Chapters
Shownotes Transcript
Hey, everybody. Just going to take a quick break from the show and tell you a little bit more about one of our favorite things ever, Audible. Oh, audible.com or that app. The app is great, and I'm on the app constantly. Listening to Audible helps your imagination soar.
No.
There's more to imagine when you listen. And I'll tell you something that has set both Jimmy and I's imagination soaring. And that is the Lewis and Clark journals. We're both really into these right now. And as an Audible member, you can choose one title a month to keep from the entire catalog, including the latest bestsellers, the newest releases. New members can try Audible free for 30 days. Visit audible.com slash smalltownmurder or text
smalltownmurder to 500-500. That's audible.com slash smalltownmurder or text smalltownmurder to 500-500. Now back to the show. Music
Hey, everybody. Just going to take a quick break from the show to tell you a little bit about Angie. Oh, Angie.com. A-N-G-I.com. Absolutely. Angie. Good stuff. Angie's List is now Angie, the nation's largest home services marketplace, and they're here to help homeowners get all their jobs done well.
Angie, yes, they've helped over 150 million homeowners care for their homes. Whenever the project, big, small, indoor, outdoor, come to Angie, you understand, we both own homes and projects are difficult. And they pile up. They pile up, and Angie makes tackling the project simple from start to finish. Get started on the app, or you can go to Angie.com. That is A-N-G-I dot com. Get your job done well with Angie today.
And now back to the show. Okay, most Americans think they spend about $62 per month on subscriptions. But get this, the real number is closer to $300. That is literally thousands of dollars a year, half of which you've probably forgotten about. Thankfully, Rocket Money can find a bunch of subscriptions you've forgotten all about and then help you cancel the ones you don't want anymore. Rocket Money is a personal finance app that finds and cancels your unwanted subscriptions, unbinds,
monitors your spending, and helps lower your bills so that you can grow your savings. Rocket Money has over 5 million users and has saved a total of $500 million in canceled subscriptions, saving members up to $740 a year when using all of the app's features.
Stop wasting money on things you don't use. Cancel your unwanted subscriptions by going to rocketmoney.com slash wondery. That's rocketmoney.com slash wondery. rocketmoney.com slash wondery.
Hello, everybody, and welcome back to Small Town Murder Express. Yay, and choo-choo! Yay, indeed, Jimmy. Yay, indeed. My name is James Petrigallo. I'm here with my co-host...
I'm Jimmy Wissman. Thank you folks so much for joining us all aboard the murder train today. Here we go. As it pulls away from the station. We have quite the weird tale for you today. It involves twins. So right away it's here. Oh! Identical twins. Anytime that comes up, there's always something strange. We'll talk all about that. Before we get to that, quickly, shutupandgivememurder.com is where you get everything. First of all, your merchandise, but most importantly, tickets for live shows online.
There it is. All throughout the year. They're selling out fast, so get your tickets right now. April 5th, Sacramento. April 6th, San Francisco. You are up first. Don't embarrass yourselves. Let's come strong and let's have a good time. Minneapolis, you're going to be our biggest show ever if you saw that join out. So let's get on that. And also Boston and New York at the end of the year are selling quickly. So I wanted to say that. So you get those tickets.
4-20, April 20th, virtual live show. And there will be costumes, there will be weed smoked, and of course, there will be a live show just like a regular live show. All the pictures, except anywhere you are in the world with an internet connection. If you're listening to us, you must have gotten us...
through an internet connection, so you can probably check it out. You're aware of what that is. So check that out, and that will be available, too. You can watch it for two weeks this time afterwards. 14 days! 14 days, you can watch it, do whatever you want with it, watch it as many times as you want. So we're very excited. ShutUpAndGiveMeMurder.com is where you get all of that. Patreon.com slash CrimeInSports. That's where you get all the bonus material. Anybody, $5 a month or above, you get it all free.
All of it. Back catalog stacked. A couple hundred episodes of bonus stuff you've never heard before to binge on. And then new stuff every other week. One crime and sports, one small town murder. And how much of that do they get, Jimmy? Oh, every goddamn bit of it. Every drop of it. This week, which you're going to get. New episodes every other week. This week, crime and sports. We're going to do in-ring boxer deaths. Great.
People beaten to death in front of a crowd. That's always fun. That's how you want to die. Well, people cheer for it. That's terrific. And this is part two because we did a part one about a year ago and it was crazy. So we needed a breather from that. A lot of death. And then for Small Town Murder, we're going to do the Mel Lyman cult, which was a cult in the 60s, 70s, and then went on and kind of morphed into something else. Mel Lyman was called the East Coast Charles Manson. So that should give you an idea of what we're going to get into there. Some weird hippie shit. There's going to be
fucking in the woods and all sorts of weird stuff. So we'll get into everything and more there. Patreon.com slash crime and sports. And you get a shout out at the end of the regular show as well. Yes. So do that. And also listen to our other two shows, crime and sports and your stupid opinions. Check those out right now. That said, I think it's time to get into this. Everybody. Let's all sit back. What do you say? Yeah. So I'll take a deep breath and arms to the sky. Let's all shout.
Let's do this, everybody. What do you say? Okay. Let's go on a trip, Jimmy. Let's do it. Yeah. It's the long trip. Okay. We got to either get a plane or a boat or something because we can't drive it. We're going all the way to Hawaii, everybody.
Hey! That's right. This week we were in Nebraska for the regular episode, and now we're in Hawaii. You can't get any more... This train can't even make it there. You can't get any more different places than Nebraska and Hawaii. One is a tropical paradise filled with splendor. And the other one is Hawaii, like you said. So this is Hana, Hawaii. H-A-N-A. Hana, Hawaii. It's on the east end of the island of Maui.
East End. East End. It's right on the tip there. It's about three and a half hours to Hilo, which was our last Hawaii episode. Episode 419. A major lack of aloha was going on there. That was the name of it. No aloha at all.
Not at all. No aloha in sight, not a drop. Three and a half hours includes boats and small planes, and I believe you have to ride on somebody's back up a hill a couple of miles. There's some swimming involved here. Yeah, there's Sherpas in there somewhere, I believe. I don't know what's going on here. They bring them in from Everest. It's weird. Population here, 657. Oh, my. Not a lot of people in this area at all. Used to be- Wow. Yes. Very, very-
mildly populated median household income here. I don't know how this is possible, but it says it's 44,000. No, it's not 798, but that, that might be the people that live here. A lot of the houses are owned by people who don't live here.
That's kind of how this works. There's a lot of big houses owned by people who use this as a vacation spot. Very rich people. Median home price here, $863,400. That sounds like Hawaii. A little pricey, yeah. Just a little bit of history here. It was probably settled, they think, between 500 and 800 A.D.,
Wow. Obviously by Polynesian people. The first sugar cane plantation in the area was established by George Wilfong in 1849. Okay. So then there was a bunch operating by the end of the 1800s, and then by 1946, the last sugar cane plantation closed, and then everybody else moved to the west side of the island, all the people that lived here. Oh.
That's what happened. It left it kind of sparsely populated. Fantastic. Before about 1950, the population around here was about 3,500, and now it's, as we know, much lower. People who've lived here before, these are not people who were born here, but people who've had places here, Charles Lindbergh.
He retired there and is buried there. The guy missing a baby. Yes, he's missing a baby. Plus minus one baby, plus one transatlantic flight. Benatar's got a joint around here. George Harrison lived here for a long time and has shit here. Yeah, Weird Al has a shit here, which would explain the shirts.
Now I get it. Yeah. Now I understand why he's wearing those. And Richard Pryor. This is his favorite place. Had his ashes scattered here. As a matter of fact, this place has Richard Pryor in it. That's pretty fucking cool. Forever. Forever. Richard. So reviews of this town. These are for Maui County. None for actually Hana. But most people like it. As we'll get into here. Five stars. I love it.
