573. Is $4 Million Enough? Community Episode
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I'm just i'll see hi from stack bedrooms ins. You're listening to the earnings invest podcast.

Hi, i'm Ricky, and you're listening to the earning invest protest.

Hello, and welcome to the current events thursday and the last thursday. Every month, we discuss breaking or maybe even broken financial news with both an expert as wealth community members. Community members have volunteer to add the perspective of the common man or women behind the pod gas player.

But of course, we know that earn, invest listeners are anything but common. today. We are joined by expert josel siai, who is a created and cost to the second Benjamin park cast.

Also known as the greatest money show on earth, is the author of stack, your super serious guide to modern money management from our community. We have Ricky rucell, who is in neology st. In the angle wood, new jersey.

He major molecular biology while IT prints in university, and he completed medical school at rockers in two thousand and seven. John and Ricky, welcome to earn and invest. Today, we discuss a benzinger article by staff writer ivy Grace, titled, can you guess what percent of people have four million dollars? Here's a look at how many people reach this major wealth milestone.

Ivy rights, when you hear four million dollars does sound like a dream, retirement, nesting or an actual goal if you're thinking, yeah, right, you're not alone. Most people are curious about how they compared to others in terms of savings, but you can find them hitting such A I target. So how many people have four million dollars saved? And more importantly, do you need that much to retire comfortably? According to data based on estimates from the federal reserve of having a network of four million dollars places you in the top three percent of american households.

That's in the league group, for sure. Lee baldwin company advisory services reports about four million, four hundred and seventy three thousand, eight hundred and thirty six U. S.

Households have a mass, four million, thousand and more, and wealth. This figure represents roughly three point four four percent of all households in the country. Ricky, four million dollars. Does that sound like a lot of money to you?

Yes, and actually that happens to be my fine number of, but that's coming from the perspective of a doctor who spends a lot. Actually i'm going to throw my wife on the bus. My ends SHE doesn't. Oh my god, yeah so god knows, you know, yeah SHE puts up with me. So god knows that I definitely say things like this.

But because of our ending, likely when we retire ah, we're going to be, uh, what's going to be like public like fat fire or obese fire, uh, where we plan to spend one hundred and sixty thousand dollars in two days in today's dollars, uh, in retirement. So this is something where we have planned for. This is something that uh, according to the article, oh is is is something that is a large number, yes, but I have planned for IT and it's something where I think it's because, uh, I listen to this podcast and also sort of have a plan for retirement and part of the fire community. It's something where IT looks more like a realistic a number for me, but that's because i've actually looked at the data. I know about the four percent rule.

If I had not have gotten .

to the far community and educate myself, that would seem like an A A possible number. And also looking at the averages, IT would just actually drive me not and i'd be scared of retirement. So I feel bad for, uh, people who are reading this or not part of the fire committee or not othe wise, financially educated, this number would seem very scary.

Joe, I mean, you're an old man. Well, pass the Price of the start of your career. But go back to those days when you were just beginning as a financial adviser, did you in your own head half like this big audacious number? And you're like, that's where I have to get to.

No, no, not at all. man. Go back to the early days. What was I thinking? You know, what's funny is that I was, I was very good at talking to other people about their financial goals.

But in the early days, part of problem is I thought that those rules applied to me. I would just make as much money as I possibly could. I spend as much money as I possibly could.

I was very good spending. I was Better spending than I was at making money, although is very good at making money, which is where all my early issues with money came from but um but I but I didn't. I mean, I thought at the time I remember the first client that handed me a check for like thirty five thousand dollars.

This would have been nineteen ninety three or maybe early nineteen ninety four. I remember going through the financial plan and I showed these people that if they save their, their, their children, their one child was maybe nine or ten, and I said, if you put thirty five thousand dollars in mutual fun right now, back in night ninety three numbers, you'll have enough for your kids education. Never have to do again.

Or you can save x about per month and I was sure they were going to tell me the per month number. And instead berny looks at April and goes goes thirty five thousand box and and he and he he leaned forty go so if I give you a check for thirty five thousand dollars right now, you'll never talk me about my kids education again. And I said, well, we're not giving IT to me.

We're going to find a fun for IT. And I am not to take you know, if you give them to me, it's going on a black hole. But yes, if you put thirty five thousand dollars now and he goes April, let's let do that right now. And that blow me away. The people were thinking, know, actually had any money.

So coming from a place that was not wealthy into rick's point, you know, coming just for mainstream america, if if I wake up today and I just go to my nine to five job and you know they got this four one kate work, i'm really not sure hot works and I see a number like four million dollars. But I think Ricky nail that. I'm freaking out.

How did your clients come with a number like when they walked in to your door that first time where they like is where I want to be?

