Rent vs. Buy: Can Down Payment Help from Family Tip the Scales?
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Welcome back to the rich girl. Round up a weekly discussion of the money with Katie show. I'm kaya tsan, and this is your favorite place to spend on monday morning with me and my executive for this saha, where we use the segment to talk through all sorts of money related topics right after a quick break.

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okay. So before we get into today's episode, this weeks upcoming main show is an honor of our wealth planner launch. That's y that's twenty twenty five wealth planner drop in this week. And one of the features that we spent months developing is a comprehensive financial independence timely that takes into account everything from temporary expenses to one time large purchases to inherit cist pensions to social security and more.

We also made IT way easier to differentiate in the planer between long term investments and investments for other things to avoid inflating your fine number if you are investing for a lot of different stuff at one time. We also added a drawdown simulation by popular demands. You can see what's happening when you quit working.

Very fun, very cool. On wednesday, we're going to talk about what IT takes to calculate a truly accurate five timeline in honor of the wealth planner release. So if you are interested, you want to be notified when IT drops and you want an exclusive twenty five percent off discount code, which is the largest discount that we will offer all year.

You can sign up in the showoffs to get on the weight list, and we will slide into your gl dms winning this time. But in the meantime, onto the rounds up. Hanna, what is our question today? Well.

we're back on the money with Kitty show or U. S. Complicated hypotheticals. And Kitty runs the next to see what's Better.

Everyone's bw. This week's question .

came from merchant irl laun. SHE said, I live in in an expensive housing market where IT makes more financial sense to rent if i'm only pulling for my own resources, but my parents want me to buy and are willing to contribute to the downpayment if I choose to do so. Now, classic for me, baby, you, they want me, if they have, they want someone to buy.

Uh, in my ideal world, they would just give me the money. Now let me invest ted how I want, but I don't feel comfortable asking for that. But even if they are help, my uh, monthly housing payment would be higher than IT is now. So I need to reduce the amount i'm investing.

But part of me is tempted by the immediate bump in in the asset section of my network spread sheet is the wealth planner, though, and IT feels like a cash infusion would move me toward my financial goals, even with this lower savings rate going forward. Any advice on how to consider a wildfang conditional on buying when running the rent in buying numbers? And we have a dominant these in a while.

And I like, rub hands together, fires. I'm preaching. The other really cool thing, honestly, about the scale that we have reached now with this show is that there are people in our audience who are way bigger nerds and have way Better, not like a way .

Better. And well, we actually .

got there was an episode, and not sure if you god will remember IT, but we didn't episode a couple months ago where the person was like, should I pay off this headlock faster or continue contributing the maximum to my pretext for one k and we had like reach the conclusion on this show that because of the tax break, IT was Better to continue funding the four o one k. I'd like full tiled.

I think the person email email and was like, i'm talking to pay off that he looked because I just don't like having ten more like, all right, that's here. But someone had reached out and was like, hey, I built a model that actually fully takes into consideration every single thing and like, yes, you underestimated how much Better off they are contributing to the four one k and I opened this document. They sent me.

IT was enormous, like, they had a spread sheet. IT was a huge spread sheet, and they had factor in so many different things. I was like, okay, amazing.

So I feel confident that when we do this, we will hear from people who will tell us if we are missing things. And then, of course, we will always come back and note any important emissions. But in the meantime, we went ahead.

We asked lawin for all the numbers so we could really model this out, talk through IT. And similarly, two past episodes of this nature. The intent in sharing this, like very specific hypothetical, is that my hope is that walking through the thought process will be illustrative for how to piece information like this together. And so you can kind of think about, okay, how could I solve similar types of like financial opportunity, cost problems.

make sense, ready, run through again.

Let's do IT. okay. So her rent is twenty one hundred dollars per month. That is her half of a two bedroom, one bathroom apartment with her partner, kay SHE earns one hundred and thirty thousand dollars per year, and he is currently contributing eleven percent of her paycheck to a pension and around eighteen hundred dollars per month to her pretax four fifty seven b.

