Late Night Linux – Episode 308
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Hello, welcome to ever saw three or eight of late night linux recorded on the eighteen th th, november twenty twenty four. I am join with me finding.

tell me why I don't .

like upgrades cry.

Good evening. Well, hello.

yes, we may get to your key on upgrade later, but first let's do some news. Maza foundation lays off thirty percent of staff and drops advocacy division.

Good news, everybody.

Yeah, this is fine. I think .

we've seen this coming, right? We ve talked about the fact that all of their eggs are in one basket, that that basket is looking in increasingly leaky, and they must be a little bit short on cash and very, very aware that they're running out quicker than they would like. So this is not really a surprise.

IT is unfortunate, very unfortunate, especially for those people who have lost their jobs. And it's not a great sign for firefox all over. I would say I .

don't like being are usual flip on cells when there's real people involved in losing their jobs. I am sorry about that. I do feel like IT has to be a management issue in a foundation issue that he doesn't have to come to this.

And I also feel like unless something changes, there's gonna more news like this. And I feel powerful less. But mostly I my thoughts go out to the people losing their jobs.

I'm sick, so my care is low at the mind. But of all the things, advocate was not the job that was getting done very well as maybe that's a good, worse oh yeah.

maybe is the pocket team that's gone and we can rejoice.

wish, well, then maybe they have .

to open source IT and we can look after as a community here.

maybe. And this isn't the first round of layoff s that they've had in the various mozilla organizational back in february. They laid off a lot of other people, so they really have been slimming down, which I you plays. What we've been calling for is in IT.

Yeah I think that the only problem is why are the likes of michel Baker not getting act when those people who are in charge LED the ship in this sort of disaster that's gone forward and yet it's the Normal people are getting active. I mean, yes, this is the way of things, I suppose. But I think they have to Carry the count on this one because they were once and charge the entire Operation.

The sales, for example.

P5， just fine for .

american listers. I don't know what the .

prevalent is pink slip, I think it's .

gold as not yeah.

I guess we do want a more focused and perhaps in a most other foundation. But I suspect that the people that they let let go or not, the people that we would say are the people who should go there, not the people, are working on the super for us or the the moon launched ideas that they keep thinking that having to try and save the foundation itself. Actually, I think advocate for mozilla is a very important thing that they should be doing and should be much more effective as .

the messaging about this advocate stuff has been really confusing because on the one hand, they say the advocacy and global programs are no longer part of our structure, but they also say advocacy is a central tenet of mozilla foundation's work and will be embeds .

in all other functional areas.

Words, yeah, it's very on brand for them to just management bullsh speak their way out of IT.

It's sickly isn't actually a central tenet. What bullshit? Well, have they .

spoken to the relevant stakeholders? That's one. So you saying that this is not what we want IT? Probably they're probably got rid the wrong people.

The executions are making millions, like multiple millions. And you should go look on wikipedia for the various executives and look at how much they ve earned when the percentage of user ship was tanking. Like these people should just go if they had any decency, them, they would go because clearly, they aren't doing their job.

But the argument always is that tech company leaders millions, and so they have to be competitive there. But I feel like you could find someone to do the leadership roles for less because of the importance of missiles.

I think you can find a dipping dog could do a Better job of you. And maybe that I think .

there are four people who would do IT, who would perhaps just double their current salary, which get very close to also do a much Better a job. How could we do any worse? Come on. In fact, you could, i'm sure, double, low, triple or country, all of celery still not get a single c all of us together.

I mean, yeah, yeah. And I felt like the four of us could somehow to go about a job than you.

How do my bear?

But the thing is, were always hitting on mosula, and I think they deserve IT, but I don't like offering some of constructive solution or potential. Unfortunately, things like this just kind of take I haven't got anything positive to say.

I feel like we do always hit on them, you're right. And we do sometimes trying of a constructive criticism. And it's goes to the point where it's literally high. Us will do a Better job than you, you fucking useless idiots.

And actually that is china offer a solution, not us. I mean, I think we would, but almost anyone from the community understands the domain, understands the chAllenges, understands what to do with however many hundreds of millions they're still getting from google. They say laser sharp focus in their blog posts. You know, they haven't got any focus whatsoever. The thousands of people who could do a Better job with laser guided focus.

I don't think it's quite as easy as we would like to think. Like simply build a Better mouse trap is not gona work here. The real hard stuff comes from convincing people to use firefox and to be quite onest.

I don't think we do a great job of that because everyone who we could convince with our arguments is already using IT. So I don't think it's a straight forward job. However, I do think that they are too unfocused on other things.

