellation when these girls speak up. Because we've heard from people like Riley and from Paula Scanlon, for instance, that when they stood up, they were threatened financially.

with swimming against scholarship. Yeah, sorry. It's exactly. I mean, Paula spoke up for a year while she was still swimming with Leah Thomas at university of Pennsylvania. And she was told to seek therapy. She was threatened that she would never get another job if she did this. And so, you know, the threats are out there and we want to make it easier. We want to normalize standing up for women and girls. We've all,

all fought too hard and too long. And I think the difference maker is going to be when the actual athletes who are currently competing stand up and push back. It's great that folks like me and Sage and Michelle are doing it, but change happens when the athletes with skin in the game right now say no more.

And you guys know what you're talking about. Just as a reminder for the audience, Jennifer is literally a national champion gymnast. Michelle was a storied sports reporter for many, many years with NBC and I think ABC before that and Sage at ESPN and also a long history of athletic success. So you know what you're talking about. Unlike yours truly, I follow the issue, but I am not athletic. I mean, it's really kind of sad. I don't believe it. I don't believe it.

I'm going to show you some videotapes and take that back, but it's fun. I appreciate it from afar and what you guys are doing, but let me ask you this. How will it work? Like, how do you decide like the girl who's sitting there? Let's, let's take Paula Scanlon. She's back at UPenn and Leah Thomas is, you know, actually Will Thomas swimming next to her as Leah six foot three and so on. How does she think about this scholarship?

I'm going to cite someone like Peyton McNabb, who I know you know as well. I think she's been on the show, Megan. For those that don't know, Peyton McNabb is a volleyball player, high school volleyball player, injured by a male athlete who spiked the ball at her foot.

She suffered a severe head and neck injury, brain bleed. She still suffers from cognitive challenges and partial paralysis. And she was unable to pursue the scholarship that she deserved in softball, which was actually her sport that she was the best at. And she struggles to this day to complete her classes. She is in community college. She cannot play sports anymore.

And it's a real shame. I would love to consider Peyton as one of our first awardees. This is a woman that deserved that scholarship and she's been so brave and courageous in speaking out.

And an award like this can really help to offset the challenge of paying for school, et cetera. So it's something like that. The advisory council will meet quarterly and we'll decide. Right now, the fund is funded by portion of proceeds from all sales of XXXY. Myself, I personally put in money as have the other investors and employees. This is how much it means to us.

And this panel of women who, you're right, they know sports and they are brave and bold and not afraid to speak out. And we'll choose the awards each on a quarterly basis. As we grow the fund and have more money, we hope to give even more awards. And people can nominate people

others, because I'm sure there's so many young women we haven't even heard about. You know, we've heard about the West Virginia shot putters and we've heard about Peyton, but I think there's probably so many more out there who are challenging that we just haven't heard of. So we want to give real folks the chance to nominate as well. How do they help? How do people listening to this right now help out and donate if they want to?

Well, you can go to our website launch just today, xx-xyathletics.org. You can also get there from our commercial site, which is .com. And there'll be a form to fill in to nominate deserving young women. That's a great idea. I love to just incentivize them. Say it again? Yeah.

Oh, regular folks can also give, but we want it to be business led. We want to, you know, the best way to give is to, you know, support the brand and buy stuff because a portion of proceeds from every purchase will go to the fund. So you can all, but you can also give to the fund as a, as a regular person. And there's a form there to fill out as well.

I mean, I got to get this. I got to get more of this gear and put it on my children. I'll tell you what, after we went to the RNC, they were handing out those cowboy hats that lit up and they read MAGA American on them. And my little 10 year old now 11 wore his print to his little pickleball tournament. I was like, you go, Fetcher. He goes, I got to represent. So what I got to get is like the kids in the MAGA American hat with the team women shirts. And I'm just going to gear them up so we can send our, the right messaging about what we do.

believe in and we need it now more than ever. Can we talk about what's happening with title nine? This is the day that monstrosity gets unleashed on not just college age women, but little girls coast to coast sage. We've won this by this battle at lower courts since Joe Biden and Kamala Harris shoved it down our throats through the title nine revisions in April because lawyers

brought lawsuits in various states and said, this is insane. We have to protect girls and women, but only 21, you know, more than half of the states did nothing. And the little girls in those states are about to have to share their locker rooms and their sports with boys, uh, at, at every level. I mean, from K through college. So where, what do you make of how this battle is unfolding?