All right. Well, yeah, I believe everybody that visits would tell you how beautiful it is. The flowing oceans, the native people. It's been by far a blessing to have grown up on the island of Maui. The island just radiates the Aloha spirit. That's why I have chosen to stay here around my family and still pursue my dreams of being an entrepreneur and one day be the owner of a successful business. Please help me pursue my passions and do what I love.
Is this like a GoFundMe pitch? What the fuck are you doing? This is niche.com town reviews. Who is going to find this and go, that sounds like a young go-getter. Where is that kid? I'm going to put that. And then it says sincerely Devin B. So she's this person's like, hey, talk to me. Devin, what do you love to do that you want us to support? Oh, shit. And two stars roads are poorly maintained. And when patchwork is done, it washes away with the next rain.
I believe it rains a lot there, right?
Gee, road fucking construction workers? Lazy? Never heard of that before. There's a couple guys on the crew that could be called a watcher? Really? Never 18 guys picking their asses while one guy rolls a thing fucking smoothing out gravel. Never. I've never seen that on a road. Never happens ever. You never pass by and go, looks like fucking a quarter of the people could probably be doing that. Yeah.
You're just happy people have work and you move on. I don't know. Each person has a job on that crew and it's not their turn to work right now. That's all. No shit. Things happen in time. But they use construction worker as a euphemism for road worker as a euphemism for lazy. What are you, a county construction worker?
Also, the price of living has skyrocketed in the last two decades. Well, that's everywhere. And you live in paradise. So your proximity to water is exactly dovetailing with how much the fucking money goes out. That's what it is. For example, a mansion in Arizona would barely get you a small house in a beat up suburb. That's because one is in the fucking desert.
It's a hellhole where it's 120 fucking degrees for six months of the year. And what is the tropical fucking paradise? You idiot. That's why this is why we do you start your stupid opinions. The show because of people like this, there are still lots of good at the same time, but overall negatives. Okay. So lazy construction workers and it's expensive to live on a beautiful Paris paradise, tropical Island. Thanks. And they're frustrated that their Arizona dollar doesn't go ridiculous. Ridiculous. Ridiculous.
It's not fair. Things to do here. Seriously, do we need to tell you what to do here? Go outside, dipshit. There you go. You're in paradise. Enjoy. Go look at things. Sit your fat ass on a beach and smile. That's what you do. Or if that's not good enough for you, though, go to the East Maui Tarot Festival. Oh, really? Not tarot cards. T-A-R-O, which is a root. And they have a poi-pounding demonstration.
That sounds very entertaining. Can't wait to see people pound some poi. Hey, go pound your poi. Why don't you? It definitely tells like you're telling someone to go jerk off. Didn't we have caught my son in his room pounding his poi the other night? Jesus Christ.
I have a thought that you could probably fuck, boy. Tell you what. Yeah, I'm sure. So it's a root vegetable taro. They say it's the most widely cultivated species of several plants in the family. Jesus, araceae that are used as vegetables for their corms, leaves, stems. And I'm not going to talk anymore about this. You used the whole plant. Fuck taro. Anyway, that said, let's talk about a murder.
Let's do it. Let's do this. This is weird stuff here. Maybe a murder. This is weird shit here. Let's talk about a couple of people first. Okay. Let's talk about Allison and Ann Dadao. D-A-D-O-W. Dadao. Okay. Okay. Let's talk about them. I can give you one birthday because they're born on the same day because they're identical twins. Okay. Yes. Born in Utica, New York in 1978. So they're from Western New York.
And born in 1978, like we said, Anne and Allison. And their mom is Maureen. Their dad is John. Their dad is a prison doctor. Really? Doctor at prison. Wow. When they're five years old, their mother dies. We don't know exactly what. An obituary in the paper said she succumbed after a brief illness.
Okay. I mean, she's a young woman, so I don't know what happened. She had an aneurysm or something, but something happened and she dropped dead here. So basically it was the twins. They had an older sister and their prison doctor father who's gone a lot. Prison doctor dad has to raise three girls. Three girls. Two of which, oh boy. Two identical blonde girls too. Oh my God.
They're like both little poltergeist girls is what they look like. Oh, no. Two Carol Ann side by side. So if the Shining girls weren't creepy enough, make them both the poltergeist girl and put them in the hallway with the blood and shit is freaky. I keep saying it's so cold. It's so cold.
So that's what's going on. They grow up pretty comfortably, though. Dad makes a nice living and they live in New Hartford, New York. Dad spoils them real good. Their sister, Amy, went to public school in Utica, but their father sent the twins to the Catholic school in the area, which really is expensive. It's the private school, basically. So it costs money. One of their schoolmates said they were nice, but they would fight almost like a married couple. The twins.
Fight with each other. Fight with each other, yeah. All it would take was for one of them to talk to someone else and they'd be screaming and yelling at each other. Oh, my. They're 100% intertwined, completely codependent, which happens a lot with twins to a certain degree. But I think losing mom at five and having dad at work all the time makes you just... There's nothing else but each other at that point. The whole world is they had to latch to each other. I don't know the psychological background of it. I'm not a fucking doctor, but...
How much older is Amy? I don't know. A few years older. Yeah. Not exactly sure of the exact... Far enough to where they don't feel connected to her. No. Well, they don't feel connected to anyone but each other as the twins. Oh, really? I mean, she could be a year older than them. It doesn't matter. They're the twins. Oh, that's why. And so, yeah. If you're that other sister, you got to feel real weird around the house, like a total third wheel. Yeah.
That sucks. Like you just don't belong. I just have my door locked all the time. Just talking to my friends on the phone going, I don't know, my sisters are freaky, dude. They're really weird. They just stand in a hallway and stare at me. My dad's stitching back together stabbed prisoners. Yeah.
Jesus Christ. So the other this guy went on to say in my head, I can still hear them yelling each other's names all these years later. And Al Ellison and Ann. So they grew up.
As they're growing up, alcohol became a big issue in their life. Sure, sure. They like to drink. Allison's the drinker of the two more than the other one, more than her sister. And they put on weight, apparently, in junior high for some reason. They were drinking back then. I don't know why, but yeah, they're drinking in junior high. And then they said they got thin in their freshman year of high school and they tried to present themselves as very perfect kids.
One of their schoolmates said that made their problems worse for them. Everyone said they were bulimic and they ended up putting the weight back on. Oh, well, yeah. Yeah. You're damned. Jesus. Because also kids, you know, over a summer in between eighth and ninth grade, they never change at all. Never, never, never. I mean, I grew like a foot in between those in that summer. I can't imagine the...
You can lose weight. Really, just any school year, pick one. The summer, you turn into a different kid. It's crazy. What if a kid showed up with tits? Then what happened? Oh, you got a boob job? Then you tell them, oh, did you get implants? No, I'm 14 and I grew. These happen. Yeah. She said, this person went on to say, it's like everything was ammunition against them. I think that's why they kept themselves to themselves. Sure. So you add all this up, you're getting a weird...
Weird, too, here. Everybody said dad spoiled them really bad, including giving them the keys to his Cadillac and allowing them to charge thousands of dollars on his credit card to buy designer clothes for school.
In 1995. Yeah, in the mid-90s here. So they wore, but they didn't wear like in the 90s Tommy Hilfiger guests or like boss or shit like that. Sure, sure. They wore Chanel and Armani. That's the kind of shit they were wearing. What? They went the Clueless route. Yeah, they went that way. They went to Manhattan. Holy shit. They went Alicia Silverstone Clueless. They were like, that's what we need, designer stuff. None of this kids bullshit here. One of her friends said even the Flash girls thought they were Flash girls.
It's a little too much. They'd wear gold and carry $800 wallets. A little too much for high school. Yeah. Why would you? A little much. Maybe they're going to be rappers. That's all. I don't know. You don't have a job, so it's... No, obviously. Why do you... Not like I've succeeded. Yeah. Having those things is like a status symbol of something that you've accomplished. You still have history. What are you doing? It's hilarious when kids try to act like they're rich because their parents have money. Yeah. That's always funny. Right.
