How to Retire at Age 36
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Look back, this is as the camp on your number one one stop shop for all your financial questions on today show, you get a good, diverse fight side of questions. The best tech to for retirement savings vehicles is the time to get up of a target date funds. Someone actually has to me this me of all people, what's a story with gold? Why is gold up? Why are rates up? Why are stacks up? Um some advice for a guy.

Retirement is mid thirties. This is obviously a fire person. And then some tax or strategies for selling your mag seven winners. The email here asked a compound show, a gmail about com today show is sponsored by public time, could be running out to lock and historical a public that com clock in six percent or high, and a band account.

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Yes, I was a time toaster.

Do that? Can I ask good questions?

Get into IT. okay. Up first, say we have many finding people advocate for rough assets with statements like all of over time looking at you show money.

However, isn't there also a strong case for traditional areas due to a standard deduction? IT seems like there's a solid argument for both rough and traditional contributions, and never hear anyone bring up the standard deduction argument seems like a way to get traditional dollars completely tax free and retirement. Listen.

if you ask for someone by name for the show, we will bring them out the gugino a bottle. But going here, joe, and money is here. Hi joe. Are you all rough all the time? Kind of person.

joe, a lot, a lot. I am because I love the certainty of knowing what my tax, my tax liability is and you know, i'm in ed slot, uh, a fiennes and I really like .

bills sweet hero yeah I mean.

I he's great and you know I okay yes, there are certain cases where can work out, but I love the certainty of knowing what my tax liability is and that's really the issue. And by the way, tax rates are so low right now, the certainty of paying the tax today versus what I think could be rising tax rates in the future makes me say, okay, i'm going to amend IT for our, for listener, for our viewer. And that is all worth most, most, most of the time with a few little cases outside. What do you think, ben.

I do. I mean, i'm a convert to the rough. Bill sweet has talked me to this too. I I funding open roof four and kate were hold a couple years ago. I, of course, made the change to that. I understand, put rough dollars in, but my match from the companies in traditional that we are, well.

I need to talk to management about that.

I know there yeah those guys, uh, I do like the idea of some tax diversification because I think for Young people, I I feel like some people the spread sheet warriors will ask us, well, what if I just go into traditional and then I I take my textured and I save the difference to invest ted, and most people aren't going to do that, right? You you're going to to spend your tax return on something else. So you're not really going to do that.

So I I probably filled up the traditional bucket, and I was Younger and i've worked on filling up the rough bucket more recently. So I like the fact that a heavy of diversity, but have gone to my head, which you know usually I don't have a gun ahead for financial decisions. I'm picturing like Jason bateman and is that the show tied up and that doesn't happen with financial decisions?

No, you know but but I also can say this that you know i'm at the other end of probably oldest person here by you know two decades at least maybe three. Um I think that a lot of the listeners to drill on money and also a lot of my cohorts, the problem we have is that we've already saved so much money pretax, that the problem continues to compound.

And the the issue is if you've got you know if you're thirty eight years old and you ve got a million dollars in traditional, that problem is only getting worse. And those required minimum distributions, they're nasty because that pushes you into different tax bracket. And you thought IT changes your are your medical care payments is just like a lot of stuff that is out of your control later in life. And i'm a control freak when IT comes to my money. So that's why I think I lean rough in so many cases, right?

Most, most people are probably, I like you. They have more traditional I R A assets than they do rough. And balancing IT out with more rough assets makes more sense.

That makes sense when I ve some people talk about sput IT up for you four one k doing some traditional some rough and in is there I mean, that .

depends, I mean, if if you are, I guess that if you're really uncertain and you want to like play both sides, I just don't see a huge downside of being mostly rough, especially if you if you ve got time. Because I think that the idea that money is going to grow without any taxation ever is pretty appealing to me. I like IT.

Okay, all rough most of the time. Most, most.

most of I next have a question came on twitter. I think why would anyone recommend a target date fund by twenty fifty five? Underperformed the S M P.

Five hundred over the past one, five and ten years and has higher expenses. What am I missing? I feel like this is very target. Do you been IT .

is a targeted question about a targeted on, listen, this is like going to the buffet asking, where is my fly, right? You when when you go over buffet, you're gonna get like some decent food. It's okay. You're not going get the best option.

