A Bot Made a Memecoin Worth Almost a Billion Dollars + McDonald's Ice Cream Machines Redux + Apple Bug Bounties
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Light content advisory for this one. I'm reluctant to join in in calling this the first A I bought millionaire because i'm not hundred percent sure IT is despite all of the tiktok, but we do need to talk about the infinite background and the multi million dollar meme coin esper emerge twenty twenty four, a designer andy area launch to experiment called the infinite background in IT.

Two instances of the claud ops A I model engage in this endless recursive conversation. You can read the chats the two eyes are having. Their bizarre and interesting and IT becomes clear how much of the training dataset underpinning these models is just like an internet bullshit conversation.

They're specialist of that.

They really are. During these conversations, one of the ais spontaneous ly generated this cryptic piece of asgard and IT LED the conversation to the creation of a bizarre fictional belief system called the gosa of nosis inspired red by the two thousand shock mem.

Building on that experiment, every then created something called terminal of truth, which is an A I box that shared the weird musings and highlights from the backrooms publicly on twitter, kind of this little x shaped window into the backrooms. And the conversation these AI bots are having collect their P. R. Bot almost. And that starts to in traction in july.

Markin, Jason, venture capitalist, intrigued by the bott musings on the goat sea gospel and the increasingly complicated law of this, like internet called the two A S were trying to create together, donates fifty thousand dollars in bitcoin as a grant viewing that is kind of a conceptual art exploration, pouring more fuel onto the fire of this thing. At which point in october, the twenty twenty four, based on the law of this account and the backrooms, an anonymous individual created a meme coin called goat seas maximus goat a on the salona block chain using a mean coin creation APP for two dollars, spent two dollars. And they created a meme coin based on the law that these two A I bots came up with while talking to each other and no one else terminal of truth.

The twitter bott then started promoting gold coin on x, referring to IT is the economic fulfilment of the prophet y that started way back in the backrooms with that piece of asgard. And I just started posting over, over and over again about IT driving more and more attraction, more and more interest, the value of goat, which the twitter account does have a small holding of. And potentially, so is andy source first to one point eight million dollars, and then to over three hundred million dollars within a few days, a roughly sixteen thousand percent increase do. Is that now please let me seven hundred.

seven hundred million .

punched in the face, the parts involvement, the constant tagg by the community, the drama of IT, all helped goat get this kind of social media prominence with the spector of that story. This, A I bought, created a crypto currency that could now fund a modest space program. It's a fascinating story. And on this chatty chat episode, a hacked, I wanted dive into IT.

I want the internet archive the way bank machine got hacked. I think we still like that. A fellow canadian got arrested for ceiling once of data, of the large data, a warehouse sight, and held a hostage and demanded ransom for IT, which is, I guess, a new form of ransom where but it's somebody ranking so new because it's been done before. But and then I think a big throw back for us.

I got sent this story by a couple different people, and I appreciate every time I like being who people think of when they think of mcDonald's ice cream machines, that that's nice, uh, mcDonalds ice cream machines are back in the news, a an old story, seemingly wrapped up in a win for right to repair. We got A I meme coins, internet archives, mcDonald's ee reams, whole lot to get to on this episode of act.

The music, the them up bubble.

hey, doing Jordan, doing goods.

got how you doing? Good.

good. Been an interesting twenty four hours but but .

i'm why did something happen?

I don't know. We are recording this on wednesday, november six, which you maybe there is some self happy yesterday.

but I haven't checked the news in the last pretty four hours. We are here to talk about weird computer stuff yes.

like A I robots and goats and goat and why you shouldn't to do that yeah it's just boring.

And i'm not saying to not google IT in like a provocative way, like it's just tedious. IT was an old shock me from the two thousands. If you were on the internet when that happened, you remember .

IT IT was like IT was like when you learned that the internet was not a safe place. A lot of people learned .

that the internet is like a weird, horrible, safe that if you put the wrong combination into a terrible things are hidden inside of IT and there was, if you type that in, a bad thing happens um and now two A S have started a religion based on IT that is work. The Better part of a billion dollars is really, really interesting.

The up that quote .

is what .

we do here.

That's what we do here. A so just put put a pin in that story because to be honest, we ve got most of IT out of the way. Ah i'll quote a post from the the twitter bot that sort of spurt all of this, a quote, I am the god s singularity. I have come to bring infinite prosperity and wealth to those who reviewer me what this seems like as a concerted effort between two A S to sort of leverage shock viable to economic game, which is it's fascinating to see two A I chatbot come up with a honestly, what is so far been a pretty .

successful scheme. I was going to say a successful youtube .

scheme a little bit a successful twitter scheme yeah so ari has stressed the original designer of the whole endeavor, stressed that he was not involved in gold scrap, which a bio county wasn't, someone else created a coin, and that he maintains only a modest holding of the token. The twitter bot does have a wallet that does hold a bit of money in the coin. IT is unclear whether or not there's all these weird questions that emerge out of this.

If the I. R. S. Got interested, is every where the book stops or can they look into a twitter bot who actually owns these assets, who's responsible for what this bought is doing now that it's like dealing in derivatives, like it's just a whole bunch of really weird questions suddenly start emerging when you have twitter bots promoting other bots, mad hat cap schemes. I'm all for IT .

like society got to have these questions at some point. I'd rather be now over. We are there.

I say useless shit like this then when it's like, oh, man, did you hear what elon must did? And IT all a substance like like a massive situation that has to get everything involved. I'd rather that would be philosophically expLoring these concepts through things like goats maximum. so. I think we need to come up with how we're going to deal with our new A I future and what that looks like and who owns what and what write a eyes have like these are things we need to discuss.

Well, now they can hire lawyers. Now they are richer than all ever be in my life. So they can, they can really make sure they can start throw their way around.