Never because the thing that I realized early on, and actually once I realized this universal laws applied to me, the goal based financial planning solve so many problems, which means we begin with the end of mind, right? We begin with what am I trying to achieve? And then we work backward to today and see what we, which is really for bernie, in April that day, I was the same thing I had done, the math on what college was gonna based on what they wanted.

And if they did exam out per month, we would very reliably probably make IT there. So no, they were always blown away by the fact that, you know, we can set up these milestones so that your thirty thousand dollars today will equal college education, or your, you know, five hundred dollars into your four one k will equal retirement. These monster, not nobody ever had the number.

Ricky am wondering. So you read this article, what did you think about the percent? So there's a three point four four percent of americans have a mass for a million dollars.

Did that surprise you? Was that high or low? Or what did you think about the general percent?

Uh, IT didn't surprise me at all. I felt like it's completely accurate. I think I didn't really want to go and verify IT anywhere. Um but um then I got to thinking that this is probably why these statements of oh, you might need four million dollars for retirement. I remember even suzor and saying ten million dollars so um no, there's a reason to make those numbers and put some the fear of god in in people because of this is like this. So okay, you maybe you don't realism in in ten million like susie, but I think her point is to put the fear of god in you because IT IT is a problem, because those averages are really not enough for a comfortable retirement.

One of my favorite lines, Ricky, is actually a soosie urban line when he said, and I love this, i've repeated the so many times you think you can say for retirement today, imagine your sixty five and you've done nothing. How will you feel then and then all said, you like, oh, I can save, I sort to get you can do something like, you seriously have to do exactly what you're talking IT about. Rick, project yourself into the future and um .

and yeah have the fear got.

I want to talk about those specific numbers you just brought up this idea being sixty five and not have saved ivy in the article goes on the right. According the federal reserve survey of consumer finances, americans average retirement savings is three hundred and thirty four thousand dollars, while the media, a more accurate picture, is just eighty six thousand nine hundred.

Although people may feel they need millions to retire, they actually aren't saving that much. How do you explain this disconnect? Because part of this article was to suggest that americans themselves are saying we need four million and yet that number is nothing like what's actually in the bank accounts. What's going on?

I don't know, I do know. I think that people don't pay attention. They don't they don't uh, apply any math.

We applied no math where we're going. As an example, I show up on day one at work in a corporate america. I get handed of uh uh H R. Benefits guide, which includes a risk assessment.

No assessment of how much money is gonna take her paycheck to reach my goal, but in assessment of how much risk I want to take, as if risk exists in a vacuum, like, oh, I don't have a very high rise, taller and so i'm going to put all my money into treasury, you know, the treasuries or lowest corporate bonds. Well, you will very safely never reach any goals right by doing that. IT drives me crazy.

This this article drives me crazy, which I think is probably why you picked IT because you knew would drive me crazy as much as you and I duck both saw several months ago. This this well known expert who said that you can retire if you've got like thirty five thousand dollars saved or forty thousand dollars safe like you can do IT and and the answer that was, well, yeah, you probably can. But is that the type of retirement that you want? And on the other side, you've got four million dollars.

And well, i'm more like Ricky. There's lots of stuff that I want to do in some of its pretty dambulla that's based on my goal. So rather than freak out about four million or say I could never save a dam and i'm going to be OK, why would I kind of do what Ricky talking about and say, what is IT that I want to do and then figure out what I need to do today to get there? And then the risk assessment, because then the risk assessment is this.

Do I have the risk profile internally to stomach what it's going to take to reach whatever that goal is? And then it's a very simply yes, no question. And if the answer is no that I got to change the goal or I gotta a change, I say I got to do something different because I know that I can't invest in in something that is the volatility that IT might take if everything else remains constant.

Ricky, I love what you think because he think goals, base savings can be good, but we're looking at the wrong goals, right? We're looking at a net worth, which doesn't really answer the question, is more like water, our life goals. And then we can start looking at risk assessment, looking at how much we're going to save, looking about how much money that's gonna.

Joe mentioned corporate america, right? There are a lot of people in corporate america. They're not paying attention to these things.

Maybe they're putting money into retirement things. You're a physician. Let's talk about physicians for a moment. Our physicians Better at this, right, where we as physicians were highly educated, where we're obviously thoughtful people or analytic people. Are we doing Better than your average joes and jeans when IT comes to putting money away and and being smart about finances because the rumor always this is the doctors .

are bad with money uh yeah we're not doing any Better uh unfortunately so um and that's why it's good to Jordan that you do this uh especially uh, as a physician and it's something where like the White investor, which jim dolly, his website and his work his business is doing is so successful. It's a reflection of how bad doctors are with money.

Smart leo taking care patients bad with money, especially when IT comes to the planning and saving because the high income, you automatically think, oh, I don't have to worry about money oh, I can like this, uh, hire a company because I make so much money. I can just hire IT IT out. I can pay a court and court adviser.

