Ep. 391: Hollywood Present & Future With Carole Kirschner
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Hey, happy and hollywood listeners, just a note that this episode was recorded a couple of days before the election.

Hi, and welcome to happier and hollywood the podcast about how to be happier, healthier, say, or more creative, more successful and more productive and super unpredictable and amenity insane world. I'm less craft, a TV writer and producer living in ally and with me is my high school friend and writing partners.

Sa, that's me. Sarah thane, on this podcast, we talk about being writers and hollywood, how we baLance a career and friendship and how to survive the war of attraction, that is, life and less Angeles .

today were talking to front of the podcast. Carol, questioner about the state of hollywood and where we go from .

here then and take a hike list, will talk about how attending our recent high school reunion made her realized, ed, that sometimes it's nice to surround yourself with people who don't do what you do.

We've also got a closet hack from a listener and Sarah has a TV recommendation. But first, there are just a quick update. Um recently we had our part one in part two of our fall listen our questions episodes.

And one of the questions was about would I ever be on survivor because I love that shows survivor and I was single. I can't because i'm a type diabetic. As much as I do love, survivor won't be applying.

And Sherry men had this comment, he said, podcast at home moment is saying i'd love to be on survival, plus answering a listener question about competition in hollywood. This, you are a survivor in the war of attrition in hollywood. No bananas for glue cos require.

I just got such a kick out of that. Thank you for that comment. We are both series survivors thus far of the war of attraction in hollywood. We have not yet been kicked off the island or out of the city. We didn't .

after IT out last ted outplay not yet.

We are still in IT yeah in IT to win IT alright.

less it's time for from the trade mel desks of in which we talk about what's most pressing in our workpapers today. Ah it's the state of hollywood now and what the future might hold. So how's that for an enormous topic?

Yes, luckily we're not going to tack a little one. Entertainment career coach Carol questioner is joining us to give us her thoughts. We talked to karol currently back in episode ninety nine, about her excEllent book, hollywood game plan, how to land a job in film TV or digital entertainment for anyone aspiring to have a career in show business. And recently, carrell posted a fantastic thread on threads that we want to talk to her about.

Carol cursor a is the director of the writers guild of america's show run our training program and the cbs diversity writers mentioning program, as well as an author and international speaker in her role as an entertainment career coach, SHE helps aspiring writers, producers, directors and executives navigate hollywood as they shuter barriers broken and thrive in the entertainment industry.

okay. So before we talk to Carol, we wanted to read her thread, which we just found very thought provoking. And Sarah, you're going to read IT because you have the Better voice of the two.

okay? So Carol wrote, times are hard for so many writers and other folks in hollywood. I know plenty of folks, by all rights, should be working who are living off savings or taking on survival jobs.

Two things on this. First, if you are struggling right now, now you're not alone. If you're an emerging writer who can get reads, if you know you're ready to staff, but the staff writer level jobs just aren't there.

Now you're not alone. If you're a working writer who is currently not working, if you've had a ton of jobs for years and now can't get a show runner meeting, you're not alone. This downturn is real.

It's not you, your talent, your worth, your value. It's external factors that are outside your control. Second, IT will get Better. I mean, I don't have a Crystal ball and i'm not in the prediction business, but i've been in the game a while.

I've seen huge seismic changes in the landscape before the shift to streaming and the strikes are a huge hit to the business, but there have been downturns before. In the past, the business has contracted, then expanded again, will likely never go back to A T, V landscape that was like IT was in twenty seventeen. That was a bubble.

But my experience and gut tells me the industry isn't collapsing. My best guess is that things are going to change, but work will slowly but surely wrapped back up. The business will look different, but IT will still exist and there will still be work available.

If you're currently not working, please do what you need to do to take care of yourself and writers. If you're called to this craft, may I gently suggest that you keep writing even when things feel dark? Sometimes when things turn around, they turn around fast.

Be ready. In other words, keep going. We'll all make IT through together .

on onward. So well said. Welcome, Carol. welcome.

hello. It's so great to be back. I love you guys. I'm so honored to be here.

but we're so happy to have you here. And we are so grateful to you for posting what we think is just an incredibly insightful and necessary post. You know, we keep hearing from other writers that they are experiencing exactly what you wrote about and they're we are all wondering, we are the only ones as IT just me, as IT just me. Everyone in town feels this way and it's comforting to just say, no.

it's not you. That's right. IT is so not you. I've talked to very few people who go everything is great.