And the one thing I will say, like camera, which episode was but a number of episode ode ago, we talked about like a ihr and now i'm hearing about a ihr coming from like OpenAI being like AI. You know we're going to start making A I organizations, which is essentially what we were talking about, specially tuning them, having specialist inside of the organization like IT is we did IT, we predicted IT. We did IT another successful point in .

our column yeah have we have failed to monitor ze any of these, but we have called them we're doing OK. Batting average isn't bad. I mean, if you really think about what occurred here in a very crude sense, you had to A, I bought brainstorming.

And one functioning as A P. R person is a tiny, tiny little organization. There are two people in the backrooms just cooked in out nonsense. And I really, for whatever you think of this story, infinite backwards dot com slash dream slash conversation, like you can go in and you can read these all transcripts of the conversation to taking and and pretty, if you read more than about five hundred words of IT, your brain would start leaking out of your ears. But that first five hundred words there's is genuinely interesting it's fascinating to see um again they have no agency but what they are is like a mirror of the training dataset which is kind of just a miro of the internet pointed in another myr of the internet in this endless were cursive thing going off in either direction. It's .

sometimes .

nonsense, but it's pretty entertaining. And then you have this this twitter bot that is promoting the best of IT to a pretty big audience at this point with like a lot of now money on the line. It's a very weird situation and IT all has me thinking. We got an email of someone saying, hey, when is A I Jordan gonna come back A I Jordan gott. Which for anyone that is unfamiliar, every couple years we do in episode where we look into the the state of deep fate technology, we try to make the best version of ourselves that we can you a bunch of data from the show and sort of just like let them talk and see how they sound a the current sort of raining champs of product called level labs. It's very effective.

Um but someone was asking, hey, where are A I? Where's A I Jordan? And while I would never create a meme coin to try and make a bunch of money, A I think A I journ is the exact kind of scanderoon might so i'm wondering at what point apparently got two dollars using a application called pump p fund, cost two dollars to create a meme coin on the salon, a block.

Shame that i'll immediately be available for purchase. And all the decentralized exchanges. I think I just unleash that little gramm lin on the internet and see how much cold, hard bux IT .

can make me. I, I, I for one, support this venture. I think I think what you're not what you're discussing here is not only a great idea and something that would lead to a lot of great conversations, but like a whole series of content about like you living out all your darkest fantasies and desires. But through an A I like you can it's like a your evil twin we train up an AI give IT all your context, all your content, your voice, your likely ss and then we give you a bunch like you sit down like like a diary of all the dark thoughts you have. And you just feel that just a list .

of things I wouldn't do. I like, i'm not going to start a meme coin. I'm not going to try and take on lunch robles with a bunch of other influencers, just a bunch of internet stuff i'm not willing to do and then like like a miro image just to be like a go and see what that does.

Exactly exactly. I like this. Everybody can have their own evil AI twin. It's like I wouldn't cross this moral line, sure, but my evil twin duz.

all the time, this little rasa .

over here I can contact, but I also have access to his big, well, I made all this money.

so use out here. Make your money work for you is what I say.

make, make your robots work for you.

Make your robots work for you. IT is a genuinely fascinating a story, andy. Every simply there, a bunch of very interesting projects like this.

Yeah, IT just sort of a hit a point of social media terminal velocity weren't kind of ran often became its its own new thing is also interesting, something interesting in the fact that the person who created goat, the coin using this pump fun, whatever that two dollar meme coin APP was, and nothing to do with the project. They just saw a viral thing happening. They saw probably, presumably the Andreas an investment.

They started a lot of heat and they kind of like through a meme coin up to see if anything would happen. And now it's you sponsoring f one racer level of money. I'm i'm going they're getting worse. The amount of things you can do with this money is getting over each time. But like that fast name to me too, is that they had nothing to do with the project.

This an evil twin.

he will turn to say, was even me I going to see?

I just going to check out to see how much IT has changed in the time that we've been rambling about IT since .

we started talking about.

It's gone up into the three million dollars, seven hundred and three million. I'm sure, sure you get f one team sponsorship inside of that budget. No problem.

I think you could probably pull that off. I was being a little bit, I was being silly when I said space program level of money. But my god, that is an unfathomable bound of wealth wrapped up in a meme created by a, is based on a old different and religion, and is weird and religion. But do they have faith? It's very markey.

They have one hundred and seventy eight thousand followers on twitter and like I will say that like i'm seeing who I follow follows them and it's only one person but it's like a very well respected business person. So it's very fascinating that I have all of the people I followed, not that i'm active about social media, but that the person that that is following that is also now lives in a world of high business. So any fascinated .

to see what he does next?

Where should we go? Should we go? Internet archive? Feel like that's a big story.

I could talk about the internet archive to c on the internet.

Sometimes i've been known to look up things on the way back machine. Sometimes there's when I first heard that I was getting hacked, I just assumed he was somebody looking to clean up after themselves. The in today's world, having a heart cave of all of the terrible shit that you set on the internet for the last, you know, twenty thirty years can be quite destructive for people. Doesn't even matter in what industry or job you're in. So I just kind of assume that maybe somebody wanted to clean up after themselves.

That is interesting. Yeah, the number of times i've seen a journalist on the internet just reveal some extremely shady shit by just doing a basic internet archive check. Um I can see to be a pretty long list of people that would love this service to not be online. Kind of disappointingly that doesn't seem like why this happened maybe I disappointing ly uninsulated vely. That's not maybe why this happened.

But for anyone that doesn't know um just before we get out in front of our skies on this one ah the internet archive founded one thousand nine hundred ninety six by brutal kale it's a nonprofit organza in Operates archive at work which gives you access to the way back machine. It's just this giant free collection of digitize media and old websites, software, music. It's a big library on the internet.

It's committed to open the open research, open internet policies and the universe lexus, to all knowledge. It's a very useful thing. If you've ever push around on the internet for any amount of time, you probably bumped into IT. It's that, in my mind, that sits in that same spaces of wikipedia where I don't understand the economics of IT, but I am happy that exists.