So to make matters easy, I just plugged all of that into the wealth planner to get a quick estimate for her take home pay. It's around fifty eight hundred dollars per month after sheet, makes those contributions of around twenty nine hundred dollars to those various retirement vehicles and pace taxes and what not. So for those of you doing the math in your heads, SHE is investing about thirty five percent of her post tax income for retirement .

good for her. He also has two hundred .

thousand dollars invested already in a taxable account. But SHE mentioned that is not her top priority right now, which I don't think she's actively making major contributions to that. And then quickly, just a little bit more math.

There's only be a lot of maths. Her twenty one hundred dollar per month rent is approximately twenty four percent of her post taxi gump. So just that we're all like tracking here.

She's in a great spot with her current housing costs as far as her income goes. And this is the kicker equivalent housing in her neighborhood. We're talking a two bedroom, one bathroom condo costs between nine hundred thousand and one two million dollars. So SHE bathroom for one bathroom, can you imagine spending a million dollars for a single ille? I won't even stay in places that only because I have touching diety that someone is gonna using IT when I need IT and that's on getting my december colonus century and SHE sent zillow links to us to a to prove IT okay. And her parents are willing to offer her two hundred grand for a downpayment, but they're offering IT to her in the form of either a zero percent loan that you will need to pay back or as co purchasers on the property who will then own that percentage of the equity. Is my understanding okay.

I think that all tracks. So I mean, besides the fact that you would only you Carry over million dollars and get one singular toilet, how would you pencil out kind of how this works?

Alright, so i'm gonna assume that she's going for something kind of in the middle range of that Price range. And I say he finds a place for one million fifty thousand dollars. Her parents are loaning her two hundred k, so she's going to put that down, right? And i'm kind of ignoring like closing costs and all that, obviously, that, that does really matter here, but i'm trying to look at long term where this lends.

I don't want to get two caught up in the details, but you'll put that two hundred kid down sh'll need to borrow eight hundred and fifty thousand from the bank. And with an interest rate of six percent, the monthly payment on the principal and interest will be fifty one hundred dollars. And then we obviously still have to add in property taxes and insurance. And potentially if it's a condo, i'm going to assume there way fees kind of honest, even ignoring that. But her total monthly payment will be roughly a thousand dollars more conservatively or around sixty one hundred dollars per month.

whom I mean, so obviously, he could refinance in the future, but we're not assuming that he does .

that at this cat one hundred. So as we know, he is currently splitting her red, so it's not quite fair to compare her twenty one hundred dollar half of rent to a sixty one hundred dollar monthly payment of servicing debt is more apples to apples to there.

The forty two hundred dollars in rent to the sixty one hundred dollars, if they continue to split the monthly payment, her quarter of half after buying will be about three thousand fifty dollars or about nine hundred and fifty dollars more per months. Then SHE is paying now. And i'm saying half in quotes because like as far as the bank is concerned, as far as the property tax processor is concerned, SHE is responsible for that full payment. But obviously, we're assuming that the living situation will continue and someone else will be living there and paying for half a bit.

I guess i'm just worried that if SHE in her partner would have break up and the partner had been paying towards the mortgage.

But I guess you can get to that.

your stealing my thunder. So so okay.

So I wanted to flesh out the comparison between her total rent and assuming is increasing by three percent per year, as we know rent goes up and her total monthly payment first, just to see at which point in the future her total rent with eclipse, her cause of ownership, assuming that that rent increases by three percent per year and her taxes and insurance never change, which I think we're talking about, someone that lives in inferences, which if you know anything about the inferences, co, you've got earthquakes, you've got fire.

You've got all source of things I could impact your insurance. But we are going to assume that none of that ever changes. IT would still take fourteen years for her rent to cost more than the cost of serving that dead to the bank, and obviously like the other associated costs of ownership. So so .

right now, things are leaning towards right?

Yes, things are not looking so hot for buying yet, yet, right? Presumably all that time, SHE could be investing the cost of difference. And SHE eludes to this in her question that SHE is afraid SHE will have less to invest if he does this.

