#425 – Andrew Callaghan: Channel 5, Gonzo, QAnon, O-Block, Politics & Alex Jones
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The following is conversation with the Andrew kalgan host, a channel five on youtube, where he does gozo style interviews with fascinating humans at the edges society, the so called variance vagabonds runaway outlaws, from q on at hearts to fish heads to o block residents, and much more. He created a documentary that I had recommend, call this place rules on the undercurrent that LED to the january six capital rights.

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There's an incredible commercial I think is probably fake for a long time ago. Uh, is easy for walmart or care. I don't remember and we talk about walmart in this episode, which kind of warms my heart being honest, actually I do think is came and the commercial is, well, they talk about, I just shipped my pants.

At the risk of explaining humor, the commercial involves the full on absurdity of very kinds of people talking about shipping their pants and shipping the bed, other kind stuff. Anyway, it's hilarious. And I wish people would do at your stuff like that more often, where the commercial itself is a little piece of artistic observation.

Anyway, got a ship station of counselleth and use code legs to sign up for your free sixty day trial chip station. That conflict legs, this episode is also brought you buy a Better help, spelled H E L P, help they figure out what you need to match with a license. SE therapies in under forty eight hours is for individuals, is for couples.

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Ada, a great conversation yesterday with but favorite barbecue, but mine he runs J M, L. barbecue. That a highly recommend.

Did you get check out? We talked about life, freedom, country, we like to, about a lot of things about love, about love for humans, about love for the art of what you do. A man loves barbecue.

He truly loves cooking. And the artistry, if I can use that word, kind of like jail dreams of sushi or bad dreams a barbecue. Anyway, he is not a license therapies. He's not even license barbecue creator because you don't get a licence for that thing.

His family grandfather is just been in the family he's been a texin for, like I don't know how many centuries, but text and thrown through barbecue guy threw through but if you want that kind of debt conversation, but with a little bit more rigger professionalism and uh this greatness, then you should try a Better help. Check them how to Better help that comes slugs and save you in the first month that's Better helped out come flash legs. This episode is also brought you by element is a in electorate drink delicious and helps you get your sorting potential magnesium in the right kinds of proportions.

For me, if I had to get rid of everything, I consume the last things that will remain that will make me still feel good, like safe on fasting for many days, which is the thing I kind of want to do, like fast for like seven days or more. I think it's a beautiful experience, but if you do that, you still need water and electors, because if you have those, they can be happy. Everybody can be happy.

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Miss element, the things you miss, but also the things that empowers you when you travel to those kinds of places, is a little habits, the little comforts of home and element is that for me. And i'm looking forward to a long run today. I am a honest do maybe ten, twelve, maybe fifteen and go to drink out before i'm gonna drink elmet after, before I feel good on the run, after I recover well from the run, is a big part of feeling good for me.

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I'm going to make any one company that comes with IT when they ship IT and put cold water in there, mix IT all up and put in the freezer for about like thirty minutes. He gets a little slushy. He gets that big some taxi to IT after A A long run in the texas heat is is so refreshing to get the hedge one. And I think about life that i'm listening to, some intense audio book, and it's just the same place I get to reflect on the battles that I fall inside my mind on that long run and aging one is, is the delicious orchestra that place while I reflect on the battle fort friends, they will give you one month supply a fish will when you sign up a drink A G want that cm, flash legs. This is the election podcast to support IT, please check out our sponsors in the description and now their friends, here's Andrew carton.

I tried to color match you though, got the black and White gone. I went to walmart before this and get the ranger shirt with the h texas long horns.

Is that you should generally, i'm a target man myself. There is no way you .

get those suit from target.

You see your thing is a nice way to component.

I think you go men's warehouse, if not further.

I think you would be wrong. You go further. No, the other direction, you got that target, not target.

I was joking about a target. I like walmart. I just felt like a funny thing to say. The most expensive thing I own is this watch and was given to music.

Ft, yeah. When I was on tour, I had this twenty seven hundred cardio glasses I got for a lot of money are like that is.

yeah, but they're .

really embarrassing. But I was on tour, so I just felt I could do anything as far as fashion choices. But looking back at pictures for myself in the area, my god.

so that was the symbol of of the fame. Got to your head.

I think so yeah, I think fame getting to your head, if you you spend more than a hundred bux on sunglasses.

specially off. And that's where you will go back to walmart. Humbly self, I really love walmer. In fact, I moved off because I was a warmer. And a lady said that I look handsome in a suit and I was like, that's IT. I love this place you just said if for no reason once, however, this older lady just kind of look at me and with this like genuine switch, just said, oh, you look handsome SHE is she's .

not wrong man thank you. That's part of your whole swag though .

okay this thing yeah anyway, what was the first if you remember first recorded interview he did um well .

like my first grade teacher, mrs. Clodia this is back in the day like I was telling you, we just asked her by her life in luban stuff like that. But I didn't really get into actual journalism until my nth great year.

I no idea. Had an interest in IT before. Then I wanted to be a rapper. Was all about hipp in meditation, in picking Sullivan mushrooms in public parks and stuff like that.

That's what I was into. That's a lot. So meditation, rap.

public parks, I was making like conscious, right music to I had, like four dream catchers hanging above my bed, alex gray painting on the wall, tapestry on the ceiling, describing ryme. Now, all the time.

So you said somewhere they suck at school.

Okay, well, let me let step back a little bit. So I have this amazing journalism course in th grade alternative high. And the teacher was named calvin shaw. And he was just like, I ended up taking his class all four years, and he used to let me actually leave school like I didn't like go in his school.

So he let me basically go around seattle and do different interviews with people as long as I could come back by the end of the day and write a story for his class. And he'd marked me as present. So the first article that wrote was about the the silk road in the deep web.

I know, yeah, as a nice fatter. When I discovered the hidden Vicky, I thought that I was like, really tapping into, like the most secret society, elite level black market in the world. And so if you remember, they had a hidden wicky link that was, like, hire a hit man, you know.

And so I I message them and I was like, you know, I want to, I get someone killed in my school. Like, how much is going to cost me? And I published my interview with the hidden wicky hit man. He was probably a fat or something, but who knows? And that my first article was called, like inside the deep web, a conversation with a hit man.

that's nice. Yeah, I mean, you're fearless even then.

I mean, I was hiding behind A A tor brother. So there's not much .

fear to be happy.

IT was anonymous, but I did publish IT under my name. So you're right. I could be.

could have been in danger. I also saw, he said he took too many shrooms when you were Young. And that LED you to have hallucination, an persisting perception disorder.

H. P. P. D. Can you explain what this is?

Well, that condition is classified by persistent visual snow floors morphing objects like I see them right now.

I see them all the time. The snows in the room.

the snow is definitely in the room of you. And basically I wasn't that I took too many shrooms. I think that I was I took I took about an eighth of um si essence mushrooms, which are the ones that come from the earth instead of code, and I took a and eight of those that my friend toby house and which is a Normal amount, but I was an eighth grade.

So I woke up the next morning with these extreme visual distortions, and I thought that I would go away. I tried to make IT go away. But there, is there really no cure for H.

P. P. T. It's a lifelong on condition. So it's just a matter of dealing with IT and realizing that IT is only visual.

So when people ask me here, H, P, P, T, how do I look with IT? I still remember that every other sense that you have, what you can hear, what you can taste, you know, you're feet on the ground, you're still on earth. You're still here.

