Summer Catalog (S2E20)
38:45 Share

High Five Casino lets you play your favorite slot-and-live table games like Blackjack with a chance to redeem for real cash prizes.

That's right. Hi5 Casino has a giant selection of over 1,200 games, including hundreds of exclusive games only found on Hi5 Casino. It's always free to play and free coins are given out every four hours. Ready to have your own Hi5 moment? Visit Hi5Casino.com. That's Hi, the number five, Casino.com. No purchase necessary. Void or prohibited by law. Must be 21 years or older. Terms and conditions apply.

Squeezing everything you want to do into one vacation can make even the most experienced travelers question their abilities. But when you travel with Amex Platinum and get room upgrades when available at fine hotels and resorts booked through Amex Travel, plus Resi Priority Notify for those hard-to-get tables, and Amex card members can even access on-site experiences at select events, you realize that you've already done everything you planned to do. That's the powerful backing of American Express.

Terms apply. Learn how to get more out of your experiences at AmericanExpress.com slash with Amex. Welcome, everybody.

It's Parks and Recollection. I feel so good every time I hear that mouse rat song. It just makes me...

All warm and fuzzy inside, and I hope it does to you, too. How you doing, Alan? How you feeling today? Alan Yang is with us, as always. I'm doing good. Doing good, Rolo. How about yourself? I'm good. The Rolo is good. The Rolo is rolling. Well, no. That means that I'd be on ecstasy if I said that. If I said Rolo is rolling. It's either you're on ecstasy or you're leaving the pod, both of which might be possible, but yeah. Yeah, I'm rolling. Let's bounce. Let's roll, right? Something like that.

We got a good one today. This is episode 20, boy, season two. We're getting close to Traeger time. We're getting close to Rob and Adam joining the show. How fun is that, man? Countdown. This is exciting. I think it's time to start the countdown. I mean, it's like imminent.

Yeah, it's a couple weeks away. So, I mean, you could feel the audience excitement in March of 2010 when this aired was palpable because they knew two handsome men were about to join the show. So there's a tangible heat in this episode. It's hot. Shall we get into what this one's about? And by the way, what's more hot than summer?

And this is Summer Catalog at See the Way. We're professional podcasters. We know how to weave storylines together. This is episode 20 of season two.

And it aired on March 25th, 2010. Written by Katie Dippold and directed by Ken Whittingham. Katie, a great, great writer, has been a guest of us before many times. And I'm sitting back and I'm ready for my favorite part of the show, the Alan Yang synopsis. Synopsis, here we go. Synopsisters and brothers, here we go. While working on the Pawnee Summer Catalog, Leslie excitedly organizes a reunion between Ron and his three predecessors.

She anticipates a Joyce occasion and plans to write a letter about it for the catalog. None of the four men, however, get along with each other, and they all have difficult personalities.

Later, a frustrated Leslie decides she can't write the catalog letter. She stops treating the former directors with any respect, calls them turds when she briefly takes a throwaway picture and then walks away. Ron takes Leslie out to dinner to apologize and vows they'll never grow to hate each other the way the four former directors do. Tom is tasked with taking the cover photo of the summer catalog and convinces Ann and Mark to pose for photos at a community park.

Meanwhile...

After helping Leslie set up her picnic, Andy asks whether April wants to get drinks after work, and she agrees. However, when they arrive at a bar, the bouncer easily notices April's 20 years old. Andy decides to go home, seemingly uncomfortable about their age difference. Later, the summer catalogs arrive with a photo on the cover of April and Andy appearing happy together at their picnic. Lovely episode. Lovely episode. Very heartfelt by the end there, Rob. Very, very much so. I feel like this might have been

The episode where I first visited Parks and Recreation on location. Oh, wow. Where'd you go? The snake hole. Okay, right, right, right. And we were preparing for new guys to arrive. And you can kind of tell because Ann and Mark are about to break up, I think, is one of the hints, right? It's like they're taking these photos together and it feels like, spoiler alert, they might not make it. Yeah, you definitely feel the Brandanowicz era.

coming to a close yeah he's just in fewer scenes and it's like uh it's it's it's like he's doing talking heads was like i think everything's going good in the relationship and then uh and is like i'm unhappy so i feel like he's uh he's gone pretty soon and then you know a couple episodes from now not to spoil it but i think you kiss and so i think we're we know what's gonna happen pretty soon yeah i'm coming in and i'm kissing my way through pawnee

Immediately. I like the way Leslie compares the summer catalog in Pawnee to Vogue. Yeah, the September issue. This was before that documentary came out. I think there's a great doc called The September Issue, and that's what this is, right? Yeah, and the September issue is the one, because that's where all the Christmas ads come in. That's why September's a thing. When's the last time you flipped through a Vogue? Because it's been a bit for me, I'll confess. Yeah.

