#70 UX Bites: Career Advice into AR, VR, and AI Solutions with Sarah Tan
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Hello friends and welcome back to this special edition of the UX Bytes edition in the future of UX podcast. In this UX Bytes podcast episodes we are diving into a little bit more personal specific topics that really shape the careers of today's leading designers. I'm your host Patricia Reines and today I am joined by the remarkable talented Sarah Tan.

Sarah began her career as a communication designer but quickly pivoted through her personal projects into the field of AR and VR. And today she's making significant strides at Atlassian, focusing on AI solutions,

But not only that, Sarah is also a dynamic force on LinkedIn and other social media platforms and she's also a thought leader and a speaker who really likes to share and inspire other designers in the tech space.

So join us as we are exploring Sarah's inspiring journey and take a look into the way how she really crafted a future-focused career in UX. This episode is for everyone interested in the intersection of design, technology and also personal growth, I would say.

Get ready to be inspired and enjoy this podcast episode. Hi, Sarah. Welcome to the Future of Your Ex podcast. Hi. Hi. So happy to be here and thanks so much for having me. Of course, I'm so excited that you're here and that we are diving into a lot of career and...

personal topics that are super important for your ex-designers, how to build a successful career, especially in the future space where you are currently based. Super exciting. Before we are diving into that, Sarah, please introduce yourself, talk a little bit about what are you doing and how you got to where you are at the moment. Sounds good. So for starters, my name is Sarah and so nice to be here.

And so currently I work at Elastigian as a product designer and I am currently working on designing AI features for developers. So basically the big question is how do we design AI features to make developers workflow easier? So that's what I'm currently doing right now.

And on the side, I do a lot of AR/VR innovation, design projects as well. So that includes creating what the client wants to do in terms of AR/VR, hosting workshops, giving online courses and so on and so forth. So quite a variety in the whole AR/VR space. And to backtrack a little bit, so I have a degree in communications design.

And how I basically came about to this space is that I was studying and I was actually an international student in Australia and I originally came from Malaysia. And back on that for a little bit, but I mean, I come back to that after a little bit, but basically after graduation, I got my first job at Google.

where I was in the Creative Lab department. And basically what Creative Lab does is that we use Google's technology and we apply it to experiences that delight the users and give a fresh new light on how Google technology can be used. And it can be in the arts and culture space. It can be day-to-day innovation. So it's quite varied.

And when I was there during my time at Google, we were the AI or the AR trajectory is super hyped up at the moment. So at the point it was like Pokemon Go was released. Yeah, Pokemon Go was such in the trend, so popular and everyone's catching Pokemon. So I love it so much.

And so the AR trajectory just went skyrocket. And then we decided to, why not just see what we can do in AR and innovate in this space.

And at that time, Google has a SDK called ARCore. So we use ARCore to innovate a lot of our projects. So that's pretty cool. And that is my first entry point into AR. And then subsequently, the whole XR industry came about as well.

And what I love most about it as a visual designer is that it's just so interactive and so immersive to be having a platform that is so amazing. And you can just invest in so much graphics and visuals and audios as well. So it's really interesting. So after that, I just continued freelancing as an AR VR designer, worked with a couple of brands, Adobe, Amazon, and NASA, and so on and so forth.

And then I've also kind of slowly developed this other side, which is my UX design and product design skill sets. And I feel both of them marry together quite well to figure out what's the innovation of technology, you know, innovation of this new emerging space and also how users experience these new technologies even easier. So that's a very short snapshot about my story so far.

Yeah, super cool. Thanks for the intro, Sarah. I think super inspiring and I can relate so much with your story. I feel like my story has been so similar, you know, also moving from visual design to AR, VR, and then now working with AI. So I think super, super inspiring. Maybe you can...

share a little bit about some tips and tricks for the listeners, because I know that there are also some people listening who are currently in the visual design space, graphic designers who want to move to UX, would also like to move into maybe future tech topics like AI or mixed reality things. What are maybe two or three learnings that you had on the way that you would recommend people if they want to do, I don't know, go to a similar path?

Nice. I love that so much. So I really love that question. And I think I could share a few learnings along the way in terms of getting to this new space. And I feel the first learning that I have is just constantly experimenting with it.

