MBW 946: Slow and Steady - M4 MacBook Pro, Apple Q424, Pixelmator
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It's time for mac break weekly, everybody's in the house, alex linny handy and ocho jis snow. Of course, apple released its quarterly results. Jes got the color charts to explain, was that a good quarter or not will talk about a big apple acquisition could be good news, could be bad news for fans.

And then, of course, finally, the new macbook pro is announced. We will talk about speed and fees, all that coming up next of great weekly. Podcasts you love .

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people you trust.

This is to IT.

This is MC break weekly, episode nine hundred forty six, recorded november fifth twenty twenty four, slow and steady. It's time for mac break weekly, the show where we cover the latest news from apple. The eighteen is in the house alex linz, I from office hours duck global. Good morning, alex.

hello. You survive .

the time change. You survived monday night football and luck with .

election day. I vote is so long ago that I forgot, I forgot what I vote ted on my mail.

It's nice as a luxury also with a andy and a co from W G, B. H. boston. He is in greater new england, didn't see you enter .

the eighteen and can be holland mad matt murdock.

sure you can be you.

He look like, yes, fun, I suppose the other is.

And also here.

a man whose fingers are every color of the rainbow because he's been making charts. Jason snow, six colors. And I think .

you'll find you've conflated the the eight teams hawing mad murdoch with marvels daredevils h. murdoch. And that they are different people, you know, no prize for you.

I believe that you you're not familiar with a new d one theory in which I, between the eighteen universe and the dirt of the universe, I believe he has the best of both world tea.

I I go on that plays like clubs.

I team .

but it's the x man it's the x team for the something .

like that in the store and I said, oh, spider man said.

i'm which one pool? Yeah.

dead pool is a little spider man with yeah I thought .

a little spider man I wasn't pay that much attention. Hello, everybody, welcome. The week after the week, the apple, when we last met, they had released the mini and the .

time back.

I beck and now and and then that day, the next day they came out with the the mac books. I didn't even, I even notice. I like thursday and what they do anything. Thursday was their annual.

I I was of the opposite. IT was like, I was kind of out of sorts on thursday when there is no new hardware announce like, well, I refreshing this page for and then .

there was nothing friday, right? I didn't miss anything that okay.

so they rested.

So did you get do you have does anybody have anybody, not anybody particular choices now have a mac book pro or a mac mini to hand?

Well, they don't come out to friday.

So oh, and of course the embargo lifts tomorrow or something like that. So we wouldn't make you talk about IT or anything violating your the spirit but say the laptop view the .

this gets back to apples launch um there is a lot of discussion near the end of the week like you should apple keepon doing this kind of launch thing. And twenty three million views on youtube, twenty three million views on youtube. And they owned techmeme for three days.

You know like like .

this like was like for three days as all all that was on techmeme um at the top. So if you onder ing if you're signa y more of this, my guesses.

Yes, sorry. Let me turn off the magical allows. Yeah, twenty three million views and six days is pretty good. This is the a macbook pro announcement and they got .

to be the number one text story, three days running.

which is smart I think a but so maybe there's a vote for this. This is a good and as as a reporter is probably easier for .

everybody yeah once a day yeah siler yeah like especially when like those of us who like only get like one at bat like per day or whatever, it's like OK. So there's an announcement with three different, three different products. All of them are kinds interesting.

None of them are a blockbuster. Which one do we sort of give short trip to? In which one do we declare? I'm going to spend most of my work count and most my attention on this.

So it's nice that we can talk about things like, hey, wow, look, there is now sixteen gigs of of six of a system memory crossing tire liner. Hey, look, finally, for the first time, we've got that new the glory in display on the macbook pro like all these little details that kind of like maybe would not have born a great mention. And yeah, it's we don't need a big circus for every single event.

I think that is great when they do IT for something like apple intelligence, where they really do have to tell a major story and lay the ground and lay expectations correctly. But when it's like yet, these are three really the back, this new back money is really nice. Hey, well, this new process of the family is coming to the macbook pro. That's a real pic boost forward. It's nice to be able to space these things out and not treated as though we need to roll out all the dogs opponent is just for a simple but interesting neistat tic.

I didn't find myself by the third one. Every time that the person camp to talk about apple intelligence was like, god can skip over that.

Somebody who did a lot of work was the woman who has to. Every single video has a lengthy apple intelligence demo. If you were not sure if apple was pushing apple intelligence enough.

B boy.

were they by the third one, I was like, okay, no, I I just skip over this and that was nice. Not, I have to sit through.

So the chat room wants to know, like, how many mac .

mini did I bought any of? I know and I have a lot of money I have translated. I mean, he hasn't found a client to buy .

IT for yeah there has .

to be a reason for IT because I mean, I I know I sound like I just buy hardware willing arly, but it's usually connected to a job so so I I don't have know I think we are looking at um actually i'm potentially gna uh do something where we have just turn one of them in to an encoder which looks interesting to me um but and I probably will end up getting one of the the base units to do some testing.

But I have these one and m two mac mini and they are super fast and I know for what I and hear. The thing is I don't I use them. I use them sparing. I mean, I use them um for different things and they all do what they do as fast as I can imagine them doing them. And so it's not really in I A max studio, which has a lot more I O so I I don't know you know right now i'm trying to figure out where I would put IT or what I would use IT for, but that seems I have a good excuse for apply by one.

I think this is the quickest i've ever felt like I bought the room. I bought the mac, many with the m four pro in the next day and four max, I mean, immediately IT was a surprise, but that's twenty four hours I am left with.

I know it's going to be another six months, but I have been kind the the mines in the mac proser this fast. Macbook proser this fast? I really want to see yeah studios and prose.

You know, I know I think it's gonna complete. I think that I do think that the chAllenge apple has is the problem that i'm having is that the hardware is out running the software in the sense that there is not many applications. If you're not doing three, if you're not doing some heavy, heavy lifting, there's not many applications that give you a reason to buy a mac is just these these have jumped so far forward.

That um numbers is going as fast as that needs to go. And and many of the games that you can buy are going almost as fast. Sure, they don't have retracing, but most i'm gna note .

saying the only have hard words.

Watch the video .

feed that was twice that alex used air quotes around.

It's like this, a lot of things that are hard to render when they say we have four x anti alias scene with global lumination. You have my undivided attention. No rice. Okay, we've been doing that for twenty years. So um I mean so alex fine.

alex makes a good point that um a lot of people i've seen complaining about, I go they still compare this stuff to tell and one but they also compared to the and one I think this is one of the reasons why first of apple silicon is so good that even if you have an m one, you probably don't actually need to buy them for anything because it's that good like the apple silicon era is so strong.

Um and then the second thing is we computer nerds over assume how often people replace their mac hardware are and there is still I one of the reasons apple keeps comparing things stay until it's not just to make apple silicon look good. Although IT does do that, it's because they know how many people are still on intel max. And so they're still trying to sell them on coming over to p silicon like right well, you waited to till him for now, is the time right? But but they know IT because there i've heard from a lot of people like or yeah, i'm still using a imac from twenty eighteen or i'm still using a macbook pro from twenty sixteen. And like I don't live like that because i'm a tech or in a tech journalist. But a lot of people like, uh, computers, a big expense of purchase and they make one and then they use that thing for eight years and they are still they only to be convinced .

ed and I I may have traveling a lot again so I may actually get a new mac pro at some mac book pro some point, but I haven't older one. I was like last intel mac, macbook and um I had to render something on site. I had to event last weekend I to render something I just open to the laptop and open up motion IT was IT was this uh, counter clock but i'd done all the three uh, countdown clock's things inside emotion and IT runs in about four five minutes on my max studio and I fired, oh, we'll take fifteen or twenty minutes.

I was two hours IT was two hours like IT was like, not IT was not like a little slower IT was unusable like I was like, well, having live with what I have, I mean, was a minor change but I was like, I fired all just throw the no can do that so so I think that it's IT is drum. I mean, especially now that you're getting to use m tools, three and four s and in five, I guess next year, the intel machines are I mean, what I try to explain to people, you have no idea what's on the other side of just any upgrade at this point. Yeah I was surprised to look at like when things new ones come out, I always go look at the like walmart no end in costco like how they dropped right now.

So the m two mac mines are still like twenty dollars less than the new ones. So, oh yes. So we go there .

with one of the Price guns onest.

Ly, if you've got a laptop, I know people, people have different buying philosophe, right? And some people are like, well, I am going to buy a nice one and then use IT for a long time rather than buying a less nice one and using for the and I think that's a valid way to go. I will say though that you could get for nine ninety nine, you can get m two macbook career today.

That would also completely blow away you're little laptop whatever IT is. But yes, I I also understand that maybe you wanted macpro. The screen is amazing on the macbook pro. I love the macbook air, but like there are lots of reasons to get a maco pro. And yeah, you're probably going to be more comfortable about using .

that for the next day years. And for me, is that like now that if I have to go out, actually do work in the field, then I need I will actually use up the computer of of of how far I can go, specially because i've learned how to make motion a crunch, my mac or any of them. So so that that's been, and that was hard for a long time.

So I did purchase a mac mini, held off as long as I could.

A big one, the little like the .

biggest one I could get.

Wow, that's a lot of, that's a lot. Five thousand dollars like forty?

No, no. Wa, maybe I didn't get. I mean, that was twenty seven, ninety .

nine. Go all the hard drive.

No, I got two terabits. I got a term, but I got, no, I didn't do that. I got sixty four gigs.

I got the, yeah, get the one in the bottom below the fold. The, the. And then I have created the chip.

So I got the m4 pro with fourteen CPU twenty gp。 S. I got sixty four a maxed out the memory, sixty four gigs. I got two terabits. That's pretty max that came at twenty seven nine, and that's pretty max. I mean, they don't think I could have done, has got four more terrible tes and the S I get set up to forty five ninety nine, but I figured to with thirty five and two terrible tes and turn on probably, okay.

Know the thing is, with underworld five, I might be tempted to go back to one terrible, or definitely not more than two terribles like you got because the problem with thera four was that I did max out at half the speed of the internal drive of the max studio at least. And so but theoretically um you should be able to get a RAID systems now that are running as fast as well. Ming, technically um they could be running as much as fifteen gigs a second, I think that are party more like eight to but that twice the speed of the five gig per second that the max studio original max studio runs.

And there's another point which is that the store in sekou, I don't know that happened earlier, but will let you install large applications to external drives. So I sudenly to put everything on that internal drive. I don't find .

that I I don't applications really take up all the space for me as camera iles. Yeah, that's well and that doesn't matter.

You could put extra well.

you couldn't. I couldn't before because IT wasn't fast enough. Like I oh yes, I K raw files from a black magic camera and throw them onto a external drive.

I can't edit IT in forests. I think I have to make build proxies and there's a whole match issues with that. And so so the um so you being able to have an external drive system that can do as much as ten tera bites a second.

When is important for video editors? Again, it's not for everybody. I mean, there a lot of people, but that is not gonna ver be a problem. But for if you're a big part of apples market, our video professionals and being able to take their raw files from their cameras and be able to edit them without having to go into proxy mode is useful. Here's the .

settings in the APP store download and to started large apps bigger than a gig by to a separate desk. And then you can choose the desk. I don't know, I think that's good for you know, that's for games is what that's for because they tend to be four, five, six gig bites. This fell, I think, is almost five gigabits. So so see.

this turns to I know that there has been a lot of talk about of becoming a gaming platform.

Yes, somebody that out right .

there was .

an article that says.

and I was finally, finally apple roses of a petition, the x box.

Yeah no.

it's like it's nice that like tripoli games, it's nice that the it's not like the most demanding and most graphically chAllenging game on the trip. Let market on pcs is coming to mac next year. But if you think that people are going to be buying a mac instead of an xbox, something that is so if you love death.

stranding a your set man or I get pox coming.

I mean that if they the problem is that i'm sure they're pouring IT in a clumpy way over to the mac.