Yeah. And it's not in vogue. Isn't what it like, like all magazines, they're not what they used to be. They just aren't, they don't occupy the same place in the consciousness whatsoever. And in vogue is just hanging on for dear life. Um, but there was a time, um,

when it was like a really, really super big deal. This is a, this is a super tangent, but do you think models, again, not to, you know, do you think models ever get upset that these covers are just all celebrities now? It's like not, it's usually not models. Like that's something I noticed about perfume ads too. It's like, it's always like, eh, it's Portman or it's like, you know, um, it's famous actors or it's, or it's Venus Williams or something. And they're never, um,

They're rarely men. Like even GQ, if they can find their way clear, would rather have a woman. Women sell way better on the stands than men do.

Rob, you always, Rob, always looking out for the handsome men though. Always. I feel, I feel bad for us handsome men. We're not getting the covers. You feel their pain, man. I love that. Yeah. But no, it's true. Cause it's like, it used to be models. Vogue cover used to always be models. And now it's, now it's often just famous people, but you know what? People love famous people too. Rob, you'll always be a famous person. So you got that going for you. By the way. People love celebrities. But I'll tell you what, I,

Let me ask you, okay, how many times do you think I've been on the cover of GQ? I don't know, man. That just feels like a trap for me as your friend. It's a trap. I'm going to say a hundred. Well, let me ask you, what year was the first year I was on the cover of GQ? I would say the 80s. It's got to be, right? How about four years ago?

Wow. I mean, that's actually incredible. GQ's been around for a long time, right? So it was around. Never, ever, ever, ever, ever in all the different iterations of my career was I ever on the cover of GQ and

until about four or five years ago i mean and i love zach galifianakis but i remember that was the one that made me jump off of dude i love that idea of you picking up gq this is a scene in a movie you picking it up and zach is on the cover that is tremendous content just the look on your face just a single tear man it's like man zach g made it before me zach g

Coming out hot. That's pretty funny. I'm 40 years down the road ahead of him. I'm still not on the cover of GQ. I bet if he heard this story, he would laugh too. He'd be happy. He's like, I don't deserve it. Yeah, he's like, I don't deserve the GQ cover. Listen, but you know, it's like Ty Cobb said, it ain't bragging if you've done it. The man did it. Yeah, well, you guys are both in the club now. You guys are both in the club. I finally made it. But it made me laugh. The whole obsession with magazines made me laugh because it feels very...

like of another time. That was incredible. So it begins very early in the episode, Tom is doing a presentation about the catalog and he opens it by saying, I love ads, right? He loves magazine ads. And you're like, wow, this is now so dated. Because if that character existed now, he'd be talking about TikTok videos. He'd be talking about NFTs. He'd be talking about promoting stuff on social media. In this one, he literally is like, I love ads and I love my TiVo. He mentions TiVo

Tebow at some point. It's like, wow, Tebow. That's very specific at the time, right? Because remember the noise that Tebow would make? It'd go boop, boop, boop, boop, boop, boop. Such a pleasant noise. It was a great noise. It was one of my top, there's a top six noise in my life. I gotta tell you, I think noises are, like, I think the success of 24, and I love that show, but half of it was the noise when they went to the boxes before the commercials. It's like, it was so satisfying that

I mean, you want to talk top TV noises. What about Law & Order? Like, oh my God. Like, that's a top noise. Top noise. All of these were noises on the sound effects, Alan. Do you remember in the room? That's right. Yeah. Again, for those who are uninitiated, there was a soundboard in the writer's room that Greg Levine operated, and he would sometimes play the Law & Order sound or the 24 sound. I

I want a soundboard for this. Yeah, we got it. We got to get going. We got someone we had Ben Schwartz on and he's got, which we need to thread. There's no reason it shouldn't be in almost every episode. It's so funny. My favorite thing was when you started just making Ben Schwartz do Jean-Ralphio sounds so that we could use them. And he was happy to do it, but I was texting with Ben later and I was like, yeah, so funny. We have all those sounds from you banked. Now we can just play them in the show. I,

Yeah. That was great. I like when April says, can you Photoshop your life with better decisions, Jerry? That's a great line. That scene, yeah, again, sets up the Jerry game that we used over and over and over again. And also, in many episodes, Tom is giving a presentation. He has a glass of whiskey like he's Don Draper in Mad Men. And so I specifically remember saying we should have...