First of all, I think I continue to get more disgusted and I didn't think that that was possible. I do want to thank you, Megan, for being one of the few who is out there and continuing to push hard on this. And I am in awe of

Jennifer and her strength and every aspect of her professional and personal life and Michelle who Michelle knows forever. I've been, I've looked up to Michelle for years because of how she's done her job. And now all of them to have the courage, including you, the courage to continue to push on this. It's so interesting because I was on Thursday, I was in West Palm beach and Donald Trump was speaking. There was a turning point USA faith summit.

And that's one of the things he said during his speech was that this will not be allowed. I will make sure that girls don't have to compete against boys. Women don't have to compete against men. And the roar in the crowd was deafening for many topics, but especially that one.

I guess that gives me hope and a reminder to everybody, the cliche that elections have consequences, and this is a really big one. I will tell you this also, being at that summit, being in airports and hotels constantly now around the country, and I know everybody on this panel is,

that's the one thing that people come up to me and say oh my gosh thank you which I'm just talking I'm just saying stating the obvious I thought but continuing to push on it and they say please please don't stop because I'm concerned for my niece it isn't sometimes just our daughter I told you this Megan before my girls their competitive days are long over this isn't about me or my kids it's

about you and your kids and everybody else. So I can just say from being out that this is such an important topic for millions and millions of people. And we're seeing the dangers, of course, what we talked about with the volleyball player of North Carolina. We're seeing a lot of questions right now across the pond in Paris and boxing, et cetera. This isn't going to go away. And I just know that if we get quiet now, we too will. And I don't mean this

I guess I could mean this literally and figuratively, but blood on our hands from the potential of what has happened, of course, in the past and what could continue to happen. I feel like I have no choice but to continue to speak up. And especially, Michelle, you and I have done so much work on this through the years with women and pushing women in sports and more highlights. And let's focus on the WNBA. Let's focus on women and fantasy football and those numbers and how much women love sports and the silence in our industry today.

It's still deafening to me and maddening. It is. And Megan, you pointed out the boxing in the Olympics. Years ago, when this was a very, very small sort of fringe issue, I remember people saying, this is not a big deal. This is so rare. Come on. This is not like it's widespread. It is now in the Olympic Games in one of the most devastating events

devastatingly violent sports, boxing. So to suggest that this is now a fringe thing, no, it's not. We see constantly cyclists. I talked to a skateboarder yesterday who I interviewed on my podcast.

They are losing their positions on the podiums. They're losing dollars. They are losing sponsorships. And you know what else they're losing? They're losing their spirit and their faith in humanity. That, wait a minute, I thought we had girls divisions, women's divisions for...

We do. I remember when Title IX passed, I was a little girl. My dad said to me, you are going to have opportunities my sisters never had, your mom never had. And I believe that people like Sage and I were able to carve out careers in sports where

Title IX was at the root of that. Now we could play, now we could participate. And that made us more, I guess, legitimate as commentators. But it's so this is no longer fringe. And I just keep waking up every day and go, what the hell are we doing?

Well, you think about the Olympics underway right now. And as I mentioned, Jennifer, you were a world-class athlete in gymnastics. And we just won USA, Team USA won gold. And you think that's great. All these people cheering on Team USA. Yeah. I mean, where are you?

to stand up to stop boys who would crush these girls in nine out of 10 events. I don't know, maybe not the balance beam. I'm not sure, but in most of these events to speak up for their safety and their fairness.

You know what, Megan? I used to think women's gymnastics was safe from this, but I've found a little rabbit hole on Instagram where there's males doing women's gymnastics, and they're competing in the NAIA, although they're the only governing body that actually made the correct rule, which is women's sports needs to be for biological females only. So I actually think because of the way the sport has changed, gymnastics is so much about power and strength,

and the extreme difficulty. And it's much less about grace and flexibility than it used to be. I actually think what men would crush in women's gymnastics too, unfortunately. And they have their own gymnastics. Do your own gymnastics and leave us alone. They have their own boxing. They have their own everything. Leave us. They have their own everything.

