#453 – Javier Milei: President of Argentina – Freedom, Economics, and Corruption
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The following is a conversation with heavier male, the president of argentina. He is a libertarian, an aro capitalist and economist who campaigned with a chainsaw that symbolized his promise, the slashed the corrupt bureaucracy of the state he stabbed into the presidency one year ago. With the country on the brink of hyperinflation, deep debt and suffering from mass unemployment and poverty, he took this crisis head on, transforming one of that, america's largest economies, through pure free market principles. In just a few months in office, he already achieved argentine's first fiscal surplus in sixteen years and not just avoid hyperinflation, but brought inflation down to its slowest in three years.

What is cost? All of this in detail, both the successes in the chAllenges, his depth of knowledge of economic principles, metrics day was truly impressive and refreshing to hear from a world leader, but even bigger than the economic transformation of argentina, heavier represents the universal fight against government corruption and the fight for freedom, economic freedom, political freedom and freedom of speech. He has many critics, many of whom, apart of the corrupt establishment, he's seeking to this metal, but many are simply argentinean citizens scared to the pain this radical policies may bring, at least in the short term.

But whether one disagrees with his methods or not, no one can deny that his presidency Marks one of the most ambitious attempts and economic transformation in modern history, and that heavier malee is truly a force of nature. Combining the revenue economist with a passion of a revolutionary in the fight for freedom of a nation he loves. Argentina is one of my favourite countries, so I sincerely hope he succeeds.

This interview was conducted with the president making spanish and me speaking english with an interpreter. Simultaneously translating. We make the episode available over doubt and subtitled in both english spanish.

Thanks to our great friends at eleven labs. If you're watching on youtube, you can switch between english and spanish by clicking the gear icon, selecting audio track and choosing the language same with the captions. If you're watching on eggs, i'll post both spanish and english version separately.

If you watching a spotify or listening elsewhere, i'll probably only post english version. This is the first time for me doing something like this in a foreign language. IT was chAllenging but illuminating.

I hope to continue talking to many world leaders for two to three hours in this way, including volunteers, landskip, vanua a putin, the render mode and seizing ping. I want to explore who they are, how they think and how they hope to help their country and humanity flourish. Now, a quick few second mention of sponsor.

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And the person has said, is down for dinner, said after human an a doctor tea, mr. freeman. And I kind of teased them about IT, but obviously I do have being called mistered.

Please never call me doctor and also just call me like really doesn't matter. And definitely I don't think of myself nor do I think I am a celebrity and who they have a special black friday offer. If you go to a counselleth and use code legs, you will get up to six hundred dollars off your part for ultra purchase when bundled LED.

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There's a depth of insight about how much should take entrepreneurs care about government, about the way government works, about a how to communicate with politicians, all that kind of stuff, in order to have some regulation, but not too much regulations can build eps shit without government getting in the way unnecessarily, actually. Uh, company eleven labs that help with the translation and the dubbing for this episode is incredible. Group of fox, great engineers.

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This episode brought you by Better help spell the H E L P, help they figure out what you need a match with the license, their percent under forty eight hours. I was really pumped talking to a president heavy milla about life. Frankly, I could probably ly talk to for many more hours such a brilliant, but sort of a kind hearted warm person on mike.

But I got a just attracted a bunch before, after off my king. Just a warm person, just a human being who saw me, who noticed me, who smiled and just had this way. That's not just maybe a fake chroma, is a real human Christmas and a nervousness and joy, all that together.

And my, a brilliant, brilliant book by set of principles and a desire to see freedom win. And so there is a sense that freedom is a powerful force for the human mind. So a lot of our conversation is focus on economic bt.

The responsibility in the possibility of taking control of your own destiny is a powerful idea, is an american idea. And there are many other places in the world that are captivated by that idea, and he's one of the great illustrators and implementation of that idea. I love argentina, so I hope that he succeeds.

Anyway, all that that says freedom is good for the mind. And another thing that's good for the mind is Better help check the model, Better help that slash legs and save in your first month. That's Better.

Hope that conscience h like this episode is brought you by A G one and all in one daily drink to support Better health and peak performance. You know what? I drinked you one after I drink age you one after a long soccer. A K, A football game used to play a lot of both soccer and foobar obviously play a lot of soccer in the childhood. I say that obviously, because most of the world at the united states, that's kind of the support that every kid plays because is so accessible anywhere.

Was a big fan of the ago aramon do madona when I was growing up and just um seeing the world cups when he played the famous goal the century and the have got go just the ora and the genius in the fuel he had was mazama zing and just inspiring for a kid don, when mi came around. I think I first saw when he was a in the youth league seventeen, maybe sixteen, seven 的， he was just in there something else there was just genius there and I do consider a huge gift to humanity that he know his, his genius only developed a group. IT flourished.

And IT was a tragedy that he didn't win the world up for the longest time. I didn't help argentina in the work up until, while very recently, what you did, and he completed, he won everything you could possibly win. And that was such a beautiful sort of historic moment, the greatest player of all time.

Clear our messy, in my opinion, in most people's opinion. And I do hope to talk to him in this experiment, this chance. I got to talk to have a malay, uh, with an interpreter and all this mess, and apologize if I school at all up in different ways.

I really tried. I tried to figure out how we can make a most successful for both english, spanish speakers, all that kind of stuff, all that had to come together in just a handful of days, that the three days I had to figure all out, never done anything like that. So this server, bolden me, gave me confidence.

This possible to do in there is, of course, I spend a speaker that I would very much love to talk to. And his name, like I said, is leana mercy. And so now i'm a little bit more confident that that is something I could handle if given opportunity.

And I hope to celebrate him properly. If I have to get a chance to speak with him anyway, try out if you want. We'll give you one month supply a fishel when you sign up a drink if you want to come slash legs. This episode is also about you by element, my daily zero sugar and delicious electoral mix. I should also say that I don't get a chance of place soccer that much these days, and i'm not sure why.

I think for couple of years at a few injuries like slight injuries related to judicial that made through the sprinting and maybe the fast turning and the piping and the planting of feed, all that kind of stuff for many hours of the time, difficult, or rather 是 say， I was trying to let the injuries heal, and I put a lot of soccer, they just wouldn't heal. The socket is as sport, one of my favorite sports, participate in. And as a form exercise, IT makes time just disappear, like I can do sprint after sprint, after sprint, running around the field for hours, and like a little kid still, I just forget time.

You don't realize how much are you burn. You don't think about anything you don't like, how the how you are you full of joy and the competition, the excitement, the maybe he puts me right back there to all the the foot, all games i've wash as a kid like i'm now pretending to be marta. I'm not pretending to billionaires. M now pretend to be all those sort of superstars and enjoying the fun of IT.

Yeah.

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By the way, you know, this is the first time i'm trying something like this. The episode on publishing on this audio feed is a english dumped audio track, and the voice clone is done by A I thank you for a great help. Thank you for the help of the great eleven labs team.

And there's a lot human and loop, improving the translation, improving the voice, all that kind of stuff. But i'm not sure what kind of thing makes you a pleasant experience for just audio listeners. And I primarily myself usually, and R, S.

Audio listener. So I really care about this medium of podcasting. IT is the original, the main to me, way to a consume park cast freedom as holier said, vivo a liberta at a hole.

yeah. Ah, I truly believe that R. S. Is freedom. That's what podcasting is all about. This is like treatment podcast. To support IT, please check out our sponsors in the description. And now, dear friends, his harvey malaya.

When did you first understand the value of freedom, especially economic freedom?

Well, actually, I came to understand the ideas of freedom as an economic growth specialist back in the years of two thousand and thirteen to two thousand fourteen.

I could see that per capital GDP statistics over the last two thousand years of the Christian era essentially look like a hockey stick, indicating that per capital GDP remained almost constant until around eighty one hundred, after which is accelerated sharply in the same context of that phenomenal increase in productivity. And per capital GDP, the population had multiplied seven fold over the proceeding two hundred years. So basically in economics, that means you get increasing returns.

And the presence of increasing returns implies the existence of mono police concentrated structures. And according to traditional new classical economic theory, the presence of mono police and concentrated structures is not a good thing, but at the same time, one could see that living standards had increased tremendously, and that middle income people ended up living far Better than emperors did in the roman era. And the population had gone from having ninety five percent of people in extreme poverty to less than ten percent.

And in that context, the question was how I could be that something that had lifted so many people out of poverty, that IT improved human condition so much, could be something bad for economic theory, meaning something was not right. So in that context, I remember that one of the people who worked on my team suggested I read an article by murray newton rothbart called monopoly and competition. I remember reading IT like IT was today.

And after reading IT carefully, I said everything i've thought about market structure in the last twenty years in courses on MC economics is wrong. This caused a very strong internal commotion in me. So I call this person who used to work with me, and they recommended a place to buy australian school of economics s books.