him do that, right? Someone in the room was pitching. I'm not saying I pitch it, but like he has that. And then that later on in that presentation, he has that picture of him looking pensive with a tiny espresso mug in his hand. And we use that photo. I'm not joking. 20 more times in the show. I think it was made for this one. It was like a photo shoot we did. You don't have to do, you know, for the, again, for those of you don't know, we do like still photo shoots to get those, you know, images into the show. So you have to schedule that. So it's a pain kind of

But we had that photo. We just used that photo of Tom over and over and over again for everything. So I laughed when I saw it because I remembered that photo. Tell me about there was apparently a grammar debate in the writer's room about the spelling of catalog.

Oh, my God. I'm obsessed with this because this sounds like, yeah, this this sounds like a Dan Gore thing or something like, well, it's the same thing as we talked about possum versus opossum. I mean, we could go off as we should. We could go off. I think we're going to go off. It's so catalog either has just ends in log like the word log or ends in a catalog with like L.O.G.U.E. Like, where do you come down? Where do you come down on this debate?

I think I just go simpler. No UE. How about you? I feel like, why are people using the UE? That feels British to me or something. And I'm not British. Yeah, I don't need to doff my chapeau. We declared our independence from the UK. Thank you. Yeah, we don't need that. No, get out of here with that spelling. Greg, do you remember what the debate was? Was it like, we should spell with a UE? Because that seems insane. Why would we do that?

I think it was pretty much just which looked better and which one people wouldn't be so like jarred from seeing. Cause this goes way back, but in season one for Alan, your episode boys club, we spent like 30 minutes debating whether or not the apostrophe should be before the Y before, uh, uh, after the Y or after the S. It's gotta go after. It's gotta go after. We,

We put them both on screen and stared at them and voted to see which one it should go to. And grammatically, it had to go after the S, but everyone thought it looked weird. And I think by that point, we had a few grammar debates in the room. I mean, yes. Because it isn't – my mom is somewhere that my mom, Godbrester, is so happy that we're having – because she was an English teacher, having this debate. Because it's not a –

boys club that is his exactly multiple it belongs to multiple boys hands boys should be plural and then it's a plural possessive with an apostrophe after it this is this is wheelhouse can i tell you something though there's am i wrong is there a notion out there in the culture now that this kind of a discussion is not a discussion we should be having because it's so elitist that it's

That it's whatever, because I think it's great. I love this kind of stuff. I think it's fun. I will say this. If we really want to talk about it, I think there's a difference between prescriptive and descriptive grammar. Wait, I love I'm learning something now.

What does that even mean? So, again, this is, I'm trying to reach way back. I took linguistics a long time ago. But I believe there's a kind of grammar, like a school of thought that people should obey the rules that exist. And I think that's more prescriptivism. Again, I could be wrong on all of this. A linguist is going to write down, write in an incorrectment, everything. But that being said, I believe there's a school of thought that is like, we have rules. This language has rules. We impose these rules. This is how people speak the language and write and spell and all that stuff.

And then the other version is a little more pliable. It's a little like, hey, people's usage changes and we need to flow with it. And that's how language evolves. Otherwise, we'd all be speaking a really primitive form of old English or even beyond that. We'd be speaking. So I kind of am like, look, things change and different things become acceptable. Like there's definitely changes. Obviously, there's new words all the time. So why not new grammar rules if that's what people use? Yeah.

Anyway, a great digression. And by the way, this is what we do in the room to waste time and just never talk about the show because that would be great to just talk about anything other than the show. No one wanted to work and we'd always waste time. And you know when you're talking about grammar, you really want to waste time. Yeah. Yeah.

You know when you discover a new binge-worthy show or a song that you bump on repeat and you have to share it with your friends so they can experience just how awesome it is? That's kind of what it feels like when you discover that Mint Mobile offers premium wireless for $15 a month when you purchase a three-month plan. It's

Such an awesome deal. There's no way you can keep it to yourself. All plans come with high-speed data and unlimited talk and text delivered on the nation's largest 5G network. Use your own phone with any Mint Mobile plan and bring your phone number along with all of your existing contacts. So to get this new customer offer and your new three-month premium wireless plan for just 15 bucks a month, go to mintmobile.com slash recollections. That's mintmobile.com slash recollections.

cut your wireless bill to 15 bucks a month at mintmobile.com slash recollections. $45 upfront payment required, equivalent to $15 a month. New customers on first three-month plan only. Speed slower above 40 gigabytes on unlimited plan. Additional taxes, fees, and restrictions apply. See Mint Mobile for details.