And nia, if you wrote these games, if you actually went through the trouble, and I personally think apple should pay someone to go through the trouble to do this and wrote IT to and went through the trouble of two or three years of actually optimizing for the hardware, optimizing for the Operating system and taking full advantage of IT, you probably find that the games run three, four times faster than an x box. My levels very much Better quality, but you'd have to optimize everything to do that. And that would take a lot of money and a lot to be tens of millions of dollars to do that.

And and it's really it's really only worth IT if they're going to be putting investment in gaming. IT really is only worth that if they are putting the money in places going to create more APP store transactions because that still is the lion share of the money that they make from the APP store like none games is the largest segment, but also inapt transactions from those games.

So like it's a prestige thing and it's certainly nice to have that in their portfolio if they have, again, really good like tripoli games ready. But really if they're gona make sure if they are going to really be planting seats for later harvest, they're gonna to make sure that whatever whichever ver one has the most monkey like, press the button, get a banana pellet feedback loop for in that purchases. That's the kind of stuff I going to want to put money into.

Have those on the ipad, the iphone, I me that's it's the part majority of games .

on the iphone banana S.

I think gets back to apple needs a reason. I mean, they've gotten they built such powerful hardware that they need a reason for people to buy that hardware. And games are a big reason to buy faster hardware. Gamers are the ones that have the fastest graphics cards. You the most that they were.

they build their own system.

gaming gamers. And so yes, so the thing is, is that I think that beyond in that purchases, but I do think I agree with andy that are important. I think that there is a push for I think what apple is to do is get people to put things on their computers.

I mean, is the problem of the ipad. There's nothing on my ipad. I two ipad pro.

I'm not I haven't brought the newest one. why? Because there is nothing that is going to run any faster.

My ipad. Then what is there right now? And so that's the you know that's the chAllenge. I think that apple needs to fine more and that that's where video comes into play. That's where um you know three d comes into play. That's where um heavy scientific no calculations and games those are is not many other things that need that kind of hardware.

So good. I mean, girandoles sis, very weird. And I think we've said this before, I really admire marker and as a journalist to god sources and his reporting about apple future stuff is sometimes they put him on the spot. They asked him to be a pond .

and I I he does not want yeah complete ponder try .

and and I think misguided because he sort like go apple can make the thing and do a games thing and we anybody who has lived five years, let alone twenty five years, of apple trying to do games knows that apple does not understand games at all. And any gaming that apple is successful with, its accidental.

And in fact, you could argue maybe it's best if its accidental, because if apple tries, IT fails, but if they don't try, they somehow, sometimes succeed anyway, despite themselves. But that all said, I will say this, apple's experimenting with their game porting tool kit, stuff that they have been doing for the last couple of years, just to me, that they are making an effort to basically make IT easy for people who are building PC games to get them to run on apple's platforms. And if they keep at IT, if you look at some of the other groups that are just like rand of open source groups out there, like the people who are trying to get gay, a PC games running on, I saw he linux right, that I think that there is a path forward.

But again, it's not apple spending money on titles and getting like three titles that are tripoli from four years ago to run on their platforms. I think it's that if they keep pushing forward with a gaming tool kit to the point where they can say, look, if you're building a windows game, you can also sell IT on a mac. Here is the sales figures you will get.

You will get an incremental five percent, ten percent revenue boost. And we've made the tools so easy that there's almost nothing you need to do. If they could do that, I think that you could get in a scary where mac gaming is essentially PC gaming.

And other than I know at the high and we've got, uh, high in graphic cards and stuff, it's never going to be that right. But IT will be compatibility on steam and in the mac APP store and other places that they want to do IT. And I do think that that's a smart gaming strategy for them because it's not hands off, but it's literally we're going to push our platform up to be equivalent to the work you have to do for windows and no more extra work than that.

And then you you do you we're just making IT that you can be on our platform without a lot of effort. And that's similar to street to steam doing IT with the steam deck right where where they it's it's not windows, but theyd built a compatibility later that lets you run those windows ames on the steam. It's a similar kind of thing so that I find encouraging because it's not apple's usual game nonsense .

is IT is easy to right to metal as directors?

I don't know actually I don't know that is easy. I do to actually think that for dollar.

for dollar from a Anthony neil cent project reds blog says that their version of sir punk cyberpunk twenty seventy seven will not be available on older intel max, will require apple silicon and will, quote, take full advances of apple silicon advanced technologies of medal. Including metal fx, the upscaling that is the equivalent of D L S S. I think the important .

tool kid is doing a lot of translation stuff. Where are the translating your windows stuff into apple stuff instead? And that because of apple silicon, they have the ability to have the pretty good.

And I mean, what apple says is you can just click a butter. You need to do a little bit performance work. But again, if the amount work you need to do is less than the extra revenue you're gna get for being on another platform, then that makes sense for game .

developers. Think, I don't know, is easier. But I do think that the dollar for dollar, the new mac, like enforce and so on so forth at the same Price would probably outperform a PC doing the same thing.

You know, like, you know, if you the GPU CPU and band and memory band with is a big deal when IT comes to texture, a maps over sampling, lots of frame rates. All those things are things that IT IT is actually probably capable of doing Better dollar for dollar. You can try build a PC .

that's Better but not necessary cesspool ily most important thing, a lot of the reasons why the most games, the most popular games is because they are designed to run on a piece of spit with a diodati mean, it's there. You can build a five hundred hundred PC that couldn't run a lot of the most popular, but the most popular like team games out there. And that is the whole reason why they became a popular team game. The problem is that it's not it's not something that is on developers minds that we each gossip if we really want to seized able by the horns were onna have to target back of, my goodness, we are leaving bunch of money on the table. I think I mean, agree with what Jason missing.

I think that's very, very smart that if apple is doing something very smart by basically trying to say that we are not gna fund you fund your game studio two million dollars to put all of your games to our platform, we're not going to even try to make a cuddle you and and wine and dine you and convince you that you should be uh giving mac the mac topic platform day and date with all other platforms. What apple can say is that whatever amount of effort you put into porting your game over to the mac with our tools that we've given you, it's going to be outstripped by the amount of money that you're going to make by selling that on the mac platform. So if I think that's a very, very sensible thing to do IT, if apple, if apple decided to have a new like games are whose entire job was to start games studios to invest in ea and making sure that madam is perfect for the mac, I would think that that's kind of a fuzzy and or at least not the most efficient way they could be spending their money. But the by creating that the windows, that windows, a translation layer that was brilliant stuff for them to do, this is exactly what they should be doing. And I hope that pays off .

from what is apple's natural market for the macintosh. Mean, they have kind of given up on prose a little bit right only at the super high end.

and they never had gaming. I am part of that this ecosystem. Part of the reason that the mac has been so successful, more successful than it's ever been in a testy is because of the success of apple's other products that you start with the ipod and certainly with the iphone.

And you ve got this thing where people are exposed to the apple brand and they like IT. And then apple says, well, you know, it's Better with a mac than a PC, so maybe you should get a mac and it's simpler and it's nicer. And you so some of IT is nicest and luxury and and there's some of that IT just works quality to IT as well.

And it's the industrial design in the software, the ecosystem. And there's a love of stuff I play, but I do think that apple has built the mac to the size IT is based on. You know it's just it's nice to have an iphone in a mac and have more work together .

ah and I think that for individual content creators, uh, it's still pretty popular. Yes yeah and they I think that apple, yeah no, even when we work with creators and we see some species, I mean, it's definitely the handful of them, but it's pretty it's a pretty max centric and iphone centric world. You know there um the um there are people who once they start building a system, they read a bunch of books and they get a bunch pcs to do the read.

And so for but the reality is, is that especially if if you do in premier pcs bi, I I don't think premier runs very well to um and but you have A A very large contingent that are using final cut and and resolve you know and and I think that those are um and so I think that in that world that and I think it's leaning to back. I think apple did fall behind for a while like the until I think was really holding them back. I think that a lot of times we felt like in the you know the twenty tens that you could get more performance out of a PC. But there's a lot of individual artists who are don't want to deal with pcs, you know. So I think that there is a big part of apples market are people who are in spaces that are less than five people or individuals and they just don't want to do the the tech support that's required on a PC that is different than a mac, you know um it's not that it's imac is has no viruses, but IT is easier to administer.

Agree with you and I agree with that, Jason. I would say it's ecosystem and inertia because once you go back, you is just agreeing with you, alex, you just stick with IT right right? Go the other direction.

I think that I think that for me, the problem is I get a PC and if I don't, I don't have the enterprise version on that PC the first time IT updates and breaks things I like. I can't use this for production, the media to go. I A less, I have somebody else to manage this for me.

I don't want to deal with that personally. So I think I have PC sitting in my system right now, but I I don't put them in in anything that I deal with on a data day basis. There are kind of a little pieces of glue and they're usually really tiny ones or a really big one that i'm using from real. But having them everywhere means that i'd have to deal with updates all the time and that um is stressful in production.

I will mention because I waited IT to the end of the day and made A B to ordered no every twenty asses the delivery data. Neto and our youtube says he ordered his back and it's coming the nineteen. So I think the eighth might only be for certain models in stock kind of thing. There are do you think these are real? These benchMarks, they usually real, they usually matched the finals.

There's somebody who's running bench. So so I think the way that works as if you don't pay for geek bench, things get up bloated with and and and like, you would have to pay and people don't pay or people don't know what they are doing or people get access and they do know what they are doing. But we've seen this for a while now that some devices get out there in the field and those geek bench numbers get uploaded to the geek bench browser. And so generally, I think they have been proven to be right.

Well, in that case, if you bought a macbook pro with the max, you should be pretty darn happy. This is the highest, what was somebody said, the highest number on a geek bench single contest ever in a remarkable performance and .

pretty good on .

the multiple in the ultra. And only two maxes, two maxes make an ultra.

Think you mind. This is not running on like a desktop PC with a thousand White power supply. This is running on mobile computer that's pretty oppressive and and you .

look at the memory through put again, those are the kind of things that when you're talking about games and video and three uh the the memory through put on these systems outrageous like you know outrageous um bus system.

Yeah so good on you if you got yourself one I would love to hear from anybody nobody y's got yeah I guess it's .

pretty good in the pro. We were saying this last week because there was something we saw in the mac many years. The pro seems to be taken because I am three.

The max took a big leap and the pro just kind of got was incremental. But the the the pro this time took a huge leap. The project that middle chip that .

was and I talked I think I can .

say that I talked to some people all without getting into details if you about this but I talk you know I talked to some people who do chip stuff at apple um and not behind the scenes just in a briefing and they seemed really excited about that number that the memory band with in the m three or m four pro is seventy five percent more than IT wasn't the end three pro that is a that is a number that doesn't usually go up by that amount in one ship generation.

But I do think it's partially because the m three pro was a half step, whether the m3 max was a big step。 And this time, what we're seeing is they've all taken a little half step forward, but that m three pro to m four pro has taken the the big step. And that's why um even some of those preliminary numbers and just looking at the specks, uh those the magnesian eco pro, if you go up from the base chip to the pro chip, it's substantial.

Now obviously the max you're getting double the GPU cores, right? Like there's oh if you if you do stuff that GPU bound, you should get the max right because it's it's so many more GPU cres, then the pro, it's not even it's not even close. It's it's a no brainer. But if you're just kind of a regular person who's not going to spend the extra money on that, the pro is really you know looking like it's going to be a huge step forward from wherever you're coming you and want him to or intel.

let's take a little break there. Is this quite a bit of stuff to talk about? You're watch a mac break weekly.

The the premier show for macos users with Jason nell, andy anode, alex linz y are showed. They brought you by the vw E A M. I'm thinking every time I talk about theme that there are people listening who really.