That's always funny to me. Nothing better. Yeah. But then again, life works out for them usually. So that's what pisses me off. It's like, yeah, you're an asshole and you're wrong. But in the end, look at you sitting there in your nice house. And you're right. Yeah. Never gets old. You just have to wait for them to die before you hopefully. And then you win.
So they both also loved – they smoked cigarettes and weed and drank a lot. This is also the mid-'90s. Boy, are they fun. I mean the girl in our school who was – the smartest girl in our school. I don't want to out her because you could probably look it up. Yeah.
Very, very smart, excellent, partied. I sold her mushrooms, you know what I mean, like smoked weed all the time and all that kind of shit. So in the 90s, everybody did everything. It was just the way it was. Yeah, right. But they did it extra. One of their friends said, while others partied at the weekends, they pretty much carried it on all week. That's the difference. Those were the days when everyone drank Zima. Yeah.
I remember that. Yeah. Of course you did because it's disgusting. Gross. It's so sweet. It's just – it's like alcoholic Sprite. It's disgusting. Yeah. It's cheerleader beer. That's what we called it. Yeah, cheer beer. Yeah. Yeah. They said, but it never seemed to affect their schoolwork. Academically, they were brilliant at everything they tried. They could have been anything if they just had some guidance.
Another high school friend said they had an oddly close bond. I don't think anyone actually really knew them. I don't think they let anyone really know them. And they were left to fend for themselves in their own home. And they rarely dated.
Which was weird. No serious boyfriends or anything like that. They were just kept to themselves. Not that it's weird not to date in high school, but people thought they were pretty and wanted to date them, but they only hung out with each other. And they're like the party girls, so the party girl usually has a boyfriend. That's what I'm saying. It's weird for them, not for anybody else. So the other weird part is they said they like to cultivate kind of a mysterious image of
And they told everybody they made no secret that they like to shower together all the time. Why would you? They always show. I mean, well, you tell teenage boys so their dicks get hard, I suppose. But other than that, to drive the boys and say if you were 16 standing talking to two attractive, identical twins and they were like, we shower together, you'd be like, oh, my God, Jesus, why did you tell me that?
And then you'd awkwardly walk away to cover up your boner. That's exactly what happens if you're a teenager and you hear that. It's so fascinating, too, that as a teenager, we don't go, we don't go, ew, gross. No. We go, I want to be a part of that. Fuck yeah. Licker tits. That's what we'd say.
Show me incest or I'm going to jerk off. Yeah. No, join in is what we were hoping for. And we don't realize how gross that is. We wouldn't have thought twice about it as kids. Oh, man, they're identical and everything. What if a girl is like, I want these two twin guys to kiss in the shower? I'm sure there's chicks that are into it, just not every chick. Whereas guys would be like, yeah. Right, where it's every dude. Guys, we don't know why, but that's what we like. We don't know why. Sorry.
I also like Doritos and I don't know why. You know what I mean? It's just some things you just like. That Coors Light Twins commercial existed and it's fucking weird that it exists. And then they had the Doublemint Twins before that. Twins has been a big thing with guys for a long time. It's like one hot girl, but there's two of them.
And they're like rubbing each other's tits. Yeah, that's weird. Well, because it's like science fiction. It's like things guys like. It's like science fiction mixed with sex. Like, I made another one. She's hot, so I need a clone of her to touch her. That's why I'm surprised in weird science they didn't make two Kelly LeBrocks. That would have been the only difference.
In reality, that's what they would have made. Just make two of them. Fuck, make four of them. I don't know. Shit, you got a Xerox machine? Let's get a shitload of them. Let's just get a bunch. So they're very strange. They did everything together. They were both cheerleaders.
They both joined the Navy Junior ROTC in high school. Really? And their hope was they both wanted to become neurosurgeons. That's what they told everybody. Really? And they had the grades. Another friend said they didn't seem to have separate ambitions. If anything, Anne was the more grounded, Mella won, Allison was a little wilder. That's the one who likes the booze a little more. Yeah.
So the family moves down to Florida at some point. I don't know if dad retired from the prison or what, but they move from upstate New York to Florida. And the twins go to college in St. Petersburg and then in Tampa. Then they end up in the Palm Beach area where Ann and Allison opened up the Twin Power Yoga Studio. What? Twin Power Yoga. Twin Power. Picture them putting two rings together. Twin Power. Yeah.
Twin Power. What year is this? 2008. 2008. Palm Beach Gardens. So they're 30. Then they opened another location in downtown West Palm Beach three years later, and they had a third planned in Boca as well.
They are making so much cake. Oh, they're doing well down there. They're killing it down there. They were known for being very highly visible in the community. They're blonde twins. You can't miss them. Blonde twins in Florida that do fitness shit. Blonde twins could take over the world. Probably.
Fuck yes. If two blonde twins said we're running for president together and then just did everything together and then we're like, we take showers together, they would win. I'm sorry. We'd all be like hypnotized. We wouldn't even know what the fuck was going on. We just vote for them. The amount of male votes would be insane. Well, they just say things at the same time. Everybody's brains would just be like, okay, it's just weird.
It would very much be a sci-fi movie. The first time in history, this pairing, we don't know which is vice, which is president. It doesn't matter. No, they're both president. They're just both president. We're just nixing the vice president altogether. It's just one president. If one dies, the other will stay president. It's fine. And somehow they've gotten every single vote. All the votes. There's no votes for the opposite. Instead of the usual swearing in, they're going to take a shower in front of everybody together. Yeah.
It's crazy. Herbal essence, so they come. Yeah, absolutely. Make it hot. Get that broad alufa. Lufa her tits. Let's go. Fucking moan. That's not what we want. So anyway, they're doing very well for themselves, and they are smart, and they're very successful. They drive matching Porsches.
Un-fucking-believable. Yep. A former student of theirs named Brett said they had the best yoga classes he's ever taken. I've never gotten a boner so far. It was an hour of a boner.
Like it was like tantric sex and yoga mixed together. It was fucking awesome. I love it. I crawled out of there on all fours because I was quote unquote sore. Yeah, I was recovering is what they call it. I didn't need anybody to see what happened. He said they were very good at picking and training yoga instructors. They were very consistent. The best teachers around. It was just very high quality.
Their approach was focused on the spiritual as well as the physical, and they recorded a yoga DVD as well. Oh, boy. They know what they're doing. They're cultivating an image, too, with the matching cars and all that kind of shit. They opened the November 11, 2011 was their second location of Twin Power Yoga. So that would be twin. 11-11-11. 11-11-11, Twin Power. Yep.
So Allison said the goal was to, quote, gift yoga to the stressed downtown professionals of South Florida. She left off at a very healthy fee. I'd like to gift you something that's very expensive that you'll pay me for. I'd like to gift this to you for sixty four ninety five a month. Thank you.
Prego and Donata. So Allison told the Palm Beach Post, our whole life is focused on sharing this yoga. Stop saying sharing. You're selling it. Selling was the word. Selling this yoga. Whether it's this or a fucking, you know, dictionaries door to door, you're selling. You're not sharing shit. We just want to share comedy and murder stories. That's all we want to do. We're just sharing it.
We hope to get people get it to the people who need it. That's our passion. And another person said they taught each class with a passion and a knowledge of a more traditional Indian astanga. I don't know shit about as thing. I don't know anything about yoga practice that you don't always find in power yoga instructors. I didn't know there was different yoga. So that's power. Power yoga. Yeah. Yeah.
As far as I've always known, it was fucking poses. No, no, no. This is where you stretch and they're like, fucking harder. They just scream at you and you're like, okay. I don't know. I have no idea. Flex, motherfucker. They even became gossip column people, like people talked about them. One gossip extra, which is a South Florida tabloid, ridiculed them, calling them the terrible twins of yoga.
Terrible twins of yoga. They also said that Allison is the one with the big dominant personality, while Ann was the sweetest, kindest, most level-headed person you would ever meet. And they called them the terrible twins of yoga. ♪
Hey, everybody. Just going to take a quick break from the show to tell you about one of the safest sponsors you could ever see, SimpliSafe. SimpliSafe.com. S-I-M-P-L-I-S-A-F-E.com. Totally. And if you're anything like us, you think a lot about the security of...