Well, he says it's only visual. And yes, graduated for being alive at all. Yes, great. You said that this LED you into some dark psychological places like d personalization disorder.

yeah. D personalization is the feeling that you are not real, but the reality still exists. D is the idea that reality itself is an illusion created by your mind in the year of the only personalities, and that everything that your brain is projecting to your visual cortex is a lie, and that you're the only living human being.

Both are pretty intense.

H, P, P, T creates both of those things. And so when i've talked to people who have the condition, it's really either or, but more than seventy percent of people with H P P T fall into either category. Thereby coping mechanisms for the I don't know what really happens.

I talk to a researcher once, name dr. Or a ham. He lived in upstate new york.

He is the leading scientists. When IT comes to H P. P. T. research. He is the only one who actually seems to care about finding a cure. And the only known treatment right now is alcohol.

And that's not good.

right? So alcoholism, something that came into my life pretty early alcohol abuse as a result of that experience because that helps with the visual symptoms, make some of the static go away. Never tried to be as though .

so which so can you explain to me where in that spectrum you are? So do sometimes have a sense that you are not real. Sometimes something else is not real, like the reality is not real .

yeah experience that all the time, you know but like I said, my job helps with that because I got to feel like, you know, when you seek out extremes to a certain extent, and you put yourself on the front lines of intensive ts, whether be politically or socially, or just dive in to deep from subcultures, you get this feeling that you're real. And being film is also a confirmation. If you can look at the M P four file that you're in fact living here on earth.

confirming yet that you were in IT with reality by watching yourself on video. exactly. So there is that basically the engine behind all the extreme interviews you done. Well.

I got H P, P, D around the same time that I began this journalist course, and I grade. So I sort of always used journalism as a therapeutic c mechanism to deal with some of these symptoms, especially d personalization. There's some pretty good illustrations of what IT feels like, kind of feels like you trapped behind your eyes or that you're just dislike nebuly soul. It's trapped in a flesh suit that you're not really a part of europe sort of pup tearing a fleshing bone skin suit trapped .

or just the ability to step outside of yourself.

You feel like your soul is not something that is connected to your body. It's something living in your head. It's really hard to explain to people who haven't gone through the realisation or d personalisation. But if you go on support groups, they always say, like I will break free from behind my eyes, like dark.

And also you trapped. I mean, there is a higher state of being through meditation that you can kind of step outside yourself. But this is not that, unfortunately.

I was kind of the meditative path, or, you know, the eastern path that I took and refuse that with psychiatric culture and seattle that took me down the psychiatric use rabbit hole in the first place. So like i'd say, IT, i'll started .

with artha is a good book. Have you done through things?

No, I don't really do not like the drugs. But like a lot of people think that i'm against them, which i'm not, doesn't work for me. If IT works for you, i'm sure that can be really fun, especially I know there's lots of like a therapeutic uses for acid and kadee and Sullivan, but I personally abstained from those kind. Anything like a tropic? I tried to stay away .

from drinking a bit. Well.

yeah, I mean, I didn't drink IT all before. I had A H P P T stuff. And I would have drank later in life. But definitely like fourteen, fifteen, every day after school, I drink a forty ounce of Mickey like a kind of looks like all english. But the bottles Green and IT has a honor on the side of IT just kind of became a ritual is to deal with the anxiety of of that situation and .

made the the snow go away yeah.

alcohol really watched to suppress H. P. P. T. symptoms.

So you said, you hate a classes in school, except that journalists in class.

Okay, we need to clear this up because on my wikipedia page, for some reason, for Andrew kalo hand, early life IT says Andrew hated every single class except for one. So i've had a bunch of teachers who are super cool like this, my astronomy professor in nth grade, mr. Anti, my creative writing teacher and six grade.

And this really cool due to my college in new orleans, Charles cannon, who taught me a class called new orleans mythology, my three favorite classes, besides my journalists and classes, and they all, they all hit me up. And they are like, hey, man, saw you said you hated every class. Sorry, I couldn't be everything that you wanted me to be.

And so I just want to say, shout out all those teachers. I didn't hate every class. The point that I was making is that being forced into the institution of school so Young and having to take common core classes like biology. Dissecting frogs, history of the hard dynasty, stuff like that, that I didn't want to learn, but I had to learn multiple times. I mean, I learned about the dynastic cycle in ancient china, three separate times, three different schools. And I was like, who is writing this curriculum and why is IT so important that I understand this process? Yeah, the part that makes school difficult, especially in college, is that you have people just go in the school leges to get the degree, don't really know exactly what they're interested in, that they don't even have time to figure that out because there are in a business program or a communications programme with no specific interest.

I think if you want to do school right, take on every single subject that you're forced them to. It's like the David forest wallace, be unborated by IT just really go in as if ancient chinese and dynamics are the most interesting thing you could possibly .

learn and is somewhat interesting the silo in the great wall and the soldiers and that but i'm just saying, like when I got to college, I signed up for journalism school, right? And I don't get to take a media class until the second semester. I I D take everything prior to that.

And I spent so much time. I just think the excruciating bottom of schooling left a bad hates to my mouth. But there was individual classes .

that I like a lot yeah there should be some choice or maybe a lot of choice, even at the level high school for what what kind of classes you pursue yeah pressure. And you also say, so wikipedia not always .

perfectly right. no. But this is interesting because like i've said so much in padda sts, but that's what they isolated.

And i've got ten my question before. What I understand is the first thing on my wikipedia page, but that makes me sound like a super hater. Have you ever seen this instagram page of the you said .

you love journalism. What did you love about journalism?

I mean, what hooks you on a basic level? Everybody wants media coverage, right? Everyone likes to be on camera. I can get exposure for whatever they're doing.

And so being a journalist in being almost like A A portal for exposure for people allows you to be on the front row of of everything that you want to, to be a part of. You gets to be in the front role for history as as it's unfolding because everyone wants to be covered. So being a journalist gives you a ticket to everywhere that you want to go in life. And so IT allows you to step into different realities almost, and can go back to years. And that just keeps life interesting by the ticket.

Take the right hunters. Thomson is the up there in the as one of the influences score.

your influences. I think the early daily show was so good, so shaban coin, huge influence. I mean, that was like the allergy show, especially I think louth rows broadcast on BBC were great. Um I was really into hundred thousand and two, but not really into a college.

You know I really like A A particular hundred thomson book called the great shark cut where he covers the rubin cells are murder by L A P D L shift department in and boil heights and in the seventies and his relationship with his lawyer, Oscar costa, and that whole saga is great. Fear and loading, I like, but not as much as his straight forward reporting because there's the ganges side of hunter where he's like saying is taking drugs and see in shit. There's the other side of him, which is like a actual reporter interested in in telling a story that has news value. So it's two different lanes for him.

There is something about you that makes people wanted say you're the honors. Some of this generation, and I don't think they mean the drugs. I think they mean some kind of nonstandard willingness to explore the extreme of humanity, and like almost a celebration of the extremely humanity.

Yeah, well, it's a very kind of comparison. I'll get there one day. Maybe I just want to ask me on a little hunger Thompson rec on trip to go check out the woody creek tavern, which is the spot that he was like his bar near his cabin.

IT was pretty cool to see. Unfortunately, it's kind of turned into not not a dive bar now, but it's sit down sort of country restaurant. But that was cool. But I expected to see a bunch early hunters times and types 啊， what doing drugs.