You're not going to get what's justice favorite every time go to stake out like the time a hawker, whatever it's like got a fred flintham bone in IT every time to come to new ork uh, so you're throat charge john. Uh, this is, this is the S P. Five hundred versus of anger twenty fifty five.

And you can see the S P. Val, this is the last five years is is up performing by quite a wide margins, how performing like forty percent. But this fund has not only a total stock market index for the U.

S. That also as international socks IT is international bonds and as U S. Bonds, it's really, really happy to think it's like a ninety ten fun, but it's not perform because it's more diversified. So you could always invest in the review mirror and say, well, why would I invest in anything else besides the thing they did the best. But I think that's a little harder to do going for than .

IT is in the past. You know, I also think that there has to be a recognition that for some people that probably not watching this program, but for some people, just like starting out with something, we want people to just start. It's like, okay, if that is the the gateway drug to investing, then i'm OK with that. I think the bigger problem that you find is that a lot of people will have a target date fund and then have like four other funds in their retirement accounts, like either just start with your target fund or just say are put an index fun and an index fun fun and go to sleep at night, it's fine. But I think that if we're just saying what is the the easier step to start.

that's not the worst one, right? Yes, if you want to have all your money in the U. S. Stock market, gp, I am sure you will go have added but um I do agree that this targeted fun is a wonderful step forward for people who just look at their foreign line.

O I I don't know what to do and a lot of that money, the past would end up in a stable value fund, never get the stock market or never get diverse exposure. So the great thing about targeted funds is is professionally managed IT rebaLanced automatically for you. They handle all the diversification in one spot.

Like it's a great starting point. I agree. People will poke holes in and say, well, there is this problem and that problem, but it's guess what is Better than most of the alternatives. So IT could be Better. yes.

IT also could be way, way worse. I will I also wanted just remind everybody and I know benno's is there are some plans where the target date fund is so dumb, expensive that you it's like a head scratch, like you guys have to be thieves on that like that. We're just trying to get people to start like that's not where you should have the saver saves up for your emerging market fund and give .

most for ren k plans. If you want to do IT on your own and you you still want to be diversity, there is usually a button you can click. This says, rebounds is for my annually automatically.

And then you do IT, and you take yourself of equation. You don't. You do.

So if you want to be more diverse, ed, you can create your own set of funds. Or if you just want to have IT in one U S. Stock market fund in europe with that, sure. But just know we're getting yourself that we're comparing apples in order. Just here is not the same thing.

I kind like building my you know personally, but you don't .

want to use a target date fun.

duncan.

You don't want to have a hundred percent in a single stock.

No, no, i'm i'm diverse.

Ed is right. Next, speak. Yeah.

i'm next. We have .

a question of gold, which, uh, is a common one these days. What's the story with gold visitors? My understanding is that in times of peril goes where people go in the most pair with times the last five years, I feel like the Price of gold really didn't do anything.

IT wasn't the hedge that most people believe that to be. Can you thread the story of the stock market interest rates and gold? Is gold no longer a good hedger against market turbulence? Is duncan trading weather gold futures make IT make sense? Is there ever gold etf?

I'm sure if if IT existed, IT would be in your part for the good use of the word perl here. I don't use that word enough. Uh, my my instant reaction here is markets don't always make sense. So jill, I have a series of structure I want to run through. They want to get kay, but for my glasses on for this.

get on. So the first one.

john throw appear. This just shows the one year return for stacks in the S. P.

Five hundred. And goal. There are both up roughly forty percent.

The stack markers up forty three percent last twelve months. I update this this morning. Gold is up thirty eight percent.

Collar and john next chart place. That's all the last year. This is the history of gold versus P.

I funded rolling club months returns going back to one thousand nine seventy, which is effectively when we got off the next and got off the gold stand. Um you can see that these things move in. They don't always move in last step one another, usually out of one.

And I actually to cut this chart off because returns were so high. And seventies and eighties, the best twelve months return for gold since one thousand nine hundred seventy was a one hundred and eighty percent. In the in early thousand thousand and eighty, late one thousand nine hundred seventies, the best four month to turn for stocks to sixty percent.

So you can see this doesn't happen very often with are both move up. In fact, I found one other instance in november of one thousand nine hundred and eighty were both stacks and gold were up thirty five, forty percent. Tish at the same time happened one time in in this past fifty five years, whatever.