And I remember I bought at least twenty or thirty books, which I went to pick up one saturday afternoon. And when I visited the bookstore, I was fascinated by all the stuff they had there. So I went back the next day, and I started calculating how much money I needed to pay for my dog's food, that's my four left child, and how much I needed to spend on the taxi fair and food.

And then with what I have left, I spent all of IT on more books. And then I started to read very intensively. And I remember, for example, the experience of reading human action by mis.

And this was a book that I didn't know about. And I remember that on the following weekend, I started to read this book, write from the first page, and I didn't stop until I finish IT. And that was a true revolution in my head.

And having the chance to read austria's authors like rothbart, mss, haik, hope, and he sues rather, the soto, or others like hana andro, Philip goes and walter block, for example, that was very inspirational. And at one point I got the opportunity related to the works of Albert vanik, lj and I also had the pleasure and honor to meet him. And today we are actually friends.

So that paved the way for me to approach the ideas of freedom. And another book that was a very significant influence and impact on me was the principles of political economics by manager IT was truly eye opening, or lets say, for reading organ from beyon barrack. These were things that really, that I really chAllenged all of my formal thinking.

I had a vogue idea and poor about the austrian school. The only thing I had read about the australian school until then had been money in time, a very good book by garson. But but now that I understand a little bit more about austrian economics, I know that IT was rather poor. This doesn't mean that the book isn't good, but there were a whole lot of things to read that ended up being truly fascinating.

So from that, what is now, today, and maybe you can talk about the evolution, is your philosophy and economics philosophy. You've described yourself as an arco capitalist, market anarchist, libertarian, does the ideal. And then maybe in practice, in reality, you ve said that you're more a mineralists. So late all out. What's your economic philosophy today?

Strictly speaking, I am an an arcos italian. I despise the state government. I despise violence. Let us suppose we take the definition of liberalism.

I usually use the definition of liberalism given by Alberta gas in iho, which is very much in line with the definition of john lock, which essentially matches the definition by Alberto benign linch junior, who said, the liberalism is the unrestricted respect for the life project of others based on the principle of non aggression and in defense of the right to life, liberty and property. So I frame all of the discussions within those terms. And the fact is that when you get to that notion, I would dare say that you become an ano capitalist.

Fact, though, and what that describes IT is an idea which represents my ideal world. I mean, that is the ideal world. Now, real life poses a whole lot of restraint, and some of those you can lift, and those restrictions, and others you can't.

So in real life, via a minor chist, I advocate for minimise state size. I try to remove as many regulations support possible. In fact, that is what I used to say during my campaign.

And let's say that is what I now Carrying out. We have just Carried out the largest structural reform in argentine history. IT is the structural reform that is eight times larger than many names, which had been the largest structural reform in history. And we did that with fifteen percent of the representatives and ten percent of the senators. Furthermore, we have a deregulation ministry where basically every day we eliminate between one and five regulations.

On the other hand, we have three thousand, two hundred additional structural reforms, spending, to the point that the day we finish all these reforms, we will be the freest country on the planet with the consequences they have in terms of well being. Think about this, when ireland started market reforms just over forty years ago, IT was the poorest country in europe. Today it's G D P per capital is fifty percent higher than that of the united states.

So this um I have a current situation and what I am constantly looking for, whether from my academic works and my outrage notes and books, easy world we have today, that every day we are closer, that every day we get more freedom because there are some very interesting things here. First, I would like to quote milton freemen. There is a moment when they do an interview with milton freeman and they ask him about liberals, and then he says that there are three types of liberals.

There are the classical liberals where, for example, adam Smith or milton freeman himself could fit. Some say that higher could fit into that category. For me, higher is a minor chest.

Then you have the minor kiss, where you could clearly find in that place. mr. Highe, one could find, in philosophical terms, no sick. And basically, I land.

And at one point, milton freeman, based on his own son, he says, but if you look closely, there are some who are energies, let's say, probably, from my point of view, the person who has been the greatest inspiration in my life is essentially muri newton rosebird. So therefore, there, there are two dimensions. One is where I want to go, and the topic is where I stand.

So the most important thing is to try each day to advance further to what that ideal of an al capitalism in that sense. Sometimes we face strong and harsh criticism regarding that ideal vision. I think that's of on a fallacy.

If you compare yourself against paradise, everything is horrible and miserable, but you don't live in paradise. You live on earth. Basically, what you need to understand is something called the state conditions.

Let's suppose that you don't like rectangular tables. You prefer circular tables. Now, the reality is, I have only a few hours until I go and catch my flight.

And the table is rectangular. You like a circular table around one, but there is no one. What you have is a rectangular table.

So either we do the interview here or we just can't do IT. So what you do, you adapt to the current conditions. This is what there is now. So then you have some restrictions that you can change and others that you cannot.

The idea is to modify all the ones that can be changed in the short term and start working on those that can be modified in the medium or long term. For example, for example, if you really like ground tables, perhaps the next interview we may do at a round table, we're going to try and solve IT. But today is something that we couldn't possibly solve.

So that's basically the idea, right? Let's say it's about understanding that some restrictions you can change, others you can. And there are institutional restrictions, too. There are many an article capitalists who are dedicated to, and incredibly, they do so with more violence towards liberals. And many of them actually criticize me, which truly make no sense, because IT is precisely the ivana fallacy.

But the reality is that a look, innocent, tina, for example, the most popular sports soccer, when you go to watch an argentina match, IT is beautiful. The stands are full, and they are all painted with sky blue and White colors. There is a lot of joy.

People sing songs that are very fun, that are very distinctive, very it's very much part of argenton follow, so to speak. But you see that beautiful show is external. That is to say, IT does not determine the outcome.

You place the ball in the middle of the field, and no matter how much people shot, the ball doesn't move. The one who moves the ball and scores the goals is messy. So what do I mean if you don't get involved and don't get into IT? No, you don't do anything.

So I mean, what do I know is that there are many liberals, libertarians and anew capitalists who are really useless, because all they do is criticize, let's say, those of us who wanna lead the world towards the ideas of freedom. And what they don't realize is that power is a zero sum game. And if we don't have IT, then the left will have IT.

Therefore, if you level your harshest criticism at those in your own ranks, you end up being subserving to socialism probably. And also, for instance, you have cases of strong hypocras y lets say I have seen cases of augmented I mean, it's the narrow capitalist who criticize rough part because he said that you have to get into politics, otherwise the socialists will advance. And it's interesting because some of them I have seen them criticizing proposing algorithm.

And I remember one of them one day, the police showed up, and honestly, he was playing himself. So I mean, it's very easy to criticize, proposed and suggest, but if he was truly such an agonist, he should have been willing to endure going to jail. However, when I was time to face the consequences of the idea he was promoting, he froze, wet his pants and ended up, let's say, accepting all the restrictions, because clearly, IT was Better to be out of jail than in jail. But in doing so, he sold out his ideas. So IT seems to me that, no, not taking into account the restrictions of the situation only serves to be functional to socialism, because all IT does IT strike against ones own.

So you became president eleven months ago. Can you again described some of the actions you took? For example, you could have have the number of government ministries layoff s removed, Price controls. You'll be interesting to layout the first steps and what's next.

If you allow me, I will first give you a description of the situation we received. And based on that, I will tell you each of the things we did when a we first took office, basically what we found was that in the first week of december, inflation was rising at the rate of one percent per day, which means three thousand seven hundred percent annually.

In the first half of december, IT had accelerated to seven thousand five hundred percent annually. When you look at wholesale inflation in december of last year, IT was fifty four percent, which if annualize, would equate to an inflation rate of seventeen thousand percent per year. And in addition, argentina for the previous ten years had not been growing with a drop in G, D.

P. Per capital of approximately fifteen percent. And the reality was that nearly fifty percent were living in poverty.

Now later I will get deeper into that discussion. And the reality is that we had a fiscal deficit which amounted to fifteen percent of G. D. P. Five points were in the treasury, ten points were in the central bank, which was in orginally monetary issuance.

And the reality is that we also had interest bearing liabilities at the central bank equivalent to four monetary basis matured in one day, meaning we could have quintile the amount of money in one day we had pay so denominated maturities amounting to the equivalent of ninety billion dollars. The central bank had negative net currency foreign reserves minus twelve billion dollars. We had commercial deaths in the central bank equivalent to fifty billion dollars.

There were company dividends held back amounting to ten billion dollars. Therefore, if we, if we had instantly opened up, you see, I say we are liberal libertarians. We are not liberal fools.

That's what some anarchist liberal suggested, meaning that we basically open everything on the first day. So in that, in that context, of course, if we had done that, we would have encountered hyper inflation. Therefore, that would have had to the number of poor people being around ninety five percent.

And probably, and by december, the colonies party would have organized supermarket and would have done all sorts of things and would have probably been ousted. And by the first part of the year, the colonies would have gone back to office. So to us, IT was crucial to fiscal deficit.