I mean, drugs and alcohol is all part of us somehow. So IT opens a gateway to a deep understanding of human.

But I will say though, like as someone now who doesn't party, like I did know was Younger, it's not as important as I thought that was.

You know, i'm conflicted on this and good friends with a lot of people that say alcohol really bad for you and I believe that too. But there is something that I just as an introvert, as a person who has a lot of anxiety for me, alcohol has open doors of, like just opening myself up to the world more.

Oh, i'm actually a fan of a alcohol moderate drinking, but i'm saying, like my life before I would say twenty, twenty and twenty eighteen especially there was the chaos on camera. But then there was my private life, which was like chaotic party all the time. And I convinced myself, much like hundred did, that was the secret sauce, that in the core, the spiritual, in my spiritual court, they gave me the creativity.

But then I cut out a lot of that stuff and i'm just as creative. And it's interesting that a lot of I think one of the hardest parts about addiction is that if you're functioning highly creative of any kind, your your brain and your addictive party, your brain convinces yourself that is all part of the cross purpose that he has. This like 也 inspirational thing going on。 But it's not not true. IT can be, but it's typically not yeah .

it's not a it's not a requirement, right? You can sometimes channel, you can sometimes leverage all those things for your creativity, but the creative vision IT lives outside of that.

Like, have you read the hunters of daily routine? The year up to his death, he was like fifteen great fruits and Apollo coke, and like, just like a certain amount, shotgun shells for him to fire into the sky every morning. There's no way, and he didn't do anything creative.

and in the final years.

but so the creativity goes away and gradually just become like a party animal.

like andy dick, a cricket ure of yourself. Yeah, I mean, that's why life is interesting. You make all kinds choices.

Sometimes have a create works of genius in a short model. Time based on drugs and no drugs. Einstein had that miracle year. Well, he published several incredible papers in one year.

nine to five. Did he do drugs before that?

Lots of coke. And .

like, I believe you first, I like time have blow.

I don't think you did. I didn't think he gets that here. Come on, it's true. I'm just asking questions.

High confidence here. Look into um you know .

mean ah yeah well, no, he's a well put together, a sexy Young man. The hair came later.

attractive as a Young man, actually tractive. I I an i'm .

turned on by instead at all ages and but I even more .

turned on by the work that he did, her, his physical being.

Ah, now sometimes I fantasy what would be like to be not in the arms of vice could even get .

that out to buy instant yeah .

just I want to feel safe.

It's a good idea for a ROM calm .

to be a little more serious, like general relativity, that space time can be unified and curved by gravity is an incredibly wild and difficult idea to come up like there's a really, really difficult to imagine, given how well neutron ian classical mechanics physics works for predicting cost of happens on earth to think like, like, like the that gravity can can move space time. Both space and time is IT IT permits the entire universe of the field is a really wild idea to come up as one human on earth to that is really, really, really difficult. And it's really sad to me that he didn't get a novel Price of that.

Was there people saying he was crazy when he was around? Or was he was univerSally recognize the .

technology of this? Now I think once the papers came out, he was widely recognized, true genius. But before that, he wasn't recognize that really difficult.

So back where is a black hole? Go like after something get sucked into IT .

means that reported to another place that kind of yeah no, I don't know. I could be IT could be that the university collects with cheese full black holes. There is something called hawking radiation were the because of quantum ics, the information leaks out of a black hole. So that is possible to escape a black hole. There's a lot of the interesting question there.

I hope we get to the bottom of that.

And there's a supermassive black hole to set of our galaxy, which doesn't seem to scare physical, but IT terrifies me.

Oh yeah, for sure astronomy can be terrifying.

Yeah, we're all like orbiting. I mean, when I just orbiting the sun, but the song is part of the solar system is part of the galaxy, and it's orbiting a jagan's black hole.

Have you spoke to someone who's been in arth space?

Japes, he flew on rocket cool, as has been to deep space now, well, maybe I spoken to an alien. I just hadn't admitted.

I want to do a, uh, a research paper like a report about space madness. You know, it's supposed to be this like torture is feeling that you get when you look away from earth and into the abyss after you've exited earth orbit or whatever um because one specific psychiatrist who knows how to deal with space madness. And I want to figure out how interview people .

with IT is this the real thing like .

a pete article? Yes.

look up space madness treatment. now.

I don't. I, pete, I class.

I think more about the fact that you are isolated out in space, that we need social connection and is difficult.

Think this is the feeling of extremely insignificance that you might get sometimes when you look at the night night sky. But it's that times a thousand and it's like an existent al void that's created after looking into the abyss and and realizing help small earths in the the grand scheme. You just start to really have a strange new perception about the pointlessness ss of existence. I don't need to go to space for that. I mean, only a handful .

of people in space. But so I wonder if you have to go to space to talk to the psychiatrist. Probably so well, technically well in space. So can't that's a boundary he can't have. But not .

everyone believes that as you've seen from my. My work probably .

you're right and that's those important people. They're asking important questions. Yeah um you had hiked across us for seventy days when you were nineteen, right? Tell the story that will this sort .

of contact to what I was talking about with the of school in these common core classes. So after my first year of school, where I lived in the dorms, like old school dormitory building at a school in new orleans calloo al university, I wanted to, I wanted to just do something. I felt so bored.

I was working for the school newspaper for for that whole first year was called them around. And I didn't have the ability to write my own stories like I had to defer to an older editor and they would give me stories to write about. And they were all about like on campus happening, like the pope visits norlands or glass recycling to be restored in the french quarter or harbor boards ban on campus due to safety concerns.

And IT just kind of felt like, right. I can't wanted to be A A gonzo reporter. I'm not sure if working my way up to the traditional newsroom hir, he's gonna me to that point.

So I started reading a bunch of old hobo literature, you know, like post war war to vagabonding stuff. And there was this book called vagabonding in amErica by an old hobos ed burn. And I read this, and I just basically, I obviously someone was outdated.

They had stuff in like the hobo code, like all this monicker on the side of the fence means this person has free, super or something like that. They didn't have stuff like that. IT told me about train stop towns like duns mere, and, you know, places in montana war.

There was a friendly attitude toward drifters. And that still persists from the sixties and seventies to this day, even though, in my opinion, movies like texas change on massacre have ruined hitchhiking culture in america, because now everyone think decapitates them if they pick you up. So after my final day of courses at loyola, I literally left all of my belongings inside my dorm and took the three card to the greyhound station, got a one way ticket to betton rouge. And I was like, i'm going to hit back across the whole country, back to seattle with no money. And now that that was the plan and IT worked out.

I love IT. I tried across the states before in similar kind of plan.

You don't on the silver dog.

but is .

pretty nice.

It's a step above.

That's what's in between greyhound and anger. A car.

that's what IT is. A is a car. Yeah, car.

a shady car. OK.

I lived in a shady car. You lived in a car. Yeah, I was driving on solo with a friends, some some soul. And I would have, I would cold soup.

I love cold soup, but I like, is the cold a chick piece? And I, can you get the water out and just don't have in your mouth? Yeah, those are good beef jerky. Kind bars. Kind bars are really good for the road.

yeah. I mean, all of that is great, but too much of IT is not great, like too much cold soup. Not great. Too much. Be jerking.