But as we know, that gap will close over time. Rent does up theoretically your monthly cost. Otherness should be relatively level even though there are more surprises when you're home owner. And as of right now, we know that, that gap closes after fourteen years.

So if SHE invests her half of the difference because he is not paying the full Price in either renting or buying in this situation, right in an S M P five hundred index fund and he gets six percent average january returns until year fourteen, SHE would end up in your fourteen with around one hundred and fifty k in an investment account. But crucially, no property. SHE doesn't own the place that he lives, so that's worth knowing.

But then her parents are offering this. Two hundred thousand dollars downpayment a system? yes. So how would we figure that out?

So this is why this cases unique, because ordinarily we would have to look at the opportunity cost of that two hundred thousand dollars down payment. We have to say, okay, well, if you could put IT into a house, like what would you do in the stock market if left alone? But IT sounds like SHE only gets access to this two hundred k if SHE uses IT by a house.

Super opportunity cost in this calculation is backwards for how we would Normally run IT. It's also unique because he is sort of house hacking like he has a partner who was paying half of monthly payment. I should say SHE would be house hacking.

There would be another person whose income is paying down that mortgage. But I guess if they get married, that equation does kind of shift a little bit because right now, this is someone whose income is not feeling her saving and investing in their spending is not affecting her spending. But if they get married now, theoretically, it's like one household you you together are responsible for servicing ness payment.

So it's it's a little bit less you have a roommate attention and more like it's all just coming out of money that would have been quoted yours anyway. K, okay. So that said, that does sound as though her parents expect or to either pay IT back or enter into a sort of like a business agreement and invest that two hundred k as I can, equity stake in this property.

So if we go the payback, the two hundred thousand out, my question would be, are you paying back two hundred thousand dollars over the same term as the mortgage? Like are you are they expecting you to pay IT back as you go? Because if so, you're looking at like is that almost like you're getting a second zero percent mortgage from your parents where you're spending five hundred and fifty five dollars a months to pay them back?

Because IT reminds me of when people say in a bar for my four and kah for my tom payment, it's kind of the same thing. You have to also pay them. You pay so a pretty penny.

yeah. And so with that added to the projections, you're getting the two hundred k bump up front, but your opportunity cost of the extra expensive owning goes up pretty considerably from one hundred and forty thousand and investment account by your fourteen to around two hundred and thirty thousand. I'm sure that there are other options here.

These are obvious her parents, they clearly have a vested interest in her owning where he lives or there they want her to and are willing to subsidy that in part. I think that there is like another element here of if he just has to pay the money back when he sells IT eventually, right, that would, I think, kind of change the game a little bit because then you're not paying IT back as you go. And so you're have a little bit more money now to do other things with. But if we aren't paying IT back, but they're getting an equity stake, my assumption is that, that percentage around twenty percent, you know, whatever they're putting down of future gains would theoretically belong to them or they would have claim ed to IT based on the way that they said they won't enter IT into IT as co owners. The only endless interesting about that is that in the submission, SHE said her parents said he could keep all the gains, but he would have to repay the two hundred thousand when he sells IT.

so she's basically on the hook for only two hundred thousand.

Nothing IT does sound like that the case. okay. So a lot of complexity and hypothetical, but like I would say at the end of the day, if he gets to decide, I believe the Better structure for her is to pay IT back when he sells, IT say, okay, I sold the property.

I've lived in IT for her over many years. Here's your two hundred thousand dollars back. And like we'll get into what type of growth would be would be assuming in order to see if he is like coming out ahead, basically. okay.

So that makes sense. So now we have to assume what that appreciation looks like, what the sales Price is going to be and when he decides to move. So how would we yes.