One of the things we promised during the campaign had been to reduce the number of ministries, and indeed, we reduced to less than half the number of ministries because we went to nine ministries. today. We have eight.

We have also laid off a large number of civil employees today. I can say that we've already dismissed about fifty thousand of them, and we we practically don't renew any contracts unless the positions absolutely necessary. At the same time, we have stopped public works and we have eliminated directionally transfers to the provinces.

We have also diluted public sector wages. Also, we have eliminated economic subsidies by restoring utility rates to the right levels. And well a well and in that, lets say in this context, we achieved fiscal baLance.

As far as the treasury is concerned, this is very important because in the last one hundred twenty three years, argentina had a deficit for one hundred thirteen of them. And in the ten years, he did not have a deficit because he was not paying the debt. So that was absolutely false.

And they told us IT would be impossible to do that. We had planned to do so within a year, and they said that wasn't possible to adjust by more than one percentage point. And we achieved fiscal baLance in the month of january. That is the first month of administration. At the same time, we also cut social plans link to intermediation.

This is very important because we knew we were going to make a very tough adjustment, and we knew that this was going to have accounting, social terms, and we knew that we had to offer support during the first month, I mean, the first quarter and second quarter in office. One of the things we did was to eliminate what are known as poverty managers, that is, intermediates. Basically, people have a guard through which they receive assistance.

But IT happens that they had to provide a counter service. And that counter service was verified by a group called the picket eros. So in that context, when they were going to sign, the counter service took away half of the money.

So by removing that pay off, they stopped exhorting them stop stealing their money. And with the same amount of money, they receive double the resources. And of course, we also provided additional boost. So let's say that this is related to the five adjustment points in the treasury.

Now what happens as we began to achieve fiscal baLance and no longer needed to issue money to finance ourselves, and as we also met interest payments and some capital repayments, one of the things that happened is that the dead market began to be recreated. So we were able to take dead out of the central bank and transfer IT to the treasury where they should have always been. And that meant an adjustment of approximately ten percent of GDP.

Everyone said this would be impossible and couldn't be fixed. Essentially, what we did was implement a fiscal adjustment at the central bank amounting to ten percent of GDP. So if you ask me, it's clear that we have not only made the biggest fiscal adjustment in the history of humanity because we made the fiscal adjustment of fifteen points of the GDP, but also most of that went back to the people as less senior age as a lower inflation rate is true that we temporarily raise the country tax, but we loaded in september.

And now in december, we are going to eliminate today. For example, we also announced that in december, we are eliminating import taxes. In fact, in that in that regard, what you have is that we return to the people thirteen and a half points of GDP because the real tax burden is the size of the state.

So while back in december we were discussing hyperinflation, today we are discussing thirty year loans. In other words, all those resources that the national government used to take are now back in the private sector. And that's what has allowed IT to be very dynamic.

And this has two very strong impacts. The first one is that if you look at wholesale inflation, IT went down from fifty four percent to two percent. So IT went down by twenty seven times.

IT was divided into twenty seven. So we had inflation at a rate of seventeen thousand percent annually, and it's now close to about twenty eight percent a year. But is not only that you could consider consumer inflation, the latest consumer inflation rate was two point seven percent.

Now IT happens that we essentially due to a matter that is related to the central bank's baLance sheet and also due to the dead stocks, we still have controls in place, and we are eliminating restrictions day by day. Now the interesting thing is that we have a two percent monthly evaluation standard, and there's international inflation, of course, which means that you then have to subject two and a half points from the inflation observed by the consumer. This indicates that inflation in argentina, the true inflation, not the induced one, but the actual monetary inflation, is zero point two percent per months at zero point two per cent per month.

This equate to two point four percent annually. What i'm saying is the original discussion was about whether inflation could reach seventeen thousand percent. Now we are bringing inflation down to levels of two point five percent annually, and that is amazing.

And we achieve this by considering a number of factors. The first one is that we did not experience a previous hyper inflation, which would have simplified the process of implementing a stabilization program. Typically, when hyperinflation occurs, monetary assets are diluted, leading to a natural restoration of demand.

And besides, we did not resort to any expropriation. For example, before the convertibility plan, which was the most successful programme in argentine's history, argentina experiences two instances of hybrid inflation. During alpha scene administration, inflation reach five thousand percent, and under man him, IT was one thousand two hundred percent.

Additionally, there was the bone explain under which dead was exchange on a compulsory basis. In other words, what we did instead was clean up the central bunk baLance sheet. So with that, we we cleaned up the central bank's baLance sheet.

We cleared a loss of forty five billion dollars, all voluntarily. And the most amazing thing is that we did IT in just six months, and at the same time, we have not control Prices nor have we fixed the exchange rate. And this is very important.

All previous stabilization programs, in an effort to show quick results, used to do this. What they would do is before announcing the plan, they would adjust the rates. And once the rates were adJusting, they would launched the plan.

But in our case, we couldn't afford that luxury. So we had to implement IT on the go. And also, over the last few months, studies to say companies brought in rates that covered only about ten percent.

Well as today, they cover eighty. And so you get the picture. Just imagine the adjustment we are making. And in that sense, IT is also incredible what we have achieved because if we were to work with the inflation we have in our country today, considering the exchange rate situation, the figures are even Better than during the comfortability program, which was the most successful economic program in argentine's history.

And in fact, there is an article called passing the buck, which is by sheraton dela a, about solely and every going that demonstrates that manning's first government was the best government in history. And basically, IT argues two things in the success of the stabilization of the convertibility program. So if you take a closer look when you examine IT carefully, when you account for all these factors, our disinflation process is actually much more genuine.

And not only that, it's also much deeper. We are restored freedoms to our continent while simultaneously implementing a structural reform eight times larger. And we accomplish this with only with fifteen percent of the representatives, ten percent of the senators, and within the first six months of government.

In other words, our deregulation agenda continues daily, and we still have three thousand two hundred structural reforms pending. This will ultimately make argentina the freest country in the world. Moreover, to have a sense of magnitude, the reforms that we already have made with the executive for seventy, twenty three and with the basic law, we have actually jumped ninety places in terms of economic freedom.

What this means is that today, argentina has institutions similar to those of germany, france, italy. And we obviously want this to continue. And let's say, we are going to surpass, no doubt, the levels of economic freedom that ireland reached in its best moment.

And not only that, we're going to exceed the levels of economic freedom of australia, new zealand and switzerland. We are douteless going to be the freest country in the world. And this and this means that, thanks to what we've done today, we are on a path that allows us to multiply our per capital GDP by two point five times when you apply the relevant correction.

And this, of course, is something very interesting because IT implies a huge increase in well being. And furthermore, today, the argentinean economy is already strongly and amazingly recovering. And we can say analysts hypothesis were suggesting that next year we would be growing between five and six percent.

Today, J. P. Morgan has now corrected or let's say, revise the projection stock wards. And besides, when we Normalize the Price situation, the troop poverty rate came up, and IT was fifty seven percent in january.

Today, IT is a forty six percent, meaning we lowered poverty by eleven percentage points, let's say, I mean, IT seems truly like a miracle. And not only that, but actually not a single job was lost in the process. When IT comes to all of this inflation reduction process, people said that our economy and economic activity would collapse.

And actually, when you look at the d seasonal zed data, you see that in August, there was a recovery that took us back to december levels. To december levels. That means that in the year, we made the largest fiscal adjustment in the history of humanity.

We will end up with less inflation, fewer poor people, Better real wages and additionally, a GDP higher than what we started with. And if you look at IT in dollars, I can assure you that the numbers are phenomenal because basically today, the dollar is below the levels we had when we took coffees. So the reality is that in all of this, when you take my popularity levels and the government's acceptance levels today, they are above the moment we assumed office.

If you know that the moment of maximum popularity is when you take office. Therefore, this means that far from resting on our laurels with this, we're going for more reforms. We're going to deepen the reforms. And I tell you, we won't stop until argentina is the freest country in the world. Furthermore, a recent work by an argentinean economist's named one public, li colli, was presented at the central bank's monetary meetings, and he works at the federal reserve.

And it's interesting because he shows that only on the basis of what we done in fiscal matters, that ensures that in the span of ten years, we can double the GDP per capital, meaning that argentina could grow at rates of seven percent annually, which is very much, very much. And that has strong consequences in terms of improving quality of life, reducing poverty, reducing indians. Therefore, if during the worst moment, our image didn't suffer and we stayed strong in our ideas, now that everything is working much Better, why should we change?

On the contrary, we are ready to redouble the bed, to redouble our efforts because we've done things that no one else has done. I will give you an example. There is something that seems trivial, but there's what's called the single paper ballot.

Argentina used to vote with huge ballots, which were very, above all, very costly. And that reform IT never, lets say IT wasn't done because IT always harmed the ruling party. So everyone talked about going to the single paper ballot, but no one did IT when they were empower.