So I feel for the past few years, so many amazing software has been produced. And I feel one after the other, like focusing more on the user interface of the software and super easy to use. So for example, things like Metaspark, things Unity, Unreal Engine. I feel those, a lot of the programs that are starting to come out that really simplify, they provide so much tutorials.

so much ease of use in terms of getting someone to go into those platforms. And I feel through the development of those platforms, that's how I got to experiment a lot with it. Starting off, I would follow tutorials online about how to create my first AR app or like how do I create some Instagram filters that I can play with as a non-technical background person.

And so experiment a lot, just got me into the groove and got me to prototype my first few AR experiences. So that is pretty fun to learn and also a great way to just dive into it straight away. And

I mentioned briefly about my experiences growing up in Malaysia as well and moving to Australia alone as an international student at 18 years old. And I feel that whole experience of moving to a new country and always like kind of going to the unknown and sorting my way out. I feel that is also the same mindset that I bring to a lot of this emerging technologies industry.

So especially with emerging technologies, it's so new. There's so much things you have to figure out on the way. So it's one step at a time, seeing how, you know, try something new and if it doesn't work out, then you try other things and it works out. Then that's amazing to see that it works out. So just being like okay with the unknown and like going past your comfort zone to learn about all these things. And I was surprised.

I would say the second learning that I have is definitely taking inspiration from a lot of the things out there that have progressed really well and advanced as well. So for example, looking at the industry leaders in this space, like what are they currently doing?

and how are they currently designing their AR VR experiences or even what are the new innovations in this whole AR VR land as well. If there's new applications or new problems to solve and how they are solving them. Lots of market trends and seeing what are the good things to solve outside in the world. And I would say the third one is definitely

Kind of knowing that like you as a person have something to contribute in this emerging technology space.

So for example, I think a lot of people come into it might feel like, "Oh, I'm lagging behind." And there's so many people already figured things out. But I think it's really great that being in this industry of concerning the future and innovation is that it's really important for new people to come in with fresh perspectives and also slowly figure things out together.

I feel like, you know, with news perspective and also new ways to solve things, it could really propel innovation to go a bit faster as well in the industry.

I think that's my top three learnings in a nutshell. Yeah. Awesome. Thank you so much. I think it makes so much sense, right? I mean, I heard this all the time and people say like, oh, you know, I feel so lost. All the people have already figured it out. But the truth is no one has figured it out, right? You need to figure it out together. And although it gets a little bit easier, the more advanced you are, there's still a lot of uncertainty and a lot of things that you don't know where you need to rethink the

your strategies, your methods, the tools that you're using constantly, right? And I must say, I also really love the tip of starting with personal projects because this is also something that I'm hearing a lot when it comes to AI.

And many companies, it's allowed to use AI tools, right? Like TGPT or Gemini or something like that. And I always say the best thing that you can do is start with personal projects, right? And it's so interesting that this was also the thing that helped you in the end to move into the space. Just have curiosity and then explore, try things out and build your expertise basically with personal projects. I think that's definitely super inspiring.

So I think this is a good takeaway also for our listeners. If you are not so happy with your work situation or where you are, just start slowly working on your own projects on the side. And then people might hire you for that or you might find job opportunities your way.

But for you, currently you're working with a lot of AI methods and tools. I mean, you mentioned that you're working on AI solutions for developers. How did you got into this position? So how did you move from basically AR, VR to AI?

Yes, yes, that's a good question. So basically the whole time when I was building up my whole AR VR site projects and innovations on the site, I've been working on a lot of digital experiences. So this could be for consumers, could be business to business, softwares. So all kinds of softwares out there. And how I went into AI was interesting.

Actually quite a coincidence. So I feel these days, because AI is such a hot topic right now, and there's so much space for innovation in AI. So naturally my company have been investing a lot of like resources into AI and seeing how this AI space could take off that's relevant for us.

So I would say it's just quite a natural, gradual focus to be like, oh, okay. Curiosity. Yes, definitely. Cool. Yeah. How's that going? I mean, working with AI at the moment is definitely a hot topic. What are some of the learnings or how do you approach AI? How does it differ from building a natural product or a typical UX digital product?

I like that question. So basically, how I find designing for AI compared to designing for any other software or typical digital experiences is that I feel it's really different, but the core principle still stays.