So we're talking now jumping into the future, selling some point in the future. So I looked up appreciation in her zip code over the last ten years, property in her city has appreciated at a rate about five point one percent per year. Um if we go back to two thousand and have like a full picture, it's four point two seven percent per year. So i'm going to assure five gonna go kind in the middle well really closer to the upper end and then effectively figure out what would happen in the future if SHE takes her offer structures is such that SHE only pays back the two hundred thousand after SHE sells and accounting for the opportunity cost difference of her rent versus mortgage for those fourteen years that she's spending a lot more on housing.

I have a follow up that has nothing to do with this special question, but how long did IT take you to figure out all of these factors and run all the numbers about an hour?

Oh.

okay, this is very comprehensive to a very impressed. Well.

I guess i'll see if anyone says, kid, you're so wrong. And actually, here's a Better model.

When the nerds come in, SHE said.

I know I kind of feel like the kid that would be like would take the most round about way of solving them as problem. And like the really market in the classroom, I know you can just do this. Not like, okay, well, you know, we will go there. Last of about, okay. So to do this, I used an a modification calculator and I plugged in our eight hundred and fifty k that we're borrowing in our six percent rate for thirty years fixed.

And then I ripped the data into my own reddit, where I had everything else kind of and basically compared the amount that he still owed on the mortgage with the appreciating home value, assuming that is going from one million fifty thousand up by five percent per year like we know routinely. And so if we assume that she's going na pay three percent when SHE sells, I think it's usually concert of six. But with the changes .

to are in my and my god.

he only so just because it's gonna a high value sale, right? And so I usually when houses are a Better expensive, you have a little bit more wigged room with your negotiation. But I basically subtracted out all of our different variables.

So I projected into the future. I then looked at the post sale value. After paying three percent to an agent, I then subtracted what he would still owe the bank on that mortgage.

I then subtracted the two hundred thousand dollars that her parents later, and then I accounted for the opportunity cost of the difference in her half of the monthly payment that could have been invested. So like the money that you know, I mean, what that would have become an an investment account and kind of like that out and drum roll, please. IT does appear as though he would come out ahead pretty much immediately, taking their offer.

Wow, absolutely shocked me. In fact, i'm so amazed by that outcome that I am bad to double check all my math because I was like, wait or what really? yeah.

So SHE would be in the negative slash in the danger zone where, like all the variables we didn't really talk about, like closing costs like that can be tens of thousands of dollars or like you have to replace the heating and cooling in the unit or condo, I think are also a little bit funky because I just remember talking one girl who bought a condo in dallas and within like a year, something had broken the atrac. But because of like where IT was on the roof, SHE had to pay like a special company to come in. IT was like a twenty thousand dollar or deal. So i'm defining that is like the danger zone where swings like that could kind of like tip you over but yeah, men, I mean, she's like six figures ahead by your five wow. Assuming one of that goes wrong, if I remember her original .

email correctly, SHE was like this wouldn't happen for a year to we may relocate to the east bay where things are a little bit cheaper, considerably cheaper. So maybe you should get more back for her book as SHE moves two males. Yeah.

I think if he did that, I would be pretty clear. So I mean, year five, what i'm referring to is like the home theoretically going up by and five percent per year would be worth one point two million SHE would still uh about seven hundred and nine decay. The poste value after the three percent would be discounted a little bit oxley about forty grand.

SHE pays the bank back. By then she's got four hundred and forty seven k leftover. Then SHE pays her parents back.

She's got two hundred and forty seven k and then she's accounting for the opportunity cost of what that money could have done if I had been invested in the stock market. That difference, rentier. And by then she's done like one hundred and eighty seven k ahead. But I like you. That's pretty significantly ahead.

sure. But also there are a couple things that we didn't talk too much about like risks and watch out. So I know that I know before I let you get to those, but the other one is just like that to be five hundred is up, what?

Twenty percent right now. So six percent is pretty conservative. But what are the other ones?

yeah. So I think like in total, I would say that generally speaking, I am pretty pro renting unless you know you are gonna in a place for a very, very long time. But in this case, with that much downplays assistance with a roommate who is essentially footing half the bill for everything.