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it's a me.

me. Quarterly revenue by category iphone less than half this quarter. Yeah.

you know I look, don't worry, next quarter it'll be more than half because of that goes way up. I just you know this is basically what the numbers have been, all long half of apple's revenue roughly as the iphone and then these days, a quarter of IT as of the services grow. And then whereabouts c and ipad or you know in just below ten and that adds up to one hundred. So yeah, that's that's how the way to think about is rebels mac and ipad are about the same. And then there's a quarter services and half the rebels mac and ipad share the other quarter that isn't.

Now I do notice that, that a couple of years ago, q for revenue was like much, much higher. Why is revenue diminishing? And q four is the big is the big revenue quarter, right? no. Q one is the this .

is a record. This is a record fourth th quarter for apple oh according, but it's a record they have kind of reached a new platow ms revenue.

So there there .

IT is A Q four record, slightly up from last year, which was presumably A A Q four record because I knew that a lot.

There's also an anomaly this quarter because um remember that there are early september uh the courts, E U. Court decided that yeah you do or twelve that's for the thirty billion dollars .

that doesn't go to revenue, but IT goes to the profit line profile million. I have been also tell you we're showing when we are talking about that was was mac revenue not .

total level or revenue? 哦， okay.

that's why I was good food. The mac and the mac hit a real high uh, twenty twenty one without a soiled on and the pandemic and has come off of that high a little bit to a little bit. It's one of the rare apple products that doesn't kind of hit a platter and stay there.

But I think it's because I was so such a huge number of max sold during the the pandemic and also the apple silicon on transition that is IT was hard for them to maintain that level of sales. But they have come down to A A plata that is higher than they were when before the pandemic a little bit, but it's still in the biggest mac market ever, essentially, but not the bigger sales. Those were in like twenty one.

basically continued rise in the services revenue and .

down a little bit. Its rise was down a little bit, but IT continues to ride double .

digits for twelve percent yeah sniff at .

double digital growth anywhere and the service is just keep going up. Whereabouts stalled t though it's that's an interesting one is that the wearables home accessories is category, which is primarily driven by airports and apple watch. It's just kind of flat.

Used to be IT, was a really expanded and was a reliable growth source for a while, and it's reached this point worth twenty five percent of bubb's revenue. And now it's just kind of sitting there. So I don't know the reasoning is that flaking up a watch sales is that they didn't update their podds for a while. I guess we'll see certainly not the vision pro. So I guess we'll .

see vision pro is in there, but probably doesn't make .

much of a difference.

Can imagine that where able revenue down three percent, here's the total revenue, and that does look good. Yeah a good q 4。 It's again.

we're expecting I think they're guide to to essentially a record um q one holiday quarter, at least Better than last year's holiday quarter, which wasn't quite a record um which is what all street always want to hear about. What's next?

I do note that you're lying. Your averages is is pretty flat. It's not like revenue.

This is what yeah that you know a plant toe uh big geography uh fan ah that's that's what happens and it's actually happened history. Ally apple goes through these moments where they have inflationary growth and then they sit there for two, three, four years at that level. Now the bad news is, if you are a wall street type, you wanted to keep going up.

The good news is they don't give IT back that. I think one of the interesting things about apple building its business is they have these moments of growth and they don't hand IT back like the next year. It's still up a little bit and then the next year may be receives a little and then the next year, it's sort of flat.

And then eventually what you want is that, you know, year five or six IT IT. Does the big up take again and then and then finds its way. What you don't know, because time, success, like we saw with the mac a little bit and twenty one is nice.

But what you want is we're the tide is onna rise and then it's days at that new tide level. That's a that's a really nice thing for their business. So yes, from a walsh perspective, their business is kind of flat. But I would say for me, what's the health of the business perspective? They had huge growth.

whatever three years ago that they've entirely held. They have built a plat toe near the near the top amount of rst like the started I started to a pax to really think about. So it's in the factor that they play told is in growth is is something but it's an enormous so on the .

money like being profit in the forth quarter is fourteen point seven billion dollars. This is interesting. The gross margin is almost fifty percent margin. I mean, they've really are extracting every penny and everything they sell.

services margin. And I I think I have a chat to the extent services margin is a lot more than product margin. But yes, apple is a very high margin because IT always has been, but it's never been more than IT is now because you've got in addition to their high margin hardware, they've got the impossibly .

high margin services business.

Yeah, yeah, stop was down like a point in half or something when the market reopened the next day. But that's not if if if there are a lot of reports about how investors were disappointed. It's for the usual of reason, not because they're not doing really well, not because they're you not hugely profit, but because they didn't beat the estimates that these analysts had for them, uh, for that quarter. Uh, and this is me if things is just a it's just a show of faith from investors and that wage and webs depending on depending on the month. So who cares?

Year over your growth? Very good in china and europe. In the middle east, amErica is a little bit down, yeah. But again.

they're coming up that high when you look at at this way, that looks like there's a big thing in a plunge. But again, that's a growth rate. So they had a big growth rate and now there's kind of like in this flat period.

Yeah, they're an public investor, which i'm not you not allowed to be, but by myself because that would give me again i've never i've never invest napped, but I know a lot of people who follow this stuff to what I would say is the question is when is that next growth spurt coming if IT is and and i'm sure that's what all three is focused on, is let's the next thing and we know that their reports and that apple has even kind of hinted that big plans in the iphone product lining up. Mark erman said, like a folding phone and a super thin phone that might come next year. And they're trying, I think it's very clear like they want that next iphone super cycle where there's a really new iphone that kicks them into a higher gear and we'll see if they can.

That seems less and less likely to me.

I know right, but I would have said that before the last one too. I honestly, I want to set up before the last one. And IT is a question, is that all driven by new hardware? Or is IT also that the iphone punishment cycle just goes like that.

whether hoping apple intelligence would be a big drive and that I known.

I don't know that a year basically for them to know if apple until they they acknowledge that apple intelligence isn't going to sell a lot of iphones today, but they're hoping that IT will sell a lot of iphones over the course of the next year or two.

That that's by the q and a during these is so interesting because IT gives you reflection of what our analysts really interested and what are they really worried about and what are they kind of betting apple's future on. For instance, in recent earning calls, apple would have to answer a bunch of questions about china because they're getting unprecedented amount of competition from railway and other chinese local brands.

I think this time they didn't get any answers whatsoever. I help that their numbers were already up. They seemed to be battling that, that problem very, very well.

But so many the questions were about can you give us any color and identification about how apple intelligence is going to is going to affect. The future purchases of of the iphone. There are also questions about the differentiation now between the iphone sixteen pro and the iphone sixteen.

And are you learning him or you're learning anything about h where people's level of interesting uh and of course, they didn't have a lot to say of substance about IT, but mainly repeating the, to be honest, accurate thing worth the same. We're rolling the sound in stages. We don't expect any real of interest because of that. But we are gonna have a product that is not going to be A I complete another couple years so that we're not going to we don't have to really enter that for now.

And it's not just functional. I mean, those of us in the U. S. Especially and in the english speak world, a can focus on the fact that apple intelligence, right, like first way IT was eleven one or eighteen one.

Second way will be twenty two, which will be up by the end of the year. And then there's going to be an eighteen three and eight four and one thousand five. And this is a whole year long thing for features.

But the other thing to keep in mind is eighteen. One is U. S.

English only eighteen two ads. Canada, australia, new zealand, th, africa and U. K. english. And they are they're saying that next spring, they're going to add a bunch about the languages which will bring IT in to, I think, china and the eu and some other places.

So it's not just a because apples, the global company in the iphone of global product, this isn't just A A feature functionality rollout. It's it's A A region by region rollout, which is not right like where IT were so prime to apple just makes IT available everywhere on day one, which they didn't use to do. But they this is very tim cook right now.

They've make enough and they are everywhere immediately, not the vision pro, but like the products that matter, are everywhere, but not up intelligence. And that means that the iphone role that now is kind of original ized, at least for this one selling point, so that that is a total change. And they they acknowledged in as as somebody who does a transcript of IT, which means that I need to sit there and listen to every word that comes out of IT.

Even though I use, I use an AI transcription. I have to verify IT because there are plenty mistakes in that AI transcription. I said they're and listen to IT, and they spend a lot of time saying, you know, it's gonna take time and then wall street to understand apple intelligence, they think is gonna a growth driver for them. But it's not gonna be like slip in the switch is just is so .

so many other questions were about apple intelligence, including how I think that was the second time in the world they got a question of how um if they're gonna running a lot of their models on apple silicon in their own servers, like how is gona fect capital? Capital is like that.

And once again, they said, well, hard to a little bit of a shammy duck saying that, well, the thing is like we don't it's not like we buy a computer and that's what we runs have gone. We do stuff that we own. We do stuff that we basically buy computer from.

So it's hard to say. However, we don't really think that is going. We've already been spending for the past three years. We don't feel as though this going to be a big burst that's going affect our bottom mine in the next several quarters .

plus their secret sources that they're running on device, which means it's your electric bill because stead of their electric bill, which is brilliant, actually the distributed computing thing where they've got the chips that can run a lot of these models just on device. And so that that is a fact. They also said, I know if you cut this one, andy, people were like, so apple, intel gent, that looks like really hard.

This one I love, those analysts looks really hard. Are you going to to spend even more money on our indeed, to make this heart up? And the responses like, again, they didn't say this way.

The basis is like, yeah but you know we killed the car and um all of that money that we spend on that is going to go into this. Essentially, they're like there are the projects that we were taking. We're taking .

clear that was .

the answer is like, look, we spend a lot of money on a lot of research in the car project .

and a lot of that just going on free go, alex, this this is what i'm going to really miss about luca as the CFO. He has a way of saying, yeah, we feel as though we gave you those numbers already and the answer to that question, and there's a little bit of that, I don't want you to feel like a piece of garbage right now, but they would not be an appropriate of you feel like a piece of garbage for asking .

such a stupid quest. But luca gives and look at takes also. Sometimes the analysts will say, look at, I noticed, for example, this happens. I think last quarter, I noticed that your margins are at an all time high. And lucas response was like, yes, I am so glad you notice that they are right like gold star for you analyst job.

So look at .

my .

three of CFO is getting turned IT. As we said, I think a few weeks ago, he's turned into a pumpkin. He he like gets an office and he gets to focus one thing.

It's like the semi retirement thing we talked about, where they want to hold on to their exact and not just let them go straight to the golf course every day, only three days a week or something. So look at my three. This is his last time on the call. I'm sure that he is trained his replacement well to do a similar thing with gold stars and occasional, uh, shaking of the finger, wagging of the finger for bad questions. Hard.

the hard as apples. Number one, uh, hard and simple are apples, two big motes, thank you. That they do things that are hard and they do things that they make things that work complex, simple.

And I think that they are doing both of those with apple intelligence to some degree, you know like that to the level that they're successful of those two things. Um they it'll be a good business for them, but I think that you know I it'll be really interest to see how much they leverage. They have the advantage of built in the OS and build in in the hardware. Um and there are obviously other people doing A I solutions on chip to distribute some of that out to the computers.

Although it's going to be really interesting to see, I think that we're gonna up seeing cow com uh capital late to ARM because, uh, there's got to be a bunch of people out there telling quark like you're going to set the whole industry back five years other than apple, if you don't like figure this out because I don't know you if you're tracking if you guys are watching that intently. But but ARM cancelled their agreement with yeah because like I was kind of like they can take you to court but there is there is this legal way without a court saying, hey, we're not going to let you do this anymore um it's hard to get out of bit because it's in the contract. They can just give them sixty days notice.

And so so it's going to be really interested in to see how that goes. But um but assuming that that gets itself sorted out, apple, I think still has a pretty big advantage because of the vertical nature and the apple keeps on leaning into that. Now we're going to keep on building vertical systems because that's what they're good at is not they're not good at uh, hetty genius systems is just not not their nature.

So any other color from the earnings call you want to add or should .

we not much, they did all all. What I wanted to say was that there were a couple of interesting hard questions that they got. One being that, okay, basically, there is one candidate who might be elected who wants to tear off the crap out of every industry. And as a company that has to import stuff from out united states, are you worried or planning about that? And tim, like almost explicit, said, yeah, I do not take a dive on that one.

yes. Yeah, no. He had two questions where tim was basically like, no, not can you and one of them was, if trump s does tariff s because I also like, it's easy, zero. Well, trump talk about tariffs.