It's so astonishingly retrograde, Megan, that these women are being told, these girls and women are being told to sit down and shut up and take the punch like a man or a woman. And don't complain because to be nice, you need to let this guy beat the crap out of you. Well, no, we're not.

doing that. And, you know, 70% of Americans agree with us. I actually think it's probably higher than that. That's the latest Gallup anonymous poll. I think people are even afraid to say they're on our side on this issue when they are anonymous because you just, you do get buried for it. I mean, the voicemails I get, how people get my number, I don't know, just threatening, horrible. And for all the standing up I've done in my life, this is for sure a

well, I don't know, COVID was pretty bad, but this one's really, really bad in terms of the dragging you get. But I will tell you this, every time I wear this t-shirt to the soccer game on the weekend, and I have a seven-year-old daughter, every person to the person leans in and they say, I agree with you. Yeah. I love your shirt. I love your shirt. They say it out loud. They shouldn't have to whisper. They shouldn't have to whisper. Right.

Can I point out real quick also what's happened with the Olympics and where we are now? Because we say, okay, I believe, and actually numbers show 70 to 80% of Americans, I mean, this isn't even really divided along political lines, agree with us and what we're saying. And girls, women should not have to compete against boys or men, period. Yeah.

At the Olympics, there has been some progress since the last Olympics in Tokyo. And so now, and Jennifer, you'll get the terminology perfect for me, but 12 years old, is that the line where then based on hormone therapy, or if you've begun to transition before 12, anything after 12, it's a no, but they're leaving it up to the state, to the states, to the sports in particular to make the rules.

I'm trying to remember which sport it is, that one has a female category and one has an open category. To me, that is the solution. What I wish is that the IOC would have the balls to just make that the rule for all sports, period, and not leave it up to the separate sports, what we're seeing right now in boxing. So, again, I want to emphasize that Jennifer's idea behind this whole thing, this is not about women.

discriminating against transgender people because I absolutely believe there is a place, I want everybody to compete in sports. Sports is the one unifier we have on this planet where for a couple of hours on a football Sunday, we all come together and race and religion and politics and socioeconomic status don't matter. We're dividing it, we're making it worse by doing that. They belong in this too, not with women. You have a women category and you have an open category and you're done with it and women are safe.

But can I just say, I think you're right and you're definitely a nicer person than I am. But I think it is also true that there is an unhealthy proportion of menopause

men posing as women who want access to little girls and women's spaces so they can get off. Yes, there's a sick portion that wants to just be a predator and sexually assault them. But there's, I mean, within the trans community, there's a disturbing number who are autogonophiles who they are dressing like women because it's a sexual fetish for them. We believe based on his social media postings, that's what Leah Thomas is. And, um,

it, I don't want my daughter changing next to that person. I don't want her exposed to that person while he's getting off because he's wearing a woman's bathing suit. Like there really is a sick level of perversion that we need to be on guard for. And I'm, this is a weird turn, but I do, I've been meaning to get to this story. We just saw something in connection with the biggest show on earth. It's not the

You guys see what happened with Mr. Beast? Oh yeah. Yeah. I mean, we all, like if you have kids, you've seen Mr. Beast. It's like, you know, he's got 300 million followers and it's not Mr. Beast himself, but his right-hand man, this guy, Chris, who's friends with, you know, Mr. Beast, I think is 26 or 27 years old, but they, they were knuckleheads who started putting a program on YouTube together at first and

And then this guy, Chris transitioned to female, which is not possible. And, uh, started going by Ava said he was a woman. And a lot of us spoke out and said, I don't want this on my child's show. The reason Mr. B's got so famous because it appeals to children and it's kind of fun. And,

And we were told, oh, stop, stop, stop. You're being transformed. Well, you know what? Mr. Beast just was forced to separate from Chris slash Ava because according to Mr. Beast, I'm just looking at his statement. He's become aware of serious allegations of Ava Tyson's behavior online. He's Mr. Beast disgusted, opposed to such unacceptable acts.