When you're hiring for your small business, you want to find quality professionals that are right for the role. That's why you have to check out LinkedIn Jobs. LinkedIn Jobs has the tools to help you find the right professionals for your team, faster and for free. LinkedIn isn't just a job board. LinkedIn helps you hire professionals you can't find anywhere else, even those who aren't actively searching. 70% of users don't visit other leading job sites.

If you're not looking on LinkedIn, you're looking in the wrong place. LinkedIn knows that small businesses might not have the time or resources, so they're constantly finding ways to make the process easier. 86% of small businesses get a qualified candidate within 24 hours. They even just launched a feature that helps you write job descriptions, making the process even easier and quicker.

Post your job for free at linkedin.com slash parks. That's linkedin.com slash parks to post your job for free. Terms and conditions apply.

I did notice a funny scene where April and Andy are throwing like bread at each other. And it was it was right next to where we parked. So I just remember that's where we parked our cars. That's the so if you watch that scene, go back and watch that scene. There's like a Prius in it. So they're by the parking structure and that's on the CBS Radford lot. Literally, if you turned the camera to the left, you would see the stage where Parks and Rec was shot and you would go in the doors. That was where the writing offices were.

and whatever. I remember walking down those stairs at that structure and we're like, that's the kind of thing where Morgan Sagt is like, oh, we could just shoot that right outside and we don't have to pay anything and we just shoot it there and save money. And it's like, okay, that actually works there. I love that shows when they really make full usage of not only the soundstage, but the lot, like I had a friend who worked on Alias

Alias, clearly every episode took place in like moments in the Middle East. Then she had to go to Paris and she was underground in mainland China, whatever. It was all literally all on the Disney lot. And there was one patch, like a triangle of grass, the size that honestly...

Like if you were in an apartment complex, you'd be happy to be able to walk your dog to go to the bathroom. Like we all know what that looks like. And that triangle was Afghanistan. It was Vietnam. It was Miami Beach. It was so funny the way that people can pinch a penny and make something work for a location. It's like, all right, we put a mime on the grass. It's Paris. We put a yurt on the grass. It's Mongolia. We put anything, right? It's like, yeah, it just works, man. Yeah.

But you have to make... But by the way, this is the challenges of television production. I had a conversation this morning. We're doing a show right now. It's like, you have trade-offs. You have trade-offs and efficiencies and all this stuff. It's like, okay, you want to shoot this expensive location. Where can we save money elsewhere? And shooting on the lot is a huge, huge leg up for you because it saves your money for other... If you can make it work. If it looks at all anything like what you want and you're not sacrificing the look, then it's good. Have you ever walked on a lot and seen...

and been blown away and you go, Holy crap, I'm in Hollywood. I mean, I still have times like I walk in a lot, a lot of times go, yeah, that man, whatever. Good for you trying that, whatever. And then, and then you see somebody using the lot in a way that you just go, yeah, movie magic is real. It's Matt. It's actual magic. I actually feel that way all the time at the universal lot. Cause I, so I have an office there. Um, and, and just to, just to do writing and, and, and, uh,

you know, if I'm just writing, thinking, or just like taking a walk to like clear my mind, it's, you're on the back lot. And not only are they filming stuff, it's the back to the future lot. It's, you know, it's all these, you know, cityscapes. Psycho. And, and, and then there's also the trams going by.

So there's people doing the Universal Studio Tour, and the thing that really makes me feel sort of really grateful and a little bit emotional is I remember going on that tour as a kid because I grew up in Southern California. So on my birthday, I might get to go to Universal Studios, and there's a portion of the tour where they drive past the bungalows where –

you know, the tour guide said, here are writers and producers who make the TV shows and films that you love. I'm like, that's my bungalow now. Like I have a bungalow there and it's like, that's insane to me. Like that is like, that breaks my brain. And like that, that's when I feel really lucky. And, and, and, and you can't believe that you made it there. You know, you just can't believe it. Cause I remember when I was seven years old, you know, I remember when I was doing the West wing walking in my Sam Seaborn suit around the

Warner Brothers and all of a sudden I was in like feudal Japan and there was Tom

Tom Cruise in The Last Samurai. Oh my God. With like Rick Shaw's. And I thought, this is as radical as it gets. Yes. Yes. It's fantastic. The War of the Worlds set at Universal is also like that. Have you been to that set? I haven't been since it's there. I hear it's insane. Yeah. So Steven Spielberg built a down to 747. Right. And it's still up there. You can still see it. And I think they maybe use it for other shows and movies now. But yeah,