So what if? And and you know what tim cooks not going to say is, you know, we did four years with that guy, and we brought him to know we and we managed them, right? Like we managed him and we made IT work.

And if I need to do that again, i'll do that again. But he's not going to say that out loud. But we know what happened when trump was president last time is tim cook showed up at the White house and he took trump to A A A mac pro factory and they make our facility .

for your for P R thing because at the same time.

like there's a terf story, but also there's also the apple is one of our great american companies stories and that requires diplomacy and tim cook is like a four years ago, they said he is a master diplomacy with china and with the White house, and like he has to deal with this stuff. I also want to mention the other one with somebody asked, what about the D O J. And google and all that money you get from google? And his response was like, i'll save that for another day okay?

Which is a big, little big deal because of they lose eighteen billion dollars in services. Yeah, maybe services? no. There looks like the shining star that once .

was so that was to say though IT will be a while and properly pass that on us to john turn is or every success .

precise .

like big statement on IT is slightly troubling but maybe absolutely correct for CEO say not saying that well, we're we're right there wrong or be were wrong right side history his big statement like best investors yeah, this is going to take years and years and years. Don't work.

Don't worry about IT.

Don't worry about IT. I think actually, said IT, during the only call last week, two.

we actually talked about this little bit on sunday because we had amy web bond, who is kind of a very high level management council. She's a futurist, but she's brought into talk strategy with the department of defense with ceos. And I did bring up tim cook as kind of, I think, the perfect example of how to manage and uncertain political situation.

You know, he was in china the same day, india nounce that there will be making many, many, many iphones in in india starting. Next generation and he's very good at balancing these these conflicting things SHE compared that to somebody like elon mosque has made a almost pascal's wager, if you will, with the election saying, well, let's think about this if if Harris gets elected, she's not going to retaliate for me being a trump fan. If trump gets elected and I were endorsing ing Harris, that could be a problem so the wise thing to do is is, is support trump just in case and knowing that even if trump tis doesn't win, it's not gonna as damaging if I did the opposite and you know so that's another way to do IT. I'm glad tim's not doing that because that seems a little .

bit and and just that should be said that the line mosque is not just heading is but he really is all in and committing his entire platform. But he knows that .

he knows that he will get you know, if trump wins today, he will get great rewards for that. But he also knows there will there will not be a big punishment for if he doesn't.

But tim, let us give great it's do for tim. He is really, really good at balancing those things that keeping his clean while shape pick shaking his hands with people who have A A great power to like hurt apple and to hurt his employees. And this and this is were not just talking about what's going on terrorist, but was going on with manufacturing.

Also remember that apple intelligence is not going to work in china unless apple depicts. Apple is reached a deal with a chinese owned A I company to provide basically the A I for that. And that's another very, very delicate thing that he had had not been for ten years of ground workers has been lying down there.

He wouldn't have the credibility and the good, the good relationship to rely on. So the fact that he makes the government looks really, really good in matter what the government is, is really, really an asset to apple. I will say that in people have been listening show for years and years and years know that there was a time where i'm like, I don't I wish I I hope I know.

I hope we don't find out in a bad way that apple doesn't have a line that net tooling across like when they were told to get rid of VPN off of an APP store or get rid of these podcast that this government doesn't like. They seem to have danced on the right side of that for now. I guess what is gna happen is let's hope things don't get so tense that we actually find out where that line is. And I have faith, but it's hard.

Well, amy, of course, has been doing a lot of work in the last couple of months with ceos. We live in a very uncertain time ablution and her her motto was embrace uncertainty, you know, and planned for variety of outcomes. But you've got a thing strategically and you've got a plane. And I think no one does a Better job at this in time. Cook, I think you've got ta give him tonic credit.

I talking about I want go we always talk about what to do.

Steve. And that was all visceral, all .

emotions, people with some yeah I think that this I think that um you know I think there's a lot of things to see what i've done that probably would have continue to grow products and so on so forth. But this razing management of all these governments and rules and everything else I think tim cook was built for.

they became a for email from Stephen. I have some thoughts on the size with that yellow star and your flag. IT is disproportion to the rest, that flag. And i've got this suggestions. Yeah, right.

Let's take a break. K.

I do want to talk about up on intelligence because we have IT and the girl says, were going to get the next trench, december fifth, or their outs, which isn't very far off. You watch a mac break weekly, and the anaho, alex ellsey and cases now I showed, they brought you by another group of experts, experts, exchange experts in all things tech.

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I have to say, now that i've been using now, I have up intelligence on all my devices. Turned IT on last week. Got IT very quickly.

I started to kind of think Better, more highly of apple's staged rollout. I think if they had dumped a lot of features on us, a lot of them would be missed. Never used IT might be too much for people.

This is it's very settled, but I get all of a son. I'm getting replies in my pretty good replies in my text messaging. I love that Frankly.

I love the notification summaries. I think they're very useful. I used to just turn off on my notification because I was overwhelming.

I love IT that and we showed IT last week, you five to ten people have visited that run my door bill instead of one for each, you know, person at the door. Or that was good on halloween, by the way, or or your garage door is opened twenty three times. I like that.

I think that's a good feature. I I have to say i'm kind of coming around. I haven't used the summaries much, but I think that that's also putting simple, straightforward, easily discoverable features in the start seems to me the right way to go. agree.

So yeah, I think I think that makes sense. And I think that again, I know all the gap es in that much of A A rush. I think they can roll this stuff out.

I mean, I have ChatGPT in the journey open most of the day. I'm doing different things um and i'm been playing with claude. And like I don't feel like i'm like i'm waiting for apple. Like I my life is stop because apple doesn't have those features. And so I I think that they can kind of roll these out relatively slowly and really build that out.

And I think that that's going to be the that's going to be a huge advantage for them because they're able to think through in a way that I think a lot of the other developers, kin, there's such a there's everyone's racing against each other to such a degree. Apple, apple hasn't the ability kind of go slow. The thing that I show everybody, and this has been on the android platform for a long time. As you opens up in photos and get rid of things, it's crop .

pleaser. Yeah like everybody has a photo with some somebody or something and of I was .

just and I used to do IT in photoshop and I was like I I take things into general and and I will say that apple's version of IT is not as good as photoshop I mean, like you know it's it's cute um but for little things I shot something yesterday to someone was a pain my shop and just happened to you. I don't feel like just kind of just click on IT disappear mazing.

I think sorry.

I going to say I wonder if this is an I do agree that apple doesn't have they don't have to go fast. There are not in a situation where people going to stop buying max, if I don't have A I features built in the industry, is still trying to convince, trying to make the case to people of A I features that are actually useful and practical. Was opposed to make for a great demo or a good White paper on something that you should be very, very, very, very, very, very worried about. Um so they have to have time to do this.

What i'm kind of interested in is whether apple has kind of the, I don't know, the guts to move forward on A I was kind of concerned when craig federici talk to join a turn the well specht nnl, uh, last week of the week before about the AI, the intolerance were and he was talking about all I will just we're concerned about the truth of an image. And should we be doing this all these philosophical questions, whereas I think it's definitely part of the part of the the conversation we need to have about is that should be what's the danger of making images and video so easy, easy to change none's. Again, if I took a picture of my kid and I accidentally made IT look like there's a palm tree growing out of their ear, it's great to be able to remove that palette.

Is he really great to be able to remove that pain? Can it's really great to be able to, like, be in a group photo by taking the group photo, then switching yourself out with somebody else standing in a new place, and now be able to combine yourself so that now you are in the group photo as well. There is going to have to be a lot of stuff where apple might have a moment where they have to say we we can't allow these purely academic discussions, philosophical questions direct the amount features that were willing to put into uh into our products because I could be that there is a good argument to be made on both sides. And IT turns out to be a product that people really, really want. So that's the thing that kind of concerns me.

yeah. I think that, that the issue is you don't want to come out too early like you need everything to make them. This steps. I mean, there was a lot of stuff.

And when I was on call for help with leo, I had this thing where people can send photos, and I fix them, right? know? So I would, you know.

people at first, the way, twenty years ago.

years ago, to believe any. And so people know, you know, I get hundred photos a week would get sent in, and I pick one that I would do. And invariably every week IT was there be some wao that would send one in.

And he is weird looking and he's got this girl and he wants to her her, this is my knees. I want to be combed into the photo with her. And I be like, I should report you, but i'm just not onna. Do the photo not going to do that? You know.

was like this constant .

flow of weirdos who wanted to be competed in with girls, you know and and the thing is, is that now you can do that same here. And I think I think an apple I think IT IT takes um I think the the it's not that you you can stop that, but I think that apple doesn't want to be the first one like that needs to be something that we're gonna know. Let everybody else take those. Everyone else be in the front line and we're going to sit back and let everyone take those zeroes and then will roll in and and do IT slowly and maybe more thoughtfully or put some, some, some guard rails in watching what everybody else is doing. Know it's kind of the it's kind of was that um um what was the time cruise movie where he never he he just doing IT over what they change the name yeah you tomorrow .

tomorrow .

yeah live repeat and and they change the name .

of the movie yeah it's .

a great movie by the yeah I like .

digit tomor so you .

know .

what that .

explains IT because I said to my wife all, look, there's a new Emily blunt tom cruise movie I haven't seen. We started watching and he said you've seen this and I felt like I was in IT because .

I was a repeat of the movie. I think I see that many times as he's gone through the cycle and I just start where he wakes up on on the base like whatever anyway. So the you need to see IT want you need to act one to once but want to you get back to is good anyway but the um but I feel like you know it's all that like trying to figure IT out, like apple gets to just watch everybody cycle through those things and make all those mistakes and and then figure out where where can we put guard rails that make IT at least like we did something reasonable because everyone else is in such a rat race to compete their throwing caution to the wind and and they're just saying we are we can make you can do anything you want and that's problem .

I was going to mention. Um it's absolutely true that apple is doing this in part piece meal because they have to right? Obviously, they're catching up.

They're n as best they can. Uh and you could argue that if if they could have shipped all these features at the moment, they would have but they couldn't but didn't. But here's the thing. I think you make a very good point, which is, I think dropping a load of features, hundreds of thousands of features on people in a single release, even I mean, back in the mac era where I was like, you know, the mac was the thing apple did, that was twenty ten or whatever, like I all computer users so know you're going to get your new features. I could sort to see IT, although was overwhelming even then.

But today, where you have a much more diverse user group, you've got a lot of low tech people who have a smart phone and they're not like, oh, I just love noodle around on a mac and I got new features to odal around with. They're like they have to learn IT and then they they put IT in their brains and then they don't change and it's very hard for them to glom on to any new features. If you dump your years worth of features in a single go in september, guess what? That probably every feature drop, every version drop you do, there's a chance there's like a ten percent chance that they'll discover one feature.

So you should I think for usability reasons, you should probably drop five features or three features or whatever every couple of months, not one hundred features at once because I think if you drop five features or one hundred features, there's still only that percent chance that they're onna pick up one of them. So why not? It's like we were saying about the mac.

Why not do three mac events on three separate days and get three chances to get people's attention? I feel this way with all software, like you can ship one hundred new features. Nobody, he's gonna learn how to use. They're not we none of us have the capacity for that.

So in that way, I think that by accident ah not only is advantageous because apple can see how everybody else is dealing with, I roll out and adjust on the fly because the advantage being a little behind is that you don't have to learn those lessons just like tom cruise in that movie whose type of keeps changing. But you also have the luxury of kind of like spoon feeding IT to your users and saying, why did you try this and and their ads are like this too. We're over time, their ads with use cases will change because that's one way you convince somebody to try a feature is you actually do an ad.