I have a guy right so I think it's even worse for doctors because of that high income when I became a doctor. Um I hate to stereotype but uh, the stereo pe hopes somewhere on phillipines, amazon and um my parents always made IT seem like if I became a doctor, I D automatically be rich, wouldn't have to worry about money, no need for planning, like, no need to planning for retirement. You can spend on whatever you want as if, like, I could rub my M D degree against an A T M in its spit.

Thousand thousand million. Like yeah like it's and it's not just philp o, it's like there's a sort of this asian uh, so of thing yeah you come to america, you become a doctor, you will all be rich. So I think it's worse because I don't think it's just an agent thing.

You know there is a austerity pe where if you are a doctor you are automatic a rich doctor. So um there was never the type of O A poor doctor. So you know, you'll be driving fancy cars, you'll be spending on whatever you want because you work so hard for IT and and because of that mentality, you don't have to plan for for for money and retirement. And that's why I thinks it's worth for doctors.

It's actually it's funny rooky because you think about a poor doctor and what an oxy born on that would be like if you see some some dr. Hood just can't rub two dicks together like what are you messing up like because IT says such a stereotype.

they think you're PHD. You cited you you .

are right. You see each basket leaving now you know um it's funny because you say it's an asian thing but what's funny is is that I grew up in west michigan and that was my problem and IT wasn't you know and I didn't care to be a doctor. I guess thought was thought that my problem was I didn't make enough money. If I just made more money, I will solve the problem.

And I into your point, you get that first check when you uh when you finish residency and it's got you know a comma in IT with with maybe a couple digits to the right and then maybe a couple times a year, if you've got partnership interest in whatever organization work for IT might have three digits to the right of the coma. You know you're getting that on top your paycheck that that that I thought would solve all my problems without the whole docker thing. And and that's the biggest lie, I think, in america, doc, is that not america, maybe in the world.

Is that to your parents point? And a lot of parents like K I just get this high income and get to saw IT. And but there's still us to be a big difference between the amount you bring in, right? This your money must I A simple math still lies big difference between the money coming in and the money going out. And that's where your network statements really, truly going to come from.

And me, so you make the point, joo, that IT isn't it's not an income issue, although having a high, high income helps you.

really makes IT IT certainly gives you opportunity, make an easier.

But we are getting back to the point of the article is IT really is a net worth issue. Maybe four million is not the right number. What do you think for your average american? I know it's hard to have this conversation without really looking at spending or individualizing IT, but so four million isn't the right number that americans should be striving towards because americans are going to want to strive toward to something like how we even come up with a network that sounds reasonable or a place to strive towards that doesn't seem unreactive.

Oh, that's so hard.

I'm about this question. You're you're the .

expert yeah but because i'm an expert, i'm like everything's in the in the grey area, right? I mean, it's totally should .

we be going back to the one million I mean, one million years? great. That sounds sexy. It's not for it's easier.

I meet a half way. I will meet a half way, which is if we increase that ridiculously load member that you said earlier that the average person has saved and we made IT, so the average person has a million dollars, like look at how many ills that solves. And by the way, just to talk about places that i've done this, you you talk about Ricky, about being asian.

One of my favorite case studies in singapore know singapore was a place when indonesia became a country. They didn't want singapore to be involved because I was just such a slum and IT was horrible. And they didn't wanted thing to do with IT.

So the early leaders in singapore really had this turned out singapore is, if not the Richard city in country, in the region, it's one of the wealthiest. And what's funny is they Mandate a temper set savings rate for everybody. You you automatically save ten percent of your paycheck.

And maybe for the first generation, that wasn't enough money. But for a bunch of people that didn't spend that money, they pass IT on to their family members. And now they're saving ten percent, may undated. And they have so instead of the U. S.

Debt economy, which we have, which the reasons we have a federal reserves to lower interest rates, why? So people spend more cash because we are a nation of letters, and we do Better when people borrow. Singapore is the exact opposite.

IT is short term and obvious the way the us. Is organized. I think a short term and obvious that people get into debt, we're going to get there quicker.

The singapore and system is more long term and not so obvious. IT was a pain in the asset first, i'm sure, for a couple generations for singapore to get where they are now. But look at the result, the average net worth in singapore is so high and and abused this analogy before.

And I know those people, you know walk in their dog or whatever, go on. Yeah, we can do that here. That's B. S. IT is so what we can totally do that here, Ricky.

We are talking about like one million as a baseline or even what they do in singapore, which is a certain percentage that you save as a baseline. Let's look at the other side. We're talking about four million dollars in this article.

Is that fat fire? And what is fat fire? Because this is something that we talk about all the time in the financial independence community. How does that look like in your life?

yes. So back to that. Yes, four million would be by by number because, uh, yeah, that fire H I picture sort of migrate type IT as traveling a lot.

I do want to spend on first class. I do want to spoil my grandchildren, uh, during retirement. Uh, I do want to possibly maybe have the option of buying up.

