Late Night Linux – Episode 307
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Hello, welcome to episode three or seven of light lightning ux recorded on the fourth of november twenty twenty four. I am, go with me. I found.

remember who what crame.

Good evening.

And well, hello, let's get start the discovery then fAiling fire builder. Yeah, so I thought I would .

a lot the sort of space of people getting hacked off with mozilla and there's various different secure e focus or whatever focus versions of firefox you could actually build your own. And this is a application at a single binary download and IT allows you to then follow through a simple series of questions. And customer, your firefox.

what does IT come a new binary then?

Yeah, well, well, but that does IT actually build you a user of configure file. I think it's a think it's a java script file. If I remember that I hacked my own chrome one time, and I think I give a pass that onto will, and he hacked his.

But this is a way to do a fresh star. And you can configure things like, you know, enabling bit warden or ad guard, or you block origin thing, all those things by default. The funds that you can configure, there's various options for some of things like translucent menu bars on the mac and things like that. So it's cross platform windows, linux, mac and yet simple way to sort of costanza farm fox build like how the .

image that theyve ued is very much like our all websites, artworks, kind of slices of various websites.

The only thing thing is i've got more color in the logo .

that we don't know is, oh wow, one day i'm onna turn IT pink or something .

just for you are is glass .

one these days might change IT to zero zero, zero zero nine, whatever they just be just off black.

Off black can be Better.

Well, you have rediscovered the gome test top. I have.

It's been certainly to the week, almost of the day, five years since I last used going on on the desktop. And I got a new laptop for a new job. And so I thought I will go back and try.

No, well, actually, I asked around a few people and said, what's the wisdom now on desktop linux? Should I be running name? Should I be running kid? E, as you didn't ask me and I didn't ask you, because I thought I might get a slightly bias answer.

an outrageous accusation.

but I did consider Katie, but in the end I thought, you know what, i'm just gonna for a what I thought was an easy life. And just do the out of the boxes to burn to on N, L, T, S. And we'll see what would happen.

And there are a couple of reasons behind this. One was with X, F, C, I felt like I was missing some quality of life improvements in the desktop. Now I can't put my finger on exactly what I was that I was missing.

Coller, well, maybe. But now I got my death the way I like IT. I still have a pure black or the osborn style desk top, but there's just something that I felt I was missing, some new technology like maybe there were Better integrations with things.

I didn't really know what I was, but I wanted to find out what that was. And I felt like x fc was legacy old fashioned, that I want to try the new stuff. See what I missing.

Maybe I will discover the x fc is perfectly good way isn't i'm not missing anything, and i'll go back to IT. But I thought I D give the home ago and see how I go on. And so I took a few notes as I was doing this.

And the first note that I took was in capable letters, make IT stop. I did not like the initial out of the box experience at all. I felt like I couldn't do anything with that.

I felt very constrained by the settings and the way that things were laid out. And IT wasn't exactly what I wanted. Now, what do I want? What I wanted, my X F C E S.

Topic turns out, but I hadn't absolutely no way of doing that out of the box, and I knew to expect some of this. I knew that I would be limited. But I didn't appreciate before I installed quite how restricted all of that stuff is.

And I didn't like the way that IT looks out of the box. Just a lot of White space in everything. A lot of I will call IT wasted space.

But then when you look into this a little bit, the goon developers say rightly, why is IT wasted? Just because the dialogue box takes up three courts of the screen, you're not actually doing anything else while you're answering that question. So why is IT wasted space? And I thought, well, you're right, but I don't care.

I don't want you to look like this. And IT was incredibly hard to change things. I know that we're said this jokingly over the past, but I really got of appreciation for quite how difficult IT was twink gone out of the box in the way that I wanted.

So did you just install the shit load of extensions? Is that way going with this?

Yes, that is where i'm going with this. And there are a couple of specific extensions that that I think are worth calling out. Before I did that there, I wanted to work out what my actual problems were.

And the first one was that you must have all paper with the latest version. There is no option to get rid of IT. You can get rid of IT.

You can go to g settings and you can unset IT, but out of the box, you can get rid of IT the theme and the icons. I did not like the icons that the devil icon set was too friendly too far, and didn't like IT and the general overall theme. Not a fan of that either.