They didn't want to implement IT because they preferred to commit fraud or use some kind of trickery to avoid applying that rule that makes the election more competitive. Well, what's interesting, we sent that law and IT was approved. What's more now we are finishing with the open, simultaneous ous and Mandatory primaries.

Because IT was a mechanism by which politics was also stealing. We are eliminating the financing of political parties. If you look, we have reduced the fiscal pressure by fifteen points to the argentinians.

We are restoring freedoms with a deep set of structural and regulatory reforms. That is, I think that any sensible liberal. Could perceive we are already delivering a wonderful government. In fact, is the best government is the history of archenemy. If the best had been that of men, him, we've already outpaced him.

Maybe you can explain to me the metrics of poverty and unemployment is, he said, unemployment went down, real unemployment went down, real poverty went down. But even that aside would have been the most painful impacts of these radical reforms. And how many of them are required in the short term to have a big positive impact in the long term?

Let's take a step by step, right? That is, we, in fact, we started to do things right. Therefore, we did not create poverty.

The poverty was an inherited poverty. The point is that what we did was to reveal IT. I'll try to explain IT with an example that I think clarifies what's happening in argentina.

Argentina was an economy that had a total Price controls. IT had a fiscal deficit, which was finances through money printing. Just for you to give you an idea, in the last year, argentina finance thirteen points of the growth domestic product with money printing, in other words, a real disaster.

So that situation provoke this artificially demand and puts pressure on Prices. The issue is that Price controls are applied additionally over the Prices that they enter. The Price index with which inflation was i'm not saying they were lying about IT.

IT was distorted. And since argentina measures poverty and indigents by income line, then what happens that they started the true levels of poverty, of course, but that's not the only effect. I mean, let's say the real poverty levels were higher, quite a bit higher than those shown by the previous government, which showed them at forty one percent and also did so on a six monthly basis.

So if you, let's say, have a growing trend, they're actually leaving you a bomb and you don't see IT because let's say basically, the indicator was measured with a delayed form. But not only that, imagine that you are also given you are in the middle of an island alone and they give you one million dollars. What can you do with that? You cannot do anything because you cannot buy anything is the same as if someone tells you that the Price of glasses is ten dollars, but when you want to buy IT, it's not available.

Actually, there's a joke toll by an argentinian professor, me, who says that a man goes to a bazar and ask for a vast. Then he says to him, well, I want that bus. How much would you charge me? Then he says, five thousand dollars.

Oh, okay, five thousand dollars. But why five thousand dollars? If across the street is one thousand, he says, we'll go back across the street for a thousand.

Are there's none for a thousand. Well then here, when there's more IT also cost a thousand in other worlds Prices at which they are available. So what happens when you are faced with that situation? The supermarket shelves were empty.

So what was the point of having a Price at which you couldn't buy anything? You left those Prices, the shelves were empty. So the statistics show that you are much Better.

But the reality is you couldn't buy anything. You couldn't make that happen. So if you left the situation as IT was, people were going to starve because they couldn't buy anything. Yes, they had a certain amount of money that could supposedly buy certain goods, but those goods were not available.

What what is the only thing you can do to save people, make the Prices transparent and allow products to reappear? Well, when you make the Prices transparent, you also make transparent the cost of the basic food basket and the tota basic basket, meaning the poverty line, yes, sorry, the indigenes line and the poverty line, respectively. And when you do that clearly, you will see a jump in poverty that brought poverty up to fifty seven percent.

Now, argentina found its activity floor in the months of fail. From that moment, argentina began to invent a class recovery. Real wages have been growing every month above inflation.

Therefore, nominal wages are beating inflation. In fact, we are already at level similar to those we had in november. The same goes for pensions.

Moreover, also, lets say there is a rebound in activity due to the recovery of the stocks cycle. Therefore, this is also contributing to more and Better paid jobs. In fact, this is so strong and evident that the wages growing the most are in the informal sector.

This means that poverty and extreme poverty are decreasing much faster than we imagine. But not only that, by eliminating inflation, you remove the inflation redux, but the real burden is the fiscal deficit, which was fifteen points of the GDP. Okay, we temporarily raise the country tax.

Now we lower IT, but we return that to the argentineans. We gave back fifteen points of the G D P. Not only that, but also when you eliminate inflation, you remove the distortion of Prices.

Therefore, the allocation of resources is much Better, not only that, but also with a strong fiscal adjustment we made. We have reduced the country risk from three thousand basis points to seven hundred seventy today, fit race argentinas rating to triple sea. So what do I mean? That translates into a lower country risk and interest rates, and that generates an increase in investment, also generates an increasing consumption. In other words, the argentinian economy is currently in an absolutely flourishing moment. And how is that sustained in the long term with structural reforms, which we implement daily, deregulating the economy and introducing new laws that free argentinians from the from the many oppressive measures that have burdened IT over the past one hundred years?

You spoken about the cast, the corrupt political establishment. So there's a lot of powerful people and groups that are against your ideas. What does he take to fight once so much powers .

against you? Look, we have fought against corruption like never before. In argentina, in fact, when we took office, for example, they were about nine hundred road blocks per year.

That is, people who made a habit of blocking the streets. They prevented free movement. And besides, they were given social plans and they were given a lot of money.

If you remember, when I started by explaining the cuts, one of the things I said was that we remove the middle men of poverty, in other words, the managers of poverty, those who lived by stealing from the poor. Well, that is a huge source of corruption. In fact, when we did that.

Two days later, one of the most, we now the influential picket theos, called for the demonstration. He claimed that fifty thousand people would attend because he was actually expecting one hundred thousand. So he wanted to show case IT as a success.

And so then, let's say, with the decision made in human capital to cut their funding, the anti blocked protocol was also enacted where those who blocked the streets couldn't receive welfare benefits and those who broke the law would go to jail. All of that. And also we were informing this through transportation channels.

Well, in that march, they expected to have one hundred thousand people there, and actually IT turned out to be three thousand people. And from that point on, they didn't block the streets anymore. We also evidently put an end to that corruption.

One of the things that also generated a lot of corruption was public works. Another thing that LED to significant acto corruption were the directionally transfers to provinces in general, these transfers were made to the provinces with accounting as subscribe possible. So the national government, in collusion with the governors, let's say, the money ended up being used for other things, not only that, with which we have already done many things.

Furthermore, the ministry of human capital is always filing complaints in court, not in the media, in court acts of corruption like never before in argenton history. Not only that, but also in terms of condemning corruption. That is, we have done, for example, two days ago, IT was condemned.

Christina fernan is the questioner got a sentence for corruption, I mean, due to corruption. And the next day, that is yesterday, we took away their privilege pensions. At the same time, we are, for example, we have discovered that charisse used disability pensions for acts of corruption.

For example, there is a city that has more disability pensions than people. In other words, to give you an idea of the things being done in argentina and also in argentina, we have restored freedom to the judiciary. We do not pressure the judiciary.

And this is so true that during my government, not only was Christinia fanatic cation convicted, but also the two terrorist attacks Carried out by iran were condemned. So if there is a government that is truly fighting against corruption, IT is us not only that, but also with each d regulation. IT is a privilege that we take away either from a politician, a preventive company or a power group that is also very powerful.

No one in argentina has ever fought against corruption the way we have. In fact, I will move on to something that is deeply corrupt in one of my great battles. The corruption of the media and social media, that is to say, I remove the official advertising.

That's why you will see that even though we generate wonderful news every week in large quantity, the media speak terribly. In other words, they demand to have a monopoly on the microphone, that is, they are entitled to insult, hurt, offend, and they don't want anyone to bother them, and they expect me not to even respond. That's why a large part of journalism in argentina hates the x network.

And that's why we, the liberal libertarians, love the ex network because we can all say what we want. However, let's say, these supposed journalists who defend freedom of expression, actually, what they want is to sensor the ideas they don't like. And of course, because they're left this, because they are works, because they can stand the competition, because if they had to fight face to face, hand to hand on a level playing field when he comes to ideas, they would lose, because they were a failure in the economic, social and cultural aspects.

And also, we must not forget that those murderer called socialist killed one hundred fifty million people, so they clearly cannot fight on equal terms. Therefore, they demand that social networks have censorship, that the truth cannot be told to them. Because when you tell us socialist the truth, they cry, claiming its hate speech.

No, it's not hate speech is that you are useless people who have a ruined the planet. They have made the planet much, unfortunately, today, thanks to social media, especially due to the enormous and brave work of elon mosque and the role of twitter today, eggs, right, allows information to flow, which makes IT possible, let's say, to expose politicians and also expose the media. And that's why journalists in argentina are so violent.

why? Because before they could, for instance, a journalist went, and for example, he would go to a person and he would throw a folder at them and say, if you don't give me x amount of money, I am going to publish all of this and turn ish your reputation. And I know for a fact, a case of a journalist who Carried out this extortion twice to a businessman.