So it's it's very rare to see what we're happen having this year happen. So at one more join, this is gold and stocks in your returns by decade seventies gold crush the stock market. Nineteen ninety and one thousand and eighty stock market crush gold.

You had a two decade, two lost decades for goldin, a role. Then you had a lost decade for the stacks in the two thousands, and gold did well. Two thousand ten gold perform polegate stocks to well this decade so far, half through the decade dish.

We're looking at stocks and gold both up quite a bit. So both double din numerals that has never happened the past six decades. Um so this is this is kind of uncharted territory here. And my whole thinking is that stuff that has never happened in the markets tends to happen all the time. And kind of you get used to IT.

But I I think my big take away here, my like then philosopher and thing is that some the reason doesn't matter, right? Because you could say, well, golds in inflation hedge, sometimes IT is, sometimes IT isn't. Gold does well when real interest rates are low because gold doesn't pay any cash lows. But this year, really interest rates are going up and gold going up. And so I think if you try to pigeonhole yourself into some sort of if then framework about the market has to work like this, if this happen, that happens, the markets don't work like that.

And h, as the former gold trader that I was because I I did get my start on the commodity is exchange of new york. And I trading gold futures. I traded gold options. So options on the futures, I was in the gold ring.

So like on trading places, you were down. Mr, I think I yes, before you yes.

open out, cry out, yes, that me, that me. And they were like, oh, she's five eleven SHE node, a handle herself perfect not big enough to be in the crude oil pit, but big enough to be in the goal pit. And I was again, I wasn't trading futures.

I was trading the options on futures and um and you know what's fascinating to me is that forever I remember I started trading in one thousand nine hundred eighty seven so I wasn't even in the hay day of gold but when I got to the comex there was like that haze of like, oh remember when and you could see that already IT was a hate for the pond, losing its luster in many respects. IT was seen as the essentially not just a hydrogen st. Inflation IT was the army garden trade IT was the if everything goes to hell in a hand basket, you want to own gold and my first lesson with that was in october of one thousand nine hundred eighty seven, when the stock market crashed.

And, you know, everybody was really nervous and they said, oh, everyone, go home long a gold. And I screwed up my calculation, and I went home flat. And my boss shewed me out in front of everybody and saying, I told you to go home long. I told you to go home long. And the next morning gold opened limit down, down twenty five bucks because there were so .

many margin calls in the stock market that yeah fell down the .

next day limit down. And so here's what I can sell everybody about gold. And I agree with you band. Nobody really knows.

I heard josh articulate of you recently that I thought the kinds made stance, which is, you know, maybe it's not so much an armor given against market disaster, but about global insecurity, so that if you are a country and you're worried about sanctions or you're worried about trade wars, that gold is not something that anybody can look at from the treasury department and say, but we're locking you out of your account. So there is something to be said for some sovereign tions buying gold. The other thing is there's just a lot of money on the sidelines being throned ideas.

And if golders an idea and crypto as an idea and everybody just wants a little idea that somewhat different, fine. And somebody who was a gold trade, or what I can tell you was actively trading gold is a as a be for disaster. I'm unless you really know what you're doing and if you want of some small position and gold, like two percent, three percent, go added. I don't know any the woman who was a gold trader, I don't know any gold.

but it's the kind of thing I look at if if you're holding IT as a diversifier in your portfolio, you hold that come hello high water, you know you don't try to get them out. You hold that you rebaLance into the pain yeah you take the money often is doing well like this year. That's how IT works and helps report folio over time because IT is it's a vital asset and you want to trade around and IT rebaLance IT. But that's the thing is not trying to jump in .

and out yeah I agree one hundred percent.

This is uh also on the same kind of topic I was asking a while back off show then like how is dumas that have been so negative for so long? Aren't just all out of money and you are basically I go gold kind .

of build go build zero .

dge or ony that they really are one hundred percent and you know against I think that I don't believe IT unless I saw your trading run down and I saw your account statement, I then i'll believe IT otherwise I think there's a lot of job boning. I known a lot of put on a theirs who were quietly long. S, M, P, future is just in case, right? Yes, I wouldn't .

doubt that if there is some more news letter writers who have S P hundred next.

I know a famous short, I think in big trouble, recently went to jail or something over that everything doing the opposite way was telling us.

people go to jail. You don't T, T. The U. S. A, right?