Yourself, your things, your family, the people you love is a big deal. And especially safety first, especially like I know for me personally, after we had the house we were selling got broken into and everything got messed up and the plumbing and all this stuff was like, oh, my thank you.
thankfully we weren't there and nobody got hurt or anything like that. But I knew at that point, got to get some security because the world is crazy and especially doing our shows, we understand that. And luckily for us, when this happened, we were already doing a podcast and I knew about SimpliSafe and
We happen to have the best security there is. SimpliSafe is the best, and we've trusted SimpliSafe to protect our home and our studios and everything else for years. And you know us. We're weird with research. I've researched. They are the best, by the way. Yeah. Protect your home this summer with 20% off any new SimpliSafe system when you sign up for Fast Protect Monitoring.
Just visit simplisafe.com slash small. That's simplisafe, S-I-M-P-L-I, safe.com slash small. There's no safe like SimpliSafe. Now back to the show.
Hey, everybody. Just going to take a quick break from the show to tell you a little bit more about one of our favorites, Quince. Oh, quince.com. Q-U-I-N-C-E dot com. That's right. And it's busy seasons. We're all going around. We're going everywhere in the summer. We're traveling. Your wardrobe's getting beat up a little bit. Let's be realistic here. We're not going to do, neither Jimmy or myself, we're not going to do total wardrobe overhauls here. This isn't like some sort of reality show. But you get...
a few things here to replace some stuff and that's what we're doing replacing some worn out stuff with some high quality essentials at a very affordable price from quince and that's what we've done and they have all the seasonal must-haves we got some cool stuff jimmy those linen pants oh they're so comfortable oh they are you
You went for the outer. I got some undershirts, which I like because you need a comfortable undershirt. And these are really comfortable and soft. And I got some sunglasses. You can do it, too. Upgrade your wardrobe with pieces made to last with Quince. Go to quince.com slash smalltownmurder for free shipping on your order and 365-day returns. That's QC.
Now back to the show.
One guy said they were very well respected around here for a while, but when you get successful, it's easy to start overspending. This is Palm Beach. Once you start shopping on Worth Avenue, it can get out of control pretty quickly. Speaking of out of control, by the way, they're going to change their name soon. That's how out of control they get in terms of images and shit. Now they're approached as a potential –
subjects of a reality show, which the reality genre in the 2011-12 era was made for these people. It was, yeah. Yeah. And it was exploding. Well, it was basically like every reality show was like, check out what these rich twats are up to. Right.
And I don't mean rich women. I mean they're assholes and they're rich. Watch how they operate. Yeah, check it out. Rich twats. See if they argue with each other. Who's going to end up with wine on their shirt? There was a whole bunch of them too. That, all the housewives shows. There was a million of them. Yeah, that's it. So they are approached here and that's when things started to go wrong at this point. I guess their spiritual advisor, a person named Leslie McMichael,
said that told the Maui News later on that the people pushed them into renting a bigger studio.
The producers of the reality show said it would really look better for the show if you had like a more, you know, photogenic. A big photogenic studio that looks like, wow, not like such a little place. You don't want 13 people doing yoga. You want 1,300 doing yoga. Yeah, and they did that just so it looked better for camera, easier to move the equipment around and stuff like that. So they did that, and then the show didn't happen, and they couldn't afford the place they fucking opened.
I'd fucking crush A&E. I'd be so fucking angry. Yeah, you know it's like TLC or something. So they didn't know what to do. What they could have done, they could have annexed a neighboring storefront that was open of their original one, and that would have been a lot cheaper. But instead, they moved to the priciest, trendiest area in West Palm Beach, which was very expensive. And they were banking on the reality show to help them afford it.
And that's how it happened. Their spiritual advisor said they were all but in. They had set up their lives around it. When it didn't happen, they were in too much debt. So they put out a Groupon for their yoga studio. Oh, no.
And that was the kind of the death whimper there as they then closed both shops without warning. Yeah. Groupon was rarely used when a business was thriving. Yeah. They usually didn't need it. That's like, Jesus, how can I get a bunch of cheap fucks who I don't want as clientele to come here anyway? Yeah.
Remember when Howard was doing those? Yes, I do. I do remember that. Yes. Screaming about it. Yes. That's a small comedy club in Phoenix that went out of business like all the comedy clubs in Phoenix that were small.
So that's what they're doing. When they close without warning, by the way, there are clients who have prepaid memberships that are just – money is gone. You got to honor it too because it's already paid for. It didn't. They didn't pay their employees either that were owed money. So they just took off. One of their people said they've just vanished overnight.
Really? Yeah, that's it. They took off, left, and moved to Utah in 2014. Vendors, employees, clients all had their money in their pocket. Just ditched them. Took off. Goodbye. It's very weird. Somebody, their spiritual advisor said they realized that love was not in their future because they were so codependent. I would joke that the only people who would understand them were a pair of male twins who would understand they needed to be together.
Yeah. Which would be the only thing creepier than these two would be to add two more twins to the equation. Yeah. Right. That's fucked up. So their time in Utah here, they moved to Park City, of course, because that's, you know, swanky. Because that's the most expensive fucking area of Utah. They changed their names and they say they're going to write a book now.
Okay. All right. Well, it's one. They used to be Allison Dadao and Anna Dadao. Now they're Alexandra Duvall and Anastasia Duvall.
Alexandra and Anastasia. So they're still Ann and Al, which is what they called each other. But they just made their names a little more. They just polished up turd names. Yeah. And Duval is a little easier as a stage name than Dadao. And it sounds so much better than Dadao. It just does. Although Dadao sounds like, you know, Dadao, motherfucker. Like a rapper's talking about him in 1994 or some shit. Did you see that, Allison? Dadao. She got that Dadao happening.
That's another word for ass. So they also get back into yoga and open another studio. The problem is they're about $150,000 in debt apiece.
Right. And they can't make that happen, really. They open a studio in Park City, which is expensive as shit there. Right. And they have some problems, though. They end up filing bankruptcy. They also have some legal problems. They have some run-ins with the cops, drunk driving, intoxication, leaving the scene of an accident. What? Public craziness. Yeah. They're doing some weird shit here. They start to get a little odd.
Each charge makes the scene crazier and crazier. It gets crazier. During this time, by the way, when they had the studio in Utah, Ann told the newspaper here, we wanted the studio to reflect love and light. That is our goal of our practice. That's the goal of our practice. It is a physical practice with a touch of spirituality. And on the weekends, they offered not yoga. They offered dog, which is, quote, just a time to come in and connect with your pet.
Yeah. We're going to charge. We're going to charge you money so you can sit in our fucking room with your dog. Not a park that you go have a run around for free and really love it. Sitting here and have it do weird because dogs are very spiritual in case you didn't know. They really want to hear that part of it. How many times that did a dog shit in there? Because you can't tell a dog. No, no, stop, stop. And then they crank the heat up and the shit smells just going to come out even worse.
So they end up filing for bankruptcy in December of 2013. January 2014, they're kicked out of a restaurant when they're shit-faced and officers said they fought each other. Officers said. Yes. First they got in an argument with another woman. Yeah. Then that just escalated to a fight between the two of them. Yeah.
Then the police who arrived also, they got in a fight with them as well. Yeah, of course. Their car had slid into a ditch, the cops. That's how the cops found them because they – No, they drove their car into a ditch. They were fighting and they were – Behind the wheel. They were seen pulling each other's hair outside of the fucking restaurant and then they were still fighting when the police arrived and found them in a ditch. Fuck.
They had boyfriends at a certain time. One of Anne's exes said, quote, they were great people when they were sober. But the minute they started drinking, they were like Jekyll and Hyde. Yeah. It was over. Yeah. Drinking is bad for them. And alcohol does not help anything with them in Utah here. Changing their names, anything like that. They have a shitload of debts and they both are bankrupt in 2014 and local embarrassment. So time to move even further west. Yeah.