So what was the right you took was at chicago across was a philothea across philadephia ross to L A. Everywhere.

uh, in the ago, but IT was a six egg, went up to chicago and then all the way down to taxes.

So you went filly through through eba tcha up to the midwest. yeah. Did you cut over the through the southwest on the sunday ago?

No, no one straight out the texas, although we don't west. So like.

but did you cut from texas west through new mexico and arizona? Yes, that is the best road trip place, interstate forty like albeury flag staff vagus kingdon the mohaves desert. Uma doesn't get Better.

yeah. I mean, in your kids, you don't care. You turn caused the wind and you meet some crazy busy .

people IT IT gives me some sanity. Like whatever i'm feeling kind of add a controller, you know, like bombed out. I just remember that the road is still out there.

The open road never goes anywhere and it's kind of like I see like an invisible door in the corner of the room all the time. That makes me more comfortable because I like a bom bombed out. I can go hit the road. I'm sure there's going to be a fun time ahead.

Yeah, I get that great hand ticket. Go I would .

say silver dog half because sometimes I got ta write the dog when I when no one pick me up, there's some places in the country where no one's gona pick you up yeah, kansas, missouri.

they're not going to do not charming enough.

He said about that. I was nineteen, fresh, clean shaven. I was pretty charming that but the older you get, the harder is to hitch because they think you're going escape, convict, some type c and some of these people are like what we call punish ers, people who never stop talking and so they see somewhat hitch. I can know like, yes, i'm going to talk at this person and you can tell that they're is why they're like, what's up? You like, oh, six hours of just like, oh, cool, nice.

That's rough yeah, yeah you're right. You're right. I like people that are comfortable in silence.

Yeah, if then that also raises the question only about to kill me.

You don't mean I think that's A U problem.

You know, it's funny. Almost everybody who picked me up when I was hit hiking. I was like a like a day labor IT was almost all mexican day labor to pick me up.

Interesting because I think that like in some places down there, that's a difficult thing to do, hitched to work like people don't have cars, but they sleep to get to their jobs. So a lot of people ask me here, where I drop you off, where is your job at? And I like my job is to explore.

And I see like for me was really easy because he just say, like i'm travelling cost states. I think people love that idea, and they want to help they romantic because they also have that invisible door. Everybody has an invisible.

I just to go see, you know what i'm talking about? yeah. And you can ancor e you a bit. Just a reminder that every pattern that I fAllen into is a voluntary and for my own stability of mental health.

But that's why I am like renting everything and i'm future like tomorrow I just go. I gave away everything I own twice in my life just very like i'm ready to go tonight. Let's go.

What's the hardest item you had to part with in this experience? There's nothing you've never had a material objective that .

was really hard to take off.

So you give that watch to somebody .

if you this you're write, you're right. That's probably the only i've never had to go of that though. That's the only thing I own. This means a lot to me, but that everything else but then again, because, okay, this watch is given to me by rogan has become a close friend but like whenever I romanticize the notion that this watch means a lot of means, but I just give you the same one again yes like very .

sick ick as gift though yeah .

pretty tty sick and I used a gift guy but you know when some you you got to guess you think is a nice of symbol of um of that relationship so but I not know but even this like whatever the relationship is what matters the human is what matters not the you .

had something .

like this not really I mean.

there was a hard drive that I lost that had all of my like childhood pictures on IT and stuff like that though I think about all the time because I left on a train. And like the certain memories you think about IT and you just get pissed off and to stick to myself, someone has that somewhere, have dreams about reuniting with the .

hard drive you in the hand by and have the same.

I don't think he wants to unit with that one. Okay, this is crazy. Like, you know, all he didn't with smoke rack, right was a more stuff going on.

And I think this process is involved.

Oh, okay, whatever.

I think you gotto look into IT.

I think I will look into.

Was carrer a jack kera and somebody that was an inspiration at all. And to know who that is, the be generation.

I know who I was. And then after I did that, ultimately, I read a book about my heart, new experience years later. And everyone was like, have you read on the road? And then on the road, I probably heard the title of that book every day at least ten times for two years. And i'm sure Carry wk is a great guy. I mean, I just don't i'm not too familiar with the beach generation.

It's a great book. It's a you ready you or know I refuse .

to read IT people even have gifted at me like a man. You're going to love this one. And anyway, is that on the road? If I honestly people have given me a book with wrapping paper on IT and there like this is really like that's broken on the road.

isn't IT give you a different cover?

Yeah like anything with that but i'm sure it's a great book, is just the comparison thing draws me crazy. But respect, big respect of Carry that would never speak down on the whole anyone. Beat generation.

What are some interesting moments you remember from that?

Those seventy days? Man, I was so much, I mean, getting mistaken for a gay prostitute on my first right in lousianner was pretty funny.

Where did you come from and where did you go?

Well, I mean, the the journey began a bad rush. And the first destination was houston, which is about foreign, a half hours west on interstate ten. So I mean, cloudy lousianner on the side of the road.

And I guess this was a cruising truck stop. There was known for being a place where male lot lizard would go to procure clients. And I was, there lot lizard are, it's a droga term and trucker culture for a prost to do, hangs out of the loves, or a pilot flying j large interstate trucking stops.

Now, truck or culture, as IT once was, is pretty much finished because of the lifestream cameras they have inside of the trucks now. So you can sort suit feat, pick up anybody. Can you pick up a ht checker or you get fired.

killed all the romance.

Yeah, definitely the check that the old school outlaw truck, her lifestyle. Unless you an owner, Operator who's not even in a union, which is like a real cowboy, waited all loads.

you can do that. You are mistaken .

for a lot of, mistaken for a lot lizard by a small man from hondas with a spiky leather jacket, covenant studs. I didn't speak any english, but, you know, I thought he was just juno, a nice guy. And then he pulled over at a there's private theatres in the south where they have confessional booths set up, and they have three channels and people go in there and you know and yeah people .

go on .

there and you know, please me so that was taking me one of the cool man. Yeah this guy wants to go to away the I but then um I was like, he buys a booth for me like, okay, you know it's not really in the mood to watch porn with this random guy so he gets in the same booth with me and he starts shaking off right next to me and like, oh man, like I don't think this is chill.

I like, can you have he stopped jacked in and often he's like, what do you mean? Like, I thought, this is what you want to do like, I have money for you what's? And I was like, oh, no, i'm just regular guy.

He was super cool about IT. He started laughing. He was like, oh, my bad man.

I thought you were, you know, selling something I said now and he said, what's all good? And he gave me, right all the boat. Houston, that's great. Yeah, we talked about anything except that for the rest of the car, right?

It's great. There is just world with that. So that .

I mean, I had about a foot in how this guys, I wasn't too scared as I had like a knife in my pocket, but I want to stab and and you .

still that that didn't like leave a ad. I figured .

that can happen again. I can't keep happening. So if I got this out of the way, the first ride following rates are going .

to be spectacular. yes. I mean, who among us have not been mistaken for a lot? Lizard.

the fact you heard here first.

what else what what is some interesting, beautiful people that you've made?

Use the APP count surfing to find ways to stay. Now can only submit like five culturing request today unless you're a premium member, which means you also .

host people all yeah a total .

but it's evolved obvious .

ly into a different thing.

Turing is freedom, right? So couch surfing, they like the C. S. community.

So basically there be these like out surfing super hosts in different cities that there is one in sani, this firefighter to do, like fifteen other count surfers there. chilling. nice.

