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Coming up on the Dr. John Deloney Show. My wife has been going through therapy for a couple years now. What are some ways that I can support her? You'll be sitting next to somebody who's going to look very similar, but who may be going through a tough season as her body is metabolizing what happened in the past. Do your best to not take things personally, and you're also allowed to have feelings too. Hey, what up, what up, what up, what up? This is John with the Dr. John Deloney Show. I think that was too many what ups, but I'm happy that you are with us.
talking your marriage, your mental health, your emotional health, whatever you got going on in your life.
Uh, we're going to sit with you and we're going to walk alongside you and figure out what's the next right step. If you want to be on the show, give me a buzz at 1-844-693-3291. It's 1-844-693-3291 or go to johndeloney.com slash ask. We have a few people out in the lobby. Um, it looks like, um, there's a family with a kid. Are you 18? How old are you? 16? 16.
One of my favorite things in the world is when families come and this show gets super awkward. And I just know lunch is going to be amazing with a teenage son and mom and dad. Hey, take all they brought you. So you ask all the questions possible that come up. He's like, no chance. Hey, Kelly, how was your Easter weekend? It was pretty good. We were in Alabama with my in-laws family for the weekend, but it was nice. Yeah. Yeah. Did they get, do they have electricity there now?
Just. Just. Just. Yeah. It's still a little flickery, and you still have to take the candle to the outhouse, but, you know, besides that. I saw you came into work on a horse this morning, and I was like, oh, oh, I see. But I brushed my teeth when I got back. You did. So, put some shoes on. So, we're all good now. Woo, you went dark on that, man. I always get into the hygiene just in the infrastructure. Jeez. How was yours? Um...
It was good. I got some things checked off my list that I've had on the list since I moved in. Like, I need to change those light fixtures. I need to fix up the front ports and do this. I did a lot of that this weekend. Are these all the things to get ready to possibly? No, I'm keeping it. I just, it was all the things to, yeah. Just stuff that needed to be done. I just had like a, John, you're ridiculous weekend. Like, what's the matter with you? You're a grown man.
It's really, it's my kids leaving stuff everywhere. And I'm like, guys, why don't you leave your, why didn't you pick your stuff up? And they're like, you dad, I learned it from you. Yeah. I think that's kind of the pot calling the kettle black on that one. It is. And so I'm trying to, trying to fix the kettle in the pot. You can do that. My husband, who is also not the tidiest, he always says, please take after your mother and not me. So that's how he does it. When he gets on to the kids about leaving their stuff around, he does it that way. He'll say, please take after your mother. So that way that it's not hypocritical.
So you can have that. I think you should call into the show. Thank you. I don't think anyone should take after you. Let's go to Cleveland, Ohio and talk to Brady. What's up, Brady? How we doing? Hey, Dr. John, I'm doing well. How are you? Excellent. My man, what's up?
Well, Hey, I just want to start off by saying, I really appreciate the advice you give and, and the way you provide context and not just take one vein in, in looking at a situation. So I really appreciate that. Thank you, man. But the reason I called in, so my wife has been going through therapy for a couple of years now and her therapist recommended she do something called EMDR therapy. Yeah.
And so as she's kind of getting into that and going through this more intense version of it, my question when I originally wrote in was, what are some ways that I can support her, but also just some information about therapy, things I should be aware of?
um, stressors to, to watch for. And then part B of that question is we kind of are at that timeframe where we're considering starting a family and, and, uh, thinking about that next stage in life. And so obviously adding this stress is probably not the best thing to do, um, and throw a pregnancy on top of that for her. So trying to navigate what are things we should be aware of and, uh, be cognizant of as we're looking to the future. Yeah. So, um, EMDR it's, um,
It's eye movement desensitization and reprocessing. No, I was going to say reprogramming, but you're not a computer. It's reprocessing. Eye movement desensitization and reprocessing. It's not a big deal, and it's becoming so, so common. So I don't want you to think that she's going through a major surgery or something like that. After a few years, I would guess...
They've talked about the things. Why now after a few years is she being referred to an EMDR person? So I think a piece of it is her therapist went through EMDR herself and thought it was very beneficial for her. And as they were going through it, it was kind of the next step of like, all right, you know where all of this comes from. You kind of know the why of some of your story and storylines.
starting to take the steps of wanting to change some of the way you're, you've kind of wired yourself to respond to things. Okay. So have you, have you ever, have you Googled even seen it done what it is?
I've never seen it done. I've Googled it and kind of researched it a little bit. You could see it. It could be done. I've had colleagues that do it with a pen, like with the pen they write with. I've had one colleague did it. She did it. It was like this. It was like a car antenna, like the old school ones that you had to pull up, like that were on like our grandparents' cars. I've seen it done with lights. So it basically just...
shifts your visual field back and forth and back and forth. And then there's even some auxiliary types, EMDR-ish, which is like tapping, things like that. It's exposure therapy while your body is doing something else. It's focusing on something else. And so the easiest way I could explain it is it's helping your body metabolize
Or I heard one person say it's like a subway is driving through and suddenly there's a big cinder block and the subway train has to stop. And that's like memory. And EMDR helps move the big cinder block, the big cement block off the track so that the thing can get moving again. So that the memory can make its way through the body, metabolize it, and then move on. In Deloney words, it's teaching your body you weren't okay then and you are okay now.
