Tesla Cybertruck Beta, Ford joins EV price war, Equinox EV, and more
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And we are live, everyone, for a new episode of the Electric Podcast. I am Fred Lambert, your host. And as usual, I'm joined by Seth Wintraub, co-founder and publisher of Electric. How are you doing today, Seth? I'm good. All right. So hopefully we have a little more things to play with this episode, a little bit update to...

what's it called stream yard so we're just playing with a few things uh uh if you have any feedback don't hesitate to send it our way because uh we are live in all the comment section right now uh whether you're on youtube facebook lincoln twitter and anything else we're live on i don't think so that's uh this episode yeah which one that's it we're not we're not on twitter or on twitch yet but oh yeah we should be on twitch why not yeah i know yeah all right um

This episode is sponsored by SAE International. Join the mobility community in Detroit from April 18th to the 20th for WCX, the largest technical mobility event in North America. You can register right now if you go into the show notes right here. We have a link in the show notes. And we're going to have a little bit more to say about SAE International and WCX later on the show. So stay tuned for that.

But thanks, SAE, for sponsoring this week's episode of The Electric Podcast.

All right, plenty to talk about this week. We're going to start, as usual, with a couple of Tesla news, and then we have plenty of non-Tesla news this week to discuss. But as usual, we want to hear from you guys too. So if you have any questions, any comments, any subjects you want us to discuss about the EV community and especially the news this week, please don't hesitate to send it our way in the comment section. All right, first off, Cybertruck beta. So we were just talking about that last week too, like Seth was complaining, like, oh, we don't see enough beta.

prototypes in the wild, especially with production starting relatively soon. I think it's starting set. I think this is the first one. And then I think we're going to see a bunch of new prototypes on the road. So keep an eye out for that, especially if you're like in the Bay Area or Texas or I mean, that's probably the two main areas, but they've been known to get around a little bit. So this was spotted by

Flavio Tranzano posted on Instagram the prototype was in Palo Alto, so near Testas headquarters, sorry, this is former headquarters in California. And so why we say it's a beta prototype, I mean, we had to guess a little bit at first, but then Elon ended up confirming it. The main thing that we could tell was, first of all, it's not the same prototype as the last one we saw, the alpha builds, I guess, that you would call those.

So the tunnel cover here is there, first of all, and it wasn't before. And it looks to be functional. It looks like it's three quarters the way up or something like that. So it looks like it's an actual functioning one. Before that, it wasn't the same thing. So this tunnel cover is, of course, the one that Elon claims you can walk on and stand on. He stood on it. Was it the Jillian O'Shaw, I think, or not? Yeah.

And also the rear windows looks like functioning one too wasn't the case in the previous bill. But the thing that's going to catch your eye obviously is this little triangular sign mirror which wasn't there before. So obviously Tesla has been aiming to not have any sign mirrors on a Cybertruck. They want to use cameras and screens inside the vehicle. But that's not legal in the U.S. yet.

as per NHTSA rules. But before that, the prototypes had the big square rectangular mirrors that you used to see on trucks. And there's a reason why pickup trucks have bigger mirrors because you kind of need them to be able to see behind you, especially if you're going to be towing trailers and stuff.

You need bigger mirrors. So people are looking at that like that should not be a side mirror that you see on a truck that size. But then Elon confirmed what he previously said that these mirrors are going to be removable. So I mean, the top part of the mirror is going to be removable because the

it's still going to have a little piece that's going to stick out as long as it is right now, just for the camera at the end to be able to look back. But by removing the mirror part of it, and already this mirror is going to be a lot more efficient than a side mirror that you're going to see on the

on the average pickup truck, because like I said, they normally are much bigger. So if you just don't want any trouble with like-- don't want to get stopped by the cops for whatever reason, you could keep those mirrors on and don't really use them as mirror. Just use the camera that looks back and feeds into the screens inside your truck. Or you could remove the mirror part altogether, have the exact same experience basically, but with a little efficiency gain.

Well, a little compared to the smaller mirror, but a big one compared to if Tesla was to implement just a regular truck mirror, which again are pretty huge. So Elon confirmed that that's going to be removable by the owner. And I don't know exactly. I need to look into the Nitsa rule on that because Elon seems to suggest that if the owner is completely allowed to remove their mirrors, which is a bit surprising to me. But there's a quick video on it too here. I'm going to have to skip on this one.

So you can see this is the exact same beta build here. The same people that caught it, they followed it a little bit. And it is true that it looks CGI almost. It doesn't look like something that you'd see on the road. So it's going to be interesting when there's going to be hundreds of thousands of them around. If we're really going to get used to that scene. That look, yeah. It's crazy. Yeah.

Every time I see it, I'm like, I can't believe they're really going to do this thing. Sometimes I like it. Sometimes I don't like it. Like some angles are good. Some angles are bad. Without those kind of futuristic hubcaps, it definitely has a different look about it. Almost more normal? More normal, but like not like regular wheels on that thing don't look like they belong there. So I wonder if the final product is going to have hubcaps like that.

Yeah, maybe like the Model 3, they have upcaps so you can remove them. But doesn't it look a little bit bulkier to you? The back especially looks like the angle is a bit different from the... You don't see my mouse now for some reason with the new update. But yeah, it looks like the B pillar would be a little bit higher than it used to, making it like a sharper slope in the back into the bed.

Oh, maybe. It looks higher and or shorter, like one or the other. Of course, it goes together. If it is higher, it makes it look shorter. But it's interesting. Anyway, I expect that because, of course, Tesla confirmed last week that they have a bunch of Cybertruck builds right now, beta builds, which is the last step before the pre-production builds and then the production builds.

So second to last step from production, I should say. And I mean, Tesla has varied a lot in terms of, yeah, this sharing thing is not working as well as it used to before the update. I'm having some issues here trying to back away, but...

Anyway, let me finish my thought here. Tesla has had different numbers of beta bills for different vehicle programs, like hundreds most of the times. It gets into the hundreds. Of course, some of them won't be tested on public roads. Some of them are tested in private proving grounds. Some of them are just tested...

in a completely controlled environment. So, but still we expect that a lot of them are going to be tested on public roads. So if you see any of them, make sure to take some pictures and send them our way. Cause we're always curious to see any, any changes because this is very close to where it's going to be in production, but not completely. So as things move along, we might see some changes. That's going to be very interesting. What do you think of the rear lights? Yeah. Small, right? Yeah. Really small.

