cover of episode David Chalmers: The Hard Problem of Consciousness

David Chalmers: The Hard Problem of Consciousness

2020/1/29
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David Chalmers 详细阐述了意识的“困难问题”,即为什么会有伴随感官信息感知而产生的感觉。他认为,许多关注人工智能安全和伦理的人相信,某种形式的意识可以在未来的人工智能系统中被设计出来。虽然关于意识的许多谜团、分歧和发现还有待揭示,但这些本质上属于哲学范畴的讨论,对于现代人工智能系统的工程师来说,仍然可能非常重要。 Chalmers 探讨了模拟论,认为我们可能生活在模拟世界中,但这并不意味着这个模拟世界不是真实的。他提出了“现实 2.0”的概念,即使在模拟中,我们所感知到的世界仍然是真实的。他认为模拟理论是对“显像”(manifest image)下最终科学或形而上学现实的另一种假设,也是对“物自体”(thing in itself)本质的一种假设。 Chalmers 认为模拟我们宇宙的复杂性对我们来说存在明显的问题,即使宇宙是无限的。他认为模拟宇宙的宇宙不必与我们的宇宙相似,并提出了多层宇宙的可能性,认为零级宇宙可能是无限的,具有极高的集合论基数。 Chalmers 认为人类在智能的规模上处于非常低的位置,人类可能是智能发展的顶峰,也可能是其开端。他认为模拟大脑比模拟宇宙更容易,因为大脑是宇宙的一部分。他认为如果足够精确地模拟大脑,就能模拟意识,并且意识与信息处理模式有关,而不是其具体的生物学基础。 Chalmers 探讨了在虚拟世界中体验意识的可能性,认为在虚拟世界中,我们能否像在现实世界中那样拥有深刻的意识,取决于虚拟世界的复杂程度。他认为即使在虚拟现实中,也只有一个意识在体验不同的环境,要实现意识的真正分裂,需要比虚拟现实更激进的方法。 Chalmers 分享了他儿时患有联觉的经历,以及这种经历是如何消失的。他详细定义了意识,并阐述了意识的“困难问题”,即如何解释物理过程如何产生主观体验。他认为创造意识的过程类似于婴儿的诞生,虽然我们不知道确切的时刻,但我们确实看到了意识的诞生。 Chalmers 认为泛心论(panpsychism)是一种将意识视为现实基本构成要素的观点,并提出了一种“泛原初心论”(pan-proto-psychism)的可能性,即存在某种“原初意识”(proto-consciousness)作为意识的基础。他认为意识的出现使宇宙从无意义变得有意义,但生命的意义在于我们自身所赋予的价值。 Chalmers 认为意识是赋予事物价值的关键要素,并提出“僵尸电车难题”(zombie trolley problem),说明意识在道德判断中的重要性。他认为意识是决定一个系统是否具有道德地位的关键因素。他认为一个系统对自身意识的困惑,可以作为其具有意识的证据,但他不认为这是意识的必要条件。 Chalmers 认为图灵测试过于关注语言模仿,而忽略了意识的本质。他认为我们可能无法创造出意识的测试,因为我们对意识的理解是人类中心主义的。他认为社会互动、对话等能够帮助我们判断一个系统是否具有意识,并预测未来会出现一场类似民权运动的机器人权利运动。 Chalmers 认为克隆人也是有意识的个体,并探讨了自由意志与意识的关系,认为即使在决定论的宇宙中,我们仍然可以拥有某种形式的自由意志。他认为意识本身可能是一种错觉,但这种观点与我们存在的根本数据相矛盾。 Chalmers 认为笛卡尔的恶魔可能是善意的,并且即使世界是模拟或梦境,这并不意味着它不是真实的。他认为,如果我们能够分离出意识在物理世界中的特定作用,这将对人工智能的能力产生影响。 Chalmers 讨论了有意识的智能生物构成的存在性威胁,认为如果所有意识都被消灭,那将是一场严重的道德灾难。他认为,如果意识自然地伴随着人工智能系统出现,那么人类可能只是进化过程中的一个阶段。他表达了对未来人工智能和虚拟现实发展的乐观态度,并表示愿意选择永生。

Deep Dive

Key Insights

Why does the hard problem of consciousness exist?