Florida to Utah wasn't far enough. Let's put an ocean between us and go to Hawaii. This is when they end up in Hawaii.
Nobody moves to Hawaii because they're broke. That's insane. We're bankrupt and everything's its worst. Let's move to Hawaii. We can't afford anything. Where should we go? Wait till you hear where they end up, too. They end up in a fucking mansion. It's ridiculous. I don't know how they pull this off. It's crazy. What is going on? So they get there. And at one point, this is weird. This was reported in that gossip extra thing from South Florida. Ann shows up.
At a family life center, which is a homeless shelter. Right. In January with her baggage. She had all her bags and just showed up at a homeless shelter. And one of the workers there said she had the craziest story about arriving in Hawaii a few days ago and getting robbed of her wallet and getting separated from her twin sister. She gave us a false name at first. She claimed she had no ID, no money, no nothing.
So they were like, what the fuck, man? So they ended up that's that was in January. They've been there more than a few days because of the week before here in on Christmas Eve. As a matter of fact, apparently they just got to Hawaii in mid-December. They said they were on a, quote, religious quest.
On Christmas Eve, they were arrested for disorderly conduct and terroristic threatening on Christmas Eve.
On Christmas Eve. Yeah. Come on. Malakalakamaki. What the fuck, man? That is not exactly. That's nice. That is not the Hawaiian way to say Merry Christmas to you. That is not very aloha at all. No. Then May of 2016, Alexandra and Anastasia, as they're known now, Al and Ann will say. Sure. They're living with their respective boyfriends. Now they have boyfriends. Now they have boyfriends. They're not twins. They're boyfriends.
By the way, let's see. Allison Alexandra is going out with a guy named Lonnie Dickerson. And the other one here, Ann, is going out with Federico Bailey. This guy's a fucking character. Really? She met him in April of 2016. And by May of 2016, they all lived in the same house together. Okay. Really? They met each other. Ann and Federico met on a Sunday in April at Baldwin Beach Park.
A church group had a gathering in the park and they said they, quote, stumbled upon the gathering separately. Now, I'll tell you how he stumbled upon it. He describes himself as a, quote, minister who lives by faith.
In other words, in this particular case, that means he's homeless and sleeps on the beach. That's exactly what he does. Yes. So he didn't stumble upon the gathering. People happen to have a gathering in his house. That's what happened. Yeah. They threw a party on his lawn. Yeah. He stumbled out of his bedroom into his living room, wiping his eyes and went, what's going on out here? I guess I'm at the party now. I am a minister now. That's it. So that's how he describes himself.
So he's lived on the island for two years. He's worked in restaurants on and off and that sort of shit. But Anastasia caught his interest, you know, because she's an attractive young woman. They spent the rest of the day together. Federico said, we got along amazingly well. She was a fun person to be around. She loved to exercise. We would exercise daily.
Yeah, when you're homeless, you do exercise a lot because there's a lot of walking involved. Got a lot of time. Good cardio. That's the only plus of homelessness, good cardio. They said the two would run three miles a day, go sightseeing and swim, and they would also read books together.
Bailey, Federico Bailey said our relationship was really great. It was really amazing. I felt I met a sweet and special person. We became then he says of the sister, even we became very close. We had an instant bond the day we met. It was very unusual connection. Oh, this is I'm sorry. This is about his girlfriend. I never really experienced anything like that before. It seemed like we knew each other.
Yeah, I bet. They had plans, the two of them, to buy land on the big island and had ideas for businesses, including farming. Oh, yeah. They're going to be farmers in Hawaii. Okay. So the relationship with her twin sister, Alexandra, not as great, though, Al, here. No? He called it hit and miss.
He said there were times we got along pretty well and there were other times we didn't seem to get along. Well, that's hit and miss. Yeah, you nailed it on the head. You could have stopped. He said they had arguments and physical fights quite often. He said it was quite often every two or three days. Holy shit. They fought like men. They punched each other. They fought like soldiers. They fought like soldiers. They shot each other.
Jesus Christ. They had bayonets. Wow. It seemed like they had some martial arts training. What the fuck is going on? Okay. You know what? Way more than any guy wants to see two blonde twins shower together. We want to see them have a karate fight against each other. That's what we want to see even more. I want to see two blonde skinny twin girls have a fucking kung fu match against each other really bad. A real...
Kill Bill scenario. They each have katana blades. I bet Mandy Malone could take them both, by the way. At the same time, kick both their asses.
He said they fought like soldiers. They fought like men. They punched each other. They fought like soldiers. It seemed like they had some martial arts training. This is amazing. That's a fun quote. They are really a well that you just keep, you know, whoa. Down here, it's even darker. I found something. This is just weird.
Thank God for Federico. He's hilarious. He said they know how to fight. They use their techniques on each other. I'll let you try my Wu-Tang style. What the fuck is happening? It's like Ryu and Ken fighting. Yeah, Street Fighter style.
He said they like to drink wine. He said at first it didn't seem like a big problem, but after the first week of knowing them, I began to notice that the influence of the wine was an issue and it seemed to fuel their fights. Yeah. Yeah. They lived in a five-bedroom, three-bath home in a 30... A three-bedroom... I'm sorry. Five-bedroom, three-bath, 3,800-square-foot home that also had an 1,100-square-foot, quote, cottage. That's a hell of a cottage. Yeah.
1100 square foot guest house say it on two acres oh my two acres of Hawaii yes at the time the property was valued at about 1.4 million dollars about 3 million now and that is where they live somehow with both the boyfriends and everything they all live here what no idea how May 29 2016 Federico's only been around a month here by the way yeah I've been dealing with this
I guess that they were Anne and Federico were supposed to go on a couple on a camping trip together. Just the two of them. They plan to go away alone. But Alexandra ended up popping into. She just assumed she was going.
He said that his girlfriend, quote, she wanted me to keep a lid on the camping trip. She was adamant about Alexandra not knowing we were going camping. But after she found out, she ended up going with them. She ended up grabbing her boyfriend's SUV and going with them as well, showing up. So Bailey said that Federico said Anastasia here and wasn't happy and was, quote, really bitchy toward Alexandra. Yeah.
Okay. When they started their trip. Then he said, quote, then when the wine came in, things kind of settled down, as they often do. And then more wine brings it back up again. Yeah. He said, later that night, we went to buy some more wine. See, that's the mistake. Don't do that. Let's go to bed. He said the two of them weren't fighting, like physically fighting, but they weren't really friendly toward each other either. It's bubbling under the surface. It's the calm before the storm here.
He said that he and Anne had fallen asleep in the SUV when Alexandra returned from another campsite at about 4 or 5 in the morning on May 29th and knocked on the SUV window. He said he didn't respond, but Alexandra returned an hour or two later, waking up everybody here, waking them both up. He said Alexandra wanted him to get out of the car, but he wouldn't. So Anne began asking her sister why she had come on the trip at all. Why are you even here?
Alexandra wouldn't answer, he said, and then they just started fighting physically. She didn't answer, and then it was on. Like, they knew it was on. He said, quote, they were punching each other and slapping each other and hitting each other in the front seat. In the car they're fighting. In a parked car.
They said, how long were they fighting for? He said, five minutes, maybe. That's a long time. That's almost two rounds in boxing. You know how fucking long that is? In close quarters like that? Holy shit. Just beating the fuck out of each other? That's a lot of licks, yeah. Ann was also upset with Bailey because he hadn't put up a canopy on the tent and it had rained. Okay, so all the shit's wet. He said, quote, she started throwing them on me, all the wet clothes. She started emptying drinks on my head.
What? Wow. Alexandra said she was driving them home and drove toward the other direction before she pulled to the side of the road, Federico said. And then they all got out of the car and he got in the driver's seat and drove them back to the campsite to get their gear. They just left all their shit and pulled away in a rage. Yeah. He said when they got back, all of a sudden they were in good spirits. All of a sudden they're just fine now.