That businessman told him that he wasn't gonna pay. And evidently the journalist did IT. Obviously, they went to court. There was a trial, and that journalist lost both times. But that process is very slow, and in the meantime, they smear.

So since the justice system takes a long time, so what is the problem? The problem is that in the meantime, your life got sorted. So why can journalists do all this? Well, that's why they dislike ex.

They dislike social media. They dislike the new former communication. Because they took away the monopoly over the microphone.

And by taking away the monopoly over the microphone, IT removed the make benefits of extortion. So clearly, that's another battle line fighting. You read a newspaper in argentina, and eighty five percent of what you read is alive.

That is to say, the fundamental characteristic of most journalists, not all, but the vast majority of journalists in, with some honorable exceptions, is that they are liars, slanders and their famous. And if the monopoly they demand were still in place that they want to rain again, I have no doubt that they would demand money in exchange for silence, because that's what they are. They are extraordinary.

They are thieves. They are corrupt. And then of course, obviously, when you take away a privilege from a sector, they get upset. Well, welcome to freedom.

They are not only fighting for economic freedom. You're fighting for freedom of speech.

exactly. I fight for freedom in all aspects of life. That is to say, one of the things that seems most interesting to me is that, a, when the berlin wall fell, it's true that officially fell in the year one thousand and eighty nine.

But the reality is that the wall or socialism fell in the year nineteen sixty one when they had to build the wall. I mean, they built IT because people were living in communist germany for capital germany. They realize that those on the western side were much Better off.

And of course, to prevent people from leaving, they put what a wonderful system, right? So, I mean, they had to trap people. They couldn't let them go.

I mean, these are such wonderful ideas that they had to apply them at gunpoint. It's quite well. It's no coincidence that they killed one hundred fifty million human beings.

So what happened then? The official fall of the wall in the year nineteen, nineteen eighty nine made IT clear that socialism had failed in that context. The socialist, they move the discussion of class struggle in economics and took IT to other areas.

So, for example, socialism, or what is of the twenty first century, or cultural mark system, or postmark system, whatever definition you want, is to take class struggle to different aspects of life. For example, one of the aspects of life, well, you, let's say half this is in gender ideology. I mean, it's incredible because the first wants to defend quality before the law were the liberals.

The first to defend women's rights with the liberals, jeremy bent them in the year seventeen and fifty was the first to demand quality before the law for women. I mean, the cause of equality, equality before the law for women, and the equality of rights, the first ones who advocated for this, where the liberals did, you know, however, what does the left do? They just go on to radicalize IT.

And then IT moves to what is called female shovin ism. Female shovin ism is, let's say, the fight against males. And then, I mean, how do they do IT? They do IT by assigning rights.

But when you are sign, right, someone has to pay for IT and that has consequences. And in general, let's say this always happens. The consequences are that the results are worse then what you had before.

I mean um in any state intervention, the subsequent result is often worse than what you originally had. So that's one thing. And not only that but the other side of this is the environmental agenda which sets men against nature involving all aspects of environmentally ism and everything related to climate change.

In other words, they can't stand any serious discussion. Therefore, all environmental policies are nothing more than an excuse to collect taxes so that a group of parasitic bureaucrats can live at the expense of others. And finance minister ideas where the most senior ter idea of all is that there is no room for everyone on plant earth.

That is an idea that failed with methods at the beginning of the sixth century, a murderous idea that was also applied by the egyptians against the jew. And this is famously recorded in the book of shame mode, or exodus. Or for example, another thing is black life's matter, that is, black people against White people, or indigenous people against the establish communities, or, I mean, everything related to L G B T.

agendas. Definitely, these are some of the ways in which, you know, socialism extended the class struggle into other aspects of society, creating divisions and Fostering the seat with the sole purpose of absorbing taxes. I mean, what was the ministry of women in argentina doing? Did you manage to reduce a single femicide? No, none at all.

The number of femicide exploded just the same. In fact, the most feminist president in argentine history, mister Alberto fernandez, used to beat his wife. That is such a strange feminist.

I mean, well, so within the ranks of feminist, let's say you will essentially find the largest number of rapists and women beaters. And it's quite interesting what they do. Their hypocritic sy is truly striking.

It's not just about that though. I mean. The battle is on three fronts.

You have the economic front, which is free enterprise capitalism. Then we have the political level. Currently the system that the world has designed.

It's a republican, liberal democracy with checks and baLances. And I mean, at the cultural battle level, notice that socialism has been very successful in the cultural battle. IT has been very successful politically because he was able to translate that political battle in winning many elections.

But why is IT falling about? why? Because he produces misery and because the economic system is a disaster.

So people eventually realize that IT is making things worse for them. Liberal libertarians are very good when IT comes to economics. yes.

And those good economic results, can they actually lead well to the generation of solid political processes? But what happened? The liberals neglected the cultural battle.

Much of the blame was placed on fukuyama when he said, this is the end of history. No, IT was not the end of history. Because the following very nineteen ninety, the socialist gathered at the samp alo forum.

And based on the ideas of grc, designed a strategy to infiltrate the media, culture and education, which ended up changing the entire discourse. And they established that what they said was politically correct, and that any idea outside of IT was to be considered reactionary and had to be censored or even persecuted. And they claim to be the one's defending freedom, even though they were the ones persecuting people.

It's the same with journalists to get upset with twitter. They say they defend freedom, but constantly, when those who think differently. Is that freedom? Yes for them, but not for those who think differently.

That's not freedom. That's fashion. Then what do we say then? We must fight on the economic front, and I believe we are implementing an extremely successful economic program that is being recognized worldwide. In fact, um the other night the president elect donal trump indeed gave recognition for the achievements we are having in argentina and the speed at which we have done IT. At the same time, you have to fight the political battle because well, soccer matches are not one by shouting from the stands, they are one by playing on the field.

But that alone is not enough, because you have to say, you need to convey to society the values of capitalism, the free market, what liberalism is, the value of freedom, right? And when you succeed in that, then we will indeed be able to advance steadily. If you don't fight the cultural battle, what happen in china will happen to you.

They had economic success. IT was, let's say, sustained over time. But at some point, IT collapse.

Why did IT collapse? Because they hadn't fought the cultural battle. then.

Socialism, little by little, took control of institutions in education and the media. So they took over the media and culture. And on that basis, they attacked and broke up the system.

And then they found themselves with increasing doses of socialism. And the only thing socialism generates, his poverty. Therefore, what you must keep in mind is that you have to fight the battles on all fronts. And if you don't keep that in mind, I can tell you are headed towards collapse.

Like you said, in this fight against corruption, your chAllenging are very powerful people, a powerful establishment. Are you ever afraid for your life potential? Fascinations.

no. Tell me, what good is IT to live life? I mean, in slavery. Look, there is a song, and by a spanish singer, cordiner brave. Just to be clear, he has already left this earth, so we can say he has passed onto the beyond.

The song is called liberty, and the song IT tells the story of Peter fetcher, an eight year old boy who, when the separation was made. And I mean, a the construction of the berlin wall begins, his family ends up on the western side, and he accidentally ends up on the eastern side. And for the whole year, he plans his escape to the western side, right? And in that context, when he tries with cape, he gets murdered.

So really, what is the point of life if it's not in freedom, right? I mean, what is the point of living without fighting for your values? If I am willing to give my life for my values, then what is the point of living without freedom?

Look, can I tell you something interesting that happened to me here in the united states? I let's say back in the year nineteen and ninety eight, I came to the united states um to take a series of courses to improve my english. Which I never used in formal terms, because as president, as you can imagine, if I make a mistake, I can create a serious situation.

Fortunately, I have an interpreter who is a super star. And if I make a mistake, even in spanish, he corrects me in the version of the other language. And so back then, in that year, I went to some Frances o and I visited alcatras.

Your Young, but. I mean, the visit was an audio tour. You got a walkman and you would choose the different tracks and listen to the story.

The most interesting thing is that the alcatras store ended in the recreation yard where the basketball court, exercise areas and all recreational facilities were located. So anyone would have thought that this was the best part of alcatras. And yet what they said in the guide was that that was the hardest st. Part for the inmates.

why? Because, I mean, that recreation area, in particular is built in front of the 3Francisco be。 So the image could all see how some Francisco continue to build up and evil when develop every day.

While they were locked up in there, they couldn't take part in that they were confined in that prison. And that made them fully aware of the value of freedom. So in my experience, for me, they fight for freedom is is relentless.

okay? I mean, my greatest hero in all of human history is moses. The feet of moses is like one person alone with his brother iron, both confronting the combined forces of the united states, china and russia together.

And IT was moses who said, the rams is, let my people go. Well, rams is resisted, and the forces of heaven running over. But what I mean is.

I don't see any other possible way to live other than with freedom. And I would always fight for full freedom. And I would be at the four front of this cause.

I mean, it's a cause that. I'm going to die with my boots on. I mean, i'm not going to make do with living any other way other than with freedom.