Well, given the recent hitches in florida, maybe i'll try to find another beaches. But like right like maybe buying a property and walk on the beach. H with with my wife. Um in retirement, these things are expensive. So IT goes back to actually knowing how much you're going to spend uh in this article what really pisses me off um there is like oh oh you you might need four million but then there's ads there for done for ducal advisers or oh look up these good stock tips like there's advertisements that are not going to get you h to retirement uh.

no body adds .

oh my god yeah it's terrible. You you look so I mean, yahoo takes any type of advertising, but when you have an article about saving for retirement and there's ads that are going to lead you away from more time at saving, it's just sort of oxymoronic, uh, uh, as you. So uh, the thing is I I plan to what that means and IT means getting things that are expensive by traveling when the kids.

So that's what fat fire or beast fire means to me. Um so I don't want to keep driving my heart anymore as well like so planning on baby inning and convert. So I have these things.

I have a plan of picture in place and I sort of know that it's going to need a dollar amount, specifically around one hundred sixty K I I might be off uh but I think it's I know that uh, a place to to start. Um I think if people would know sort of that side of a goal, that type of number, they have a picture in mind of what the retirement looks like. They can see like, okay, that that's very expensive.

I am going to have to be obese. Fire, i'm gonna need that four million or the other way. 四年 lucky driving the honor。 I'm not a car guy. I don't need to travel that much, or if I travel, I just go camping.

I can use my thirty year old by camping tent, right? So if you plan for retirement and you see that they're not couldn't need a lot of stuff and you'll be happy, then your fire number goes down. Um and I thought that article didn't really any point to that. Yeah we pointed to the problem oh, you don't have enough for retirement, but I didn't give that goal of how do you plan like what is the goal? Actual number and IT should be based on how much you think you're spending is going to be retirement to make you happy.

What what I really like about Ricky, what you said is I love the fact that it's a vision, like I see the vision of you walking down the beach. And the thing that frustrates me is when in for a lot of money geeks, IT is this, we spend a lot of time on the money, on the on the financial peace. But because there's no vision attached to that, IT makes you so much more difficult.

The vision is truly, I think, what we rely on to get there. I think that makes the goal stick here. IT makes IT more likely, which what I mean by that is you you're much more likely to go after IT to stick with IT when downturns happens like two thousand and eight or you know there's this, we are pandemic and the stock market goes down.

You're not at a panic because you've got this vision. Getting you there is funny in my sees. When I was a, when I was a financial planner, we would do that at the beginning.

I would have crayons for these fifty year olds out on the table, and we would, I would have them draw things, draw picture, do not use any words. draw. And I can draw.

And it's funny, as a lot of people, my audience couldn't drop, but they were having trouble with the stick figures or no stick figure, whatever they were just having the trouble with. I don't have any vision. And because they don't have any vision, they don't know that, you know, one hundred and sixty thousand, like what I love was one hundred sixty thousand represents a lifestyle. I like the Green kids. I like the yeah that's the that that me is the magic of what Ricky you were talking about.

We are here, jos C. I and Ricky sella, and we are talking about a bena article by staff writer ivy Grace. total.

Can you guess what percentage people have? Four million dollars? Here's a look at how many reach this major wealth mile's stone. We're going to take a short break and dog g, and this is the earn and invest podcast.

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we are back with you sell, see, hi and rick seller. And we are talking about a benza article about what percentage people have four million dollars. Joe, I want to jump back into the article.

IT reads. The problem is compounded by many people relying on online retirement calculators to figure out their savings s needs. While these tools can be helpful, they often over estimate the amount of money required, leaving people feeling overwhelmed or raged. Talk about the role retirement calculators play, especially in someone who doesn't necessarily have a financial advisor who sitting at home on their computer doing this themselves.

So let me start off with this piece because this piece then says, you know, these online retirement calculators are often on a website of somebody whose who rick was talking about earlier as a non british ary financial sales person really who's has the calculator rig to maybe shows no social security right? Uh to to minimize the amount of benefits you would receive, which is going to pop out this huge number in this panic so that you save into something they're offering on the website. By the way, all of that is true.

What's frustrating is for a guy who's met with hundreds of people who are not financially savy, many of them, some of them were very savy, incredibly savy, but some that weren't my problem with this language is this, we scared the hell out of people that need to help the most with language like this. And I would posit, and this will makes some people angry, that even if this, this non savy person gets into this crappy product, they are Better off than doing nothing by far. So the question is, efficency is IT Better to do nothing or to be seventy five percent rationally, right? A high fee crappy product, whatever.

But it's still a growth fun. And a growth fun is what you need. I'm going with the seventy five percent, right? I feel like when I moved over the financial media, what bothered me was the attention to fees.