That's it. Right. And so I wouldn't be, I wouldn't gear up and be like, Oh, here we go. Um,
the the I'll just be there's kind of some conflicting in the literature um there's some conflicting does it work is it awesome is it the best thing ever if you read some meta analysis and said eh it's about as good as anything else and you read some that says it's amazing here I I've never had somebody go through it and say it did any damage I've never heard of that that study may exist too possibly um
But so if something is generally benign or awesome, I would say go for it, man. Go for it. And I recommend it all the time. So it's not going to be something that's going to – you're suddenly going to get a whole new human being at your house. Well, that's not true. Maybe you will. Maybe you will get a new human being. You're not going to get some terrifying experience at your home. Does that make sense?
Yeah, and I think part of this came out of, too, that when they were prepping her of what it is and things to be aware of, they kind of talked about resorting back to maybe how you responded when you first started therapy just because it brings all of this back to the surface. And so I wasn't sure if there's things to watch for or be aware of, but that's really helpful information to know that it is largely viewed as positive and not a lot of conflicting. Yeah, so imagine this. Imagine...
they will take her back through some of the memories that she had. And in a way, like what's the room like? What's the temperature of that room? What's the, where do you, do you, do you feel if she was assaulted as a kid, if she, or was abused as a kid, like where's the person now? And so, yeah, it can be very invasive. And with EMDR is, is it, it, it takes your attention, your physical attention somewhere else.
And so, yes, it can be really heavy. I've seen it to be really relieving. People leave exhausted.
But again, I have very limited, I'm not an EMDR practitioner, and so they can write it into the comments here and say other things. Anytime you go through and re-experience some of these things or really go down memory lane, if you will, or what you remember about memory lane, yeah, that can be messy and scary. But my guess is you're going to get an exhausted and or relieved and or
wife, maybe not, maybe you're going to get a, the front end of this thing and it will be scary, scary, scary. Um, here's what I would tell you. Can I walk you through a couple of things I would put in your back pocket? Yeah, absolutely. Okay. I want you over the next, um, three to six months to commit to not taking things personally.
Okay. Think of it this way. Like if she went through a real wild knee surgery, she had to have her ACL replaced and, you know, whatever, ACL replacement. And you were, she was laid up in bed for a few weeks and you were changing her bandages on her knee and you got blood on you. That wouldn't, she wouldn't do that on purpose. Does that make sense? So think of it that way.
You'll be sitting next to somebody who's going to look very similar, but who may be going through a tough season as her body is metabolizing what happened in the past, what she remembers about the past, what she thinks she remembers about the past, and the fact that she's living here now. And so do your best to not take things personally, and you're also allowed to have feelings too. What's the nature of her childhood trauma? You know what? I just made up childhood. You didn't even tell me that, so it may not be childhood. What's the nature of her trauma?
Yeah, it is. Um, and it's, so I've talked to her before. I don't want to overshare her story, you know, being here, but there's no physical abuse, but, um, just some verbal, I guess, yelling, not feeling necessarily, um, safe a hundred percent of the time growing up. Um, yeah.
My guess is there will be a, again, I'm shooting in the dark here. There's a, there's a whole other backstory, but my guess is you're, she's going to be exhausted and she's going to be relieved. Yeah. Um, and there's been a lot of that so far. Good, good, good, good. She, she already started. Yes. So she's started, she's a few weeks in, but we've had those conversations. It's going to be hard. It's going to be stressful. Um,
her trying to keep her emotions in check, but just feeling like a tidal wave of all these things coming on her. So being extra supportive and not taking it personal. So we've had those conversations. And I would steer clear of the keep things in check. I think her body's been keeping things in check her whole life. And some of this, I want her to feel it. Okay. And what she's going to want to keep in check is I always tell folks,
commit to a series of meetings. So put on the calendar every Sunday night, we're going to talk. Even if she sits down and y'all talk about budget, talk about groceries, talk about normal things. And those normal things open up pathways, avenues towards, can I tell you one thing that I remember during therapy that was said to me when I was a kid?
But you don't press and don't push, but make them regular. And sometimes there'll be no conversations. And that's where she's like, I don't really have anything to share with you. And then if you're like me, you're gonna take that personally. Oh, you can tell somebody else, but not me. I'm your husband. I love you. It's not about you right now. Right. And so just don't take it personal. We're just going to cool. Awesome. Let's go for our walk or whatever we have scheduled up here. But you're allowed to have feelings too. Somebody hurt your wife, man.
And you're going to hear things potentially you may already have. Someone said things to your wife, even though it was so many years ago. You're allowed to get really upset about that. Okay. Don't think you're weird or whatever. It's not her job to carry that for you. Right. Right. But yeah, man. And you know what you'll probably feel most of all? Powerless.
Yeah. Because you weren't there to protect her. You weren't there. You didn't do any of this stuff. And you can't wave a magic wand or turn a wrench and fix it. Right. Right. Right. And so the first couple of weeks in my am I on the right track with she's feeling exhausted and almost that sense of relief.