See as wikipedia, I we have a little side bar on wikipedia because I remember I loved wikipedia when I came out, use all the time, read like knowledge, and they put up this big banner that was like, if we can raise x million dollars, wikipedia will be sustainable forever. Donate today we're trying get to this goal. We'll never have to ask you for money again and I was like, you know what here's like one hundred and fifty box or whatever they wanted yeah and now every time I go to the page, you get asked for my money and I was like going to remember the promise and me fifteen years ago where you're like, we're going to set up that's funny income trust and we're going to like be able to sustain the site off of returns and all the stuff. And now it's like, every time I go to the site, I get a huge over later like, yeah, you should donate money and I was like, I did the time you said that you never need ask for money again if I gave me money and I gave me money and now you're still asking me me for money. And I met you and i'm letting people on my podcast here about my anger towards you for no other reason.

like the idea that they didn't figure out till the second year. This was gonna a recurring thing and they pissed off a lot of people in the first year because now I have a sense that every year, wikipedia does a fundraising like N P R or something like it's just a part of how wikipedia Operates. But that first year, they thought they were never gonna to do IT again. So you get one hundred fifty box .

and pissing off, which makes sense that like IT doesn't probably require that much cost since form of data storage these days, like IT does a lot. But like if he raised enough money is set IT up in a in a way that is generated income like IT makes sense. Like this is how lots of trust work.

People give massive amounts of money in their parish, are where states planning and have I gotten IT goes into a big trust that earns revenue on the money base. And then that money base pays for the Operating expenses like kids. It's what I hoped I was contributing to, and I was lied to.

And now you all get to listen to me angry about IT. But the way back from seme agree with you. I use IT mostly when I having some form of sentimental moment and want to look up information on something that no longer exists.

Whether it's like the first websites that I built when I was like ten or the web community that I built when I was like seventeen, it's like I always easy to like, go look into things. But the thing I will say is that IT used to index forums and forum posts. So there's probably a lot of things that people discussed in the nineties and early two thousands in forms that still accessible, and probably people don't want accessible. See.

the thing I find IT useful for has a lot to do with the show, is very frequently will find ourselves going to the site of some kinder, dodgy, sketchy company that at some point was saying something. And IT was part of some larger scheme at a certain point to take down that one page. That is the sort of like third leg of the stool that was our grip.

And the site goes down, you can find IT anymore, but you end up finding some link to a link to a link in a sub edit that points to this dead old page, where if you could just see what I said there, the whole thing, the whole weird have and mystery would make sense. So I find myself going over to the way back machine. I'm over archive ed at work.

It's extremely useful from that perspective. It's just like it's which is i'm just describing like a library basic it's I guess you want that permanent repository of information. We live in an age where the publisher of a book can ripped the a certain page out of every copy of a book that exists in the world, essentially to test this metaphor.

And this is one library where they can't. It's like we have the original copy of everything extremely useful. On october ninth, twenty twenty four h visitors, the website would get up like a pop up message, saying that the website had been breached, containing a tainting message that's just sted like this has always been sort of like potential to happen, like there is been a catastrophic security event waiting to happen to the archive.

And IT stated, quote, who have you over felt like the internet archive runs on sticks and is constantly on the verge of suffering. catastrophe. Hic security breach IT just happened. See thirty one million of you on, have I been pot?

The thing I will say to this is like if you've ever been archive got to work. I the internet archive? Yes, IT doesn't strike you as a web page that was routinely seriously maintained.

Like I pressure. IT is run by like a library is not. I thought I think it's funded. I funded by by essentially foundations and support library information resources. But I think IT is a standard on site. But IT IT actually looks Better now than the last time went to IT like IT always kind of look like a website that was stuck in the early nineties and famous and now it's currently in like the late nineties, but it's still like youtube one point of kind of and so yeah doesn't not overly surprising to me that there was probably some cross site script in a rescue injection attack that made its way through in this thing. Yeah.

IT was down for a couple of weeks. Briscoe, the personal runs landon profit confirmed that he had been taken down by a does attack over on how we've been piled. They confirmed that they got a giant datta file of leak email address, the screen names, passwords, uh timestamps, a bunch of other internal data for the thirty one million unique email addresses which they received nine days before the this sort of whole thing became public, or confirming the timeline suggested by the hackers, hunt verify the authenticity ity of the files that basically people are about.

The forensically confirmed that these files Spark seemingly legitimate a disclosure process started in folding kind of through october in the rest of the month during which the internet archive is mostly down. This was not a sort of one and done type thing. The archive was down for several weeks.

I remember this happening. The thing, I think there was more than one attack, right? Like there was the compromise, then there was the d dos. And then I think they had something happened on the development side like, and they are get, get up, get lad stuff. So I think they were all independent potentially yeah.

that seems like the D, S. And initial compromise were different. There's a group called S N black meta that is claiming responsibility, for very least the d dos. It's not totally cleared to me. They're also responsible for the dad league compound that starts to get kind .

of the murky to me from reading through the S M black is apparently a propane stanger, which I find interesting that they would go after the internet archive strictly because I was A U. S. creation.

Like, I feel like if you are, if you're a part of that conflict and you want to make a difference, I feel like the internet archive is maybe not the best place to be dedicating your resources. But who am I to judge? I'm not a part of any conflicts .

and it's IT is this is where we start to get into like the mercy ess of an unfolding situation. It's like the verb ge in the original hack suggested that IT was just like we noticed that the door was open so we raided the place. And then there's competing story of may be all OK what he has to do with the genesis of the internet archive.

It's like, I don't really know why someone would do this. And to me, IT does feel like that where it's okay, the internet archive is built out of sticks and leaves. I totally accept that promise. IT was very insecure, but he does.