I will fight everything. I'm gonna fight as much as he takes. At least that's the way I feel.

So what good is IT to be alive if you're confined? What good is IT to be alive if you're not free? It's no good. What good was IT for Peter vecher to be alive in communist germany? Well, at least he had a moment of happiness while he tried to escape .

another guy who fights for freedom, freedom of speaking his cases. Your new friend, elon musk, what do you admire? And what have you learned from your interactions with you on?

I have a huge mediation for elon mosque. He is A. He is an absolutely unconventional person. He's a great fighter for the ideas of freedom. What he has done on twitter, now known as ex, and how is helping the is the world nowadays to wake up one thing for all and become aware of the socialist virus, the work virus, that in itself makes him a hero in the history of humanity. But it's not just that.

One of the things that happened to me is that when I went to first talk to him, I thought I was gonna meet a successful businessman, and that I would have a typical successful businessman conversation who understands business, and that some of his business is some of his business, slightly more exotic. But that's the kind of talk you would expect to have. And business people are truly admirable, right? Because they are true benefactors of society, but they're usually very much focused on their own business.

And one of the things that really, really shocked me when I made elon mask, we had scheduled the meeting for no more than fifty minutes. The first time we were in the meeting for a little over forty five minutes because he was about to miss his flight. So obviously, if someone as important, he doesn't fly as planned, IT has to be ressort dule and he loses a lot of hours.

Imagine every minute is very valuable. And and one of the things that happened was that. Basically, he brought up the topic of demography and we started discussing demographics and growth.

I never imagined that I would end up discussing demographics and growth with him, you know and another very fun thing was that um something funny he said to me was that since we shared our vision regarding demographic issues and the need to populate the planet, he asked me, now what about you? When are you gonna move in that direction? And when I I said, I look, I have five children and he said, well, the four legged ones don't count.

That was the first, the first meeting I head with elon mosque. The second on the second meeting was when here at the universities, we started seeing anti semitic demonstrations where basically palestinian flags were displayed and jews were harassed and persecuted. And at that moment, when we had that second meeting, he showed himself to be very deeply involved with that and brought up the issue of the cultural battle.

So I mean, it's not quite conventional even in the political field. Um I during our last stock, which lasted for about doing a half hours, right? One of the things we talked about was freedom.

And what was at stake for the united states in this in this election are therefore he is a person, you know, honestly, uh I can say he is well above average I mean a person of unconventional intelligence, right? And also, he is very charming. So I mean, again, I have a great admiration for him, and I really interact very closely with him.

He is very interested in what our ministry of the the regulation is doing, which seeks to remove regulations. But at the same time, he works with another person who is also interested in the chainsaw approach. And so.

I'm very pleased because they are going to try and replicate the model we are implementing in argentina. And also Donald trump himself is very enthusiastic about this. So and anything in the way of reducing regulations and cutting public spending and taking government out of the equation means more freedom for the people.

So i'm very pleased with what's going on and with trumps Victory, because the united IT will be Better off. Argentina is going to be Better too, and the whole world is going to be Better off today. The world is a much Better place than IT was just a few days ago.

Like you said, iran in the vacuum, a swami are heading the doge department of government efficiency. So from your experience this year as president, argentina and every chainsaw economic policies that you've implemented, what advice would you give to iron and the VC about how to do IT .

in the united states? Just got to the chase. Cut to the chase. Simple as that. I'll tell you a story and you're going to love IT.

Currently in argentina, due to to the political baLance we've achieved, we have had certain powers delegated from congress to the executive branch, and therefore we can resolve IT by degree. The the regulation minister feed legal stored age in his ministry shows account that displays in front of everyone there. He displays the number of days, all right, during which the delegated powers will continue to be valid.

Therefore, he has a whole regulation division, also a public spending cut division and government structure reduction division. And he also has an a league core that's cleaning up all of the laws that hinder the economic system and progress. And every day he removes between one and five economic restrictions.

So my advice would be for them to go all the way to push you to the very limit and do not give up, do not let down their guard. Furthermore, that agenda does not have political purpose, because at the end of the day, you are removing privileges. Of course, there will be people complaining, but those are people, these are people who are losing privileges. So they will have to explain to society why they are keeping those privileges. And that is quite uncomfortable.

You've spoken down a trump. allegedly. He called you his favor. President, what did you discuss? And maybe, again, what you admire about president trump and what do you learn from him?

There are several things that I I admire about president trump. The first is that he probably, I think he's provided ample proof of this in his first presidency. He understands the nature of the cultural battle.

He has openly confronted socialism. His speeches openly target socialism. He perfectly understands the work virus.

And that that is a, you know, of great value, because IT means understanding what it's all about. Another thing I truly admire about him is his courage. In fact.

Thankfully, thank goodness he didn't get assassinated or killed, but IT was by a small chance occurrence that could have killed him just because he moved at the right moment. And yet that didn't intimidate him. And he went on.

And in fact, during his first campaign, and in this one as well, in the second one, in third one, they criticized him, insulted him, offended him, said the awful things about him, made up pole sorts of horrible stories about him. In that respect, I can say I deeply relate, because probably no one in our history has had such a negative campaign from all the media like they did to me. But lets say they were quite similar.

This is why it's so interesting and I was so deeply moved when last night I also got to meet silvester alone, you know because so vest alone talks about, well, how important needs that no matter how hard they hit you and keep on hitting you all the time, despite all that, you keep going on and on and on. What i'm trying to say is that many of the many so many of silvester allows approaches are truly inspirational, don't you think so? Imagine i'm about to give this speech.

And I see silly vestas alone, and silvestre alone knows me. IT was truly insane. I had to pinch myself.

I mean, this can be true. And besides, well, the people were wonderful with me last night. They've been wonderful today. I've taken hundreds of selves. I mean, it's truly been, I would say it's been my break.

Let me say, after almost a year in office and having to face all sorts of media torture, because, because the journalists who have vested industry and are corrupt are professional tortures, yes, because they invade you, your personal life, your family and your privacy. Let me tell you something to show you the kind of garbage the media and argentina can do. They sent three drones to spy on me at my presidential residence, to spy on me.

Do you think that's right now? exactly. But that kind of thing happens in argentina, not to mention the many lies and horrible things they say. I, for instance, remember that time when my father was hospitalized.

My father is a man of a really strong character who has had two heart surgeries, all right? And one day a journalist was saying all sorts of lies about my father. My father was hospitalized while any almost died of a heart attack.

So that kind of thing is what journalism in the press do in notin dinner. So they start to attack your private life, your mother, your father, your sister, even my dogs that I absolutely adore. They are the most wonderful beings in the universe.

They even target my four legged children. So imagine that i've been in office for nearly a year, a year as president. And since they can't criticize my management, except by lying and distorting the numbers, they meddle with all these things, things they have been doing all the time since the year two thousand twenty one, when I officially entered politics.

So, and i've seen what they've done to trump. So that also makes me relate a lot to him because he's a true warrior. He's truly, he's a viking.

He's a viking. He's literally a viking. I mean, he is someone I admire for how he has kept fighting in the face of adversity, even against lords, and still he managed to win. amazing. And well, a and that's why I can relate that much.

And i've also seen how he's been unfairly criticize, like when he was accused of protectionism or when he wanted to discuss some matters within the context of public debate regarding the design of monetary policy as regards the fed. And basically they have accused him of things. I mean, isn't he entitled to give an opinion as a president? I mean, any citizen could give their opinion even more. So a president.

why is that important to you that argentina has a close relationship with the united states?

Well, to us, that is truly important. Okay, you know, because we've decided to be geopolitical allies of the united states ever since our campaign, that our allies, we have decided that our allies will be the united states and israel, because they basically represent the ideas of the western world. They represent the free world.

That is to say what we would call today, let's say, a liberal democracy. Okay, by confronting the auto cats. And in that sense, that is the geopolitical aligned.

Moreover, in our campaign, we were very, very clear on three main points. One, the economic pillar. We talked about cutting public spending, and I would make my appearances with a chain saw.

We talked about economic freedom, the regulation that is. And I talked about the competition of currencies, and people, you know, obviously were interested in the dollar. So IT was obvious that the economic policy was clear, alright? And not only was IT clear, but we are also fulfilling IT.

That is the first point. Second was our policy on security. The idea being to fight crime, I mean, relentlessly as well as security, no mercy, right? And in fact, in argentation, there are no more road blocks, which they said were impossible to end.

Not only that, we have strengthened the security forces and also our armed forces, and we are waging a tough battle against truck trafficking and narrow terrorism. Therefore, we are also strongly fulfilling that. Notice that these two points that which were the main concerns, they were the biggest concerns of argentinians when we took office, are now in fifteen, six place today.