That's era, which is a shame, because I quite like yaro start, but now I don't like anymore. I didn't like the bar at the top. I didn't like the launch on the left.

And so yeah, IT turns out that what I like is an exceptional this top. Also, the multi monitor, multi work space experience in genome is bizarre. The thailand behavior by defauts is really, really weird.

You put a window to one half of a screen, and then IT pops up and ask you what you want on the other half of the screen. Like what I want on the other half screen is none of your business. Perhaps I want nothing.

Stop doing this. And the last thing I really didn't like was the notifications look horrible. So how do you fix IT some actual, useful, actionable tips? Now extension manager is the package you need to install is in the deep repose in the urban to archive. You can install IT and is very easy. And then you can actually get to work and start making going work for you, disable the urban to doc, disabled the tiling assistant, and then install dash to panel.

And then you can can figure IT at the bottom, and you can have feel, I come back on the right and you will start in on the left or not, as the case may be, and all your icons along the bottom, and you can get in and can to figure the way that multi works space works. So you only have icons for applications that are on that desktop or on that workspace. And that has basically got everything pretty much exactly where I want IT.

There is another extension called v shell, which I started playing with, and that does even more tweak to the dash and the size of the icons. I haven't really spent enough time get into crept with that yet, but I think I may have a few things to offer. And then finally, the themes are still at working progress.

I have yet to find the perfect theme. So if anybody he's got any suggestions for what an old fashioned theme might look like, please send them my way. I'll be grateful to to hear them.

At the end of the day, once you've install these extensions, you can make glom look like windows XP, and you can actually benefit from quite a lot of the nice integrations. The blue hand links very nice. The network manager is quite nice.

IT feels like a nice fast test top. IT has been stable. IT has been fast and pretty happy with IT now. Now IT looks the way that I want .

IT should we tell them about the two that you had accord .

in the show for the previous .

two episodes? Is not.

Is you change your recording machine? will. And you're lucky that i'm in a good mood today. I didn't shelter you.

Let's say that wire is to blame.

Well, there's a few things to unpack here. Well, as people say, the first one is just take with fucking excessive if you're onna make a one look like IT. But I suppose you didn't mention one of your motivations, which was my story about how much more battery life I got of converses X, F, C A when playing video.

Yes, that is a very, very good point. That was like my primary motivation in the first place, which made me even ask this question. I have done exactly zero investigation on that front. But hopefull, you'll do that for me, hopefully.

Yes, I still have got round to that, but I will at some point also good luck. Upgrading is all I can say with all these extensions. They're just kind of fucking break next time you go de.

L, T, S in.

Yes, so put IT off for two years, no problem.

But then hopefully the laptop refresh cycle will come around and then i'll start from scratch again. But a good point is a good point. IT may come back to bite me yet.

Just think me in gram of all these features for free. No effort required.

I must admit, I sound out a little bit there.

H, he's allowed to change the wallpaper to not be a world paper. Oh.

I think I remember the last time I used to know I had to create my own black or paper back.

White I just .

opened up, given just, you create the wall paper, save IT somewhere.

and then just use that that big so ahead, you don't need to do that.

You can type in a magic spell in g settings and they will do IT for you. But you have to know what .

is that registry editor? I pretty.

Redded thirty two.

Well, I am now tempted to try and excess, if I economy, i'm going to try all the stuff that you've just talked about well, and put IT on one of my machines. yeah.

Well, I do IT and compare notes because I want to know what what you discover will do.

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Yes, so I was away for work in a non english speaking country. So I was lucky most of the time in the fact that I was traveling with work, people that also had the APP. I were used uber on the White back.

I had to get well, actually, on the White from the airport to the site. IT was a Better sixty clea drive, and I paid a hundred and ten year old taxi bill. So on the way back, I thought, and it's early in the morning, I definitely needed to book IT ahead of time.

I like either book IT with the hotel reception or maybe control l uber. So I instill the error APP store, which is a way to get the google play store ups and IT and sells nap k essentially. And I installed the ever signed up all the account creation stuff. Then I went, oh, you don't have google play services. Notice as like.

yeah, because, as a reminder, you run the edge without any goole shit at all.

