Retired Sony Exec on How Cameras (and Photographers) Have Changed
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Hey, everybody will come back to the pet pixel podcast. We're gonna be dozen the great content tower here in just a few minutes. If you're listening to this. I I am the only person to dress up on the episode immediately before, like the day before halloween, the lack of commitment to the visual craft is trying.

You have a little something.

Yeah, it's on your future to wipe IT.

We're going to talk about that a little bit on the wood. Have you been up to? But I know if our viewers or anything like my children, they are terrified of what is taking place.

I have never wished for death more than right now at this point.

You know what, Jordan? What i'll do, I promise I will also do that .

if Chris does IT well.

but we're already recording.

Are we? Jo jorn, you could be my wingman anytime.

Do you want to ask you have any questions for us? Jordan, I do have one thing I want to touch on really quickly before you do.

Okay, go head journ.

So we launched it's been in the development phase for like six months, but we launched Peter pixel memberships this week, which allows you to browse pet pixel with no ads for three dollars a month or thirty dollars a year. In addition to that, we're going to be adding more perks to IT. And I kind of want you to be more like, yes, you do get to remove ads, but you also get to directly support what we do, including what Chris and Jordan do.

So this really helps us out, especially in this modern digital publishing age, which is getting more and more difficult. I encourage you guys to check that if you do want to support us, we'd appreciate that. If you read petofi XL at all and you don't mind the ads, don't worry about IT.

You can continue that experience. But this is just a way to extremest. We are going to we are going to be adding more perks, uh, as we already have at least one planned, our two actually, that will be rolling out in the coming weeks.

If you have things that you like us to add to that, that you think we could do that won't overwhelmingly burden these two gentlemen. I be happy to hear with those my beat with those in the comments below. We're looking for brainstorming more ideas to to add more value to this. We won't be increasing the Price. We just want to put more stuff in there yeah.

if you understandably don't won our lightness sis on things that you wear. I mean, we appreciate those of you who do, but if you're like this, gotta a be some other way. I can show these guys the love then, yes, this is an outstanding opportunity for you to do that.

Think of IT like patron, except on a platform that we manage so that we don't have to pay patron for anything.

But as usual, our podcast, we are joined by Jordan guse a drake and were joined by Jerry the ice mange. And i'm going to be a matric.

I'll be Chris mi nics that was in the naming ability scoping, I think. And you immediately also joined .

by this little teddy bear penny today because just you guys know that the basement still getting work, the basement saga continues. You might hear hammering, you might hear drilling. I'm sorry about that. And so i've got penny here with me because .

he likes to pending is dog for anyone just .

listening doing if you're not watching on youtube, I mean, we appreciate you, but you're missing out on a mustache .

and a dog up that everything Harry is awesome this week. So guys, I was like to kick things off with a question um because IT is we're gonna talk to mark weird, formerly of SONY, someone who's been a great friend and someone we always look forward to seeing who has recently retired. I'm in kind of a SONY state of mind.

So I want to know what was the photo camera where you were first like omen? I got to a start taking SONY seriously because I know there was a big dividing line for me. I'm serious what that was for each of you. For me.

I see IT was pretty early on, you know, because we were big proponents of mirrors. st. We a lot of our first videos we reviewed SONY. Any x ray was a really big player.

And so I think for me, actually the big one was still in the APP c days with like I X six and I X seven, where I was like a these these are cool cameras. They are compact. The lens is or smaller SHE start to really see the potential and the image quality is the same. Obviously, they had left a lot to be desired as far as v fs and performance and handling. But you could see into the future, this is going to .

be big for me. For me. I think IT was a night the original yeah, I was doing yeah, I like, i'm a canon guy. Been a canon guy for a long time, and I was still, I think at this time, still using AA11DX for like my main camera。

I love hearing this while you're wearing a icon museum t shirt, but.

Look, people can change a anyway, I I remember shooting with the N I quite a bit and really, really liking IT thinking of myself. Man, this this feels, this feels like that that future is like here. So I was pretty pleased. Um yeah, I shot jets with IT. I shot a baseball game with .

IT that's something i'm not not yeah I .

was at the myanmar air show instagram tells me three hundred and thirty to no weeks ago yeah and I shot the blue Angels and I was like, this is I was just getting some crazy good shots that I ve never gotten before. And I remember that being a huge deal.

You George, for me I yeah for me I was I was waiting for IT because mr. List was coming out now like ah this could like maybe replaced at the sr and opens up some options. But IT was the original a 7s which at the time we didn't know IT。 But this was introducing dual gain sensors and to have something that we could adapt anything to like big cinema lens as and have insane low light performance.

I talked about IT last week. There was a short film I made with live ahle welcome meta oia, which we shot primarily on like a big I. There was an F, S, seven cinema camera, but we wound up using that a 7s for a huge number of the shots， because IT took place at night.

And we could just light things less. We could stop down lens ses and just crank the I S O really hard. IT opened up real creative possibilities. And that's exactly what I want to see, what new camera technology is like. But something I couldn't do before wasn't .

IT picking up like a rora like northern lights yeah if you .

never watch that film yeah ye'll just see you like, run into the distance .

and the north n lights in the background yeah .

the video trank to twelve thousand eight hundred shooting a movie which you would illinoy and the shot soft, but we never could have captured that otherwise. So that was the moment where I was just like, yeah, the technology is really interacting with creatively what I want to do, and things are great. So i'm looking forward to that conversation with mark going down of a memory hole.

Memory hole that means you forget something. We're going down memory line, the place we're going to my brain a little. So I don't know. Let's start the show.

Yes, let's to start with A A pilot reference. Let's put that ball to the wall. Let's go.

Today we're going to talk about three incredible lenses from om system that are perfect for travel photography, the EMS wio digital E D twelve to forty f 28 pro and the twelve to one hundred four I S pro。 And I like the fourteen to one fifty f four to five, six, two, whether you're a citizen pro or just starting out, own system has something for everyone and every budget.

The twelve of the forty millimeter f two minute proves a favorite among travel hotoke phs for several reasons. It's very little focus range covers everything from White, single landscapes to type portraits, making IT perfect for capturing a variety of uses. The twelve to one hundred millimeter F I S plus is an absolute aby powerhouse, powerhouse with the extended zoom capabilities. IT covers everything from beautiful landscapes to close up wild live shots. This length also features built an image stabilization, which is a game chain of .

when shooting handheld.

ensuring all your shots are sharp and clear. The fourteen one fifty f four to five six two is incredibly light waiting, compact, making IT the first ultimate travel companion. What's great about this lenses as versatility is perfect for capturing everything from landscapes to portraits without the hassle of changing lenses.

but changing the game yeah yeah exactly .

whether you you're looking for sharpness and look like capability of the twelve to forty millimetre, the versatility of the twelve to one hundred or the compact convenience of the fourteen e to one fifty OEM system has the best traveller ces or every adventure.

For more information and to learn more about local promotions, visit your local authorized retailer or explore that om is not come slash Peter pixel today, thanks to our system for response ing the Peter pixel podcast. The first thing on our event, IT, was a surprisingly busy week. Maybe it's because we recorded the last podcast so early. So it's really .

like a week of this so we can to have a news here. H.

I hope you all enjoyed us crammed into that to tell me room, by the way, speaking of that, and when I went back and I added, that is like, I have basically no memory of this podcast. I was still delivery ous from travel. And I was I remember looking over at Chris like I was editing IT, and Chris, like, slumped in a corner of that room.

Yes, I I had glazed eyes, much like g lock. Know how many trees can you pull germ before you pass .

out and start to? I can handle a solid jeans. I just, I do bounce against the cockpit in case of an emergency ejection because that I have no tolerance for .

what's right right?

Ah legitimate actual question. Have you actually sustained jees of any kind that you you're aware of?

No, I mean like I was learning to fly assess now with my when I was quite Young, but that's just like taking off and landing very slowly. I've never actually been in like a jet jet like you have Jerry. So I can I can't say i'm sure I have a very low staminate for IT because flying that session on my time, you got a little bit troubled .

from time to time. Now is the.

now is the top gun pilot. okay.

My commitment to the costume is maybe not as high as IT has been .

for other people. OK, I, I.

Chris.

have you sustained? Es, I have not sustain. Gees, no, I have not turbulence in a commercial plane.

I was in a high air balloon once. That was really nice. Lots of have small helicopters and small planes. I too um I like to write the violent roller coast nowadays as i've got older. Would you do in pen pen?

She's hit the microphones. What she's doing good. I can tell you, yeah, that sustaining jesus not fun.

And I would do, Jerry, if I was going to, if I was going to have the pilot experience, but I didn't want a violent, or maybe I would still make me, I would try out something like the apple vision pro. I think that would be pretty cold. I know, have any experience of that.

Yeah, that didn't give .

you jeans what it's so immersive you can put its a rain into feeling you should on your body.

It's a same way into first story in you back on topic, I don't want to get back on topic. So the first story that I wanted to bring up is that if you are listening to the podcast, any pointing audio, you may have noticed that a episode dropped uh, at the end of last week, surprisingly and without notice, IT was a bonus episode, tough an hour long.