He's hiring an independent third party to conduct a thorough investigation to ensure that he has all the facts. That said, I've seen enough online and taken immediate action to remove him, Ava, from the company, my channel, and any association. I don't condone or support any of the inappropriate actions. I'll allow the investigators a necessary time. And he's accused, this Chris Tyson, though denies it, of engaging in online grooming of a 13-year-old boy. It's just...

There are all sorts of reasons, Michelle, why we don't want men having access to our little girls. Absolutely. They're trying to normalize this too, Megan, by, by calling normal people like us out for being transphobes or homophobes and scaring us into submission and scaring us by calling us names into shutting up. It's like this term maps, minor attractive persons. Suddenly, if you're a pedophile, you're just a map. You're,

Hey, there's room for minor attractive persons at the table. Come on now. Be just another fetish kind. Yeah. Be inclusive. Why can't you just be inclusive? So this is what this is getting us. This this normalization that is being foisted on us, this idea that you're the problem. If you if you think within these pearl clutching lanes of that, you know, that you don't want a trans person changing in the locker room with your daughters.

It's this foisting of the normalization. That's all I can call it. And it's not just in this arena. It's in a lot of arenas. We're seeing censorship in a lot of arenas. We're seeing memory holing of certain politicians' records so that we kind of forget what reality is. This is gaslighting. Minor attracted persons are pedophiles. You don't want them around your children, period, the end.

And anybody who makes that argument would be a non-parent. I mean, I'm sorry, but like, would you say, okay, would you want your child to hang, hang out with a pedophile with it, with a map? No, no, no sane person would say yes to that. You know, all of this brings me to the political point. I'll give this one to you, Sage, which is I've been going insane. I have been pulling out my fake hair.

over the nonsense we are spending our time on J.D. Vance saying, and if you look at the context of his remarks, and I have many times,

He's defending the family. It was a defensive comment on people who are shaming people for having children, saying they suck, they're annoying, they're bad for the environment. And his response to that, if you go back and look at how it unfolded, was to say, no, it's great to have children. Children are super important and we don't want to be lectured to by childless cat ladies. They're obsessing over this on the Democrat ticket and trying to make him look like a misogynist.

That is the party that is chopping off the breasts of 14-year-olds, that is in favor of that, that wants to give a green light to it, that wants more Peyton McNabs to get injured by volleyball players who are male, that wants more female boxers to get punched in the face by men. I can't believe that we're allowing this narrative to dominate the airwaves now for eight, nine days, but we are.

Because they're grasping at straws right now, knowing, you know, ever since basically the debate on June 27th and then the attempted assassination of Donald Trump and everybody's paying attention to the numbers. What can we find that will get the people who just focus on low hanging fruit to say, look, this is how anti-woman, anti-everything J.D. Vance is.

The problem is that, of course, for years and years now, they've got the mainstream media behind them and then a bunch of lazy people throughout this country who aren't willing to go do their research. Because guess what? Context matters. And what you just explained for the umpteenth time about J.D. Vance's comments and the why behind them, the entire conversation, that matters. But no one gets that out. One thing I'll say, and I actually spoke about this with Laura Trump in my interview with her on my show, is that

The Democrats have been so much better than Republicans for decades now with messaging, with how they run their campaign. And then when you've got the power of the mainstream media behind you, it's such an uphill battle. I go back to 2008 and Barack Obama and hope and change and it was pretty. And what did he do? He went deep into Facebook, right? And he got to the younger generation to believe based on what? Based on nothing and a slogan.

They've always been so good at it. They got the media behind them as well. That's why I loved your tweet when you came out and said, oh, okay, you're going to focus on this out of context comment and ignore the fact that they're allowing men to look at little girls in locker rooms and to chop off body parts. And look what Gavin Newsom is doing in the state of California. And so we have to continue to be on the offensive. Yes. And ruining them. We have to be on the offensive and continue to push this information out with you. It's so hard. It's so hard.

Because you can't, right? Like, look at you. I love that you're here. I love that all three of you are here. But you know as well as I do that if you were launching a scholarship that would help trans kids find a way into girls' athletics over those evil Republicans' bans, you'd be featured on the Today Show. Yes, exactly. That's right.