Yeah. I'm more curious than the front lights because the front lighting has changed a lot for the Cybertruck since the early prototype. I think it was not legal, the first one, like the first complete bar that they had. Yeah, the light bar's gone. Yeah. I really cannot... I need to stop sharing, I guess, and then go back. It doesn't work exactly the same since the update, I guess. You're going to have to figure that out. Sorry, folks, because...

This update kind of sprung on us today. All right, back in. On top of the Cybertruck being spotted, another Model 3 refresh has been spotted, the so-called Project Highland. So the Tesla updating the Model 3 quite significantly because you see...

You don't see a lot of camouflage from Tesla. A lot of other automakers, they love to use camouflage on their prototypes. Not so much this one, this type of just literally hiding some fabric on top of the vehicle. Normally, they'll use a wrap that has...

some weird pattern and when you take a picture of it, like you don't really see the lines as well. So Tesla is literally just putting a bunch of fabric in the front and the back which seems to be the only place that have been updated because otherwise when you look at it, it's not clear what's new. Here's a closer look at the picture from the front end. So the front end is expected to be the one with a bigger update here and it's super hard to tell here but the headlights are supposed to be updated and

The front fascia also supposed to have an update. It looks maybe a little bit sharper, the slope here, but again, super hard to tell with that camouflage. Yeah, I was going to say the same.

Other than that, obviously, it's supposed to have the hardware for autopilot and self-driving, which should be on the bill any day now. Tesla said it was in January, but it didn't come in January, so it could be any day. And the biggest update is all supposed to be under the hood, really. Not necessarily the powertrain, but Tesla is expected to bring a lot of these big casting technology to the Model 3. So most of those technologies have been introduced to the Model Y.

and Tesla has been reticent to bring even though the

as proven to be extremely efficient and a better way to manufacture, improve ease of manufacture, reduce cost, better rigidity of the body and all that, like just benefits basically. But bringing it to the Model 3, they've been a bit reticent because that would be a big update to the production line. And if you have a big update to the production line, you're going to have to shut it down for a while. And of course, over the last two years, Model 3 was still a

big player in Tesla's lineup in terms of volume. But now with the Model Y taking over with over a million production capacity lately, it's starting to be like good timing, a better timing to reduce them, to switch them all through to these bigger casting pieces, especially the rear and the front. But it's still going to affect Tesla's production for sure. The production line are currently being deployed. We don't have exact timing on when this new version is going to be released, but...

I would expect in the coming months, definitely, probably around mid-year. All right, the Norwegian released...

their big winter range test. So they do that every year now for the last few years. And it's very interesting because they have access to more electric vehicles than any other country, any other market, because most automakers, they release their electric vehicles there first because that's basically the only thing that sells there right now. Literally, like, they sell... I think they might sell, like, less than 100 gas-powered vehicles a month there in Norway, which is insane for a country that size. But, yeah, yeah.

So we've been tracking these tests that they've been doing there at colder temperature, obviously, in this case, minus 5 C to minus 10 C Celsius. And they've been using this loop here between, I'm not going to try to pronounce that, but between Oslo and north of Lillehammer, those two only names that I can pronounce from Norwegian cities.

And this year, what was interesting is that the Model S was on, for the first time, the refreshed Model S was on the test because of course, Europe has been deprived of the Tesla Model S for two years now because of the refresh. So the latest generation Model S came into play and it stole the show because it broke every record.

for winter range driving and truly impressive here, especially if tested at minus 5 to minus 10 Celsius because the WLTP range, so that's the advertised range there, is 634 kilometers and it came in at 530 at that temperature. So a 16% deviation from the advertised range, which again, the WLTP is also

It's somewhat lax of a standard, not the most rigid one, let's say. And it's just a 16% deviation. It's very good. It's basically what I would expect in the summer, and now it's in the winter. Of course, it's minus 5 to minus 10, which is like normal,

northern winter temperature. Right now, if they were doing the test right now in North America, it would be a different story. Here in Shawinigan, it's minus 30 right now Celsius, which I think is like minus 40 Fahrenheit. It's actually high 30s.

High 30s, yeah. With the wind factor, it's minus 50 right now. And that's minus 58 Fahrenheit. Right. Which is pretty crazy. In those temperatures, even with a Tesla, I would expect a 40 to even maybe 50% deviation for the advertised range. So keep that in mind if you're driving this weekend in the Northeast.

But yeah, like if you compare it with the Mercedes EQE 300, which is the closest competitor to the Model S standard, I don't think we call it standard anymore, but the base Model S, let's say the refresh version.

get 614 kilometers of WTP range and got a 33% deviation from that range, only managed to get to 409. And what's interesting about this test here is that my understanding is that they drive the car until it just doesn't work anymore. They're not careful about it. They don't drive it until it gets to zero, but then you have the buffer. They drive it until they need to tow it. Yeah.

It's that bad. But it gives you a through idea of the actual range because that's actually how it's tested for the advertised range, I should say. But obviously, you should not do that. But you never have to do that anyway because unless you're just driving for driving, but if you're driving to a specific location and you have... Because the range XAD is all about how precise is your range prediction rather than your actual overall range.

Model X Plaid also get pretty good at 18% deviation, still got 444 miles of range. And the Plaid obviously is a little bit less efficient than the standard version. The i4, sorry? It's kilometers, right? Yeah, it's all kilometers. For the Model S, I did change it to miles. 329 miles was the miles that it achieved.

Basically, it's the only vehicle that got over 450 kilometers, 280 miles.

But yeah, if you look, I mean, this is a completely independent test. It's not a test sponsored by Tesla or anything like that. And Tesla looks great on it because the Model S and the Model X are the only ones of the premium EVs getting under a 20% deviation range. You got a lot of high 20s, a few 30s.

You get a few under 20 at the bottom here like the Kia EV. They went with the GT version though. I would have liked to have seen the non-GT version because I think that would have performed pretty well. So the GT version only get 424 kilometers of WLTP range and it got a 17.6% deviation. So not as good as Tesla but pretty damn close.

So if it was like the long range version, probably would have getting close to the four. No, it would probably maybe not 450, but close to it. And they obviously don't get the lucid air over there. So no, not yet. How does that do in the winter? Do we have any like...