And I SAT down with two people from apple to talk about what they, as a apple, as a company, think the future of photography is and why they're so invested company wide in the vision pro. So if you'd like to listen to that, and also i've got ten in a written article for, if you don't want to listen, you want to want to read, uh, there's a link in the description below. And then you can go find that podcast on any of our of your favorite podcasting apps, including apple podcast, spotify, youtube. It's not on youtube or youtube music.

but it's not all the totally new music that that'll .

break your brain. I very good pod test. Thank you. You did a really nice interview. And and I guess my question is, I know the apple know, listen to the two apple exec.

They are really big on sort of vision pro beings, creative method of consuming content in the future and photography. Do you think like it's a future of photography? I think still images.

if you can get the vision technology into more people's hands, I do think there is something unique and special about what they've done with spac photos. IT was an actual like IT made me feel something. I can't say that about a lot of technology, and i'll be honest, a lot of what the vision pro does.

There's just not a lot of use cases for IT yet um but looking at pictures that are facial in the vision pro and they are also doing panoramas. Those aren't spatial but just like putting a panama up ah in the vision pro, where is actually correct the lines so that you can look around and IT looks like you're there that is sick. Um the new technology that they have, which turns any picture spain is also surprisingly excEllent.

IT makes you feel like you're sitting there again by IT literally feels real. It's super weird. I think it's very neat.

I don't want to say that I have a necessarily an opinion on this. The future of photography. They feel like IT is. So I kind of lean on just living them talk about that. But I will say that there is something there.

Yeah, do you think like people are going na take pictures that like a birthday party of their kids blown up birthday candles and stuff in action.

you can already do IT with no downside sides. Like you can do IT with all of the other Normal photo captures stuff, and you wouldn't notice IT just having spared on is is like they do they lean on this is like, just do IT so you don't regret IT later. I mean, their tech was very good at turning a non spatial photo spatial anyway, if you do not remember to IT or choose not.

No, I like again, I got I have to get one on my head to really understand. I think that is a real key point. And I could see taking like an art photo, you know, whatever, be like a professional portrait or landscape or something like that, and then consuming IT with the vision pro in that regard.

Do I see like saying, oh, hey, passes around all the family members, the table. So you look at the birthday party we had, you know, the cocoa is, I don't know if I would do that. I would know I don't know.

I think, yes, you can share the vision product, a share mode.

But right.

like I know when I mention in the beginning is like a really only will matter once more people have the ability to do this on yeah and maybe .

will the entire world just walk around with vision prose on no.

because by the way, that is that's never gonna en the when they saw that the vision for launch and people were like walking around, those guys are stupid. IT was never designed for that. It's not supposed to be used like that. It's dumb unless you're fighter product .

of they can wear elements.

Okay, sure. Are we going to keep going back to Jordan wearing a .

top gun outfit? yes. Oh, and he brought this on himself. Yes.

absolutely willing. So I .

starting this week a google photos, the APP will start showing when a photo has been edited with google AI. It's not c to P A. It's not cii stuff the content off than this initiative.

But the meta data will now be put more visibly in front on single photos. So a little weird, took so long to get to this point. But here we are finally there are finally supporting, oh, by the way, that photo of that camp fire on the beach is not real, basically.

right? But this is still, make no mistake, in the meta data, right? It's not going to be like a water Marks.

I could be visual and get, do you think we need that? Like, would that be more helpful? I know. Yes, you can.

You can easily raise them in all that kind of stuff, but would IT be helpful to have a visual waterMarks. You can quickly identify that, like our people really going to always go into the meda data. Or is the owners on the person to actually want to research? Is this faker not?

Are you asking our opinions on this?

Yes, yes, yes. And the viewers know her boddy's.

I feel like the two solutions we've got her both sort of incomplete. The watermark is not going to fix that. Obviously the samsung funny because like if you remember, you could use samsung AI to remove the watermark of samsung AI, which hilarious.

I think meta data is a good way to go. I mean, that's what cei is already doing. This is metadata.

Um I think that actually seeing the fall idea of how the content authenticity and that is supposed to work would like the full provenance of an image visible across platforms. That's really the only way it's going to be complete right now. This all just feels like pretty peace.

Me yeah IT feels very much like they're just slapping a banded on after especially I know like the verge when after them pretty hard with the launch of the pixel for like look, I can make IT look like there's a car on fire in this with basically no consequence .

is very easy but drugs on the floor.

the shot that was yeah one of the big ones as well yeah very easy to do so yeah IT feels like kind of abandoned solution as opposed to know the cai, which is a little bit more well thought out. But again, we just need major publications, major websites to start embracing that. So people get used to seeing that water market and understanding how works that they can click see the processes of an image.

right? Um john, i'm really sorry about this. I know that .

you .

are looking out time on a time on executive has basically said they're not going to revisit vast primes, the ninety millimeter two point IT mro that you guys are using right now testing that was kind of an outlier. The quote as we are focused on our strength with zoos.

sad makes yeah I am sure.

But you know .

maybe it's from the self standpoint is consumer, but it's disappointing. And I liked they make some really nice primes. It's a beautiful one point eight primes and and I I think they're still a market for compact primes.

You know like I don't feel like the original manufacturers make that many good compact little primes. There could be more. So seems strange to me.

Yeah, I know they're feeling the heat from a lot of the chinese manufacturers who are now making auto focus crimes and are certainly developing lessons right now. But they did like we were talking recently about like eighty fives and fast fifties and how none of them tend to have good macro o capabilities anymore. And that was an area where the Camerons excelled and they're still a gap there.

So I don't know, maybe we need to do an episode looking back at some of Cameron's most beautiful primes because I know forty five one eight, eighty five one eight, the thirty five one four, that one are lens of the year. Yeah, in the D. S, R amount.

They, I allows that.

Yeah, that was easy. You were just like, I can even shoot this void link. But this thing is undeniable. Day he was a grant.

Yeah, they've said the quote here is that, Cameron, the strategy is to differentiate. We offer zoos that do not exist elsewhere. That is our core business. These lengths are sharpened in a homogenous way at all focal length and have very good auto focus.

IT would obviously be interesting to announce Lances like a twenty four one four or thirty five one four or and even and eighty five one two, these are lines that make you dream. But today, from a commercial point of view, there are already a large number of players who offer this type of optics, and we are rather trying to play the agility card. So we are focused on our strengths with our homes. I get from perspective yeah .

but I get a yeah .

a lamos phy speak .

yeah speaking of lines .

is yeah how about a more .

glass yeah well, luis, new lemon instant wide glass is, quote, the best instant camera on earth according to the I can't verify that perhaps you guys can when you evaluate IT within within weeks.

we're going to give you a try. I mean this this makes sense because food you film, we're talking the instant wide format, the larger instant format. There is nice potential because of the larger size of the print that you get.

And one of the downsides with fuji films inside hamer's those plastic lens is they tend to be the same, especially with the latest camera and see any improvement there. Um and yeah, the aesthetic is soft and kind of blurry. And there's I think there's room for a little bit of improvement.

And and this isn't the first class lens. I mean, the most done this before. Other companies done this before. And IT does help. IT does give you sharp results.

What i'm most excited for is not only do we have a glass lines, but also won with fifty two more filter thread mount. You know that opens up a lot of fun stuff. They've got cool like lend splatters and multiple exposure splitters. They've got the obviously ability just to put fifty tumor filters on is really calls. I'm excited about that.

You all can look forward. And by you all, I mean, like anyone listening, look forward to their review of that, which is on the board for the coming weeks. So we'll see how that actually performs.

I'm curious. I'm sure you you're going to compare IT to the the other wide that you recently. yes. So I mean.

already we can tell you if you watch or listen to our show, the limo is a product that is more designed for you.

Yeah, for creative photographers. I want a kind of experiment and have some manual exposure rings.

Yet this past week marked the seventh, seventh eth anniversary of the like m. And they are, and like that is celebrating in a very like away with a is something for everyone.

right? jaron. And no, bringing them to the people. This is something .

for a select two hundred and fifty people in the world. Yeah.

only two hundred and fifty years we produce is called the like emidio. Seventy and IT cost twenty three thousand dollars.

Yeah.

by joan.

gorgeous.

This is not an anniversary party, I will be partaking.

Gorgeous camera. This is an analog camera. It's a mechanical camera, largely like an m three, but with some ma kind of a design cues.

So this is its gorgeous. It's analogue. It's beautiful. Plata plated. I mean, i'd like the sort of understated esthetic of the coLoring.

I mean, not no doubt it's a gorgeous classic camera which makes a lot of sense like a is famous for making these limited editions and Frankly, they do really well with them. So why not keep going, right? But yes, it's very exclusive. It's ridiculous ly expensive but it's an interesting piece of history considering how long they're been in the base.

You book your head, your dog kids in your bike. It's cute. Uh, alright, Jordan, I think this one's one that you have some opinions on.

Uh, we had some antic total evidence that sort of back to this up, but now there's some real evidence that points to IT DJ. I is selling a whole hello lot of osmotic pocket, therese. So many, in fact, that IT owns twenty four point three percent of the japanese video camera market. That's insane. Have one double .

that in even the slides because we were just in tokyo and I this news hadn't come out. This wasn't a story that was been worked on at Peter pixel. But everywhere I looked and like, dam, and do we completely miss the ball, not reviewing the pocket three, because these things are everywhere, like every tourist just pointing amount of window of cars, you couldn't avoid the pocket trees.