The problem for argentineans is corruption, whether there is unemployment, if there is poverty, but they don't mention inflation and insecurity anymore. And besides, a third point that I made clear was that I would a line with the united states and israel internationally. And you know, at my campaign rallies, there would be groups that you would come along with, flags of israel.

So it's clear that our international policy approach was always very clear. And this is something I stayed during my speeches when I talk about the values of the west and the civilization of the west. In fact, yesterday, and even more so today, during my speeches, I talked about how the different greek groups or tribes go together to confront the persons that is to say, IT seemed that from that time five hundred years before cries until today, that struggle continues.

Right um but well so of course we're all in we are betting on the united states becoming once again a leader in the west. We needed someone to come back to make amErica great again and and that as part of that process being a commercial allah is also a great idea. So we would really like to move forward and deep in our trade ties and our investment ties, you know. And well, we would also like to be part of the nature as well.

Do you think is still possible? One of the radical ideas you had as you were running for president was to dearie a the argentine economy. Do you think that's still a good idea? Are you still thinking about that?

Let's see. Let's break IT down. Let's say I if you review all all my statements, I talk about currency competition. I'm not strictly talking about dollarisation. I'm talking about currency competition and eliminating the central bank.

If people later decide to embrace the dollar, that is their choice, ultimately in the model, live, propose, what happens is the formation of a currency basket tailored to the needs of individuals. But I won't avoid the discussion today. There is currency competition.

If, for instance, today in argentina, you want to make transactions in any currency, you can do IT and it's allowed. Today there is currency competition. The other thing we talk about is the concept of, let's suppose we were discussing dollarisation.

We talk about industrious dollar ation. The first point is that you need to clean up the central bank. We had to deal with the issue of the C I R A, that is, the central bank's commercial debt, which was fifty billion dollars.

We still have to resolve the dividend problem of ten billion dollars, and in the meantime, we did a right off and cleaned up the central bank baLances sheet by forty five billion dollars. So you can't just close the central bank. If IT is bankrupt, you need to redeem the whole central bank det, which is about the issuing of money and the interest bearing liabilities.

So once we finished with the interest bearing liabilities, it'll leave us with the monetary base. Therefore, today we have a regime where the amount of money is fixed, the monetary base is not growing. And as demand for money increases, since people can use dollars, they don't need to go and sell their dollars and make their pay so appreciate, but they can do transactions in dollars.

So as the economy grows, you will have a greater share of dollars relative to pause. And at some point, the amount of specials compared to the dollars will be so huge relatively. The closing down the central bank will be done easily, which means this is working.

Of course, if you were to give me the money right now, I would go ahead and dollar rise. I'd have no problem with that. For example, I did have a proposal for this, and this could have worked because the bonds, because the largest creditor of the urgently treasury is the central bank.

But central bank bonds were trading at twenty cents if I had sold those bonds at twenty cents. And nowadays they are trading between sixty and seventy with the whole bunch of neanderthals that are the opposition, who, besides being ignorant in economics, also have bad intentions. I would be in jail today.

Let me ask you a very important, difficult question. I'm a huge fan. Have been a whole life of the egr dona and messy. So who to use the greatest football player all time.

The way I see IT, I have seen mara dona play, all right. I saw maradona playing the past. I used to watch him, and I saw him during his last year at argentina junior, before boke assures in the year one thousand, nine and eighty.

And I saw him in eighty one, playing for the broker. I saw him play in the youth selection in japan in nineteen seventy nine. I truly have immensely enjoyed the talent of maradona.

But without a doubt, the best soccer player of all time, not just from argentina of all time, even Better than pay lay, is messy. Of course, there is an article which is quite old, old already now titled messy is impossible. And IT looks at all of the positions a soca play a place in that is all positions a soccer player can play in from midfield forward.

okay? And the most incredible thing is that mi is the best in each of those positions. You can be the best in one or two positions. You see, Christian, for example, was very good in two areas of the game, so much so that he was almost like messy, but he didn't take part in the rest. However, MC is the best one in all respects.

But at that time, of course, nowadays, you know, he is an older player, right? And and i'm not sure whether he can still keep that performance on all fronts. But but honestly, I have never in my life seen a player like messy. I ve never seen no one like him for real. If you look at the number of goals he scored, I correct that considering the goal average in the days of play compared to mess this golden era and his career now, the number of equivalent goals is much greater than that of, therefore, without a doubt, may see, is the greatest soccer player of full time or full time. No one compares to him.

but it's not just the numbers or the world cup win. It's the moments of genius on the field. Messy is unlike any other. In that way.

mercy does things that seem technically impossible. They seem physically impossible. The move he makes don't respect human logic is like watching u sane, bold run.

IT doesn't feel possible. He moves in a way that doesn't respect human logic. Am I right?

Did you watch the nineteen six square cup on marda with the, with the hand of god, with the game against england? What was that like?

Oh yes, I do remember that very well. Um we watched IT in the home of of my godfather and saw how he did his campet and dodge the team the england team that was truly IT was absolutely, absolutely indescribable there's no way to put IT into words. It's as if if I asked you to describe for me.

The love you have for your partner, you can do that right? I mean, it's something wonderful. You can't describe IT.

You cannot put IT into words. There are things where words, I mean, you know, just seem to fail. Am I right? I really think that there are times when humans, or some humans, not all of them, actually some humans, have the privilege of being able to vibrate closer to god, some pucci areas.

For the example, when you listen to them, when you listen to the famous idea from around, or the famous idea from jani, I, I mean, you get the feeling that he was getting saddled. Ted, by god, how can you put that into words? You can't.

There's no way you do that. I mean, those moments where we humans, or that we have the privilege, I say IT as human beings, right? Because, I mean, I am speaking from that perspective.

okay? I say this only as an admire. Some human beings have the ability to vibrate so close to god that you can describe IT. You can only enjoy IT. This is why in judaism, they don't use the name of god of the creator.

Because how could you put in words something like that? And I believe those are times when us humans connect closer to the creator and things, unique things, you cannot describe them. There are no words to describe that. The only thing you can do is enjoy IT and be thankful that you can witness IT.

You are a great football yourself. In your youth, you are goalkeeper. Many people would say that the tourist and the most important position in football, maybe you can speak about that experience. And in general, what's harder being a goalkeeper present?

Lovely question. Well, indeed, I used to be a goal keeper, but i'm not so sure about whether I was any good. But but you know, the experience of having been a goal keeper is very valuable.

First, the goalkeeper is the only player that can use their hands in a certain sector of the pitch in the area. The other thing is that, a, he's also the only player who dresses differently, right? Moreover, their training is a solidity one.

And the most important, I mean, IT, is the very climate x, the goal, right? When the goal is called by their team, everyone is celebrating on the other side and the goalkeeper is on his own. And and at the same time, he is the one who suffers the most when a goal is scored because he gets the direct impact.

In fact, when the goalkeeper makes a mistake, it's a known goal. Imagine a tea made scores a wonderful goal like the one maratha did, its marvellous and that's just one goal. And imagine the goalkeeper picks up the ball and then if they bring IT into the area wrongly, it's like two goals.

It's a complete lack of proportion. So they are ford and this, in my opinion, makes goalkeepers have a very strong temperament, right? They're used to being alone. And power is precisely that because when you make decisions, you are on your own.

And and not just that, but also when you have a responsibility like that of a president, when you make a decision, IT has an impact on millions of people. So just like goalkeepers, if you make a mistake and score your own goal, and in this context, it's negative consequences for millions of people. Therefore, that has been part of the university of life that has given me the tools to be president today. That is my training in economics, my training in liberalism, having been a goal keeper and also having had a very tough childhood.

How hard is IT? What's been the personal toll of Carrying the hope of a nation on your shoulders?

Well, you know, being the fame insulted and attack every single day. But but. Again, there is no point in life if it's not with freedom. So like vest alone, one said, the secret life is to Carry on in spite of the blows you get, the punches you take. Unfortunately, we have been able to Carry on in spite of the blows both coming at us from in front, from behind our backs because they have been more honest if we had been attacked directly but well you know in argentina um politics and the mass media they do love to attack behind your back.

What role has god played in your life and who is god?

Well, faith, I say, has been. A very fundamental element, you know. And especially in recent times during which i've become actively involved, particularly in the teachings of judaism in in the study of a of the tora.

Ah this has given me a huge, let's say, a huge background to face the many adversities which i've encountered and had to overcome in the last few years. And as to who god is, he's the creator, the maker. I got him the one.

What is a Better guide for humanity? The invisible hand of the market or the hand of god?

They're perfectly in sink one of.

again, going back to your youth, your a singer in a rug band who's the greatest rock star .

of all time? Okay, well, the way I see IT, the most amazing rock singer in history of mankind, was definitely Elvis pressly. And my favorite bond is the rolling stones. So I also greatly admire my jagger, you know, and I still have this dream of getting to meet him in person.

How fun would you be to play together with the, with the stones?