So I would do IT everywhere. A lot of them were catholics, you know? So is their way of giving back. A lot of them were notice. And so I didn't realize that there's a small little section at the bottle of someone's count surfing profiles that says clothing optional. Yes, and that means if you go there, I thought I meant like it's cool if you walk to the bathroom and you're underwear no, if you go there, everyone's going to be blood naked so I I made that mistake a few times. Not that i'm anti notice, but I didn't want to you know I wasn't ready to take that leap of faith and yeah, I was just great culture of my hosts were amazing but that was just great was this constant thing where I felt while people are so welcoming, i'm not having to paid them a dollar for this experience.

And I love coach surfer's for like for me, being an introvert, just crashing in a person's couch, being essentially forced into a great conversation is great. Yeah.

the one thing that gets exhAusting he hiking is constantly thanking people, being in that sort of constant superficial gratitude everywhere, all the time. Like, thanks for you. Let me sleep on your couch.

Thanks for the food and them. Part of the reason I wanted to live in R. V. Later in life is to avoid having to constantly live in this. Like, thanks so much type of frequency .

because it's exhAusting. thanks.

Yeah, he was a true favorite, of course, how I love giving people gratitude for that. But just this thing where everyone who picks you up, no, you eight rides day. You're like thanking eight people a day. Thirty the second coming. He started to feel little bit debase.

what do you learn about people from that? From that journey? That's the first time really .

gonna go into IT that the american public is is so kind overall. I mean, there's so like embracing, depending on who you are. And specifically though, the Christian family, people of the U. S.

Who drive in minivans and have that that fish sticks around the backwards like jesus fish, and and they have the family sticker, you know, where each member of the family is a stick figure. Those people never pick me up and would flip me off with their whole family. Sometimes they would throw full doctor peppers at me as a family while I stood on the side of the road together.

They yellow sheet, like go to hell hippy when I was on the side of the road. And so it's weird that the most charitable Christian american family values people never gave me any charity or even conversation. They were antagonizing me and saw me as like a hippy leftover from the sixties needed to go to work gotta vietnam.

I don't get IT. yeah. But the people who really extended a hand to me is people on the margins, yeah, people working on seasonal visas, people whose cars have less than a quarter tank left, people struggling with addiction, who saw me struggling, at least they thought that I was, because they assumed I was hinch. Hiking not out of adventure because I had no car, and we're willing to get sacrifice their day almost sometimes to take me exactly where I needed to go.

That's beautiful, man. That some kind of experience that people are struggling, the most of the ones who we are willing to help you when you are struggling, these people will like in religious contacts, another kind of communities that just judge others because they've kind of constructed a value system where they're Better than others because of that value system and that that actually has a casady that forces you to actually be kind of a deck.

Yeah, I know about that way, is so true. Do you think about like morality and religion a lot?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Been a certain parts of the world, or religion is really a big part of life. I'm just always capital about tribes of people that believe a thing and they believe they are Better than others because they believe that thing that could be nations, that could be religions yeah, i've been in ukraine, in russia in a lot of hate towards the other .

yeah .

and that that he am always very sceptical of because they could be used by powerful people, the direct that hate um just so the powerful people can maintain power and get money stuff.

It's a scary thing to see how easy IT is for higher political people to mobilize the hate of just the average working person and can almost convince them to sabotage their own county men, who they they share more common with them, the politician they look up to, just to advanced the agenda. One party as what we see now.

are there are some places in amErica that Better than others can can you speak negatively of like a four mentioned joe rogan talk show about connection? Can you pick a region in the days? Can talk show .

about k show about of? sure. I mean.

from that experience is just narrow down to that.

Oh, colorado shi, really. yeah.

I know so many people.

The local, I used to think phoenix socks, but I love phoenix now, the way they build these cities to just be so circular and massive.

but just like stopping you like A.

I like grads.

men are you? Gid go manhattan.

new Lance. And for cisco, what is IT about grids .

that bring out the worst in people circles as where where there's everyone .

just vive and out? Yeah the grad gets people like having I don't know.

man, but i've never heard anyone talk shit about I have to say it's kind of refreshing. yes. IT provides a necessary baLance for the colorado .

wikipedia page. Yeah organ to I got proms the organ yeah here's the issue. You have not like to call on people racist because it's kind like a two dimensional insult.

But you have the most racist state, but the most psychotic anarchist city in the middle of IT. What is going on up there? How did this happen? The end in the Young is so extreme that there must be something in the. And later.

what do you have against an arising?

I, nothing. I used to be an anarchist. M, when I was an eighth grade, I had his friend. Mad was part of a group called seattle solidarity, which is like a anti for precise. So I grew up like going to black block process.

And I mean, there was a particular shooting, the murder of john Williams, who is a native american woodcarver in downtown seattle. He had killed by a seattle police office for him, ian burk. He, john labs, is Carrying a pipe from a woodblock with a pocket knife.

He's definite one year officer pulled a gun on him and says, put IT down. He doesn't hear him to shoot some six seconds later. So that police involved shooting is what instantly turned me into like a very critical of law enforcement kind of person when I was super Young.

And so as someone who used to see this guy who got murdered with fifty five old men, I used to see around pike place from my mom lift, it's a public market in downtown. That, to me, put me into the anarchist political sphere because just channeling the anger of that experience, and the officer got no charges, by the way, you can look up the video, horrific know and and I didn't get reported. The officer and pretty ur is still active duty. And so it's like situations like that early in life channel me toward political extremism but I grew up to realize how um incompatible that an artistic world view is with reality and with the with american society can only exist in a small little chAmber. You know, you can apply that to the industrial heartland of the country.

And I think also anarchism got to know Michael mAlice was written quite bit about analisa and its also exists as a body of about different for sopco notions that kind of resist the state that ever expanding state in different kinds ways. And it's so is nice to have extreme thought experiments to understand what kind of society you want to build. But implementing IT may not necessary be a good idea.

We ema goldman, i'm a huge fan of her writing, also the prison abolitionists that are associated with the anarchist movement, Angela Davis reefs and go more all that stuff influential. I still add here to a lot of those principles when talking about stuff like radical prison reform and stuff like that. But just I drifted more toward having a more open mind as I got older.

Extremism implemented in almost all of its forms, is probably going to cause a lot of suffering. Yeah, you worked as a dormant on the, uh, I could say, legendary burgan street in our lands. Well, you saw what you described as this might be another competitive quote. By the way.

this is where I do my research. This h scenes, hello scenes. And the down right about that.

right? Thank you. That's a win. That's one in the wind column. Um so yeah, tell the story of that was like to .

mean I was a st at a fine dining restaurant corner. I breville. So that's the first street if you go from canal street onto the quarter.

So this is like across from like a dry spot. It's the middle of the tourist corner of new orleans. And the spot was kind of like the kind of a tourist trap was called verbal house.

The food was good, chef eric, I don't want you to see this and think you don't make good ending is usages. But IT was overpressed. And so I had, we had to maintain this like fine dining facade on a street where almost everyone is like throwing up fighting as half naked.

So there was this policy. We had these giant glass windows next to the the, the tables. So after eating at at urban house, you can look out onto burgan street, and you can see, as you're dining, the full panoramic c view of all these parties, throwing beds, boobs, all that.

