538: A Lot of Mac in Your Face
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From real gue, this is upgrade episode five hundred and thirty eight toy show was brought to by square space fit board notion and small to world. My name is my lie, and i'm joined by Jason. Hi Jason.

Hi my Carry you.

I'm pretty good. Thank you. How you i'm .

pretty good, very excited to big game. We care about my but lovable w my val cow bears are five and five, five hundred times IT doesn't matter. You throw the records out when you're playing against the hated stanford cardinal.

So take off that red.

take off that red share. You're right. Roll on.

You bears on the way to a probably really raining and wet saturday sitting in berkeley. But that's okay. We do IT because we love IT.

Anyway, I yeah, good week, fun week. I'll play some marching band music later. Be great.

I was no talk question for you. Consume steer, who asks, do you prefer to travel by planes, trains or automobile iles?

And I see what steward is doing here still is making a reference to the classic john hugh film, planes, trains and automobile beal staring john Kenny and Steve Martin certifiable thankyou a giving day classic. Um and what do I prefer to travel on um well mostly I I travel on automobile because I prefer them because they're very convenient and there are no trains by my house um and planes.

There's a whole there's a whole region all um I I love traveling on a train but IT happens to me so rarely and planes I don't know I it's like I actually kind of enjoy the the plane ride. I don't love the rest of IT, but I actually kind of love the plane, right, because I just put on my heads phone and read my book and I and i'm very happy to just sit there and read for hours and there's nobody bugging me and there's nothing else I want to do. If I did work on the plane, i'd be a little more grumpy, but I generally use that as reading time.

And so IT becomes kind of a refuge. So but I like a good road trip too. I don't think of I don't think I have a preference here.

They're all different and they're all they're have their advantages. So sorry, steward, I you just do more. What you do is like the characters and planes, trains and automobiles. You know, you ride for several hours in the back of a refrigerated truck and you get very cold.

The worst way to do IT is to do all of them.

Yes, that's true. That's true. Separated by various other people haven't seen playing trains are on the movies. So we just did IT for the uncomfortable.

That episode will be out just in time for thanksgiving and is I know, right? And it's it's a classic IT really is a great movie. There's so many things about that that are good .

that ll be this weeks episode corporation get 了 个 yeah um my preference is playing because of the destination。 So from getting on a plane, yes most likely the most exciting destination right is gonna be when I get a feel for .

sure for sure somebody um in the chat mentioned buses and I just say a years of riding like a school bus and sound like I hate buses. That said I also was a bus computer for like fifteen years after the bus every single day for fifteen years. And I didn't hate the bus, but it's not my favorite. That's a travel line at the bus.

yeah. I would go. Planes, trains, autumn bil's bus, all of trains. I take trains happily every day.

You, when we have to mentioned yet, I for two years I was a fairy commuter.

Now that's an interesting way to live. Yeah.

right? A boat every day. And that was actually very great. That was really civilized. Uh, I enjoyed writing about that was a, that was a fun time. So get out in there above buses for sure very well.

if you have a snow talk question you'd like for us to answer the future of of the show, just go to upgrade feedback, tom, and you can send us your snow to all question. Thank you to steer for that one I enjoyed. You can give the gift of rely for every year.

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Why not get yourself for the holidays or send gift? They don't come to a family member or friend, and they can help sign you up for one whole year. About great glasses, a twenty and off. Pretty great, right? Jason?

Yeah, pretty good. Pretty good. What deal such a bargain you want to give the gift to people you love of? Really, really.

That's why you know why some people .

ask why we asked .

why not exactly got some follow up, lot of people rote and we mentioned that you you text me off last week apology you said you really enjoyed our conversation that we had about in lawyer up which was fun I enjoyed IT to this IT was a good time to return to the topic of apple in the eupeptic on um and this spd a lot of conversation from a listeners uh first comes from Chris.

Chris says, uh, rather than apple dramatically pulling out of the european market, I think the most likely outcome of european commission decision that apple violated the D. M. A.

Would be years of grinding litigation. Want to be a way to put IT. Uh, for comparison, the european commission's decision in the irish irish tax case came in twenty sixteen in the final appeal wasn't resolved until twenty twenty four.

Here's here's a thing about this. So here's thing about this. They ended up having to pay IT and the years of grinding litigation.

If there's another fine, find another fine, another fine and they keep a creaming fines. They're like, oh yeah, but we're going to do this in granting litigation. And five years from there they're told, no, you need to pay at all.

They're now accumulated five years of things that are going to have to pay. I don't think it's a long term strategy um and they remember they lost the case. So it's it's a tough one that that's a tough A A tough strategy for ongoing fines to bank on you ultimately winning your case. good.

Give the dr is like, yeah, you can you can do this. But then not only you eventually pay the fine that they told you wanted to pay in the first place, but you also have to pay the legal fees for your lawyers to be in core of this and presumably .

all the further fines for your continuing if you asked, assuming you continue not complying, you would continue to be fined. That how works? It's not a single thing that keep refining you. So not great chAllenging in in court is a good strategy for individual finds like if the european commissions has look, you did this thing with with determining your location and all of that, that we're talking about, and we think that you need to pay now because you were a violation at this for this about the time. If it's like a one time deal, know if that one is or not.

But I if that one time deal, sure of course you gonna argue IT that the danger is if it's an ongoing that um is not going to be a resolved for years. You are you still have to make a decision about whether you're going to continue to defy the rule or not because if you lose, guess what? You're just, you know a crude years of that. So I think there's a real danger there.

An an interesting uh, clarification maybe from at something I didn't really consider from something you says the commission is not the courts are separate. So a fine from the commission is the same as the liberal case in the U. S.

Even if they issue to find IT, we'll still go through the courts. The commission does not have the power to just find companies about and being able to defend themselves. Sure, there always be some level of legal discussion, but it's if they will continue to appeal IT on not is the right.

It's like the um the ftc of the judge or the justice department in the U S. That IT goes through the courts at that point. Again, that's the danger. That's the danger is that you might lose court and .

analyst right thing says apple doesn't have to walk away from the E. U. But what they could do is send a shot across the E. U, lawmakers bow by scaling back job numbers in countries like germany and france. S, the E, U, powerhouses and and so like E, U, power houses and move those roles to non E, U, countries like the U, K, of the U, S, A, which recalls massive pressure on this government. Interesting thought maybe.

although again, I think the european commission is is controlled by the european parliament, which would be the individual countries governments. So IT would need to put pressure on voters, or certainly make, I mean, we we talk about this last diplomatic pressure. One of the games here is diplomatic pressure, which is, hey, maybe europe needs to look at what the european commission is doing and say, maybe we've gone too far here.

That seems unlikely to me, but that would be one way you could play. This is, is kind of put pressure on there. And I know that there's other other talk about like how the incoming administration in the U.

S. Might also try to put pressure on europe uh, and that tim could apparently like called trump before the election and to complain at least this is A. The story that is, is out there to complain about what europe was uh, making them do.

So it's possible um but again, you're risking you're still going to get fined. So there's that without walking away, you're still going to get fined and then you're playing a different game of hardball and hoping that they crumble. And you have to be pretty confident that if you move some jobs out of europe, that they're going to say, oh, oh, don't do that.

We're sorry. Please come back. You can do whatever you want.

And I mean, people in europe can tell me if this is different, but might read from here, based on everything i've seen, is that there is very little appetite in europe to give more free rain to us tech giants. So seems like a bad play. But they could do that.

They could try IT digested a quick google search, and apparently apple employees, one thousand, five hundred and engineers in germany.

Logic, I don't know who else. Definitely logic. That's a lot of engineers, fifty hundred engineers and else working out.

at least that's what google A I over you is telling me.

But well, so it's probably not right.

You knows who can tell, but even is an interesting idea, right, that they could they could threaten the threaten. They could exact pressure in different ways, right?

Of course, of course. But again, you're left with, see, this is the problem though I do I think that apple could tim cook go to germany and say you're killing us here. What can we do? You we've got plans.

We've got engineers. Let's work on this. But like that's not where IT is. It's in brussels at the E. C is that is the commission in brussels, don't know, but it's right.

That's where the parliaments um it's the rope an commission and it's the european parliament and these are eurolire things that are part of the E. U. So diplomacy with germany doesn't really get you anywhere.

And I think that the chAllenge is like diplomacy with the E U. Seems a lot harder to get your you just even get your arms around IT. You just try to get me to purchase .

with IT these individual member states apart, the european, if if they were to pressure some of the bigger countries in the european union, IT does. They do still work together, right? Like pressure placed on germany and france could. Assistant change in e IT. could.

But they can do IT alone. They would have to do with everybody else. And again, I think that you d you've got your members of the european and parliament who passed these rules that are independently elected, right? They're not appointed by the the governments, I don't believe no.

but there's support the political parties.