Whoa, this is weird shit. This is certainly cyclical and it's not good. It's certainly toxic. But then he said he was mad when he realized that they had gotten alcohol from somewhere. And so they had a bunch of alcohol and he was like, oh, fuck. So then they were drinking and all that sort of thing. And he said when they drink, their personalities change. He said that his girlfriend here, Ann, told him that her and her sister had come to a truce.
For now, apparently. Then he saw wine bottles and a six pack of beer that they purchased. And he said, it was hard for me to believe Ann's words then. He said at that point he was just fed up because he got woken up. Next thing you know, fight, fight, fight, scream, scream, scream, punch, punch, punch. We get in the car. We pull away. It's crazy. He's got to drive back. We're back here now. Now they're drinking and they're like, oh, no, it's fine.
He's like, I'm not fine. This whole morning has been crazy. Where did you get booze? This is fucking nuts. And this is why the twin fantasy is terrible, guys. Don't have it.
Because this is the reality of it. Yeah. Two girls. Blood on you. Either fighting or teaming up against you. There's no way to win here. So he said that he walked away from them to compose himself for a few minutes. Yeah. Then when he came back, he realized they were gone. They took off. They took off in the car. Oh, they took the car. He has his car, but they took the car that the other one followed him up. Got it.
So, Alexandra Duvall was behind the wheel of her boyfriend's 2016 white Ford Explorer. When people say they're on Hana Highway, which is going through there, it's a twisty, narrow road that goes, you know, it's a fucking...
There's ocean on one side, cliffs and shit. It's a fucking island. There's only so much land you can fuck with. Absolutely, and this is on the edge. So it's a really scenic stretch of coastline. Somewhere, if you're a tourist, you drive it to look how beautiful it is. For sure, yeah. Right on the scooter. Yeah, they drove off about 1 p.m. from the campsite, heading north toward Hana. And he said various people saw the SUV being driven erratically
starting at like 3.30 p.m., so in the next two hours. So for an hour now, for the next hour from 3.30 to about 4.30, they're going to be seen driving erratically in multiple locations. Wow. Okay. A witness, somebody cleaning a family gravesite on the highway shoulder, told police that he heard a woman screaming in the vehicle and that the passenger was pulling the driver's hair and grabbing at the steering wheel as the car drove by erratically. Wow.
They've been driving for three hours like this. Yeah. Beating the shit out of each other while they drive.
This is unbelievable. So another resident, Chad Smith, he said that he saw the women driving in the middle of the road and verbally arguing. He said that he was driving to a graveyard near the church but was forced to pull over on the side of the narrow road to avoid hitting them because they were driving down the fucking double yellow, barreling right at him. Looking for a way to simplify your family's back-to-school journey? Have lunch with Pack-It. Pack-It freezable lunch boxes and bags are designed with EcoFreeze technology.
Patented, freezable gel that is built into the walls of the bag, eliminating the need for those annoying and often lost or hard-to-find ice packs. With Pack-It Solutions' oriented products, food and drinks stay cool for hours, making it easy to prepare and pack healthy lunch options. Shop cool styles, patterns, and colors on Pack-It.com. Use coupon code PACKIT20 for 20% off. That's P-A-C-K-I-T and the number 20 for 20% off your purchase.
Make Packet the first stop on your back-to-school journey. We get support from Dove. Hey y'all, it's your girl Kiki Palmer, host of the Wondery Podcast. Baby, this is Kiki Palmer. Let me cut to the chase. Did you know that in many states across the U.S., it's still not illegal to discriminate against people based on the way their hair grows out of their head? To deny black folks from jobs and opportunities because they have braids, locks, twists, or bantu knots? That's messed up.
And today's sponsor, Dove, agrees. That's why Dove co-founded the Crown Coalition in 2019 to advocate for the passage of the Crown Act. Crown stands for creating a respectful and open world for natural hair. And the Crown Act is legislation which prohibits race-based hair discrimination in workplaces and schools in the U.S.
Dove is driving awareness by advocating for petition signatures and supporting the Crown movement to create a society where black hair is not only accepted, but respected and celebrated in all of its beauty. Join Dove in taking action to help end race-based hair discrimination by signing the Crown Act petition at dove.com/crown. That's dove.com/crown. She struck him with her motor vehicle. She had been under the influence and then she left him there.
In January 2022, local woman Karen Reid was implicated in the mysterious death of her boyfriend, Boston police officer John O'Keefe. It was alleged that after an innocent night out for drinks with friends, Karen and John got into a lover's quarrel en route to the next location. What happens next depends on who you ask.
Was it a crime of passion? If you believe the prosecution, it's because the evidence was so compelling. This was clearly an intentional act. And his cause of death was blunt force trauma with hypothermia. Or a corrupt police cover-up. If you believe the defense theory, however, this was all a cover-up to prevent one of their own from going down. Everyone had an opinion.
And after the 10-week trial, the jury could not come to a unanimous decision. To end in a mistrial, it's just a confirmation of just how complicated this case is. Law and Crime presents the most in-depth analysis to date of the sensational case in Karen. ♪
You can listen to Karen exclusively with Wondery Plus. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify. So he, at this point, right after this, the SUV accelerates really fast. Goes like, vroom, somebody gunned it. Makes a hard left turn and crashes into a rock wall. Then veers off of that. Oh!
and plunges off a 200 foot cliff onto the rocks below holy yeah this is like it turned into an action movie yeah that's what you'd expect that's i mean it's an action movie here the car accelerated into the wall with no evidence of brakes either no braking um
Police officer Chase Bell climbs down the cliff to the crash site. This fucking guy. They're lucky this guy has climbing skills. He said the SUV had paper license plates and it landed on an outcropping of lava rock of about 30 by 30 feet.
partially down the way. Yeah. Um, yeah, it could have went further down. He said the vehicle sustained heavy damage with all the airbags deployed and the rear passenger door missing. Didn't know where the fuck that blown off. Yeah. Blown off an impact.
He said that Alexandra Duvall was not moving much and her knees appeared to be stuck underneath the steering wheel. Now, Alex is not Federico's girlfriend. This is the third wheel twin here. Yeah. They said that she wasn't moving much. Her knees appeared to be stuck underneath the steering wheel. He said Anne Duvall, Anastasia now, was hung up on the rear bench seat behind the driver's seat.
Okay. Now, Alexandra suffered some injuries here and had to be extricated from the vehicle, get her legs pinned from underneath the driver's steering wheel. Anastasia Duval, though, in the backseat and sustained severe head trauma and bleeding, and the cop found her without a pulse at the time.
He said, quote, while carrying the deceased out of the vehicle, it was obvious there were numerous broken bones, possibly throughout the back, as well as a broken right femur. He noticed a reddish orange foam coming from her mouth.
She was pronounced dead at the scene. Sure. Yeah. A forensic pathologist performs the autopsy, says that Anna died from blunt force trauma to her head and chest. She had hemorrhaging in her brain and lacerations and contusions to her face, had a fractured spine, feet, and ribs. The crazy part is long strands of blonde hair were found in her fucking grasp. In her clutches. In her clutches.
And they it's her sister's hair is she's got handfuls of her sister's hair in her hands. Right. Alexandra was hospitalized in critical condition, but then just was released and had her arm in a sling and she was fine. Lucky is what she is, but not lucky because now she's in deep shit, too. So they tell her their sister's dead.
The police officer said her initial reaction was kind of hysterical. He said, I remember her eyeballs getting real large. She stared at both of us. There was a lot of denial. He said she didn't cry. He did say she became real defensive and refused to give anything more to us. Wouldn't talk about it anymore. He said that he could smell alcohol on her breath as well.
So to get information to notify family members, they went to the registered – the address of the registered owner of the SUV, which is Al's boyfriend. Federico? No, no, Dickerson, the other guy. Oh, okay. Yeah, it's the other guy's boyfriend.