We have this policy where if we're serving someone, we can look on to burbling street if something crazy is happening. So there's a fight or somebody that we can look right. So there is a dude I remember I can serving a table.

There is a dude in a batman mask, but naked with twelve pairs of bees. Just joking. IT, yeah. fact.

Jin IT, he's jerking IT, right? And every every single person of the restaurants looking out there, like, look, they're taking pictures and the manager Steven looks music, some certain these people, you know, i'm like, you want you like red beans and rice or would you like some crew but and there's just a dude and you ultimately, the manager went out, escorted him further down burbling street. But, you know, I would get off work at around midnight every night.

And that was one burden street is at its most chaotic. And so I lived in the front quarter as well. So I lived, I lived about twelve by downers ban on at in a small creel cottage acute little like orange old school, new orleans, one story spot I had in the attic above these are these gay math dealers in Frank and Johnny well.

And so I would get off work, and I would basically have to walk through like this battlefield. I mean, I was a battle field. Getting home was out of like the warriors move was almost the .

humanity and display yeah .

I was like kenington philothea. But just alcohol .

is a lot, a lot of visitors.

almost all visitors. That count was set to flow for the weekend. For example, if the readers were playing the states rather nation, and they do not play around, if it's the patriot sets a whole different crowd, they think they are .

Better than everybody else yeah, but they technically are .

Better than everybody else. But yeah, but people from massage uses aren't like the cream .

of the crop in .

terms of like americans here. No.

that's i'm sure they won't take that.

They aren't good at fighting. They'll take that great new england has hands compared to some places.

Which places of those colorado color .

out has no hands? Yeah the west coast.

not too much hands. That's why you feel safe talking about .

about color to but if you get to the corn fed parts of these colorful guys get hands. And anyways, I walk back to to my house on burn street and I would be sifting through this battlefield. And I had a friend of the time who was like, here we should do, uh, a taxi cab confessions type spin off, but we ask people to confess a deep, dark secret.

And we posted the next day. And so we tried that, and I went viral on instagram instantly. IT was mostly incested stories. You know, people adding the insect. I know it's a common southern steel type, but there's some sure to IT um there is some murder confessions that was pretty razer. We never really posted any of those.

But how do you get people to confess?

Pretty easy and new baLance has a homicide solved like twenty two percent. So I mean, most of the time there, though, you just tell you, I mean, was I was was in this kid was like, what's your deep to start a secret and he told me he's like, I just smoke to do in the magna the project has in the third world project development.

And he said, I just spoke to do the magnolia player around for touching my sister, letting his sister and I was like, what? And he was like, yeah, I look IT up and I was like, alright, hold on and was like, man found dead in central city playground appeared to be homeless, shot execution style. I told the kid I was like, why do you tell me that he's like, man, put that ship out there like, i'm trying to go viral like, tag me too.

I don't think you understand that even if you're a juvenile who is five, fifteen, yeah, you go you can get juvenile life in Louisiana for a homicide even if you know justified. So I just deleted the footage in front of them. I was like, going to delete this footage.

See that trash button. I'm hit IT right now. Don't tell anyone that again and he was like, I appreciate that he walked off but little little moments .

like that anything for the gram I guess yeah .

after a while though became sort of a repetitive know because only so many things people can confess to the they go viral know .

just ah so you are trying to see like what well.

I mean, there's an instance one some people just say like I eat s that was like every everyone said that like I cheated on someone or i've seen .

a surprising number of people on your channel say mention .

eating us yeah. The way, how seriously you said that live in my head for the rest good.

Yeah, I want you. I want to live in your head saying there a lot of people mentioned eating us.

Yeah, a lot of people do mention that. yeah. Also, that's kind of where I developed this magnetism for freestyle wrapping. You know, everywhere I go, people rap. Not sure why. I mean, as a former rapper myself in middle school and for the first year of high school, I think IT may be like IT takes one to no one. But everywhere I go, people start rapping if you want me. When outside of this podcast, do you? And walk around for five minutes, I can find somebody that I can tell who raps, who can rap, who has eight bars in their head that they are ready to go.

I think you're also there's something about you that gives them creates the safe space yeah to a perform their art yeah that .

would mean the quarter confessional series was the first time you saw the suit.

That's when the show came out yeah .

I was kind of like a ron berger and the air gandrin inspired .

or you get that suit. Goodwill, good. Well.

yeah, always. Wow, I was .

playing check because you're playing chess. good.

Goodwill has a surprising amount of identical gery suits for sale. Yeah.

actually got that a three stores before there.

A lot of people donate suits, and I was going for oversize suits, which is the cheapest one there twelve x twelve to twenty doors every time for the outfit.

If I wanted to look super sophisticated, I am from another era. I will go to the store. Yeah, cause like this, there's a go like the patterns they have to say a more sophistic, which is what you kind of pick up. He made you look ridiculous.

But in this kind of the tough part about quarter confessions for me is that everybody that was featured for the most part would more or less regret being a part of the show. yeah. And that over time just gave me a bad feeling.

I was like, you know, I kind of feel like I am doing an ambush interview, especially because i'm presenting as so agreeable at the intention is to make something funny yeah. And I get that that's what people do in the sattin sphere. I'm sure L.

G. Bruno and borat did the same thing. And I don't think it's unethical because that's all for the purposes of comedy. IT is what IT is. But for me, I wanted to do something .

different yeah because there's an intimacy to confessing a thing, right? And then you just don't really realize the implications of that.

And the atmosphere burbo street is like anything goes like it's a free spirit place. But if you transport that energy digitally to a different place like colorado, they might look at IT in the lake.

different place in time, like five years later, right? That same person as a family, stuff like this. And all sudden they're talking about eating us, right? exactly.

No kids have to think about that. You imagine if there's a video of your grandma or grandpa out there when he's a kid talking about, ask as a horrible experience to discover that a about, sure, you know, respected elder later in life is tough.

I don't even know where to go with that. But is the literally the opening question is tell me you deeply as .

dark secret um yeah just .

come up to somebody like that yeah how often do you get I can know how often was the yes and no asia well.

the weird thing is like we don't really extract answers from people like what makes a good interview is when they're ready to talk, the more you have to talk and try to get answer to them. IT is not a good vibe like so we kind of look for people who appeared to be already ready to talk open body language like they seem confident robots and we approach them first. There's a look we wouldn't prove a shy person. Come on and tell me.

what about a personal pain in their eyes?

Yeah we will be in .

them yeah so the really talk is just not like, yeah, there's different ways to be ready, right? I see almost people a lot, and they always look fascinating. Animals have talked. They are always fascinating.

Yeah, we just did a video at the vague st in the vagus tunnels like trying. Obviously, you got taken down by fox.

But whatever we I was going to make a joke.

I didn't see IT. We tried to help lot of them by getting them ideas. And when I made the documentation, I had this idea that if it's a big road block for them, is getting identification with that ideas.

You can check how my shelter, you can do daylings or you can qualify for housing nothing. So when we interviewed them, they'd basically tell us if I had my ID, I wouldn't be here. And so we said, OK, we're going to really help this time.

We're not just gona talk them about their struggles. We're going to actively go out and get them ids to the D. M.

V. So we did that. And, you know, nothing is really changed in their life. And we SAT down with a recovery specialist who works directly with them day in a day out. He explained me that he's been trying to do the same thing I try to do in a one week period for the past ten years, and that they have deeper underlying traumas and pain that need to be dealt with far before they even take the steps to enter society. As a housed person.

there's a heavy truth threat there.