Yeah, absolutely. I think definitely the sense of exhaustion of just feeling overwhelmed. And to an extent, I think there's a little bit of she's done all this really hard, really good work over the last few years. And now all of this stuff is coming back up again of feeling overwhelmed by the emotions and not knowing how to process it when she's done so much work.
figuring out how to process that and it's kind of opening that wound again um so i know that's definitely a piece of it as well for her so just trying to be as supportive as possible and like you said not take it personal but do whatever i can to help her get through it because i know it's it's not easy well and that starts with that with that weekly meeting here's what i want you to ask i want y'all to get in a rhythm of asking each other how can i love you this week
Okay. And when you get you, she's gone to a few sessions. What's the best way you feel loved on your way home from one of those sessions? Like I asked my wife that a few years ago, you know, she told me turn the porch lights on.
will you turn the porch lights on in any i tend to make crazy dinner adventures and experiments that don't always work out right and she said just clean up whatever experiments you've tried and turn the porch lights on for me like when i come down our long driveway into the into the woods makes me feel safe
And I was like, oh man, I thought you wanted me to like get out a textbook and read to you. You know what I mean? Like it had, it was not even close to what I thought, but how can I, how can I make you feel loved? Can I meet you for dinner? Um, but again, let her set the stage. And, um, the last thing I would tell y'all is this, I want y'all to set up boundaries. What do I mean by that? I want y'all to commit on the front end of this. Here's a few things that are off the table.
We're going to, our relationship's probably gonna be a little bit different. We're going to have to, we're going to, I want us to start dating again because I've got a wife who for 20 years has been holding everything in and I've got a wife who is free in the wind, right? She's like a, like a, like a flower in a field now, man. She's not like this oak tree. She can be right. Just, and so you're going to date that person now because she's new.
And that's really awesome. But I want you all to set up boundaries. So what does that mean? If she tends to go grab a drink when she's stressed out, we're going to take 60 days and we're not going to drink. If she tends to just Netflix out, let's come up with another. Let's set up a series of boundaries for the behaviors that y'all know keep y'all well.
Okay. Okay. Um, gummy candy is mine. Like I just eat trash, trash, trash, trash, trash, like wildly. So, and so my wife will say, Hey, on the front end of season X,
Let's commit to eating clean on it. Perfect. Great. You see what I'm saying? But we set those boundaries up on the front end. I had a friend who went through a really, really traumatic, like one of the worst things you could imagine with his family. And him and his wife, he had enough wisdom to say, hey, on the front end of us going down, we're about to go down into the valley for years.
And we're not allowed to cheat on each other. We're not allowed to like, this doesn't give us excuse to do X, Y, and Z. And it was really powerful to see them be one of the strongest married couples I've ever met in my life on the back end of this thing. And so it's setting up some of those boundaries on the front. Um, and sex is going to look different. Intimacy might look different, who knows up or down all over the place. And so, um, be excited about dating this, this incredible woman again. And by the way, thank you for being this kind of husband who cares, right?
Yeah, appreciate that. Yeah. Most don't. They want to fix it. They want to get over it. Can we just move on from this thing? Do you know how expensive this EMDR stuff is? They just over, over. Like, man. And you're trying to figure out the best way to sit with her. Good for you. Good on you. She's still the woman you married, man. She still loves you and you still love her. It's amazing. Good on you. Thanks for the call, brother. We'll be right back. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp.
So my wife and I were meeting the other day about the back-to-school madness that is about to be on us. We've got my travel schedule, her work schedule, our daughter's new school and clothes and forms to fill out and all these online portals and my son's sports schedule and he's got to have shoes every two weeks because his feet won't stop growing and how are we going to pay for all this and on and on and on.
And when we step back and look at our schedule, it's so packed and we haven't even put in the things like exercise, date nights, counseling appointments, church and holiday trips and big home projects. And these are the things that make life worth living. And I listened to y'all. This is your life too. And here's what I've learned. When it comes to taking care of me, my family and my work, I have to begin with the things that matter most and the things that keep me well and whole so I can wade into the chaos and be sturdy and present and strong.
you too. So as you're planning your upcoming end of summer and fall plans, make sure you don't skip date nights, don't skip regular exercise, and don't skip your regular therapy appointments. Yes, therapy can be hard work, but it can also help make the rest of your life possible.
When it comes to therapy, I want you to consider calling the team at BetterHelp. BetterHelp is 100% online therapy staffed with licensed therapists. It's convenient, it's flexible, and it's suited to fit your schedule.
With a good therapist, you can learn things like positive coping skills, how to set boundaries, how to deal with all the chaos going on in your life, and how to be the best version of yourself. In this upcoming season, make sure you put on your oxygen mask first. Never skip therapy day. Call my friends at BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com slash deloney today to get 10% off your first month. That's betterhelp, H-E-L-P dot com slash deloney.
All right, we are back. Money and marriage, October 24th through 26th. There are just very, very few tickets left. In fact, it may be sold out by the time this episode airs, but it's worth checking out. Two and a half days of teaching from me and my good friend, Rachel Cruz, and built in time to practice what you're learning, how to get your finances straight, how to get your marriage straight. We talk about money, sex, all, we talk about everything.