It is enormous, and they can light parts of it on fire still, and they can... It is spectacular if you get to walk through it, or I think the tour goes through it briefly. But yes, I truly... And I didn't realize this. When I was a little younger, I would always be like, location, location, location, location, which is still good, right? You can... Whether it's a huge...

a magnificent mansion or like a tiny apartment. I was like, you can't fake a location. That was my theory. And this part of me is still like, yeah, that sort of dogma of theory of like, you got to be there. But I will say having done enough stuff on set and on stage and all that stuff,

man, you don't know. We did the third season of Master of None and we shot it almost entirely on a stage and everyone asked me where that house is. Everyone asked me where the house is. And it's, we built the entire thing. Amy Williams, our production editor, built the entire house. And it's on a stage in London and we were pretending it was upstate New York and nobody knew. Nobody knew. So, movie magic, all the people, all the artisans and craft people and people who build that stuff is incredible. It's incredible. I like to watch things and go,

Soundstage or location and try to guess. Yeah. Like, you know, I'm obsessed with Vikings. We've been talking about Vikings. And by the way, because the lead is named Rollo. Yeah. I think he's the handsome Skarsgård, one of the bazillion. The Skarsgårds are the Baldwins of Scandinavia. Clearly. There's like a gazillion of them. And one of them is, his character's name is Rollo.

And, um, but I like to go, oh yeah, I think, I think, I think that's actually a fake rain outside that door. And that door leads actually to a hallway. It's not, doesn't lead to the moors of Scotland or whatever. It's fun to try to try to out, outguess the filmmakers.

Yeah, and we're getting to a really, really wild point in time where if your show has enough money, like The Mandalorian or something, you go inside an entire volume. It's just a 360 green screen and tons of that show. I believe, I think all of it is just shot on stage. All of Mandalorian is shot in a ring. It's not a green screen. It's an LED screen that they can program anything in the world into.

And then within the ring, there might be some rocks or some trees or some dirt or whatever. But it's insane. All of Mandalorian, all of it is in a ring, in a soundstage. All of the entire show.

I want to pitch a show where I shoot like that, but I use my ring to just look like a studio backlot. So it's like I'm going to pay millions of dollars. This show has a budget of $200 million, but it's just photorealistic CBS Radford or Universal lot. Just like, okay, we'll do it. I mean, we could just step outside. I'm shooting in the ring this season on 9-1-1 Lone Star. We're going to do 9-11.

Oh, wow. I'm going to ask you about that. Like, how it is. My character is a survivor of 9-11. Fireman who survived 9-11. So we're going to do a flashback episode. And to do World Trade Center, 9-11, towers, it's so complicated. We're going to recreate the lobby. But it's all going to be...

on the ring. I'm really, really excited to work that way. I've never worked that technology. I am very curious about it. I was, I was, I was lucky enough to chat with Jon Favreau recently about how they did Mandalorian. I'd love to pick your brain after you do it. But speaking of rain, by the way, the beginning of this episode is they do rain in the courtyard. It does not look as good as the Mandalorian necessarily. I thought it was good though. It does not look super real. It was, it was okay. So again, that courtyard is inside for outside. You know why? Because the sunlight, they do sunlight super well.

Yeah. The sunlight, which also makes the stage baking hot. And it might as well actually be an actual sun for how hot it makes it.

The West Wing was the same way. Whenever we lit... Oh, really? Whenever we lit the oval with midday sun, by the end of the day, you were just schvitzing. Yeah, and you've got makeup on, right? So it's melting. It's just all over your face. Did you find... Because, you know, obviously, Tommy Shalami lighting that show, like, was it...

Were the lighting setups longer than parks is my guess. Were they longer? There's no lighting in parks. But in fairness, though, Tom DelRuth, who was the DP on West Wing, did they lit the set? Because we just didn't have the time.

And then the lighting the actors was an afterthought. Parks was the same. It was like we lit the set and it was an afterthought. I remember one day when I was like, would it kill anybody to put a bounce underneath me? There's no bounce. Oh, we don't do that. And I remember Polar...