And Megan, I mean, we've been the brand, you know, before launching the fund in the last two months, we've been banned overtly or shadow banned aggressively from every social media platform. We were kicked off TikTok for an ad that encourages girls and women to stand up for themselves. That's big. Yeah, that is that's hate speech in today's effed up world. That's hate speech. And so you're right. I mean, I think I'm

the only person right now on this panel that actually spent more than three decades as a Democrat. Don't laugh at me. I did. And so I understand the mindset of,

But, you know, for me, it was what it was COVID that just blew the doors off. And then I just started to question everything. I was like, they're lying about everything when it came to COVID. No, not everybody is at equal risk. No, children are not at risk. Children are not super spreaders. We're ruining their lives.

for nothing. And that's exactly what we've learned to be the case. But you can't sort of come to that realization and then not question everything. And of course, we saw during COVID, the media was doing the bidding of public health, which is democratic in nature, or in terms of its alignment with the

and of the Democratic Party. It was just, they were printing Democratic Party press, you know, PR talking points as if it was news. Where was the journalism? Where was the interrogating of these issues? And so it was at that point that I started to question everything. It just felt like such a trespass of their stated values.

And, you know, now we have this issue, which is ridiculous. And I think it lights people up the way that it does. You know, Sage mentioned the roaring crowds at the turning point conference around this issue when Trump spoke about it, because it's such a fundamental violation of what we know to be true. I can't really think of another issue that is so obvious. We're being told not to believe that men and women are different. And all that stuff you thought and you knew since the beginning of time, that's hogwash.

you know, the real science says you are the sex you say you are. Well, bullshit. That's ridiculous. It's not true. And so I think that's why it's so much bigger than this issue. I mean, this issue I really care about, but it really is for me about the fight for truth. Yeah. I'm going to take that ad. I'm going to drop it into this episode right here for free. I want everybody to see it. If you think girls and women's equality matter,

Stand up. If girls and women's sports matter, and you want your daughters to have the same opportunity you had, stand up. If you know that it isn't fair or safe to allow males to compete in girls sports, because it's, well, obvious, stand up. Don't be cowed by people who call you a bigot.

You're not a bigot. Don't let men tell us how to be good girls. Don't let others tell you you just need to be quiet. Sit down. Be nice. It's not nice to further a lie. It's not mean to believe in women's equality. We deserve our own sports, privacy, fairness, safety. We deserve a chance to compete and win. So don't be nice. Don't be careful. Be honest. Be brave. Fight for women.

We've come too far to give up now. And if you agree with that, stand up and stand with us. Go ahead, Michelle. I'll give you the last word. I was just going to say my 15 year old daughter had a doctor's appointment the other day. So they ask you to pre register online, you know, fill out the forms and you get to a big form about gender identity. How does your child identify? There was a sex assigned at birth and

you know, ask for pronouns. Sex is not assigned at birth. It's a biological fact at birth. And the fact that this is now all of the pronouns and the gender ideology is permeating medicine, academia. It is everywhere. And like you said, you feel like

Megan, I'm so glad to know you're tearing your hair out too, 'cause I am every single day. And it's over this issue and many like it. It's as though we're living in some upside down universe

And I just want to I just want to back up right again. And that doesn't mean going backwards. We're still speaking. Thank you. And we have we have Elon Musk on our side now, too. Thank God. He's out there standing up and preaching. And so I don't know where we'd be without him. And who knew we'd ever say that? So I think we just have to realize they're there and we just have to keep helping women and men find courage to speak this truth.

That's absolutely right. I will say, Michelle, we brought our 14 year old, 13 year old to their for their annual physicals. And sure enough, they wanted to speak with them privately without mom and dad. You know, that could be about sexual conduct. It could be about trans stuff. Usually it's about the trans stuff. And Doug and I said, no, no, you will not speak with our children without us. They're not secrets between our kids and adults, period. You guys are the best. Come back. Let's make it a regular.

Love it. Thank you, Michelle. Good luck with it. All right. And listen, everybody, it's XX-XYathletics.org. Go there, help out just to give a middle finger to the man. And by that, I mean, Meta, Facebook, everybody who's censoring Jen and her company and this effort, XX-XYathletics.org. Check it out. And thanks to all of you for joining me today. We'll see you next time.

Thanks for listening to The Megyn Kelly Show. No BS, no agenda, and no fear.

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