Okay, having spoken to one person who said, everything is great and it's a really hard time and it's really hard for just about, I mean, maybe Shawn does not have a tough, right? You know what I mean ryans doing, okay, and bill and greg, they're doing fine. But everybody else is having a hard time IT.

IT is in, in fact, a very hard time. I know I wrote this, but i've been doing this one hundred years. And IT is clink. IT is all signal.

IT is contracted before and as I said, IT, I don't think I will go back to the outrageous M I don't think we're going to have six hundred shows on the air again. I just don't but three, fifty four the way that was before. I think that's what we're onna be.

Well, I want to ask you, you know, we talk a lot about just we say the business is change. The business is change. Hollywood is to having problems right now. But can you sum up from your position how it's changed? What happened?

yes. Well, all the financials, I don't that you know i'm bad at math and and i'm not as entrenched in all of the financial realities that are happening. But wall street is taking over much more of hollywood and IT depresses the fuck out of me.

That is about shareholders. What happened is they lost so much money and spend so much money that they have to become more responsible. And they said, people's expectation for you can do a historical limited series, and we will throw millions and millions and tens of millions of dollars that you and IT will be great.

And then they will fail. We'll do IT again. I think those days are over.

So what i'm seen and I know this for sure at at cbs and everybody that I talk to, as i'm sure everybody you talk to feels this way, but just a shrinking writers room numbers are shrinking. We we have three Green light room, have development rooms. I think it's ridiculous.

I came up during you know in the broadcast model, which honestly, what I think we're going to have is the broadcast model. But you're onna pay for IT and you're going to get commercials to I think that's what's gonna happen. I think we're going to see procedurals. I just think it's gonna the same model, but we have to pay seventeen dollars a month for IT.

Does seem like it's been heading that direction lately. I mean, I know I watch a lot of ads and streaming. Yes, yes.

Now we briefly mention this, but it's so hard right now for us because a lot of people say, hey, lisa and sera, what should we do now in this industry? Young, Young writers who are just starting out, we have a really hard time going yes, go for IT and then we feel bad like what is your advice for people who are just starting out when IT is such a difficult time?

Um what I tell people, it's funny. Somebody just emailed me and said, you know here it's tough in the business. I said, IT is really tough in the business.

So she's saying, don't do IT and I said, no, you only you can answer that question. The thing is, IT is hard now. IT will not always be hard. And if you have a specific voice and are able to make IT univerSally appealing, they will want you.

So what I tell people is, if there's nothing you've heard this before, I mean, we've all said this, if there's anything else you want to do, go do IT. But if this is what you want to do, work on your craft, meet people. And and we talked about this a little, I think, where everybody emerging writers, people not in A P W G A, even mid level writers, and even above, there's only two things over which you have control.

And one craft, and the other one is how many people your meeting. You can always become a Better writer, and you should be becoming a Better writer, and you should have new samples every year. And then the other is you should be connecting to the people that you have. I can't tell you the number of client and people i've spoken to that have said I met so many people and then during the pandemic or I just let go and and then we have to craft a strategy for getting back in touch with people because that's where jobs will come from. Is true people .

that is so true. And one good thing about the strike was I think a lot of people connected and a lot of pwg a writers walk the lines every day and did meet a lot of people. And so hopefully that is post pandemic happening again. But you're right, when we moved here, when we started out meeting people with our number one goal, and that is absolutely the thing that ultimately god is working, was who we knew absolutely.

And you know, everybody, I not everybody, but I think a lot of people who aren't rapped think as soon as I get an agent or manager, that's the golden ticket and then I don't have to do anything. And as you guys know, most people get their own jobs, yes. And yet you're still paying at ten percent, but they can submit you for work, but you're ably can be getting your own jobs.

No, the funny thing is that takes me back to when we got our first agent. We were like, yeah, you know what? What now? And he said, go me. Show runners.

Like, how are we gonna ET show runners? Of course, now all these years later, almost everyone we know is a show runners. So eventually IT happens.

You just have to keep at IT. So care. Another question for you. Writers have a model which is survived till l twenty five, but we don't know why anything will be different in twenty twenty five, which is something we say and you said in your post you don't have a Crystal ball but if you were forced to say when you think things are going to turn around, are we talking sooner or later?

Okay, I don't have a Crystal ball. People don't know where I live, so they can't come and get exactly. But I think by the summer of next year, things they're already starting to open up.

People are making sales. People are getting stopped. They are. But I heard something depressing, which IT isn't survived .

to twenty five. I heard that, not her. That one. Oh my gosh.