Hey.

I mean.

there's .

there. Next question OK up.

Next we have one from David. I'm planning to retire next year, age thirty six, on a five six percent, withdrawing from my not retirement accounts. Given that I can touch my retirement accounts for another twenty three and half years without paying penalties, would you recommend doing annual rough conversions up to the standard deduction to avoid paying taxes, to avoid overdrawing for my no retirement accounts?

Big time. Fire guy here, thirty six years old.

Do what you going to do.

That is the big question. What you going to do with your time to become A E first blush, five, six percent seems high, but IT sounds to me like he's going to use the five to six percent for the next twenty whatever years I can touch return account and then transition into using a return account from that point.

So I guess the five six percent initial blush seem high, but it's probably not as high as IT seems because it's going to that money will probably run out eventually, I guess would be the the option. Um so let's say that his plane works out and he retires thirty six and he can finally start using his his human assets like twenty five years does. Does this make sense to the Daniel roth conversions? Are you are you on board of that?

Well, I am unclear because I would need to know the actual dollar amounts. So I think the problem is like I would hate to soaked up all of your liquidity doing rough conversion. That's the only thing that i'm worried about.

So you know if you have I don't know what the numbers are. So let's pretend he's got two million dollars in his retirement account, in a million dollars in non retirement account, and he's going to let the retirement account go. Do you really want to use your non retirement assets to do the conversion with the fear that you are overly ambitions like that would be great to do IT at twelve percent, fantastic.

But I am concerned that you don't soaked up all the liquidity in the non retirement accounts too quickly. That's that's the issue for me. So you tell me how much money you have outside and you have how much money you have inside those tax to her accounts. And then I think we have a Better chance of giving you a an answer that makes more sense for you. I get that .

because maybe you've selling yourself for the future, but you're hurting yourself in the present to do so, right? And you have the maybe baLanced I do think you're point about what are you going to do with your time here is something that probably not enough folks pay attention to them and that people in their thirties or four years or fifty or sixty, right, like what are you actually going .

to do with your time ban? I cannot tell you how many times people come on to my pod and we'll say on fifty two and I want to retire and my response is Normally what what are you going to do? And that's not because I am turning fifty nine and I can't imagine really being done.

And I think the number of people who are not giving thought to this, even if you're in your forties or fifties or sixties having some sembLance of an off rap to get you from like balls to the wall, working and really like pushing IT to doing nothing, I I think there's a real danger in that. And the people that I know, you know, i'd hate to be the kind of person I know. So so many folks like this, it's like they work really hard.

They get to the number they're done and then they actually are like completely bored and don't know what to do with themselves and they are driving their spouses crazy. And then they end up going back into the disgusting rat race, doing something really that they work so decades to get out of. So when you're thinking about retirement, think about is there some period of time? There are five year period where I can do something a little different, where I could maybe give my notice, but then act as a consulted, or where I can say I need to make sure that I have something to do with myself.

You are likely if you're gona retire IT thirty six, forty six and even fifty six, let's say you retire fifty six, you could live for thirty five more years. Are you gona do nothing? Nothing for thirty five years? I doubt IT, you're going to have to figure out how to occupy yourself.

The sense that I get from a lot of the fire people, what of the financially dependent iteration is a lot of them hate their jobs and reason they are doing this. It's like i'm going to take big time pain now, tons of delay gratification, and then i'm done. I can leave this job.

So the point, if that's your case and I I get that I I would not want to be part of a soul locking job. I've had jobs I don't like in the past. I understand how that works, but I think then you need to have figure out, okay, what do I really wants to do that? Like now if you've given in yourselves the venture freedom, now go do what you want to do that can actually make you happy.

You know, someone, one of our listeners, we discuss this. And the person we kind of came up with the new acronym. We instead of fire. I think that the most drill on money people are more like the fine accolades, meaning that financial independence, next endeavor, that people want the opportunity to do something different and to save, you maybe don't have to have the same level of pain and a deprivation.

Maybe you can just say, well, you know, I can save a little bit more now because maybe when i'm forty five, i'm gona want to do something different for ten or fifteen years and that next, that new endeavor is such an exciting thing for people and I think can really be a valuable part of your own personal growth. Like if you ve done the hard work, you've got the money, but now you really can take a change and do something and make yourself feel Better. Be part of an admission driven organization which has the problems perhaps, but just doing something different that you're site about, you know a lot of people bend that.