They were just ubiquitous over there. And then all the sudden we get these findings that, yeah, they have, basically, they're owning the action camera market. I mean, certainly like go pro is still a player in there instead three sixty. But D G, I has just taken off in such a huge way. And I don't think this is coming from like everyone buying a bunch of one and four days in the last at a while, this market chair is coming from pocket cameras taking .

off Jordan in in your professional opinion, what has Better geoscope c stabilization and guide the osm o pocket three or the american amram radar guided medium range missile?

Well, the emr on does definitely have longer range. I would say that the pocket is very limited by its standard wide angle, but quite a well corrected perspective. So I think you know the pocket makes more sense for more people. But if you're looking for the best of the best, then clearly, america's military excEllence can't be over complimented.

Very nice when you need to splash bogues at distance.

I mean, the presence of a bogie is really key in terms of what is the correction.

I resent that earlier. You're like let's get us back on topic only to now derail us again.

So it's a legitimate question effect vely.

By the way, before we want to the next topic, um I mentioned that is twenty four twenty three percent of the sales in japan. Um the next highest percentage goes to the go pro hero twelve black and it's at nine percent. So like it's a dominant dominance election, we're talking .

cannon in the early two thousands level dominance here. It's in saying .

how popular is in every event we go to. Like I see IT when we went to apple apple park this year, I thought in multiple times walk, as you mentioned, walking on tokyo, see IT constantly um so yeah they must have sold so many of these things. And if so, it's not just japan.

We've we've seen IT elsewhere yeah alright. Last thing. H and y announced the new arrival ring mark two, which combines A C, P, L and A V, N, D.

Jordan had one hand to him in japan by me, because I got one, and I wanted him to tell me what he thought of IT. So this is your time, Jordan, to say what you like, don't like and what not about the agent. why? River ring mark two.

yeah. I think these are really they do tend to be geared at people shooting video. A lot of the variable ends because typically when you're using filters for photography, you things like portrait with strokes and landscape, it's a little bit more deliberate where the appeal of a variable, and as you can vary quickly, shifted exposure, drop the light down usually to maintain a slow shutter speed as you get nice natural looking motion with IT.

And i've used the previous reviewing, we actually had a review up for that, but that wasn't a blend of a polar zer and a variable N D yeah big issue that you'll run into is a variable N D IT is do a polar ized. So a lot of the time you'll get the exposure that you want, but you're also not getting, say, the saturation in the sky that you want. The reflections are getting skilled.

So now you have the polar ized element as well to offset that. So in principle, it's really good. The issue that I found, and i'm sure this is what uh H M Y came up with, is is very easy to accidentally shift the wrong ring.

When you have an adapter ring that you can open and close to click on on different focal length, you've got a variable N D exposure ring that you need to control, and you've got a polar ized or ring that you can control. So their solution is little pins, so you can lock all of those. And IT worked very well for maintaining, which is why I think this will will be great for photographers.

If you are a photographer who likes to use variable N D filters, this makes a ton of sense for you in those situations as shooting video on the streets where were moving in and out of shade very quickly. And I was really trying to capture more of like a run and gun field in this. And you can certainly see IT by the time this comes out in the icon video where we did a tour of the factory.

We're just constantly moving in and out of different exposure. And i'm just reefing on that ring to quickly catch up. And there I found, oh, I accidentally locked the the ring, or I should have locked the ring.

And now I accidentally bumped at shifted exposure. I just found IT a little bit fitly for run and gun work. So if you're doing or deliberate control time lapses, this would be fantastic for, but for a run and gun variable and rag IT wasn't my first choice.

I I would like to try IT for, you know, by the river kind of video, obviously, Apollo zed, very handy in your sheer and water, but it's amazing how well that rivaling grip holds. I mean, you look at in your life, there is no way this is going to hold. This can be it's but it's actually quite secure but it's very large um you could easily catch IT on stuff.

And I will also say as a presenter, I couldn't see the tally lamp, which was really annoying. So because he does have that kind of large profile in the front of the camera. So yeah ah it's interesting but not perfect.

So i'll linked to IT in the description below if you wanted take a look at IT, but that's that's the thoughts from the team there. I shouldn't let you hold onto a Chris, just I have IT here. Join, give you back me at the end of day.

Yeah, it's fine. You know it's our waters could be frozen here pretty anyway. So.

uh, okay, so let's move on to the main story this week where we're talking with mark weird, a retired SONY executive, on his thoughts on cameras and how cameras and photographers have changed over the last twenty years. But before we get to that with the main story sponsor from one of Jordan's favorite products, i'm going to let .

him take IT away. So the main story sponsor of this episode is clean my mac. Now this is software that i've been using previously, and like, clean my mac X A.

Previous version of IT um and I just find that incredibly useful because i'm i'm bad for like moving files and i'm like, uh, i'll just quickly slapped on my internal drive and do what I forget to all remember, delete that later and I almost never do so I up with just a hitlist desk top and a downloads folder with that's like six years long, completely disorganized. So I rely on clean my mac to just give me a little tap on the shoulder and be like, look, then this thing is a mess. Unfortunately, we have software here that can help your disorganized self.

So i've been using this for quite a while. And recently, they have updated IT to a brand new version with a much cleaner, more intuitive interface. It's actually a real pleasure to quickly work through.

You doesn't feel like you're doing homework. You can just at a gLance which you might want to to catch up on. It's going to do things like control malware on your computer as well.

And I just find that a very straight forward, affordable, easy to use a tool that i've been using for a while. And the new version is a big step forward. So fortunately, you can try IT out.

You can see just how disgusting the internals of your beautiful mac might actually be by downloading a free trial of clean my mac. So definitely check the link in the description below or in the episode description if you're just listening to the audio version of this. But I love this software.

I was thrilled when they reached out by kid. You guys are clean. My mac is interested in sponsoring ing. And it's like, absolutely, because this is something I used well before they reached out to us here at the show. So definitely check this out.

All right now we're going to jump on an interview I think all of us have been waiting to do for, yeah, I like six months or so basically when our good friend mark, weird for our executive at SONY, retired and we've been dealing with Marks as our very first press trip was the eight, seven, nine, two launch. And I remember we were seated with mark. And my initial thing is like old.

We worked to the camera store, it's like, man, at dinner with people who work for camera companies. This could be rough, and we had a great time. And we've always really looked forward to seeing mark any opportunity we have.

And now that he is retired, it's like, are we gonna like super canada? Mark, let's pick his brain a little bit. And this is a huge opportunity because you have been in this industry for a very long time.

So i'm looking forward to IT. We've got some questions, and I know you've got some strong opinions about the way things were and the way that they're going. So yeah, thank you so much for joining us on the showers. K.

all thanks for your invitation.

Ah before you get into your questions, joran, one thing I want to say is that was not my first in person meeting with mark. I believe my first in person meeting with mark was here in port land for the eight, seven or three.

two, the B.

R, two. Because that was before us.

Yeah, we went and we were at the school. We went to, like the roof of a school here. important. That was like, no longer and news. And then we had like dinner up there. And then we went back to the bus and someone showed up with yellow shots that so seared into my mind. Yes.

what a great business .

we work with.

Mark market showered us with very nice craft beers as well over the years. It's been tactic.

It's very good to see you in mark. We ve missed.

It's lets to get into IT.

yeah. I mean, like like just .

going back to kind of a historical thing. You have been with SONY as they basically moved from you primarily like the cyber shot series cameras up to being one of the big professional brands that a lot of people use. So what was that shift like? And I know there were various steps in IT or only made big jumps. What was that experience like for you.

mark? Um IT was the realization of a long aspiration I think that all camera manufacturer um relish the a the beneath IT and the uh pride in creating products that are professionals use as well as uh um uh enthusiasts and because professional users bringing a to the chAllenge of making excEllent products, uh the the reliance that they have on such products. So IT was the realization of a long dream been with SONY for I had been with SONY for thirty eight years when I retired in the imaging business or about twenty five years.

So have SONY a whole Jerry yes.

But in twenty .

five years .

in imaging .

side of SONY, uh IT was always A A N aspiration um to create the products that are professionals and enough sts really loved and chose for their work because one of the great parts of imaging is it's it's a creative pursuit and there is a very high satisfaction that comes from creating products that the people who are a artists.

essentially you one of the things that we talked about before we brought you on, mark, was that a strong memory for all three of us was that basically every major SONY event, there would be an executive or an an engineer or group of engineers from japan who would show up, and then they would talk to all of us at length. And they asked us specific questions about specific features.

They asked us if anything bothered us about anything in the only camera. And of course, there's always gonna something. And for the longest time, for example, that was menus. We all three of us would complain about the menu system in some any.

So with that in mind, how much of what like north american media was saying to these technical people was actually being used by Sunny japan? Like how often would they hear us and be and go back japan and be like, this is what they said. This is what needs to change over. They just, you know, curious. And they were going to continue doing what they were doing regardless of what we said.

Well, it's kind of a two party answer. The essence of uh, product planning, which I think in which all manufacturer and engage is to listen to the end users and much has been written about honey's dedication to listening to its end users and incorporating IT into a future development. And I believe that that's true for most any successful manufacturer.