Well, for the monthly payments, obviously, if you are assuming that you can charge them that which IT sounds like IT might be a little above market rent, so you might not be getting truly half, but you are effectively house hacking to some degree and g in a traditionally strong market, right? So all of these things taken together, borrowing any major downturn in her market or major maintenance issues, if you can stick around for ten years, you can do quite well. Like at the ten year mark, we're still talking about five hundred thousand dollars in like net proceeds after factory and paying back the bank, paying back your parents discounting for opportunity cost and if you're already saving thirty five percent for retirement.

So this is not someone warm like I don't know your kind of under contributing for your future, like I maybe wouldn't go that out yet. We obviously have to see how much that would be reduced by. But her favorite is so strong that i'm like, yeah, all these things taken together, I think IT IT makes sense.

However, the biggest risk watch out that I can see think is too full actually. One is a pro longed downturn. So SHE lives in inferences go, which has done well but actually did quite poorly in the twenty years prior to that.

Like a detroit had Better appreciation than sf in the last couple decades of the twenty century. So things change, and we know we cannot afford this monthly payment on her own. SHE needs a partner or remain to afford that.

There is very, very, very little room to downsize your earning potential when your monthly burgage payment is six grand a month. So i'm not sure how much your partner makes. But to afford housing that costs six thousand dollars per month, they need to be collectively earning about twenty thousand dollars a month, which is two hundred and forty thousand dollars year like minim.

So that makes sense to maybe as when I heard sixty one hundred dollars a month, I heard dropped .

into my study yeah, it's a lot. It's a very high monthly payment that you would be on the hook for.

But I feel like there are also some french details we want to be aware of. So one of the things that SHE mentioned in her email was that the parents were still deciding if it's going to be a zero percent loan equity stake because there were some control tax implications. They said something like a four point two percent tax from the areas. I don't really know how that would pan out, but I guess you'd have to rerun the numbers and see .

if that make sense. Yeah.

he said that unpaid baLances will be accounted for in a state distributions should her parents passed away before SHE sells IT. So effectively, SHE would get less if her parents unfortunately passed. And then in my opinion, I would leave her in a situation where SHE can't really expend her budget either too much unless her income basically increases because like you said, if the partners not there, she's going over hard time.

If he decides to motor ropin jobs, e's kind of good. So that's the thing the last thing that I would keep in mind. But if someone had, say, the walls cleaner, uh, would you recommend that they keep that loan at zero percent under the debt section or in a new network? Remembers that is there in the even if she's not paying a back peace meal, that's not really her money, so speak.

Yeah you you're so right because he will when SHE sells IT have to pay that money back. So it's Better to discount your present that worth calculations by IT now because in order to realize the gains on the asset section of the table, you by definition will have to realize that two hundred k deficit. So yes, I would definitely say tracking IT .

that way makes the most sense.

say president value, net value value are .

yeah that was not present.

Well, the the joke is that I don't even know what that means. So what's notable to me, though, for most people listening to this, who I don't know, you know this situation, now that we are entering like that great wealth transfer timing, this may actually be more common than we realized. We're like parents are willing to extend wealth in this way, but would not be willing to just like hand over a two hundred thousand dollar check or are not willing to distribute that in lessor using IT in this way. But I do think it's notable that if that two hundred thousand were hers and IT was growing at a rate of six percent per year, SHE wouldn't even like break even until around your ten as in like SHE would be in the whole as opposed to renting and investing the difference, continuing to invest the difference until you're ten as opposed to being like half a million dollars ahead. So that opportunity cost of the downpayment is an enormously powerful variable when you are trying to decide which path makes more financial sense.

Yeah, that makes sense. And I guess if you're trying not to, a million dollar property would go even further, right? Yeah speaking of homes, yeah, I have a money story.

Let's go.

Actually partially related to myself, civil seat. But this rich girl, chancy wrote in about the, uh, N A R agreement. And so I want to just give some contexts to what that's about for I read her full statement.

But basically， if you are in the process of buying a home, you are probably aware of the national association of real ters and are so over the summer, you might have seen have lines. There was a settlement agreement that resolved claims that were brought on by homeschoolers regarding broker compensation. And so this officially went into effective office seventeenth of this year.

