Podcast: Tesla goes wireless, Rivian joins NACS+reinvents itself, Dojo saves the day? and more
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We are live for a new episode of The Electric Podcast. I am Fred Lemberg, your host. And as usual, I am joined by Seth Wintraub. How are you doing today, Seth? Good. All right, all right. We don't have a sponsor on this week's episode, but I would like to squeeze in a little plug for The Electric Sun Formula Sun.

which is the solar car race that's going to happen in Artland Raceway in Topeka, Kansas. And it's starting, well, next week now, right? The 27th of June to the 2nd of July. And it's actually going to be present. We're under the name. We are a title sponsor of the show. It's a bunch of student teams.

from a bunch of universities all around North America. And they have already produced an electric solar car prototype, and they're going to race it at this track for a global challenge in the solar race.

So it's going to be very interesting. A bunch of engineering students are going to be the future of probably the electric automotive world because a lot of companies recruit from those challenges. And it's a good opportunity to encourage the students and to just watch some cool technology that might make its way to the auto industry in the future because it has in the past that those challenges have been going on for a while. So from June 27 to July 2, if you are around Kansas, Topeka, Kansas, come check it out.

Are you going to make it? Yeah, I haven't bought my tickets just yet. We're going to have to talk about it after the show. The plans haven't been finalized.

Yeah, I'm going to be out there on the 28th and Aaron, our social media guy, is going to be there and hopefully we'll get some other people out there. Tesla is actually a co-sponsor. And we were supposed to have Aptera too. We told you Aptera was going to be there in the last few weeks, unfortunately. Yeah, Aptera wasn't able to make it, sadly. We don't really understand quite why, but maybe

Maybe next year. Yeah, that would have been the perfect partner for this. It's right up their alley. All right. Biggest news of the week. It's another person gets on board the NAX hype train, and that's Rivian. So it happened earlier this week. We've been talking about it a lot.

But yeah, I mean, it's almost a copy-pasted of the Ford and GM announcement, though a little bit more details maybe on the Rivian front. And so in general, it's again planned to adopt NAX on November.

Rivian vehicles starting in 2025. So the connector is going to be in the vehicle, but the goal is always to get access to the supercharger network as soon as possible. So they said adapters in 2024, just like Ford NGM, though Rivian said spring 2024. So there's like a little, uh, a little bit more details here. A bit unfortunate though. 2024 sounds a bit late to me. Like it's almost a year to get, to get an adapter going, but, um,

Still, in the meantime, there's going to be – Rivian owners can access the CCS networks existing, including Rivian's own. So what is a bit different when Rivian is like – again, they have their own charging network using CCS. And they did say in the announcement that they plan to keep –

To keep it going. Where is the actual announcement here? Yeah, and they're going to actually add it to, add Knox to their adapters in 2025. To the R1 vehicles and R2 platform. But I was talking about the announcement for their adventure network.

Okay. Rivian says that although it's offering access to Tesla's expensive charging network in North America, it will continue to build its all-in-venture network of chargers. Whether those Rivian piles will eventually support NACs in addition to... Okay, so it's not clear at this point. But I mean, if Rivian is making vehicles in 2025 with NACs, they're not going to make only CCS. Yeah, it makes no sense.

And there's already these connectors that are going to go both ways anyway. So you cannot have CCS. It's not that big of a deal. It's just it's a little bit more efficient. And that deal, it looks to me a bit like Tesla is kind of dangling the supercharger network to get people to adopt NACs. They're like, hey, yeah.

I mean, apparently...

Nobody's arguing. Yeah, exactly. Nobody's arguing. And then the next day, boom. Well, it's not as much as a boom as you need to have those adapters. But was there something about the adapter being free in the Raven announcement too? Yeah, they're giving them to customers for free. Yeah, and existing ones too. So it's like a way to, like if you buy a car now, you're not going to be left behind. I guess that's people's biggest concern now.

All right. Speaking of Rivian, you had, well, we kind of announced it last week, but it became official this week or today, actually, or yesterday. You placed your order today. Oh, and yeah, go ahead. Yeah. So a couple of things. One is Rivian gave me a R1S. We've been asking for a week review for a long time and whatever reason, it took a really long time to get one, but we got one.

And, you know, from a review standpoint, like we're very late in the game, like there's been reviews. We had a review a year ago on it and not much has changed there. You know, it's basically hardware is mostly the same. Software has seen some updates. But, you know, this kind of puts things into perspective right now. The CFO of Rivian got into a Deutsche Bank call yesterday.

This week or last week and kind of said Rivian's changing right now. Like they're they're changing from a pickup truck manufacturer, which is 90 something percent of what they've manufactured to this point. They've kind of just trickled out R1Ss and now they are ramping up their R1S production. It's going to be 75 percent of what they make.

Um, and then also they have the Enduro platform coming out, which will allow them to make a little bit more money on each, uh, vehicle and also sell them for a little bit less. And also they'll get a little bit more range. So kind of win, win, win there. Um,

There's a few reasons for this. One is there's actually competition for pickups. The Ford F-150 Lightning is already out competing with the R1T, and pretty soon the Cybertruck's coming out. This week I spent some time at Chevy with the Silverado. That thing has 450 miles of range, which is crazy.

Um, so there's competition there, but there's not really competition for the R1S at all. Like, uh, you know, Scout's going to eventually come out with something, uh, which is that VW brand. Um, Kia's got the, uh, EV9, which is starting to trickle out, but you know, it's a Kia. It's not going to be quite the off-roader. Um, so, uh,

Really, the R1S is the only game in town, and it's a well-done piece of work, and it's now coming in a little less expensive with the dual-

instead of the quad motor. And the quad motor, to be honest, I think is going to be a very niche product because you get almost everything the quad motor gives you in a dual motor. Like look at the speed difference there. It's 0 to 60 at 3.5 seconds for the dual motor and 3.0 seconds for the quad motor. I don't even know if you hit three. It's very close. So it's almost undiscernible, the difference in speed.

um but your range goes way up um the cfo said she was getting like 352 miles of range uh so that's 25 miles more than uh the quad motor pretty big deal i think and then you know there's things like the rally mode and drift mode uh that only are available on the quad motor but i don't think a lot of

Rivian's customers are going for that. So that's happening. I also got to check out Rivian's spaces. They opened one in Manhattan. It's a lovely place. It's similar to the one in Venice. If you've ever been there, it looks like a Patagonia store or a Burton store. And it could easily have accessories like tents and camping gear and hiking gear and all that other stuff.