Uh I mean, it's it's pretty easy to see uh the chAllenge for any product cleaner is the need time and the difference in expectation of implementation。 Uh, most and users will speak about the way they use the product and their desires for how that product works in a much, much shorter turn than a manufacturer can realize. They're thinking about how they're using the product today or how they how their camera performed for them last week and their wishes. And what they'd like to see is generally in in a lead time of measured, perhaps in monks, you know, at your next product, uh, we'd like to see this, the chAllenges, the alignment between the the actual lead time for development. And they presumed a lead time for development because in many cases, I can speak for all manufacturer, but a certainly the products that their planning are the lead time to their realization as measured in years, not months, you know, bringing the product to market with a new idea or some change uh in the course of a year is a chAllenge for any manufacturer and that difference in the time is is often um yeah the measure of in many and users minds of how well there being listen to think are .

really a clear example of that is the pandemic. We're suddenly like USB streaming became incredibly important to everybody's why my camera are do an easy USB streaming now I have no life and IT was like what made twenty twenty two early twenty thirteen where we started to see like pretty seamless functionality role that so it's a very clear example where it's like this is a priority, but those development cycles are so much longer than a lot of people might do soon.

Yeah, yeah, that's an excEllent example. I mean, if you if you consider the the companies that we're making a uh uh HDMI converter devices to support streaming were able to react very quickly on to delete for those products. And they became very, very popular almost in overnight. But at the same time, uh camera manufacturer as a whole uh took um a couple years um before they could incorporate them that that capability into their models. Part of bit was due to the model life cycle, but part of IT was due to the fact that, that streaming capability needed to be worked into the overall user experience of a much more complicated product.

So jumping outside of SONY for a little bit because you have seen so many developments. And just as part of your role, you're looking at what other manufacturer are doing? Like how have you seen camera design shift over your entire career?

great.

Many huge years yeah two minutes talks going.

I probably the most prominent example of the entire shift in the industry is the change from cameras being mechanical devices uh to cameras being, uh, electronic devices. And I think that most everyone has noticed that over time. But over a long time frame, the the the impact of that becomes more and more clear. Specifically, if you know those of us who were around in the industry to watch the shift from file to digital.

Um can really see that because in the old days, as I like to call them, uh camera manufacturer were pretty much um involved in the mechanical sex uh the mechanical in the optical aspects of of the camera, the the image quality aspects of the of the camera ended up being largely in in uh in that the role of the manufacturer. The film that all changed, as we all know, to digital, where the key devices in the camera really determine what the camera can offer the photographer in terms of functionality and capability, right things like speed and image quality and um uh connectivity and the ability to capture the moment. All of this was really now focused in the camera design and IT was largely gated by the semiconductors that were in the camera.

And that was in my mind, that was probably the most substantial shift that I observed in my years. And the great, I wouldn't call IT irony but the great um um one of the most interesting parts of that further development has been the return to the popularity of film and film camera. Yeah and it's almost like a cycle where um um but but there are other cycles a of that sort in in in the imaging industry. I mean just take a look at the rise of the use of the smart t fum yeah as the camera um and .

then ironically .

enough to shift for um certainly some users from the smart phone back to the camera.

Yeah so to follow up that question mark, I know in our industry mirrors cameras were one of the bigger shifts, right? I mean especially from the dsl and the sla, which we are the stalwarts of the professional community. Um we were big proponents to that early on. You know that I mean talk to about lot and shown I got really yeah you know where like yeah the first video was any x product and so actually but ah well okay the first .

field test we did like that actually .

was like three yes was .

actually like one .

other videos was in any not argued so yeah Jordan. And so the .

company hold up right now.

crest our jez, so so tended okay. So what i'm wondering about is SONY seemed to be a company that jumped on that bandwagon pretty quick. And you know you guys had D L, our business, but certainly the big players or icon and can. And so when did so one kind of make that decision? And do remember like what that decision making process was like to really start to commit to mirrors cameras, not just as like a consumer or consumer thing, but actually a professional product.

Well, I can come in not on the engineering side, not on the development side, but but more on on how would accepted the end user. And I think in the early days of a muralist, two thousand eight to two thousand and ten, IT became clear to many that the shift from mechanically Operated cameras to electronically Operated cameras or mechanisms to say solid state for instance, was going to happen and if you you'd have to really go back into the archives to um see how different manufacturers um behave.

But I think IT became clear pretty quickly that there was not only a change coming, but a uh uh A A difference in the way images would be captured. And let's face, IT IT was affecting photography and and still cameras. IT was something that had already been developed in the .

world of video.

And if IT could be developed in video, IT was a question of, well, how quickly and uh can IT be adapted to still photography and how will that happen? And from this long term, IT was really a question of, okay, the devices to make this possible um to make a sl camera that Operated in the way a video camera was and how could that be um adapted to the standards and the performance level of the way? Still cameras were and there were signpost along the way.

If you think about IT mirrors, cameras were readily available in the context of fixed lens s cameras, right? And neighbor miracles, right? And and IT IT IT was really IT to see the future in those days was more of, uh, IT became essential to really focus on how a camera Operated.

What I was doing when I was taking a picture. And from that perspective, that was pretty clear that this was going to happen as soon as the devices became available that meet IT possible. And once of those devices became once those devices became part available, IT was just really more a question of one, is he going to get out more than a else.

not gets well. And you guys, I remember very distinctly had the r one, which was a fixed land's aps c camera. And we looked at that like a few years ago, we did a retrospective on IT, and we were really surprised how much IT felt like a mirror camera. You could see kind of the steps to making that more usable already taking place at that point where the sensors you know weren't up to snuff .

for like professional use yeah if you think about where were the turning points um even though most wouldn't see IT in those terms. One of the big turning points was the shift from uh A C C D image sensors, large C C D image sensors to large uh sea sensors and because large sema sensors once they were developed, um had the seed, had the um uh uh energy low energy consumption um and in their early days, perhaps not so much, but soon IT developed the necessary image quality with which muras cameras could be realized on a on a major scale. So this is really a shift in the the image sensor capability.

And if we were to trace the development of miracles, be beyond its initial stages into the stages that it's in today, it's really the the further and further development of those image sensors in terms of their read out speed, their image quality, their dynamic range, their lower and lower power consumption. And and and after that, you know, of the gene was out of the bottle. And where we are today is largely based on on on the development of those censors.

I mean.

the idea of having black out free preview from the same image sensor that was capturing the frame, the ability to shoot at thirty frames per second or one hundred and twenty frames per second with excEllent image quality. I mean, once those capabilities were realized in the devices and development, all two.

I have .

a new good no.

you go for.

I was just to ask on that same topic. You know, like I remember, of course, a six thousand being huge and like reviewing the first full frame SONY areas. But on on that seems to have topic about products. Was there's something that surprised you you know something that was like a real hit that you didn't necessary think would be or something that really flopped .

in your surprise that I did um in some cases, yes. Um not at all. You probably the the osha moments uh in in my experience of a lot of them were actually in in the very early stages of visual camera development back in the late many I mean much has been written about those days but know the development of the magica for instance, um in and the focus on uh how and the users uh we're actually using digital cameras in the chAllenges that they face and innovative ways to really meet the demands that were required to really drive the shift from film to digital.

And this is I think is true for uh for several manufacturer, I mean uh manufacturer in in the late nineties were grappling with how to realize uh, digital cameras with the devices that were available at the time. And you see a whole variety of different kinds of cameras being made in all states. But amErica was something that was very, very different from from other from what other manufacturer were doing. And IT really highlighted the notion that if the focus is on the way the user actually Operates the camera and and and overcoming the the pain coins and the difficulties that they have, that's where adoption really takes place.

And I think that that I mean that's a that's a that's a good example of what surprise not only me but also uh the entire industry as a whole, I think mavick to the industry by by by surprise other than that um I think that as a long term observer of how um how the trains developed IT was um you know the rapid acceleration of the uh acceptance of mirror sts that took place. I'd save from twenty sixteen onward and really really started to shift into high gear and twenty twenty and twenty nine when miral less cameras really came of age and I were able to provide performance that mechanical camera or the um mechanically based cameras simply could not content with. And we started to see that from a variety of manufacturer once at once, everybody got on board and a development from different manufacturers took slavery different um directions.

But um the shift really accelerated, uh I think in those days and IT wasn't just in terms of the cameras IT was also in terms of the menses. Um there was um what what you had really recognized um really on was that man's design had the um keep up with camera design because as cameras accelerated in their performance, um the ways of making lens is not only from an optical standpoint but from a mechanical standard point had to go hand in hand if the cameras capability was to be realized and I think that that was a surprise and so many people in let's face that there are pretty much every major manufacturers of not just cameras but also lenses, has realize that a new kind of lands a needed to be created to take advantage of the performance of mirrors cameras. And we've seen a shift in the industry um of lens design in the manufacturer that probably hasn't happened since the shift from manual focus to auto focus lenders has taken place with the shift from a lens is designed for us, a lars, and lens is designed for mirrors, cameras. And it's affected pretty much all of the players in the in the lenders .

business on that topic, mark, like you were there when they brought out the emo t and then later, we're like, this is going to be an open mount. We're really gone to encourage third party developing. Did that surprise you?