Sure sure. Although sometimes the parties, the parties that are europe and not the parties that are in charge in the country, correct. So it's I guess what this one i'm saying that is, is if this was just germany is haven't regulating us, what do we do? The answer is talk to germany. But it's like europe is regulating us. What do we do is like talk to a bunch of european countries and like IT, just it's it's much slippery to .

do definitely is .

possibly by design uh.

from a different perspective. Now legal dimensions. If apple makes the integrated smart glasses that you were talking about in last week episode, could they walk around the D. M.

A by not selling them in the european union? So I have the couple of things going on here. I mean, they could do that.

I don't think that, that is an issue for them. Now like this is not gonna qualify as a gag eber product immediately. Language is the problem of the dma.

And if the issue is around, like apple opening up the iphone for extra products, that making this is not onna change that role the u wants to open up no matter what, right? Like if you make an accessory product, you can communicate with the iphone. So I don't think the cities would affect that.

I'm not sure whether the E. U. Can Mandate that there be smart glasses conachan ity for third parties. If apple, because apple is making smart glasses, if apple is not making, not telling them in the eu.

And not sure they can reach that far, say other elsewhere in the world, do you have this? But not here. I think the reality would be what's happening with apple intelligence, which is the E.

U. Will get them later, that apple will ship them elsewhere. And then they'll be a software update six months or a year later that enabled some of the things that are required by the dma and then they'll come to europe.

But to directly answer this question, sure. But I don't think that I don't think their goal is ever to invest in building a new product and then not have to be available in the eu. And remember what I said last last week, which is it's not just going to be the eu.

You're you're in danger of turning your back on any group that regulate tes. You and that could be japan and could be korea and that could be other IT could be, you know who knows where that would say, oh, we like what the europe is doing. We're going to do IT too. And do you want to do you want to take that risk and lose those sales?

yeah. And I think I do think for the time being, anything that apple launches the E, U. Will be later in the stack.

You know like how they launch in open such in such countries. I can see for the foale future, the E, U. And there or any other nation or that wants to regular apple more heavily.

They may just take more time before they launched these things, right? Like apple intelligence is coming to the E, U, but it's coming later. And I think I think that's gonna start to occur, right? You know, those sell things in the us first, then U K.

In canada, then maybe a japan, china, then they must like gone to french in germany. I I think we they just don't want to, they want to to get things out there and maybe work with the E. U.

A little Better afterwards because obviously to get the E. U. Once, no, is of anything. Because I so IT may be the things. Do you roll out a little bit more slowly that now than they have done in the past?

Yeah, I think that that's exactly that is that is that ale's gonna share information that I think somebody actually complained about this at one point where apple intelligence got announced and they're like, well, how dare they is like guys, they're not gonna are that with you in advance the first of you would leak and and and then just they're gonna do IT and so if the game is well, we have to see IT before we can you know even do a ruling about whether we think it's acceptable or not.

This is what will happen is that IT will be announced and not for them and then no work IT out. And and I think that's the model. I think that you're exactly right that it's going to be this will be available in europe six months from now or a year from .

now and all of a road in to say there actually is a way uh, with keyboard exclusion while using the vision for mac virtual displayed, that the keyboard remains persistent, not just when you have your hands near the keyboard. If you go into settings and then awareness and safety, there is an option to turn off, quote, bring hands near to reveal. If you turn that off, the keyboard should always remain included when using environments.

So I got this from a few people. yeah. And IT IT entirely misses what I was saying. Oh, so i'm going to say that again, which is my bug in visions O S, is if you turn on an environment when you're not looking at your keyboard, the keyboard will never appear. Doesn't have anything to do with where your hands are.

I think this is an interesting feature that you can have IT disappear when your hands aren't over for the keyboard, or you can have to always be there. These are interesting decisions that they've made. I think that's great.

What i'm saying is the only way I can use a keyboard and see IT in vision s if I dial up the environment while staring at the keyboard because if i'm not looking at the keyboard, i'm looking at a thing that i'm working on and I dial in an environment and then I look back down to my keyboard, it's not there and IT never shows up. I found the feedback about IT. I don't know whether the issue is that they I mean, my guess is that they do their scan for the keyboard when the environment has entered and then they don't do IT again.

And I think that's a mistake. I think they need to be looking for that keyboard object even when you're in the environment. Like what if you dial up an environment and then you put a keyboard in your lap afterward?

Uh well, too bad you won't see IT because it's not persistent. IT needs to like know that the keyboards there, I think that's a bug um and if not, it's it's certainly a missing feature, but it's it's not this. So I I obviously a several people who know about this feature thought that this is what I was talking about. That's not yet. It's that I I literally can't get keyboards to show up if i'm not staring at them when I turn on the environment.

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Get on the line. It's time for room around up here. Let's do IT. This is very a home focus today, apple home products. We're going to start out by talking about another mark garman report, uh, where he shares even more details about apple's upcoming smart home controlling product of the screen that we need a name for.

I think without a robotic ARM. But I seen I think nine .

to five mac or micro m may above calling IT home bad as a kind of a short end. But we need something because it's becoming more complicated to explain what this might be because it's also not really home pod with a anymore, which is what we were calling IT before, something slightly different to that. Um so we can think about that what was the name of the ipod speaker dock thing? What was that cold?

That was the ipod high? five.

Okay.

that's .

gonna a onna.

I I think I I joke last week that I was, uh that we could just call the .

house pod terrible name.

I love IT the home pod. House pod. There's totally different.

totally different, totally different, totally different. Uh, so this device is, I think somewhat unexpectedly to me, are expected today, but as early as much of next year and be mark calls IT like competitively Priced to products in the category.

Yeah, that's really interesting. I mean, again, this is where a my my rule comes into into effect. Where is my classic? Don't get be prepared for disappointment rule where you like, oh, it's gonna competitive, Priced with a product that cost you, whatever, two hundred dollars or a like.

Echo show is one fifty. The ecosoc is one eighty. The next top max costs two thirty.

I'm like, okay, well, again so that so it's a two thirty, but we're going rounded up to two fifty and then we're gna increase IT to three hundred, three fifty. I mean, still it's not a thousand dollars. We we had a whole segment a few years ago.

We were worried about the robotic lib product in being a thousand dollars for a you know A A thing you put on your kitchen encounter. And IT seemed bananas. This I love the idea of IT being compatibly Priced, even if it's for apple, that's a good thing.

And if if they can make IT two fifty or two hundred and amazing, right like a also, we have to say governments reports suggest that it's got accessories. So this is really interesting to me because we've been talking about a home pod with a screen and IT sounds like it's what if it's a touch screen device that's less than an ipad? It's not an ipad.

It's definitely lesser than that. And it's got a simplified interface. But then there's like a walmart that's probably got like a charger on IT that you can attach in various ways. And then there's a speaker amount, which I would read, that is being basically like a homepage that IT sits on and that gives the power that way.

Um those rights are were like oh competitor Price because like if it's competitor Price with like an ipad speaker and two hundred dollars, but you're really going to want if you don't know homeboys, you'll really gonna to buy the speaker attachment for another two hundred and fifty dollars or three hundred dollars or whatever, right? IT will be a classic APP of move IT will be IT will get pricing fast. And I I actually kind love that as a move for apple to sell this thing at a relatively competitive Price and then say, yeah that you really want the accessories know you that's a very apple thing to do .

yeah so you mentioned this warmouth speaker dogs, but IT has a battery of its own and speak of its own. I think I want to do IT use IT for certain things. You might put IT on the kitchen counter speaker dock so you can watch movies while you're cooking. And then maybe you want to put IT on the wall the rest of the time. So IT becomes like the thing that people.

we've got a little we got a little wh stand for an ipad for the kitchen like a wood block fang. And and it's and it's nice. And I could see putting something like that in there and then like plugging IT into an outlet and that's not a fancy doc that's just free um but you could do that too. But yeah, having the battery IT means that IT can also be portable. Um and who knows what the battery life will beyond IT, but you might have the ability to sort of like yeah unplugged from wherever IT lives and then bring IT with you and then you know use IT in the kitchen or put on the coffee table or whatever.

I will also feature a sensor to determine how far away a user is from the device and adapt on screen U. I, to match. That just was interesting.

could be interesting. Yeah I mean, that there is it's apparently going to support up intelligence, right? Which means that it's going to have enough kind of like sensors and uh, ability to run models on IT that stuff like this.

There are versions of this that happen for other devices like even my google nest home mini pro max, whatever it's called. Um there are so many names in that product. I don't even remember what there is any more next hub home mini um it's a it's got you can wave your hand at IT to dismiss an right like it's got some stuff like that. But I like this idea that like if you're far away, it's gonna you the big the big interface and if you're write next to what it's going to give you a smaller interface, that's smart. That's really smart.

I wanted to I just thought maybe they just call this thing apple home.

I mean, IT would be just as confusing as apple TV, but that just stop there .

like because I think, no, they can't call IT that because they have an APP called the home. And then I realize our apple T V plus is part of apple T V, which is an APP that is on the apple T V. So at this point is probably I I put my chips down on apple home as the name of this product.