Um, uh, last week we had the exclusive that, uh, Rivian, uh, pulled in ABRP, a better route planner. Is that yours? Yeah, that's, that's the Luna, uh, Eclipse. Oh, it's, you know, on the, uh, the Metro North train line, they only allow you to do foldable bikes. So that's my train bike. Um,

But yeah, the space was really nice. They gave us a look before customers came in. They give rides on the West Side Highway, which is like not really Rivian country. But yeah, really nice experience. I think it'll get a lot more people looking at Rivians and more importantly, driving them. So a lot of things happening at Rivian right now. I think a better route planner is a way to bring new customers in. It's like free advertising for Rivian's network.

Um, you know, Rivian has said it's going to open its network to all users. Um, and there's going to be a lot, a lot more R1Ss on the road, uh, coming soon. So my, my delivery date was supposed to be October to December. And I got word last week that, uh, it was happening. And I got word today that, um, I actually can pick up my R1S on Monday and I've seen on online a few other people, um,

that were late 2023, that they got the word that their R1Ss are coming. So they're really pushing out those R1Ss. Because right now, if you want an R1T, the pickup, it's like a two or three day wait, sometimes as much as a week or two. And an R1S is like a year. So they clearly need to bring those R1Ss down in wait time.

And then, you know, obviously the two-wheel enduro – sorry, the two-motor enduro is going to be a big difference there. So a lot of things happening at Rivian. Yes. Keep a close eye on it if you want to know the latest news. We have, like, Seth that's always on it on that trip. A scooter was close to it also to Rivian for a lot of news. And now we're going to have an actual Rivian owner on staff. So that's –

We're going to be right on top of everything Rivian. We have plenty of other news to discuss today, but if you guys have any questions for us about what we are discussing on the show today, we are live. You can ask questions live in the comments section on YouTube, Facebook, and even I think LinkedIn is working now for comments too. So wherever you're watching live, you can send us a question. We're going to get to it later on the show.

It doesn't have to be something that we're discussing today. If you have any other question about other topics in the EV world, you can put them in the comment section right now. We're going to get to it in about 30, 40 minutes. All right. On the Tesla front, it's the end of quarter push. And the end of quarter push is a little bit special this quarter because we've been talking about it a lot. But it's the first time that Tesla has been giving a

discount on new inventory vehicle versus new custom orders. So Tesla is like very focused on like just liquidating inventory vehicles, which is something that they've been doing pretty much every quarter, but never with a discount that's different than from the new order. So, and it's also not just like,

free supercharging for however period of time like the three years now that it is for for model snx which is not bad um but also z-req discount on the vehicle so it was like four thousand dollars last week now it's eight thousand dollars on some more snx vehicle so you can see now um

The Model S, the cheapest version in new vehicle with the $8,000 discount, starts at $82,709, which is one of the cheapest Model S we've seen in a long time. I mean, we're getting close to getting back to like Model S 90 back in those days. Like since Tesla had a 100-kilowatt-hour battery pack Model S, it has rarely gone down into these levels. Yeah.

Same discounts also on the Plaid, but the Plaid is obviously a little bit more expensive. So it's one of the cheapest times we've seen the Model S and also three years of free supercharging. And if you buy it with a referral card, that's another $1,300 off. So it goes down to basically close to $80,000, the Model S. So if you're in the market for a Model S or a Model X, because it's the same discounts apply there, they are happening right now.

And we've seen there's been some controversy about the number inventory vehicle. It looks like Model 3 and Y are down pretty significantly. But Model S and X, it's harder to tell right now because Tesla updated the API. And the views, like the scramble, the VINs, so that fewer cars appear. But it still looks like Model 3 and Y are looking good, which is why Model S and X are the ones getting the big, big, big discounts.

All right. This is interesting. Tesla is looking to acquire a wireless charging startup. So you would have told me that like six months ago and I would have a hard time believing you. But now we're starting to think that it's very much more likely because of what happened at Investor Day earlier this year when Tesla had this big day where basically all its leadership gave presentation on what they've been doing.

And for the charging presentation, at the very end of it, it was a little surprise where Tesla unveiled, well, teased, they never mentioned wireless charging, but they teased this image here that looks to involve a charger with a pad at the bottom. So it looks like to be a new wireless home charger that Tesla is looking to deploy. So that was a surprise because Tesla...

was never much into wireless charging for good reason because for a long time, now it's getting less so, but for a long time, it was a lot less efficient than charging. It's still a little bit less efficient, but not much. And some companies are starting to claim that it is just as efficient, but I don't know what are the specs required to make that happen because normally you do lose some energy to inductive charging. Anyway,

That was the main issue. The second issue is cost for the most part. It's more expensive than a cable charger and can be a lot more expensive depending on the situation because like in this case here, you need to embed a charging pad within the ground. So maybe they found a way to do that

An expensive leap normally involves like locking it in the ground, either digging into it or bolting into it. So it's not, it has a lot of more work. And then the third thing is that is all of that is the loss and efficiency or whether or not it's happening up to question depending on the actual device itself.

And this more expensive, more expensive, not only cost of the hardware, but the installation because of it. Is it worth the problem that you're solving? Because the problem that you're solving is just your...

you don't have to plug in the car you just have you just park it and go so you're saving maybe like a few seconds every time you park because it doesn't take a lot of time for the most part depending on your charging setup but i don't know i don't have the best charging setup at home here and i would say that it takes me probably like three or four seconds to plug the car so obviously if you do that every day

Twice a day because you unplug it, plug it. It adds up to probably a few hours of your life overall. So maybe there's some value in it, but not much. Where Tesla sees some value, obviously, is with the self-driving aspect. So

If your car is self-driving and ultimately Tesla's goal is to be not only self-driving, but self-driving sometimes without anyone in the car. So you can just call up your car and it could come by itself with no one in it. So that means it might need to charge with no one in it. How do you charge with no one in it if you don't have anyone to plug in the car?

Tesla's solution for a while appeared to be a robotic arm that would plug in the car. We've seen the famous snake robot that Tesla had for a while. And Tesla came out with this in 2016, and we thought it was dead since nothing happened since 2016. But more recently, Elon said, no, it's still in the cars. But Elon says a lot of things too. So now since this announcement or this teasing that happened earlier this year, we're like, all right, it looks like Tesla might be looking

at wireless instead now bringing it up to this week what happened is that a report from germany from a filing so it's an official like filing that they submitted this company called wiferion wiferion w-i-f-e-r-i-o-n um which is uh based in freiburg germany

So they filed to let their shareholders know that they intend to sell the company and that Tesla International BV is one of the main interested parties. So it sounds like Tesla is interested. It hasn't gone through yet, but it looks at least confirmed that Tesla is interested in buying this company.