Come on my program, we'll say to me like I really want to become a financial planner. I'd love to do that. How do I do that? And we have the steps. Yes, it's kind of awesome. Like, hey, no, it's not so much you relaxing, but like IT feels like you could do good, that you could do good in the world.

Helping people like you should mark the .

thing like that one. Ah, you know what? I think I put IT in my book in the great money reset, but IT really is. I think that IT is more of a quantity, so you please use that.

But especially with people living so much longer these days, even the baby boomers return in their sixties, like you said, thirty years, maybe like you, you have a whole second act potentially that you could be .

doing something with yeah and I do think that the engagement, I think that people really discount social engagement. I have a friend who actually stopped ed teaching after teaching for forty years. Four zero oh SHE goes and SHE substitutes and and she's works as a substitute in her system like a couple times a month and he said, yeah, you know it's like my paradise money. I get to hang out with my friends. I get to be with the kids who I love and like on a little like twice a month basis, then how stick?

So dad retired that sixty two, I think, for a couple years or other than he thought he did OK. So got, you know, i'm going to do IT. And he went work at the wine eries. We could get a fifty percent .

is on on the wine. Love that we are guide, by the way, on the show who ended up, he loves tennis and he works for the U. S.

T. A and travels around the country for USA tournaments, like driving professional tennis players from the, from the venue to their hotel. And he gets to go to all the tournaments for free and like, that's an awesome .

job and yeah, I have an idea. You know, there's gap year for Young people going after college. What if there was like the retirement version that you hit fifty and you take a couple of years and you just go travel because you just and other people we've had advisers say before, it's not fun to travel and you're eighty, you know what I mean so like go ahead and get all your traveling things you want. Do you know when you are still out of a Young and yeah why not?

Do you like that? I like that.

I have one more question.

okay? That doesn't like IT now. And that's what cruise.

that's what cruise ships are for duncan. They are going cruise.

They going cruise. There's there's a vike in river crews that goes on right one hundred eighty days .

or something you are watching way too much masterpiece. I know that right now. If you're telling me where the .

biting and a big rips, yeah I know. yeah. okay. Last and obvious, we have as a long time, long term investor, I accumulate substantial capital gains in mag seven stocks, which now dominate my i'm increasingly uncomfortable with the concentration risk my the woman is. How can I baLance tax efficiency with the need to diversify my portfolio, reduce risk? I'm hesitant to let tax considerations dictate my investment decisions, but I also don't want to incur unnecessary tax lib bodies.

This is the kind of question where people want to look at IT from a outcome oriented view, right? Like I don't want to sell. The Price keeps going up, but I do want to know the Price goes down, yes, and obviously we don't know what the Price is going to do.

So you have to make sure that you're making this decision with only what you have now. Don't look back on in the future and and try to regret one way or the other like I shouted done this or I should have not you don't second guess this kind of decision. You just, you do IT.

But this is the kind of question we get all the time from people, especially in these kind of bo. You you have too much in video games, right? Like you won the game. Taxes are part of a playing, but where do you fall on the tax? Tax file verses the dog.

I, I love paying taxes. I love IT. I think that like tax minimization is great.

But like you killed IT on a trade, takes some money off the table. Oh, here's another idea. By the way, I suggested this to josh.

When a video like made of a charge up in a short period of time, I said, why don't you create a charity account? You know, you can do IT at lt. You can do IT at vanguard, and you know what you can do.

You can gift your shares into your charitable trust. Is is a donor advice fun. You can give the shares in there. You can get a tax deduction this year.

You want to give all the money away for years to count, like IT can be like few years in the future, but you can get some of that money off the table, get a tax deduction for that, by the way, and you'll have all your charity giving set up for like a bunch years. And this is especially good if you want to like bunch your deduction. You want to get this all in one year where you're making money.

But generally, if you're not charitable, okay, I get that. And all of people don't have that as part of their plan. Sell a little bit, pay the tax move on twenty three point eight percent is your top racket. I think the worst thing in the world.

right? Yes, IT could be worse. You could be trento harvest losses. But yeah, but I don't think, I think the bigger rep for most people would be. I held on too long and a lot of my games IT disappeared.