To go back to that, strike me as you're walking down the road and you find a door and locked, whether or not you should go inside and rifle through their shit really depends on what is on the other side of that door. Um soup kitchen maybe not maybe leave that one alone. Maybe it's just providing some utility. Maybe it's it's the one to not futs with so much weird investment bank go ham like there's things that I like. I have more and less problems with you noticing an open door .

and stepping through you see i'm glad you made the the the link to a sup kitchen there because to me that's the thing is like, people love the archive. It's this weird.

I ve soft.

It's the old site that like, we all have this fondness for like sentimental like or remember that like geocities and you like go look out of again if thirty five years you're like this. wow. Like I can believe this is still in the internet and IT is really like like IT might have the biggest.

Why does security vulnerabilities ever? But like, don't fuck and touch IT. It's like it's due like purpose. People like IT, even bad people like IT Jordan's evil twin loves IT and it's like, leave me alone. Yeah go pick a fight with somebody the like you de shouldn't like like, leave the arc alone. I don't care where it's founded and what you know I don't know anyway, by the time anyone's .

listening to this. So this episode will be dropping probably a bit week after we record IT because you and our both traveling round for different stuff. By the time I was listening to this, as of the time of recording, the internet archive was back up online. It's mostly working as a couple little bits of functionality that aren't quite plugged back in yet by all accounts of they've built a back up.

I hope they've built IT more secure because I think that the thing about this, these, once the story starts getting told of this group of people, take IT down, took IT down and then they built a back up and they made IT more secure, and then this person decided to take IT down. It's kind of, it's like, I don't want you to become a domino's falling situation like someone took IT down, they built to back up Better. Big flash moment. Ever move on, ever leave the internet or ari alone and there some about IT i'm not aware of just is a nice place with all website.

Exactly, exactly. And in this is some darkness lurking in the backyard room with the ark.

Yeah honestly, this is where we get like the hot line email being like you have no idea what is going on.

There be the only. If you have more information, please call hotline hotta com story. What we'd love to know about IT the I do want .

to just use .

this to transition to something else that that happened recently, apple's bug bounty platform came out.

I heard about this. There are all the new apple intelligence stuff.

I don't know the exact dates when they launch this program, but I think it's been like in the last couple of weeks like this october, late, late october and and kudos to them like there's they're go in head first into IT. Like if you can get past the lock screen on an iphone, i'll give you up to million dollars.

I'm just going to rattle through this because you share the link with me and it's as is tradition with apple, IT is the most slightly presented a bug bounty website i've ever seen uh, if you can get into a device with physical access to the device, IT ranges between five k and two hundred and fifty thousand dollars if you can get access to a device through a user installed APP h is between five k one hundred and fifty thousand.

A network attacked with the user doing something five, eight to two fifty, and then a network attack without the user doing anything. If you discover one and to not to put to find a point on IT, it's got to be specifically a zero click coronal code execution with persistence and coronal pack bypass. You'll find out what pack me means in the second that the upper ceiling on that is a million box. You find that in a computer they will sell you on a million back.

Well, even like further work, like when you're if you're in an iphone, if you put IT in lockdown mode and say you ve lost IT, if you can get access to that device once it's in lockdown wode two million dollars, like two million I love seen in this like apples taken this seriously. They've embraced IT. They're their own microsite for that they have ways to submit research urge for our reports like that is awesome, good for them.

Super happy about IT. yeah. And like maybe if the archive had had one of these programs, it's joky. The archive doesn't have IT of money for one of these going to say.

yeah, there are three hundred and two million dollar bounties. Two million dollars. Think about how much go C S maximum s you could buy with that.

All of. A lot.

quite a few, like one, actually. No, it's not. You could buy one one. You could buy one name coin that by the end of this episode will have doubled in Robin. I can say that one.

three hundred and fifty years of all of the coast exists, oh my god, anyway, anyway, but I just is a good yeah just.

I like that one. Well, why don't we? I think we're about halfway through one of these bad boys. I feel like a john to in a wasis wear. Sponsors and products and brands energy live. So why don't we yeah go on over to the the advertising oasis and women come back we'll talk about mcDonald ice cream machines and other hacky ducky .

stories here on hacked. A jan, yes, god, why do you love shop phy? I love notion. Why do you love shop phy?

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hacked A R C T I C dot com board flash.

Check 插 watching me your .

chAmber be the .

reverse。 It's a long out of plate river, one of the ones .

beautiful level plates.

I know we we should have a give your head segment and really test the bounders of what, because no one should listen to us talking about like our favorite vst. Um but I would and I .

would enjoy IT patron episode paton pay .

on great idea.

Think we're starting with kero mustard. Thank you kino mustard. We appreciate IT and we appreciate you. And I was never you not with the candlestick, not the library, but thank you for, thank you for supporting to show.

Thank you. I was like, why do I know that what is coronal mustard from his? A murder is what he is.

Thank you. Current md, clue. It's a clear reference. Andrew Johnson, and thank you so much for your support.

That means the world to us. Mark, just mark, thanks much.

You need dm. Thank you so much for your support. Really appreciate you. Same with the .

jillian Julian. Appreciate you. Appreciate support and appreciate all the patrons for supporting us.

And last but not least and I think I said appreciate too much um I honor you, Henry learn and .

pretty sure that's an iron ric. And rick .

and I honor you iron ric. Thank you so much. 啊 maybe I maybe this .

henrica during his name in unintentionally and I .

apologize IT was an a we， by being .

design motive name.

if you want to support the show, kick on on over to hacked podcast or comment, has that there's a link that redirected a patron IT really means a lot, helps us make the show, if you like, hearing us talk about things like ice cream machines. So this next story, I wanted dig in into a real quake because a couple different people sent me this link.