Dickerson agreed to talk to them and he said he immediately identified her as Alex's girlfriend here, Alexandra. And as the officer was talking to Dickerson, she was telling him to shut up and don't say anymore.
That's not good. So there's tire marks. When they arrived at the scene, a police traffic investigator said he saw tire marks that indicated they were left by a vehicle that was fishtailing and accelerating in a sharp left turn off the roadway before going over the cliff. He said, yeah, when I saw the tire marks, I immediately saw these were not made via braking. These marks were made from a tire that was rolling and side slipping.
Torque, yeah. The science of this as well, they investigate the whole crash and they said this is it because the cars have the information, the data now in them. Yeah. So this is the restraint control module provided data on the car five seconds before it crashed into the wall. The module showed the car was moving at 25 miles an hour and had immediately increased to just under 48 miles an hour.
Gunned it. 20 mile an hour explosion. Yep. He said in this case, there was no braking for the last two seconds prior to impact. The accelerator was pressed to the floor. 100% gunned it into a fucking wall. Yep. They said that Al Duvall appeared to be driving normally. And then there was a really hard left turn to the left, looking at the degrees and went from zero degrees all the way to 280 degrees. Also showed neither of them were wearing seatbelts.
Which is crazy. Now, a few days later, the police come to talk to Al and they show up at her house to talk to her. And they said the house looked empty. Oh, yeah. They had a large yoga photo of the twins he'd seen on an earlier visit was gone. She fucking gone. She took all of her shit. She's out. Yeah. They're like, where the fuck is she? They locate her the next day at a hotel.
She's hiding out. So they charge her with second degree murder. Second degree. OK, that's not good. That's not great. Her lawyer disputes the allegation, saying she did not try to harm herself or the person she most loved and was closest to in the world. So Federico said the crash didn't seem accidental to him, even though he wasn't there.
He said, quote, her behavior was odd, meaning his own girlfriend, he said. The day before I could tell something was seriously bothering her because her hand was shaking nervously and normally she's very confident and never shakes. When I tried asking her what was wrong, she blew up on me and made me feel stupid for asking her what was wrong.
That's the dead one, his girlfriend there. Yeah. Well, what relationship is that not? That's a party. Yeah. He said going over her – then he went over her journals too. He found her journals and said that she had been asking for help and protection from her sister in her journals.
And he said, I feel bad. Someone very close to me died on my watch. For me not to say anything now that it happened only makes me feel worse. Well, you're also some weirdo from the beach that she's known for a month.
This is her twin sister. Let's just put it all into perspective and context here. Calm down. Then she gets creepy, too. Federico said that Al, the charged twin, didn't have any answers when asked about the crash when they were home afterwards. Then when her boyfriend left to get her medication, her painkillers for her arm, she was looking for a bottle of champagne they had bought.
Which is an odd gesture after you just plunged off a cliff and killed your sister. Then he said that she wanted him, Federico, to help her wash her hair. Not his girlfriend here. He said, she was flirting with me and she was cuddling on me. She came and sat down by me really close and she laid her head on my shoulder.
He said that Alex put a dress on that Ann had worn a few nights earlier after that. What? So he was like, just pretend I'm Ann and fuck me. I look the same. I guess that's what he was thinking. So, yeah, they had been renting this property, by the way, from these people. I don't know how the fuck they were doing it for thousands of dollars a month. It makes no fucking sense at all. So very weird. They said it was probably about $3,000 to $4,000 a month of rent for the main house. Wow.
Makes no sense. So they're talking about they have a hearing to see whether they're going to charge her or not or not. And they say she caused her sister's death. She did so intentionally. No break marks. There's another thing here where the only place you can plunge off the road and into this cliff for like a five mile area is this one little that's the only break in the wall. There's a wall. Only place where there's no like guardrail. Yes, is right there. So it's either that or nowhere there.
The judge decides that the prosecution failed to present probable cause threshold for a murder charge and said no charge. Okay. So the prosecutor said this is ridiculous. We're going to charge her again. I don't know what this judge is looking to see. He said we're extremely disappointed with this judge's decision. Eventually he wants more evidence, so we're going to conduct further investigation. Okay.
Now, she is held. She's clear to the murder charge for now, but she's held on other charges here. Misdemeanor, disorderly conduct and second degree terroristic threatening charges. Remember those? She didn't show up for court for those. So she had a warrant out for her arrest anyway.
So that's a problem. So they're going to hold her for a little while. She ends up making some bail. Her lawyer says she's been in shock since the event. She's still trying to process what transpired. And then she disappears from Hawaii. Get out of here. Yep.
She was spotted at the airport a day after her murder charges were dropped and she was freed from jail. According to her bond agent, she's not allowed to be doing this at all. He said that they asked her where she was going at the airport. The police did. And he asked the bail guy said, can I revoke her bail or do anything from preventing her from leaving the island?
And the agent said that she paid everything up front. She was free to do whatever she wants. And he said he didn't know where she was going and received no indication she was leaving. If you're going to leave an island like that, you got to tell your bondsman probably. He said, I told her last night, try not to leave the island because they'll be watching you and her attorney knows better. I know it must be devastating that she lost her sister. But the main thing is she gets back here and takes care of her district case. So she's gone. They don't know where the fuck she is.
She's just gone. And the bondsman goes, if she goes to a non-extradition place like China, it would be very difficult. He's worried he's not getting his money back. So she's pissed. Federico's also pissed. He says, quote, I feel like someone dropped the ball. Somebody walked away free. This is bullshit. He said a precious life was taken. More time should have been granted to the prosecution to prove their case.
Well, he's right. I mean, butt out, Federico. You know her as much as I do. Yeah. Well, we know where she is because in August of that year, she's arrested on drunk driving charges in New York after nearly plowing into a vehicle operated by a state police investigator. Ah!
She can't stop drinking. Nope. Her blood alcohol content was 0.26, which is about more than three times the legal limit. Fucked up. Very drunk. She was released after posting bail. Then in October, grand jury in Hawaii charges her with murder again. Okay. So she's arrested in Albany and they set a $3 million bond and whatever. She's saying, I didn't kill my sister. I lost my soulmate.
And they said she didn't leave Hawaii. Her lawyer says she left Hawaii to come back. She just wanted to grieve, not to escape justice. She's very distraught, very distraught. And I think if nothing else, she needs just to reach a greater state of peace within herself because she has been – had a terrible experience. Her sister was her soulmate. Yeah. So –
In the trial, they have a murder trial here, and the defense says that the seconds before the SUV hit the rock wall, several witnesses saw violent fighting and hair pulling in the vehicle. He said the passenger was violently pulling my client's hair with both of her hands. It was jerking her head over to the passenger seat. This hair pulling was so violent that long blonde hair was found in her hands. So they're like, see, she did this to herself is their thing.
He said that the car then flips back end over, throwing Anastasia into the back seat. When they went off the cliff, the car flipped and Anastasia ended up in the back seat. And they said before smashing into a rock wall and crushing her, this is a truly tragic accident, not murder. There's ample reasonable doubt in this case. They get witnesses.
Who saw all sorts of people, all sorts of fighting here. One says, first they were arguing, then it escalated. Another witness from somebody who was in a van said that he saw a lot of gestures like they were going at it. Hair pulling and punching is what I saw. By the way, hair pulling is really what martial arts training is all about. All the martial arts really circle around hair pulling as a main thing.
precedent there daniel son would have got a hold of that uh that blonde kid's locks if he could have just yanked him to they were longer yeah he um yeah they said that this witness said he was looking forward at the end of the road when he heard the engine of the suv rev and he turned to look back and he said the suv sped up and then it jerked to the left before it went over the cliff it must have been a horrible thing to see i can't imagine jesus christ man um
So they get Chad Smith in there, another witness. He said, they were arguing. They were kind of coming toward me, so I had to swerve to the side of the road to get out of their way. They looked angry and yelling at each other. It was pretty obvious they were arguing. They had the science guy come in, the traffic reconstruction guy, and he said that, you know...