I do because i'm wise.

because you hate apps like uber.

Yeah, yeah. I do actually hate apps like you, but donnie was, I didn't have the ability to talk to the taxi driver.

Yeah, no shit. You have to walk to the taxi driver booth.

Well, there wasn't a taxi driver booth on our hotels in the arc. L, and nowhere. So if I was beside a taxi rank, would just one to taxi rank gun air porto, and then I be sorted.

But that was not to be the case because we are on the outskirts in the middle, nowhere. So I was like, fucking, I met a look. I'm going to have to book a taxi with the hotel.

And as I was gone down, I spotted somebody had posted something on one of the forms, say, uh, if you have an old phone or a warm that's not supported by the APP, there is M A uba com. And I went, right. So I went to that, and I had to do the authentically dance by IT, sending me various email messages and s and wants at a linked in properly.

IT was actually a really good mobile site. I had to go and pick where I was by zoo m into the map. You know, I didn't pick up the G.

P. S. That's fine. Not a big deal with that.

And then I said, okay, book a taxi from hotel to airport tomorrow. And yeah, don't easy. And worked perfectly. And I was actually really nice up. And all I can say, I wish more apps wear decent mobile websites rather than .

shaking fooks spying .

spicer ups ethical using uni.

I was trying to unrevealed of that. Okay.

it's like a firmer for your graphic s card on your linux system.

but you're still using uber.

I have used uber. It's done now. check.

It's just so dumb, convenient, isn't that?

No, is a river. And I tip the guy decently, because I thought this guys probably making less early by taking this trip and doing IT.

And you gave him an extra twenty cents. Well, down.

I rended up.

Did you stick a fork in your leg every two miles, as is your .

people's way? Funny, funny, funny. Yes, let i'll enjoy this. I really think you .

should have lived by the third, and you should have, I don't know, hitch to ride on the local card or whatever was passing by .

my version of.

i've glad we have not mentioned what country IT was because that might be racist.

that so did the location. Finding A P. S. In the Browns are just do its thing then. And everything worked exactly as I should have done.

No, because I think that's part of google play services or at least I think that's how a lot of people are getting all that location data. And I don't know if it's just why I ve configured to permissions i've given my brows are and of given telegram permission to get locations when I suggest.

But it's only every worked for share my location now but never track my location constantly IT does doesn't seem to do IT so I don't know that A A google play service thing not i'm not sure but to be honor IT was easy enough to resume. And well, I mean, I could search for the the name of a hotel and straight way got a and that was no big deal. But IT was actually really good.

And if you can even go to that page in in a braza detox, can see the cars driving about in various locations in its it's quite well down on. Just wish more places would do outside that. Like why do I need an APP from my fucking cinema? No, i'll just go to the website and pay. I'm paying you good money.

Take IT. I'm surprised that IT works well enough to arranger a lift or ride whatever they call IT because when I have used the APP, if I have been in central landon, for example, where getting a GPS fix is notoriously difficult, it's had a right fit about not knowing where I am and i'm not close enough to the road and all kinds of things and cancelled rides on me because IT couldn't work where I was.

I was able to just pinpoint the exact location and then say, i'll be here at this time. And I said, you're driver away five minutes. And then just before that, I got an email, I got an email and in the browser up IT went, yeah, of your driver will be there in five minutes. Okay, cool. I like, see on the map, in the the web up showing up was perfect for plan.

And what's code .

on this one falls a file of the earth saying to code on. So I don't know whether they know that or not, but that means to like star bullshit in your way or in the place. So i'm not sure if the gone for that or not, but IT is a way to compile python.

It's not meant to be fully compliable with IT like sea poyet and drop in. But if you have, say, a fairly intensive function, but you need to do or you need to parallel is something this is a simple way to use pointing code. You don't go off learn, and something completely different and you can get IT to compile down and or parallel is into a fully multi process and sort of way of doing the application and gain the benefits of even GPU and so like that and still keep all of your main code in python.

So quite an interesting project. It's nice the way that kind of solve in the problem for to develop by not changing how to develop us to interface. Or I learn a new language or new way of doing things. And yeah, I might be something for a tall about that someone might need.