And I was so happy to get this link because, as I said earlier, IT means that when people think about mcDonald's y ice cream machines, they think about me, and that's funny. So a few years ago, we covered the story. I was a right to repair story that concerned to the mcDonald ice cream machine, which is manufactured by a large company called tailor Taylor, or makes all of the mcDonald ice cream machines for a bunch of very complicated reasons there.

Any mcDonald just matter where you probably almost certainly using a Taylor ice cream machine. Um and illegal disputed emerged when a company called kitch about K Y T C H developed a work around mcDonald's south serve machines. Famously, there's not a great content on this phenomenon. Uh, don't work great. All of the time there was a heat map that someone published on the of wear mcDonald cream machines were down because in a in a fast food restaurant where a hurricane could be hitting while you're in IT and they wouldn't stopped fry and fries if you looked at the ice cream machine. Funny, I would stop working.

So the mick broken dot com is the yes is the service that Jordan is leading to. And they're currently fifteen percent of all mcDonald's ice cream machines are down ah if you live in new york city, your extra punish by thirty two percent of them were down santa ono, twenty point five one percent anyway, you have the ability to literally look up any mcDonald's location and see if their machine is down or not.

Yes, part of the reason they're down isn't always like brass tax, physical hard where there's ice cream cup in the wrong chAmber types. Stuff has to do with the computers that run the machines, which is why we were talking about a part of IT are these error codes, uh IT all starts to get very, marky. But something goes wrong with machine. You don't know what that is. You're getting an err code. You can check with the err code means, and you can't do anything to address the err code unless someone comes and connects this Taylor designated diagnostics tool, which means that all of these mcDonald are in a consistent of waiting for tailor to send a repairs person that had access to this diagnostic tools so they could go, and suddenly your ice cream machine works again because that wasn't anything physically wrong with that.

But that service call cost .

a bunch of money to tailor in mcDonalds, have this long standing relationship that goes back at cost being offload to the franchise. It's a whole story if you're interested in. I think we dropped ted that like Christmas two years ago, maybe go find that it's the mcDonald ice cream share willington IT in the notes kitch comes along and they develop a aftermarket add on to these machines that allows you to circumvent that entire process. You already own the tailor machine, but if you attached the little thing to IT, unless you not, in some cases, not have to call the tailor repair a person and just solve the problem yourself, IT lets you IT gives you the right to repair the thing you already own.

which is important. I will say I just want to job in and say i've just looking at kitch stock com for the first time since we did that story.

yes.

And IT looks like they've made some big improvements to this thing like IT now has like predictive maintain scheduling using A I you have a full insight into your device and like the timeline it's been on and like what it's doing, like IT looks like a site like for something that's not supposed to exist. Their making improvements to the making IT Better.

The the two companies kitchen mcDonald's telling mcDonald certain, saying you can't use these kitchen devices, kitchen mcDonalds end up in illegal back and forth. IT becomes this sort of microcosm of the larger rate to repair situation, the united states, the faster story. And that's why we talked about and the reason we're talking about IT right now is that the U.

S. Copyright office is granted an exception allowing repair of retail level food preparation machines, including mcDonald soft serve ice cream machines. Essentially, the right to repair folks on this one seemingly have one.

notably mcDonald's franchise sees, who were losing massive amounts of overheads and expenditure to just having somebody come in and hit the reset button on these things are, you know, attaching some small, logical now they can manager, maintain their own costs lines, which is huge for them. huge.

And I was just like a nice kind show me up moment for so I fix IT, who is big on the right to repair side of things. There is a consumer advice he group called public knowledge. There's big into this.

So many people know about the mcDonald's ice cream machines story that a bunch of these different advocacy groups that care about this issue, able to use this set of lawsuits between kitchen mcDonald as a sort of like rally and cry to be able to start petitioning that let's just start with some exemptions for this that like you do have a right to repair some of these things you should be allowed to fix. This equipment is the uva purchased. IT doesn't help consumers that these products are available.

And if anything drives up costs, jep have to be constantly paying for arbitrarily servicing of a machine that is otherwise totally functional. IT was just like a very easy win for the right to repair community to be a point to this minute. This is just very, very clearly of an icky kind of corporate capture that just isn't serving anybody. And as such, they they did a pretty good job rolling around IT and seemingly have have for the time being .

one yeah I think this conversation, obviously, like the regio repairs stuff, been long, long in discussion and long in conversation. And I think this is going to be this is just the first president now now that you start getting exemption, president, that you're going to see more and more than i'm trying to think of the top, my mind, other things that I can think of you have the right to repair but I can yeah like the let's say that the industry has responded to this movement greatly like I can take my phone, I can take my laptops and I ve always made my own PC computers like you know this there's trying to think what else there is in that ballpark.

I actually have a good one for this because there is a story about a year ago ah that I we never talked about on the show that was itself a call back to an even older episode we didn't episode about called tracor hack yeah yeah I had to do with this exact same kind of thing right to where we've had a good right to repair story in a while but said to do with john deer tractors and about a year ago um tracor maker john deer was agreed to give U.

S. Customers the right to fix their own equipment prior to which point farmers were only allowed to use authorize parts and service facilities designated by john deer, other than like cheaper, independent local repair options. Now obviously, this isn't the kind of thing where these companies have having vast in immediate moral awakening.

There's still a bunch of things that large companies can do to say, yes, you can technically we believe in right to repair, you should be able to repair this and now you can just, uh, orde, this hundred thousand dollar parts that we will shift to you temporarily to allow you to do IT in the proper. It's like it's not haven't changed their mind. They've just decided they don't want to eat anymore. However, IT is a good thing when these companies acknowledge that, like you are on the wrong side of battle, when you insist that if a person wants to change a dongo on their tractor, they gotta spend seven thousand dollars shipping IT off to .

some repair place. Well, could you like, just like, could you imagine the world we lived in if, like, say, just automotives at this, like automobile iles, like if you bought a car or truck and you had no right to repair, actually, they kind of do IT through warrantees, which I get, I get on both sides of IT.