I think a lot of people know bit privacy. And the disaster that all the ad tech companies are, you could play in that for age is surely.

But I I also think that most only gets enough support to build a good browder. I'm sure they could get tens of millions of dollars. And I think that should be enough and then just be the browser that we wanted to be and just be there. Maybe i'm naive yeah just .

be the master on yeah and let everyone else go and use the blue sky flash crime and be happy I could be a smaller thing and accepting smaller yeah.

hard to justify your wages as a sea level though, if like one hundred percent of the year, orb .

oration, I think that's actually the key to this yeah, which is incredibly cynical.

But IT reminds me of a post breaks at U. K, they need to accept that they are less relevant. They need to be smaller and don't have a giant empire anymore.

Aren't part of the eu. I don't know how far can stretch this, but like you know, the U. K.

Is this small island nation in the north of europe. And we need to just accept that. And mozilla needs to accept that they're not going to be crime. They're gonna be this smaller next thing.

And that's fine, I think so. But also that's a really important role that really is the central tenet of what the free web means, because they will always be able to hold crime and safari to account by just being the open, visible, open source, open standards, pressure on everybody.

But if they were to accept being small and not that relevant, would they still have any influence at all over crime and safe? I and web standards .

more generally, I think that's where their attraction comes in. But I would say yes, because you can't have a blink only world. You know, surely this is something that the the antimony poly legislators could focus on a making sure this kind of representations for other web rendering other than blink, you know, so firefox, almost there should always have a seat to those tables.

yeah. But if you've only got a couple of million users verses a billion users, how strong is your voice gonna be? That's the argument for us being this big organization that tries to get a billion users.

Well, I think you have to kind of kind sound like it's delete this. But if you can get all the deaf and tech people who obviously do value privacy online to be involved, there are other people are going to have more influenced, just standard users, which is a terrible weight. Look at that. But it's also realistic.

Give up. Those people have to join calls and look at web documents and stuff. And if they don't work in firefox, are just not gonna use IT.

Well, why do they not work in firefox? Because they're avoiding the standards and are using chrome specific standards that aren't really standards.

The point being though, it's A A vicious circle. If not enough people use firefox, then SHE isn't going to work in firefox and people are not to use firefox.

If something equally doesn't hurt, you're gonna fix IT either. You need to make IT hurt for every until they say either fix the standard or make the fifteen standards to unify all .

the standards. Well, I think, as usual, we have completely solved the problem for this, and we will never talk about this again.

I expected by check in the post, a large community carbon check.

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You fell in pyra K D E desktops in promoted to the same tier as canon based for a work station. So there's been a lot of the advocacy from the K D, A community to make cade a proper first class citizen on Flora and IT seems like they've finally got their way. So for federal forty two, the kd a day top edition is gonna on equal footing is going on. So you must be one hundred percent happy about this.

I'm very sick right now. See, I may say things I .

don't mean it's just what trigger IT.

Yeah, I saw this in the dark class week. Came day with man flew IT just complete immune system collapse.

Now this is good.

isn't IT IT is good. And just joking, I just don't like sort of the best things, but that's not able to do IT IT actually been bad. It's just a preference.

Yeah, I think this is great. I think the more people realizing that there's Better alternatives to no and all those the jig saw possible ones that you guys like. But yeah, no.

I think it's cool. I think it's brilliant. I think it's pretty shocking and almost open source discriminatory or that kd plasma doesn't become the default on more distributions considering how positive most people are when they experience IT. And it's not and it's been this way for years. And I understand that here's historical context by get a great move and also obviously puts pressure on gome g dator, perhaps change the way that they Operate a little bit perhaps be a little bit more amenable to suggestions I don't know.

and might even make the whole which destroy for kd. You use a bit of more competition as well? No, that's a good thing too. Imagine some poor non music goes on there, and he tries to set as this up all paper to a picture, and then realizes can also choose a color, just a color on its own. Didn't have to go into gim, didn't have to make a wallpaper that was one pixel wise, and then toilet all across the screen guy that we just cold compresses needed all around the web.

Now, come on, fight. You don't need to make an all black wall paper game. You just need to go to the comline and type in the g settings. Then you can do IT.

It's fine. This swallow to A D seven letter character highgrader ics a good.

well, apart from anything else, being a first class citizen on for a means that the plans of the desktop is gonna get a lot more knowledgeable eyes on IT, a lot more power use of eyes on IT developers. So sad means the types of people who will report bugs in a positive way and follow up on them in everything IT is exactly the kind of audience that the plastic mate has top in. K, D, more generally could do with a hundred percent.

