cover of episode 223. Odessa in Love and War

223. Odessa in Love and War

2024/11/28
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Julian Evans
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Patrick Bishop
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Patrick Bishop: 本期节目探讨了乌克兰人民在战争中展现出的坚韧和勇气,以及乌克兰独特的文化认同,并对俄罗斯否认乌克兰独立文化认同的观点进行了反驳。访谈中,重点关注了Julian Evans的新书《敖德萨的爱与战争》,该书深入探讨了当代乌克兰的价值观和本质。 Julian Evans: 作者回顾了他30多年来与乌克兰,特别是敖德萨的深厚联系,见证了乌克兰从苏联解体后的艰难时期到成为一个国家的历程。他分享了对俄乌战争历史、文化和情感影响的独到见解,特别是对乌克兰人民的影响。他描述了20世纪90年代敖德萨的社会氛围,犯罪、政治和经济势力交织,社会氛围紧张但充满活力。他讲述了自己在敖德萨的爱情故事,以及他对乌克兰人民性格的观察:他们既有惊人的容忍度,也有不屈服于压迫的决心。作者还谈到了乌克兰的改革历程,以及寡头政治对国家改革的影响,特别是顿巴斯地区寡头为俄罗斯分裂主义提供了可乘之机。他还分享了战争对乌克兰社会的影响,战争加速了乌克兰民族团结和认同感的增强,但也导致了社会内部的矛盾和战争疲劳。最后,作者谈到了他对西方国家支持乌克兰的看法,以及他参与的向乌克兰前线运送物资的援助行动。 Julian Evans: 作者详细描述了其在乌克兰的亲身经历,以及对乌克兰人民在面对侵略时的精神状态和韧性的观察。他强调了这场战争对乌克兰人民的生存意义,以及他们对战争结束的渴望。作者还分享了他与乌克兰士兵的对话,士兵们表达了强烈的求胜愿望,因为他们意识到失败将意味着被俄罗斯同化。作者还谈到了战争对乌克兰社会可能造成的长期影响,包括可能出现的社会分裂和创伤后反应。此外,作者还呼吁西方国家提供更多实际支持,例如派遣少量部队协助乌克兰后勤工作,以帮助乌克兰人民渡过难关。

Deep Dive

Key Insights

Why did Julian Evans first visit Ukraine?

He was inspired by Bruce Chatwin's travel writing about Russia and organized a boat trip down the Dnieper River, which led him to discover Ukraine.

What was the atmosphere like in Odessa during Julian Evans' early visits?

It was a mix of excitement and apprehension, with a significant overlap between the criminal, political, and economic worlds, creating an edgy yet vibrant environment.

How did Julian Evans' relationship with a painter in Odessa begin?

He met her while she was working as a waitress in one of Odessa's few good restaurants and eventually fell in love with her, leading to marriage.

What are the two key aspects of the Ukrainian character according to Julian Evans?

The Ukrainian character is marked by a strong tolerance and a deep determination not to be oppressed, which has fueled their resolve during the war.

How has the war affected Ukrainian society's sense of identity?

The war has deepened a sense of national solidarity and identity, with many Ukrainians feeling a stronger connection to their country and a diminished historical attachment to Russia.

What challenges do Ukrainian soldiers face on the front lines?

They face long periods without rest, insufficient ammunition and weapons, and difficult conditions, leading to exhaustion and morale issues.

Why does Julian Evans believe that Western countries should consider sending troops to Ukraine?

He argues that small contingents of troops from various countries could help with logistics and support, which would significantly boost Ukrainian morale and effectiveness.

What is Julian Evans' initiative to support Ukraine during the war?

He collaborates with Assist Ukraine to fundraise and deliver medical supplies, vehicles, and other essential equipment to frontline units.

Why does Julian Evans consider the stakes in Ukraine to be so high?

He believes that Ukraine's freedom and democracy are crucial not just for the country but for the global democratic order, as its defeat could embolden other authoritarian regimes.

Chapters
This chapter explores the author's personal journey into Ukraine's history, starting from its unsteady steps as a democracy after the Soviet Union's collapse. It delves into the complex political and criminal landscape of the time, highlighting the challenges faced by the country in its pursuit of freedom and democracy.
  • Ukrainian identity and culture denied by Putin
  • Odessa's romantic atmosphere contrasted with its gangster culture
  • The impact of historical events like the Holodomor on Ukrainian identity
  • The role of oligarchs in shaping the political and economic landscape
  • The early challenges of building a democratic society in Ukraine

Shownotes Transcript

In a powerful interview Patrick speaks to author Julian Evans who has over the past 30 years build his own powerful connection to Ukraine and in particular the city of Odesa.

He describes his experiences in witnessing the birth of Ukraine as a nation from the hardships of the 1990s in the wake of the collapse of the Soviet Union. And shares new fresh insights into the history of Russia’s war against Ukraine and its cultural and emotional impacts, particularly on the Ukrainians themselves.

If you have any thoughts or questions, you can send them to - [email protected]

Producer: James Hodgson

Twitter: @PodBattleground

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