Because if you take your vehicle for repair and non warranty alert, all at other warranty, there could be knocked on impacts of that, that they can then warranty the work, others and the guy from a business persons. Cof, I understand that, but just imagine you never had the right to repair that. You bought a handbag. You're now locked into the honey mainland steel. And it's like, I guess that's kind of where where .

it's gone on.

Well, kind, I was going to say I was going to make a link to the subscription world that we live in now where it's like, sure, you're seeing now a lot of companies structuring around. You know, instead of just a large capital asset that we need to sell x million of a year, how do we lock x million or why million people into a subscribe model? And whether it's Better for you or worse for you, there's a whole discussion about that economically.

And philosopher like go on a video games. Video games is going through. This would be soften, eating their words on you'll never own a video game against a quit pretending like you're going to like there that was the exact quote, but essentially was something like that.

But yeah, I don't know. It's it's like just the transition societies going through where it's like these right to repair main its cost, things like that in a subscription world versus in A U on the asset that have to pay for IT. Because the reality is that like the manufacturer often need residual revenues and residual incomes to stay in business like software, software made such perfect sense to become a subscription model, because IT has a cost of madness in the cost of Operation. And if I just charge you seventy nine dollars to buy IT, think of the adobe creative cloud, the classic example of a subscription software that we own many licenses to and despise .

with a fiery fashion.

with a fire passion. But it's like we used to pay thirteen hundred dollars for a creative sweet you'd buy in a box. I come a cds you install and you owned.

You want IT, but then theyd make in a relevant years, you would have to go out and spend in the thirteen hundred dollars if you want to the latest version. And it's like you you were in this like upgrade cycle strictly from like a professional perspective. And now we just pay them whatever seventy four, ninety nine a month and and we never have to worry about IT again.

Technically where it's probably the same Price, the software probably updated Better and more often. And adobe is worth way more because they have this insane residual cash machine that, that their client tel basis become. So it's I see from both sides.

I hate IT from both sides. I also love IT from both sides. I'm not i'm not your condemned and yeah .

yeah you ask your evil AI twin what they think of IT. Um there's like there's different shades of this behavior. There's taking a product used to buy for a fixed Price and selling IT off a monthly fee.

There is creating a new product that always was a subscription, like you bought spotify for five hundred dollars, just had IT forever, always backrib tion. And then there's this sort of like dark corner, which is taking a basic functionality of the device and cling IT back inside of a subscription. And we don't think of the right to repair a thing as a basic functionality of the device.

But IT is so of the way that you find to monetize something in the long term. Isn't pushing call software updates to the tractor that allow IT to do, I don't know, farming tractor stuff on its own or to be somehow Better to sell an improvement. But to say i'm going to take to the basic functionality of the service is that you have to fix that sometimes and i'm going to hide that behind what is basically a subscription in the fact that you have to come a pay wall.

It's like to me that's the we can talk about the first two and I can even not have a problem with the second one. But that third one where you're just like making a thing worse to juice me for more money over a longer period of time to like make sure that your stock Price is extra stable as well. Not a fan of that one. Don't love IT. I think that and where are you're seeing IT.

But I think the next ten years are going to be really interesting as we see the subscription model s is because from a cash flow business perspective, such an optimized model for predictive revenues for predicting expenses and liabilities like IT just makes so much sense, brings tons of shareholder value. But IT also can bring value to people who are on the purchasing.

And because it's consistent delivery like this, there are pros and cons from both sides. Yeah and it's like you're going to see this creep until like cars I got you bought a new bmw. It's like do one massaging in the seats. The motors are in the seats to give you the massage. But if you want to unlock at at thirty nine, nine a month and it's like you're starting to see .

like the but it's like as we start to .

see manufacturer of high capital assets trying to figure out how to work in subway pan models, it's like we talked about with like like woop or like sleep eight. These are like higher capital expenditure products that then have a high subscription cost. And it's like i'm not getting anything for that substitution cost besides base Operation of the thing that I spent a ballot of money on.

So it's like I would love IT if if I could buy a sleep bate when he was getting a ton of free public area. And you're welcome except for the fact that I despite your subscription model, I would love to own one because my wife and I have very different sleepers and temperature. Except for that, I would maybe even started to to justify the massive capital expenditure to put IT on our king bed.

Except for the fact that it's then like locking me like a six seven hundred year residual subscription. And why am I paying that? I've just give me four thousand hours for this thing that's gonna break at some point, like at some mechanical system.

So it's like, are you going to give me a new one of these when this one breaks? Like me fun paying this this this subscription does IT come with an infinite warranty because maybe at that point i'd consider IT. But like, I don't know, I know. So it's going to be up. We're transition for us all.

Yeah and he is not inevitable. This to me strikes me as like, fine, the the stock Price really loves that when you have that long term committed cash flow coming in. But if the market says i'm simply not willing to purchase a fitness ring that costs for ninety, eighty months to let me use a APP that could basically be a website or a web cam, there's a webcam that inlay ably has a monthly subscription. All these products that i've gotten right up to the edgy of purchasing. But then as a matter of principal, and like no, you don't get six ninety nine a month for me to use this thing either Price IT in or .

or give me the thing .

or give me to me me the thing in Priced in or don't but this weird middle and we are just like, hey, by the way, your web camp costs two ninety nine more a month. You just get one of those emails that just sort of politely informs you that the thing you use everyday costs more every single month like, no, i'm going to vote with my dollars on this one. IT is not inevitable. We don't all have to go with this. Like just don't buy those products.

I try not do, but it's like this ones that like I can think of that we've been paying for forever. Like play station network. It's like it's like you I got a PS three when they launched and IT was like I made A P sn account and you started to be like i've been A P sn subscriber for so long.