And I think that the dog be wrong. Fees are a drag on, and we need to fight. And all things being equal, if we can lower the fee to get the same thing, great.

I'm all about that, but I feel like a lot of financial writers make these number one because they don't understand what to help they're talking about and they really don't have the depth knowledge to to dive into really what we need to be doing that. That drives me crazy. I would rather somebody went to a crappy calculator than what we truly see now, right? Our finance stars go, oh yeah, those crap calculators.

They're horrible average person. I I would bet what's the number going to be? Eighty five percent of people have use zero calculators.

zero. I would rather you went to the crappy st. Calculator online through a horrible website and you use that calculator.

Maybe i'm being a little high herbal here because now I think you as some places I would I be more fed if you went. But just generally, I would rather use a crappy directionally correct calculator to do what Ricky talk about earlier. You know, scare the hell out of you so you get moving.

That that fear will help you then find Better tools, maybe Better advice, and you'll get Better as you go. I think the average person gets Better as they move toward the goal, and it's the experience of beginning. It's the same reason why um these are the stock market games with no money. Don't work sure you're buying shares in the company with fake money. You know every piece of research is shown when you do the fake online money with fake um when you do the fake uh stock market chAllenge with fake money, you have no emotion and emotion is a huge part of the game and controlling your emotion is a big part game where you've real dollars in you act completely differently.

Yeah, I will give a good question about whether perfect is the enemy of good. You know, before I understood my finances, I had a financial adviser, and I eventually fired my financial adviser. But the truth of the matter is, yes, the financial adviser didn't get as good returns as i'm getting.

They certainly got much Better returns than effect money was sitting in a money market somewhere. And so sub optimal financial advice Better than no financial advice. And I know that's not you because you've been engaged in paying attention and learning and learning, but you know, you see in your colleagues all the time, these are people who make a lot of money.

You ever look at them be like, do just pay for the financial adviser. You're going to pay a high one percent or two percent A U M. But it's Better than what you're doing now.

Uh, yes, but yes, you want the keyword that you said is good of unfortunate. I was taken uh, by northwestern mutual um they are the church company that is try to profit of you uh and they offer financial advising uh so what my buddies from high school was A C F P financial advisor working for northwest mutual. We were not anywhere close to so so yes I think good was great.

But um you want to make sure to vet uh whatever advisor you're getting. And you can't just rely on A C F P designation because it's not illegal to even be A C F P and still sell products that are detrimental. So I agree with you that definitely perfect is anyway good.

You don't need a perfect financial adviser, you just need a general direction. But you really need to stay away from uh, the companies like northwestern mutual who they have a profit motive and they are selling product. Um and uh so uh I definitely had to be careful because sometimes it's very hard to see are you going in a good direction or not.

I thought I was going a good direction with north's western mutual, their financial code advisors. I actually have tfp designation, uh a lot of them but they are still incentivize to not really meet my retirement goals and ah I was not anywhere near meeting my retirement goals or doing well financially. Uh so uh for most people, yes uh, enemy is the perfect of good but it's hard sometimes to recognize what good is.

Well, well and in that a great point and there's two things that I would bring up. Number one, Jordan, and you saying that you get Better, you got Better returns. That your advisor got a good financial planner is not about the return.

A good a really good financial planner is your agent whose helping you dove tail your entire financial plan. So good financial planners is making sure that your risk management strategies in place, if you get a car accident in and i'm going talking about insurance, right, i'm talking about, hey Ricky, you've got this fifty thousand dollars sitting in cash. Why do you have zero deductable on your our insurance? I mean, maybe IT turns out you guys are horrible drivers and is probably a Better idea for the insurance company ity to take that risk.

But for the average person, right? That's ridiculous. The reason you have the emergency fund, that is your number one insurance policy. So because you have that, we can raise the deductable.

So having a coherent a risk management plan um is a big part of your tex ratee is feeling your in your investment. So what I hear anybody say, well, I fired my adviser and i'm getting a Better return. Now i'm like I don't think you're working with a good person just because you you're only judging them on return.

You're not judging them about my quality of life and having a smart person next to you that you can argue with. I've said this out loud and and duck. You were at the camp five where I think I even said this, my perfect financial advisor is a guy in the fire community who goes by the name bigger n uh, in bigger is a his real name is caston.

His amazing. He is not a financial planner. He's not A C fp. He's not a fetish. I'm a guy that did this for a long time.

I've spoken in all the major media places for a long time. Why would I go to this? Clearly unqualified, that because he IT bees, incredibly, incredibly smart. And he'll fight with me. And I know that if I hire him, he would have my best interest at heart.

Now I know what i'm looking for, and I and I go in with, I want somebody who is how intelligent, will have my, my, my back and will help me make good decisions. And so then for me, I could then risk the fact that he's not A C fp, not a fish, he doesn't have any licenses. I could risk all that.