The hard problem of consciousness exists because it questions why subjective experiences accompany awareness of sensory information. Physical processes in the brain can explain behavior, but they don't explain why these processes result in conscious experiences.

What is the difference between the manifest image and the scientific image?

The manifest image is the simplified and distorted version of reality we perceive, such as colors and shapes. The scientific image is the deeper, more accurate representation of reality, involving fundamental physics like atoms, quantum wave functions, or superstrings.

Why do you think the simulation hypothesis is relevant to understanding reality?

The simulation hypothesis is relevant because it raises questions about our knowledge of the external world and the nature of reality. If we are in a simulation, it doesn't mean nothing is real; it means we need to understand what reality is made of in a new way.

Why might it be possible to simulate consciousness in virtual reality?

Simulating consciousness in virtual reality might be possible if the consciousness is tied to patterns of information processing rather than specific biological substrates. High fidelity simulations of brains or sophisticated AI systems could potentially produce conscious experiences.

Why do you think consciousness is not tied to a specific biological substrate?

Consciousness is not tied to a specific biological substrate because it seems to be more about the patterns of information processing. If you can replicate these patterns in a non-biological substrate, consciousness could emerge.

Why do you think free will is compatible with a deterministic universe?

Free will is compatible with a deterministic universe if we consider it as the ability to do what we want and create our own futures, rather than the ability to violate the laws of physics. This view, called compatibilism, allows for responsibility and control even in a determined world.

Why is the concept of a zombie in philosophical terms useful?

The concept of a philosophical zombie is useful because it helps us explore the nature of consciousness. A zombie is a being that is physically and functionally identical to a conscious being but lacks subjective experiences, which raises questions about what makes us conscious.

Why would the creation of conscious AI systems be morally significant?

The creation of conscious AI systems would be morally significant because conscious beings can suffer, have meaningful experiences, and deserve moral consideration. If we create AI that is conscious, it would have the same moral status as humans.

Why do you think panpsychism, the idea that consciousness is a fundamental property of reality, is intriguing?

Panpsychism is intriguing because it suggests that consciousness is a fundamental aspect of the universe, like space and time. If we can't explain consciousness using existing fundamentals, adding consciousness as a primitive property could help solve the hard problem of consciousness.

Why do you think the future of consciousness and AI excites you?

The future excites me because it offers the possibility of rich virtual realities, mind uploading, and consciousness enhancement. It could lead to transformative experiences and potentially immortality, allowing for continuous learning and engagement in an infinitely interesting universe.

Shownotes Transcript

David Chalmers is a philosopher and cognitive scientist specializing in philosophy of mind, philosophy of language, and consciousness. He is perhaps best known for formulating the hard problem of consciousness which could be stated as "why does the feeling which accompanies awareness of sensory information exist at all?"

This conversation is part of the Artificial Intelligence podcast. If you would like to get more information about this podcast go to https://lexfridman.com/ai or connect with @lexfridman on Twitter, LinkedIn, Facebook, Medium, or YouTube where you can watch the video versions of these conversations. If you enjoy the podcast, please rate it 5 stars on Apple Podcasts, follow on Spotify, or support it on Patreon.

This episode is presented by Cash App. Download it (App Store, Google Play), use code "LexPodcast". 

Here's the outline of the episode. On some podcast players you should be able to click the timestamp to jump to that time.

00:00 - Introduction 02:23 - Nature of reality: Are we living in a simulation? 19:19 - Consciousness in virtual reality 27:46 - Music-color synesthesia 31:40 - What is consciousness? 51:25 - Consciousness and the meaning of life 57:33 - Philosophical zombies 1:01:38 - Creating the illusion of consciousness 1:07:03 - Conversation with a clone 1:11:35 - Free will 1:16:35 - Meta-problem of consciousness 1:18:40 - Is reality an illusion? 1:20:53 - Descartes' evil demon 1:23:20 - Does AGI need conscioussness? 1:33:47 - Exciting future 1:35:32 - Immortality