And I don't get me started, I think a lot of apple's apple intel gent adds a real bad, but I get what they're trying to do, which is, is to lead people into those use cases as well. So I think I think they would not have chosen this method, but I think it's the right one. I think it's .

Better for users, and I think this does IT. Google does IT with their pixel phones. They do monthly pixel feature drops ah so they probably have a more done, but they were ruled them a little bit of time. In that way, you can absorb bit exactly like they're tight trade .

because it's it's overwhelming and and IT suppresses upgrades if the features apple loons with I O S seven, right like if you drop dramatic changes on your device, uh in a single go, uh, people stop updating their phones. Like after I was seven, there were no updates for a while for a lot of people because they're like apple completely pulled the rugg out from under me with this O S. change.

So an apple, once you'd update. So instead parcel IT out very carefully. They do this with a mog two. That's one of the reasons they don't ship the new a mog set with the point o. They wait a couple because they do will eventually become a foo thing where you're like, go, why are you using a mog that I do not have? And then you get that emotion and apple intelligence features and generally features, I would argue apple has been moving this way. But I really like that idea that in june may say here's what we're doing for the next year and then that's a promise to roll all these features out over the next year, but not all in september. Please just don't do IT .

yeah i'm always surprised that how my kids have know so much about the phone like i'll show me every time they grab. It'll be like this kids here's here's to actually .

you know and you know that the .

kids these days.

I mean, you know when you want to to show a mac break weekly.

how could you not know that? I know exactly. It's most obviously the phone that they they they know really well. And I think that to to Jason point is that there are so many features that are hidden these things, this point, and I think I would love for a apple to go as slow as possible because I find that there are so many things that aren't as stables that used to be. And there's that whole like snow that kind of want a snow lepper uh, cycle where apple didn't feel like to have to add a unch of things because they they could probably use the year to tighten things up. But ah slowing steady is not bad.

Slow and steady yeah for all of us, right? It's for i'm sure for their developers too, right? I think this is one of the reasons why this happens, not just rapper intelligence for lots of stuff. Why started to doing some of this is, you know, imagine being an apple OS developer and being told that you need to get every brand new feature to fit and finish final.

For september instead of being able to trios and say these features in september, like we've been saying about evil intelligence, these in point of these in point one, point two, point three, point four, point five, that's way Better. And the software quality is going to be Better. And like all, all of IT is Better to do with this way.

So I love that in some ways, apple being behind sort of force them into this. And I hope they do this next time too. Like obviously, you want the cutting edge, most important features that are going to sell iphones to be there at launch. And i'm sure they will try to do that next year, but it's okay if some of the stuff wait a little bit. That's fine.

right?

And the great thing is they don't as they demonstrated, they don't have to come up with the entire story on on their own. They can say they can rule out apple intelligence in eighteen point two by saying anything that we are not studying enough to be able to do with A I. We will let ChatGPT do that, will lead out for that.

And if you want to use something, is another service, another APP on our phones. We were more than happy to host gni, uh, or claude de or anything else as an APP on the phone. So they don't have all they have to do is put themselves in position where they're not they're not getting in the way of whatever AI people want to use because again, there's we're not in the place yet where people know exactly what they want.

It's a really good thing to have a ye that's deeply, deeply rooted in the Operating system so that like when you using the google assistant or refusing slow mo, it's just suddenly turbo charge with smart. But we haven't demonstrated yet that people want necessarily require AI as built in at the OS level that the people who want A I will just simply pay the twenty books a month and install geri or install ChatGPT, the ones you don't care about IT. They're happy of having wacky custom mogi generated for them in time to time.

Let's take a break when we come back a big acquisition by apple, leaving the future somewhat uncertain. But first word from one password. You know one password.

I know you know one password, but we're talking about something more than just a password manager. Now we're talking about a brand new thing from one password. They call extended access management.

Let me ask you a rtw ical question because I do know the answer. Do your end users always work on company own devices using IT approved apps? Sorry, of course not right.

They bring their own devices. They bring their own apps. Sometimes their own apps are on their own devices.

So how do you keep your company's data safe? When is sitting on all those unmanaged devices and apps? One password, as an answered to this question, something brand new they put together called extended access management.

I think you're gonna really like where this is going. One password, extended access management, helps you secure every sign in for every APP on every device. IT solves the problems traditional iam and md m can't touch.

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There's little dirt pads leading from building the shortest point from building a to b, the ones the students actually use, those perfect brick pads in the beautiful covered buildings. Those are the company owned devices, the IT approved apps, the managed employee identities, and those pass that people actually use. Those are the unmanaged devices, the shadow I tps, the non employee ed in these like contractors.

Here's the problem. Most security tools just kind of ignore the mud path. They only work on those happy brit path. And of course, a lot of the security problems take place in the shortcuts and employee or brings his own laptop and there's you an out of date browser on IT or an on updated version of plex on IT.

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We thank you so much for supporting mac break weekly and don't forget to use address one password that comes such mac break because that supporters to, uh, kind of a shock, came out of nowhere. Uh, this week, apple bought pixel matter makers of pixel matter pro, pixel matter for IOS and the photo matter apps, much beloved apps. I've loved guest mullers takeyh.

He's the guy is a corn. And he says that I didn't realize this effect that kind of surprised me. That pixel matter and a corn came out roughly at the same time, fifteen days apart in two thousand and seven. And since affinity, which makes affinity photo infinity pages, and all of that was purchased by canvas march, a corn is the last independent mac imagine. Or from that era.

a corn is the cheese.

I like a corn, and I still actually used both. They do different things. And he says, yeah, there was a lot of overlap.

So what's happening is this a acqua ire? Are, is apple going to bring back appear? There are a lot of questions. What are your thoughts on this? I don't think there are bring back up.

I think this could be incorporated into photos that could be its own APP. Um I could be there is a bright mean when we saw there's other things theyve bought that they ve absorbed into other apps. There's other things that they bought that that they lets stay kind of what where they are.

Um I think there would be a great addition to some of these other tools I have to do. We talk about this on office hours a little bit. Not that excited about any other subscribe like it's not I .

don't think that would get picture was .

not a subscription, right?

Not yeah I think IT was what o yeah if you wanted to do with that way but I think um the um but you could get a fifty box I bought. I bought both a corn and pixel ador for or whatever or bought as they were released. So I didn't know i've had them since since then.

And um I think that I think the purchase of affinity probably put um a fair Better of pressure on both of those apps because suddenly they had a lot more money and affinity had done a Better job at being more photoshop like like so so IT was so I had I had a couple of features. Um I used definity mostly. I used pixel matter for a long time and we used that used to be the standard thing that was installed onto most of our machines.

Pixel, um I moved to a city for two reasons. One as they had this very odd three sixty painting tool, the other one nothing else had. So that was one one reason.

And they added um T G A with alpha um at my request. So there was so because I couldn't find another thing other than photoshop that would that would export T, G. S.

And I immediately went to to pixel matter and said, hey, I really need this exports. And like it's not a big demand for that, not okay. So so anyway, so affinity put IT in. And so a bunch of us all move to affinity because there was finally a photoshop, a non photoshop tool that would export the stuff .

we needed for black magic .

switchers, you know. And so but that was that is a .

unique use. Speaking was one of the first to put image racing. I was really blown away but how well I did .

yeah years ago. I mean, I think that the big thing is that they uh what by not being constrained by the technical debt that photoshop had, there are so many of the plugins that pixel matter does and that definity does and that accord does that are much, much faster than if you do IT in photoshop. No, you can do them in real time in a way that you can, you can do IT otherwise.

In the same time, I don't think what's interesting is i'd actually don't think the pixel matter is at the pro level is really that competitor with photoshop doesn't have off the channels, doesn't have know a lot of the other things. So it's a great APP for apple to get without getting. I don't think that i'm not sure what to do be thinks, but I doubt they look at that as something is digit deeply into their bottom line, you know and so so I don't think you going to get up like a change, you know a reaction from adobe by buying this. Um and and I think that IT is there would be an incredible tool next to keo or able to d that's what I was hoping .

is that they would have they would add that I work.

That's what they did that and made a part of that thing I think would be a much Better solution than if they started charging us of scription for you.

But group er points out photo matter integrates with apple photos IT. So so yeah so there is to be sent after making making that part of the apple photos.

My gut feeling. I mean, photo matter, it's funny. Photo matters been doing A I replace like clean up in photos for years now, right? And and if I was frustrating that wasn't in photos, it's got some nice tools.

My hope is that that the stuff that's been going on with photo matter maybe gets put some people on the photos team and and get some improved editing tools in photos. But pixel matter, that's that yeah that's the question. When I initially, okay, apple could do this two ways, right? And my initial thoughts weh, they're just going to eat this thing, right?

That's my year and we're .

never going to see IT. I actually think pixel matter is so advanced and there's so much of IT that I actually have a hard time imagining. That they would just swallow with hole and we'd never see IT again.

So here's my my best guess now is this. And this is just a theory. I don't know anything about this, but what is what matters to apple, the iphone? What matters the most about the iphone to apple in many ways it's photography.

So I think maybe there's an argument that apple camera technology and the people involved in apple's camera stuff are very ambitious. And in the end, whatever they build, however ambitious is IT has to integrate with their consumer photo APP um because that's all they got. And IT makes me think maybe somebody said, can we have a more advanced photo editing APP as part of our apple software?

That doesn't force us to toss every last thing we do into photos. Could we have something because we have final cut we can toss things, and final cut we don't to toss them in I movie. And now those are across platforms.

Could we do something a little more advanced than photos? And they looked around and said, well, actually we could. And that maybe that's what motivated this purchase is. They want a platform for a photos pro or pixel or whatever they want to call IT that allows them to have something like final cut and logic for photography. That's not photoshop and it's not light room and it's not trying to be.

But that lets them say, and if you want to do x with this new amazing future iphone camera future, we have the APP for you that you get for free or for a subscription Price or whatever. So that right now, that's my guess. Is that something like pixel or will stick around in some form? And that maybe that's why apple care so much, is that there's a part of apple, which is the iphone and photography that apple actually really does care about.

And once you start thinking about every photo feature you had has to get stuck in photos, a consumer image library and light editing APP IT is actually kind of a mismatch. And they if they built every feature for I movie, you'd d be saying the same thing. So that's what I think that.

And this is what makes a pixel matter unique. I don't i'm not prepared to a corn. Others are going to compared to mostly to photoshop because if you're just talking about a is there are really, really good.

There's there's the bill and photo editor you get there is the intermedia everything where you're still pretty much just sliding sliders around and you want to use AI features. And then there's photoshop and like will give you that photoshop will give you that it's not even that expensive of things, still just ten bugs a month. You just want those two apps.

What IT will what owning a owning a company like picture matter will do is that the matter is something that adobe products aren't IT is down to the D N. A. IT is a mac APP IT isn't IT is an I O S.

APP. There is nothing about IT that seems like there was any quarter given for making this multiple platform. IT was just what is what is if you could even think of IT as is the most, uh, florida, a demo of every single mac technology.

There is a down to metal, down to the apes, to user interface, everything that is an elegant mac product. So I don't know why apple necessarily would want to own IT as supposed to be happy that IT exists and keep promoting IT in their keynotes as as they would like to do. Um I I would be shocked if I were hey, we could make we could really make the photos APP spectacularly great and steal all those really great eye features.

Of course, we're through anything else. We're going to actually have the APP itself. I don't think they would be stupid enough to do that. I don't think that the pixel matter team, unless that would be a hell of a big truck filled with the sort of notes the sort of bank notes that are only in like ripples, believe that are not the kind of like the ten thousand dollar William freed can note or whatever. That's how much money they will have to do to say, oh, we're going to we're willing to basically put our our product in a basket and down the river.

But I am I was surprise. I'm sure that there is a Price for which that they might not care. But I think you're right.

I think the counter might be could apple take pieces of IT and put IT in pages and keynote? And reform and like free form is kind of designing a little bit, but I don't think it's the right fit. I think the right fit is to do a really good photo APP.