I don't think they have much deliveries in the Northeast yet. I think most of the deliveries are still focused in California and all that. But they just opened one in Montreal. They invited me to come to the store opening in Montreal. I'm like, I don't think I'm going to drive all the way to Montreal for a store opening. But if you do have one to loan me for a few weeks so I can test them in the winter, I would love to get winter impressions of the Lucid Air. And guess what was their answer? No.

crickets. Crickets. It's a shame because I'm sure people are curious. What's up with this? No, it's working. All right. Moving on. This just came out today. There was an update to the IRS's rule for eligibility to the $7,500 EV tax credit. So it's something that we reported a few weeks ago when the list came out.

for the new year because the tax relief went into effect. And we were kind of concerned about the way it was laid out because

They were talking about the Model Y, specifically in the Mach-E, the two main ones that were at issue here, not being considered SUVs, which is a problem because SUVs and pickup trucks get an $80,000 price limit on the MSRP versus $55,000 for non-SUVs and pickup, mainly like sedans and I guess crossover, which you could make the argument, I guess it's a crossover, but where it became like...

I wouldn't mind because obviously $80,000 is a generous price limit, I think, for an incentive on electric vehicles because it does sort of incentivize luxury vehicles. I'm not exactly a fan of that, but it does make more sense for SUVs and pickup trucks, especially if they're used for their intended use. I'm not talking about like...

Just some dude that just drives around in a pickup truck without ever carrying anything in it, that's still inefficient to use, whether it's electric or not. But if you have a Model Y and you're using it to move your family around, if there's like four, five, six, seven people in the car, it's efficient. So it's worth paying a little bit more. And if you go electric, you have the efficiency gain there.

But again, I would be fine if the rule applied to everything equal, but then you had like vehicles like the Lincoln plug-in hybrids getting the full tax credit at $80,000 price limit just because it's heavier. So it looked like they were basing it on the gross vehicle weight rating to be over 6,000 pounds. And even though the carrying capacity could be the same if the vehicle was lighter itself,

you lost access to the full credit. It made no sense. So the Model Y, other than a seven-seater version, and the Model, the Mach-E, were limited to the $55,000 price limit, which was a bigger problem a few weeks ago before the price cuts, but less of a problem now. But still, the IRS corrected that and they updated their list and now the

model y old version of the model y whether it's uh they actually they remove the seven-seater thing now you just talk about the all-wheel drive long range and performance which are the three version available they all have an sorry they all have an eighty thousand dollar msrp limit now same goes for the mustang nike so good news all around for uh people that are looking to buy that car and are eligible because of course the

Eligibility criteria are not just for the vehicles, but they're also for the buyers, meaning that you need to have an income of less than $150,000 a year if you're a single filer or $300,000 a year if you're a dual filer. Is that how you say that? A dual filer? Yeah, filer. It might not be StreamYard. It might be my Chrome that's just being super laggy in terms of...

Backing. Moving around. Yeah. Or maybe not. Maybe if I stop sharing, it's going to help. Yep. Actually, it does. So no, that's the stream yard. That's being a little weirdo for some reason. I'm going to be right back in in a second. There you go.

Next piece of news I want to discuss is this new study from the S&P Global coming out with customer retention rate and loyalty, basically, more specifically for what they call the nomad buyers. So the buyers that are not already linked to a specific brand, which is quite a large percentage of the new car buyers population.

So a lot of new car buyers, like they have their brand and they stick to their brand. And for whatever reason it is, uh, could be a multitude of it. Uh, so brand loyalty is obviously extremely powerful in, uh, the auto industry. So it is something that is worth looking at when you look at the EV revolution, because new electric vehicles, brands and existing brands looking to go into electric vehicles have to consider it in, in their marketing, uh,

So it's a big part of going electric. And Tesla is obviously an interesting case study here because it is a newer brand. They don't have a lot of data on Rivian and Lucid and all those because literally they started delivering like 12 months ago. So there's not any relevant data. But Tesla, even though it's not as new, like 10 years old at this point, they've been delivering a lot of cars or significant numbers of cars.

There's enough data that's worth looking into, but it is also new enough that these Nomad buyers, the first-time buyers in that brand, there's a lot of it, obviously.

On top of that, they also separate the Nomads into the one and done, which is the people that are buying a car for the first time, a brand for the first time, and then they don't go back to it. So they call that one and done. So looking at those two specific categories of Nomads, well, regular Nomads and one and dones, they came out with Tesla being on top of every other brand here, basically.

So you can see here the share of Loyalist Conquest. So that's where you want to be. And Tesla is leading the pack here, even in front of extremely well-established. As you can see, the first few, the top brands are more like premium brands.

Just like that. People that buy BMWs generally keep buying BMWs. Same thing for Mercedes, Audi. And then the more affordable brand that's still on top is Toyota. And that has been due to their reliability.

um people love that similar thing for volkswagen and then it starts going down and you have the buick the gmcs and the cadillacs that are at the bottom of that rankings but tesla is at the top and with a significant margins too so that's that's impressive and a good sign for tesla basically if you look at it the one and done rate at tesla and again not perfect because tesla is so new that

A lot of one and done, they just might still have the car. They haven't moved on yet. But still, you have to look with the discrepancy with the average of the industry. And the discrepancy could be even higher in the future as these people come back to the market and possibly stick to Tesla. So the rate is 39% compared to 58% to any industry. So that's a big difference here.

And yeah, I think it's an interesting thing to look at because when you combine the loyalty rate with Tesla buyers, with the fact that Tesla is delivering more volume than anyone by a wide margin when it comes to electric vehicles, you have a problem where Tesla is conquering all the mind shares basically in the EV industry. And it's going to be harder and harder for other brands to

to go get those buyers because of the satisfaction rate, which is the highest in the industry for Tesla and the consequent loyalty rate.

And obviously, I think there's a lot of specific features of Tesla vehicles that go into that. I listed us on the supercharger network, I think is the biggest one. Hopefully, that will subsidize over the next few years as other third-party network becomes more reliable, becomes bigger, wider appeal. And that's also opening a supercharger network to other EVs, which is supposed to come in any day now in North America and already happening in Europe and other markets. So...

This will maybe level the playing field a little bit, which is going to be nice for the rest of the industry. But also, I think the user interface is just a next level for Tesla. And if you get used to it, going back to a Ford or a BMW or whatever, it gets hard. Unless you're a fan of like Apple CarPlay and Android Auto and all that, that will give those automakers a bit of a hedge.

Tesla software update, obviously, like getting into your car in the morning and having a bunch of new features, that's awesome. That's more what people are used to with technology these days, especially like the Apple model has been very successful. And the last one that I'd like to mention too, and that would be also maybe a little bit more difficult for especially the established automakers to go into Tesla buyer conquest, is the direct-to-consumer model and the lack of third-party dealerships.

So most people I've talked to that are new car buyers, unless maybe like a few that are very friendly with their dealerships, for the most part, it's not a great experience to go to your dealership. So the fact that you can avoid that altogether by buying a Tesla or a Rivian and a Lucid, so they're good on that front. But compared to like a GM or a Ford or a Toyota, that's a big deal. Like if you're...