Um okay quite from a government and the product has a touch interface that looks like a blend. The apple watch Operating system and the iphones recently launched standby mode as unexpected in weird micon. Imagine, like I like what is going on there that copy right? Well.

that that somebody who is describing IT, who saw IT and is describing IT to margera, it's the, it's the parable of the of the men in the elephant, right? The blind men in the elephant, everybody, he's got a different description of IT and then you're playing a game of be of telephone almost are you like a IT looks like this like, oh, does IT, but we don't really know. Apple watch seems weird, but like simplified Operating system.

okay? Like there are there are complications and then there is the chain of like little many, little many wages that are basically uh dynamic island items that are on the apple watch now um and then they're stand by mode on the iphone um recently launched like more than year ago. But okay, uh but clearly, this is this is where they are going is that they're going to have the small screen.

But they've got a bunch of technology already in existence that lets them put widget like things in on a small screen or on a slightly largest screen, but seen from a distance, right that's the other part of what they are doing here. Um I think that's again, I don't know quite what form this is taking um and there's some chAllenges with things like stand by mode as well. And standby mode is not an interactive mode, which is the other part of this is like I assume that there's a standby mode ask thing where you're not interacting with IT. And then when you come closer, you touch IT or whatever, then there's an interaction mode that's a completely different kind of interface.

So if you mentioned that will support apple intelligence, and mark apparent says IT is apparently and designed for apple tense support, but the some of the details of his article suggest IT won't have an APP store is on yes, apple will be making a sweet of first party apps so the corrupt you'd expect. So where the apintment coming from inside .

the house, I guess.

So my expectation is, and I said, uh, under school was talking about this two in regards to widget that I would I might expect here, this device is pulling from other devices in the house, right? If you are at home, your phone is at home. And so you're using this thing, and IT may be pulling wigeon apintment information from your phone in the way that like a mac does know, or the way that an apple watch does as a way to kind of bridge the gap. Do not have another APP store, another development point for developers to just pull some information from the other devices that are in the home.

Yeah so my so the start with up intense, my guess is that where that's starting and it's just starting there is apple's own stuff. It's it's the idea that apple got some knowledge of your information that runs on this device and that you can control the software, uh, using theory uh, but like I think this is a chAllenge because you can't have IT not be functional when.

When your iphone leaves the house, right? So it's got to to be functional on that level. But we already see with a home pod that we've got this personal request kind of thing where IT IT allows you to tap into an iphone that's on the network that is paired with the upper I D. And then they it'll also do voice recognition and like there are things they can do there about like who's using this and what data do I have access to. But yes, the idea of apintment really is that you can extend the vocabulary of siri a and a apple l intelligence by tapping into the functionality of third party apps, which aren't going to exist on this, apparently.

So you end up in this question sort of like, what is this thing? And I love the idea that that uh underscore had that is what if the mac budget projection system that shipped well, if it's the issue last year um and then now it's more and it's more integrated this year because we've got the iphone mirrors and the the notifications will launched the iphone of things like that, but they IT shift last year. What if that is a test on and that and and obviously David Smith underscore is thinking about which is smith, he is APP third party APP.

If he doesn't have access to the device, what does that mean? Well, what if IT does have access to the device? Because what if IT is looking at your iphone and knows that your iphone has widget Smith on IT and has that widget that can run and stand by, and IT says, I can run that too.

I can show that thing from your phone, which makes this thing much more of an an iphone accessory, which I think is interesting. Now it's going to have to fall back because if you leave the house and you don't have your iphone anymore and somebody else in the house is looking at that screen, it's got to have something on IT, right? It's got to be useful in some way.

Um and the question is like how much infrastructure do they have to build on the iphone to support this thing, right? Because that's a big deal, right? They have to do an O S update on the iphone to project things onto this device or sink things with these devices. And what we haven't seen with any devices, apple intelligence sort of like working with another devices data store because that's the thing you could do here too with like uh, all of the the personal, uh, the semantic index thing, right? Like is my apple home thing going to download on my email and index IT or is IT going to just talk to my iphone about what email IT knows about and what my personal context is?

I think however they do this, I so like my initial thoughts and saying no episodes. I that's madness because like how would I watch youtube videos? But then my second thought as well, I think the vision pro has shown, uh, is becoming harder and harder to get them to make. Developers want to make up to new platforms. So if apple was able to find a way I don't know how right, but find a way to benefit from the apps that you haven't sold on another device in side of your home, they should they should do that.

Yeah I what I don't understand here is why they aren't supporting ipad apps or iphone apps or T V O S apps right like that. There isn't like a an APP compatibility. I get IT. It's a weird screen and it's not like the other screens and all of that. But especially if you're dealing with widget, an apintment.

And look, mike, for all we know, that is what they're going to do is there won't be an APP store, but you'll be able to sink over like I wouldn't put I wouldn't put past apple for them to make this announcement and say, hey, developers, good news. There's a new set of A P. S that allow you to sink over some level of code that drives widget from your iphone.

And then they reside on this device and they run on this device like, wow, that's a wild. But they could do IT if they want to do. They could say, actually, there's no upstart because IT runs apps from your iphone, but in a certain mode and IT just IT picks them up from wrapper ID and downloads the right thing and does the right thing and sinks IT with your your are your your iphone apps. And there may be no facility for that today, but there's nothing stopping them from saying we just added that go hey developers, hey David smith, go at this thing and so that your widget run on this, they could totally do that. So IT does um David job in our chat says feels like were missing a piece of the puzzle here and I there is the fact that this is not a simple a story as oh, and it's gonna n ipad apps or it's going to rent iphone apps or .

it's gonna N T B O S apps or has its own apps is another thing to, I think the wrong thing .

to it's not any of that. The simplest explanation is it's gonna start with apple stock stuff that is built and then they'll see how IT does and then they will then expand IT later. Um but I I would argue that that makes stand by less interesting IT makes the full experience a little less interesting, but it's a lot less ambitious.

But it's a lot simpler if you've got you know basically safari and um and home map and the TV APP and like a very limited selection of stuff that you can do um that they've already built. IT makes this product way simpler at the very least. But IT is a mystery that they're all these details about APP tense and no APP store but we gets that um like the simple explanation is IT will be way simpler than we think.

But I wouldn't put a past apple that there is a little added idea or a bit of complexity that we don't know that. And I think that's good because one of my big complaints about something like the home pod is that it's not integrated enough with the contents of your phone, right? If if apple really views the iphone as the repository for people's personal information, then if your iphone is present in your house, when you're there, your devices on the network, your apple devices that are authenticated and also logged into your apple I D should be able to leverage that device, which has all that knowledge, and in the future, your semantic index to do stuff.

And if you throw in also the apps that are on IT and the standby wages that are on IT and all and the best top or or a notification center or lock screen widget that are on all of those things are already running on IT. Maybe the maybe the other apple devices in the home should be smarter about using those. And then separately, for multiple people should be like apple already has the technology to recognize you based on your voice and different to you from other people.

So the other way you take this is, and this gonna a camera. So maybe I would even be able to detect you buy your face to just say, oh, this request came from this person so i'm going to use their iphone and then you've got a device that adapts based on who's using IT, which again, sounds really good, but a little more complicated. And that brings me back to like how complicated is up of going to make this my an algorithm make this a little a little tangent to my thing about um pricing or the pricing always going to dia point you because I can be higher than you think.

I would also say um the apple products that shipper are always going to be simper than you think. There's all any number of things they could do they want. They won't do most of them, but they might do a little bit because I agree, I think the vella version of this is fine, but these reports suggest it's not quite that.

So I think they're going to do something, but I don't think it's going to be a big chain of complexity, in part because that would be very expensive and in part because they wanted ship the product, right? And like if IT does well, then they're like, aha, now we have a plan of attack for how we add to this going forward. So but I do think there's a missing peace here.

IT is a little bit confusing. I love my iphone in standby mode. I leave IT in the kitchen and it's got a weather widget on IT that I built in script table and it's got the time and it's actually really nice.

And um I would love for that sort of thing to run on one of these devices. IT would be disappointing if all I get anywhere is the very, very stock apple experience. Like you're using an iphone with no third party apps, that would be a lot less exciting.

Another, a little tibet in this report, which is separated from the apple home device from government, says apple has exploded, building its own line of small home accessories ies, including an indoor security camera that could doubles the baby monitor. The idea would be to emphasize privacy controls, one of apple's hallMarks.

I will now also go to mini quo, who is reporting that apple is apple magic, its own smart home camera, in twenty twenty six. Quote says apple expects this to be a major accessory which targets to ship tens of millions of units a year, to which I say body that's agressive, that's progressive. Tens of millions of units.

That's a lot of units. Maybe this is an an interesting idea for them, but I don't yeah I would have to be really good to get people to either decide to do something ever wanted to do or replaced the products you've already bought because apple wasn't done IT. And then to ship tens of millions of units a year would be aggressive.