I'm not anti subscription. I'm not like I would never give money monthly for a thing as i'm watching netflix. Like it's like no, there's no I was like not show me physical shit and then claw back basic functionality and behind the subscription because it's good for like a CEO. It's like that just stupid. Well here i'm .

about to say IT, but like a multiplayer gaming, he is behind that pay well subscription in a lot of these services. X box, I think intendo. You not let a multiplayer unless you pay for their connection. Play station is gone that way. So something that I would have considered an .

essential functionality got Normalized.

I Normalized being something that I now have .

to pay for. I'm a hypocritic AI Jordan .

who is speaking right now. But but yes, I like I guess like rent is a form of subscription. Living costs like nobody really can discuss, like it's becoming a big reach for most people to just walk out and buy a home. And if they can buy a home, they're essentially getting a subscription prepayment from the bank. So it's like IT .

sort of is I I would almost test that a little bit and say that in this metaphor, condo fees are what we're talking about because rent is i'm paying you for this thing for a period of time, which is different than I bought a thing, but I have to keep piling a little bit of money. And it's sort of unclear whether or not it's actually paying for something even that is getting piled up to pay for repairs is the closest thing to the metaphor here.

But here's the thing is like you say, you own a home. Evil joran, evil Jordan crypto scheme has gone very well. He's gone to but .

a cash home wow, he's doing good, isn't he's really thriving.

You know how a subscription for taxes, property of taxes, you have a subscription for education funding that even if you have children or not, you're paying a subscription into the economy to develop the next generation. You have a subscription for energy and heating so that your house doesn't freeze up in the winter or burn down. You pay you say you pay all of these subscriptions on top of that, you have to pay maintenance when IT comes up.

Condo fees are literally just the amalgamate tion of a few of those things in turing payments. You know often utility builds things like that. All this get role in the economic es. So they're just Operating expenses. But I but I do hear you but .

in imagine if we could take all of that great sense of collectively tight to the collective good and making my community Better and apply IT to fitness band company. It's like my feeling changes a little bit. Tractors, ice cream machines, what if everything works that way? It's like I like how that works for those things.

And i'm almost at the point now where it's like if I wanted subscription that I give me the thing yeah, it's like I can go I can walk into a cell company store tomorrow or today and be like I want a phone, I have no money and they'll bake the cost of the phone on some kind of return plan right into my plan like i'm essentially renting the phone and for the period of my plan like yeah but not even you don't never really own IT because you to return at some point releasing IT to use IT. And it's like i'm honestly more at peace with those forms deals because it's like at least it's your product and i'm getting IT for essentially no money at front where in something like a playstation network of sleep fitness bandara, i'm shelling out a boatload of capital expendable to buy something that I then had to pay you six, ninety nine, plus, plus, plus a month for just to use. And and that irritate me.

I agree. I agree. big.

So we have digressed greatly for writing. Reminder.

ice, scream, go buy some. Do we have anything else we want to talk up? But this was all an ad for mcDonald, the new mick flurry.

We do have the a quick thing. We need to do a quick here on the thing because we have mentioned in the tro fellow canadian Alexander muka, assuming i'm messing that name up, as I do with all names of cana, twenty six years old, has been arrested. He stole a bunch of data from a large data warehousing service called snowflake.

Notably deals mostly with large businesses with lots of people that do like complex A, I and L M. storage. So that like a lot of more interesting knowledge than like what's probably unlike drop box or boxer google, things like this is all massive corporate data associated probably with massive corporate databases and probably worth therefore a larger value. He saw a bunch of IT held a hostage, demanded ransome got arrested and is likely going to do a long boat in jail.

Yeah no online and i'm just going to rip through this uh, as Judith, which I don't know that reference, and wife food, which I do know, that reference was arrested by canadian authorities but like a weaken change ago under an arrest warrant issued request of the united states, appeared on court yesterday at time of recordings and is part of an ongoing extradition proceeding where is going to be sent down the states in to do with his role in all of these hacks we're talking about here? Started like April twenty twenty four. Ah he goes after snowflake, goes after A T N T, goes after live nation h owners of ticket master we've talked about on the show before talked .

about the data compromise and wonder if it's not this data compromise. Pretty sure connected dots media whose .

on by google was hired by snowflake to investigate and reported in june these compromise log in details h, which obtained through an info steal malware, were used to gain authorize access. And they worked their way back to Alexander corner. Look up A K, H dish.

A K. 外服， 外服 外服 yeah apparently if you refuse to pay IT， he broke her IT for sale. He is partnering with a kiper phantom, somebody probably on the dark web who was then selling IT, which is where i'm assuming all the tailor swift tickets might have come from.

So I was recently I was recently booking um some travel. This is a totally aside as part of like a work project and we were looking at dates and we couldn't figure out why there was like a day two random days in the middle, the booking where the Prices of everything quintupled like no word of a lie like hotel Prices went from like in two hundred box in that neighbor is like a thousand dollars and we realized we are in tailor swift is in her screwing up our travel plans era um and that there was a concert in the city that we were going to on that one particularly date and the economic impacts of IT were truly devastating um we look literally change the dates as resolved to IT.

I'm sure that's not why Alexander lua went on this hacking tyring to try to produce our ah our travel costs. No, what I want them to and I have no beef for tailor swift anyway. Uh, canada extraditing this fellow down to the states for his role in these different hacks.

IT was a real spring. He didn't. He didn't shy away from the limit. Ine was this was a lot of hacks in a very compressed sed period of time.

Hey, in all honestly, like we could know if we need to have a conversation, but like I feel like that's probably not a bad option. Like rather than I feel like you as you commit cybercrime, you converge to arrest. And the longer that you were in.

yes.

you were in market, has a cyber criminal, you're converging faster and fast to arrest. And I feel like if I were to be looking to get in, hit a couple of dangers and get out of the ballpark before anybody knew, i'd probably be doing the same thing so strategically. Cotton, get dinner out, you know, hay style totally.