Yeah, I I mean, look, I know that and I get that feeling, but you don't look back. You say, you know, sometimes the best decisions are made by accident. You know, I remember I had a client one hundred years ago and I was still in the business and they were selling their texas instrument stocks.

Was nineteen ninety eight, okay, the end of ninety eight. And they want to buy a house in florida. So we sold a bunch of the texas instrument stock, took the game.

And then, you know, for the for nineteen ninety nine, IT looked like the worst decision in the world, because the stock keep marching higher, and then the entire thing collapsed, you know, six months after that. So in eighteen months, this guy felt the agony of defeat, but then had his eyes wide opening that, oh my god, I was the lucky st. Person in the world to sell .

at that level. So in to up you here. But we have a story of someone who came with us. And the whole portfolio was an X, I, V, which was like the volatility enhanced.

Whatever was trading on the vicks and this thing was going crazy, was basically bedding on low volatility to remain forever, right? And they came to us and we said, no, you know, this is this. You cannot have this as your whole portfolio lio.

Any view portfolio like this is day trading vehicle. This is. And so we ve had themselves up because is prudent. And then the etf proceeded to double over the next three months, and they call us and said, what is wrong with you? A week later, I literally went to zero.

That X, I, D done, the whole IT valued and IT wasn't even like a crazy correction of like a ten percent correction. And this hold the how they structured this etf IT blue open one to zero. They kind of went, okay, got IT.

Think of the test harvest.

yeah, right, from gazillions to zero. You know what? And the other thing is sometimes you make a decision and you can just be a print decision that doesn't work out perfectly well.

But you know sometimes you make that decision because you are deciding which is the risk you're willing to absorb, right? Do I want to see a drop in half? Or am I gonna be sad if I missed the next fifty percent higher? And that's a good question to ask yourself.

Like and and you don't have to sell everything, but you can take pieces of IT and sell IT you know CEO who register and say, you know, we are we talk about this oh so one, so you know this one selling so much, oh, well, this is terrible. David. Sales, selling gold.

Sax stuck. He must not feel good about IT. You know what he's doing. He's being prudent. He says, I have an enormous amount of my wealth in this one company. I am selling some of IT, and they do IT every single year, every sweet executive dos.

You don't you can sell things you don't have to submit and you can still let some of IT ride. It's funny. Mk and I were talking this week every time IT looks like bitcoin is setting up for a new board market over the past out of five years micon, I will have the conversation. okay? What level would bitcoin have to get to for you to like take a big chunk off the table and and we we put like our targets and usually the the goal post move as become keeps going up and we just don't up selling.

But this time we are talking look right if bitcoin hits like a hundred thousand and if we get like we have to take some off the table here, we're going to sell and then it's like you have but what if IT goes from one hundred, one hundred and fifty and it's like you have to be OK with that. That's the thing. You have to be OK with that and you have to know what you're going to do with the money in terms of rebalancing or using IT for something potentially, but you have to be OK with the fact that happens.

Yeah and whatever your decision is, don't look back. It's not worth IT. It's not worth your time and the energy just like move on. There's always something new and exciting that's happening and it's probably a Better use of your time than looking back with what your regrets are.

That really resonates with me right now because I saw my text two thirty and it's, you know, like a two sixties or something now. So you made money.

right? I did. So right? You are independently wealthy.

So that's fine. Yeah, exactly.

I know that you're do. This is actually your offer job. This .

is next .

wait.

the twenty seven year old in the fit with the in artistic .

career who hit IT big. Yeah, I got IT.

jill. You're all over the place where we're going to find you in the next week. C, B, S, the compound, your podcast where.

yes, yes, yes. H, jill on money is the podcast C B S mornings or cbs news dot com or the compound or hanging out with them then i'm using one of your charts in a segment tomorrow. I hope .

i'm money next week. Yeah so he's the best. All right.

Our email, you you asked the compound, you gmail that come. We appreciate other emails. Thanks everyone for tuning and live.

We appreciate. We always love having jail here. See next time.

Thanks everyone.

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ask the compound. All opinions expressed by ben carson, duncan hill and any of their guests are solely their own opinions and do not reflect the opinion of red holds well management. This podcast is for informational purposes only and should not be relied upon for any investment decisions. Clients of redhot ds wealth management may maintain positions in the security discussed in this podcast.