Looked at me. I'll never forget it. Polar looked at me like, I love you. Oh, yeah. God bless you, Rob Lowe. And I think for the last couple of seasons, I could be wrong. And we got to get Trimmer, one of the DPs on the show. Yes. Every once in a while, not a lot, but every once in a while, they might give the actors just a smidge of help. Because figure, you're on the fifth day of...

consecutive 13 hour days, you know, a little bounce under the eyes wouldn't kill you. Give her a bounce. Give her a bounce. It's also just a guy holding a card, right? It's not, it's not hard. We're not, we're not getting, we're not, we're not bringing in a condor to add additional lights, right? This is, this is a, yeah, not that. Yeah. But, but people were not really lighting on that show for vanity. Certainly it was, it was more about let's, let's hang a, hang a, hang a light overhead and just shoot for speed. But, uh, it allowed for fun stuff, a lot of fun stuff. Um,

Another thing I wanted to point out was Ron's running in this episode, which was a very deliberate choice that I was on the fence about. I remember when we shot it, but it is very funny in retrospect. He says he ate all the bacon. He found the bacon in Leslie's pants.

pack and says, now it's gone and I hate everything. And he runs away. And then later on, he runs again when he runs toward the food because he's hungry. And he was like, he basically, I think, justified it by saying, when Ron's hungry, he doesn't care what he looks like and he wants to just run toward the food. Running is a reoccurring theme on the show. There's a lot of, Pratt runs a lot, usually without clothes. Ron running is a big part of this. Obviously, Chris Traeger is completely built on running.

He wants to run to the moon. He wants to run to the moon. He's going to run to the moon. He's going to log the hours. Yeah. And I love also that your favorite thing about the show is the goofy jokes. And that's like a goofy joke that's also character building. So that's like, it's so good. The goofier the better. There, Swanson, well, you know, Nick is like an extremely powerful guy. He's like,

That body of his, he's like, how did you, it's like, he's not really chiseled out of granite. It's not so much that, but he's, he is like. He's solidly built, right? It's like a, it's. Yes. He's a, he's a burly man. He's a barrel chest. He's barrel chested. And he's sort of, he's like, yeah, he's built of oak. He's pretty solid. Yeah. And seeing him haul ass, it's very good.

It's very funny, man. And the other directors are funny. One of the guys, Michael, is played by Michael Gross from Family Ties. That's right. And so I remember when we were casting him and when he goes off on his rant and we reveal that he's

like quote unquote strange or something. His rant actually very reasonable now. He's just saying weed should be legal. So now he's in there. Now he's totally sane. Like in 2021, 2022, whatever, like his thing is like, he's totally sane. Like, yeah, he was smoking weed. It's like, yeah, you can do that now.

And people are like, oh my God. You cut to Leslie and Ron. They're like, oh, they're so mad that this guy likes weed. I was like, you know what? That guy was right. Apologies to that character, Michael, because he was right. It's a nice tie-up of who planted the weed in the pit.

from way back when. Yeah, he's like, I planted weed in community gardens all over the weird, like there's not, there's world building the show, but there's not usually that many callbacks. And like, that's a callback for many episodes ago. Many episodes ago. 18 episodes ago or something. So that's the writers being like, ooh, that's kind of fun for us. And I think, I remember we were pitching for a while about what made these guys sort of difficult personalities and what would work. And I think

I think we shot a lot more stuff with them just to see what was the best stuff. And I think the best stuff probably made it in this episode. But yeah, that was a little bit tricky figuring out how to make them awful without making them totally horrible people. But yeah, it was fun to do ultimately. And yeah, it was fun to have Michael Gross on the show. I know, what a legend. There's nothing better than when, as an actor, when you...

you show up and like you're acting with someone and maybe it's early and you haven't really focused and you look over and you go, holy, wait a minute. I remember this happened on, was it Parks and Rec? No, it was something, I looked over and I said, wait a minute, you're Michael O'Keefe. You're Danny fucking Noonan from Caddyshack. Yeah. I was like, yeah. And I was like, oh my God, you look over, it's Michael Gross. You're like, you just can't. Michael Gross says, you were the dad on Family Ties. It's like, that's,

That's such a fun thing, man. And that happens when actors come in to read. It's like we were reading an actor from a different world the other day. I was like, oh, man, you were on a different world. That's really cool. I remember that show. That is literally a different world. That's amazing. Yeah, it's really good, man. Watching this episode also made me think,

about the challenge sometimes in a show like this of balancing episodic concerns with serialized concerns. And by that, I mean, Parks is very much, well, you know, look, Parks is a show that you can pick up almost any episode and just watch it and it exists on its own and there's a self-contained story, which is nice, right? Which is nice because you don't have to watch the entire show. That being said, there were definitely serialized elements within that.