Yeah, absolutely. I think I do think it's good. I mean, I am being so much a chicky a Better, but yeah, I think it's a really good idea.

And you know some people who might work with a lot red hot servers or whatever, that's the world they live in. I worked more in a dead by system. That's not for me and that's fine. And I think you're exactly right is the right of the user.

Well, speaking of kd, you've put in .

a this week in plasma, I have so if I was to step back to the day after a recording because I was going to be a naughty boy like will and upgraded my machine on the weekend ahead of our recording, and I upgraded the day after, and then had effectively two days of a very, very broken machine.

And I still have a partially one key broken machine since, and I done over at a combo of the ubuntu park upgrading from twenty two or four to twenty four or four to neon upgrading at the same time and a few really weird kd books and them all compiling together and IT just randomly deciding to uninstall a whole bunch of stuff. And then networking appears to have changed completely. And I had, like, broken networking.

And I could go to websites, no problem. Things couldn't reach my machine, but they couldn't. The docker that I run on local machine for a couple of things and was absolute mess.

So locally, this week, press was said that there are focused on no features in the past little room, and they're fixed in a lot of books, which is great. And I have to say, I love books. And I got them seen two people walk away and them.

IT was just, I think I I built up all those updates i've had no issue with for years. And as I, they all compounded all at the same time, IT was great. Rack.

is this the same installation that started out as carbon to? And then you just like hacked the sources and side .

graded to me on maybe some of some of not all of a good move. Finally, move at us to different disk, and it's been a different actual motherboard except on a lot. So yeah I mean, yeah, this stuff lies there from a very long time ago.

Yes, exactly. dr. Factories are like twenty years old at this point.

cleaned the parts of the mote. But the thing is, what actually broke was the actual upgrade script. And I think there was definitely some sort of book in there because IT removed things.

I didn't have a volume control in kd. Why reloaded IT back up, IT removed just like that. And I had to install that plasma budget for the volume control as loads of words of went on there.

So I don't know QA had a bit of an issue with the niantic grade process or what i'm not sure, but I almost said I welcome a sort of A B rolling distro k disco that they said, I know and then I caught myself and I stopped, but then I got sick. So well, did that contribute? Maybe.

well, if you'd had a composer immutable, able desktop fAiling, then you could just roll back. Yeah.

if I could have also return from backup PS as well. But I was going to try that either.

But you know, from backup PS what to take in ages? Well, as he could just reback. So whatever they call IT in seconds, I shouldn't just .

reinstalled as well. I shall have done that would have been quicker, and I would got there faster. But I wouldn't have learned anything or not that I actually learnt anything either.

But at least I made some burger ports potentially related to that. I've been having some weird network problems on my twenty four or four machine over the weekend. Suddenly I couldn't paying one of the devices on my network or I could, but I would IT was losing like sixty percent of the packets or something like that.

And i've think i've tracked IT down to being plugged into Ethanol and on wifi at the same time. My IP routes don't have a local network route in there. They say like next top via the rotor, but there's no I P route for the subject of my own network. And when I added that in, stuff started working again. So I haven't track down what is causing that, but maybe this is an a bunt to thing.

I think IT isn't a bond thing. No, I don't have anything, bought the actual interface, but what I do have is a network bridge, because when i'm using virtual machines, I want them after on I P addressed in the network, and that was causing all manner of problems. And I had to load IT up, drop the whole firewall, then restart docker, then bring back the far all.

And then things started to work, but I didn't get there straight away. So was a lot of wise. This, i'll working, but not working.

IT was really messed up. And I think that might be something to do nf tables as well, because there was a transition to that. I think I mean, you might have IP tables install, but IT might not really be IP tables.

I think it's a shame that makes you look like IT is. So yeah, it's a real mess and very painful as well that i'd scared me off doing any servers I was planned on doing because they're probably onto inherit the same network thick because I think it's at a lower layer. So yeah, it's not great.

All the thing I did want to mention that was kd is doing a finance run for this and there's a link in nights article about adopting a APP. If you can spend fifty year o or more on an APP, you will get a mention in the notes and stuff. Yet anybody you can donate anything on this work there to be done, to love, to stop.

And they're trying to get their drive up to thirty thousand year old s this year, which would be great, especially when no gets a million quit and and has problems. And they are only look at the third ground. I think people should throw fifty, quit whatever they for in.