And if you haven't used pixel matter, like it's photoshop, basically it's got layers and and it's vector tools and it's like way beyond like photos. The APP could not contain IT IT doesn't make sense. Photo matter is like nice features that should be in fotos.

Pixel matter is photoshop. So now apple has a photoshop that at any point about one hundred percent right is very apply. IT is the most appalling.

Why they are all respect to guss. Accord isn't gonna acquired because it's so not up.

but so not a mac. Well, one different yeah but no.

I love IT and I isn't old style mac APP where I pixel matter is like a mac ipad and IOS like a form that made IT yeah me.

Another reason why I would would confuse me if apple did not continue to support IT as a separate, separate product because it's it's not just hey, wow, it's photo IT. It's now instead of using just pushing sliders around in the photos APP, now i've got like something that's almost photoshop like it's not just photoshop like IT goes off on its own direction. James mentioned about the the vector or tools.

It's not just for, hey, I want to increase the brightest here. Hey, I wanted do layers. Hey, I want to delete something from the background. IT really is a one hundred percent independent creative tool. So as its own thing, IT is a natural part, is a natural fit for apple's portfolio, particularly if they make a kick.

But ipad version of an IT is such a great way to show off all the technologies that apple has been investing in for years and years and years, including the AI tools that they are like as we discuss us earlier. Kind of not philosophically excited about putting into the mainstream camera or the mainstream photos. P, they could still offer all that sort of stuff with this free APP that you can download the side.

I work. But again, there would be such a damn shame in such a damn disappointment if they did not simply continue IT as pixel matter or even if even if what they did with that was again, give you a new name. But it's still clearly pixel matter.

There's still the pixel matter group updating IT. Only they now have access to the silicon they now have access to. Oh, by the way, here is, here is what the GPU on apple silicon in five years is going to be able to do.

You get to start supporting IT right now, and you get to start telling us what this hard work should be doing. Now I mean, I I not can go so silicious to think that g, this would be a great step towards having a touch screen mac wouldn't IT. But that's that's, that's as far as I go. But the worst thing absolutely would be, oh, great, there is there is a pixel. I recognize that the bones in the blood batter evidence of pixel maze acquisition in this one new feature that on my iphone, I think I think that .

one of the things that apple could have been looking at us, hey, we need to have more control over. There is a lot of features that we'd like to take advantage with apple intelligence with with all the data that know these are not talking about computational photography. Apple has a lot of data connected to those those photos.

And you know something nothing's really taking full advantage of those right now other than than photos. And probably that's still kind of hidden under of the year of consumers, consumer interfaces. And so so I think that I think that apple could have been looking at this area and they could definitely build their own team and do this. Or you could buy a team, you buy a company and have the team there.

And I think that there's a lot of value in pixel matter, being able to integrate with keynote, integrate with pages, integrate with being able to add U S D Z, you know, a features to IT, being able to do those things because one of the things that adobe is actually pulling away from apple on is the ability to generate high quality 3d assets， an apple that's a big for, for a lot of what apples doing, what they are and VR. And but adobe is crushing IT. And how? Why are they crushing IT? Is because they bought algorithms, mic.

So there's they bought one company. They brought out the adobe. May had a bunch of failures for a decade, gave up and bought this great company out of france that that really brought all the tools they needed into IT.

And they just keep on leveraging that end over and over. And and they are building like simpler stic. Now I can neo project.

Neo is the simplistic modeling tool that you can, that you can grab onto and start to build stuff. And so I think apple needs those generation because they need to control. Apple likes to be able to control its own destiny.

And with final cut in motion and in logic, they control their own destiny in those areas of, you know, doesn't mean that everyone's using those, but they have somewhere they can push that technology into IT and at least prod people forward in that area. And and so I think pixel matter fits that, bill. As far as in a steel image, vector image type of thing, I being able to do that.

So I think I think it's a great purchase. I do I don't think they are going to a part. I think that you could see bunch of the features that they have fed into IT, but just those features, I think apple could write them selves. I think that having the apps themselves.

they have a professional video and film editing tool. They have a professional audio editing tool. IT makes sense for them to say I won't have a professional static image generator tool but as he says, is not just necessarily, uh, to the images.

Again, the the thing that keeps the thing that that be does that keeps its hooks into me. That guarantees that ten dogs are fifteen dolla month for me, for the photography packages. Oh, so now if I have a piece of art of a flying toaster, but i'm thinking, oh boy, wish I were head on. Instead of three quarters, IT will turn IT into a three d object. And I can now spin IT and have a straight on version of this three d toaster, even though I didn't have to.

Into a three d object myself forgive IT any hints that's the sort of problem solving and like, I don't have the skills to do this myself but hey, i've got fifteen dollars a month for this photoshop and is got a brand new feature that drop last month yeah, if apple can do things like that, if they can make IT so that any time I want to do advanced, advanced asset creation, hate to use those those words, but that's the best way to put IT. I don't want people. I don't want to start the thought that all this is just be showed. Photoshop alternative IT is like an a creative asset creation thing any time. I mean, cano and I need an object to dress this thing up with either generating of the about AI or editing something that have or drawing something brand new, or transport graphing something IT can IT has such sick integration with something like placebo matter that that's the tide will elevate all creative boats on the on the market and on the ipad.

Apple's relationship with a doby has been tenuous for while apple was in the Steve jobs here was really very anti adobe, right?

They were they on't think they are really frustrated with adobe because the problem that they had is as they move to um as they move platforms, adobe was taking a long time because doby has an enormous amount of technical that inside of their apps, they've been slowly taking those sections out and updating them and everything else. But it's not trivial for adobe to move photoshop or premiere other things to to a new platform.

There's a lot of stuff that's that's based on things, and adobe is also managing multiple platforms and know apples. Just one of them know there, right? And I think that and so I think that um um I think what Steve jobs got upset about us, he really S A new OS and adobe would tell everyone, hey, don't not grade you know, if you're using our products because we can and then I would go for a year. I think you one point I went for a year where photo no, I think that one IT was either six months or a year IT took to be to get photoshop to the new version, and that infuriated.

But then at some point, apple realized photoshop is critical to the platform. probably. Why abandon a perata, right? They didn't want to compete head ahead.

I think I don't think apache was particular maybe was a competitor to light room, but IT wasn't ever really a competitive to photoshop. Um I don't yeah I think that I think that what what happens. I think there was a push to make po photos a lot more, have a lot more features that got a lot closer to appear ure. And then I guess to a point where and like why do you .

have why have both one of the other direction? And I have to say the pixel matter and photos good choices because their user interface looks a lot like photos. You me know .

if .

you yeah. So I think many photos pro is a very interesting.

I did down to their website, right? Looks like an apple look like as a company. And there are some companies not all in the application stem to like this where they like we're just going to try to be apple.

We're going to what would apple do is the touchstone in every way. And if you get by by apple, that's kind of good, right? Because you were already there. And and so yeah whether it's photos pro or whether it's pixels or I don't know what uh yeah that would be if I had to guess right now that would be my guesses as they will keep IT intact in some forms sort of like what happened with workflow when I got gotten turned into shortcuts.

right? And by the way, the team is in lithuania. I enough that makes a difference.

but I think apples pretty I mean, apple third party apps are in, I think the logic teams in germany, right, like they are all over the place. And if you're not, in course you can afford to not be in opportunity.

What happened? The logic is the perfect example of what happened .

to the logic. I think logic and final cut were both purchases and they left teams in place and the logic team, yet logic team was in germany, so they're still in germany. And I may I may have developers elsewhere, but I will tell you, it's very clear from the released notes that there are a lot of germans still building logic because the very like occasionally I see some english that i'm like that looks a little like a german speaker did that.

And also, again, very meticulous in detail. The best I don't say this often enough, the best release notes in apple software, our logic released notes, they are detailed. It's every change every time I see.

I think imagine if everybody's changed. Us were like this. It's I mean, it's like baby, at the level where it's literally every change that happened.

There was a small corner of the button that we didn't like, and we softened IT, yes.

actually, yeah. And once called to this, we a during during a .

night of ten sleep, we were visited at four thirty two A M by the ghost of Steve jobs saying, I have a note on the rounded rectangle that you're .

using in here. It's sterile. I love IT. Well, i'm really written for the illness team. I'd love to see them make this more than an aqua higher, but really a product that apple could add to its kind of sweet of free apps that that provides with every mac and every ipad that would be really amazed.

yes. Yeah really I mean, they could do IT as a subscription really like coast cut and logic or substitution. So they could do with that way if they wanted to um will see no .

new apple watch is a bigger screen. Maybe we're onna finally get great photo editing in the watch.

Pixel made their watch. That would be pretty funny. That would be historical. All right, let's let's do IT. We've deferred IT long enough time for the vision pro segment.

Are we disappointed with me SHE coz yesterday saying, as I understand, the production of the cheaper vision pro has been delayed beyond twenty twenty seven for a while now. That means apple's only new head made of displayed device next year will be the vision pro with an upgraded in five process. incredible.

yeah. I think I don't think it's changed. I think they have the thing like apples discovering this thing and apples going to go to. They are apples to do things. I think apples been on the same path the whole time and and I think they're just talking to different people like like apples decide make a cheaper one and apple has maybe never decided to make a cheaper one that you like. I don't know if IT I really .

people holding out for that is good to know or maybe not.

I mean, mayi think that I like the idea that they understand the difference between a thirty five hundred dollar V R heads, said that has note that people can't figure out how to how they would use IT. And a fifteen hundred dollar V R heads set that has no great abot and no great use case for them personally. But IT doesn't IT doesn't solve the problem.

I think that they know that if there's a the problem with vision pro is not Price of access. Is that again, why are you spending why would you spend in a world that has that has the metal quest? What is what is your reason for spending more than six or seven hundred dollars on a headset like this? And unless you're enterprise, unless you're doing lapped scope t surgery, there is not a whole lot of great answer to that.

So if that's true, I like that idea. Let let's let's upgrade the processors because we ve got new processors so that whatever job is doing right now continue to do very, very well. But I I would love to see apple a new if there's a really new version of the vision pro.

I would love to see IT be the obvious residue of apple having learned from their sales experience over the previous two years as supposed to, oh, well, we just need, we need to have wanted pink and Green. And then that three of my people arent buying them. It's not that cording a girl.

And they do have a initiative code named at less, which gathers feedback from apple employees on smart glasses. They're looking at the the existing market. And this is german's sources who say additional focus groups are planned for the near future.

But an apple focus groups of four.

five years from a product, no at all. Like of first they would be doing this.

Love that that the response to the meta ray bands is, let's form a committee like IT feels like that means that knows if they are also working on IT. But I think that that's a little concerning to me. I did think it's interesting that girl is also reported that apple might be considering something that is not quite a cheap vision pro, but more like you take the computer off and you put IT on the iphone and it's a similar device and it's specifically what he says is an accessory for watching movies. And I thought that's really interesting, right? Like if we believe that some immersive content and also watching movies on planes is a great feature of vision pro, could you build kind of from the other direction, something that is not as immersive and it's not as heavy and IT? All the computer is on the iphone, but that could get you not spared computing, but maybe a really nice entertainment device and and have that is an experiment.

Even just even a virtual display like that is the thing that gets me hooked on these devices. The idea of again, being some, being some place other than my house, but still have like my full, like multiscreen display. It's something the people keep responding to of the fact that I I think there was another new sign about eighteen point two six in the extension of the vision pro L. S. Finally giving you the wide screen virtual display, which sounds like a trivial thing, but it's like, this is the good people like about using these things.

They love him yeah you know why nulta wide? It's also my understanding is a much hard quality that's just out in the latest beta developer beta for for vision O S. And you need the mac O S H latest beta.

But I haven't tried to yet. I'm looking forward, I need up upgrade one of my max to to fifteen two in order to get that. But that is yeah, you're right.