That would be a big, big dream. Don't get my hopes up because I set goals and then I go and achieve .

them while i'm close friends with a band that opens for the stones. So I would love to see this happen.

Oh, well, that would be great. Or we could also watch the whole concert from the stage. I mean, I can keep ruling the rolling stones is music. I already had a tribute band and did quite a lot of damage to the music.

How much your rock star routes define your approach to politics, to life, D. C. Yourself as a kind of human in part.

of course. absolutely. My idea is that when you attend, when you attend one of our events, IT feels like going to a rolling stones concert.

In fact, in one of my most recent performances at luna park, I even had the pleasure of singing in front of ten thousand people. It's on youtube. No, sorry, not on youtube.

It's on my instagram feed. At that event, I sing a song called panic show. And the song starts by saying, hi everybody, I am the line .

on your intensity. Impassion have urged the nickname a local, the mad men. Do you think some madness is necessary to chAllenge the powerful establishment?

Well, maybe it's a matter of perspective, right? IT could be the other way around that everyone else is crazy by living in away, contrary to the ideas of freedom. And so maybe the same person who wants to fix that is then considered a madman.

Anyway, the nickname doesn't bother me at all. In fact, I even enjoyed because hyper called like that since I was ten years old. So it's not something that particularly bothers me, you know, because it's a nickname that well, it's a IT has been used for many years.

But actually, if I present to you the case of sun Martin, when he said he was going across the andes to liberate not only our gender, not only our country, but also chili and peru, and people called him crazy. Imagine if you had tried and spoken with, I don't know, with michelAngelo, you would have called him crazy too. Or if you had talk to, I don't know, hundreds of people who have changed the world, surely they would have thought that einstein was crazy. And so on the list would be infinite. So what is the difference between a madman and a genius success?

Let me ask about the market is so interesting from your view of the world, how powerful the market is at figuring out what's best for society. Why do you think the market works so well as a guide for humanity?

One must first understand what the market is. Simply put, the market is a process of voluntary exchange, where individuals CoOperate through the transfer of property rights in which private property is upheld. This is the system that drives the allocation of resources, in essence, socialism.

And this is what misses condemns in his book, socialism shows, is that the without private property, Prices cease to exist and therefore resources are diverted. Why don't you think it's the same to make a road of us? Photo gold? Why not make IT of gold? Because you have an understanding of economic calculation, you have an idea of Prices in your mind.

So in this context, if there is no private property, there are no Prices. And as a result, the free market capitalism, you know, is the best mechanism ever developed by humankind for resource allocation. This also implies that markets must be free, free from state intervention, because when the state intervenes, IT creates interference, and the markets need to allow free entry and exit.

What we call competition, however, is Better to understand competition in the sense describe by israel gardener, one of the foremost figures of the austria's school, or in the neoclassical framework, as William bomba understood, IT, which was the concept of free entry and exit in so called contestable markets. And also, let's talk about what pertains to the division of labor and social CoOperation. You know, the most wonderful thing about capitalism is that you can only be successful by serving others with Better quality goods at a Better Price.

If you are successful in the free market capitalism, you are a hero, you are a social benefactor, you're prosperity machine. So the Better you do, you know, the Better you do, the Better IT is for society. This is very important.

I I remember when I had my first meeting with you on mask, and this made me admire him greatly. And this is something my sister commented on to, you know, ella must told me something he does every day. He wakes up every morning thinking about what problem he could fix for humanity.

That's amazing. Of course, what is the counterpart being successful? Therefore, in that sense, and moreover, in my view on how the system works, on how the market works, market failures do not exist.

That is to say that is a problem, all right, a problem for new classics economies because of of the mathematical tools they have used. To develop economic analysis. But actually, it's not a real issue in everyday life. It's a problem in the minds of economies. In fact, my ladies book called capitalism, socialism and the new classical trap deals precisely with this issue.

Yeah, you've outline these ideas in capitalism, socialism, in a new classical trap. So the trap is that there's no such thing as a middle ground. It's either capitalism, socialism. Every middle ground ends up in a state socialism.

Well, actually that is what mr. Said that there were. He said that there are only two systems, free enterprise, capitalism and socialism. Andy also pointed out, and this is proven in high facebook, the road to serve them, that any middle ound solution is unstable in terms of capitalism, meaning at ten towards socialism.

So when you implement an intervention, IT causes government failure, which then trigger further intervention, setting up a drap that results in more and more intervention. And in this context, the neoclassical with their market failure theory are in fact, dealing with problems that are fundamentally mathematical, rather than making the world a Better place they have, if you will, be instrumental in increasing the levels of intervention, let me tell you something. Well, you know, I have an economist as chairman of the president's advisory council, doctor demand add, who studied here at harvard university and completed his P.

H. D, was meant told by Kenneth rogoff, the american economist. And the rogoff has said that doctor redel was his best student.

Nowadays were actually working with doctor ridal specifically on on all these issues that that arise from, you know, the interventions proposed, a proposed by the, by the mainstream, such as the so called correction of market failures. And a few days ago he conducted a survey of search allegorist ms and policy recommendations. And that resulted in a map painted from red to blue.

And well, the rather IT was the more IT was linked to socialism. There was an intermediate thing that was yellow and blue was free market ideas. And one of the things he discovered as as part that grave for child was that the largest, the largest number of policy recommendations, scandalously, are actually left leaning. So that is the empirical evidence of what I pointed out in the book, capital alem socialism. In the neoclassical trap.

you mentioned your four legged children. What if you are learned about life from your dogs?

Well, from my four legged children, I have learned unconditional love. In fact, well. My name in hebrew means loyal friend, faithful friend. And on the chinese hor scope, I am dog.

And if there's one thing that defines me is loyalty, day being decent and those virtues, you know, you can find them in those wonderful beings that dogs are who who love unconditionally. In fact, they are superior beings, right? Spiritually speaking, in my case, because. Because, you know, I don't forget or forgive those who have harmed me, that is to say, all those who have insulted the fame me and criticize me, I remember each one of them, but I don't have the greatness needed to forgive them.

On the topic of loyalty in politics, i'm sure there's been a lot of people, some people who have betrayed you. Does that .

hurt your heart? IT depends because um. You sometimes think that you can expect some people to be loyal, and if they betray you, of course that hurts. But some people, you actually don't expect anything from them. So, so if there's betrayal, I mean, you won't be annoyed or feel bad because because you always IT to someone who didn't share your values. But politics does have that.

You know, sometimes many of the people you may come across don't have the values you advocate for, but its cost benefit, you need to let the ship sale on, right? Or would you rather let IT sink? That's not my case.

I fight until the end. There are traitors, but that's part of politics. And that's not my line, but of course they do exist.

There are a lot of people who admire your revolutionary spirit. What what advice would you give them, maybe Young people on how to live a life like yours and have an impact on the world like you have begun to do?

I didn't do this thinking about having an impact on the. I have defined what makes me happy, and I live according to that. I live consistently by that.

And and most importantly, I would say never give up. moreover. And above will never be have hearted. I would rather. Cry because I failed, rather than not crying because I never tried.

I mean, i'm a perfection is so when I do air, of course I have a bad time, but still I prefer to go and get things done. If he goes wrong, it's part of life. But I will never, never have to regret not having done what I thought needed to be done at that moment. All right.

what gives you hope about the future argentina and the future of humanity?

Well, the fact that thanks to social media and do the whole tech revolution going on every day, more and more people are becoming aware of how important freedom is to live, to live in peace and prosperity. And I believe, even though bureaucrats and the elites fight entirely doing. A wave of freedom has been unleashed. Which, if we do wage the fight, will have a much Better world.

What does your famous words of via libert? How did that come about? And what does that mean to you?

Lonely freedom? Damad, you know, that first started while I was giving my book presentations. At the end of my presentation, I would say viva a liberta garo. And that really stuck with me since then without thinking about IT throughout my life, IT was going to continue being present.

In fact, today, my presentations, all of my speeches, end with my god bless the argentineans may the forces of heaven be with us in viva liberta gah o the first phrase reflects. My faith in god prevent tly, and that i'm deeply thankful to the creator for the wonderful things he has bestowed upon me daily. The second one has to do with a quote from the book of maca bees, three nineteen, which says that Victorian battle doesn't depend on the size of the army, but on the forces of heaven. This has to do with the Victory of the jewish people, the mac abuse against the greeks and how they recovered the temple. And the last one, well, is my war cry.

Well, there's no Better way to end IT. Thank you for being a warrior for freedom and thank you for talking a day.

Thank you very much indeed for your interview and thank you for being so well educated because very often interviews are not like that. And you did have windows to play fall and you didn't then I recognize that. And I thank you for that.

Thank you.

Thanks for listen to this .

conversation with your male to support the spot casts. Please check out our sponsors in the description. And now let me leave you some words from georgia. Well, in a time of the seat, telling the truth is a revolutionary act. Thank you for listening and hope to see you next time.