Here's my reaction to this. My reaction to this is that I wonder how big the potential market for this category is versus what's out there now. And based on my exploration, and I bought a bunch of different internet connected cameras over the over the last few years and i've been disapointment every single one of them.

Every single one of them is not very good, whether they're using their own cloud service or they're recording to um you know a memory card in a base station or whether they're using home kits, cure video, none of them are reliable. They're always oh like, oh, let's check on this camera or it's down. Why is IT down? Don't know, no reason.

Oh, it's back up now just I find them very unreliable. And so first off, i'm a little skeletons, al that even the market that's out there, how many people are actually using them? I'm sure there are very they are the more expensive kinds and things, things that are hardwired and all list of that are Better.

But my based on my experience with this category, I would say. Is there there's room for apple in IT. Put that way, there's room for apple here to make something that is Pricey because it's apple, but good. And if they can do that, if they can make a pry, good, easy to set up for people in an apple ecosystem, set of cameras have to be the baby monitor.

Thing is interesting is the idea that, like, you can put, this is an indoor camera, and you can use that as a baby monitor and set, settle up to, you know, to do what? They've got all the parts, right? They got inner come and and i've got like alerts based on sound like they could build some stuff with this that would be perfectly fine.

And you have a an element of of comfort t with apple and the cause that that product of like there's not going to be some privacy breach or something and someone can, you know the book in man, come and watch the camera or whatever IT will be home .

kids care video or you might have the ability to store IT locally on on another device. I think it's an interesting idea. And I think because of again, it's because of my experience with this category, I feel like there's probably a large unaddressed market of people who might want these things, but just don't either. I've tried IT and have failed or have never even considered IT.

And if you know, the fact is, I don't know, i'm sure there are people who are out there and say, well, you know, there are so many ring door bills out there so this must be fine like, okay, yeah, maybe so and and remember how long ago was that that that there was drop cam and now that's just a nest cam from google like these cameras have been around for a long time. But that doesn't mean that apple can't come in and say, well, ours is way Better, more reliable for something that looking inside your home, you need to have trust in who's doing IT. I think there are a lot of areas where when I saw this report, I thought I can see you I can see apple making a run here and having IT be successful because of the way they sell IT.

And because if if they can do IT right, they are entering a market that's not great. It's like there are plenty of players. But again, my experience, they're not very good. So I think it's an interesting idea.

They do have a good play like they're obvious ly their understanding of cameras and video and their security like IT IT would help them build a compelling story is one last thing I want to bring in now. And then I want to make a lover point. So mark government also mentioned in his part on this last, an apple is for evaluating the idea of making A T V set, again, actual T V um and that this would hint the success of apples of a small home devices.

So this this apple home home device, maybe this camera, I want apple to make these kinds of products because I would like them. However, I am concerned about apple making all these new products. Why are they doing this? Like I I worry that this is being done to fill earnings report. I was going to say .

its depend the curve of the wearable home accessory is categories into growth again.

And i'm not sure that, that is like all of these products apple should have done five years ago, ten years ago, even so.

But I agree, I think that apple abandoning the home market was a huge mistake on their part. I mean, they're doing fine, but like I think they could have played in a bunch of these areas and they allowed competitors to get into those areas too. But does that mean they should never do IT? I guess that that's my take on IT is like, yes, this is this is Better late than never.

Is my answer right, that that you shall have done this five years ago? You should have done this in all sorts of different categories, not the low margin stuff, but like enough for you to make a line of products that are going to bring people in the apple stores over the holidays and they're going to add them in. Because if this, if today's apple, this nothing is a little baffling about the home category for me. If today's apple is anything, IT is a company that is designed to maximize the extraction of money from people in its ecosystem.

right? You get an iphone, but then you get an ipad because it's like an iphone and you get a mac because if you're going na get a computer, why not have to work with your iphone really, really well and then you're looking at a streamer boxes like, yeah well, i'm already an apple ecosystem and apple TV a little Pricey, but it's nicer than the others and and doesn't be ads that are our names and I OK I buy that to and like every and then i'm going to subscribe to apple TV maybe the apple one bundle and you just that is what apple and tim cooks. Apple in particular is great.

Ad is just building up this entire shell of apple ecosystem and everything inside IT. And you can go outside IT. But there are reasons you might want to stay inside IT, at least for many of the products.

And i'm not saying this from a perspective of IT being like uh, against a competition or anything. I'm just saying like it's a good way like you love our products, buy more of them is a brand relationship. IT doesn't have to be senter and a lot of us feel this where it's like, yeah wouldn't like when we talk about wifi, IT was like, well, got I got the ero.

People have have the neck gear stuff. People have the ubiquity stuff. But like there's a lot of nostalgic for like airport where was like, uh, remember when an apple just sold you al a wifi thing and you could forget about IT and like we can talk about whether that kind of a mystific rosy glow and that there weren't problems with the airport based stations anyway.

But like they abandon in that category. And and partly, we look back around like a wouldn't be simpler to just buy the apple thing. So that's the thing that's perplexing about the last five years is that apple didn't identify this is a place where they could sell a whole bunch of stuff to a whole bunch of people in the ecosystem and make even more revenue entity even further into your iphone in your mac and everything else because IT does sound very much like them.

So maybe the answer is that leadership changes. Their eyes were on other products and now the people in charge at apple of the homeless stuff are are have been charged to make that happen because you said, you know, it's about a baLance sheet a little bit. I think IT is I think maybe though in modern apple, that's what IT took is for them to see whereabouts and accessories cooling.

And well, what do we do to warm IT up? And somebody said, well, we have completely abandoned home accessories and there are some high profile, high margin products that we could do in that category that would make us really successful. And so we should do those.

And then somebody, tim cooks said, yeah, okay, let's put some effort into that. That's my best guess is that that's what they are doing here. Now the TV and my theory about the TV, by the way, because I don't understand that, I don't know why you do that.

I don't know why. I just for everything i've just said, like buying a TV IT just doesn't seem to be a good match of the competition is not very high margin. Um it's not a place where apple can add a whole lot because you could just buy a very nice new TV and put an apple T V box on IT.

Apple T V runs inside of most of these devices. My only guess about the T V is that they might be considering building their next line of displays with apple TV brains in them because that's what samsung does when I reveal that samsung equivalent of the studio display. It's a smart T V.

It's not just to twenty seven monitor. It's a smart T V. I.

So maybe their argument is we're going to make some monitors and they're going going to be tvs and you can use them as either or both. And that's okay. Like I I think that's fine.

I think it's kind of dumb that apple displays can't do anything when the computers not attached to them. Maybe that would be a thing that they could do. But IT doesn't feel as much of them.

IT doesn't make as much sense to me as these other reports were. I think, okay, like they shall have done this five years ago or ten years ago. But the next best time is now, right? So do IT now.

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So everything, you finally got your new kindles. I think you got the new kindle color soft and the new kindle paper White. correct?

I I they don't send to me, so I had to buy.

Thank you for your um I going .

to return them.

Oh okay, every go we're going to a very little them this year. enough. You not happy with the new twenty twenty four kindle line up?

No, I mean, okay, it's complicated. So the pair White, the new paper White, you know the for for years, the paperwork has been the best e reader for most people just because it's a good Price and it's a good piece of hardware. And I think that's still true even though I prefer like kobo is doing, especially on the software side.

Um I think that my generic recommendation of people are looking for a new reader is get the paper White and they have three versions of IT. There's like a base model weather without ads and then there's like the signature edition that's got like a light sensor. So we will auto adjust the brightness based on where you are, which I think is a nice feature.

And IT doesn't have ads in that at all um but that that's two hundred dollars. If you want to spend one sixty, you can get a slightly a less nice version that shows you ads, but it's still a good product. It's fine.

I don't love IT, but it's fine. And of course, I prefer readers with buttons to turn to turn the page. And at candle, a zona doesn't believe in, IT doesn't believe in that is a concept they're really too lag.

You can write on IT with a styles and you can make mark. And we got a colour version now, but um buttons are too far. We can do that.

And so that's um that's a little frustrating for me, but I don't have a lot to say about the paper way. It's fine OK. I wish I had a cobo I could recommend instead but cobo stopped building their black and White equivalent to the paper White.

They they have a lower in model, but the one with buttons are they replaced with a color model and aren't selling the black White model anymore. And the the color model doesn't have a good a text clarity as the black and White one. There's an added kind of texture on the background of the color screen um that is not there on the black and White screen. And so if all you're primarily doing is reading text, like I am not opposed to color on readers. I am opposed to color on e readers, making reading text on e readers worse because that's the number one thing by a very wide margin that I want any reader to be good .

at is the text point. Do you think that that button on e readers is like small iphone? Well, like there are people that really want them and really want them a lot and say IT is important, but you've got to assume that the e rated companies know that people are are using the screen of the bonds, right? I was that would keep the buttons.