And they have a whole page on this on their website, which I link to in the showers. But the kind of boil IT down when you are talked about sellar costs in the past, buyers were not really expected to pay their real estate broker directly. So if i'm a buyer, which I currently am, and I have an agent and I want to go buy a house, I am not usually paying that three percent fee or whatever that fee is.

And that's because those commission fees to both the buyers agent and the sellers agent were played by the home seller. And so those commissions are usually about five or six percent of a home selling Price. So for example, of U P.

Four hundred fifty k home, which is, I believe, the average Price of a home in the united states right now. Um a cellular, a beer smoker for twenty seven thousand dollars in fees. And that would be split between the tail.

Yeah no experts have said that this commission kind of is baked into the homeless sting Price and then kind of inflates the home Price to begin with. Um but beginning that week in August the til D R is that you now must have its two parts. You must have a written by a agreement that meets certain criteria.

Ia about how an agent will be compensated. So if you are trying to work with like several agent, which other friends have mentioned doing, you get really do that anymore. You're going to be on the exclusive agent.

And as part of that, uh, disclosure, you're gonna a have a very specific cause of that amount or rate of compensation and how is going to be determined. And IT can be and has to be objective. IT can't be open ended. IT can't be like bier broker compensation shall be whatever the amount is. It's going to be like it's either zero dollars x percent x .

rily ray x lap oh because there's no longer like a it's no longer in these contracts is default that the seller has to pay them three percent. So now they have to come to you to get paid for their work.

exactly. And so the second part of this is that the offer of compensation. So when a seller or sellers agent shares that compensation with the virus, agent IT can't be shared anymore on the mls, which is like a multiple listing services for your area where they put all the homes.

And so what some agents in the past used to do is they used to filter out homes that were for sale that were like three percent commission, so that they weren't waste their time on anything that was less. And then people were like, that's not really fair. So now any offer of compensation is not shared on there.

So the seller can still offer they can still make that offer available. But IT has to be communicated off of the eels. So this brings me a chancy story in my own.

Uh, so Cheney, I said, listen up, home virus, you need to negotiate for lower fees with your agents. Most don't even realized they need to do this because the virus agents are still telling buyers they don't need to worry because sellers typically pay the feeds. My husband currently relocating from colorado surface to new mexico. So we're going through the buying and selling process. New mexico requires you design a broker agreement before any agent control you. A house which is the same that I I just mentioned is like a new um addition and I was aware of the N R agreement, but I didn't really understand what I meant for us as a new so we signed to by agreement at three percent, but we should have negotiated especially because the Price point of homes were looking at a still a great deal for an agent at two and a percent IT turns out that the seller of the home were now under contract with, uh, negotiated five percent split between the agents and now we are on the hook for .

that additional wait so the seller can negotiate on your behalf and then you're on the hook to pay whatever they negotiate.

SHE said. I am now meeting with my selling agents to list my home in color to and when I asked what therefore I was, they instantly came down from the old six percent norm that was split between agents before I even tried negotiating IT. So that sounds like this seller is offering to cover the two and a half percent, and that's the max that she's negotiated for with her side of the story. And so for them, if the negotiated three percent for their buyer, their buyers agent, then they have to pay that extra point five percent.

all there just paying the differential over to the seller who negotiated five percent, whatever is like, they're gonna yond the hook for two and a half. But because the buyer agreed that they would get three, they now foot the bill for the OK down tracking. wow.

okay. Well, these are there's interesting little pieces of fall out from that courtroom decision like it's I feel like people just don't know. I don't I didn't know.

The argument from the court is that this is actually making things more transparent for buyers because he gives them the opportunity ice and like to decide and that they can negotiate, which is what people didn't feel like they could do before. But so i'm in a similar boat because I am house hunting as well. If you are in our decade, hit me up because you grow doesn't what he's doing.