Yeah yes I know um the announcement itself. Uh I was there in the room at the photo kena twenty ten where a new announcement was made and um I IT was different. Um let's face IT the support from uh third party lens manufacturer for individual camera manufacturer melts. IT is something that goes back for decades and decades. So IT wasn't that unusual um but the the idea that um so uh that that you know lens manufacturer would be encouraged to take the step uh into making lends its for uh mirrors cameras uh I thought was a great .

idea yeah IT was not an unusual thing to see a third party lines, obviously. But there has been manufacturers who have been quick to remind me that IT was never officially sanctioned in many cases that had just happened. So like that's their excuse, for example, for keeping amount closed. I'm sure that you can infer whom i'm speaking up and i'll leave IT there. But the fact that SONY was like, no, we're taking a different stance was, I would say, pretty radical and still was promoted IT as a feature yeah like today, still relatively radical looking at this and it's been .

one hour context of recognizing ing that lenders needed to be different, needed to be designed differently um uh to take advantage of the coming change in the cameras and and I thought I thought I was a great idea, but again, that's one of the changes in the lens business, but there are other changes as well. Look at the advances that have taken place in optics.

Um you know uh when so many announced you master in twenty sixteen, I think that most photographers, particularly photographer s that demanded a lot from their lenses, recognize that there were lenses that could be sharp and then there were lens ses that offered beautiful artistic rendering and there still are. But IT was really quite novel to say that, hey, why can't we do both in the same ones? And I think that the the the further development .

in lens .

as and the the number of manufacturer that are not only really pushing the limits of lens design and the number of manufacturers are now making lenses is a just is a reflection of the dynamicism that exists in that part of business.

嗯。

Was there hundred third party lens where you were just like, hot? Damn, they really came up with something clever there. Do we need eight that are like, I wish we'd pitched this idea first. Anything like that?

There are a lot of very talented designers in this industry.

Let's face IT IT reflects the creative .

demands of the end users. That's one of the one of the greatest parts about the imaging is the end user community and their requirements because they are you know their artists and their needs are uh, changing all the time and that serves as an inspiration for designers of uh you know of all of the different companies that are involved in the industry. It's it's dynamic. It's uh IT serves a is not a passive use of imaging products. Its its creators that using these products.

right, that, that the constant demand .

for development that brings up .

a question mark because like you are in a very unique position, not just to have a say in product planning in what product should be designed, but really having that connection with other manufacturer and what they're doing, what's going on in the industry, but also as you talk about the end user. So I guess my question is like how has the camera user change, you know, your observations about whose buying these products, what their needs are? How is that changed over these decades that you've been with SONY?

Well I think that um towards that were coined many years ago, more than twenty years ago, that I think really reflect this is uh the idea of visual communication um visual communication in in the adoption or or or the um the the growing adoption uh a visual communication ation from you know people has has expanded so much because of a the a of a variety of factors. I mean there is the internet, there's um uh people's desire to communicate with each other, there's the advances in um uh imaging technology. Um there are so many factors that are affecting um how humans interact with uh each other visually and the ability to create visual uh communication is is is well it's it's never gonna.

But one thing for sure the number of people who are imaging active shall we say is uh becomes a larger and larger part of the population and is everyone on earth are if A A substantial portion of everyone on earth that is communicating visually gives rise uh to interest in uh the tools with which that's done and and I think that that um many different things in uh in the camera business but even more it's fuel the girl's of the smart phone business, its fuel the growth of a blogging and um the monitise ation of uh um content creation um for for so many different purposes and is that constant dynamic uh in what users demand um and users involvement in contact creation that you know has has an impact on on the imaging industry. But it's actually it's striking just how many people on earth uh uh communicate visually and take advantage of uh and enjoy uh creating content a to keep in touch with their friends and to um a to a no spread the word. So as people that's .

actually a good transition to this question is like I can want to know from you've been doing that, you were in the industry for so long, how has like the camera user changed from when you like first cut into cameras? Can you describe what that person looked like and then how they are when you retired, what that person looked like? likely? How did .

the camera for eleven .

to six foot like one's perspective? What is what their end user look like and how did that change over the course of two thousand and meters?

But I don't think in terms of SONY perspective, and I can speak for sone in my .

perspective.

yeah, I think it's a share perspective. I think it's something that's commonly held. And the let's face IT when in the early days of imaging, uh people were engaged with photography uh as family memory keepers to the large extent obviously there were a variety of different uh and user types are the professional photographers news hot graph ers they were sports photographers um they were portrait photographers, many different kinds.

But the idea of capturing memories was was A A common thread throughout the user community. Uh since then um I think there has been a substantial growth in uh uh for first of uh capturing uh images and video, uh for sharing and IT beyond just the family memory keeper or taking pictures of uh you know um members of immediate family ah and it's a IT hasn't shifted, but it's grown in the area of uh creating content. It's um it's it's not just capturing a moment or capturing an event which is what's face IT.

A lot of what people would do with photography back and uh well for for decades and decades they would capture you know thanksgiving, you would capture you know their children's activities for for memories fifty years later. But instead IT was a growth in the idea of um creating a an image, creating content for a variety of different purposes. And certainly people have bit in creating content for over hundred years.

Um look at the cinema industry so it's not new. But the ability of mainstream users to create spectacular content um started to take place as the enabling technologies were available. And now um people who are not you know never went to um never went to photography school, don't have a visual art degree, uh can create content that is a amazing and has incredible entertaining entertainment potential and and do .

IT professionally and .

not .

I mean you can turn into an occupation. I remember .

remember social media was inviting someone over to look at sixty slides of your vacation and was slide show who wants to go to see that and now we we forced our slide shows across the entire .

world force and well, you know yes, one of the terms that I heard used um by a good friend many years more than ten years ago um was uh the democracy zing of digital and and and and it's true that the technology itself and the accessibility of the technology itself has allowed a whole generation of users shift from uh just capturing memories to creating art and and that that the the impact of that on on on people that I think is profound and IT has opened up an entire industry. If you think about IT h or let's not cold in industry, let's call IT A A way of life and occupation where people's aspirations to not just communicate, but also to create, merge together and IT becomes something that's very, very attractive. And so silly .

the last few minutes here, Jordan, want you find the last few questions you think that are the best ones for mark to tackle?

So I I touched earlier on the r one because we're like me and I remember that camera. I want to play with IT again. I know we were on a press trip and you were just like, oh yeah, I got one of those kicking around and then the word got out like, mark god, everything. So it's just like if there's something you're curious about, IT might be there. So you have your personal collection like what is the weird a story like the most valuable thing for you there personally, that you would not like a like if tony shows up in there, like give us all our stuff backmarker one will you like .

hide in the attache so they can track IT IT well um just in case are under a misconception um uh. I do not have a um uh collection in the act because .

of your responsible what that does yeah .

you all have part retirement is is returning that which is not yours just so you're aware of that. But I would say that the ones that are most significant are the ones that have the greatest sentimental value. Um um my father was an avid photographer in an avid um movie shooter.

We didn't have video in those days and when he passed away I inherited um some of his cameras and once a awake a 3a and uh which um I I I like to shoot and the other is I bely enough it's because it's come this returning to popularity is um a crown graphic for by five u camp。 Oh nice and I mean let's face the digital has its has its charms um but the process of film photography in which I was raised um first was a portrait photographer for high school year books as as well as a sports photographer in high school. And and in that creative process is is is I think it's entertaining and I think people are returning to IT because it's chAllenging.

IT doesn't provide the instant gratification that digital does. And and and I I think that there are people who are very, very much attracted to the process is itself. And I feel that and and I enjoy IT myself and I have the retirement time time to pursue IT do you know waiting which I didn't before so .

even I don't years returning to analog.

that's fantastic. Well, I don't know how long it's been sent. You've chatted with Jerry, mark, but Jerry is like deep into this right now.

we were just trying, right?

Oh, man, looking forward to the result. So you're .

not alone there.

alright.

One last .

thing is we're working on slide film right now. I'm trying to discourage him from slide film is please do not get him started .

on for my .

friend a boy last thing and yeah last thing is like we got to know you in some very cool shooting experiences and amazing locations like what is the most incredibly shooting experience or trip that working for SONY for .

all that time gave you the opportunity to be part of um well I for me probably the the finest memories I have a uh well working with you, you are jorden .

right yes well .

now all of you take .

members .

members .

of the journalistic um and influencer communities. Uh i've always found exciting and and really entertaining because those trips were where we were introducing uh, new cracks, new technologies and uh looking forward to the seat back that we would yet.

Um and that was the most important part because let's face IT over the development of a product in a product life cycle, a lot of work and effort goes into not only developing IT but also communicating IT, particularly if it's something new and different um because when it's something that's really excitingly different, where we believe that um the end user will become very inspired red with what these products can do for them. That's A I mean, that's that's a very sufficing and I think I can speak her for all manufacturers. They look forward to the time at which uh a model can be released.

Its a very exciting fugue yeah and the excitement of releasing a product together with the instantaneous feedback that um is had when he gets put into your hands to use IT for the first time. Um that's that's that's the culture nation of of a lot of effort and time and it's uh for me I can say IT was a very exciting time. Um so if I was to think of an individual occasion, um IT would be the kinds of occasions in at which the greatest breakthrough um uh great to products were being introduced and know you know what those are just as well as I do uh but you know particularly a if you think about the development of miracles and the excited around products lake, uh the first camera with a stack sensor, the first camera with a global shuttle sensor.