Kobo has kept the buttons. I think amazon has just decided that none enough people care about buttons for you to make IT difference because they had a high end read of their head buttons because they decided that what buttons are high end features. It's like, there are buttons, what are you doing? Uh, so yeah I I am at the point now where as a critic of technology, i'm going to say button only readers are good. You should give people choices.

You don't have to put button on every e reader, but button make an e reader nicer for reasons i've talked about a million times but basically I I can hold in my hand and rest my finger on the button while I hold the e reader and then every time I turn the page I just squaze the e reader or as with a touch screen you got a you got a change grip um and it's not as comfortable for me to hold and i've gotta use little finger kickstand kind of thing and then I got to move my finger over and then happen and move IT back. And for me, organic iced, it's just superior to have a button there. Obviously, most people don't care.

I need, I need to be. I need to criticize IT because I think it's a bad decision while also accepting the fact that most people don't care, which is why I recommend that people the paper wide filling for original gy reader and not which has no button and not like the cobo color because it's got buttons but it's more expensive and IT doesn't look as good and just don't just don't bother. So um or or there's a high in cuba that's also nice, but again, it's expensive and you don't need IT in the paper is fine even though I don't like IT because IT doesn't have buttons.

Most people do not care. The color thing though kills me. And this is my so look, my post on six colonies about this is as much an essay about how I feeling about the current state of e readers as IT is a review of these two products.

Because IT feels to me like there was a time, this heady time, when I was like about the future of books is e readers. That's what this could be, e books and e readers. And what we found is, uh, maybe the future books is the past of books, its books like on paper, and then there are also e readers, but like they haven't destroyed the printing of books. A lot of people prefer to just read paper books. I don't, but a lot of people do and and that's fine.

But as a result, amazon in in rockton, who makes cobo and other companies that, that are trying to make your readers are trying to pick up other technology that's floating around and stick IT any readers and see if this is like a how about this? Will this work? And so like we'll have stylus now where you can do note taking well on a six or seven inch e reader.

Note taking is stupid. I just, I just I think it's a waste. Like why is that even there on a big one like the kindle scribe where you could like have a big PDF and you market IT up IT makes more sense to me.

I mean, also one ipad would do that. But sure. okay. I can see IT, but they try they're trying to show, warn IT and everywhere because they're just like, will this move the middle if we add this feature in um and then the color is one where e inc, the company that makes these displays has done an amazing job of building a color screen IT really is remarkable.

And the refresh rats are pretty fast as a piece of a technology. I can't believe we ve got to the point where the eating stuff looks this good. But like I said, IT actually makes the text worse.

And ultimately, yes, it's impressive. You put color in your e reader, but why? And I don't want to come across this imaginary here.

I want to come across as being the person who are saying, what is the use benefit? Because just shoving new technology in a product and selling IT to people as new is not good enough. You need to provide reasons why and their reasons for color like but color and it's not enough like.

So what is IT well, but book covers when you turn IT off that book cover, if you're not, you know I guess the amazon one doesn't come with ads at the color levels so that's fine when you turn that off um the book covers in color well yeah but the the backlist goes off so you can really see the colors. It's too dim. okay.

Well when you're shopping for books are looking at your library, you'll see little tiny thn nails that are in color. okay. I guess honestly, I turn that feature off and I just haven't be a list anyway.

But all right, it's not really cared of the experience. It's a nice to have. It's a little bit nicer. Oh, but you you highlight in a bunch of different colors. okay.

I guess if you're somebody use a compulsive book, i'll other who needs different colors in order to have IT mean different things. I guess it's a nice to have feature, but its seems like a pretty mesh feature like IT buttons are ordinary h feature. What is that? but? And so then it's comics OK about comics.

Most comics are in color. You want to read comics in color. And I know I said on this player ast, that the real test of the inder kindle color soft was going to be.

Do they do something like comic algy guide of you and go panel by panel? And they do. It's called panel view. You double out right on a comic, and you can read a panel by panel.

Now I would argue that panel by panel is not a great experience for reading a comic, but it's Better than nothing. I mean, IT was invented for phones because people are their phones and they want to read comics. Um you would be Better off using an ipad, but you could do IT.

I read a few comics on the kindle color soft panel by panel. It's fine, although even there, you know, I did read, watch men, which is mostly square over gold panels, but like lots of comics do vertical panels. And over the start, comics that a lot of horizons onal panels.

And mike, you know what? The kindle doesn't have just have an accelerometer and auto rotate. So like you get a wide panel, you can just turn me on the side and see a wide on the spree.

Basic, just like turning a book where nothing happens.

right? Nothing happens. I mean, you can manually go to settings and change IT rotate but then you go to the next panel and it's vertical and you like, okay ah and it's all shrunk down and you can't read IT.

So like it's missing a bunch of things is IT doable? sure. It's okay. There are Better ways to read comics than on a kindle one panel at the time, and it's too smaller screen to read that the whole page at once. It's just too small. So in the end, I can be impressed by the eating screen and glad that they built the panel of you in and still say, I feel like these color e readers are trying to sell people on something that doesn't actually add anything, which would be fine if IT didn't take something away.

But even on the kindle color soft, which has apparently they did like extra tricks to the lighting and stuff because I think amazon was not impressed by that eating panel that uh cobo just slapped into their in the uh labor color and we're done called that the day. And as a result, the kindle lighting is Better and IT looks Better than the cobo color. But its still you know it's still not as good as as a reader as text on the page.

And I fundamentally you buy this thing for text on the page if you don't if you're buying IT for pens and color and stuff, great. But I would think most people buying in the e reader really just want to read books and color. again.

Color is a great idea, but I can't make the reading experience worse. And plus, IT makes IT more expensive. So for me, calories readers are a mistake for now, and nobody should buy them and you should just buy a reasonable black and White e reader.

And I wish kobo still made their reasonable black and White e reader, but they stopped um it's still on their site and I just as sold out. So that makes me wonder if ultimately they might do a version three or bring the version to back into of the libra back into production. But um you know for now, updated my what e reader should I buy a story to say? It's the paper White, the latest paper White.

It's it's good. Don't buy the cheap kindle because doesn't have a flat screen and its not waterproof. And I think that's done.

I think I think I think you should be able to reach ery book or at the pool or or in the bathtub and not worry about your your uh your book being destroyed and short IT out and whatever I like. Forget IT. Waterproof, I think, is A A much more useful feature than color at this point. So IT was IT was a journey.

And the answer to the the over ging question about how I feel about this is sort of desperation, because I feel like the stuff that, the stuff that I care about for e readers, including not just niche things like buttons, but also things like text on the page and clarity is like going, by the way, side a little bit as they try to find other features that will goose sales of this category. And I accept that this is a weird category. It's not as big as there.

Anybody hoped you're building these things in an era where you might be Better off building a smart phone or a tablet or computer, whatever, but instead that you ve got these e readers. But like, I would love to see some innovation in e readers. There's probably a story in this, although i've written about IT before.

Like, I would love to see innovation where I can do something like, uh, like do R S S needs or you know I I like more content on them. That text might be interesting. There are ways you can get content on these things, but it's not very good um or innovation in like amazon okay, you don't like you wanna put in a button, I get IT.

How about you put in excel ameer so that none only can your e reader order rotate, especially when you trying to read a comic. But if you put in an excEllent roommates in, you could probably do something like, let me double tap the back of IT to change the page. Then I don't need a button.

I get just double tap on the back and the accelerometer go, oh, I got tapped and advanced the page. I love IT. Let's do IT. But instead I feel like they're going to pass.

And this is the story of a lot of technology over the last thirty years, which is sometimes the suppliers come out with a new product. E ink is perfectly reasonable to say, oh, man, color, yeah, check IT out. Look what we did.

IT is very impressive that they have made made coLoring despite, but it's in combat on the on the company is building the product. And this is what apple has always been good at to say, what's the use case? Why does somebody want this? And in all my days, in the early part of my career, when we recovering back verses PC, especially the P.

C makers would put whatever was new in their product and then try to figure out away the salad. And a lot of times that made no sense. An apple would be like me.

No, we're not going to do that until we, until we can find a way to make this story make sense. We're not going to put IT in our product. And a bunch of that like the color eating color e readers feels so much like that, which is, well, they gave us a color screen.

So I guess we'll make a color e reader with IT. So like that's fine, but why like who wants IT? Who wants IT other than but it's in color is like, yeah but why? So I don't know.

I wish I wish more people like this category. I wish the products and IT were Better. I wish kobo made up Better version of the black White libra. Um I expect that in the next few years, this will get resolved because the color screens from ank will get Better and they won't degrade the reading experience.

But for now and also people don't buy you know, you buy a kindle every eight years or ten years or something, really, you could just go on forever. So it's like if you need one, you know they're good, they're bright, their waterproof. The paperwork is like it's there.