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I must talk about this before on the show. I think i've definitely talked about IT on two to hf admins. So I ve got T P link A A P two, two, five saving mounted .

access point. mistake. Listen to gym.

Apparently I did. Now they work perfectly with my pixel and all my linus laptops. It's great. I get like from close to the access point, like six, seven, eight hundred mega bit a second. However, i've had an ongoing problem with apple devices.

Now I only have the m one like and like eight generation ipad, just the base model, one of them and weapons with the apple devices is I connect to the access point. I watch a video like youtube, whatever, and then IT just stops playing. And its looks like it's still connected.

IT thinks it's still connected, but there's just no network connection. And then anything from a few seconds to a couple minutes later, a connection just starts working. Again, not a problem.

Now I thought that I had narrower this down to mack address ronna ization, which is what apple devices do. And so I thought that by turning that off, I had fixed the problem, but I just hadn't really been using my per device as much. I then set up the same system for someone else, fairly close to me a hand.

They haven't moved in yet. So i'm just kind of testing IT for them and what not. And I thought i'd Better just tests on mine whether this apple issue really was fixed by the my address real ization a enough IT fucking wasn't.

And so I have no idea what i've done wrong. And I spent the best part of the day installing the controller software on a ruby pie and taking various settings, everything, and just nothing would work. And then I thought, right, well, let me just going to establish that in the other place.

I do actually have the same problem with the apple devices. And so far, no IT works absolutely perfectly roaming between access points for, you know, an hour of of testing. I was just watching the news of whatever run in the ipad and the mac.

Again, not a problem. So then I thought, right, well, what is different? Okay, well, the firm way was slightly older in this new place, so i'll let me downgrade the nothing set IT up to be exactly at the same.

The only thing that's different is the SSID in password. And I cannot think that that would be the cause of IT. So I don't oppose any of you are going to help me here. This is more a question to the audience, what have I done wrong?

The only thing I can think of is either i've got a dodgy access point, too much interference like wifi traffic from neighbors here verses there, or could this be the connections to the access points? Now, when I did mine, I was as experienced at doing the punch down and everything. But IT works perfectly with my linux and android device. I don't think IT would be that. So what am I missing here?

I don't know, but that sounds like a fault. Ty device is likely how many access points if you .

got at home for? And what I did was unplugged them all, plugged one in, had the problem plug. Another one in, had the problem. I went through IT method. Ally k, and I had the problem with all of .

the access points.

but it's only the mac having the problem.

Is mac and .

ipad problem? Well, yeah, but why is IT not a problem with exact same hardware, exact same settings .

in another house? Here's an idea for you. Try and install a VPN client on the apple devices and see if IT exists when the VPN is on.

Because I wonder if the apple devices are doing some, I don't know, I P V six D N S. Sockery that nobody else is doing. And by sticking A V P N on, you could perhaps eliminate those. I think that we're trying.

but that doesn't make sense because with the same exact excess points at a different house is fine. So I don't need the VPN in the other house. So why would IT be a problem here?

Clear, built on top of a grave. And that's the, I think cosme .

great is .

starting to feel like some sort of supernatural egeria. And the things I don't really mind not being able to use my ipad and ma C2BaLance, because he works most the time, I just can't really stream video. But i'm worried that these other people who have set up up for, who are fully all in on iphones and ipads, I gonna have this problem.

And I want know how to fix IT. I feel like if I find the fix for mine, then i'll be four armed for fixing. There's if the problem. Does crop up.

The thing is that you've probably got other devices on that network that they will not have like you could find is something to do what you're naz doing something and they're trying to hug the M I P. Here, being obnoxious to each other.

I don't know. So you are saying disconnect all of the devices that are on my land. That's not a bad shower.

Like fully replicate IT to the same extent like as best you can.

I wonder if it's worth changed my exercise days of passwords as well, just to, just to see if it's .

that stranger things have happened.

Are you running pie hole at home? No.

no, no, no. And it's the exact same ipad. You know, it's not like a different it's not like it's their ipad.

I'm taking my ipad into their house. Works perfectly. Bring at home. Have the dropping out problem.

Presumably you already google this. Did you find anybody with a similar problem?

Yes, some people and have tried everything in redit threads and in various support forms and everything. Yeah I i've tried all of the obvious stuff from gogin IT. So yeah show a late nightless stock com.

Last time I asked about this, I got a lot of suggestions, and i'm sure i'll get a lot more this time, right? Well, we'll get out of here. Then we'll be back next week when who knows what I will be, discovers the stuff probably. But until then i've been there.

i've been film.

i've been crame been, say later.