I wouldn't say that to this audience, right? Start off with all those things. But i'm hoping that is people are hearing me say this.

We're widening the field. We're widening IT to go. Oh, smart people sound themselves with smart people who will chAllenge them and who will help them because i'm emotional about i'm pretty smart. I mean, i'm not smart sky.

I'm not i'm not a freaking neuro surge or whatever the help you are rick, the holy cow like, yeah, i'm nowhere near that smart but but I can the drawing an argument in the five community is what your smart not to do this yourself is that a puppy and smart? It's about the fact we are human beings and were emotional. And if i've got somebody else helping me along the way, like, that's what smart people do, which is why.

And i'll end with this on my little tight right here. I love what the retirement answering and Roger whitner says, and I paired this over and over because I love IT. Any person who calls himself an advisor who leads with product and not process is not an adviser.

An adviser helps you think Better. Northwest mutual people, generally, you're going to try to do a plan so they can sell you some life insurance, right? I don't I can be i'm sure there's some good people at northwest mutual, so I don't know.

But generally speaking, that's the formula at northwestern mutual the way that they're seen in the marketplace. They're leading with product. So if somebody y's talking you about the product, you don't have. You need to stay away from those people. But if somebody he's gone in, Ricky, I think that you need to think about your text strategy and how there's all tough tails together and and begin with the end of mind. And you know that then the hell that might be somebody I really want you to help me out and I know for me and my personality bigger is .

that did so, Ricky, we talked about already with you what enough looks like do you think you'll be able to stop making money and start actually spending when you hit that number, whether that's four million for you or whatever IT is? Do you think that will change your activities? Will you retire? Will you be done?

Uh, definitely. I think I will change the the sort of pace that i'm working yet. Uh, so uh really I you know I am a doctor.

I love what I do, but you know there is a lifestyle um funding with my work as well. So I continue to tell the E R, oh sure i'll see that that patient problem you know oh h it's after hours. I still see that patient would.

I'd love to go home and like to my kids and sure I would. But my son gets private soccer coaching. And a hundred dollars is about ten thousand box for, you know, getting paid one hundred dollars.

There are basically that is we found my daughter is into dance oh my god so I don't know how none doctors afford having their kid and dance uh so uh I am unfortunately i'm slave to the money and so I am working harder than I would like but when I do reach um my F I number, i'm definitely gone to go home and tell hey you know i'll see that patient tomorrow. My color will see that patient tomorrow. unfortunate.

Seems like my kid will be um already out the house by then by the time or retire but then yeah i'm going to tell the E R yeah no, i'm out of the hospital. I'm leaving you know it's not emergency that just admit them uh my colleague or maybe i'll see them tomorrow. Uh, i'm onna eat dinner with my wife, you know so h so definitely I think I still love I I hope to still love seeing patients being a doctor um but i'm going to sacrifice less of my personal life once i'm retired.

It's it's it's funny, Ricky. You are somebody that h exudes that you love what you do like you just I can feel that we've talked at all about what you do, but you just exude fact that you like IT. And I will just tell you in the future, setting those boundaries based on past client experiences from when I was an advisor could be really tough, really tough because you also come across as a guy that when you are at home with your family, you love in at home with your family. But when you're work, you love being at work.

And then so depends. My kids are find your night.

But the joys of that part of the beauty, maybe that kind of post this whole article together, is, you know, IT might not make sense for us to set up these huge networks goals depending on who you. Now i'm all into safety, and i'm all into the idea of protecting yourself in your retirement. But realistically, a lot of us might actually find something we like doing that continues making us money and that four million dollar network may not be cessile for the lifestyle we want to build. Maybe like Ricky, he'll probably want to keep working because hopefully he likes his job and that's a you know make him money whether he plans to or not.

Yeah, i've A i've got a friend who's a who's a paleologus and he is in his early sixties, wonderful guy. He's he's like my second opinion dog. I don't care what the procedure is, whether it's IT especially or not he's the guy going to for the second opinion because everybody says you don't don't ask co, ask who who's your who?

Malton is my hooo. He's just super smart tude. His dad is in his mid eighty stock and he's still practicing medicine now.

He practice IT on his he practiced IT on his uh um and his ground. So he goes in two to three days a week. He works maybe half the speed or three courses, the speed that he used to.

But it's the same thing he does IT because he loves IT. I would never, by the way, build that in your financial plan when I would meet a client that was what Ricky exudes or melcomb dad exudes, you know, you want to continue do when you love IT. Whenever a client had to work to make that fat fire number happen, we had back away.

Because you never know when disabilities is coming for you, we just start to stack in bedroom. Show recently that the average healthy life expectancy in states is only sixty six. So if people retire between sixty five and sixty seven on average, and health is ends at sixty six, our retirement years are not going going to be the hey, I can work part time and do you know the travel that I want to do and the part time work will funded that might be out the window because we're not healthy to do both. Well.

you're on Ricky. I wanted to thank you for coming on today. Is I think about this article, I think it's both good and bad, right? I mean, it's kind of bad because four million is just not likely for a lot of people.