Like, if you compare it to shows now, like a lot of shows are like, it's like a 10-hour movie. It's like, well, I don't always want to watch a 10-hour movie, right? And sometimes that's too long and you have to... It picks up exactly where the last episode left off. So in Parks, it was more like, okay, it's lightly serialized. We have these ongoing arcs, but...

you know, you can enjoy the show without knowing the intricacies of each and every, like, it's not like Westworld or something, right? It's like, I gotta know every, man, I don't know what happened. I'm totally lost. But in this one, it's like, yeah, Andy and April are kind of getting together and Ann and Mark are kind of breaking up and that's kind of all you have to service, right? So, you know, you kind of work that into the overall story, which is about this catalog. And so,

I don't know. It's a fun kind of game of let's make sure this episode's really satisfying on its own for the viewer, but also can you make it a richer show by having these long-term arcs that pay off in the end? So that's my favorite type of television. I mean, it's the best of both worlds. Because I find, for me, it's a barrier of entry to know...

Once, like, I can't just walk in on episode five. I've got to start it from the beginning. And a lot of people love it. They super, super, super love it. I like to be able to have both where I can watch any episode. And then the more I watch in order, there's the added value of the threads that are being woven, like you're discussing, but you don't have to see absolutely every episode.

Yeah. And even when it is a continuous story, I mean, there's something to an episode feeling like an episode. There's an art to, yeah, okay, we're doing a miniseries. It's seven hours. But it's kind of helpful to the viewer to build in a beginning, middle, and end for that piece, you know, for that episode. I think that's...

we're in a really interesting time in storytelling, visual storytelling, because there's obviously films, there's long-running television shows, ongoing, there's miniseries, there's things that are in between, like all these Marvel shows, like, we don't even know if they're miniseries. Like, two

of them were miniseries and then Loki was an ongoing series like we don't even know so it's like you're kind of as a viewer you're just kind of like trying to grasp onto something and it's nice when the episode works as an episode for shows and I think there's something comforting to the viewer about that yeah totally do you remember how Greg Daniels in the room would call him vectors yeah

Right. That every character should be on some kind of a vector throughout the season. And every episode should at some point tie into that vector, hopefully. And they don't always have to be full bore about that specific storyline, but to help give you like a journey through the season.

I still use that term in writer's rooms sometimes, and it's similar to an arc or something, but you might say, like, hey, the vector for April and Andy for the second half of season two was that they get...

they grow closer together. There's an obstacle along the way, but then they end up together at the end. Right. And it's very simple, but once you keep that in your mind, you can kind of track all of these things. Right. And it's like Leslie's arc is she grows, she's, she's very book smart, but she learns a little bit more about dealing with other people along her way and like building her team along the way to her goal or whatever it is. And Ron is really hard nose. And then he becomes a little softer. So you can have individual vectors or you can have sort of

vectors in between characters where a relationship builds. Is there any value at all to having a character who never changes? And I think of Archie Bunker.

Yeah. Yeah. So that's a different, that's a different thing. Right. I think there are shows that do that a lot more. I think that was a lot more common in the past. Like, look, look at Seinfeld. Right. It's like those characters don't grow and change. This is different. That's that show. But there's also like, yeah, some characters never change. Right. And usually, you know, man, it's really your philosophy of what that show is going to be. Right. It really is like, you know, do you have a long term arc for the entire series for your character? Or is it more like,

the world changes around them and they stay the same. You know, I think there's, they're both valid. They're both valid. And, and comedy used to be more, uh, the, the, the latter, which the characters don't change. Right. And it's like, you're stranger in a strange land or whatever, you know?

Whether you're making the same breakfast that you have every day or baking a cake for an extra special day, eggs are a staple in our diets. Eggland's best eggs are nutritionally superior to ordinary eggs, containing more vitamins and 25% less saturated fat. Not only are they better for you, but Eggland's best eggs taste better too. There's a reason that they're America's number one eggs. Visit egglandsbest.com for additional information and delicious recipes.

Do you want to go to the town hall?

Shall we move to the town howl? Is it a howl today? Is today a howl? Is it a town howl or a town howl today? Now I'm just going town howl every time, but is it a town howl? It is. Schulte says it's a town howl. So that means it's a voicemail. Where should we do this town howl?

Oh, boy. I mean, should we do it in this picnic area that is in the summer catalog that is in Harvey James Park? Yes. A picturesque place that April and Andy get their picture taken and where the previous park directors get in their fight. Let's do it at this picnic table. Yep. Come on, everybody. Come to the picnic. It's time to howl. Let's do it, Sheltie. Hi, I'm Michael from Washington, D.C., and I'm a big nerd. So obviously I loved the Cones of Dunshire.