Uh in the performance that they realized but more importantly, the opportunities that they offered for the end users and how um in the reaction of that in the excitement with that. I mean, that was that was that was probably the most exciting and the the types of opportunities where we were in the fee and we could really put these products to the test. Um we're also very, very exciting. I mean, your a number of number of places that we would go to and a number of exciting opportunities that we had um in the great commotion atterly as well. But the the the the ones that I i've found we're most exciting where the ones where the greatest game changer and capabilities were being introduced.

Yeah well, we always had a great time with you, mark, and we always appreciate your support and thanks. You're coming on the show to talk with us about your experience and .

with innovation. It's um um as well as there are less than less of them every day. But as as my favorite band, um always used to say that was a long, strange trip and he was miracle of filling and we appreciate your interests.

Yeah thanks so much for joining ing. smart.

Thanks, smart and great to see. Again.

big thanks to mark. We are for joining us and giving us his insight into the camera industry from that perspective. Ah what if you guys been up to I mean, I maybe we should address the fighter pilot in the room first to Jordan ah the .

goose drink yeah I didn't point out .

with the .

my interview I was wafting about like and I just going to interview someone that I like really respect an important figure wearing this costume and I was, I will be Frank, a coward so I did not for that particular one but i'm glad to be back with you gentlemen here just with this show of confidence and he didn't even ask about my mustache like I thought for sure you like what has happened like I thinking I think the world was like.

yeah. I kind like I did you shave the sides already or you grow IT back already.

So here's the thing. I took IT off as a very last minute, like my wife and I decided we were going as goose and maverick. Jerry, i'm in a send you a photo that you can slap on the screen here.

It's the door of the two of us going out. And just before we left, I was like, you know what score IT i'm going to commit and I ran downstairs and quickly shaved off size about, like just leaving the moustache here. And I looked in the mirror and I was like, this is my last moment as a married man.

When I go back upstairs, he was going to be liked up. That's IT. You push her hand of everything and choose, like, now that that actually IT works for you and mention that makes me look Younger, because all my gray is in the beard and the sides there.

So I guess I look like a youthful, hot, Young Jordan. Maybe I don't know. Anyways, we had a great time.

My high school gym teacher Jordan, or or my dad, like life insurance salesman Jordan.

or it's it's really easy for me to do a quick flip to do jernington ad yeah on halloween now just have a couple of t shirts and you even .

have like the same I think we have the same nose and the more than looking at IT because I have my dads know very similar uh, to my father is super yeah even smiled like that. I don't like IT. So are you .

going to keep IT? So here's the thing. At first of all, I want your objective opinions are out of ten.

Where would you rank this? Look, I wanna, but not objectively out of all humanity i'm saying like on the Jordan scale you like i'm only going to peak so high, right? So in terms of keep to lose IT zero out of ten, where would you rank this? Look.

Chris, like crying at you right now, Chris, what you going to give him?

Um I. Um like like a four like a four I was going to go as high .

six because IT doesn't look that wow don't look if you like mustache es, it's a good mustache.

Yeah you don't look like you know a bad person or a criminal or anything like that or it's some sort of dirty porno go for anything but you know like. Eighty villain, yes or so here's what i'm thinking and i've already .

put in the leg work on this, so i'll center on the link i'm going na set up by a movember website because if i'm gonna look like an idiot, I might as well do IT for good cause. So further month of november, I think I will be milan.

So that means in december you'll have to actually shave IT to restart, which i'm curious to see. I'd like to see baby face to Jordan.

and I think i'll just let this get super wholly and then start not having the edges and have like a really thin hair here with a huge bushy mustache. And that will be the you've got .

ta grow out more, grow IT out more. That might be what IT is. Maybe I need to see like prospector Jordan to really before I make my decision, but that I can do to A F yeah, alright, I will not join you in that because my wife will leave me SHE will .

be so my mind but yeah, but no, I take one for the team. If you needed needed help join but Chris has to join to IT. IT wouldn't .

be but not like i'm saying IT wouldn't be like h you look Younger and be like like it's over.

She's out. Yeah no, I like either of you.

So she's like, see you in a month. You know what I mean like, and to be honest, this month is important because what we ve been up to you is obviously the basement is almost done. It's very close to being done and we're actually going to have a japanese exchange students staying with us part time. So that's gona be my november and I definitely do not want to terrify him with a mustache. So you know, that'll be that's worth prepared for all my he'll be like.

all I need to go back to japan now.

Yes, you'll be like, amErica is a scary place. North th americans are crazy, and I never. eight? yeah. eighty. villa? Yeah, exactly. So, no. And then and then my middle son's gonna go to just north of the photo next year to be with his family. So we're exciting for that.

You built a fense too.

I built defense with my neighbor. Yeah, built defense .

with my neighbor .

yesterday. I was nice.

IT needs. It's almost done. It's almost done, but it's get there. Yes.

I got two things. One, i'm wearing one of the shirts from the night time using image is very comfortable. Uh, i'm very pleased with IT. Uh, I also am using a different lightning set up that I have in a previous weeks because I was ashamed by A A commenter that I didn't read live on the show, but I did that's .

what inspires all good decisions .

yeah shame for not knowing how to light was more of a matter of just using the stuff that I had. But sure, I didn't know how light, uh, in any way I loom cube, who I had not really thought about for a really long time, reach out and said, asked me, I would like to test any of their products. And I would like to point out that this is not a cube, but IT doesn't deed bloom IT is a used it's a little like reckonin gula 啊， 但是 a flat pan boom move .

yeah it's a loon .

tangle IT has like more on the built in。 It's got a battery built in. I I have the light stand version. You can get a decoration too, and that's controlled by the little remote for power and color and what not. I also have like the little desk clap. And Chris, if you've been enjoying the pictures i've been taking of my gun, pa builds lately, which, like, they're pretty well lit, that from the little, the little death clamp, which I actually really, really like, IT is a very nice desk lap.

Thanks for making gern happy loom cube.

So appreciate IT. So here here IT is I think these products are great. Ah the light on me looks nice. So i'm i'm pleased, uh, you're looking for something like that. Check out look, you that is not a sponsored segment. By the way, this is just a product first test and I wouldn't say anything if I didn't like IT then.

I just remember red joran. I just remembered I did rocka mash for remember we did our our woodnt kle of the nice guy.

So that's right. You had hustling stash and you remained in a committed relationship. So maybe your fears aren't actually so you're going to join me from november. Now you just set up on mike.

right? No, I didn't. I that .

looks good on you.

I don't talk about IT. I don't talk IT does not look good .

on me IT looks gross. Okay, well.

yeah, yeah and and I even did sam bora choi ter episodes with that mustache. It's a rough due. And audience.

one of yeah yeah IT was bad.

They are yeah, they probably thought I was was just ironic.

Well, let's get on to tech support. We've got a watch to get through. Let's start with a speak pipe from bernard. Hi, Chris Jordan, Jerry.

as a tinker who works on computer repairs and likes to take things apart. Um have you ever heard of or been involved in any communities or forms .

dedicated to modifying cameras either .

through software or hardware? If so, what are some modifications .

you've encounter?

Like have you seen .

modified firm where to increase .

frame .

rates or addition of cooling to overheating cameras, stuff like that? Love the podcast, by the way.

keep IT up.

Thanks, expert. I don't know from my perspective not much. I mean, modifying cameras physically, it's what i've seen as largely relegated to, of course, sensor coverings.

I do like some of the infrared photography that you can get out of IT. I've never tried that. Mostly they don't really have a camera set around that I would send in. But if I do ever get one that might be that might be unique because there's some cool stuff you can get yeah.

I haven't done much in terms of physical hardware. I know we were tempted with the or five one at first ship to look at some of the the uh, jury rigged overheating solutions available for that. So really IT comes down more to software.

And obviously the big too is I worked at the camera store win both magic land, yes, and the G, H, to driftwood hack came out. And in both cases, we were kind of a support system for those, even though I was completely unofficial. But the cannon hack and locked a bunch of professional video tools, much Better compression and even raw video recording.

And then with the g two, we saw a huge bump in data rate with that, that made IT essentially according onto a lot of professional cameras and a Better video camera than the af one hundred, which was their kind of like consumer cinema camera at that point. Uh, and both of those were actually surprisingly stable. So I think it's because there was a huge ground swell of support from the community.

So things got aren't out very quickly where now I feel like the main like the software that is included in the cameras is quite well developed. yeah. So anybody doing that kind of stuff is a much smaller, more niche audience. So we don't you know might be a little more stable are little less stable things like that. So I haven't dip my toe in IT for a while.

If you're interested in just like seeing what other people are doing, I know there's one company that does a lot of really interesting stuff with cameras, and that's color vision. They're they are like they do the sensor replacement, of course, but they also will do like other types of modifications to cameras of hardware, not just not software. So that's a need place to go look and see what they're doing. I don't know if theyve got a community in anything, but their blog is interesting.