The airbag deployment happened. He goes into all the deep no tire marks, all the zero to 280 turn. He said the vehicle was traveling 48.3 miles an hour at the wake up time with the speed having increased from 40. One and a half seconds before that, it showed no braking and acceleration all the way to the floor pedal.
So they said that the defense attorney asked whether bumping into a curb while driving could cause the steering wheel to turn to the left or right. And he said yes, but there was no curb. They were in the middle of the road and then the steering wheel cranked to the left. That's different. It's weird. And the other thing is if someone's pulling you –
Their whole thing is that she was pulling her toward the passenger seat, so that caused the accident. But how would that get the car to jerk to the left? Exactly. And then it steered to the right after that, but that could have been out of control. Right.
Or the impact glance off of the wall. Exactly. It's really weird. They said there's a grassy shoulder and a gap between two rock walls at the crash scene with the passenger side of the SUV hitting the end of the one rock wall. The front driver's side tire was the first to go off the road into the grassy shoulder, followed by the front passenger side tire with the front passenger side of the vehicle hitting the rock wall.
Okay, so they said that you wouldn't press the accelerator, then go to the left off the cliff. This shows there was a massive left turn input on the vehicle, and the vehicle was accelerated. So they're like, these are things she had to do on her own. Gun it and turn the wheel to the left. Federico Bailey, by the way, who continued to drive. This is fucking funny. He continued to drive not his girlfriend's Porsche.
He drove Allison's? Alexandra's Porsche. What? Yes, the live one who continued driving her vehicle until she was arrested, until he was arrested for its theft because he just took it and drove it.
So when he comes on the stand, they're like, didn't you drive this woman's Porsche that's not even your girlfriend for a while? Yes. Didn't you get arrested? Yes. Did you have a criminal record in Texas? They ask him. And he says, quote, that may or may not be so, which is not an answer to that question in court.
He said there was a bounce check that I wrote that was considered theft in Texas. It's considered theft pretty much everywhere. Everywhere, yeah. That's bad checks, my friend. That's not paying for someone. They also bring in a defense expert that says, in my opinion, it's my opinion that the left front tire hit the berm. You can almost call it a ramp. The front tire got caught in the berm and the vehicle shifted and rotated to the right. And that's when it shot off the cliff. He said, so that's what happened.
There you go. Clear. It's all good. Yeah. So it's totally clear. So, yeah, the defense here says, I think it's consistent with someone trying to find the break and not being able to do so. It's not consistent with somebody five seconds before or even four seconds before trying to put it to the floor, trying to go over a cliff or a rock wall. So they're saying this is just an accident where she was trying to hit the brake and instead gun the accelerator. Right. You know, because she's never driven before. Right.
So they said the verdict here, this is not a jury. This is a judge who's going to decide this. Oh, yes. So they said rather than a sudden swerve to the left, they said the evidence, including a police diagram of the scene, showed a relatively gradual turn. They said it doesn't go straight off the cliff. It's a vehicle that's fishtailing and skidding across the road.
They said they also believed the defense accident reconstructionist's opinion that the SUV had been launched into the air after hitting the rock wall, which appeared to have a portion that was washed out. They said there's no evidence that the defendant was aiming toward this hole in the wall. It's just a hole in the wall for five miles. They said the vehicle crashes into the wall, then it's ramped or launched over the cliff. There's no evidence that Alexander Duvall even knew there was a sheer drop-off at that spot.
They said, you cannot believe that you could drive off that road 115 feet and survive. She did, which is maybe even more miraculous. The defendant lost control of the vehicle. Maybe she did input the left turn, but that's as a result of the evidence that showed her hair being pulled.
He said he believed a lot of, but not all the testimony of Federico Bailey, who had been camping with them. The judge said Bailey testified about bizarre episodes at the campground, including the sisters leaving for four hours in the morning of the crash and then returning and then leaving while Bailey remained at the campsite. So they said, quote, his conduct is equally strange. Yeah. And then they also said that, uh,
He didn't know whether he believed that she was trying to come on to him and that didn't really matter anyway. And he says, either way, not guilty. Really? Not guilty. Fine. You're all good. Keep on keeping on. Walk on by. That's it? That's it. And her attorney said she's extremely relieved. You can't imagine losing your twin sister in that kind of catastrophic, tragic accident, then being charged with causing the death of your sister, which she didn't.
So, yeah, that is rough there. I mean, she did, but whether or not she did it on purpose is... We don't know. That's the thing. If not, it was really a fucking miraculous kind of a perfect...
She certainly caused her murder. Whether or not it was on purpose, that's up for debate. Yeah. I mean, maybe a negligent something here. Plus, she was drinking. So they smelled alcohol on her breath, but they didn't bring that up at all. So it's very strange. 2018, I don't know. If she is full of shit, she picked the right place to go because she picked the most full of shit guy in the world. Dr. Phil, she appears on.
Really? So she tells Dr. Phil she doesn't remember much about what happened before or after the crash, but can recall being airlifted away. She said it wasn't until way after she was in the hospital she learned her sister was dead. And Dr. Phil says, you want to know what I think? You and your sister. No is the answer, but he continues. You and your sister had a very volatile relationship. You got into an argument. She started grabbing your hair, and all of a sudden you're falling 200 feet.
You know what I think? Your exact defense. That's what I think. Phil, you can't do that. There you go, everybody. That is Hawaii.
Trouble in paradise, obviously. And Phil sums it up in a sentence or two. What a dick. Like most other times, he has terrible insight to the whole thing. So great job, Dr. Phil. Great job, everybody. That is Hawaii. Wow. Holy shit. I'd love to hear your opinions on that. We are at Small Town Murder on Instagram. We're at Small Town Pod on Facebook. Follow us. Do all of that. Let us know what you think about this case because it's a fucking wild one.
hook us back up here and talk to us we'll keep talking about it definitely leave a review oh she's gonna hate us hard well you know what you went on dr phil so it's not like you're trying to not like you're trying to hide out and fucking you're not recovered you're also not you're also not shopping for winning personalities no that's the other problem but i mean if it is an accident it's horrible i mean it's terrible you could be an asshole and still a horrible accident you know it's
It's bad. Rate and review on whatever app you listen on. It really does help drive the show up the charts. Listen to Crime and Sports. Listen to your stupid opinions. Also, shut up and give me murder.com. Tickets to all the live shows. 420 virtual live show. Oh, boy. Get your tickets there. Also, April 5th in Sacramento, April 6th in San Francisco. You're up first. Get your tickets right then. As well as Patreon.com slash Crime and Sports. Anybody $5 a month or above. You get all the bonus shit.
Shout out at the end of the regular episode. This week, in-ring boxer deaths, people beating to death in front of a crowd for crime and sports. For Small Town Murder, we're going to talk about the East Coast Charles Manson, as he was called, the Mel Lyman cult. That'll be a lot of fun. Keep hanging with us. Check us out. If you want to follow us, you can do that at shutupandgivememurder.com. There's links to our social medias as well. Keep coming back. Keep hanging out. And until next week, everybody, it's been our pleasure. Bye. Bye.
Bye.
I'm Dan Taberski. In 2011, something strange began to happen at the high school in Leroy, New York. I was like at my locker and she came up to me and she was like stuttering super bad. I'm like, stop f***ing around. She's like...
I can't. A mystery illness, bizarre symptoms, and spreading fast. It's like doubling and tripling, and it's all these girls. With a diagnosis the state tried to keep on the down low. Everybody thought I was holding something back. Well, you were holding something back intentionally. Yeah, well, yeah. Yeah.
No, it's hysteria. It's all in your head. It's not physical. Oh my gosh, you're exaggerating. Is this the largest mass hysteria since The Witches of Salem? Or is it something else entirely? Something's wrong here. Something's not right. Leroy was the new dateline and everyone was trying to solve the murder. A new limited series from Wondery and Pineapple Street Studios. Hysterical.
Follow Hysterical on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can binge all episodes of Hysterical early and ad-free right now by joining Wondery+.