All of it. Kids, whatever you got going on in your world, we're going to figure it out. Lots of Q&A time. You'll get direct access to me and Rachel Cruz. An amazing date night experience. Tickets start at $799 for the whole weekend, which is a steal. And there's just a few left again. So go pick them up. Go pick them up. Go to ramsaysolutions.com slash getaway. All right, let's go out to Portland, Oregon and talk to Phillip. Hey, Phillip, what's up, man?
Hey, how you doing? Partying, dude. What are you up to? I'm just in the car outside my school right now. Excited to talk to you. Are you in school or are you teaching at a school? I'm in school right now. What are you studying? Psychology, actually. That's a terrible thing to do with your life. You're going to end up like a middling podcaster if you're not careful. Yeah, yeah. Hey, we'll see. We'll see. All right, so what's up, man?
So I want to talk to you. So I proposed to my girlfriend about a week and a half ago, and she said yes. But I did this before talking to her parents. And so she talked to her mom about it. And then her mom talked. And her mom was happy and supportive. And their mom talked to her dad. And he was pretty salty, according to my mom, that I didn't talk with him. And I was wondering how I should navigate the situation. Hmm.
How old are you? I'm 21. How old is she? She's 18, turning 19 in two months. Do you still live at home? Yeah, I do. No, does she still live at home? Oh, sorry. Yeah, she does. Yep. How long have y'all been together? We've been together about nine months. Dang, dude. Tell me about this engagement, man. That's really young and really quick.
Yeah, yeah. So we met a while ago on Tinder, actually. Oh, that's where all love starts. Yeah, yep. And so we got really, really close after a couple of months. Yeah, per Tinder.
Yeah. Yep. Yeah. Yeah. And so, um, we got close and, um, we've been together probably four or five days of the week. She lives about 50 minutes away from my house. And, um, we're always, we're, we're together a lot. Um, and, uh, I'll go over there. She'll come over to me. Um, and, uh, we're, we just work really well together. She lets me, she supports me during school. I work a lot and I do a lot of school. Um, and, uh,
Yeah, we're really compatible. What's the rush, man?
We thought the next best step would be to get married because we've been talking about being with each other for the rest of our lives, starting a life together, and we really wanted to. We've been talking about that for the last month or two, and then we thought this would be the next best step so we can commit to each other and really build a root in each other. If you were my brother, I would tell you to slow down.
Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Um, if you were the son of one of my good friends, I would tell you to slow down. Okay. Okay. That's not why you called. You didn't call and say, Hey, is it, is it smart or not wise that I'm just turned 21 and I want to marry an 18 year old slash 19 year old out of her dad's house, ever mom and dad's house. Um, but that's not why you called me. And here's the reason I'm pushing back on you. Wisdom wise. Yeah. Um,
There is 1000% chance I have, um, you will get sideways or you will do something that your future father-in-law goes, I wouldn't have done it like that. Okay. And what, what somebody who's old enough and wise enough to marry, get married is old enough and wise enough to pick up the phone or to go in person to be like, Hey dude, I should have called you. I was totally blue this. I'm sorry. Yeah. And I can imagine this feels super, super fast. Can we go to lunch?
I want to be on the same page with you as we move forward. I understand that your daughter is the single most precious and important thing in the history of your life ever. And I want to honor that, man. Yeah. You see what I'm saying? On this side of it, you're 21. I'm in my mid-40s. On the backside of this, I have a 14-year-old.
The thought of him getting married in four years makes my head, I can't even wrap my head around it. And he'll be legal if he wants to do that. I can't stop him. Yeah. But just know on the parent side of it, it just feels like a lot. Yeah. Yeah. And that's what I've been told by a lot of, by my parents, um, that, yeah, we're young. Um, the young part's fine. There's just a maturity level. I mean, pick up the phone and call the man. Why haven't you done that?
Yeah. If you're old enough to marry his daughter, why aren't you old enough to call him and be like, dude, I should have called you. I screwed that up. My bad. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Why haven't you called her? Yeah. I will do that. I will call him. You're not answering my question. Why haven't you yet? Are you scared of him? Um, yeah. Uh, yeah, I would say that. Yeah. Yeah. Don't, um, yeah. I don't want to hear something I don't want to hear.
Bro, you're about to get married. That's the rest of your life, homie. Yeah. Yeah. You're about to merge two families. Yeah. Yep. Is anyone in your world telling you this is a great idea? Um, my mom...
So they both are families. They, her parents really do like me and my parents really like her. So my, my parents, um, are, are happy with it. Um, and her, her mom is happy with it. And, uh, her dad's still salty. I didn't tell him, but I did see him yesterday, which is, which is funny, but it was never brought up. The, the marriage to talk about it was never brought up. Um,
I bet if he brought it up, he would just spew fire and he's trying to keep the peace at an Easter function. Yeah, yeah. What I'll tell you, I hate to even say it like this because I feel silly, but it's the most honest way I could say it. The right manly thing to do is to call him and say, I would like to take you to dinner and bro, you pay.
All right. Yep. And pick somewhere nice and say, I want to marry your daughter. I did this the wrong way. I screwed this up and I want to control. I'll delete this thing. Okay. You got to see it from his eyes. He's about to get a new son. Yeah. Yeah. And if you didn't even bother to call him to say, Hey, I want to take your barely old enough to make legal decisions on her own, barely old enough to sign a contract on her own daughter and marry her. And I didn't bother to call you. Come on, man.