Oh, i'm sure the next.

the next one is a an email from a maro, hi Peter pixel poppas a morrow, the bat biologist here with a few questions about video. I mainly shoot photos of wildlife, but i've recently got ten gotten into shooting short video clips as well, especially in slow motion. I'm still wrapping my head around how shutter speed works in video.

When i'm shooting one hundred and twenty fips, I set my shutter speed to one over two forty, or at least one over two thirty nine point nine on the X T. five. But a lot of slum o clips are played back at Normal speed, for most the videos, and then transition to slum o when the interesting action happens.

What do you do with your shutter speed in these cases? Do you just have to deal with a lot, deal with having a lot of your final video at the quote, wrong shot speed. How big of a deal is that? Having the wrong shutter speed, especially when videos are, say, being viewed on instagram or a phone screen.

Also any favourite fuji film, film sims or tweak to get pretty videos read out a camera. Finally, speaking of making videos that will mostly reviewed on social media, I also enjoy making time lapse is especially of the night sky. I tend to shoot raw photos, added them, exports dng or j pegs, and import those in the premiere pro or another editor is free.

And when in the, in the process, should I be downsizing my images from seventy seven hundred by five thousand pixel to four care or ten eighty p whatever does IT make a difference whether that happens on light room or premiere during video rendering? Thanks, joe, of what you're doing. Sorry for the long email on maro tackle that first one.

first. Okay, we ve got quite a mission here.

yes.

Alright, let's to fall, Jordan. yeah. So the shutter speed one is very difficult. So ah what the hundred eighty degree settle rule is most essential when you're shooting lower frame rates because you don't want jerky looking video.

I would say once you get to sixty frames per second and above are much more willing to break those because that stuttering ss, the sense of frames are closer together isn't quite as prevalent with IT. So the frame, the shutter speed i'll use when I get to high frame rates is dependent on what i'm looking to capture. If I shooting something that moves slower, like people like Chris moving around, I want IT more dramatic.

I will still follow one hundred and eighty degree shadow der role, especially because I can say the panathenaea es, I can just leave at one eight, and it'll do a nice job. But if i'm doing extreme slummer, a very fast moving things, water specifically comes to my, then i'll actually use a faster shutter speed because I want those individual droplets of water to be extremely clear in IT. So that's where i'm willing to break that rule little bit.

But once we go sixty frames and below, I generally always want to keep that you know double your framework rates or shutter speed rule. I find can you really nice look the problem you will run into as if you want to speed or ramp. So like you said, have Normal looking footage that suddenly transitions to slow motion.

It's extremely difficult to do that properly now with having things like electronic variable N D filters, you can pro program so those suddenly open up as you crank up your shutters speed, but that's like high and cinema cameras for the most part. So you'll see this all the time in movies. And I drive my wife crazy with this.

We're watching a scene in a TV shower movie and suddenly the chatter speeds seems to get fast for absolutely no reason. And you're like all they're about the speed drama particular clip. So yet it's something even professional filmmakers they are just like, look, we'll shoot IT in slovo before or after we use that effect.

The shutter speeds are going to be fast, it's going to look weird and people are going to have to deal with IT unless you go to a very elaborate work around for IT. Uh, the last one in terms of time laps, I will throw on there. I always follow the hundred eighty degree shuttle role in time laps.

I know you didn't ask about IT, but if if i'm doing popping a picture every, you know, every four seconds, i'll do two second exposures. I just find that gives you very nice, natural, organic looking time labs without a lot of jerkiness in the footage. Uh, a great rule to try and follow.

If you have enough nd filter, which is why that rivaling ly talked about might be good for time left photographers, but in terms of when you do the conform to your final frame size, I do that in editing software. So I go into light room or capture wonder, whatever exported as full size j pegs, build an image sequence with those and then imposed if I want to. I have the option of digitally cropped or zoom ing within that for where if I were to export you know my files as 4k or eight k um within light remote capture one， then I don't have that same flexibility in my editing software.

And you might find out that you want IT later. The only drawback, of course, is that's quite demanding to edit. So just make sure your computers up to snuff. But I find that the most flexible way to do .

IT did IT I rewarding .

myself with bubble?

Alright, the next one is a speak pipe. Jordan from calgary.

Hey guys, it's Jordan drake from calgary, Alberta. I just want to say I absolutely love the show and geran body. Every single week you keep saying all we've got so many speak pipes, I don't know how we're ever gonna get to all of them.

But joe, you've ttl remember you've got a really good podcast here. It's getting more popular all the time. That means more speak pipes are going to keep showing up and you're probably never gonna get to the end of them.

So but I just think that would be really good for you to just relax every week, just pick a fewer, the best ones and don't worry about getting to absolutely everyone. I mean, we're all enjoying the show, and I think we will all understand as listeners. I've just i'm rambling on and on again.

I just I love the show. You guys are great, especially that video guy. I forget his name and .

yeah man, yeah and and you know what? I'm just i'm so happy that we took the time where we could have answered another speak pipe for somebody to to listener john from cargo because I think that was really insight and curious .

what the listeners will think about that smart.

smart viewers. I think that was really insight. Ful cool. Good.

good use. I loved to the second I sent that speak. I think I was like, ten seconds later I got a ten. And germs, like, what are you .

doing that was you.

Jordan was also like the weak actions, like our, are you forgetting what i'm like? No, Jordan, I am not forgetting one because I put them in .

the order and committed to, yeah, he takes this order that they arrive very seriously so much that even one of the hosts can't jack the format. So he gets to german for that.

I was like a month ago to so oh my god, he didn't want me to say anything to press. I probably shouldn't even put IT in here .

as so that I was going to text to the other day.

But i'm like, yeah, I read all the stuff. I said.

great. I great use to time .

that was a test of.

by the way, me being able to play those live on the show for them to hear. So I may do that going for work because that actually worked pretty well. Um sorry.

Next up is an email from tim hues high triple p. Hope you guys are all in welp. I do think about IT. I'm interested in getting a new camera, not to take Better photos, but to make IT easier for me to get the types of photos I enjoy taking.

My main camera isn't O M one and paired with the three hundred f four a teleconverter, it's pretty good purchasing birds, except OTA focus is not quite as good as IT could be maybe birds sitting in a tree, no worries, the birds and flight belpher's can be a bit more chAllenging for IT. I also, I added doll. He didn't say that I also use IT when traveling in the compromise in terms of noise, performance and sizes, generally something I had been happy with. I also have a pentax k one. There are literally dozens, dozens.

I enjoy using .

IT for landscapes, and astro for, you know, what's funny before I keep reading, this is not the first guy who says that he uses a combination of an O M system camera and a pen tax that seems to be a relatively common combo. I don't know where went, just a Georgeous .

had to make sure that the field mixture is good for his jet hee's getting ready. Take off on another mission.

Anyway, continuing with the question, the k one, but IT waves the same as a compact touch book. So I don't travel with IT too much. what? I am traveling, my favorite cameras, the G R three x, because forty millimeters is the correct focal length.

And I confided in a small bag with the on one I am thinking about the a 7c two， I believe, is really meant to type as something that quite compact, but with great art of focus and quite fast shooting. But then the regions, and quite as good as the microphone d cameras. So do I actually want in A A C A R, A 7， C R, never go.

So I can crop more. And still of something I can print from a three hundred millimeter lens that could also probably replace the key one for landscapes. So essentially, should he replaced both of his cameras with a single camera? Does the only one mark to improve the otto focus enough? By all accounts, probably not.

Is there another camera? I should consider an psc camera. Is that the right compromise in terms of detailed resolution for reach with longer lenses? thanks.

yeah. First off, kudos to you for wanting to use pretty every single brand ever known. I think you should keep going to get a nike on in the canon as well.

I do like the seven cy series of cameras. And I guess the only issues, I would say they're very compact, which is great with a with a slower three hundred million of equivalent lens. Then you are going to a fairly small compact camera, but they don't baLance that great with longer glass. You know it's doable, but it's not it's not a great baLance. I do like the idea of going to hire make a pixel sensor for a wildlife and having that cropping potential.

But the caveat is having more magic xs is great in that regard, but you also have to make sure that they're all sharp, which means that is you go to hire, make a pixel sensors is more demanding to make sure that are avoiding motion blur, that your auto focuses is very accurate. Everything is within the deputy field you want because if there are any issues like slight motion blur, sixty mega pixel is going to reveal that and you're just going to crop into that. You're not going to see any sort of real benefit.

But absolutely, if you can get good sharp results in focus, having higher makes pixel does give wildlife photographs little bit more room to crop and and they are oh wise great cameras other than the evs being pretty entry level. The auto focuses great. They are reliable.

They're nice. Um I don't think the only one work to improve you out of focus enough to necessarily justify IT over what you have. Now i'd probably wait and see what happens if they improve IT further on. But yeah that would be my two sense.

So the next one is in speak pipe from a .

kens guys. The regarding the micon system, I am considering purchasing either that is three or that I mostly shoot um street photography, some low light family indoor events and sometimes at my local cross fit jm I shoot some of their events at strictly photography very rally I take any and video so would you consider going for the possible hier dynamic range of days that f or um the that six three even when shooting the sports event at across fish?

Jim, I refined that I need anything more than five, six fips just to make Chris happy and so yeah in such situations would you consider the that f over the the sixteen? Love the show. Thank you.