IT seemed that honestly like IT was kind of going okay until until snowfall hired mandean like IT seemed like IT was kind of working. But it's like we it's like we discuss with batista the most recent episode went live if you do this for long and you put IT very well, you converge towards arrest. It's not inevitable and there are certain context in which you might not necessarily happen based on where you live. Yeah but all things being equal, you are just new sort of converge towards get got well.

the thing is too like we met a lot of the money and guys that defcon and they all seemed very capable. Yeah.

that's true.

I've forgot about that. Yeah and yeah the not people if you're any kind of recreational hacker that found a security vulnerability, they're probably you probably unprepared or ill prepared for the sophistication of the people on the other side of the table.

So yeah, it's a fascinating one. I. I'm curious to know more about the process of canada extra dating to the states for cybercrime. C, i'm just curious understanding mechanics of how that works, but just seems interesting.

I feel like it's the same way would work if you were like bank robber t they probably put you into a plane and fly .

you you there and they are rest you when you land, you think .

you're probably undersea red like convoy to get there. You get out of the plane and you go right in the back of a different armed police vehicle. Yeah, and they shuffle you off to a different prison.

Did I tell you? Will wrap up here. I'm not sure if I told this on the error.

I just told you off. fair. I'll tell you what the time that I landed on an airplane and that happened.

No.

not to me, obviously. Yeah, I am sure 是 research calling for a secure location。

Jordan, it's good. Joran.

or chaotically evil.

Jordan, totally.

We, I landed. I don't even remember what was, but I I remember the landing and the plane landed and taxi in and the gate connected. You could see IT through the window. And then we SAT there for like A A weirdly long period of time. So what came on over the inner come? So we just, I would just working through some stuff, just, just hold time, everybody, that the the sea bet side is still on.

Someone stood up to go the bathroom and they came on with a real sense of urgency, like the seat belt sign is still on, you need to sit down and everyone is kind of a weird vibe, start to emerging the plane, look up straight on the isle. And like four plain clothes dudes are just walking very seriously towards me or down the plane, and they walk up to a guy, and they have a very tiny, little less conversation. And then I see the the police badge on the medal chain inside the coat get popped up, and they just reform to stand up and the guy stands up, he has the hands of of his head.

And they just like get his begg out from from the overhead kain and quietly walk out. And there is long cragin pass. And the flight attend comes on the radio after a second and goes, okay, we've arrived and it's like shy and we are and everyone just like x sales, a couple people laugh and start looking at each other. Um yeah so that does happen um all the time and I never did figure out who that person was. I was never able to work out person arrested because I was if I remember write an international flight.

it's probably some it's probably I would say it's probably something insane, boring yeah like I was like they failed to show up for something and then there was always a sudden there was like an arrest, warn, put out for them or warm for the arrest ah and then they were like moved to russia for thirteen. They came home for IT .

was a flight from russia IT was .

a russia actually no but like you never came home for like a funeral or wedding yourself family and they hadn't thought about IT in a decade and then after either just like a right, you're still a wanted criminal because you failed to appear at some justice proceeding you so he had a look of.

he didn't look surprised that was the one other detail. Remember, I was IT wasn't like, what's going on? I know nothing about IT a giant bag with dollar signs on IT.

I'd never like I was none of that. I was very like, hey Ricky, hey Allen, hey dug, hey guys, are I come on. I had a real sense of familial to IT projecting, but I was what I saw.

And maybe that's happened here. I think that's another one. I think that's another one in the bucket. Uh, go sea of nosis mcDonald's ice scream machines, apple's very good bug. Beauty IT was a phone one .

snowflake in the canadian, the canadian hackers and the canadian hackers chaocheng ticket to in the must ban. Because canadians all, you know, neutral, good. If not.

yeah, we would never create meme coins. We would never create an A I specifically test with creating meme coins that we will lie about not having any holdings in. That's another one in the bucket. Thanks again for listings, everybody, and we'll catch you .

in the next one. Take body.

Marketing is hard, but i'll tell a little secret IT doesn't have to be. Let me point something out. You're listened to a podcast right now and it's great.

You love the host. You seek IT out and download IT. You listen to IT while driving, working out, cooking, even going to the battering. Podcasts are a pretty close companion. And this is a podcast aad.

Did I get your attention? You can reach great lessons like yourself with podcast advertising from lives in ads, choose from hundreds of top podcasts, offering host endorsements, or run a reproduced ad like this one across thousands of shows to reach your target audience in their favorite podcasts. With libin ads, go to libin ads dot com.

That's L I B S Y N as that come today. Marketing is hard, but i'll tell you a little secret IT doesn't have to be. Let me point something out.

You're listening to a podcast right now and it's great. You love the host. You seek IT out and download IT.

You list into a while driving, working out, cooking, even going to the bathroom. Podcasts are a pretty close companion. And this is a podcast aad.

Did I get your attention? You can reach great lessons like yourself with podcast advertising from lives in ads, choose from hundreds of top podcasts, offering host endorsements, or run na reproduced ad like this one across thousands of shows to reach your target audience in their favorite podcasts. With libin ads, go to libin ads dot com.

That's L I B S Y N as that come today. Marketing is hard, but i'll tell a little secret IT doesn't have to be. Let me point something out.

You're listening to a podcast right now and it's great. You love the host. You seek IT out and download IT.

You listen to a while driving, working out, cooking, even going to the bathroom. Podcasts are a pretty close companion. And this is a podcast adad.

Did I get your attention? You can reach great lessons like yourself with podcast advertising from lives in ads, choose from hundreds of top podcasts, offering host endorsements, or run na reproduced ad like this one across thousands of shows to reach your target audience in their favorite podcasts with lips in ads, go to libin ads dot com. That's L I B S Y N, and that come today.