That was from a coe p but ignore that. I think by the middle of next year, things are going to be a hell of a lot Better than they are right now.

Well, that will give us all hope.

Yes, I like hearing that stay in the mix of twenty six people.

And one of the great things you said is to take care of yourself, like during this time, self care is really important. So what are you doing, Carol, to take care of yourself during this time?

Okay, I meditate. I'm very proud to say i've meditated for twenty minutes a day for the last two hundred and thirty seven days.

So that's like, wow, ow. graduates.

Thank you. And I have seen a palpable difference. I am not as anxious as I was when I have work to do. I just do one put in front of the other and and don't ring my hand.

So that has really helped watching bad reality shows, has really helped just escaping, you know, and I went to griffith park yesterday to do an immersive event and just, you know, I always say creative and creative out, yeah, you want to right? Have a life track. Immersive entertainment is the future.

And for people, if you're not working in television, they need you in that space. And there is work there and there will be more work there. Not that you shall leave television. I don't think you should. But if you are thinking about all the .

things that's interesting, I immersive entertainment, i've never heard that expression before.

Yeah, you know, like this isn't IT this is this is the most elementary of IT like a panic room where you've heard about those right love room, no escape rooms IT just gives me panic to think about more and more. Its like with stranger things, they're extending the brand. There was a live event that you could go to is in a parking lot for stranger things, and they made a ton of money on that. They are looking for ways to extend the brand through experiential entertainment, and that really will be something of the future.

I love that, and that's a good tip for some of those writers coming up to look for different places to use your talent while the business is writing itself.

Yes, and IT will write itself. IT truly will. Mediocre generic ideas we ll always get through.

And now.

right? But if you have a unique voice and you have a particular perspective that is fresh. And I hate that because people say, what do you mean by fresh and like it's it's a new take on something that is classic probably yeah and is entertaining that there will be an appetite for that. There is an appetite for that.

Yeah, we always say, look at baby rain there. You just never know.

Okay, we could talk about that forever. But yes, you is such a personal story. Yes, yes.

will Carol again? We are so thankful for your words of encouragement shared with the business at large on threads. We took them to hard, and we know many, many, many other people did as well. So and thank you for coming on and talking today with us.

IT is my pleasure, and i'm so glad people found open that because I really do believe you should have hope. I think there's there's reason for optimism.

excEllent. Well, we'll check back in with you after when it's all Better, will look back and reflect on .

this time right next up.

Liz had an insight at a recent high school reunion. But first, this break.

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Okay, sir, we are back to take a hike in which we discuss mental, physical, spiritual, emotional health. I call this mental health, and it's inspired by my recent trip to kansas city, where I went to our high school reunion.

Yes, you realize that it's good to spend time around people who don't do what you do.

yes. So you know obviously kinda city is not a hub for the entertainment business, especially the TV business. And so I was with all of our former classmates who have a wonderful jobs, lawyers, doctors, restaurant owners, someone who grows flowers and sells them to florist, people who work at various companies doing many, many things.

But nobody in my mist was a TV writer, and Sarah IT was just glorious to spend a few days with people who just don't do what I do. IT was a break from the constant mental stress of the business. Now we just talk to Carol about how IT is very stressful in hollywood right now.

And yes, people have read articles about IT. Maybe a couple people might even ask me about IT, but we're not all sharing IT. It's not their world. It's not their concern. And so I can just put IT to the side, enjoy myself, enjoy people and not be thinking about that.

yes. And of course, this is sort of one of the reasons I made to ohio. Obviously, there are a lot of people in show bis who are here.

But you know, this weekend, this particularly at home for me, because I was at Violet swim meet inventor, and it's just like swimmers at swim with teams from all over. But then there was a dad who I go for my way, who's a TV writer. And of course, there we were talking about the state of the business. And IT was like, uh, this again, like this is supposed to be my freezing. So being able to be in that kind of free zone for a few days must have been so great.

I was in Sarah, I love you. I love spending time of you, love betting honey lunches. But there is just no way you and I are gonna get together and not talk about business.

IT is not as violent points out the second to two of us are together. She's like, buzz, you're talking about business again. Who which I love.

I mean, we love to talk. Shop is my favorite thing in the world, but sometimes you want to take a break. I felt rejuvenated from IT.

Yes, part of that is just connecting with old friends, which is, as i've discussed many times on the pod, what are my favorite things in the world to do? Is to just connect with people, bond with people, but also IT was just nice to have a break. So my suggestion is make a point of putting yourself in situations where you're not thinking about IT.