If you can avoid that altogether, I think it would be harder. Like right now, I would have issue like going back to a dealer with all my last three cars being Tesla vehicles, basically. What do you think, Seth? It's true. I didn't have a great experience ever going to a dealer. I think this time I informed the dealer that, you know, I was publisher of an auto website. So I got a good experience where maybe other people wouldn't have.

But it was pretty, it was fine. It was, what'd you say? I said cheater. Yeah, cheating. I know. And I kind of want to, you know, for a story, just get like the average user's experience. But I really, like, I really don't want to get an average user's experience because it's pretty horrible. When I had my mom get a Chevy Bolt,

the dealer decided to try to snooker and her into a $2,000 maintenance package, which I thought was like the lowest of the low. Like how, you know, how, how horrible of a person do you have to be to like, try to get, get in a woman to spend $2,000 on something that she doesn't need. Anyway, it dealers suck. Like, and it like the, the, even the, like the idea of going to a dealer is,

It's like, I would rather just get a Tesla or something. Yeah, it's just not an ideal experience all the way around. And also, just from the pricing standpoint, the fact that you can go to one dealer and not get the same price from the other dealer,

It's not if you can avoid that altogether and just like basically buy a car online. Obviously, I'm not saying that the online experience is the only one. Like I think Tesla, Rivian and Lucid, they need those physical location primarily for test drives. But the pricing aspect, and I know like we've discussed a lot of Tesla's pricing as a problem before.

But the problem is a different one, at least. It's not the fact that you can get a Tesla this price, this Tesla store, another price this one. It's more about the fact that it varies so much as a whole. But I would still prefer that to having to negotiate my way through a bunch of dealerships.

But yeah. And I think the legacy automakers realize that there's a big problem. Like, you know, we know Polestar has the end around where you don't really have to deal with dealers. Ford is making efforts to to bypass the dealers or at least like make the deal online. So when you go into the dealership, they can't surprise you or, you know, renegotiate something with you. So they're working on it. But.

But then that's just the buying experience from the dealers. Then you have the service experience. And that's also not something that's been looked at in a positive way for third-party dealership. Actually, it's probably the worst one because a lot of dealers, especially in the premium brands where Tesla operates, they've been known to...

and you go there for an oil change and then they find a bunch of things that they need to replace. And even if it's under a warranty, well, it's not a great business model for the automaker itself. So basically giving an edge for Tesla of servicing its own vehicle is

under warranty at the least. Even if you don't trust Tesla as a consumer, well, you can trust that Tesla is going to give itself the best deal. And by doing that, you get more profitable. By being more profitable, you can have either water margins or better costs for your customers. And hopefully that

especially with this EV price board that we've been talking about, it's going to result in better costs for customers. So these are all things that give Tesla a big edge. It's going to be hard for these giant companies, especially the ones that are late to the EV games like Toyota, to conquest, to go on the consumer conquest, really.

But I think that was our last Tesla News for today. Then we're going to jump into non-Tesla News in a few minutes. But before that, a quick word about our sponsor, SAE International and the WCX conference.

All right. This week's episode is sponsored by SAE International, host of the WCX World Congress Experience event. For 2023, WCX is set to return to Detroit from April 18th through 20th at Huntington Palace, Huntington Place, sorry,

As the largest technical mobility event in North America, WCX brings together thousands of engineers, suppliers, and mobility professionals to exchange ideas, discuss today's challenges, and build powerful relationships to move your career and the industry forward. Join the global mobility community in Motor City this April to stay up to date on the latest technological advances, participate in the roundtable discussions, and network with the brightest minds in the industry.

gain a competitive advantage and meet the people shaping the future of mobility. Visit WCX.SAE.org to register now.

All right. Thank you, SAE, for sponsoring the show this week. We have a few more news items to discuss, and then we're going to jump into the comments section. So I see already plenty of questions today. We appreciate those. We'll get to them in a few minutes. If you have more, we're going to have time for some more. So you can put in the comments section whether you're listening on YouTube, Facebook, Twitter, wherever you're watching. No, we don't see the questions. Never mind. Link it. And...

If you do enjoy the show, please give us a thumbs up right now. That helps the show more than you can think. And it takes a second and it's free to do. You can subscribe and get notification for the next time we go live. That's also super useful. And if you're listening to your podcast app right now, if you can give us a five-star review on Apple or whatever podcast app you're reading, that helps the show a ton. And we appreciate every single one of them. All right, let's get back to it.

IONIQ 6 are coming soon. EPA range has been unveiled ahead of the launch. And the efficiency, as we've been getting used to from Hyundai so far and Kia, is impressive. It rivals actually the Lucid Hair EVs, a much more premium vehicle. And all right, let's get into the details real quick right here. So...

Again, that's what I like also from Hyundai in the IONIQ series is the trims. Like, they give you a bunch of different trims. Like, you have all the options. You can have, like, all-wheel drive, rear-wheel drive, long range, short range on all the different powertrain. In this case, they also give us the wheel size, which we know affects the efficiency a lot. So, you get... So, this is from... Okay. Okay.

Rear-wheel drive option on 18-inch wheels and the long-range battery pack, 361 miles of EPA rating and MP, miles per gallon equivalent of 140. That's, yeah, that's top-notch. Really impressive. Yeah, top-notch, very good. It doesn't get better than this.

Then you have the IONIQ 6 all-wheel drive, again, with the long range and the 18-inch wheels. So with the all-wheel drive version, you lose some efficiency compared to the rear-wheel drive. A lot of efficiency. Yeah, a decent amount. You drop to 120 versus 140. 45 miles. Yeah, that was open 35 miles difference. Pretty significant. Then you can have the...

What do they call it? The SEL? So I guess it's just like the standard battery pack version. Is that it? I think that's just a premium package over the 18-inch. Okay, but can they all be the same battery pack? Yeah, I think they're all the same battery pack. They don't have the small battery pack like...

The Ioniq had. So just the luxury package with the 20-inch wheels will bring down the range from 361 to 305. Yeah. That's a bit surprising to me.

That's a big drop, 117 MPG, which is 140. Then the all-wheel drive version, you drop to 270 miles of range, 183 MPG. That's bad. That's pretty crazy. They go from incredible to bad efficiency, all-wheel drive, 20-inch wheels. Because 121 on the all-wheel drive, long-range, 18-inch wheels, that's actually decent. That's pretty good.