Now there's a few interesting things about this company. So it's a small startup founded in 2016, but it already has deployed 8,000 wireless chargers. However, those chargers are mostly for the industrial robot industry. So it's chargers for like robots in a factory. Yeah.

You can think a little bit. What I can think of is like that probably made also wireless charging more popular is things like those self-driving lawnmowers and things like that. Like my dad has one. You don't have a lot of like automatic like robot home charging, inductive charging, but those things are. So it's becoming a little bit more popular.

And so they do similar things like that, but more for the industrial world. But they also are getting into the EV business. So it would make sense for Tesla to buy that company since it already has its own business going in a sector that Tesla use because Tesla use plenty of industrial robots. And then they can leverage that technology for their own wireless chargers. And they're already in production. So Tesla could potentially just...

merge their technology with theirs and use their production capacity there. The company has raised about the equivalent of $16 million to date, and the deal is expected to be in the mid to high double-digit million dollars. So let's say like $40 to $100 million, whatever. Interesting. This is not big on acquisition, at least for a company of its size, but it has done a few over the years.

Including one in Germany, Grumman. Yeah, it was a big one. Wouldn't be the first time that Tesla, and it's been a successful one too. So it wouldn't be the first time that Tesla has tapped into the engineering talent in Germany. All right, this is a big one for me. This is sort of my last hope for FSD Beta, if you will.

This is my last hope. So the Dojo supercomputer is finally coming next month, according to Tesla. So Tesla has created yet another Twitter account. So since Elon took over Twitter, Tesla has created five new official Twitter accounts for different divisions of the company, including now Tesla AI. And they went on a little tweeting spree this week. And in the tweeting spree, there was this chart that they shared about the...

compute power that they have to train their neural network that is powering the self-driving effort. And in it, they share a timeline of July 2023. So that's next month. The start of Dojo production. So if you haven't been following the Dojo program, it's Tesla's own built from the ground up supercomputer. It was first unveiled at Tesla AI Day back in 2021. So that was two years ago. But back then, Tesla only had the chip.

They're the chip and the tile. So they have the chip and a tile, but they were still far from having the actual supercomputer. Last year, they still unveiled their system tray. So like your supercomputer, like looks like, like this, like, and then you have the system trays in there and they had one tray done.

And that's it. That's not a full, like this is a cluster or they call it an exapod, but normally it's like a cluster, a supercomputer cluster, that's all. They didn't have that yet. They said that they're going to have their first one in Q1 2023. Q1 2023 came and passed. But now with this new timeline, it sounds like it's going into production soon.

as soon as next month and then they're gonna ramping up so build out the clusters over time are adding power to it and by january 2024 they think they're already going to be in the top five on the entire world in total compute capacity and then as you can see ramp up really fast to 100 exaflops by the end of next year so very impressive stuff now why did i say this is my last hope say

For people like me who have not been really impressed by the rate of improvement of FSD Beta, and we know that's been one of my biggest concerns as an FSD Beta owner, where Elon has kept saying, look at the pace of improvement of FSD Beta and everything. And I have it for a year and a half, maybe not a year and a half, but over a year at this point, and I've seen very little improvement. I've seen some improvement, to be fair, but for a year...

It wasn't like a big improvement to me, and especially the way that Tesla was framing the rate of improvement. Now, some of the Tesla fans that have been agreeing with me on that front, the way one thing that they've been pushing is like this idea. It's because they don't have Dojo. They don't have the compute power anymore.

to handle all this data coming from the fleet. And that's true that there's a lot of data coming from the fleet, like more than any other automaker out there, because Tesla has had millions of vehicles on the road at this point, and they're equipped with all the sensors feeding the data to Tesla. And it's a lot of potential for good data to train the neural nets on, but you need a lot of compute power to sort through the data and feed your neural nets.

So they've been saying like Dojo is going to be the difference maker. Testless hasn't said exactly as much, but they've been hinting that, yeah, it's going to be a big step change. So yeah, it's my, it's my hope that I can, now that they're going to have that, we're going to see a more impressive rate of improvement. I'm not saying that that's going to, what's going to happen. I'm saying that's my last hope of what could happen. Yeah. I, I don't know. I mean, just having raw compute power doesn't necessarily get you to full self-driving, but.

Obviously, it doesn't hurt. Yeah. I mean, if Elon is serious about a hand of the year full autonomy, so what does he need to make that happen? There cannot be a list that long of things that would be on top of mind, I think. Again, let's see if he's serious about this, if it's going to be true. It hasn't been the case before, multiple times.

All right. Model 3 refresh, a little rumors going on. Take everything I'm going to list here as a grain of salt because we don't have any proof to it. This is coming from Teslascope, which is a companion app for Tesla. And they do have like good access to Tesla software and everything. But in this case, they seem to be more doing like a traditional like journalism job, like just talking to internal sources.

But I don't know how serious we can take this as they've been wrong in the past. And the report is not something that I... The way they framed it, it's not something that I would post myself because they're like, oh, this is happening for sure. And then, oh, this we don't know for sure. Like, yeah, like...

If you're basing these on the same internal sources, there's some... I don't like it when there's wiggle room to the information. It's either happening or it's not.

Or at least it doesn't need to be always happening, but at least like Tesla is working on this for that. Like the things that are clear. Anyway, the biggest news would be a steer by wire. They claim that there's going to be steer by wire in the new Model 3. So we just talked about that last week. We uncovered this pattern that Tesla has filed for it. But what we've been hearing us is like,

Cybertruck would be the first one. Now, this is not completely impossible because Cybertruck is almost ready. So if Cybertruck is almost ready getting into production, that means the steer-by-wire is ready. And they could do the same with the Model 3. And some others have opened the doors too for steer-by-wires. Now, like the Toyota is steer-by-wire to a degree. They do have redundancy and mechanical redundancy, but a lot of people are going that way.

So Tesla is apparently doing the same. Now, what else is new? The Matrix LEDs light that we've been seeing on the Model S and X are making it to the new Model 3 apparently. So that's not impossible too. They've been trying to hide the headlights and taillights on the prototypes that we've seen. RGB ambient lights, game-changing technology here.

Apparently coming to Model 3. I'm joking, but it would still be cool. Especially if you have control over them. You can do your own little ambience in the car with different colors. That would be nice.