This does not really cool actually just reading about IT, especially when IT does multi threats. And yeah, how do like gp support without having to modify your pytho at all?

Yeah you you're using the skills you already half and the language is adapting to you or the compiled ers adapting to you is really the way should be, not way around.

Their expertise is distill into the project itself and you just have to, I guess.

compile ot yes, really I go. I've not had anything to try IT on yet. Obviously, my code is so optimize that there's just even compiling IT wouldn't make IT any Better.

yeah. Yeah, no cool project. And yeah, just i'm looking for a reason to use.

but maybe some of your A I M L projects written .

in python, perhaps indeed I need to get in touch. You open a eye though to to let me know if i'm .

doing IT right? Gram, you recently went to .

live on to summit. yeah. And I suppose the cavity is that we had a booth, the open documentation academy had a booth at the summer.

So I was involved in its planning. We talked a little bit about IT last time about the focus of the plane ring. We were talking about the film academy.

The booth was kind of wherever really hung out, and that was good. There were loads of community people there. There was fair phone with there. And you people to the and IT was great just, you know, getting a break and talking to those people, which was kind of the highlight of IT, at least for me.

Speaking to heather, a Monica on the thunderbird project was really quite inspirational in the fact that they are getting the funding and they're doing the thing that the community wants them to do. Similarly, fair phone IT kind of brings IT to life what these people are doing for a sustainability and framework with the I actually ended up doing an interview with framework and phone, and I felt good. And in a way that outside of frost as pose you don't often see. And I know i'm employed by conomo, but the booth thing felt like a very kind of almost an unconference style. And I enjoyed IT.

And you got to run up me by making Shawn from hybrid ouch in person.

That's true. Yeah, that was great to meet Shawn. It's always funny when you meet people that you you've only heard.

So we had a moment like that. And also we make quite a few people who listen to our shows. People would actually taking the trouble to go out there. A ruby islander who always used to mention on tox radar and also listens to this very show, came up to meet me and ask for a hug at the after party party, which was very cool. So I had a very positive vibe.

So I presumedly you didn't get to see many talks then as you are at both most of the time.

Yeah, I didn't. Unfortunate the downside to IT. I think it's it's all being recorded. I think the live streams have been recorded around, I guess, up to an air, the youtube channel, and I think they're be editing them, publishing those individually along with some of the interviews song side. This isn't an advert for that. I actually it's an important part of like what a burn to is about in the community. And I felt the booth in particular or a good representation of that and .

IT sounds like the social events were pretty good.

And as well there was just kind of a part of the end of IT, which was in up. So this was all held in the hake, which i've never been to before. I really enjoyed very easy going, very relaxed.

It's kind of an example of what the U. K. Could have been, fifteen years of progressive government.

things that would never happen, that didn't have in the most.

The party was in like a church that had been taken over by the party and a and A, D, J. And I think that D, J was actually using open source DJ software, which actually wasn't chasa. IT was good.

Separate to the planning, the boots were good. And IT was good to see the community kind of be there. Some of them anyway.

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And you even can get some epsom early and if you want to get in contact text, email show at late net linux stock com. Let's do some feedback then we're at a very few people write in about firefox and zilla vt. And mike recommended zenz a.

Mike said, although it's still in alpha, it's worked perfectly well for me as my daily driver for a couple of months now. It's firefox based, but without any apparent muzzle and nonsense, no tracking. And IT has a couple of features that are pretty essential for me.

Vertical tabs on the ability to set a different search engine for private browsing sessions. Oh yeah, then has really hit the sweet spot for me. And I highly recommend IT.

I am just sceptical about these downstream firefox folks if that's even thing rebuild. I get why people would want IT for various features in everything, but they're just not gonna be able to be independent if far goes away. And i'd rather just have the upstream and get the updates more quickly and stuff that.

That's why I was thinking the firefox biler might be a Better way to go. It's almost like could you have a your own distribution or would you have a scripts that customize an already existing distribution? I think the script customizing a distribution is a less heavy, easier to maintain, a long way to do things.

short rights. Much of the community remains steadfast asty in defense of mozilla and firefox despite repeated offences and finding ways to know their user base. The general consensus seems to be some combination of its not crime um and I wish they would just make a browser with automatically enabled privacy invasive features sprinkled in every few months. My question to you is, what would mozilla firefox have to do to damage that relationship beyond repair and make you switch browsers? Alternatively, would the arrival interaction of literally any other open source non chromium browse that be enough?

no. And quite a lot. Because if you look at what the other companies do, IT is quite a lot.