Then you have the limited version, Mibral Drive with 20-inch reel, 305. That has to be, right? No, it has to be different. Yeah, it has to be different packs there. No, it's the same as the other 20. Oh, no, you're right. Sorry, I misread that one. So 305, so basically the same range, same efficiency with the limited. So the limited has to be just a badge, basically, or something like that, which is often the case.

When is this coming into dealership starting this spring? This spring, you're going to see the IONIQ 6, which is a little bit more of a controversial design for some. I love it. I think it's even better than the IONIQ 5, I think. And I love the IONIQ 5 design. Yeah, I like it too. But some people are just hung up on that rear hand. I don't know.

I like it. It's got like Porsche vibes, maybe some Citroën kind of thing going on. That's a deep cut right there. Yeah. Sorry. All right. We kind of teased it last episode, but now it's officially out. The Mackie Price Cots.

So they have to do it. Well, they tell you they don't have to do it. They tell you that they're doing it because they're ramping up production and whatnot. But as we know, automakers sell cars for as much as they can sell it on the market. That's just how the capitalistic society we live in works.

But if you are to believe what Ford says, they say that they're ripping up production. I think I put the numbers in there. So they delivered just short of 40,000 units last year, but they have an overall capacity of 80,000 units globally. And they want to increase that to 130,000 units a year by the end of the year.

So that's a big ramp up. So it's going to help in pricing, but for the most part, I think they are trying to compete with Model Y, the big price cuts on the Model Y. And to be fair, the price cuts are a little bit less, but still significant. So the biggest one is the extended range version, the premium GD.

Does that make sense? Well, the extended range battery pack itself got a $1,600 price. So whatever model you want to have the extended range, it's $1,600 less.

But the big price cuts come from the California route, for example, one all-wheel drive version extended battery pack. I think that's the longest range version that they have. It sees a $5,500 price cut now starts at $58,000. Basically, the new price points are starting at $46,000 and going up to $64,000. Wow.

And obviously not all eligible to the $7,500 tax credit, at least until March. Then we're going to have to see with the new battery guidance, how Ford lands with those battery material requirements, which I have some concern on for Ford. We'll see. Maybe you're going to see the tax credit go from $7,500 to $3,750. But yeah,

Yeah, if you're in the market for a Mackey, I think right now is probably a good time to buy before March. Just my guess. Again, I don't know exactly. Maybe Ford doesn't know either at this point.

Still on Ford, some comment from the CEO about the next generation EV pickup truck. So as soon as Ford launched the Lightning, they were clear that this is very much their first attempt at making an electric pickup truck and that the next one is going to be like a big step forward with the new platform.

Also, the new production capacity, like all these new Ford Oval and these giant new factories that they're building, the volume is going to come with the next generation pickup truck. And so Mr. Farley said that we are deep in the development of our second generation EVs, including our next generation electric full-size pickup. These EVs will be fully software updatable,

That means a brand new electric architecture, and they're going to be radically simplified. Imagine three body style, each with volume potential of up to a million units, just a handful of orderable combinations. So basically, he's talking about electrifying Ford's pickup lineup, because that's what's pickup lineup is like.

they have like the f-150 and which a bunch of different configuration the 250 350 and all that and they all have extremely high production capacity in the millions well each and around a million i should say so he's basically saying that you're going to see that available on a pure ev platform and was there a timeline on that if i remember is like 2025 they're aiming this new platform

did he update that timeline i don't think so no i think it's still 2025. yeah 2025 is when the new platform comes uh fully software updatable too that's nice uh the the we know that ford needs to work a lot on that because a lot of automakers have been promising that like volkswagen has done it obviously um a few like established automakers i should say uh the the smart startup a bit of a hold on this but um

not software company and volkswagen has proven that times and times again right where you know the infotainment maybe is updatable and all that but then when you need to do an update to the powertrain uh to software update it's uh not the easiest thing in the world i mean you remember bolt ev also promised that it's going to be fully software updatable and then you have to like go download an update on a usb stick and plug into your car and all that and you're like what am i doing i know it's

It's very weird. And to this day, it's still not fully software upgradeable. Like eight years later. Yeah. Yeah. You know, Farley actually at the Christmas event or the holiday event was like, hey, I just got back from, you know, the development labs and we watched a car fully update all of its software, including, you know, its motor computer and everything else. So this was like, you know, a month ago. So yeah.

that that's the first time ford has ever yeah he was excited about it yeah it was the first time in development they've ever done it so yeah it's pretty new to them yeah when tesla's been doing it since 2012. it's a bit nuts all right um rivian some bad news well bad news actually probably some good news some bad news for for a few hundred people maybe a few thousand people

is that a new wave of layoffs has been announced this week amid serious cost concerns. So CEO RJ Scarange announced that 6% of the workforce is going to be laid off over the coming weeks in an attempt to control costs. And that's something we've been talking about with Rivian for a while now. We need to see cost improvements, otherwise there's just no way that they're going to succeed.

I know people always, they have $13 billion in the bank right now. That's nice, but you can burn into $13 billion pretty fast if you're selling a car for a third of what it costs you to make it. And that's literally what Rivian has been doing for a while now. And I wouldn't be so worried if I would see some significant improvements coming up, but we don't see that. So,

We need to see something. I pull up the numbers just for people always fighting back on that. They're like, hey, Tesla was the same. Tesla was not the same. It wasn't that crazy. So as the last Q3 report, Rivian brought in just over $500 million in revenue from selling a few thousand EVs, which is great.

But it caused them almost $1.5 billion to build them. And again, I'm not talking about operational costs, about investments, all that. I'm talking about purely the cost of building those goods. $1.5 billion to make half a billion worth of EVs. Not good. And then on top of it, they spent about $1 billion a quarter in operational costs. So make the math, that's losing about $2 billion a quarter. And...

So I think this quarter, or at least this earnings coming up on the 28th, I think on the 28th, they're going to release earnings. It's going to be a big one. It's going to be like a make or break one because they produced 10,000 vehicles in Q4. If there were no meaningful improvement in gross margin, that's going to be just a bloodbath of a quarter. Like they're going to lose a ton of money on that because before that, it was like 4,000 units a year and they were still losing a billion dollars just before operation costs.

So it's going to be a big one. If we don't see any meaningful improvement and with this wave of layoff coming early in 2023 and not last year, it could be an indication that they don't know what to do anymore to reduce the cost. It is worrying, for sure. Because

Because that's just one part of the business. They also need to expand their infrastructure, their service centers, their charging network and all that. That's a lot of money too. So this $13 million that investors keep coming back to as a way to reassure themselves, it's not going to be there for too long. Obviously, Rivian has a big advantage where they have deep-bucketed investors, namely Amazon.