So for example, some core principles like, you know, how important user testing is and how important like, you know, content design, how to instruct the users and how to let them know what to expect and all these sorts of things. And I feel with AI is a lot of that. I think first impressions as I was designing and being in this AI space, I've noticed a lot of emphasis on

Because I feel like the outcome of AI is not very predictable at the moment. So, for example, if let's say I'm a user and I type in an input, I feel compared to so many users, you get so many different inputs that is relevant to the user. And so it's so...

unpredictable in terms of what the user will see as an answer. So I feel there's a lot of guardrails where UX can kind of form to make sure that whatever answers that they get is relevant and personalized to them. So some examples would be making sure that the trust is there, that they trust the AI that they're using and making sure that we design around that trust.

So things telling them where the data come from and like, you know, this data we come from here, this is where we refer to give you these answers.

And also making sure that, you know, just making sure that the users are very comfortable along the way, not really freaking them out, but having very progressive, very progressive like steps on like, okay, great. This is your input. This is your answer. And this is where we refer them from. And this is what you can do with it kind of thing. It's a lot on...

predicting what the users will do. We have to think sometimes 10 steps ahead of the user. What would they expect? What should they expect? And how do we design around that expectations as well? I would say there's a lot of thinking ahead and hopefully meeting where the users expect. But at the same time, there's a lot of uncertainty in this space and definitely a lot of user testing and experiments and also data that we need to make sure it's

and add quality and also making sure that the expectation is good for the user to expect the outcome. Makes sense. I really like that you focus on basically taking the user by the hand and helping them also to understand what is going on. Because with AI, although we put a lot of focus on it, we know what it is, we know how it works.

Many people don't. I mean, you are working with developers, so I assume they're a little bit more likely to understand what is going on. But it really depends on the user base that you're talking to, how much knowledge they actually have. And helping them to understand is, I think, an amazing tip when it comes to AI, thinking ahead and then helping them to understand this is the input, this is the output, this is what you can do with it. I think this is an amazing tip. Super helpful. Okay.

So when you think about, or no, let's start somewhere else. So you're someone, I think, which is very inspiring also for me, or I think for a lot of women out there, you're someone who's someone who's very like, who has a lot of courage to try things out, to present themselves online. You build a really strong personal branding online. And I think you're also recognized by a lot of companies and organizations, which is super inspiring.

What kind of tips would you have also maybe for women who want to show themselves or also want to be seen and try things out and get their voice heard, basically? What are your tips?

Chips for building a personal brand online. And thank you so much for your kind words as well. Initially, when I started building up my personal brand, I was also really scared. I was like really scared of being judged and how my online content would be perceived. And yeah, just all the fears surrounding it that makes me quite paralyzed in building my personal brand online.

But I think one thing that I have slowly learned in the industry as well is that I feel if you don't put yourself out there, there's no chance for other people to know about your work and what you do and also the potential of how much you can contribute to the industry.

And I feel this is because I have posted some stuff online before and I feel if I didn't post it, there were so many opportunities that I could have missed out on. So I'll probably share a little bit of a story about one of my postings that really changed the trajectory of my career. So one time I was

really struggling. I was moving to a new city and I was figuring out everything including public transport and stuff.

And this was in Sydney. And when I found out that, oh, wow, there's so much train lines going on and it's just so hard to navigate around the station. I have thought about using AR and what I know from the prototyping softwares that I have mentioned to create a little AR train map that would appear on my transport card.

So I was thinking about the idea and I was like, oh, why not? I just prototype it out, film a video about it and post it on LinkedIn. And I posted on LinkedIn without thinking that it will happen. And like suddenly everything just blew up. Like that's almost a million views. The national news picked up on it as well. And it was featured on TV. And yeah.

Yes. Oh, yes. And it was so crazy. Even I was invited to give a talk at Meta as well. And then like was demoing this experience because I was using their program at that time. So it all went pretty crazy. And that didn't happen if I didn't have posted online. And if I have like, if I have talked about the fear, I wouldn't even have launched it online and all this outcome would have came.

which I feel really, really boosted my trajectory in the AR real space. And I feel what you mentioned about women in tech as well. Definitely, I feel the same way. There's so many things and with a male-dominated industry as well, it's so hard for women to stand out sometimes.

And I think I always go back to that whole story and incident again. It's like, if you have never put yourself out there, you never know the outcome of it. And one of the things that I really love thinking about is the butterfly effect as well. The butterfly effect is basically really small actions could lead to really big outcomes.

And I really feel posting online and putting yourself out there and also building personal branding has a lot of similarities to the butterfly effect. Maybe a post that you post two years ago would have big outcomes for you five years later. And you never know who out there is watching you. And online is such a big place as well. There's always so much opportunities out there.