I was wondering if Ron Swanson were to make his own board game, what would it be like? Thanks. Oh, what a great question. Wow. I love that. That is... Okay. So... The meats of Pittsburgh? I know. Yeah, a lot of thoughts, right? So just thinking about like...

you know, baseline, you would think it would be simple, right? Because he's a simple man. He likes meat. He likes breakfast food. He likes pretty brunette women. He likes woodworking. However, he also loves puzzles. Let's not forget that. He loves scavenger hunts. So I don't know. I almost think here's a crazy pitch, Rob. Yeah.

It's a two-sided board game. On the top, it's the simplest game you've ever seen. I'm thinking literally like a tic-tac-toe level simple game because that's the surface that he presents to the world. And on the backside, it's a super complicated puzzle. Maybe there's a musical element with jazz. What do you think, Rob? I'm trying to think what else. Oh, I like that. I mean, what if it's a... I can never pronounce this word.

It's the big piece of wood, Ron likes wood, we're working, that has meat on it and cheese, usually charcuterie. Oh, charcuterie. Charcuterie. A little salumi plate. What if it's like, it's like we're using, because you got meat, different meats, you've got wood. Sometimes the board looks like a big paddle, the kind that they used to beat me with in elementary school back in Ohio. Yes.

And other times it looks like a pizza thing. So you could have all kinds of artistic stuff there. You can move things, move meats, various meats around like Monopoly. I love that. Instead of like the top hat, you're like the... It's bacon wrapped shrimp. The bacon wrapped shrimp. Yeah.

Yeah, your bacon-wrapped shrimp, and then there's, you know, a meat tornado, and then there's the turf and turf. Those are the pieces, right? Yes. Glass of Lagavulin whiskey. A little glass of Lagavulin. So those are your game pieces. I love that it's carved out of wood. I think...

I think we, we do it. Meats and cheeses are, are the pieces. Maybe Steffi Graf is one of the pieces. And then, and then you turn it over and it's the most, it's the most complicated puzzle you've ever seen. So it's like, it's just something for the brain, but man, this is the mark of a good character where, where there's no end to how you could make the game more complicated and, and, and, and, and rich. Yeah.

What should it be called? I'm trying to think of the name now. I mean, do we stay with the alliterative model of Cones of Dunshire? Like I said, it's the meats of Pittsburgh. It's, I don't know, whatever it is. Is there that, or does he have his own way of... It's gotta be, I mean...

It's a game. Well, Ron's game is really high up there. Because let's not forget, he called it the Swanson Pyramid of Greatness. And he named his team the Swansons. So he's not big on naming things in a florid manner. So I love Ron's game, all caps, very simple font. I like that. You sold me. I think we've done it. I think we need to call Mattel.

I mean, let's do it. This is, we, we made cones of Dunshar. It was its own thing. I loved that episode. I can't wait to get to that one, but, uh, um, it's a real game. And, uh,

Man, I loved writing stuff for that one too. That was really fun. Thank you for the question. Michael from Washington, D.C., Town How. Town How voicemail. Send in your voicemails and maybe we'll get to them and we'll answer them in our own townhouse. We'll say goodbye to the picnic area. I think that's all we got. Yeah, Rolo? Thank you everybody for listening. Another fun one for me. A lot of great stuff in this one. Alan, you are the man. I'm going to let you sign us off.

Let's say goodbye. Thank you to producer Schulte. Thank you, producer Craig. Goodbye from Pawnee. Bye, everybody.

Parks and Recollection is produced by Greg Levine and me, Rob Schulte. Our coordinating producer is Lisa Berm. The podcast is executive produced by Alan Yang for Alan Yang Productions, Rob Lowe for Low Profile, Jeff Ross, Adam Sachs, and Joanna Solitaroff at Team Coco, and Colin Anderson at Stitcher. Gina Batista, Paula Davis, and Britt Kahn are our talent bookers. The theme song is by Mouse Rat, a.k.a. Mark Rivers.

with additional tracks composed by John Danek. Thanks for listening, and we'll see you next time on Parks and Recollection. This has been a Team Coco production in association with Stitcher.

Whether you're making the same breakfast that you have every day or baking a cake for an extra special day, eggs are a staple in our diets. Eggland's best eggs are nutritionally superior to ordinary eggs, containing more vitamins and 25% less saturated fat. Not only are they better for you, but Eggland's best eggs taste better too. There's a reason that they're America's number one eggs. Visit egglandsbest.com for additional information and delicious recipes.

Being a chef means keeping your cool in the kitchen. And with Resi Priority Notify and Global Dining Access through my Amex Platinum Card, right this way, it's nice to try someone else's food for a change. That's the powerful backing of American Express. Terms apply. Learn more at americanexpress.com slash with Amex.