They're setting themselves up to feel first started, maybe even quit before they start. On the other hand, it's kind of like the cold water in the face, like you're gonna need to plan for this. And the sooner you start thinking about IT, the sooner you start saving and paying attention, the Better it's gonna be. I want to end the episode way and every episode by asking you both what is up next and where people can find you. Ricky, you first um you actually updating for the White code investors that true yep.

that is true. Uh basically I want uh, all doctors to not the same, make the same financial mistakes. I did avoid northwest mutual at all cost. I mean, the talks about northwest mutual.

the way I talk about back of america, I talk about bank of amErica that way.

Ricky, I guess bank of amErica might be a the the army right? You were in the military. Um uh northwest mutual has a pencil for screwing physicians a jim dalley for the White on investor was sold whole life from northwest mutual.

Jim M. E. Turn or the physician philosopher was denied disability insurance and can never get disability insurance again through the northwest to neutral financial adviser. Um so uh it's something where uh yeah I get very we could invest or just because I don't want people to end up like me um or make the same mistake.

Jim dilated or or or gb Turner and and um and and also what I was saying before, a lot of doctors because of the high income don't think they have to worry about money. Let's hire or northwestern mutual. I just pay them to handle IT where that is a huge mistake. And I think our high income allies us to worrying about our morning. And Ricky.

if people wants to get touch with you as they're easy way for .

them to do that, yeah so they could always tell me it's my lesson letters, my first name where cella ri so R A C L A R I at gmail that come I love talking about personal finance, especially helping not just dockers but anyway with like financial questions so .

and geo i'll see hi tell us what is happening with the stage Benjamins podcast and ah how can we get in touch with you if you want to?

All the podcast is fun, but you know it's even more fun right now. We actually are releasing a product which is never happy. We have a podcast for a long time.

But i'll tell you what when IT comes to workplace benefits, as we talked about earlier, people don't know what they're doing. They might not trust their hr. They might be looking for more insights beyond just this job, like, why would I choose that amount of money? Speaking of life insurance, why would I choose? turn? Life hurts.

How much should I choose? What's all the stuff? So we've created a guide to your benefits you buy at one time and you have IT.

As long as we make IT in the average person every four point two years, they change jobs. The government changed the game. When I started business.

There was no such thing as an h sa. As an example. There was no rough for one, kay. So as the game changes, is your job changes, as your company decides that they're going with a new benefits package use, go back to the stacking Benjamins benefits guide, open that thing up and every month for adding to IT, so stack edgin documents, lash benefits and you can read more about what he tall .

about joe sell, see hi and Ricky or sea. Thank you so much for being on earn and invest today.

Thanks again. Man, that was fun. Ricky.

that was a black.

That's a rap.

Earn an invest is now part of the airwave media podcast in network and visit airwave media die. Come to listen the subscribed to this show as well. other.

Hey, everybody, I wanted to spend a moment talking about these community episodes before I do. I wanted to invite everyone to join me at the White coat investor conference that is february twenty six in san antonio, texas. This is for physicians, dentists and other high net with individuals.

And we talk about personal finance and financial literacy. I will be keynoting this event, and I would love to see there. And you can get a huge discount.

You go to W C I event that com again, that's A W C I events that come. And you can use the promo code Jordan two hundred to get two hundred dollars off in persons registration again, that W C I events that come. I would love to see you there.

Let's talk about community episodes. And the reason why I want to talk about this is usually I have people on the show who are experts, either authors or entrepreneurs or financial independence experts, people who have gotten to the place that many of us want to go. But I realize that taking advice from experts only gets us so far.

Part of the reason why I decided to do these community episodes is we relate Better to people just like us, people who are going through what we are going through, people that we can see yourselves walking in the same shoes. But I was wondering how this was gonna. I do these community events. I'd basically have people on shown on these community episodes, but they are untrained, they are not pod casters, they're not people who are used to being interviewed.

Will they show up for the podcast recording? Will they have important things to say, things that are relatable, things that help the audience members? I really didn't know the answer when I started doing these episodes, but I will tell you, person for person, all of my guests have always brought important viewpoints and important information to the four.

Basically, I found that my community members can speak to some of these issues, just as well as the experts know they haven't done one hundred percent deep dive on everything. But their perspectives are valuable, and in some ways, even more valuable, because we relate to them. This is not someone who's spend their whole life learning about finances or business or investing.

This is just an average everyday joe or gene. They go through a lot of the same things that we go through. So i've been really, really excited, really happy with the quality of my guests from the community and the things they've had to say. And i'm hoping you feel the same.