These these are interesting ideas to say, well, what if what if we don't have every product to be everything and sliced IT in a few different ways? Because again, if they figure out how to do a merse ve theater or a mercie, whatever, and and you can lower that barrier, you don't necessary need to be a full on vision pro computer. IT could be a simpler thing that is designed for very limited and interaction. And just viewing and and using your iphone as the compute would also help sure.

And how apple would IT be for them to not give you have a cup of air glasses that is, like display port over USB c but oh, well, and if you have an iphone, you can use that as basically if you have the make make map giving a display through the glasses with the iphone as an in between, essentially rewarding people who are in, who are all in on the ecosystem, and encouraging people who might be considering getting like a samsung phone instead of an iphone, said, yeah, maybe you don't want to do that.

I didn't think that anybody doesn't think that I was trying to find a cheaper version or or A R version. I mean, i'm sure that, that was part of early plans where they're trying to get to, you know, this is A T, this is a gamma test.

is not even a beta test. This is a this is .

market search of the whole. The whole thing that some of us have bought is a giant test. Four hundred thousand was about the sample that they needed. I don't think that they I don't think that they're measuring successor failure based on the number they sold.

I think that they needed to get they you need them out there in the public and let people play with them, figure out what was working, not working. It's just a giant R N D project. And I don't think that I don't think that to learn any license from the sales right now because I don't think that they care.

Just don't think I think I mean, I think they just need a bunch people using them um and and to see what what's working, not working, how to get things done. There's so many things that a lot of us are learning because we all own them. So i'm developing things.

I look at IT. I go, okay, that didn't work. This didn't work, but you have to have you know the people who are using IT now or people who are obviously early adopters. But google did the same thing with glass for a while um and that didn't work out well because of the camera, but in the type person that would .

get first so so .

but but IT was the idea is you need to get a larger sample then just close beta you out there and have people using IT. I think that's what all apples .

doing right now. I I great. I don't think that they would roll out of thirty five hundred products that's available to anybody who walks into any apple store if they did not intend IT to be a platform that made sense for the entire ecosystem. I I just don't see apple.

I think IT now. okay.

But but they also remember that when google released glass, they were explicit saying that we didn't say this is the new next new revolution in computing and wearable. IT was like, we think this is a really interesting idea. We've taken IT as far as I can go, like inside our labs, we are making a limited number, a low capacity run of these, to put that out in the hands of people, to see how society response to these things. This is why we calling you explore.

They did very dangerously jump out of a region over .

top of mosconi that that was a good old days. When you sky, if you can pay for a skydiver, why not pay for a sky diver? You know, that was real.

yeah. Oh yeah. Okay.

so many. I think the part of the problem was just that, as we've been saying a couple times during the show, like apple has at least a five year a time in doing, and I think that the idea of a wearable like the vision pro made absolute complete sense when they Green with this project to almost irrevocably go forward. And things changed, but not enough for them to say, let's just forget this all happened.

IT was still a product that they could sell. They figured that we can we're not going to lose money on our on twenty twenty four a run of these things. And maybe that will set the ground for whatever we do next.

I believe the you that I think the most is not contributing to the bottom line but is contributing to their understanding of how such a product um could use. One quick thing though, telling back to something we were talking about last week and we were talking little bit about what might be discussed during the earnin's call. We are going to talk about vision pro, and I think we create that is going to get like one sentence, like kind of under their breath technology that exist. And they said, and we're really excited by what people are using vision pro in surgery anyway, the chinese heads winds that we are now feature so many.

I think that the issue for those of us who have been developing for these set sets for a long time, the thing that I most excited about is that I finally have a headset that can get remotely close to what we could see as possible. It's expensive to build that headset and the meta quest doesn't get there.

You know like IT, it's good, but you kind of like that is fine, like it's the three days, okay, you know and if you pick up your phone and do spatial streaming, it's a little Better. Like you know that is there. But when you look at when you look at um emerged, I mean for there are many about that that I didn't like but that is the highest quality hundred eight degree ve stereo footage have ever seen and and we finally had a headset that could display IT know.

And I think that that the impact of that takes years in the entertainment industry to to have but there is a lot of people in the entertainment industry that have these headsets and they're looking at i'm trying to an apple needs to Spark that. There's no way to Spark with. Another cheap ad set that's going to do substandard video like you know like you know you're not onna get people thinking about IT because they are used to looking at this is the first that set that I ve put on that I would prefer if i'm not watching with my family and the player actually works. And in the like the amazon player, I just to watch on TV because the player in the vision crop stinks. Um the uh so but if it's a native player playing video, I would rather watch IT on my apple vision pro in my TV if I was left myself, my family and that is never happened in another headset IT cost thirty five hundred dollars to build a headset .

that does that. I I respect that your opinion, I just disagree with IT. I think I still I see the difference between the vision pro and a five thousand dollar headset as kind of the difference between like a mac mini and a mac o in the of in the sense that the mac pro can get hundred and twenty eight gigs and system RAM and the mac minis limited to like thirty two.

I think there's something really important about a machine that can do that can have hundred twenty eight gigs of RAM, like being up to run these huge, huge models, financial models, scientific models, training AI, that sort of stuff. But I don't think that's something that's relevant to most people. If you're selling this is a consumer item, you're not you're you're making a very impressive piece of hardware that's impressive in ways that most people are not onna be able respect.

But I don't think but what you have to sell first is the content creators who are just tired of everything looking like pop. You know, you like, like, you like when you put on the headsets and you worked all all this time on this movie and you put the headset on on every other headset, IT was kind of like, like, like, like, this isn't worth watching whole movie on.

Like it's it's fine, but it's not worth watching a whole movie on the first time that I put IT that I watch a movie on the vision pro, I was like, oh, I could actually see this is a platform to watch things on. Now do you have the Price down? absolutely. But you in the current technology, you can do IT and you can't get people to build for IT if you can get them inspired to to to use IT. I think the chAllenges .

k and that the vision pro.

statement.

I just waiting .

for someone to use ID to either cut that out and listen to only that or to cut that out and never hear IT. But IT could do IT either way. I'm sure couple more square asters for a pic of the week. Apples decided by twenty percent of global star, which does the satellite iphone satellite services twenty percent. It's not like buying the whole company, but that's .

that's that's one point seven billion dollar investment, eight part of a to one point one billion to essentially prepare, chase, uh uh purchase uh their usage of the system h four hundred million I think to uh for twenty percent of the company and then also two hundred and seventy million additional to essentially help them out with their debt cutting. Some death is due in twenty twenty nine. And now that's that's gone.

That's amazing. They still um I saw another analyst talk talk about whether or not this means that apple, i'll have more of their band with and IT seems as though that's not true. They seem to think that there apples can be sticking out about eighty five percent of what the company can provide. But boy, what a huge, huge investment in the idea of this, not simply as an emergency service, but as a way for people to do messaging.

And they're watching more satellite .

to aren't you forty I .

think recently, yeah very interesting. Us consumer finance protection bureau has ordered apple and golden sex to pay eighty nine million dollars for early a apple card failures. And the things they fixed pretty quickly well was a big deal.

The complaint mentioned about IT, like one hundred and fifty thousand consumers who just did not get their customer service tickets. I've got a fragile, I got a fragile in charge. I need to stop this or do something about IT and getting no answer whatsoever. Also the accused, both companies of you're being misleading about a interest payments and stuff like that. So yeah, they was a pretty big failure.

Uh, big scoop for the upgrade podcast, Jason.

I guess somebody sent us a an anonymous message that said that apple is working on ninety hurts refresh screens that would not be pro motion but would be liquid motion or something like that. Who knows what marketing name they will do, but this makes sense. In reviewing the ipad, many one of the really struck me as as an ipad pro user, just the slow refresh rate. I really know no interesting.

And I know that a lot of phone observers have said that for the Price of apples iphone sixteen, uh which is a still a premium phone compared to android phones, you should probably have a refresh rate higher than sixty year um and I agree, I think this is like the equivalent in the apple holding down the base RAM and systems at this point, sixty hurts is not enough, I would say. And so this anonymous person, who, according to my hurley, is when we've heard from before, again, we're not really trying to break news, but all of a sudden we did a thing in the podcast and bunch of people vote articles about IT. So that's interesting.

Anyway, this person says that they are working on a ninety hit refresh and that maybe that will be them raising the bar a little bit on refresh. Ate on their devices. good.

awesome. yeah. right. Let's take a little break when we come back your picks of the week. My friends prepared them as I beg on bended me.

All are of fabulous fans who are not yet members of club to IT to consider spending a mere seven dollars a month to keep our Operation going. We've had to close the studio. We've had a layoff people. We've slowly shrunk down to attendance size, I think. But IT does require some help from our audience, and I think that's the right way for us to go forward.

Anyway, i'd like i'd like to really make that be how we support the podcast, our listenership, what you get at at three versions of all the shows you don't need to listen to as you paid for IT. Um you also get access to the club to IT a discard, which is really a great hang. It's my favorite social media hang out, great, smart people talking about interesting things, not just our shows.

You also go to access to special programing that we don't make available in public right away, things like our coffee club and book club. And we did the photo review last week with Chris mark court. The plan is to stream those live. That's bad.

Wait, another thing, the clubs made possible to stream those live and then make them private to the club for the first months and then after a month, make in public to everyone because we want to build our audience, right? So you get early access to those kinds of things. Seven dollars a months.

Twitter, that TV flash club twit do. Check out the two week free option. If you're on the fence, you could try to see if you like IT. Maybe, maybe don't need those ads.

There's also, I think and I wish more people took advantage of this a great option to get a three months when you refer somebody to club to IT. All you have to do when you as a member is you're going to have a special referring that's unique to you. Put that on your social, send its a friends, put on your website, let everybody know.

And for everybody that joins because of that link you get a three months, which means you could really subsidize your entire membership. All the details that twitter, that TV flash club twitter me. Thank you so much for your support and thanks especially to the existing club members. We really, really appreciate what you do.

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Imagine being a student right now. You're twenty twenty four the year without access to wifi. It's a disastrous tage.

Millions of households actually still don't have wifi. So obvious reading about what eighteen N T is doing and it's pretty incredible. What they're doing is equipment.

Twenty thousand students, so twenty thousand kids essentially in need with backpacks loaded with laptops and school supplies to get that connection. You've got this generation of kids that are gonna the the teachers, doctors, you know, health care workers. Ed gmh mela is his name of friends of the children in seattle to charity that eighteen t team up with.

He has a quote, he says, every backpack and laptop provided by our generous partners isn't just a gift, it's a lifeline. He says these tools lay the foundation for our youth, ensuring they have the same opportunities to learn, grow and succeed as anyone else. So is very important. Connecting changes everything. A, T, N, T.

ah, let's get the picture of the week with mr. Jason snow, our first picker.

All right, first picker. great. I there's a ARM stories happening in my neighborhood about like holiday things, people with giant inflated ble pumpkins and stuff.

and like lots of flight tables are really cheating.

yeah. And and then lots of lights. People put in lights and trees and lights on their offences and lights on their houses.

And, you know, i'm never gonna like, i'm never gonna out excitement, then they're always gonna be. Those people are motivated, but I do want to be like in the game. We put up cheap, lousy holiday lights on our roof line for years.

They last a couple of years. They fall apart. They leave like stupid plastic anchors that snap .

on a while around the house picking a plastic for years yeah just the feel like thousands of them every .

so I I can't say that everybody should do this because there there is a um I found a red post that link to a google doc or a goole spread sheet where a guy actually listed all of the companies that make permanent holiday lights and around them in terms of like cost and do they project down or do do they shine out and how do you mount them?

And after all of that, I am going to recommend ever lights because it's what I bought my ever lights down com. They will do professional installs, but there's also a DIY kit. A lot of our listeners probably would be into the DIY side. That's what I got is the DIY kit. It's a bunch of lights and a wireless controller and a base station and a bunch of aluminum, aluminum sheet track.