Well, apparently beyond what we've seen, obviously we expected the new Model 3 to have hardware 4. It's the last one, last Tesla vehicle to get it. But Tesla Scope claims there's going to be a little bit more to it. It's going to have a bumper camera. So we'll see. And the new front-facing camera too. So...

The current hardware 4 system that we've seen, the front cameras is a dummy one. So there might be room to add another one. So maybe the Model 3 is going to be the first to have it. We're not clear about that. We think we're going to learn a lot more about the hardware 4 suite of system once the Model 3 comes out because Tesla has been very quiet about it.

supposedly because they don't want to affect Model 3 sales by talking about, hey, we have this new technology that's all order cars except this one. The Osborne effect, they call it.

But then they talked also about things like the price and the launch. And they say it could be next month or it could be in six months. So things like that that remove some credibility to the report. It feels like if they knew all that, they probably wouldn't know that too. But they said they don't know. I would say 20% chance of being correct. Yeah. I mean, there's a lot of things in there that make sense. Some of this stuff is guessing. Yeah. Yeah.

No, but they say it's not guessing. I wouldn't have posted that if they claim it's just a guesswork. But they said to have talked to, I think, a dozen internal employees, which sounds a bit much to me. Yeah. I mean, I've been doing this for eight years. I don't think I had 12 sources within Tesla. Yeah. And so it...

A lot of that stuff could come true because, you know, we've talked like the matrix light, obviously it could come true, but I just don't think that this stuff makes sense in the whole. So I think it's a unlikely. Yeah. Especially like the steer by wire, like the timing would make sense with cyber truck and everything. But do you want to release that in model three and not model Y? Exactly. Like there's, there's a few things like that that just give me pause. Right.

All right, Mole, Cybertruck made its way to New Zealand for its final winter testing. So that's cool. Did we talk about that last week? I don't know. I came out there at 18. I feel like we had a picture on the plane or something last week. Yeah. Oh, yeah. No, we didn't. I don't want to sneak in there. But anyway, final testing for the Cybertruck in New Zealand. Another step closer to production.

Then Tesla has updated us, gave us an update that we can get some information out of, but it's not perfect, of production of the 4680 cell in Giga, Texas. So we've talked a lot about the Fremont pilot plan. That's not really a pilot plan in terms of volume, at least. But the real big volume is going to come from Gigafactory, Texas. And it's expected to be very important for Cybertruck production and, of course, the new Model Y and future vehicle programs.

Tesla needs Gigafactory Texas to produce cells in large volumes. What they did this week is they confirmed that they produced the 10th million 46-D cells at Gigatexas. Now, that's all the cells produced to date, which is not perfect information because you want the current production rate. So we cannot try to...

get the production rate from that because I think Tesla just announced the first million and then the 10 million. So there's too much time between. It could be producing a million a week or it could be producing nothing. Because 10 million sales, I did the math somewhere. So 10 million sales is good enough for producing 12,000 MW. So obviously Tesla has produced more than 12,000 MW that Geofactory takes us to date, but they've been compensating with the Fremont factory production too.

So, well, the Fremont, if you sell a factory, not the Fremont vehicle factory. But it's a good sign at 10 million. I would assume that now they have a pretty decent production rate that should cover maybe like a few thousand MW weeks. Obviously, the rest is

being produced with 2170 cells but we we've been hoping that the mix is going to improve over time and the 46cc cells solidify itself as like this main cell which is still far from the case but are they still building 4680s in Fremont or at the Gigafactory Nevada I know they originally

you know, like kind of the prototype build was there, but they're not producing those for actual vehicles. Are there? No, no. I think the 46 80 cells in, uh,

in three months are still in production because like we said it's a pilot factory but it's a pretty like significant pilot factory so there's different volume coming out of that you got nevada though i don't i don't i don't think it's in production yet because the like the expansion haven't even taken place like that that's a weird one and i'm keeping an eye on uh everyone again see when the actual expansion is going to start because it was announced like four or five months ago at this point and they still haven't like broken ground on the on the actual expansion so yeah

And that's going to be a big deal, obviously, for 4DCCD and eventually the SSMI production. All right. The list of the most American-made cars have been released by cars.com. So they have this American-made index that they post every year where they try to look into all of the vehicle programs that are produced in the U.S. And they try to figure out which one of the most American-made based on the number of parts that are made locally versus internationally.

And Tesla has been for a few years at the top of that list, but to a brand new degree this year with the first four, top four vehicles on the list are all Tesla vehicles. Model Y being at the top. So the latest Tesla vehicle is the most produced. And it makes sense because Tesla has been increasingly vertically integrating and producing more of its own parts. So the latest model being the top makes a lot of sense.

Then another few interesting things out of this. First of all, it's the only American automaker in the top 10. Which is weird. Yeah. There's basically only two other automakers on there, Honda and Volkswagen, because also Acura, but Acura is Honda. So basically the same thing. So Honda has also four spots in the top 10, all after Tesla though. And Volkswagen is in there. And encouraging, Volkswagen is in there with the ID.4. So it's another electric vehicle in there. So yeah.

That's an interesting point, the American thing. But the other interesting thing is that out of the top 10 vehicle, even though 8% or 10% EV adoption now in the U.S., five of them are American-made. So it does seem to be an opportunity. This transition to electric vehicles seems to be an opportunity to...

focused on local production and obviously the ira has been very impactful on there and this impact i think we know we're not even feeling it we will feeling it we're feeling it in term of investments right now but in turn actual like full underground and production is like the investment are just too recent to fill that so i think over time uh we're gonna see that a lot like we're gonna see a lot more of that so

It's an opportunity. So some automakers are seeing it as a problem, while they're just seeing it as an opportunity. All right, the Escalade IQ. So this is going to be the next big EV from Cadillac, which in itself is becoming the EV brand at GM. And this is going to be obviously one of the most popular. No, the Escalade is the most popular Cadillac, I would assume. Yep. Yeah. And they released a little teaser ahead of the launch in August.

And let me just calm down here. So very short teaser, but we do get a few glimpses like this one here, this one. And then we get the front hand right here and the glass roof there, front end of the car. Built in Detroit, on Ville in New York, they say. So obviously it's a big deal. Like I just said, it's the biggest vehicle program from Cadillac. Hit going electric is going to have to...

probably a little bit more volume to it because right now with the Lyric and the Solistic, we're not seeing any significant volume for Cadillac. So even though GM is like pushing the brand as their EV brand, thermal volume, we're just not seeing that just yet. So hopefully the Cadillac is going to be it. But did you get to see the big GM event where they have like very early prototypes? Yeah, so I did. It was a clay model. And I heard, well, that thing was huge. Like it was one of those things where it was kind of like it felt like a semi-model.