Now maybe that's going to a movie. Well, maybe not a movie because you're automatically at a movie thinking about the business doing something or you're not surrounded by IT so that you can just refresh and you'll always be there for you to talk about, worry about and analyze, but sometimes you need to take a break. Yes, all right, there are coming up. We have a hollywood hack from a listener. But first, this break.

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Next, bank man.

i'm the new doctor. Welcome board the other C, A, B, C, thurday tending to our best from nine one one executive producer ryan Murphy comes a splashy new drama on a luxury .

cruise up to .

keep everyone three.

I have a post on thursday, nine, eight, zero, 一， N A B C, and stream .

on OK las. We're back with this week's hollywood hack, which comes from linsey in our facebook group, SHE wrote, after listening to today's happy episode, I realized I have a class attack. Turn all of your hangers backwards.

Then once you've warn something, put the hanger back the right way around after six months or what a season ends. Any hanger that is still backwards shows you what you haven't warn. Then you can easily decide what's worth keeping or donating.

Okay, this is so smart. As you said, you had heard this before somewhere I never have. I was completely ee opening to me.

Yes, IT is a great way to just organize yourself to figure out what you want to keep and what you don't want to keep. There are many people who feel strongly that if you haven't warn something for six months or a year, you should get rid of IT, donate IT to someone who will use IT. I find that difficult. I am one of those people who will say, well, I haven't worn in this in five years, but I may come in handy, but that would still be useful just as a way to keep track.

Yeah and I think for certain items of clothing, what you're saying is a hundred percent true, like a really nice pair of pants that you're just not going aware necessarily everywhere there might not be an occasion for, but just like the t shirt that you kind of like but don't and maybe IT fits and maybe IT does not that kind of stuff for a blouse that's like maybe looked great five years ago, doesn't look so great now it's good to have that really visible reminder.

Yes, I think blouses are a perfect item for this because they're always on hangers and they can pile up if you don't keep them unlimited in your closet. Yes, always looking for ways to improve closet organization. IT is definitely one of my weak points.

So thank you, lindsey, for that. Okay, there are five. Finally, you are up this week with a recommendation. Every week one of us recommend something we love T, V show movie book packets whenever IT may be. And you have a TV .

recommendation. Yes, this week I am recommending the great british bake off on netflix. It's season twelve. You probably have seen the show at some point and maybe you tuned in and then tuned out.

I have to tell you, this season is so freaking good like the Bakers are, first of all, like at a level that they're usually not at, like across the board. There are some really, really excEllent Bakers and the characters like IT just has such wonderful characters this season. I know their human beings, but they're on T V.

So i'm calling them characters. Um and my favorite of literally every season of the entire british bake off s series is neily. She's on the season. She's just this delightful, exuberant, funny, expressive woman. I just love watching her, but there are so many great people on this season.

Well, what's funny series is one of my favorite podcast drama darlings, which is a breakdown show of housewives and other shows. One of the women, and who often cohoes the show, was wearing a nearly costume on halloween. SHE loves nelly.

SHE was wearing a bray. Apparently nelly favors a brae. yeah. So I was like, okay, I must watch the show if there is loving IT so much and nelly is costume worthy, i've gotta check IT out. So i'm going to join you in watching great british bake off the season on netflix.

It's the one way I can get Violet to sit and watch T, V with me. If he hears IT should all be like up well, now you have to start the epo de over again. And I always like, no problem. Happy you to watch IT again, right? Well, we.

you need a little great british bake off in our lives. Sly do. And that's IT for this episode of happier and hollywood we love hearing from you. Email us or send a voice meo to happy hollywood and g mail dot com. Thank you for listening and please do follow us if you have an already.

Thank you to our guest carroll personal follow carroll on threads at coroner dot Carol, thanks to our executive producer chuck read and thanks to everyone at and call a sound. You can follow them on instagram at some call a sound.

Thanks to everyone at otto see. And as always, thank you to gretchen rubin. Happier in hollywood is part of the onward project.

Listen to the other onward project podcasts. Happier with gretchen ribbon e and side hustle school.

Get in touch. I'm on instagram and threads at this craft and Sarah is at s pain. We also have a facebook group search for happier on facebook to join the .

conversation until next week.

I'm seraphine and i'm less craft. Thanks for joining us.

It's a fun job and we enjoy IT.

Sarah, the reunion was at germany's house, and IT is so beautiful and SHE put on the most amazing spread. It's nice to have, you know, restaurant owners in our class.

Indeed, now i'm getting hungry. Her food is so good.

From the .

onward projects.