Breaking that shame cycle has to come first because you you think right, that from a generation did romanticizes of agency and homelessness to a certain extent if it's called van life or if IT is done in a way that sort of rolling stone, really Nelson hit the road.

People who are .

above fifty, they feel really embarrassed to be in the spiral of homelessness. They feel like failures. Lot of them have kids where they wear. Therefore, that's not the kind of pain that can be done by giving someone a tiny home is a good step forward but to for someone to really make a change, they have to want to change.

And so it's how do you help someone and guide themselves in the right direction? And if you're too pretty, alisa, and you use shame as as a method to get them to clean up, they're going to end up break where they started. Yeah, that's a tough truth to accept because a lot of people want to quick fixed to things. And I don't blame people who go out and give a loney sand, which is out to the homeless.

And each case is probably its own little puzzle.

Each person is so complex. Now imagine drug abuse what that does to the brain. Yeah, trauma, child hod trauma. There's so much to impact. And then just, uh, the belief that there the undesirables that they they they don't deserve to be a part of society because they filed a fundamental obligation like taking care their kids.

If you could take a small tangent to you, mention the biggest video, which is fascinating. IT was taken down recently by youtube or youtube taka down based on yeah, a fox five, I guess. So the document was .

an hour and forty five minutes. We use ten seconds of a news clip that was polluted broadcast by fox five vegas. And according to the copyright act of one thousand nine hundred seventy, you're allowed to use any publicly broadcast news clip in a transformative capacity in any documentary, film or research paper or broadcast or anything.

Um they specifically the corporation called a great media that controls the T. V. Stations in almost every small town.

They had lawyers hit up youtube and youtube. Youtube complied with an illegal copyright strike to get a video immediately removed. And i'm a youtube partnership in the youtube partner program. So to think that I wasn't forewarned is it's a bit strange. But IT also smells like corruption to me to a certain extent.

Yeah, you shouldn't have that among the power. The very least they should have the power to just like silence. That five ick maybe.

Yeah, but i'm taking them to court because I I have the means to be able to do so. I'm a larger creator. I have an audience. I have the financial backing to do. I can't imagine how many people out there are smaller creators with, like not as much consumer of know a fan based that can mobilize against someone like fox five or the money to go to court. So I want to take them all away there to set precedent for future cases so that these giant mainstream media, uh, copyright strike documentary filmmakers at at will doesn't make sense.

Well, thank you for doing that. That's really, really, really important and that's really powerful. And my hopefully empower youtube to also put pressure on people to not and youtube is in a difficult position because there's so much content out there, there's so many claims is heart to investigate.

But youtube should be in a place where they push back against this kind of stuff as the first line of defense, especially to protect molecule or so. What your do is really, really important. Preciate ment and IT sucks. That was taken down, I just hope. Well.

I talked to my youtube partner today and he said that the fox five lawyers have two weeks to comply with my counter appeal. But you know, I spent twenty grand on a human voice servers in five different languages. So I ve invested probably in total, like seven decades, to this video. So even if IT gets reinstated, the steams gonna been taken out of .

its trajectory ory. But also, just like a .

really the important video is good for the world. Fox five haan, vested interest in having the video taken down.

I I just hate what people do that to videos or to creators are doing.

The world is not an exposed on the matter of lost vegas. It's an attempt to show the civilian public how to get involved in a local nonprofit and potentially in the mining lives .

with the tall people. Fuck fox five the other chanel five is he said, yeah well thank you for pushing back and and highlighting IT hopefully IT gets brought back up but yeah defending other creators yeah so that other cases can take risks and don't get taken down for stupid reasons yeah so quarter confessions was written.

no. IT was all real life reality T. V. documentary. But he caught the attention of a, uh, a larger company called doing things media. yes. And they contacted me pretty much like a week after I graduated from college in the may of twenty nineteen.

And they said, hey, like, how would you like to produce a the show? How's that what you mean? They're like we'll get you an R, V, will pay you forty five, ten year. You get to, will pay for gas, for food for two times a week, go out there, make content, and will be in the background just powering at all.

And that was the birth of all gas. No bricks? yes.

I mean, all gas snow breaks was named after a book that I wrote called all gas snow breaks. The hitchhiker story, which chronical the seventy day, is only a few copies left. I'm thinking about doing a reprint at down the line, but I sold off the last hundred copies like I have. Go, yeah.

until then, you guys should go read on the robot.

You should. I do. If you can't get my book, get on the road by jack.

Carry. It's the best once April there.

okay? I'm a tourist.

Typical tourist. Yes.

i'm a typical tourist man. I'm a scope pia moon. So write that down.

What's the time when you were born? Eleven dirty, eleven dirty at night or of of course.

is typical, is going to knew IT. That's the real science yeah anyways. So the the idea of orgasm o breaks as the show was to combine the the, I guess road dog ethos of the organ, no breaks book with the presentation in editing style of quarter confessions, so as to take courter confessions on the road.

That was pretty much like a simulated hitchhiking experience, but with the editing and like punchy effects of corner confessionals, which is like, I wear a suit, we do the fast zoom is little effect, stuff like that. IT was a man does the best years I was. I was just so fun. I mean, imagine you're fresh at the college.

You were just a dormant interviewing people about, like, you know, making out with their cousin and stuff and then boom, this company that you never even heard of this willing to buy you an R V and give you forty five k year, which to me at the time was more money than I could possibly imagine. So I called my dad. I was like, dad, I need you to find me in an R V, because he's the only guy I know who knows about cars, and even he doesn't know much of my cars.

So as they are, am on IT. So the R B was twenty thousand in the first event that we were called to cover with the the burning man festival and that that was tough because burning man is not too keen on filming. Supposed to be a non commercialized, you know, escape from the from reality and have a gift economy set up.

It's based upon like mutual participation and non exploitation. And so the idea of making a burning man video was tough at first, because burners often times, and this is not all of them, but are pretty well off in general. Lot of them have tech jobs, are pretty high up.

And silicon valley and burning men, where they go to take off, you know, to take the edge off and basically become their burner persona on the player. They become reborn. And they take IT amin, and they wear collide scope glasses and steam punk cats and, you know, sort M D, M A. And they run around the descent.

Listen, that's what I need. you. I thought .

it's a pill. I know it's Better to .

take IT in a pillar of water, but you can .

snore them level ninety minutes. That right? yes. So anyways, we didn't know what to do because we would try to film.

The initial idea for augmented bricks was to, instead of asking people what's your deepa stark a secret IT was, what's the crazy st trip you've been on? So the idea was to not satirize drunk people, but satit ized people who are fried on acid. And we want to bother real quick to the test interview with some lady.

You talked about seeing ancestral aliens during a peyote retreat. And so it's pretty easy to extract trip reports from hippies and, you know, got a punk and stuff that are rugged. So we go to burning men h, we start asking people like, you know what you're crazy st trip story.

And they didn't have the same type of free flowing storytelling style that like a on the street crust punk in in north might have really like, I don't give a fluke, I tell you, whatever. These people were very bottled up about what they were willing to disclose. So we went on burning men radio and we did a broadcast and we said, hey, we're doing.

We're psychiatric journalists, was me of my friend. See you at the time I said we're psychiatric journalists. We're parked on ten and I, which is across street and black rock city and we said we have a nineteen and ninety eight cataline a coachman sport.