A one of the sad footnotes of this is that as a part of this review, I spend some time reading on the kindle oasis, which was amazon's now just discontinued. Hi, andy reader, that has buttons on IT. That's the best.

That's the best. E reader. I know it's great.

The only problem is got a micro U S B port on on of U S B C. But it's great. It's black and White.

It's got buttons. It's got a really bright um sidelight um display and a clear display, three hundred dpi display. It's a great e reader but they don't make him anymore.

My two favorite readers, they don't make him anymore because they are off gardening around with color displays. And anyway, so i'm trying not to be grumpy about IT. I'm trying to understand why they're doing IT.

I think that there they're trying to find more markets for this product category. And I get IT. It's not a big category, but what they're trying right now for me, I think, goes against the whole purpose of the category.

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So you use that linux to support in the show, that is, notion dot calm flash upgrade all over the case, of course, thanks to notion for the support of the show and rely. So there's been some I got we got a bunch of updates about vision pro stuff we the last couple of weeks. So this week, there was uh, another piece of most of content. This was a music video from the weekend. Um I think would love hearts is the open hearts man, I was in the same area, but completely wrongs would open heart, right?

I love that apple calls that a immersive music experience. It's a music .

video music. It's music deo, and he feels like a music .

video is is a music video is a classic, I would say, classic style music video like me grow A M T V. It's IT had IT gave me kind of like thrilla vibes at times where I was like, oh yeah, where we spent a lot of money on a music video. That's what that is.

I think what this shows, I think more than anything, is that special effects, good special effects can have quite an impact to be very impact full in a music video. So they are like a couple of moments where they really play around with your perspective and something that and is very interesting.

I had the exact same reaction that you did, which is everything apple shown us up to now in immersive, has at least seemed real. I know that that submerged movie has the apex in IT, right to her in told this, but it's meant to be naturalistic. This is a surreal experience like you're flying and going through like portal les and like it's not you see a bunch of stuff that can't be real, right? So you know you're watching special effects.

They look great. They really do. I'm very impressed with them, but what he does is IT says very clearly, this is what an immersive A V F X show can look like. And I I like seeing that. And there there are few moments where I need to watch IT again, because one of the things I really like about IT is a lot of immersive stuff. You know, the the when we were talking about the what if animation, one of the fun things about the what if stuff is, if you notice, if you looked at a little sides, you can see like there's little easter eggs here here and there are some of that in this where like if you look out the window yeah at these points yeah like yeah out up front is one thing and out the window is a pledge other thing and that's a really interesting right like they're are they're playing up the fact that you are in this very weird scenario and it's surreal and i'd like that a lot. I thought that was yeah I definitely felt to me like, uh, you know, this is it's not a movie, you know, it's not even much of a .

narrative and I have no idea what's going on this video, have no idea what .

the point of IT is. He's in he's in an ambuLance but also like a uh a flying machine and and then hate, I guess, spoiler alert for a thing that doesn't need spoiler because IT doesn't make any sense. But I guess he dies at the end or doesn't I don't know that does well, there's over the end credits that there is like a flat line sound like he died in the ambuLance or something anyway, doesn't matter.

It's ridiculous, but it's visually very interesting. And I like, I mean, the song is fun. The weekend is a charismatic form.

a good pic for this. He is very creative, right? As like as that that so like, I think that if if in the weekends music is, I like his music and so like, you can sit and like, this is a song I never had before and like, i'm going to enjoy IT because I know I like his style of music and is like, time to watch and he is he is like, you know, love my hate him.

He's like one of these artist kind of performers and so I think, you know IT makes sense to throw something like a project like this at him and he will he will go all in on that. And so yeah, this is interesting. Like I would say to me though, I want more stuff like emerge and I want this right like I don't want a bunch of music video, right? I don't want more ing narratives. But this was to me just an interesting idea of like, oh, he is a completely different style of content and he also really works. So yeah .

experiment um let them try things that may not have been tried yet in immersive because IT doesn't matter because it's a music video and they are just throwing visuals at the wall and I think that's fine. Um when you start my music, I know they've got that concert that's coming up. Yep, and that is more in the context of what I would like to see.

I want to see some life concert performances and I suppose the moralistic key style performances as well, like i'm really interested to see about on the music side of what of the different options here. And I know that they've got this concept for one series that they're starting. And I T, that concert, for one, makes IT sound very alesia. I think this .

is focused on the elliot is thing. So the first one is IT, your musician called right and this is coming soon, however, uh, so I asked, uh, contact in apple, but is this a series is just a one off and they confirmed to me that the series, and also that you can actually go and watch this in U. K.

Apple stores now, even though it's not available here because he is right um and with this new series concept for one, there will also be an accompanying special audio E P on apple music. This reminds me of like, uh, they did this in the past. IT wasn't cool like made for, but they used to bring up and and create E, P, S, right? Like doing N, E, C P.

IT maybe feels a little bit like that. And so yeah, I think that this one is going to be very much in the vein of delicacy thing. I don't know.

I don't say I that maybe if everyone I know, I reacted very negatively to the illusion key portion of the immersive video stuff. I found IT really awkward to have someone singing at me. Yes, I I wonder what this is gonna be like. I would like to see concert like performances, but I don't want to be making eye contact.

I will the musician but I know I I know we should say um apple is apparently also letting people like if you're a fan of the weekend or you want to see this thing and this is a smart way to market this. You can go into an apple store apparently and say, I would like to watch the weekend music video on the vision pro and and you can do that. They'll let you do that. So they're using content to drive people to try vision pro. I think that's very smart.

That makes sense because um otherwise is not really lot of point signing up these big names, right? Because essentially you want the weekend to be promoting this, but there is no point in the weekend promoting this. If if only then the people that can watch IT, a people that already on the vision .

bro and IT gets him in the apple store and and there's a long game aspect of IT, but they get to try IT and maybe rave about. So IT was amazing and it's all good. It's all to the Better for apple.

I think also they announced, along with the the weekend thing in the comfort one that they have new episodes in two, their serious a venture and wildlife in twenty twenty four. There's more stuff come in five. I know that this has been A A point maybe made often too often at this point, but the the thing about the slow roll out this content is, I think is putting too much pressure on each piece of visual content.

Like if if you know if I wait a month and like i'm not in, I haven't particularly been taken by the wildlife series, right, like they have been doing. I've watch some of IT, but I haven't really it's just not necessarily the stuff that I want. I don't know why I just have but then it's like, oh, there's a wildlife episode this way is like, well, if there was lots of stuff then I can kind of pick a choose where at the moment I can feel like forcing myself to watch them at this content because it's like the only stuff available.

It's like, okay, you got to watch the right now.

yes. So I don't really want to I like natural to I why they just maybe I got a different ago, uh, but like those things, they haven't really got me up like the adventure stuff more yeah but I just what my point there is, is IT just puts a lot of pressure on this, the content I know because .

there's not that much of IT. And so you yeah, I get that I ve really like the wireless stuff, that somebody who has never been africa to see africa and see rino s or elephants like kind of amazing and feels you know more immersive as a travel log. And so I kind like that about that. But you're right, all of this stuff has way more pressure put on IT um because if there's a slow drip of of content but I will say this at least there's a trip of content now IT feels like they are now getting this stuff out there at all at a pace that where they weren't the first six months that the vision crew was out.

Um you know what I realized now i'm not talking about the the wildlife, i'm talking about the dinosaurs.

No, I don't .

like dining for motion sick. So I should go watch the world life stuff. I don't think of wash the elephants.

They are amazing. And I did like the so .

when you kind of like moving, like overhead and you made me for motion sick, and i've never felt motion sick from the before and and those .

are my least the dinosaur s are my least favorite of all the ones that you've done.

I'm gona watch some the wordless stuff and just some time general stuff, but I thought that was fun as that you'd like. And I need some screen shots today. Uh, B, B, baby c, british bb c channel .

or on the channel .

four who are the proprieties of toast master? I guess i'll say they're like the home of toast master in the U.

K. They are the the U. K. Home of task baster as.

yeah uh.

they have one of my favorite T V shows.

Yes, exactly. They have made a vision pro APP channel four and with IT a task master environment in which you can watch shows, which is like a fun thing. But they have, I think, commit at a cardinal sign of environments. So when you're in the environment, you were sitting in the chair of the host T. V show, greg.

right? But the way that .

i've set IT up, if you sitting in his chair, you are not dead center with the screen. Showing content to you want.

So to watch the content, your kind of off center a, which is that not great? So I really create environment, but it's not one you should be watching content in, which is not the way that say, did y i've done IT where they're fun, but they're also really good experiences for watching content plus the screen is too far away from you. It's a fun thing but not not a great not a great use of this .

technical here's chartly what they did there is a task master V R game for um for request yeah and my guess is that they that the environment is a render of the space from the VR game okay.

that's my guess is also not very high quality compared to .

some of the seen yeah and IT is yeah it's like it's like A C D game a little bit really good. There's not a lot .

of like this try, but none of IT is like great. But yet look, it's a fun thing to do and it's also a fun thing to get some headlines, which he is part the reason, sure, because they want people to know they .

go this thing yeah and they they went to the trouble of doing a vision pro APP and a apple did the a solid by saying, you know, can we make a little work with you to make an environment now, like, we've got this V R thing. And so they made the tasmania partment. 嗯。

A U received two vision pro accessory from belkin and dust travelled bag in a new head strap.