It's always, I'm always reminded of, you know, the opportunities out there, what I can take from those opportunities. And, you know, it's like if you never post online or if you don't really show yourself online in terms of the work you're proud of or things that you learn, I feel there's always like

There's always potential for you out there to continue growing. And I feel like you can always help others, but also help yourself as well in terms of accelerating what you're working on and finding the right people to work with you or even inspiring other people to join you in the journey. So I feel there's a lot of benefits all around of doing these things. So it's like a win-win situation for everyone. Yeah.

I agree. I think such an inspiring story, right? Like out of this very small thing can happen crazy things. It's unbelievable. And we are so lucky that we are living in a time where it's very easy to find people, to show what you are interested in, to ask questions, to connect, to show your work online. You know, imagine like 100 years ago,

Like, how would that work, right? You would need someone probably to post it in a newspaper or so. But if you don't know someone, like, your work would be lost everywhere. So I think super inspiring story. And I think a good reminder for also for maybe junior designers or people who are very early in their career.

to share the process, not about the perfect result, but also about work in progress, what they're working on, their thoughts and these kinds of things. So you're in the space for quite some time now, and I'm also really curious about what you think about the future. So what are your, what's your perspective on the future, especially for designers, UX designers? What do you think will become very important? What are the skills that will become very important? And what are your tips?

Lots of questions. Yeah, I love that. Yes, I think probably to answer the first part where like, what will the future be? I feel like at this moment of time, there's just so much new technology that's coming out. Like before AI, there was a web tree, there was crypto, and

And then you get the whole metaverse coming out. And then AR, VR started having new headsets and hardware that's really cool. And then now there's AI. So there's still so much, so much changes happening in the last five years or so, which is pretty crazy to think about. Yes, yes, insane.

And I feel like what's important for us as UX designers is that I think firstly is to kind of think about how users, what you mentioned before, like, you know, people who are not really familiar with AI, how do we get them to be more familiar with it and trust this technology?

process more through design. And I feel like there's such a big need to keep making sure that, you know, everyone is safe and everyone is, you give the context to the users to know what they're doing and what to expect and not to kind of like introduce doubt patterns so that they are unaware about what's happening. So I feel that's probably one of the components.

I think the second component is the application of these technologies as well.

Because I feel the applications of technology, I feel that's really going to determine what's going to stick from two years to come. Like, for example, right now, AI, we have found so many applications for it. ChatGVT, helping out with like all these questions and texts. And so many people have found so many unique applications. Image Generation, there's AI as well.

Even VR is applications, the big applications so far for gaming. But AR is also something that people are figuring out what the application is.

And I feel that application and the user adoption drives what's going to stick and where the investment is coming. And therefore, that's the most likely thing that UX designers will come and design and also determine about what is the user experience and what's the great application for this technology.

So that's the second one. Yeah, the third one regarding tips and tricks. I think definitely with so much things going on in the industry, technology and advances and so many companies doing really cool things at the moment, it's so important for us

aspects designers or people in the tech space to really figure out what are these technologies, how do they work, how do they be applied to day-to-day lives, or how even they, how they solve certain problems in the industry as well.

I think those are really important. I feel like me coming from a background that's non-technical, I don't need to learn too much deep into the technical space, but I need to know enough to see what's out there, what's the potential of it, and also designing for it as well. I think that is my three things about the future of X and technology and tips and tricks on how to navigate this crazy scene at the moment.

crazy describes it so well thank you Sarah thank you so much for sharing it I think super inspiring where can people find you when they want to reach out connect what's the best place to reach you sure thank you so much for the question so I think definitely our main site is LinkedIn so my LinkedIn is SarahJuen10

And my second platform is my Instagram. So my Instagram, which is Sarah Tan with two extra Ns at the back as well. So those are some platforms that I post most of my like little videos and little ARVL prototypes and coming talks and everything. And

And I think those are the two main profiles that I'm active in. Awesome. I'm also active on TikTok as well. On TikTok, okay. I mean, I can add all the social profiles that you want in the description box later so people can check it out, connect with you, see what you're doing, follow your work and get inspired by everything that you're doing.

So Sarah, thank you so much for being on the podcast, sharing your story, your career, a lot of tangible tips and tricks for the listeners. So thank you so much for being here. Thank you so much as well. And thank you so much for having me. Such a great time and good to share this with everyone. I totally agree. Thank you so much. And bye bye, everyone.

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