But when I met a real, I did have design an exclusivity agreement with them, which when we talk to previous real ters, IT wasn't an issue because IT was before this August seventeen th. So and is that kind of hit SHE was like now you got to do this. And then when we were talking through that commission, SHE was at front like, hey, these things are negotiable.

Now boba three percent as a standard. And boba, I think we just signed for the three percent. I don't even know that you can negotiate down to two point five until I read this rich go on up, which is why I think it's important that we are few guys if you are in the same boat. Because now I could be in a similar situation if I go to buy a house and i'd be on the hope for that half percent .

the exclusivity agreement. Things seem so wrong to me though, because what if you're working with someone and you signed an agreement and then they just like fall off and they suck.

there's preventers on their end that they have to reach of like timely service. And baby, you can break the agreement under circumstances .

yeah like how binding or those they're .

pretty reasonable. But obviously, you are on the hook into l if you find your own home and you do most of the network as a chance change, saying, like my did, yes, we did IT all, then you're just paying, you know, an extra five or ten thousand dollars for my ft. They didn't really .

do much driving uts. Well, when we're moving to denver in the spring, we had chat with a couple agents just to be like, we don't know if we want to renter by maybe you can help us find you know where our options, finding stuff for us on rental and buyers, markets, whatever. And no one was trying to get me to sign ship. So I like I think these people can tell that I am extremely on committee and they're not even to waste their time trying to get me to sign something IT applies .

even if you just want to tour a home wild, obviously can go to an open house and you don't assign like entered open house. But if you reject to an agent, you're O, K, I want to go to this, you have to sign and IT was something that my real td disclosed like you was like, I can't actually show you this one home that interested in until you sign that agreement for me because because that's like the legal ramification now of this larger and A R follow you .

know what's interesting though, I mean, not to be shady, but like I would feel pretty comfortable. I think just showing myself the houses like if I know where i'm trying to go and there's an open house, I feel like I could and check IT out on my own without really needing someone to coach. Show IT to me like if the owner is there and their agents is there in order, I mean, so what is the benefit then of like having someone who's taking cordon court, taking you there to show at you.

So a couple of things have popped up for us. One is if we got in before I was even on the market because our real ter was able to communicate to their real ter and say like a couple, it's really interested, not really something you can use for for sure too. They're able to also communicate with that real task questions.

Like do you we think that they'd be flexible on these sorts of things? What's their time line? I like they just have more connections to that. Reilly, I personally have never tried to get in touch with someone else real to ask these questions. And three, like there are real tres that .

will be really .

honest with you about like I wouldn't buy this because .

fuggers.

but I do think that there are certain things that they are kind like if you read between the lines, think or just like for xxi ample, I remember there one of the things that I said is like, I really don't like that LV p flying that's like dark, right?

You know that i'm talking about a milk and I was like, i'd really prefer hardwood and so we'd like went to some open houses and SHE is like, there's definitely like hardwood underneath all of this other stuff like like stuff that they know about houses that I just wanted know where there yeah I can see that the outlet in this place is great because IT connects to this. And that's really you for. And like, I wouldn't know that you .

could fit a full, bouncy castle in this backyard. And have you considered that?

I mean, that would be one of the first things I do for my dog.

This is making sense. Okay, right? With IT I will say that there are interesting subject. Its where people will talk about like IT give IT people advice on how to list on the seller side, how to list your own home and be your own agent, like save the five percent whatever.

So I know that there are some people who like take that as a chAllenge of, like i'm gona do this on my own and save with the money. I personally to use remote language, one of my money dies as convenience. So I think I would probably be wit like god be working with the pro, but that information is out there. I think I .

would do IT if I was like an established manner like I don't feel like I know enough about a house to like list and really fired and listing.

You get the house first.

Well, yes.

I got some time.

But I mean.