You know what I'm saying? That's just the wisdom and maturity. Yeah. 100%. How are you going to provide for y'all? Um, right now I'm working, uh, I'm working 35 hours a week. Uh, yeah. Awesome. Double that. Yeah, no, yeah. Double it. Yeah.
Yeah. Okay. It's like dumb and dumber. There's no jobs out here unless you do. He wants to work 40 hours a week. 35 bro. Not going to cut it. 70. Yeah. You're a newlywed 21 year old. Yup. Yeah. You keep saying, yeah, I don't think you get it, dude. No. Yeah. You're right.
No, yeah. I'm in school right now. So I'm also, yeah, I'm working. So I'm trying to juggle that. Do school and work. Yeah. I'll give you 10 hours. So you 60 hours a week plus school. When you get married, you're going to look at your sweet 18 year old wife and go, I will see you in three years. Okay.
Okay. That's you understanding the reality of the world you're stepping into. Yeah. Like, like that. We have to have more time apart because I'm working and it's cool, bro. It's like, have you, have you sat down and even done a budget? Like, like here's the math, like rent, two cell phones, two car insurances too. I mean, have you mapped all that out?
Yeah, so we've talked about money. We wanted to move out, but we haven't because we're like, we need more money, of course. And you're so in. I will say we're privileged that our parents do help us with a lot of stuff. I know, but you're about to be married. All that cuts cut off. Yeah. And if it doesn't, you should be ashamed of yourself and you should cut it off. Yeah, yep, yep.
Yeah. And yeah, we, we've sat down, tried to move out. We're like, all right, we need to work more, save more money. And right now we're working on saving a bunch of money because she works 40 hours a week at a veterinarian office. So we're trying to save as much money as we can right now. She should work 40 hours a week at a vet clinic and then go to Walmart and throw boxes until 11 PM or do a second drive Uber, whatever. I don't know what else there is to do wherever is going on in y'all's world, but
And by the way, I'm not talking about saving money for the thing, for the wedding, for the first apartment. No. I'm talking about two cell phone bills, two car insurances, renter's insurance, tuition, clothing, makeup, deodorant. Like life stuff is just freaking expensive to exist these days.
Yeah. And if you haven't written that stuff down, A, you're in no shape to get married. And B, you should do that for yourself. You're 21 years old. You should know how much it costs you to live. And by the way, when I was 21, I didn't. So I'm lecturing my former self right now. Okay. When I was 21, I didn't know what day it was either, but figure all that out, man. And you're going to get a number and you're going to realize, oh, I have to work 70 hours a week to make this thing work. I have to work.
This many, I mean, she's got to work. I got to work. And by the way, she's going to get pregnant and within nine months. And then all of a sudden you're going to be like, oh boy, now we have a kid. So just think this thing through. And to everybody listening, this is not to do with age. I started asking questions about why the rush and why he's getting married. Not because he's 21 and she's 18 going on 19. I asked because her, his future father-in-law got quote unquote salty because
and he didn't think to just pick up the phone and call that's that's what maturity would do that's what wisdom would do if i found out my father and i was mad at me i pick up the phone call him hey man what's up i just pick up the phone and or next time i saw him in person i'm like hey let me talk about this thing because i try to be a grown-up right and so if you're if if you don't know what to do about that call man i want you to pause before you decide to bring two families together through marriage
Because I want your marriage to be amazing. I want it to be the greatest adventure of your life. And I only want you to do it once. There's a lot there, my man. Hey, thanks for the call, brother. Thanks for letting me pick at you a little bit. Best of luck to you, whatever you decide. If you do go through with it, holler at me. Let me know the date. Kelly will probably show up and have an amazing gift. She has a whole fund that she saves and does things like that. And if you decide to pause for a little bit or do like a four-year engagement or something,
Let me know how that goes too. We'll be right back.
And it's this season when it's super important to make sure you double and triple down on your exercise practices, your counseling, your relationships, and your spiritual health. And if you're a person of faith or if you're just curious and you don't know anything about this faith, prayer, whatever stuff, don't let your daily prayer or your meditation practices or your questions go unanswered or by the wayside. Don't let your still time with God go.
As things ramp up and get more and more chaotic, we have to choose to slow down and focus on the things that really, really matter.
And in addition to my conversations with my friends and my personal reading and journaling time, Hallow helps me stay on point with my spiritual practices. Hallow is an app that's easy to download right to your phone and it is packed with daily prayers, lecture series, meditations, music, stories, nighttime sleep programs, and more. Hallow is the number one prayer app in the world. And it's simple, it's super high quality, and you can personalize it based on wherever you happen to be in your spiritual life.
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Go to hallo.com slash Deloney today for three free months. That's hallo, H-A-L-L-O-W dot com slash Deloney. All right, we're back. Let's go to Indianapolis and talk to Samantha. Hey, Samantha, what's up? Hey, Dr. John, how are you? I'm rocking on, dude. What are you up to?
You know, just have a lot on my mind, hence why the call. Fantastic. What happened? I got into some deep trouble with my roommate, and I really need some advice. What's the trouble? I, about four months ago, got a new roommate. We have a 10-year age difference. He's 25. I'm 35. Did you sleep with your roommate? I did. Okay.