Um, but my understanding is, and the look at this, it actually does not look as big as the current, uh, equal, uh, escalate. So I don't know. I, I don't know if what we saw was an escalate or something else. I mean, they just tell, you know, show us this big Cadillac thing. I mean, it had like 33 inch tires. It was just the biggest thing you've ever seen in your life. Uh, so this doesn't look like that.

I don't know. It's going to be a bit more refined, especially the wheels and tires. It's always overblown on prototypes versus the actual production version. So yeah, I'm sure it's going to be a little bit toned down. But yeah, there's an opportunity here for GM to be very efficient in the way they build things because obviously you have the Silverado electric that is taking some...

learnings from the Omer EV. And I would assume that the Escalade is going to be similar to that. It's going to take learnings from the Silverado because they do have a pickup. Do they still do a pickup version of the Escalade and gas? No, they don't. You think they're going to do it for that? I doubt it. GMC is kind of the pickup. Yeah.

But either way, they're going to probably use the same powertrain and everything. So it's going to be like you're going to see similar specs as this one, just maybe not a similar price and a little bit more luxurious because it is a Cadillac after all. All right. One more quick piece of news to discuss, and then I'm going to jump into the comments section. So I already see a lot of comments. So we're going to be able to jump into that. We're going to have plenty of time to discuss it since we are not even 40 minutes into the show. So guys, if you have any questions, put them in there right now. We're going to get to it.

If we have some extra time, we need to discuss Musk versus Zuck. Yeah, you guys don't want to get me going on that because that thing has been living rent-free in my head. It's like my two favorite worlds colliding. Well, I mean, not exactly. MMA is definitely my favorite world, and then the EV world, I don't know. Elon is on top of the EV world, but he's not the EV world itself. Yeah, we're talking about the Zuckerberg versus Musk potential MMA match.

All right. The last news is the Kia begins delivery of the flagship EV9 electric SUV. So we just discussed the EV9. It's going to be like the biggest, probably biggest competitor to what we just discussed too, the Escalade and the Rivian R1S, but a little bit less expensive. And so we...

Okay, it's in South Korea? I thought it was the U.S. delivery. So it just started delivering it in South Korea. And obviously, we discussed the spec before. We're really impressed by it. 100 kilowatt battery pack, over up to 300 miles of range, 5,000 pounds of towing. You have a third row in there. It looks like they have a killer product on their hand here. It's going to be very popular. More here than in South Korea, probably. But do we have the timing on the deliveries here? Yeah.

I don't think they gave it to us. Yeah, it's expected to go in the fourth quarter of this year. So yeah, it's going to be another three months at least. But it's coming to the U.S. with the assemble in Georgia. So it's going to take advantage of that sweet tax credit. All right, let's jump into the comments. All right. Popping in there, Stephan...

Freud Kerr, good that NACS will not make it to the EU as only one phase and not three phase as we use here. So yeah, the NACS is kind of just the hardware, like the connection. I think you could make a three phase NACS connector if you wanted to. I don't think Tesla will do that because there's no reason to in the US. We do have three phase, but it's only for very high power. So yeah.

Doubtful. All right, Dan DeYoung, what do you think are the most difficult things that FSD will have to solve before robotaxis will work? Assuming it can be solved, how long do you think that'll take? We'll leave that to you. I mean, Ashok, Tesla's head of autopilot software, had an interesting comment this week where he said that his secret goal is to make FSD work in India, which is well known for...

Yeah. Chaos on the roads, like, like traffic lights or suggestion if the, if they are even there. And, um, and I mean, you can just Google like crazy traffic in India and you'll, you'll, uh, you'll, you'll get your anxiety going pretty quickly just from watching it. Um,

So, I mean, that's an interesting thing. We're like, at one point, do you need to be able to say, and his point, so I don't know where this is coming from at this. I would assume it's Elon because, but his idea was like, if we can solve for that, for this Indian madness on the auto market, we have achieved AGI, like artificial general intelligence, which I'm not.

I'm disputing because yes, even because I am a human who's been driving for more than a decade and I would be stressed out of my mind if I would be in the driving situation. And maybe I could see myself, like if I'm being honest with myself, I can see myself like just not being able to handle it all. I just like, this is too stressful, too complicated and everything. So if you can get a...

Neural nets to indulge that, like it's getting to a level of comprehension and perspective that is extremely impressive. I don't know if it actually counts at AGI, but it's getting close to it for sure. Now, you don't necessarily need that to achieve a robot taxi, a useful robot taxi service, but that's going to be there. So if we focus on that specifically, what needs to be achieved? That was the question.

What needs to be solved? Well, I mean, you need things that don't exist yet in Tesla, like just like things like I'm thinking of the word in French right now, but when you have those craters on the road, you need pull in French.

Pod holes? Pod holes. You need to be able to detect and avoid pod holes. That's probably one of the biggest concerns I have with autopilot right now is when it would drive straight over one. Some of them I understand and everything, but others can be dangerous. I know it can be dangerous to avoid them too. So that's one of the things that's difficult for a robot. It's the trolley question and whatnot too. Yeah.

There's things like that that need to be avoided. Obviously, if we go, we were just talking in the electric newsroom about the ODOW series of tests, like the Dawn Project series of tests running over

fake children all the time like obviously this is something that needs to be solved too uh at this point it almost feels like tesla is not fixing it to uh to mess with him yeah yeah to mess with him at this point like obviously this is one that's probably easier to to fix um but i mean

So obviously the biggest thing right now is like when you're using FSD Bello, just make sure to be careful and on the wheels the whole time. Be ready to take control because those things are a problem right now. There's no doubt about it, but it's not a full driving system despite the name. That's it. Yeah, I don't, like I said, I don't have a ton of hope right now about reaching that robo taxi level based on what I'm driving right now on FSD Bello. I just, I don't, I see too many gaps. Maybe Dojo is the solution. We'll see. Yeah.

All right. How do you say pothole in French? Is it nid de poule? Yeah, nid de poule, which is like the nest of a chicken. That's the direct translation. That's awesome. Awesome. I love it. All right, question. A lot of companies have said they either considering going to NACS, any word on Fisker since they're made in Europe. Does that make NACS harder?