I heard as a non Howard, I can't see myself listing. I feel you, I feel you you're like i've never done that before. I don't know what expect of never been through the process .

yeah but like people who are like, oh, already found the house on my own bubble blood and like, well, I understand why you wouldn't want to pay the three percent, but it's like if your rails are also like fought for you to get concessions or got the closing cost cut down or what. I just feel like those are things that I can't necessarily negotiate for myself because I am baby and if they're like, no, i'm like, okay.

so sorry for asking .

my bed so oh.

man, okay, wait before we go. I do have a funny related story to that of being conflict diverse. So was talking to tell us about this year other night he was telling me that I am a mark when IT comes to is like any ones you know got a booth and they're trying to talk you about something inside was knocked in on the door asking for a donation like there is someone on a bike who who has a bible they want to give you. He's like you are remark, like you will stand there and listen to anybody and you're way too nice and you're always giving people but so I go, yeah, Thomas but that's because I feel badly like I feel bad that like they're asking for my like I feel I feel obliged to give IT to them.

He was he goes why .

he was like they should feel bad. They're the ones imposing on you. And I was like that so true. They are imposing on me. They are asking for my time.

Why do I obligated to give IT to them? And so I was just interesting because he was like, yeah, I never feel obligated. I don't feel behind if I say no.

When someone asks me for my time, i'm like, no good luck, but not interested. And I was like, that feels kind of to our conversations about being afraid of conflict, or like being a people pleaser or wanting to negotiate against yourself. I can't help but notice that he feels a little gender that I feel like growing up.

I was always told like to be a nice girl. To be a good girl, you should be very accommodate. You make everyone feel comfortable.

Yeah, you just want to be a good girl, right? In part of being a good woman is being given and being self less and giving anyone anything they mean from you. And so I am trying i'm working on being just a little bit more SHE said to have .

considered being believe that out that .

have you written the exercise where you walked .

down the street and you don't move out of the way when men walk on the sidewalk?

I would I have hives just thinking about IT.

you'll really ze how often you'll like, you'll just move and the man never moves. And I have started doing and I started doing that when I worked in the city. And I like, go, this is all of the time too.

So I was so funny because we were having a conversation on a walk and I was a ky, you're right. I don't know people my time, just because they ask for IT, they are imposing on me. I deserve to be.

I am in control. My time literally hano. We turn the corner in, two missionaries on bikes ride, and they go, can we tell you about jesus? And I walked him, and I turned to him, and I go with you.

I was the first.

I was like, wow.

why do you have so many missionaries on bikes? I've never heard .

of this before. You it's central. It's the desert of california.

Everyone thinks california world.

all the liberal's live.

not do. That's something to coast. Yeah, medicine. Like, no.

no, I do. I was like, no thanks, but good luck. And also you a gilly pretty and i'm ruling for you.

Well, I think the other thing too is like i'm not saying that we are well known, but I think there's this like feeling of like if someone sees me and i'm not super nice to them and then they put two into together that I am X, I, I. I'm many famous .

in the news of personal finance. People are going to hear this voice and they are, well.

I told you last I in wedding and the guy that I was heard up to walked down the island, he was, they go, what do you do is that i'm a personal finance. You have this blog at post, whatever. And I said, it's another morning brew and he said, morning brew, oh, I listen to the podcast. I really like that blonde money lady and I was like that .

porting for duty. It's funny because I think um people will like with the chapel room discourse, people always be like, I feel like that's a thing. Well, well, you don't want to be reckon I don't like I fuck and love IT.

remember when I said that at the airport, he told to up and no, yeah, we got dropped off the airport, if you remember, are waiting for jani and then I was like, oh my god, money with kate. Good.

you are faking IT you are. I'm saying on real people come up to me and they go, I love your show. We're like, there was a united flight attendant ones that when he was like, what would you like to drink and I also love podcast and I was like beaming for the rest of the flight.

So I absolutely love the attention as a matter effect. I got in the podcasting because I love attention. To withhold the attention, for me is actually cruel, unusual, but not if you're selling bible first, you have a boost, think you want to signal.

Okay, that's all this is rich. Go round up and we will see you on wednesday to talk about the twenty twenty five wealth player and what IT take to calculate a truly comprehensive financial independence timely. And yes, that includes using some your investments for down payment.