And the idea there is that you mounted, you can also actually it's made so that if you've got traditional others, which I don't, you can just draw a hole every nine inches and the little light stick out of the gutters and then you put a little plastic cap on the other side and screw IT in and then they're anchored there. But they're really robust. It's four wires, so there's a power of ground and then two data cables so that you have the ability if there's it's more robust.

Basically, if one of the data cables loses connect, we've got another one and it's all very flexible. You can um you can snip IT wherever you need to. And then reattach IT and y've got a bunch. They including this started kid, a bunch, he shrinking connectors so that you can keep a everything waterproof.

And I managed to a sort of like snip bits with with scissors out of the aluminum so I could get IT underneath the overhanging of my roof, which is flat but has some some beams that stick out from the house so I slip little um spaces so that I could slide IT up and the beams wouldn't get them away. Screwed all that in all the way across the front of our house, put in the line wired IT all up. They're gotten APP that you use to control the patterns.

They come and they do a bunch of different colors, but they are all also like to patterns and blinking and anything you want out of IT. They're got a bunch of pre build patterns you can build your own ah and i've been pretty happy with that so far and very impressed. IT is IT has hit the spot.

Uh, IT was a fun, although a little bit chAllenging, just because IT took a lot of time, fun chAllenge to set IT up. And now that I got IT, we don't have to hang little plastic clips. We don't have to have the crappy these are much higher quality lights.

There are other options out there too. But i'm just going to say if you if you get tired of the holiday light thing getting paying a little bit more and getting ones that will last is a Better approach if you can afford that initial upfront payment. So far, i'm pretty happy with IT happy hot looks.

And so yeah and and they've gotten an APP the it's completely IOS controllable and imprisoned and very controllable to but I didn't check because I don't care. And yeah, it's good, it's good. I like IT, so ever lights my ever likes not they are very nice.

I had a support issue. They responded to my email. They responded to my phone call. We got all working. So um it's it's a small group people in utah that they build these things in salem. And anyway, so that was my so what you .

do after Christmas so you just turn off.

No, no, i'm the empty state building of my neighbor. Od, i've i've got I got you thanksgiving lights out there and i'm gonna have some on on the days, the cow place football, it's going to doing all .

out there .

and and my wife is already instructed me to build a honecker atterson where i'm going to have eight lights that start with one yellow and then and then grows over. I am, i'm all in so this can be fun. It's like everybody on the street is going to like, what is that even signify?

I guess I had, but I will know it's lights. You ask me, ask me why the lights of that color. I will probably have a story for you. So yeah, we'll see how long that last before I say I don't want to be the empire state building anymore. But for now, if there's something to celebrate, I will find a way to celebrate in lights.

I think that's great. Every lights. Thank you, Jason x linsey year pick of the week year.

So um i've talked about this in the past. This is for a always works solution for getting USB and out. I still consider this the the best one in the world. This is a USB three, two.

Oh yeah.

that's how you're hearing me too.

Yes, this is there's .

the mix pre which is more complex. This one is a tank um and but one hundred dollars .

so so so so .

and you can see at one point, I don't know when I was but at some point this is number fifty eight that I so we used them for all of our kids. I was i've been out trying to get audio into the iphone so that I can take in board records when we're doing spac streaming and like didn't want to do eleven hundred dollars a unit. So trying to figure out how do we get IT down to something little less.

And what we found or what I found so far and will be testing at some more today um but so far as worked perfectly is this is the eva duo and there a va solo and this is a USB C I O interface. IT will do IT does have IT has some outputs, some some quarter and chat puts on the back. But more importantly, it's got it's got two XL r inputs on the baLanced inputs there so you can get the and this is only, I think eighty nine dollars.

And I think the the UNO, I guess not do do solo, but the no is only fifty nine dollars. And so and so far these these works well. Not the same build called or you're the same number of features that i'm used to with the larger one.

But um for getting these basic sources in, if you're looking for something like that, um this is working fairly well and IT works with the iphone. It's a little tRicky because in seventeen six, the iphone has been really tRicky about which connector which auto winner faces that IT will see. And so so this is one of the ones you'll see in part of IT is because IT doesn't have a lot of feature sets and like IT doesn't, we've had trouble getting IT to consistently see them express the scarlet bunch other things. And so this one is inexpensive, can plug and do microlight, and it's working pretty.

What do you use for the output? What are the of the iphone? The iphone .

to IT the iphone, I just .

log in. It's just USB. C.

H. So the U S, B.

C pd on that will plug phone .

iphone i'm using in the kid that i'm using IT for. I have IT. I thought that was the power.

The USB connector was the power and audio out, but this could be audio in as well.

So it's audio in is what i'm using IT for times that can do the audio out. It's got two quarter twenty years on the back. So doing baLance study out, right?

I'm using IT with this the way this is kind of set up tonight. I'm actually my daughter's playing at hot monk tonight. If anyone wants .

to see your daughter is playing .

IT up on told the west .

rocket no no they uh the the high schoo SHE goes to does um um the high school that has a rock band class and that rock band class gets to go like six or seven bands that play four songs each and they're all playing hot monk tonight .

and her the battle .

of the bands. There's no battle, but they have a good time. She's part of a band, two bands I actually but the band of joy she's playing, I think he plays riem guitar in one band and either drums .

or bed in the other one.

So SHE is plays a lot lot. He plays a lot. But yes, so this is the the rig that i'm taking with me. This is this is using the belt and four to one uu, um us P P two. I know this is bigger, that that .

is a big nerd.

I was, I offered to bring three cameras switcher alive you and stream the whole thing and I was told, dad, no, no, no. So so this is so this is what i'm using here. So I have power going into this and then this will go into that and then the phone will hook into all of this, and that's how you get all the things to go. So anyway, but but finding this kind of inexpensive interface to get into the into the phone was A A thing that we needed to figure out.

And you just earned us ten dollars with that pic from his son, a mod who says my favorite podcast on youtube and forked over ten dollars on youtube. I don't know what youtube money conversion rate is, but thank you has on and thank you, alex, for the pic. So we use a lot.

We let use the scarlet t focus, right? Scarlet, would this be a replacement for that? You think .

theoretically, I haven't tested IT. I'm using line in. So you always got the way you measure this is with mike because the mike, the preamp is much more key. So so I haven't tested this one with microphones. I did test IT whether like an empty eight and I was like and IT works.

So but I didn't test IT in, but haven't tested IT for like what is the what is its base noise level? What are those types of things? Um but we'll try to do that in the .

future and let you know and OK it's a good Price. yes. I eva, no or do al, which is isn't quite correct, italian, but will take IT that leaves andy and echo for your pic of .

the weeks are okay. Well, there is a lot of reasons why we have notes apps, which is one, the reasons why I have lots of notes apps running at the same time. Two of of the reasons are, one, you want to have something a handy when you need to write something down right now before you forget IT like you're on a phone cause like that.

And another one is when there's just a piece of text that you need to come back to time and time again, like in my case, like there's a terminal command for doing something really, really handy in a ones fell soop. And so I just keep IT nearby speaking to simply copy pace when I need IT. And so that's why one of my favorite apps for the mac is called taught T O T.

The U R L to find out about is taught dot rocks. And it's a very, very, very correct ur k because IT doesn't indeed rock very, very simple, very, very clean. It's a menu bar APP ah that just simply has seven, one, two, three, four, five, six, seven pages of notes so that whenever you need just to write something down, like someone's giving a phone number, I need to write IT down.

Click on the menu and just simply write IT down that's great or you can organize these seven pages the way you want, any way you want. It's not six colors. At seven colors, there's each one is a different color.

And so again, if there's ever you are all for a regular zoom meeting that I have. And for some reason, zoom is not like discovering the U. R.

alpha. I can go to this note and quickly rabbit, uh, from there uh, and that's really all have to all I need to say about IT. Uh, it's it's not really complicated.

IT has shortcuts support. You can use markdown. If you want to use markdown, that's fine uh and does a sink tie cloud so that if you have you can sink between your max and your and your iphones.

But the if the if you just using the mac version is absolutely free. Ginger download, install IT, it's free, twenty dollars one time purchase if you want to use IT on I S, and therefore use the the eyelid d sink service. But again, i've just spent on my it's been on my menu bar forever and it's against one.

Those things were if I if there is a new version of mac west that IT we're comparable with, that would be a very, very bad day. I'd have to like that. I'd have to make some changes.

I'm really recommending IT now because every now then you really have to you really should take a look at the tools you're rely on each and every day the most and make sure that is still the best solution for that task you have for D. I spent a few days like last week looking to see there's another like really quick handy taken out and keep us keep this handy utility where there's a many bar or wicket or whatever like that. And I wasn't able to find anything that was nearly as good as that.

Again, for this simple tasks is not, is not the the central truth of my note taking is not what I reach for when I need to drop down ideas or things like that. I use google keep for that. But again, for that simple task of, i've right now have to write something down, I don't have time to launch an APP and or I need to h what's that? What's that unicode, uh, think that that I sometimes used to end blog post with.

I just keep that cotton placed right. And there is like to simply grab IT really, really great by the icon factory. So you know it's pretty good stuff. Highest recommendation .

that has an excEllent URL taught dot rocks. Thank you, Andrew. Thank you andy and arco. Alex linz y Jason snell, thanks to all of you for joining us.

We do mac break weekly every tuesday eleven A M pacific to pm eastern eighteen hundred UTC. Actually no it's one hundred UTC because are now in standard time one hundred. UTC, you can watch us do IT on eight different streams.

We are now on youtube, twitch, tiktok, facebook linked in a kick. And of course, our club twit discard. So lots of ways to watch us live.

That's why I mentioned the lifetime. But honestly, you really can also watch or listen any time. It's convenient for you.

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That's our website. You can also, if you go there, you'll see a link to a youtube channel dedicated democratic weekly. This for the video, of course, but a good way to share clips.

If you said, oh, I got to send this top recommendation out. You could do that very easily with the youtube channel course, best way to do to subscribe and your favorite podcast players if you get IT automatically the minute it's available. Andy, when you going to be on G B H next um .

not this week but week from thursday twelve thirty go to B G, B H. And he, is that or to stream IT liver later, or stream previous reports?

Jason snow, is that six colors that come go there for the color charts as stay for the fun. You also will hear a few podcast with Jason. You could find a little six college outcomes like Jason.

Thank you. Thank you. And mister alex linsey. Office hours not glow what you're doing on office hours these days. Well, a lot of what we're doing, we're actually .

simplifying things a little bit for a while. We're not having many of our second hours so that we can move the quality of the show forward because lagging a little bit. And so we're adding we just started four cay, so we so we're now streaming in four k which we realize IT hits a different place in youtube.

So everything sharpener for some reason, even in tenny. P so yeah so and then so we've done fork. We're moving finally to HDR sixty friends a second five got one.

So those are all getting added to the show over the next two months. And so IT will be a very pure Q N A as because we're not sure how every day will go. So is only way. But but we've decided to get really aggressive about solving that between now and the into the year. So you will see a bunch of that and some pretty interesting tests as we get .

a little closer to that nice office hours that global you can watch every morning and you can even participate. If you go to the website.

you can just go twenty four, seven. You can just go ask of a sour stock global, and you can just ask a question then if you and of course.

gray, matter, not show the show, the podcast you do for Michael crazy. Y yeah, that great. Matter not show.

Thank you, everybody, for joining us. Of course, if you haven't voted yet, I give you permission. We ended a little early, so you have six minutes before security now to go vote.

Make sure you .

be that quick. Make sure you do your civic duty. It's actually a great feeling to vote and and have your voice be heard.

And as my wife always says, if you don't vote, you don't get to complain. So vote, we will be back next week with the same old crew and the same great stories. Thanks for being here. Now I have to tell you, unfortunately, he's time to get back to work because break time is over.

Imagine we're lying on a dozen different software programs to run your business, none of which are connected. And each one more .

expensive and more complicated than a IT can be pretty stressed. Now imagine audio. Audio has all the programs .

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