I did. Amazing. Why did you do that? I have no idea. I'm dumb. And it was a really, really poor decision. We were both getting out of relationships right when he moved in. And I think that there was an unspoken attraction. We would always have dinner, hang out. We just...
for whatever reason, would spend hours after work talking. And I think that there was always a mutual attraction. Like a romance novel. And then one night, the fire was in the fireplace. You're actually not really wrong because it got so gloomy. It was raining outside. I was going to go on a trip and I couldn't go. Oh my gosh. You're really not that off because there was one night...
Not even a month into him moving in, we watched a movie together. We're being super flirtatious and his bathroom tub was getting fixed and he had to use my bathroom. And after the movie, we were being really flirtatious during the movie, like touching hands and flirting and blah, blah, blah. And he goes to me, what time should I come in your room to use the bathroom? And I was like, I said something and I'm going to, it's going to sound really cringe right now, but I was like, you can come and use my bathroom anytime.
anytime you want and he was like uh he got really nervous and he was like wait Samantha what are we doing can we talk about the tensions and I was like um what tension he was like you know exactly what I'm talking about are we going to do something about it can we be adults and be casual and be essentially friends with benefits who live with each other and I was like um
This is weird. We have a 10 year age gap. We both are getting out of, just got out of relationships. I don't know. And he was like, let's try it. I go along with it. We hold on. Hold on. Hold on. I was with you until you tried to sell me a, like a fresh box of dog cha-cha like, and then I just went along with whatever you're in, you're in.
So like what, like what's the deal now? So you slept with your roommate. The whole thing's weird, right? The whole thing is really weird. And everything has been on his terms. Like everything has been like, he will initiate things and like hang out and be like, let's, you know, hook up. But it's always been on his terms. And I, wait, wait, wait, why are you out? I don't understand that.
I don't understand it either. And I feel really bad about it. And now he is not dating someone else, but he's seeing someone else. Like they're not exclusive or anything. And he just pulled the plug and that's fine. But I felt like he got what he wanted and kind of tossed me aside because we're not, we're not sleeping with each other anymore. And I feel very used. And yes, yes.
You should feel used because you were. And you used him. I didn't think of it that way. You absolutely used him. And vice versa. And there's no such thing. People can, oh my gosh, you're an idiot. There's just not.
The 25, like the way the friends would, it doesn't work. It never works. It always causes chaos either in the moment, short term or downstream. Always, always. And he was really clear on the front end. And you were like, okay. You're right. Like, did you get your heart broken? Did you fall for this kid?
It's not that I fell for him. I mean, I'm not, and I lied to him, and I think I lied to myself and said that I am okay with a casual fling, and I'm not. Did you like this guy? Yeah, I mean, I can't be intimate with someone if I don't like them, and I never told him that. No, you told him the exact opposite of that. I did, yeah. And I think...
Your anger or frustration or heartbreak or whatever is misplaced. I don't think it's on him. I think it's on you. Why? Because you were hoping to get something from this 25-year-old kid. And I didn't. And you didn't. And you've done this before. Maybe not with a casual hookup, but you have gone after somebody else before to try to fill a void, and it didn't work. Fair or not fair? Fair.
Yeah, I didn't think of it that way. And I wanted to ask you if I should talk to him about how I felt or just kind of let it go. He's going to look at you and say, I laid out the ground rules of this thing. You're way more experienced than me about everything in life. You have a decade on me. Not only you initiated this.
Um, when I just simply asked you if I could use your bathroom, you turned it into some sort of heightened sexual interaction and I set the ground rules and you were like, cool. And I'm just following through the roadmap that I laid out. And you see what I'm saying? And anytime we try, anytime we try to use divorce, the act of sex from something connective, it's, I mean, it just ends and people get hurt. It just does. Yeah.
Yeah. And you, I mean, so you could talk to him. I don't, I don't know what, I don't know what that's, I don't know what telling me your feelings unless you're telling him, I really like you and I want to be exclusive with you. And Hey, we already moved in together. I mean, you know what I mean? I don't know. What do you want to tell him? I think I wanted to tell him that I felt like everything had been on his terms. I don't even know. What does that even mean? I don't know what that means.
It means that anytime a hookup was initiated, like, hey, let's hook up and have sex, whatever. It was always on his terms. And anytime I would try to even, after we had sex, after the fact, I'd be like, let's watch a movie or let's do this. He would automatically go to, I can't have sex tonight. I'm really stressed. I have a big business meeting in the morning. I can't do this. And I would automatically be like,
I'm not asking you to have sex. That's not about him. That's about you. In what way? If there was a power dynamic to where you found yourself trapped or caught or forced, then things are on their terms. If you agree to an employment arrangement where you go work for a boss and that boss says you will be here at 8 o'clock and you will leave at 5, then your workday is on their terms because there's a power differential there. Yeah.
This is just a guy who doesn't really care or was really clear at the outset. This is all this is going to be. And you were like, cool, anytime. And then you want to turn it into something else as like an unfair relationship. Right. And I guess, I guess there's a, there's another on terms with like, I've been married to the same person for more than two decades now. Yes. It can be always on my terms if I start to take advantage of her.