I did. I did new vision pro accessories that feel very much like that. The vision pro accessories apple should have shipped with when they shipped division pro, but they didn't.

So the head strap works with the the net band, right? The one that goes the solo band. And I was using solar top, where there was a second beyend on top.

But this is a it's take her than the basic strap um and it's got a vulcar attach and basically you take the two plastic pieces and put them on ah the the band that's coming back from the vision pro that's got the speakers on IT and then you put and then this band runs over your head and you can adjust IT with the will co and then you still use the net back nit band. This is the set up that we had when we got our first preview of this in june of last year. And yet apple didn't ship that.

They ship the two thin bans or the net ban by itself. And it's it's way Better. This is how I should have been shipped. I don't know.

I mean, I guess the reason apple didn't about this product themselves as because that they would have to admit that it's it's the right configuration and instead, everybody is going to have to pay fifty dollars if they want this configuration. But I can endorse I think it's really comfortable. I think they did a really good job. There are some other products that do similar things.

but it's it's solid. It's solid. I have a speaker, one which is nice, but I can't get IT to go as tight as I would won. And this one looks like IT is basically infinitely adjustable. So I have voted yeah another strap for the vision problem I made strap like four at this point.

I know I know same, but it's a good one. I think they did a good job with IT and it's very clear this is you know, this is apple going to a partner. In fact, mark girl man wrote a thing this week about IT where he basically said, look, apple can do this, but they went to their partners and please do this. I don't know what people say.

Why can't apple do this? Apple can do this.

I think they maybe it's IT would be a little embarrassing. I I mean, I agree.

I think who traps like in the thing like that, they can have a third of between the two they could do if they want .

more than that. My theory is that they will if they do a revised division pro next year, that IT would be what you have yeah I think because we know .

that they they thought I was a good idea, because this is what we used in the original demos and some of the original shells, a version. I mean, IT wasn't this exact one.

but IT looked like this. Not again, I don't know behind the scenes, but so much of the vision pro detail does seem to be driven by designers who have this fantasy of how people use technology yeah and the the kitt strap, which is very beautiful, obviously are expensive to make and super .

comfortable and easy to adjust .

and that so so here's the thing is my theory is that they're like, okay, we want to put this with with the strap on top. And the designers like, oh, no, that will ruin the entire experience of IT. Like, okay, fine, but IT would be Better.

IT would actually be nicer if you had that strap up there. And so they ship IT with two straps, the nice one that doesn't fit and the ones that aren't as nice. Yes, come on.

Like it's battling. Anyway, IT is fifty dollars for a couple pieces of plastic. And the strap, yeah, I know, I know. I'm just resigned to the fact that every vision pro accessory is gonna expensive. And how many how many could they even ever possibly sell?

And is the thing right? Like every the volume must be so low that every single vision proactive sory has to be a high margin. Good like I has because they are never .

going to make any money on IT. Exactly, exactly. But there's also A A Carrying case for the vision pro, and it's really good. It's so good. So i've been using the twenty dollar basically meet a quest case, the case this suggested and and it's mean it's just bad.

IT did the job of being a container for the vision pro but like it's just this one layer of of material and is not very good. This beken bag is so good, it's like half the Price of apples marchello um and it's also a smaller it's made to fit the vision pro. So IT fits IT perfectly.

It's got a little thing you flip up after you put IT in there to cover the eye part the lenses so that they don't get mess up. It's got a little battery spot that you put the battery in and flip up down. So IT stays attached.

And if you fp if you put the battery the right way in um the U S B charge port on the battery is accessible so you can zip the case mostly up. You can have IT all in there and still plug IT in and charge IT up when you're not using IT and then unplug IT. And it's it's so much smaller than the apple case, it's a perfect fit.

It's got uh optional shoulder strap and a and a um regular Carrying handle and it's got a zipper pocket in the front for some probably pretty thin things that you could put in there and a non sip pocket in the back we can put up. It's just a nice little case. They did a good job um again, like a hundred box or something, it's not cheap.

But I look at IT and I think why did apple not make this? And my only answer is because the same designers who thought that the the kitt strapped by itself was the most elegant and that you couldn't mud IT up with that strap that goes over the top with the veco who does well, kw, anyway, also design this case. Then I go, but it's so big and puppy, and it's so beautiful.

And clearly, those people were in the design driver seat for initial vision. And the number one thing that i'm looking forward to in another vision pro iteration is maybe all of that stuff starting to get cleared away. IT might take multiple years for that.

But again, this is such a practical case for the vision pro, and the apple case is so in practical. So anyway, I I think both of these accessory are great. I don't know how many people going to buy him because you're got to have a vision pro and you've got to have the stomach s to spend the money.

But I will tell you, I think they're really good thoms up to belkin I guess thoms s up to whoever at apple whispers to belkin about this. But yeah, they're good. It's a much Better scenario all along. And i'm looking forward traveling with the with that strap and with that bag.

I had already orde the strap and that's not coming into the end of november for me. I don't know why it's pretty back ordered um but the bag I hadn't ordered and I just that will be here on wednesday. So this might mean I might actually take my vision for next vacation, which is coming up in a couple of weeks. I might take you with me might be the guy on the plane, Jason.

I might do IT. Oh yeah, I am. I'm well, i'm excited about IT, not just for all of this, which i'm absolutely going to travel with this thing to i'm looking forward to IT.

But the other reason is the thing that we're going to talk about now, which is also with the point two latest beta on macos and visionary s guess what you get you get wide and ultrawise views of mac screen sharing. This is the big this is in some ways the feature that everybody thought would be the big feature. But IT was like promise later and now we've reached kind of promise time and um it's a light it's it's it's a lot of yeah we we last week we touch him because .

you tried to and I haven't tried IT and today I installed in a debate my mac. This is a spoil of cortex we talk about on cortex and great like you just says me, you have to do this so I do IT uh it's it's incredible is the ultra wide is indeed very ultra wide IT is hilary? It's massive. Imagine that you're just surrounded .

by i'm surprised IT doesn't go further back and it's just like a three get a swift chair and just zipper around IT .

is so wide IT it's genuinely to the point where any window management that I do mac is rented pointless like yeah the windows are so far away each other for me for actually for using IT, I would use the wide rather than the ultra wide. But if I ever needed the ultra wide, I have IT.

And yeah like at this point, like if I am going on a trip where I am going to be working in a hotel, this has made division pro absolutely in dispensable insensible for because I can actually really, truly have an improvement on my working rather than just like, hey, look, I can make my mac screen bigger, which is how IT was before, right? Whatever your laptop pause, you could essentially project IT, and IT would make that bigger. But IT was still the resolution and size roughly of your screen you reusing. Right now you can take that but you can also make IT bigger and even bigger and I think I have bent tomson said on shop tech that ultra wide is the same resolution betwen two studio displays next with other um which is massive. But you can also make IT massive well.

and I think I want to mentioned this last week, but one of the things that I like to do in the vision pro is in terms of window management is putting things off to the side. That's one of the great things about the spatial experience things around you. Yes, I I can take A A music player like albums or something, and I put IT off way off to the right or or or a clock, and I put a way up or off to the right or off the left.

And it's running and it's playing music, but it's out of sight and out of mind. I like that. And then if I need to adjust IT or look at IT, I can either look over and grabbed and bring IT forward, or I can just look over and interact with that. Men, go back to my task, nice.

Well, with the wide and the ultrawise, you can do that on the mac, which if you are intensely on the mac right now and you want the mac stuff to be in your world, taking a window from the mac that you might need to consult with, but is not part of your general focus, you put IT all the way over on the right or on the left and leave IT there. And now it's doing the same thing as those visionary s apps that I did, which is I don't need to see IT. I just need to look at IT when I need IT. And then I turned and I look at IT there, and I interact with IT, and then I go back. I also was playing around with them really wide windows, which in something like logic or a final cut, especially really interesting to just say, what if this window was extremely wide?

I want to see the entire podcast that was, well, well, with logic.

you've got a lot of stuff. With logic final cut especially, you got a lot of stuff on the sides. You've got like your bins and your effects and all that stuff that's on the sides.

And so IT kind of works where if you've got the timeline in the video kind of right in front of you and then you kind of turn to the really wide areas to grab something or click something, I can see that being a pretty good experience. I know some people look at the screen sharing stuff and didn't pro, and they say it's just not clear enough. It's just not good enough.

I guess eyes will vary. I would say be very i'm going to say I think IT works pretty well. I like it's not perfect, but I think IT works really well.