Not harder. They have production intended for North America already, production intended for Europe, and they both use different chargers. So you would just switch the one that you do for North America to NAC. So it's not difficult at all.

they just need to honestly right now i think that a lot of uh uh the fact that it's the adoption is relatively slow like what was it like two weeks between ford and gm then another week or two between gm and rivian it's probably because they have to go through tesla so i actually talked to tesla uh last week uh about it because they have some people that have been reaching out to me some smaller like ev makers that are like hey we want to get involved in that too do you know who we talked to and actually was able to

to get the name of the person involved. So I've been sending that to people and hopefully they get going, but I would assume like there's like discussion between all of those automaker and Tesla. So, and then that's all the same people at Tesla. So this probably comes some kind of bottleneck right now for Tesla to, to go through all these automakers one by one and get them approved. So I'm sure Fisker is going to get on board at some point.

Though there is some bad blood between Fiskars and like Henrik Fiskars and Elon Musk. But I just think that with the way that Tesla is framing NAX, like it is an open standard for everyone. It would look bad to put like sticks in the wheels of Fiskars and going NAX because that's what they have. That's the kind of get over that problem.

Yeah, I mean, Elon and Mary Barra aren't like best of friends. Yeah, but there's not like personal. It's not like for those people that don't know, like I don't know all the facts. Like I'm just going to give you like Tesla side of things on this. Or Elon side of things that he claims that he hired Enric Fisker to design the original Model S and that Fisker showed him a bunch of designs that were bad. And he actually used that

that contract to design the Karma. And then he went after this contract was over with Tesla. He didn't show the Fisker Karma design to Tesla, and he just started a company to build the Fisker Karma instead. So, and then Tesla hired Franz von Halsons, and he designed the actual Model S. So, they ended up suing Fisker for over that, but I don't think they won the lawsuit. So, yeah.

so not winning a lawsuit doesn't mean that testa wasn't wrong either but i don't know what happened like usually probably respected the contract the contract wasn't didn't prevent him from doing that or even he didn't do that i don't know yeah and there's you know other companies like lucid uh yeah have already said that uh they're taking a wait and see for now so yeah hyundai is the same too there yeah

All right, Joe Sapp, question. Could you see Tesla using the wireless charging to charge cars out of production? The cars drive off the production line, charge themselves, and then drive onto a car carrier. Joel, you're not thinking big enough here. Like if there's wireless charging, they don't need a car carrier. They just drive themselves all the way across country to wherever they need to go. And then you get your car at this hour, it's 3,000 miles an hour. Yeah.

Yeah, but I mean, that's literally something that Elon has mentioned in the past. That's literally something that Elon has mentioned. No, I still think it would be more efficient to just hand it on like trains and things like that, like to get a bunch of the distance covered. And then maybe you do the final few miles like that. But obviously, we're so far away from that. I think we're so far away. If you're Elon Musk, you think you're months away by the end of the year. But I also think that you can do a compelling MMA fight at the same time.

Speaking of Fisker, Risky Sinta, Fisker did another delivery event, 360 miles EPA, still think they are fake. Did we ever say that they're fake? No. I mean, we already said they weren't going to deliver it in the U.S. I'm just, I don't know for how long they're going to last, though, because financially speaking, it doesn't look good. But I wish them luck. I wish them that it works out. Yeah, the more it beats the better. Yeah.

And we've always said Fisker's designs are great. Just the businesses are a little shaky. I mean, the designs, I've been a big fan of like the Fisker Karma. It looks good. The Ocean, I'm kind of indifferent about it. Like it's not bad looking for me. It's not good looking, but I can see the appeal for some people. But I think the specs and pricing are always more of a more interesting thing about the Ocean than the design itself. Yeah.

all right uh question what would you do if you had a 2020 bolt we just got ours used and we're bummed about the software patch can you clarify if the lower limit at 70 miles remains so chevy had this old software patch where it wouldn't let you go below 70 miles of range and above uh 80 range which was kind of crappy but i think the new one lets you go down to zero again

And that's only for 6,000 miles or 10,000 miles, I think. And once that's over, they open it wide open or they give you a new battery pack. So it's not great. It's kind of a crappy situation. I think they could have done a lot better job there, but it's kind of is what it is. I'm assuming here, obviously, that you didn't already get the new battery pack. There was some news last week where Chevrolet said, we're not replacing the 2020 Bolt battery packs anymore unless...

You run the software for 10,000 miles and it says you need a replacement. So that was upsetting to a lot of people and I get it. So moving on, Nico D, make a poll for chat to see who would buy a Cybertruck. I think Tesla made a poll and there's like a million people. Yeah. I mean, we might do one for Tesla.

reservation holders once the new specs and pricing are released that would be more interesting so how many people change their mind once we have the actual production specs and pricing which we know is going to be vastly different from the originally announced 2019 ones all right question does model y buyer know if they're getting a 4680 or 2170 cells in their car i got confused when you described what's coming out of austin the 2680 chemistry confirmed and what is it well the

It's the standard range is not the word, but the base all-wheel drive one is the one with 4680 cells. That's our understanding. So all the other ones are 2170. So if you're buying this one, you should get the 4680. So you can get one from Texas, one or the other, but in terms of the standard range, the standard range is not the right world. It's just like the base all-wheel drive is the one with the 4680. That's our understanding. Okay.

All right. Uh, moving on Carl and San Diego continues. Escalade is a regrettable model in terms of ice making GM criminals and the bigification new word of vehicles for no good reason. Why is it okay for a Hummer and Escalade again? I kind of agree. Yeah. I mean, electric, they're replacing huge ICE vehicles. I get your point. Like you could make three or four bolts for every, uh, Hummer that comes off the line in terms of batteries and, uh,

you know weight and just like car but uh the other side is that people are buying these vehicles for yeah whatever reason yeah it's better yeah it's definitely better but my like i understand

Like if you're buying a Hummer EV in Virginia and like you're powering with coal, like yeah, you're not – it's better than having a gas or diesel or the Hummer, diesel or gas. But whatever, like the highest Hummers, it's going to be better than that, but it's still bad. Like obviously, you would need like a more efficient EV. That said, if you're buying an Hummer EV and driving it in Quebec, for example, where you're powering completely with a hydroelectricity, then it's not that bad.

The only thing that's worse, that makes it worse than a smaller car is the actual production capacity of it, like the battery and all the materials that go into making a bigger car. So that's not that big of a deal because over the lifetime of the car, it's minimal compared to the consumption. So in this case, hydroelectricity versus gasoline or diesel. Again, I don't know which one it is for the Hummer. And...