So that's another place where relationship could, without a power differential, right? Because we are, we're co-creating this marriage, me and my wife. And so, yeah, I could try to, I could take advantage of her kindness, of her what, fill in the blank, anything. And it can always be on my terms. But I think you're mad that you kept signing up for this thing and you kept going and you kept going and your guts knew it wasn't right and your heart knew it wasn't right and you kept doing it and you kept doing it and you kept doing it.
Yeah, I didn't think of it that way. And that's probably something I should have thought of. And I wasn't honest with him or myself. I'm way more worried about your honesty with you. Yeah. I mean, I can be very outspoken and bold with what I want. And I am a lot of the times. But sometimes like this with Eric, I...
I will be compliant and then be like, all right, well, maybe we'll see where it goes and maybe something else will develop. And I won't say anything because I don't want to off the bat come across as like wanting a relationship. And why, why, why won't you just say what you want?
I should have. Well, now it's too late and I don't even think I would want to be with a 25 year old. You were with a 25 year old, both physically and emotionally. You were with him. He didn't choose you and that broke your heart. Yeah. You were with him. You live in this, in this, like I'm bold when it, you're bold when it doesn't count. You're bold at work and it doesn't matter.
You know what I mean? Like, you can be loud and like, I get what I want at the office. Cool, man. Like, you know what I'm saying? Where it counts is looking across from somebody and saying, here's all I am. Do you love me? And when it counts, you get real quiet and say, I'll just take whatever because that's all I think I'm worth. Ooh.
Yeah. I mean, that's kind of what happened with my last relationship. I bet you could go look at a pattern because somewhere along the way, you got a message that when it comes to vulnerability, you better freaking not show any. When it comes to connection, just take what you can get because that's about all you're worth. And I'm telling you, you're worth more than that. Thank you. Yeah. I mean, I've definitely dived into this and I... I know, I know, but you keep, you can dive in all you want, but you keep doing it.
Yeah, I do for sure. I mean, that's literally what happened in my last relationship. And it got to a point where I had enough and I finally walked away, but it took me a while to get there a long time, longer than it should have. Yes. And I think you're there too. If you were my friend, like just a buddy of mine, I would say you got, it's, you got to move out or if he's really, yes. Unless you want to just see a walking example about how you let yourself down.
As he parades girlfriends in and out of there, as you spent, like, it's like a real life social media account. Why would you do that to yourself? I, I mean, outside of this, we have opposite, opposite schedules and he's not really home a lot and I'm not. So it's a really good. This is not a math problem. This is a Samantha's heart challenge. Yeah. Like I'm saying this, not in a flippant, like stitch on a pillow kind of way, but
I'm saying this like if you were standing here, I would ask you, is this okay? And hopefully you would say yes. And I'd put both my hands on the side of your face and I'd look you in the eyes and I'd tell you, you're worth so much more than this. So he didn't do anything wrong. It's pretty much. No, I didn't say that. If he was 25 years old, I would tell him who does he think he is, but he's not on the phone with me right now.
And what you try to do, this is your game, is you toggle back and forth so hard so that you don't have to sit with any discomfort. Of course he has culpability and responsibility in this. I'm not blaming him. I'm not blaming you for everything. I'm saying you started it. You're 10 years older than he is. You've got more experience than he is. You invited it. And then when it comes down to the brass tacks of consent, you went along with it every single time. And I didn't speak up for myself. That's what I'm saying. You're worth more than this person.
You're worth more than flirty hookups with a 25 year old kid who's happens to be a roommate. You're worth more than like flexing around the office, but just accepting relationships, man, it should be the opposite way around. Yeah. I I'm glad that I, I called in and called you because I didn't even think of it like that. I kind of was looking at it from the opposite end and resenting him, but not even looking at what I was allowing, um,
And by the way, if you get to where you're resenting the person that you're sharing a living space with, have him leave or you leave. Why would you live like that? Yeah. Like, listen, when you walk out of the office, the office is hard. I'm flipping about it, right? Like, we fight hard here at my office a lot. And it gets loud and people disagree and lots of opinions and ego. Okay? Yeah.
And I also love these people too. And we disagree. So, but here's the thing. My home has to be the place of peace. It has to be the one place I drop my shoulders and I can go, I've got there. And I think much of the mental health challenges in the country right now are our homes are as electric and not safe and not peaceful as our workplace, as the subway, as the traffic jam.
As the news feeds coming in our old phones in our whole world are electric. Yeah. And our homes have to be a place where we walk in and go, but I'm here now and now I'm safe. And so, dude, if you resent this kid, make a hard call and move on with your life, dude. It's not worth the roommate. It's not worth the, the shared rent, your pieces. Now what's the price of peace in your house? You're right. I, I didn't think of it that way. I'm like, I was just like, Oh, we have opposite schedules. That guy will haunt you.
Because he'll just be a visual representation of another time Sam didn't lean into her true value, her true worth. And didn't vocalize what I wanted. Right. And wouldn't vocalize what I won't accept. And if I go along with this, if I go along with it, if I go along with it, maybe. See how you're trying to reverse engineer? You're trying to work backwards to vulnerability? Yeah.