But will Amazon want to invest in them? Right now, Amazon kind of has a sweet deal where they are buying 100,000 electric vans from Rivian,

I don't know, they're not disclosing the cost of it or what Amazon is paying, but Amazon is probably paying Rivian a third of what it costs Rivian to build a van. So it's actually a good deal for them. I don't know if that might be just worth the investment itself. All right, we have one last piece of news, and that's a quick new look at the Equinox EV that GM released this week.

Not many details. So this chart here that gives you the estimated range, again, not the official APA range. It's all... Why is it all available in 2024? Is it not coming this year? Yeah, it's coming this year, but it's a 2024 model. It's supposed to be in the fall. Yeah, but then that availability thing is wrong then because it's a spring 2024. Yeah, I agree it's a 2024 model, but okay. Yeah.

Anyway, that's not what's new anyway. It's this video here that gives us a quick look at the car here. So basically some new angles that we've seen since the prototype has been unveiled last year. I think it's not a bad looking car. No, it's sharp looking. Some bold vibes. I like the interior. I like that screen they have wrapped around. When we did see the Rivian, or sorry, when we did see the...

Equinox in person. It did have a plug in the back like a vehicle to load kind of thing. So hopefully that makes it to the final version. Yeah, I'm excited. I like the two tones too. The two tones is nice.

Actually, they just showed the purely gray one and I'm not mad at that either. You have a sunroof. I don't know if that's probably optional because 30,000 version. So that's what's nice. That's what I wanted the Bolt to be when it first released. Again, not now. I do enjoy the Bolt now for the value. But back in the day when it was like a $35,000, $40,000 car, I was like, eh, that doesn't feel like a

$35,000, $40,000 car. This is going to be a $30,000 to $40,000 car and it does feel like it, right? Yeah. It's a nice looking car inside and out. Well, it does feel like it. I mean, it does look like it. I shouldn't say feel. I haven't felt it just yet. But I'm enjoying what we see so far. Even like you said, the interior, those screens look good. Like the instrument cluster sort of extending into the center display.

That's a standard GM wheel here, Chevy wheel. The steering wheel always looks like that at GM. Or all this phone charging. Ooh, wow. Fancy. Yeah. So far, everything we've heard from the Equinox and we have seen from the Equinox points to them having quite a success on their hand. My biggest question with these vehicles is, is GM serious about making a lot of these? Like, are they going to have 100,000 available or are they making 20,000?

Well, if they want to hit that price point, they're going to have to make a ton of them, I think. I hope so. Yeah. Because otherwise, they're going to lose money on it like they did with the Bolt for years. Right. And you don't have a business if you don't make money selling your cars. Yeah. All right. Let's jump into the comments section. Oh, we have a new way to put the comments. Nice. Yeah. All right. Richard Cool says, talk a bit about your day-to-day experience driving your Tesla during Montreal winter. Yeah.

Yeah. Well, I'm not driving my car day to day, which is nice because I work from home. So it's not it's definitely not an ideal situation, but I do drive it long distance a lot because I do driving between Montreal and Shawinigan, which is my my main residence now. Well, not officially my main residence, but I spend a lot of time here now. And it is.

The winter, especially with Tesla, the one thing I don't like with Tesla, my friend just sent me in his ID4. My friend has a new ID4 and he sent me... He was driving back from work just now and it's minus 30 right now and he sent me

his car like showing only like 180 kilometers of range which looks bad like this is bad like it's not what the id4 should get but i prefer that to getting into my tesla telling me i have 400 kilometers of range and then as i drive for like 20 minutes or when i was supposed like driving it's about an hour and a half two hours between here and montreal um

Then I drive for 20 minutes and the 400 kilometers drops to like, oh, 250 kilometers or something like that. Makes no sense. So that's my main complaint about this. And they have improved that over the last few years. They have improved the range prediction quite a bit. But it's still not like there's a delay to it. And that can confuse you. So...

It's just more planning, basically. That's the only thing that you need when you're driving an electric vehicle, and especially a Tesla. But I would like a better range prediction with the cold. I'm curious, Avin. Today, it's minus 30, minus 50 with the wind factor, and it's going to be like that. I don't think I'm going to be driving today, but

I'm going to have to probably get out at some point tomorrow. I'm curious to see what my range looks like. The car is in the garage right now. Garage is a game changer too, obviously. If you're parking outside right now, even if you plug in, even if you have level 2, it's not too bad. But like in my condo, I don't have a garage. I'm plugging outside on 1101. If you're plugging outside on 1101 right now, you're not charging.

basically right you're just keeping your battery like from freezing yeah you might be able to uh keep it from freezing and doing the vampire drain whatever you want to call it yeah so i'm actually uh driving to vermont which has similar temperatures as you uh now and i'm either going to do it tonight or tomorrow and i can't decide which is worse

But we usually drive directly there. It's 180 miles. We get there pretty easily, even in the wintertime with a 300 mile Model 3 or Model Y. But to be safe this time, we're going to go through Albany. So that adds about 20 miles to our trip. But there's a supercharger in Albany that we'll get.

charged up and then it's only 75 miles from Albany to our place. So, I mean, but it's going to be like negative 20 something degrees Fahrenheit, which is, you know, insane. No reference. No, it's just a crazy temperature. Like I remember when I was a kid, I went to a football game and it was like negative five degrees and I was losing my mind how cold it was. Like I was having a hard time breathing.

So this is like another 20 degrees below that. Oh, yeah. I just went outside just before the show just to shovel a tiny little bit.

And boy, you have to control your breathing because you don't want to get a big breadth of that hair. It's just too cold. It feels like you're freezing your car because I'm well-equipped. I have the Canada goose that's supposed to be good for minus 30. I have Jimmy Combin. I don't know how you say that in English. Under your pants, you have full-on...

uh pants under your pants long underwear like long underwear yeah i have all that and still let's just you think you're good but i'm not sure i put my ski goggles on and all that too that would help yeah that's the thing uh so we're going skiing tomorrow like idiots uh or snowboarding and uh if you like we're putting like vaseline between the the ski thing and the uh

It's going to be cold, cold, cold. I hope we don't screw up something. Like, you know, like if you get stuck, you know, like what if I like, you know, drive off the road or something? I'm screwed. Like we're dead. Like it's not, it's not like a whoops, you know, whatever. It's like, there's nothing, there's no, there's no recourse. Yeah. Just say it out there, people. Bring candles, bring blankets and all that. Just a candle and a card can save your life. Yeah. For, it can last hours too. Yeah.