So that comes back instead of like, all right, so the question is more about the buyers. Why are they going towards that? And whatever the reason is, like changing those reasons to convince those people to buy a bolt instead, I feel like that's harder than making a compelling electric Hummer or electric Escalade. So for the environment, I think it's better to have Cadillac make those than...

trying to have some kind of societal change where it's cool to have we can try and we've been trying it electric i mean if you've been reading electric like half our oracles are about like micro mobility and all that and we are all on board with that you see this electric bike out there like i whenever i can i'll take that instead of taking my car and i have electric cars that drive on hydroelectricity so we're all on board on that but we're also not

like kidding ourselves that we're not the norm and we don't want also to like, what was the word? Patronizing people that like, we don't want to shame people that don't do it too. Like it's not, it's not, it's not a good way to approach things like that. So I think like having a technical solution that take care of the vast majority of the problem is a better approach than, than everything else.

All right. A few more questions, then we're going to talk Zuck and Musk in the ring, in the octagon. A question, which will come first, a TESA HVAC or a level four FSD? Wild speculation. I'm going to say HVAC. A little heat pump. A little heat pump for the... I think it's going to be a close race, maybe. Because I don't see the HVAC coming in the next two years, I think. Three years? Yeah. So, level four is not completely unachievable. Right.

You have to solve deadheading to make Robotaxi sensible. Transportation experts understood this a long time before Elon. Okay, so that's an opportunity to learn here. What's deadheading? I think it just means like idiots driving. Oh, yeah. I mean, you have to dumb proof everything, you see. Yeah.

Do you expect or hope that Tesla's will be able to detect each other on the road to improve safely and expedite FSD? Well, that actually goes against Tesla's entire approach. Tesla wants to replace a human driver. They are taking a human approach to it with vision and neural nets, so eyes and brains, what we used to...

to, um, to, to drive our cars today. And your eyes and brains don't really have that much opportunity to communicate with other people outside of, uh, uh, of your car. So there's the honking. So yes, there's going to be an aspect of automatic honking on a car and everything. There's, I guess there's some high contact and like you can wave, uh,

like at the stop if i have to stop sign at the same time it is good practice to help someone like go go ahead and all that there is uh companies have been working on on like a way for cars to communicate like that uh with a human unnecessarily with another car but now a car to car uh over like it would be smart at some point but that's not this is approach it sounds like all right uh

What do we think about NIO? They just presented the ET5 Touring and the L6 looks like well-designed and built, only worry China. Is it too dangerous buying a Chinese car, state-controlled, etc.? I mean, from everything I've seen from NIO, it looks pretty good. I've never been in one myself. I would love to because I'm trusting what's been reporting from China right now. And everything looks like great cars.

i wanted to get in one and confirm that myself before having a serious opinion on this uh yeah they're in uh norway and stuff so yeah yeah yeah maybe maybe there could check it out um i haven't been in china but uh yeah as for the state control thing i mean there's a lot of those now like it's it's you it's it's you have to deal with that when you buy from china like

All right. Clarification on deadheading. It's the empty half of a trip to get to you. So if you drive to the airport and pick somebody up, the drive to the airport is the deadheading. But why would that be a problem of driving half versus current? It's just extra distance, I guess. But I guess also a taxi driver actually has to be in the car, and that's not a useful thing.

bit of time anyway that's the last question let's head right into elon versus zuck in the octagon fred with the analysis we're gonna cap it at like five minutes all right obviously zuck is smaller but he's got some training elon bigger got the walrus move uh what do you got

So this has been living rent-free in my head for all week. I've been thinking about this way too much because if you guys don't know, like I know you guys know me more as an EV guy, but one of my other passions is martial arts, including MMA. And I've been delving into that world for years now. So this is sort of my two worlds colliding here. And I've been thinking about this way too much because in my view, first of all, I thought at first it was completely a joke because...

All right, Elon says that on Twitter. Okay, he says a lot of stupid things on Twitter. So it's just another joke he says on Twitter. And then Zuck responds on Instagram, of course, because that's another weird aspect of this whole thing where Elon is talking on Twitter and responding on Twitter, but responding from Instagram posts from Zuck because Zuck is only on Instagram and Facebook and not on Twitter. Well, I mean, he has a Twitter account, but he doesn't use it anymore since Elon bought it. Anyway.

It's this revelry of social media CEO, whatever. It's nonsense. But what Zuck responded, it was to a screenshot of that message of like, let's do an MMA fight. And he responded with, send me location. And then all the media went nuts. It's like, oh, they are agreeing to an MMA fight. I took it as a joke because send me location is a famous phrase that Khabib Namakomedov said about Conor McGregor when Conor attacked

the bus full of fighters in New York a few years ago. And because I'm thinking that Habib was in the bus and Habib responded to McGregor, he's like, you don't have to attack the bus, just send me location. I'm going to show up and we're going to fight. So he was using that as a joke. I don't think, I don't think, I'm not even sure that Zoc was serious at that point, but then Elon responded, he responded, Octagon Las Vegas, right?

And so either didn't get the joke or he's very serious about this. But then adding to everything that now confirming that they are actually serious about this is Dana White, the promoter of the UFC, saying that he talked to both of them and both of them are serious about it. And he's looking to make this happen and make it a hundred dollar pay-per-view for charity.

So now I'm conflicted because I think it's the dumbest idea ever. But at the same time, it could make a few, probably like two or three million buys, maybe even more at $100. It's a lot of money for charity. It's way better than those silly YouTubers. Yeah. No, that's the thing. No, it's not going to be a better fight. No, but it's going to be more entertaining.

I don't know if it's going to be so. That's the whole thing. Not for you because you like good UFC fighting. But for me, I just want to watch two old people punch each other. I don't know if you really know what it's going to look like. It's going to look bad. I know it's going to look bad. It's going to look so bad. I mean, Musk is 51. I'm 50 or almost 50. I know I was in a lot better shape when I was 39.

Yeah, but even then, you're on the Peloton every day and all that. From what I'm hearing from Elon Musk, and that's from his own words, he lost a bunch of weight recently, so that's good for him. But he said that he lost the weight with some anti-hunger medication and fasting. I'm a big fan of fasting. I fast all the time.

And it's good for you. It doesn't give you good cardio. You have to do exercise to get good cardio. And fighting is one of the most cardio extensive sports out there. Like it's, let's say it's like a three, five minute rounds. By minute two or three, depending on how thing goes, Elon's going to be dead. It's going to be dead and it's going to be so bad to watch.