I'm hoping you feel that these community episodes have brought a new viewpoint, a new productive and have Brown and deepened the conversation that we have here on earth, an invest and that you have in your homes and your business places and your schools wherever you're talking about money. I hope that hearing from the non experts has been as gratifying as hearing from the experts. I'm going to .

continue doing .

this community episodes right now. We are doing them once every month. I may try to make some space in the podcast to have more community voices and deciding right now how to do that, but I think they are certainly add to the expert information that you get here, hopefully with every podcast episode.

And we will see how we can brought in the expertise, not just the people read books, not just the people who ve started podcast, not just the people have built seven or eight figure businesses, but people like you are out there living our lives, trying to decide how best to live our lives, how best to manage our finances and how best to be happy. So tuning here, earn an invest podcast, hear more from our experts as well as our community members. Thank you so much for being part of this community.

And don't forget, if you want to be part of the community episode, let me know. Easiest way is to email me a dock g at diversified 点 com or you can just go to jord gramm that com or earn an invest that cabin， go to the contact form. But if you're interested in being on one of these community episodes, there is a little bit of waiting list, but i'd love to have you on.

yes. I just wondering who i'm going to be like sued by and have to take this things down because either like bank of amErica north a who's gonna .

be coming after me after I so jim, I when I was writing, I was bad mouthing work was mutual and so said, okay, you can't bad me out I ve already gotten threats for a libel from northwestern mutual and I was thinking like a run di was like all the work like that who should not be named like it's incredible how um not only are these company is allowed to screw doctors or grow people, but they also use the legal system to protect themselves so that you can badd mo .

continues changing their habits, you know, IT mean, versus changing their habits.

Yes, it's that profitable to sell product and screw people rather than just oh change your way changer and you know so um yeah you know i've never looked into the finances, but IT must be very profitable to do this, right? So and that's .

why they do IT. So I want to I went to a conference at me. I got invited and IT was IT was by um the biggest of association and thinktank around uh around annuities.

And they invited a bunch of regular people. They invited people from the industry, from all the different companies and then they invited members of the press. So Michelle singletary was there with me, rick at of them was there a gene? Chaskey was there.

And and IT was interesting sting, because the the thinkings people from MIT would talk to the regular people about what they and what regular people wanted was a lifetime in chemistry I can't outlive is an amazing thing. Like you say pension everybody like how yeah give me a pension, which is what newly supposed to be. And then you talk to like the link and financial people. I remember that guy, that guy just. They have such an organization, a legacy organization of commission base sales people that they don't want to dismantle and those people and you're going to have they're gona have all those people just with pitch forks if they try to change their compensation structure, right? It's so bad that these some of these companies spent the entire time pretending they weren't hearing what these real people were saying, which IT was funny Michelle single Terry even even just brought that out and goes, ah you're not listening, you are not listening and and the dude from the dude from linking was just IT was like, oh, i'm listening as you shake in he said, now i'm totally what's going to and and I left that this is a sad thing I left realizing some of these companies, just to your point, they're so entrenched that that they would rather not look in the mirror um theyd rather not IT was so disturbing that said, you know there are great low cost unities out there for for people if they need lunch evd insurance .

but right yeah but but usually that's only a spear right now. Do like yeah that's the tourist form of ity otherwise it's anything about 哦 yeah probably good right .

now just this ugly thing。 Well crap if if you're not buy in the single payment immediate unity, you um you know nobody ever notices IT like if it's a deferred annuities, let's say a defer variable annuity uh or get index unity .

like people buy .

these .

things .

and then they never do a tize IT. If you have a product that is specifically made to be annuitity ed and ninety nine point nine percent of people never annuitity IT, what does that tell you about the product?

Ah yes, didn't even know why. But actually I also had a, as I was getting financial literacy, what wasn't only the whole like I had a variable annuity.

Oh my god.

within an I R A.

Oh my god.

yeah. Oh my god, yet. So, uh uh and this is this is somebody. So so technically he wasn't A C F P. Yet when he was part of north was mutual.

But he gotta a see if p license during IT and he continued to say, um on the whole life, uh, policy, i'll keep the variable annuity within the I R A. Oh, you can do the back to roth because you'll be pro a because you have money in an I R A. Never told me when he got A C, F, P.

To sell the northwestern mutual al, uh variable annuities in the I ra, then transfer the to my work for N K. Then I could do the back to a roth. So he got A C F, P.

Two years into my whole life policy. I fired in five years. Five years later when I got financial litter IT like, but and and the C F people were, I actually complained, but the C, F, P.

Were responded. He's actually do registered, right? He he's still registered. So he yeah, he was like he .

wasn't acting in a physical matter because he's he with his ducks.

right? They can on one thing .

in the friend, well, you're got to be kidding me. If I heard a patient is M D. I lose my license. Uh but uh, as A C, F, P, if you don't active a fiduciary, you know this relaxation because he has a series seven, series six.

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