All right. Cybertruck seems like an all-in big gamble with big sales expectations that need to be met in order to support the share price trend. Yeah. I mean, I don't know about the trend. I mean, it has been going up lately for sure. But it is still... Tesla is going to be able to sell probably 2 million cars this year, which is like a massive luxury automaker. It's massive for luxury automakers like Tesla. So it's not...

It doesn't necessarily... Well, it needs new models for sure, but the Cybertruck is not necessarily a make-it-or-break-it thing. It is a big gamble in the tournament. It is massively different from the average pickup truck. There's no doubt about it. But I think it's going to work. I don't see it not working so far. Especially if they have a smooth production ramp and...

Sounds like they're going to be using the 4680. So if the 4680 is, if they owned it by now, like by the time this thing goes into production, if they have like this thing works and you get the efficiency gain from that, I think they're in business with that truck.

I guess not for everyone. Obviously not for everyone, but for enough people. I know that design is really cool for a certain aesthetic, but we're talking mainstream. I don't know that mainstream...

everybody is going to want to drive around in that thing also there's some a lot of uncertainties like oh you know the edges are sharp like that you know that might be annoying like to get cut by your car by walking you know you're walking by and your hip hits it and you're bleeding like i don't know if it's that sharp obviously but like that kind of stuff would you know

be a pain. And then, you know, there's the uncertainty of like, well, does Tesla know how to make a car with an exoskeleton? And then, you know, I'm not so concerned about that anymore because what Tesla is calling an exoskeleton now we know it's seeing the body and everything is like, okay, it's, it's barely an exoskeleton. Like take it like if that is an exoskeleton, like every car where the body panels have some structural, uh,

contribution then you're an exoskeleton because they are body panels still I think the way we saw it so I'm not too concerned about that part I mean the way we saw it it looked like sheet metal just bent around it so I don't know if that's the final form I don't know

Do you mean the prototype? No, I mean the body, when the Cybertruck body leaked from the GeoFactory Texas. Right. Yeah, that was... We saw like it was built like very much like a normal truck, really, just with bigger casting part for the body, obviously, which is good. Yeah. So that's why I'm less worried about because of that, because Tesla can carry out the experience from the Model Y into that. Right.

All right. He continues, is Tesla going to continue thumbing its nose at regulators? I would say yes. We talked about or we saw in the 10K that they had some more regulation coming their way. All right. Kyle Rash says, what do you think it will take to get Tesla to produce more normal truck cancellations competition? Elon has mentioned a backup plan, right? Without any details leaked yet.

So I don't know if they have an official backup plan more than that. Elon was like, yeah, like if we need to make a regular looking pickup truck, like we can make a regular looking pickup truck. Like it's not that difficult. And he's probably right about that. Like a lot of pickup trucks, he's just looked the same. I just don't think they're going to need it. Honestly. Yeah. I just don't see them needing it. I think, I think this thing's going to work. Well, not for everybody, not for David Peer. And he's, what am I supposed to think? It's desirable. Okay. Yeah.

The rear window looks small. It does look small. Yeah, I agree with that. Tesla is years ahead, according to FSD Beta in Seattle, but the competition is coming. But he's also laughing or crying. Charlie redeemed. I just got done cruising e-bikes with my homie. I'm no Avenue. OK, that's maybe a different show. Yeah, I want to check it out.

Question, does the aspect ratio of the Cybertruck video look a little distorted? It looks a little too tall and too skinny, especially the tires are really skinny. Yeah, that's always a concern with those videos, especially on Instagram and all that. And people, I don't know. It does look a little bit different, but it might be, like you said, it might be the video being distorted.

But that's why we need more pictures. If you guys spot the Cybertruck beta around, send us some pictures. We need to take a look, a comparison, make sure that we know what we're looking at. All right. DVWS says the taillights are very tiny. Get ready to get rear-ended. All right. Again, we need more data. Look tiny on that specific picture, but we need more data.

All right, Romeo Mara, any word on FSD hardware version 4 in the market for Model Y? Wait for the announcement and order it when it ships with V4. Do you think there will be a price increase with V4? All good questions. I mean, you know, that could increase the price of the Model Y a little bit. Not necessarily linked to V4, maybe just linked to market conditions. Timing on V4, like the only timing that we had is Tesla's...

request for confidentiality with the FCC. So FCC, I keep confusing those two. FCC, what is it? FTC, I think. FTC? Trade Commission. No, that's the Trade Commission. Anyway, one of those, they were asking for confidentiality until January because they plan to launch the new radar in January and we assume that the new radar will be part of the hardware for suite of sensors and probably computer too for the

for the pilot and self-driving. So that's the only data we have right now. So it could be any way. Not only can it be any day, it could be already in new cars and we don't even know. You know how Tesla is. And then they announced it like, oh, by the way, everything that's been delivered since last week has been hardware 4. So we don't know until we know. And there could be a price increase or a price decrease or anything in between. We're so useful today. Could go each way.

Question. When the EV tax credit rules change in March-April, are most cars with a current credit expected to get $3,750? That's a tough one, too. We need those guidelines before we can make that statement. But yes, there's a lot of battery materials coming from China right now that's going to make it hard for a lot of automakers to achieve complete eligibility. There's no doubt about that. Yeah, it's...

I think that's one of those things where Tesla is best positioned to, because most vehicles that Tesla produce in North America, where they need to be for the assembly criteria, have batteries coming from Panasonic built in North America. And also Panasonic's supply chain is favorable to Panasonic.

to the free trade agreement thing that is part of the eligibility of the full tax credit also. All right, Stefan, question. The last three cars have been Teslas. Are Teslas that bad? Do you have to change them that often? Tesla is not that old a company. No, it's not because I have a 2012 Model S that I still have.

I'm more heading to my cars, it's not that I'm changing them. I still have all my Tesla S41 that I sold just because I didn't need it because it was the car that I had in LA and I'm not staying in LA anymore. So I sold it. That car had 400,000 miles on it so talk about

needing to change it often actually i'm going to la in april do you think uh chris will let me borrow that thing yeah i mean i don't know if you want to be caught driving in it a lot of people don't like the way it looks these days i like it though but uh it's been graffiti on it graffiti i don't know

All right. P85 says question conspiracy theory. Any chance the government added all Model Ys to the tax credit to get Tesla to increase the price to take pressure off other car makers? I think that is way too much reading into nothing. Yeah, I mean, he did. He did admit that it's a conspiracy theory. So it is a pretty wild one.