Yeah. Maybe if I do some things, if I'm a part of some things, an unbalanced relationship where someone's clearly taking advantage of me, if I go this way, maybe then I'll get that relationship that I want. And that's just not the path. No. And you're right. It's exactly what I was thinking. And I was like, I never just want to... Okay. So for me, a lot of it is like...
things will naturally happen sometimes. In relationships and jobs, sometimes the job will come or the relationship will come when you least expect it. I didn't want to go into it being like, this is exactly what it needs to be. And this is what I want. And I just was like, that's too intense. So I'm like, let's just see where it goes and let things naturally occur and progress. So that's where I think my head was at. Yeah.
I once had a buddy who was the dean of a business college, and he was meeting with me and my staff. I'd invite him to come talk to our staff, and he said something that changed my life. He said, we spend so much time planning, setting value statements, strategic plans, five-year goals, board reports, finance reports, quarterly reports for our jobs.
And he looked at that group and he said, and none of it matters. And then we go home to our kids, our wives, our husbands, our boyfriends, our girlfriends. And we just hope that happens. Or as you put it, to see where it goes. And if you're not intentional about your values, if you're not intentional about what matters to you, if you're not intentional about where you want to go and you label yourself as too intense, I reject that. You're not too intense. You're not intentional enough.
Where it's going to always go is where it's always gone. And for you, that's heartbreak. Yeah, it has. And so at least give your heart as much respect as you give your dumb job, as you gave grad school, as you gave undergrad, that level of intentionality. I'm not like that with my career. I'm like booming with my career. I know you are. I know you are. Because somewhere along the way, somebody told you that's the path to value.
You'll finally be worth something if you get that plaque on the wall. And what sucks for you is you got that plaque, a bunch. You keep getting another one and another one and another one and another one. And it never fills that gap. Why? Because wherever you go, you go with you. And you, Sam, don't think you have value. You don't think you're worth being loved. You don't think you're worth saying out loud, this is what I want and this is what I need. And I'm not going to go along with some 25-year-old who just wants to hook up. I'm not.
And I'm going to be all into this flirty, like, culture. I'm going to get all close and be like, you know, like, yeah, because I don't have the courage here. Like I do at my office. I don't have the courage here to say, this is what I believe. This is what I'm worth. And when it comes to intimacy, when it comes to romance, when it comes to building something down the line in the future with somebody, I'm going to, I'm going to draw boundaries and I'm going to have my standards. If no one's ever told you you're worth that, Sam, I'm sorry. It breaks my heart for you.
but you are. You're worth every bit of that and more. But don't go home to a place that you resent. Don't go home to a person you resent. Make your house a place of peace so that you can begin to anchor in and say, what do I believe? What do I value? Who am I going to be? And then go be that person. And who cares what some 25-year-old, 35-year-old, 45-year-old person thinks? You're worth all that. Thanks for the call. We'll be right back.
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All right, we're back. Kelly, what do we got? What did I do wrong on the internet this time? All right, here we go. If you're an adult, your parents don't get a vote about your life choices or values unless you give it to them. If you're an adult, your kids don't get a vote about your life choices or values unless you give it to them. Your boss, your friends, your neighbors, and random people on social media don't get a vote either.
Stop outsourcing your life to other people who are trying to meet their own needs by controlling yours. Felt like that fit with today's calls. Kind of. A little bit. I think like three or four things happened to me at once. That was a note to myself. Like, stop. Like there was a family member that said something about holidays and one of my kids. Anyway. Yeah, stop outsourcing your life.
The people in your world only get a vote if you give it to them. Unless you owe a bunch of money and your boss will tell you, you will be here tomorrow to work. And the bank says you will pay me at the end of the month or I'm going to take your car or your house. Other than that, people don't get a vote. And it's so strange when you outline it that way. I find all the relationships in my life are much smoother that way. Or I guess the other ones have just gone away. I guess they've been like, screw that guy. But I don't know.
You were about to say something, Kelly. I was just wondering if one of those was like me telling you to be on time or something. You were like, you don't get a vote. No, you definitely get a vote. When it comes to that. Yeah. Nobody gets a vote except for Kelly. But sometimes I feel like my vote is vetoed.
No, it's just expanded. Or set aside for a different time. Okay, let's think this through, though. When they asked me, like, they brought me to room. They're like, hey, James is going to quit. James Childs, the quitter. That's what we call him around here. He didn't quit the company, just you. Just me. Yeah, when he quit me. When he's like, I'm going to go for the sure bet. The big, huge...
I heard a comedian one time say, like, rooting for the Yankees is like going to Vegas and cheering for the house. That's what James did. He's like, went to Vegas and he's like, I'm betting on the casino. Thanks, James. But they came to me and said, hey, we have our eyes on Kelly for this job. Can you work? Can you all build something for the next 15 years together?
And so I submitted to that vote. Like I said, I'm saying yes, I'm in on that. But I gave that vote, right? Right. And then I just don't listen to it all the time. Sometimes it's like, thanks for your input, but I'm going to go do this other thing anyway. Everybody, thank you all so much for listening to today's show. I'm so grateful that you joined us. Be kind, kind, kind to each other. And if you just have a quick, like sticky note experiment...
or a sticky note adventure today. Pull out a sticky note and just write down four or five things. I'm worth this. I'm worth this. I'm worth being treated right. I'm worth kindness. I'm worth a full night's sleep. I'm worth love. I'm worth, what are you worth? What are you worth? Just do that quick exercise. You're worth that. See you soon.