So the way I'm thinking about this is like from Elon's perspective. Also, let's remember that Zuckerberg trains MMA at least a little. And I've seen some footage of him like play sparring and hitting the pads. He doesn't look bad. It looks like he has some decent technique. Like maybe he's been training for like a few years or

or a year somewhat extensively. And he's doing jujitsu. He's done a competition in the Bay Area, won the competition as a white belt. So he's not super advanced, but from what I've seen, he knows like the basics, he got his good basics. And that's puts you like way ahead. Like forget the Elon weight advantage. It's going to do nothing.

against zuck unless unless he has like six months of training or something like that but you have to keep in mind that the six months of training zuck use that to keep getting better like elon comes from basically nothing to that it's gonna be bad so there's two scenario that i will see this play out one zuck just walks through elon super quickly and elon just like looks like bad like and everything okay so that's not great for elon

And two is that we just get a terrible fight because both of them are not used to fighting, especially now on like big lights and all that and everything happening and being on big stage. It's so unnerving, especially like if it's a, you do it like a real MMA fights or I'm at our level with shin pads and maybe headgear. I don't know how they're going to do it, but yeah,

Like getting into your underwear and getting into a cage to fight someone is a surreal experience that most people don't want to get into for good reasons. And yeah,

I don't think he's thinking about that at all. So the only way it makes sense for me from Elon's perspective is that he's going full, like, it's assimilation. It's all a joke anyway. Let's be a clown and make fun of the entire situation and make some money for charity at the same time. If he's thinking like that, I'm all for it. But if he's thinking in any way that this is going to be the battle of the social media titan and you meet in the cage and they're going to give a good fight for the fan...

There's zero chance of that happening. Maybe Zuckerberg looks good a little bit and like getting along into a rear naked choke and get him out of there. And like that would be like the best situation possible for both of them, by the way. Like that would look okay. But I think the most likely situation is that

The fight is just sloppy as hell because they're both not used to this at all, especially Elon. And I sent to Elon this fight on Twitter that I said you should look at this. It's the Data 5000 versus Kimball Slice fight. Some of you might be familiar with Kimball Slice because he was famous at one point from street fighting on YouTube.

He's since unfortunately passed. And Kimbo Slice at that point, before that fight, had a few fights already, a

A few real MMA fights, I mean, not just like street fighting. He was in somewhat good shape visibly. Obviously not great cardio and you can watch the fight for that. Same for that at 5,000. But these are guys that I would put like way above Elon and Zuckerberg's level of fitness and fight readiness, let's say. And they delivered one of the worst looking fight of all time. Just terrible to watch. Just a complete force of a fight.

So if you're Elon and even Zuckerberg to a degree, I would ask yourself sensorily, like, do I think I can do better than these two?

And if not, which should be not if you're looking without bias at your own capabilities in terms of fighting, you should ask yourself, then do I want something that looks, do I want to deliver something that looks even worse than this Data 5000 versus Kimbo Slice fight? And I hope that the answer is no. Unless you're just like, I don't give a,

I don't give a hell about what this looks like. It's all about like, let's have fun and let's make some money for charity. That I'm okay with. But if you think that it's going to be like a fight that's going to be good for the sport of MMA, you can forget about that. I mean, I'm thinking about things like CM Punk. Like, did you remember when CM Punk went into the UFC for two fights? Yeah.

It was horrible to watch. And CM Punk is a trained athlete. He's an actual athlete. He's a trained athlete. And he had like a few years of BJJ and striking before that fight. And it looked horrible. Obviously, he was fighting guys like Mickey Gall and what was the other guy? Johnson, I think. That weren't necessarily bad. So that makes it worse. But

Do you think you can, like, Elon, do you think you're better than CM Punk at this? Like, think about it. So I agree. I think, but this also, like, the bigger thing is, like, you know how you would think somebody's telling Elon, hey, dude, no, don't do it. Don't stop. He doesn't have that person in his life. That's a good point. Yeah, that's sad. That goes across everything, but, like, in particular this.

Yeah, I've seen Lex Friedman go all in for it. I love Lex Friedman, but I'm like...

Like this, like he says, he said the BJJ fight at first, like I thought that was smart of Lex. All right, let's get them to do a BJJ fight. Zuck's going to walk through Elon, but at least it's not going to look as bad as like two grown men exhausted on their feet, throwing punches like that. So it's not going to look as bad. But then Elon said MMA. Lex was like, oh, that's even better. I'm like, Lex, come on. You know this. Lex is a black belt in jiu-jitsu. He's a serious jiu-jitsu.

martial art practitioner he knows this is gonna be ridiculous like why why do we want that out there i don't again unless you're approaching this whole thing as clowns like let's just be clown we're not there to entertain they're not we're they're we're all laughing together at us uh it's all just a joke and we make some money for charity that's great but i don't i don't know if that i don't know if it's that

I think it's just two grown men that are a bit delusional about what it takes to do an MMA fight. If anything, it could be good for the sport in terms of like this is what people think they can do it, but what's actually happening is pretty different. How about when Justin Trudeau fought boxing?

is this well that was stupid too but actually through though he had some boxing experience before that and it wasn't a good boxing fight no it wasn't it was not a good box but it wasn't awful either uh also but boxing is is a bit different where like you have two weapons and and it's it's just your uh i mean the footwork it takes a lot to learn and everything but

Both of these guys, like it was with a senator at the time, or soon-to-be senator, and both of them had some boxing experience. It wasn't that awful of a fight. It wasn't great either. But Elon, as far as we know, does nothing. And Zuck, as some, it's not going to be good. There's just no way around it. Especially for something that's going to be such a big fight. Dana White, who's the number one martial art promoter in the world,

say it's going to be the biggest fight ever so if he says that i believe him because he has more experience than anyone in promoting fights but deep but you know dana dana looks bad there because dana has always been about like i especially since the cm pumping cm punk sorry he's like i i don't want to do those fights i don't want to be doing like those like force of a fight i want to be doing the best versus the best well elon musk and zuckerberg are not the best versus the best they're the best maybe billionaires but they're not the best fighters out there

All right. Well, I think I've read on it. If we're doing this, like then I want to take like if it becomes the norm, I want to be the next one. I'll take I'll take the next biggest EV journalists out there. I'll challenge them to a cage match. Let's do it. Nice.

All right. Thanks a lot, everyone, for listening to the show this week. If you're still listening, I appreciate you. If you do enjoy the show, please give us a thumbs up, a like, a subscribe. It helps the show a lot. And it's free to do. It takes a second. If you're listening on a podcast app right now, Spotify, Apple, whatever it is, if you can give us a five-star review, that helps the show a lot. Only if you like the show, obviously. And it takes a second to do, free to do. And it helps the show a ton. So we appreciate every single one of you. And we're going to see you same place next time. Oh, it's not working.