First stuff, I really appreciate that that's two people now in this just this episode using fix. So let's keep up going. I goes that if it's super sexy, I love the black and White option on the switch, right?

A nice quick. You're onna. Get plenty of fips to cover the kinds striped graphs want to do. And then having Better dynamic range, why not?

I do like IT. I personally don't think that the dynamic Green chair on the these is that big deal. It's not that big. It's not so if you put not that angle of the z six three over the Z F, which I think is a very valid thing to consider. I don't see a problem going to six three and ignoring the video features that .

camera entirely. You can gives you the f, gives you the sexy body. I like the handling just fine.

Does that six three you get secret? And does that six three main strength are going to be that partially stack sensor, which is giving you basically insanely fash shooting speeds and good rolling shuttle electronics, shuttle usage. And those are both things that you might use for strep, but not very often. Well.

he says cross certainly too like if they're doing action stuff in cross fit. I think you'll find that right now, you say you don't use more than five or six fips. If you were given the option to use more than five or six fips, then I think you'd take IT.

But this ef shoots more than five or six. So but these six.

three shoots more than the the Z, F does, of course.

especially when you break into electronics shutter. More insane. I know there's .

a reason to select both. Jordan, what do you think?

So the one that jumped out to me when we did our recent set up first has had six, three comparison is I do really like having the audio focus joysticks with a three d tracking. I find that's a really nice combination combined with the fact that at six three has that much Better if you find her. I find for that kind of stuff, especially shooting like low light, i'm going to begin the EV f quite a bit.

Ah so that would steer me that way a little bit. And the big thing I keep hearing with dynamic range, people saying like I don't see a dynamic arrange difference. It's only if you push the shadows.

If you pushing shadows constantly and post, then sure be concerned about dynamic range. But if you find you're not doing that, then that means the current dr that you've got available is more than sufficient. So it's not even a factor.

Isn't IT mainly also the lower I S O N two?

Yeah, as soon as you've got about eight hundred, they hit parody again. So if you're in a dark cross fit, jim, shooting at sixteen hundred, you've got no image quality difference. And obviously that I prefer the handling and vf on the set. Six.

three. Thank you, George.

Thank 喂。 Kind of agenda going on here. I A Z.

F, in this house right now, and I don't have. This is six, three. So I can play both sides of this.

Oh my god. Right last .

one is an email from felix. Hey, guys, this is felix. I have some questions for you guys. First, I don't understand what's so special about like a triple resolution technology.

Why having a lower resolution raw files is Better than using the full sixty mechanics and resizing IT to a lower resolution? Second, is using third party batteries safe enough for cameras or lights? Do you guys use them to third, IT is a useless to put a mechanical shutter inside of a camera with a global shuttle sensor.

And one extra question just for fund. Do you believe you we will ever see a camera that can capture one Peter pixel before we die? Thanks, and have a great day. Let's do those in order. So what's special about like a triple resolution tech?

Well, nothing really. I mean, a of a lot of manufacturers offer lower resolution. A lot of many factories offer lower resolution profiles on high magics sensors.

If you feel that you definitely don't need the extra mega pixels and you want to save storage space and you know maybe speed up by shooting and stuff in some cases. So that's what that is. And there's certainly useful that, I mean, some people want to have smaller files but still have the raw malabo. Um so that's that's what they are doing there.

Yeah, I think it's important to point out when they initially introduced that they said you've got lower resolution raw for low light performance ah, which is very different generous because if you look at them, they would show them side at one hundred percent magnification and absolutely the higher as had more noise. But if you looked at them at the same viewing size, they're exactly the same. So do IT to save space, don't do IT for low light performance?

No, no, that's silly. Second, third party battery safe enough for cameras or lights? Yeah I mean, yes, I I i'm sure there's some stories out there and and certainly there's repeatable brands of third party batteries that you can buy.

But but honestly, I ve never really had any bad experiences. That being said, you know certainly more for things like lighting. I mean amount batteries I don't care IT can be a provocative of generous ah as far as i'm concerned.

But when IT comes to portable batteries, you absolute to make sure that you're getting something that has the the power that you need, the power delivery that you need. When IT comes to cameras, often third party batteries, you're going to lose certain features and support. And so, you know, I tend not to rely on that much anymore.

IT used to be a really big thing back on the D, S, L, R days and early mirrors. Now I think more and more people are sticking to original manufacturing batteries, and I think that's probably safe. Choice is as far as keeping your camera performance optimal.

Yeah, I think that definitely in camera I try to avoid third party because they do tend to be a little bit smarter about detecting nats, like you said, ability, some features when if you're looking at video formats, I mean, you're going third party generally. And I can say we've seen a huge variety.

I remember when, Chris, I were boosters one afternoon, and there was a loud bang and an amount battery in my bag exploded that was still attached to a atomic ninja record. Could have started a fire, you know, no reason I could have. So in those, yeah, I am very cautious. I don't leave them attach to anything um when there you know in my basement or something like that. And I take them off the charger as soon as they're done.

But again, could have been physical damage that could .

have been crack signed to my equipment. So that's a possibility, but I can say that never to a first party where I was like, if that happened anywhere else, I could have burned a house down.

Now on older cameras, this is a caveat on older cameras like I bought something on kh or something used and it's five years old or something. I would, you know, I believe the batteries are hard to find. I'd get generic. sure. yeah. No problem. Lute, yeah.

I'd rather have a new third party battery than an ancient .

first party battery. Yeah, hundred percent is use. Put the mechanical shelter inside a camera with a global shelter sensor. Yeah, kinda sort, pretty much.

Yeah yeah yeah. I sensor. What we saw with the nineteen three is the dr. That that penalty is going to come along with the sensor design anyways.

So yeah, unless they figure out away, like icon was put that patent in to like read out as a rolling shutter or a global shutter. And there's a dr advantage that, that might make sense. But with current technology, there's no reason for that to be one except that IT is super satisfying when your camera is so cool kie.

But you know, again, even global sheltered dr is still pretty decent, right? I mean, we are kind of getting to that point where it's not as bigger consideration as he used to .

be for most people. Last one is, i'm guessing the question about seeing a camera shoot a Peter pixel meaning the sensor itself .

before .

I die is is a pet pixel not like because even now give pixel cameras are typically stitching so it's like, right we're not even at a gia pixel yet yeah .

I don't think it's onna happen. I am certainly not for Jordan because he's going to have an ejection seat accident here on his next mission. So which is the ask right? Don't worry about IT.

But is that a good or bad or middle way to die?

I think you pretty quick, but be horrible. But you know .

it's horrible for migrant and so just think about migrant IT .

depends on the type of thing that would happen because if he dies, like at altitude, that's probably quick. But there's a multiple other ways to die on your wave down that they tell you about when they're briefing you on how to survive an object. And there's a lot of them and several of those are horrible.

So joran comfortable.

what's the best american air superiority fighter ever made? In your opinion.

as an expert, as an expert, IT is the if sixteen i've heard before. No, that's an apple of fourteen.

Fourteen is also an APP atr.

It's not usually on the lens. Me and my good heart did I do fourteen?

Tomcats a great airplane, yes. And IT is what they basically featured in top gun and top going to. But it's the fifteen. The fifteen eagle is actually the best, in my opinion. Anyways, we can argue about that.

Later came for dos called fifteen. So maybe I should have .

one that he strike ages and amazing.

a tensions of underworld warhol.

no is sure, but not as an air superiority .

in the of my death period. The ground. I facing up.

they're facing up, playing out. And it's really sad. It's very sad. I love the ten warhol. yeah.

Finally, transitioning back to what this shows actually about was .

IT a feel good story.

And IT was not. No, the feel good story of the week is that cannon USA is now offering cps membership to students for free.

It's adorable.

Actually a good tear of C, P, S. membership. It's one that typically have to pay for, uh, students gate the three to five business day service, turn on time on D, R, or mirrors, cameras, as well as if an r of ten percent discount on repairs, complimentary can and maintain service on up to two items per membership term, onsite events support exclusive purchase offers or not to one item per year and access to the cps mentorship hot line.

That's great. That's great. yeah. So the one thing I was wondering .

if you're in like a journalism program is that something cannon was already offering to schools that they are now extending to students personnel stuff. I'm wondering about that a little bit if they would like a rush, a school's fleet of cameras. But I don't have the answer for that. And IT only occurred to me twenty seconds ago, so I didn't .

research IT. I will say .

that because i'm spontaneous, split by the seat of my pants kind of guy.

I will say that this is slightly Better than cannon silver tear, which is free. Uh you don't get the repair discount uh with the silver tier ah so that's nice. Um but neither the silver or the student has equipment evaluation loans that requires the gold service gold platinum cinema get that. Um but still having any of this as included for nothing to a student that's great. So that makes me feel like canon is at least trying to do something more .

here and that feels good very nice, right? Well, hey, every we appreciate you stick around on that somewhat long podcast but yeah that all IT yeah they .

called work for coming .

on ah and the top gun instructor that creates .

yeah now thanks to own system and clean my map response ing the sudden we'll see .

all next week 拜拜。

Super stuck. I was going to try to matic.

Ally, please include that, please.

So I like IT. No, no, let's go on in.