No, I think you just did the right thing. And I think they realized from the public comments on it and everything that it was pretty dumb not to give them all a Y, but then to give like a plug in a hybrid that gets 30 miles of range and biggest SUVs that the tax credit made no sense. The tax credit should be on how efficient the car is and how much potential it has to lower the impact on the environment. That's the goal of it, really.

All right, Spikes43 says, question, any thoughts on the Rivian and F-150 getting fried on EA chargers making the rounds on Twitter this week? Has this happened with superchargers? Well, we've seen some fires, but I don't know too much about those. As far as the EA thing, I've also seen a Chevy Bolt having a short from a EA charger. I don't know if it's a thing. I don't know if this is something that we need to worry about.

Um, but there has been a few of these in the last couple of days or weeks. Um, the F one 50, uh, was taken to Ford and, and fixed. Uh, we actually talked to that guy. Uh, didn't talk to the, uh, the Rivian guy about it. Um, it's hard to, it's hard to imagine it's EA's fault though, because they're just delivering, uh, DC power.

You know, maybe it's not cycling back in time. Like if the Ford is saying, hey, you need to slow down the charge and it's not. I don't know. What do you think? Yeah, it's a weird one for sure because these things are usually like tested like thoroughly. Like every charging station manufacturer has to test their charging station with all different

before they can be accepted on their chargers. So they all have some kind of facility, especially in Michigan, and whatever the cars are being made, they go and test them there. So like you said, it's also a pretty simple process of accepting DC current. So it's not... Yeah, it's a weird one. I wouldn't think it's a major concern right now,

uh it might be specific issues with these specific not only models but these units themselves uh so so far i would treat it like that but we'll keep an eye on the story for sure if there's more that happens that is going to become a bigger concern all right greg poland comment i'm from texas and having a candle in the car is a freaking great idea wow uh yeah it's kind of kind of like living in the north is you just like have one in the glove box also do that

Also make sure you have a lighter. Candles not a lot of help. Yeah, there's not a lot of place that have a cigarette lighter anymore. Yeah, no kidding. Let's see. I think he had a follow up question. What do you pack in your car for winter emergency situation?

So we've got blankets. We also have, I don't know if it's cold specific, but we also usually have like a gallon of water in the back somewhere. Oh, I don't have that. I have like an extra like winter coat, like a very tough one. I keep in there. Candle. Do I have a blanket or not? Traction aids.

pretty useful uh traction aids that's uh that's a difference maker for sure that's about it for the for the top for the car their tires yeah you know those uh metal ones you just it's not chains but you you put them in front of your tires and it drips into the ice oh yeah and then if your car is stuck basically it as soon as you get on them you get good traction and then right so that's that's that's a game changer for sure yep

If you get stuck, you can really get unstuck from pretty much anything with good traction aids. Yep. In Texas, I think that's a thing that they might need to think about sometimes now that the ice... Some places in Texas, they get snow. Right. I had some ice recently. Jake's online says, all these companies recently had several price increases, so they probably went too far.

I think like we said previously, they charge as much as they can get and they can't sell cars and they lower the prices. Seattle Vanna, which legacy car company do you think is most at risk of not making the EV transition? Toyota.

Toyota's the big one. There's kind of like the Toyota sphere of influence with Subaru and Mazda. Nissan, they were ahead of the game. They had the Leaf and they haven't been able to get the Aria off the line at all.

Yeah, that's crazy. That's kind of a bummer. All the Japanese are at risk, I think, at the very least, with Toyota being... If Toyota falls from the revolution, that's massive because obviously it's the biggest automaker by market cap other than Tesla. Yeah, and all the premium brands there too, like Acura, Infiniti, Lexus. So, yeah.

Alright, Stefan's back. Tail lights on most modern cars are too small and front lights build too close together and thus turn signals are hidden. I've never noticed that problem. The Bolt actually has some weird turn signals. They're very low and people have been hacking their cars to move the turn signals up. Alright, Joel Sapp, question. Gotta hand it to you guys. You get tons of grief but you are still huge fans of Tesla. Well,

It's more like Tesla is the EV, like, you know, 60 to 80% of the market. Like they're leading in everything. They're kind of the big name in town. Well, also like we weren't, we're not dumb. Like we drive the car. We've owned Tesla for a long time. Like we know they're good. Yeah, coming up on 10 years for me. We're not going to be lying to people. And like, just because they make a few moves that we disagree with and we're going to,

we're going to be critical of those moves. We're going to be like, well, that makes the whole car so bad. Even with the Elon things these days, I'm not on board with a lot of things that Elon is doing and saying, but that doesn't stop me from loving the car. What else am I going to do? There's not anything that comes close yet. There's things that are creeping in in the background a little bit, but for me, they're not coming close yet. All right.

A few more. The Nissan Ariya is huge in the market here in Denmark. Yeah, but it's just a drive here in North America. New Jersey, there's some Ariyas out there. No, you can get it. There's a few of them, but it's not in any significant volume in North America. And yeah, there is some markets in Europe where they sold a decent amount. But you cannot just give up on the whole market.

Hey, what is Nissan without an automatic market? I don't know what the percentage are, but it wouldn't be the same company. Like you...

it would be in trouble. For sure. This happened before in the past. We've seen it. We've seen it with GM. We've seen it with Ford when Ford didn't go bankrupt but closed and GM went bankrupt and they had to completely reshape their business in different markets and that affected the company greatly and they were barely bankrupt. Right.

You have to be careful with that stuff. Again, I've been saying it for a while, but some giants will fall from the electric revolution. Nissan might be one of them. I'm not so sure. But Toyota, I think I'm really concerned about that.

And I will say the Nissan Ariya, like they had an amazing prototype and then came out with the Ariya and it's not quite as amazing. But the interior is really nice. So if you are looking for that type of vehicle, check out the interior of the Ariya. It's like way better than you expect.

All right. Well, that's it for us this week. Thanks a lot for everyone that's listening. Thanks to our sponsor, SAE International. Again, if you want to go to that conference, you can go in the show notes right now. We have a link to register. We're going to talk a little bit more about them in the coming weeks, too, so stay tuned for that.

We appreciate every single one of you that's watching right now, that's still watching. It's awesome that you're here. Stay safe out there, especially if you're in the Northeast right now. It's a cold one. You have to be careful. Frostbites are a real thing. No joke. And we'll try to stay safe ourselves, especially Seth that's crazy enough to go walk. Crazy enough he has to. It's a competition for his kids. Otherwise, I don't think he would be out there. But we'll try to stay safe too so that we are back next week. Same time, same place. Have a