Well, what if mister went all in on cypher, let's say, and had their own token and you know, did a brave essentially? Okay.

so that compares them to brave. So they're only as bad as brave there in that case.

Well, the kind is not as bad because, you know, the other baggage with brave.

okay, fair. But equally there as botas. I should they do they have cross the threshold there. The problem is, what do you do though, because you can get a separate geo rendering engine and if you're using a chromium render engine, he does not matter. At that point, the monoculture internet has arrived.

Yeah, I thinks they would have to do something really, really bad for me to move off. I can't think what that would be though.

You would have to be some massive misstep in privacy. They have said that they will never, for example, share your information about, I don't know your machine or something, and then selling that information to, for example, google IT would have to be of that order where they said they would keep your information private. And then they go in profit from IT because they need a few quid.

That's the sort of level i've be thinking along. And I don't think genuinely don't think they would ever do that. Yeah, I agree.

yeah. Similarly for me, I think if they move to a blink, for example, and gave up gec O, I would find IT very difficult to choose firefox over chromium.

Hadn't thought of that, but yeah, I suppose they could just abandon their car.

stop giving them fucked and ideas for, say, jesus, do you just hate all the software I uses?

That is what you are all doing air like jesus Christ, maybe can. Yeah, I don't know what I would do in that situation. I don't think I want to use crime.

absolutely.

But would I just use that Better?

That's a problem. There's a lot of no afraid of that. The build of a it's not a it's not very clean build having never done that myself. But yeah I don't know yeah.

I think it's important to have different there were at least two different rendering engines for the web. IT would really become a monoculture and that would become a standard basically under google control. At least eco provides a genuine alternative implementation of accessing the way, which sounds remarkable to say it's become so complicated.

I guess the more partner question might be, how would a standard exists that would be okay if there was only just a one standard?

Yeah the linux foundation should the blink engine SHE .

is you're right. What have not think about this? That's a brilliant idea. Them under low all yes.

yeah. That could with any .

legal problems and they'd .

get a lot of corporate investment.

What about this last question? With the arrival interaction of literally any other open source, non coming browse be enough. Well, no.

Well, IT depends about the traction aspect of IT because there is another browser that is built on a completely independent engine. But IT turns out the fellow behind this is a no politics guy yeah and we know what that means. So that is dead to make that one.

And also I think he's probably like on the the costume of haven't been eighty five percent there and then it's at last fifteen percent and not, yes, the last fifteen percent where you're gonna to be the likes of firefox or chromium to get all those that are weird standards where they're so many competing. So rules over the time has existed that it's not that fucking easy IT seems great to start like self driving cars. Oh yeah, in california on the highway might work most time until that meets the center divider. But not quite a simple on Normal roads.

Yeah, try some of the winding roads in the west of violence, for example. Yes, all the roads at that point.

single. Vehicle track, I think you before be more accurate description with walls and other side and cheap at the middle.

But yeah, it's like mobile oasis. You've always got the problem of chasing the big too, even if you started a browser engine today and through millions of million dollars at IT with a massive team of develop person management and all the rest of the stuff that you need, you'd be constantly chasing the developments happening with blink and geo, and you would never catch up.

Microsoft couldn't even manage to do that here. They have a bit of cash.

Yeah they could not manage IT with a mobile O S. And again, you're never gonna atch up with android and OS, and they didn't manage IT with the browser. So everybody in the end just folds and goes with crime um as a base and blink.

So I just don't think that, that is practicable. Let's just say so really, we're just stuck with firefox and is fuck all we can do about IT as they can just keep doing shit and IT would take something extreme for us to move away from IT. And that's not a good situation to be in because IT means that can get away with a lot of shit that they others SE wouldn't.

So thank all. That was a really cheerful question for us. That is not depressing in the slides, right? Well, we've had to get out of here.

Then we will be back next week when I will probably be using stuff. But what to say? Until then, i've been hard.

ve been great.