It's definitely Better than me trying to window manage from my thirteen laptop.

exactly. But as somebody else might say, IT doesn't look clear to me and i'd rather window manage on my thirteen and laptop other other host of other podcast. You can say that that's a sub tweet and they will.

This is what i'm saying is i'm not going to say the person who says that is wrong. I'm going to say that, that is not my experience and that therefore, I don't think that IT is fundamentally true, that everybody who uses this feature will find a clear or find a blurry. I think it's going to depend and you're going to have to try IT and see if that works for you or not.

And if you're thinking of buying a vision pro for something like this, go to the apple store well and you can return IT if IT doesn't work. But I go to the apple store and try IT out there because I think IT works really well. I think it's I think IT is a very impressive bit of technology.

And um and so i'm just I I I am not sure I would go as far as mark germen who says this is IT this is the killer APP. But it's pretty good like this is a really, really good feature that, that is good in an area that vision pro struggle with, which is actual productivity. That IT can be a big mac monitor, which was always the promise now they've delivered at IT, and I think they did a really good job.

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Well, finish out today is episode to some ask upgrade questions as questions this way comes from Jacob s, who says, thanks to you talking about home bridge, Jason, i've realized I can finally control all my smart devices from the home map and start using shortcuts to control and automate them. This means I need to get a home hub to our recommendation between a home pod mini and an apple T. V.

Okay, mike, let me have IT.

I think apple TV is is the answer here yeah um I think you could use a lot of many in. Fine， you can also use an ipad to do this, but I don't recommend an ipad because then you needed to think about the battery, right with with both the apple T, V and the hometown d mini. You're not thinking about the battery, and that's great.

I just think for a while, both of these devices bring other things to your home. And I think the apple TV is a big a benefit to your home entertainment experience in our home. But many is about is great.

But really, you're going to get one in a bunch, get one of them. And I think, uh oh, apparently having told that the ipad isn't a home home anymore today you go, you need a home pop. Many in apple TV that used to be ipad used to be, but I must change that.

Thank you, a live chat for them. But still, I think the apple TV is Better like I think you'll get a nice experience. I think the apple TV is a really good home entertainment device is where I watch basically all of my TV. The remote is really good.

The ABS all there right like this is this is unbelievably one device where apple did get everybody to make an APP for IT, and they don't all integrate in the way that apple would like, you know, like netflix and youtube on in the TV APP, for example. But you can still get really good netflix experiences, really good youtube experiences as well as just a good way to watch all your content. And it's all available that. So I recommend an apple T V.

I like apple T V. I think that is a premium experience. Look, if you don't have A T, V, if you have no use for a streamer box, then get a home pod. Many, I guess maybe you can use that for something, but I think the apple TV is a nice thing to have. So yeah, I am.

David asks, can the new mac mini E P powered via the U. S. B and off on the airports? No, so sure I know isn't IT like IT would have been nice.

IT would have been nice. I think I can see, I can see the appeal um of having a bus power thing so that you could potentially like take IT from one room to another, let's say, and just plug IT in with one cable and IT would provide power and data. The problem is unlike a laptop where you can bus power IT IT does not have a battery.

So there's all sorts of and I don't know what how much power IT draws at the at the high end, but like IT would require a whole lot more circuitry to to include a battery and the ability charged. And I think that, that would be really dangerous if all I did was to us power because if there's any power lag, at any point, you're gone to lose the device. And I think there was too much engineering for a non lap.

Is that USB powerful, unreliable than mains power in that way like that?

Like I don't know O I don't know all the details. I am not molest ical engineer. It's just my good feeling that you don't have the back up of a battery and the you a laptops electrical system is very different from a desktop electrical system because IT doesn't have that protection as well as requiring the ability to charge and things like that.

I mean, I would be nice, but my guess is that there are some reasons involving complexity and stability that would not be ideal. Now David, of in our chat as well. So many pcs can happen.

It's great option. I I think my answer would be apple looked at them and said it's not worth IT like it's not worth IT. And and I think there are probably some very specific things that they made the decision to not bother with.

Um I love the idea of a bus powered mac mini. Just literally it's one cable instead of two because if I were to get a mac money and take IT back and forth between my two desks, I would need to plug in two things, right, power and thunderbird. That sounds nice, but again, I can also see why apple would say this is not a priority .

for for I think I think .

would give us power.

I give some just like this one cable and you've got absolutely everything because your daily training at all of a dog.

let's put in on to do list and apple can get there. Some get that we give more space on the back. If they didn't have .

power plug exactly, they could pull. I don't know something else there. What the people want was support.

The people want S D cod or something for some reason more more undergoes, uh, hackton asks, i'm pondering the purchase of an apple watch series ten, but what would be the real world changes in my day today of going with the salary option? Is IT worth the additional money? Now I know you use your a lot. Do you find IT be worth IT? yes.

okay. Why I still do IT. So the reason, in my opinion, that you do the cellular rapper watch is because you go places without your phone. That's yet. If you don't go if you never go play without your phone and you're just using your watch with your phone, you don't need to worry about IT. Um if you I I I think that's the use case.

If you wanted do what I do, which is leave my phone at home and go walk the dog or go for a run with just airports at my apple watch. You need sillar not that you can't listen to things with just a wifi I watch, but if you fall, get, if hit by a car, whatever IT is, IT can call for help if you don't have a client model, if if your phone isn't there. So I think that's IT.

I think that the number one use case for cellar model of apple watches, you go places without your iphone or you'd like to like, I don't miss. I was run. I was walking the dog the other day, and a woman ran past me and she's got an iphone strapped to her ARM and I thought, like, I don't like, I don't like the iphone in my pocket when i'm when i'm running or even walking the dog. I don't like IT. I really like not having a big iphone and they keep in bigger in my pocket when i'm running or when i'm even walking the dog and it's just kind of moving around in there and pulling down my pants and like I I just don't like IT.

So so for me, it's totally worth IT because I am free and if I fall and hurt myself IT can call for help like you that one time like I did when I Bruce my ribs, absolutely I mean I just called Lauren and said I fell and prose my rib and i'm going to go to the er but I was able to do that because of the soil your model so for me that's IT is do you want to be phone free at points? And if so, I think it's totally worth IT and it's great. If you don't, then save save your money, save your money on the sell your model and save your money on your monthly .

bill and Peter rtca says, I just got a base mac money to use as a home server has can be a great time with some RAID external exposure enclosure and I um intending to use IT for a backup and media server. But I wonder if you guys had any suggestions or ideas to do more with this mac .

my mac many have writing about IT. A lot has changed over the years. I've done all sorts of stuff on that.

But i've had a server from like fifteen years, if not more twenty years long time uh today I mean I am some of the stuff that the Peter mentions i'm doing I I is my black server. It's my channels server which is a great APP that record stuff and let you play back. Um it's running a bunch of python scripts.

It's running my weather station software, it's it's a web server so it's got um it's got where pages that serve off of IT um my entire drobot downloads to that, my entire photos library downloads to that, all obviously onto the external RAID that I have attached. I use IT for screen sharing when i'm away from my network and I need a mac, I was in hawaii and just had my ipad and I need to do something that required a mac and I was able to just connect to IT and do IT on the mac. All the stuff on the RAID gets backed up by a backstays on that.

You on that system s so all that stuff gets backed up an extra time. Um i'm using IT as my time machine surfer from my network. So my mac here gets backup to that mac mini every day. I said good years .

because like I don't have time machine on my my back care. I've never set IT up. I use back blaze and in our deal with that but because I don't have like a machine that I would set up the like the over the air time machine too, but that would be a really good use for something like that.

Yeah, I I want to .

borrow a mac money to do all this stuff. We've never did IT, because I don't know that these are all really good things. There are so many of these things that I I just don't they don't really IT doesn't really appeal to me like tinkering endings of IT. But having an always on computer like this there there is a lot of benefit to, I say. And also, you know, this machine will be always on because as we know, you can't get to the power button so you could leave .

IT on as jack or vented earlier. Home bridge is also running on IT. So i've got much on home kit stuff that that runs that appears in my home at because i'm running home bridge on IT.

That's just a thing that to do IT. It's like I know the um there are a lot of different options, especially for home storage. One of the reasons that I choose a mac and have always chosen a mac is i'm really comfortable with mac software.

And also the mac will run unique stuff on top of that, right that which gives you compatibility with lots of stuff um that's out there. And i've always been more comfortable with that than the idea of having like a nas box. That is running some flavor of unix.

Or at one point, there was one that I had that was running windows. Like, I really like having a mac, and I can set up up the way I want IT, and I can hang huge amount storage job of one two. I have A A N O W C thunder bay four drive rate enclosure that sounds like a popcorn popper, but it's got twenty five terabytes of data, whatever.

And I love IT. So um I always find new reasons to keep a surfer around. And currently it's an m two base mac money and it's doing grape .

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