It's an R V. We've set up a podcast studio. We're doing a show about psychiatric voyages.

Yeah so lone behold, two hours later, we had ten people lined up at the R. V. Willing to talk.

So that did people in advance for us. And so we did a couple interviews. And that was.

that were some of the stories from the chopper reports.

There was this lady in rosa a, who said that he was known in several circles in berkeley for being multi orgasmic and could create multiple repeated climate, is using only her mind by, like squinting her eyes and squeeze her eyes together so much that, like the pleasure spired, or just, you know, went crazy.

I think guys talk to several people like that burki.

Yeah, you know, i'm talking about that.

Oh yeah, that lady, I think you manifest herself in manifest.

Yeah, bright. So, but still I was on the crude end. There was one guy name, kimbo slice was spring name. He talked about taking a shit after taking like a quarter of mushrooms and how he was like seeing his visualizing, his past life, you know, as the the first were flowing into the toilet, and just talks about the psychiatric union between pooling and taking taking strips.

And so he is very visual with his word, yes.

So there was stuff like that. I interviewed ex. Gray, which is super cool, about his first trip and emphasis o when he was in one nine hundred and seventy one, shortly after the summer of love, I got to do some pretty cold interviews.

But still, IT was a semi ambush style. I wouldn't say that we were doing journalism yet. IT was still comedic video work.

You know, was there a narrative that tied together is that could really just a trip committee almost with the interview?

And then I go burning man, and then it's to the next one so I guess that could give a loose structure but is just like a punchy and slapstick um everything was going good until we interview this guy name, D J. Soft baby. He was wearing a golden leotard, uh, with once again collide a scope glasses dancing like, you know, dancing and uh husing shouter out of A A plastic ball.

And he was like, this chatter of folking goods like this was the best chatter around in my life. And he starts putting the chat on his face. I want to charter all over me. yeah. And so we we just go in. And can you just do a dance for quick? As for some beo, he does a dance we post on instagram ment next morning doing things media CEO calls me read, he says all of our pages are down and is like that guy you fill dancing last night on drugs, putting children on his face, a guys at the top of MIT.

I don't understand. My brother .

is a rocket. He's .

like head of nasca.

I mean, the guy knows people in boston. Okay, you know, not in the wide bulgar sense, but in the reverse sense.

I have trouble believing that DJ soft baby.

oh, DJ soft baby was major IT could have been, harvard could have been, but IT wasn't IT you mask so I don't .

think there's anybody that's a quote at the head of A I T who is putting um well was IT all .

over his face chowder shoulder well then .

you haven't been a burning man yet. Okay, so I have to consult the my colleagues. Mt, they know, baby, so probably was harvard them.

Okay, the top of harbor. So he made some calls, you know, to the top, to the heads of big tech, got all the doing things media pages taken down at the time. That was like a vast network pages, and we ended up having to take the, obviously, the video came down and he held the entire network of instagram pages hostage.

And so that was he he made us agreed to never post that video again, and then somehow got all of the pages reinstated. So that was my first brush with, like, you know, powerful people on drugs. And that was about my last brush with those people on the.

so what did you transition into?

Uh, I think after burning men, we went to the south, went to tally date, a race weekend, went to a doll, trump to junior public signing, went to a juggle, a jacon fetish mansion in central florida called the sausage .

castle jug lo, a jacon 呃， source OK. Can you can? Can you run that by me again?

A jug, a jent fetish mansion and central floria OK .

fetish mention central floor a jug. I, Jason, I mean, every single one of those words that you like needs a book or something. So, uh, we who are the jungles is I I.

I think but I say Jason, because it's not a jug, man, but there's lot of g you kick at the friendly.

okay, juggle friendly. Yeah.

because they get made fun of in a lot places .

also not okay.

I got IT and jug's say outrageous and they embarrass myself and fight a lot. They're on the f gangs. Ask me.

jug s the glows IT was the the have of the juglans IT will be violent.

J and shaggy tudou but there's associated x like twisted and there's a whole rabbit. Honestly, technical is sort of a part that tech.

I don't know that is should .

I know he's actually one of the top selling touring rappers, despite having sort of not that many streams. Technical is like, got a huge cot following in missouri, this is like the jugular started in war.

And michigan, we should also say, I, C, P, in same calm. Pi, so this is a thing, is a movement.

Oh yeah, if you went to seattle right now and punched a cop and they booked you in county jail, you may end up running .

with the jugglers, running with the jugglers.

They are of presence in pacific northwest prizing system.

from what i've heard.

Can you tell a jogger from like a distance? They say also like i'll try to there kind of, it's called the dark carnival method. Gy.

they abide by what they define themself, the idea, not understand what the ideology was like, the physical .

ical foundation of the other anti racist. They like to drink, father, and also just like cheap liquor and stuff like that, they they're into drugs yeah, a lot of circles, if you put out to crack, five people feel like I don't want to drink with you anymore. For a jugful party and someone smoking twins or something, it's relatively accepted. I was twice math.

math right right last, a tatooed. Yeah.

the hatch man is the most common one. So it's a the psychopathic records logo. It's a cartoon of a clown willing a hatchet.

actually a pretty sick logo. I vig. They remember enjoying some of the I C.

P. music. It's good. That's prety good. It's funny.

It's eggy. They get saturius ed a lot, but I got love for the clowns. And also so when I guess no breaks transition away from you know rich elite drug parties and select the south, that's when the fun really started to happen. Living in your arvie in alabama and florida and stuff is the best.

why? why? What is that?

People are just so friendly down there and is warm around, and people are non judgmental, is just great. The south gets hated on a lot, especially in the coastal states, mississippi. Obama can't like the butts of lot of jokes and stuff, but there's a great states.

Now, I love in new mexico.

Barky all those. Oh yeah, that be cuse. It's great. A B Q was a albuquerque. What Jesse pigment called is the A B Q.

Oh, shit. The the depth of references you bring to the table is intense. Okay, I met a lady now, a perky all around accra. Sing the next days and he said, take me with you. So so, I mean, I can yeah, but I think about that lady.

think you made the recall.

I don't know on the road. yeah. By jack.

Og, best book I ever read of my life.

There's a, there's a moment when he meets A A nice girl on a boss, never love affair going on the bus.

Ter, no, no.

Here they want to california ah and there was a love of fair on the bus but that wasn't sexual, was just romantic IT was .

IT was in the air .

IT was an air which there is something in the air on the bus uh like a great home mega bus that have a situation.

There's certainly in the .

air as a romance. There is, man, we travelled because it's exchange is getting together and you like feeling each other out. And but you're in IT that you each have a story because you wouldn't taking a bus and unless you have a story, so you're especially if you traveling across country.

something ever taken the dollar bus from fill in new york to china bus yeah I that's a great bus. The people on that a fucking dollar though IT was there's some that are five books.

If you book a ahead of time, which it's like twenty dollars like this is fucked in line calling one door and wang came .

are sometimes when I I was a rooster walking on the isle. And yeah, what child was awesome.

The nice party, your film of the rooster.

I about .

that yeah, I felt almost fake.

yeah. Did you plant the rooster now? The rooster, there's a place in ebor city in tampa, where rooster ers walk around all the time. And we had a rooter park there ripe by the main drag for. But I say at a rooster park, we had the R V park eba city for a long time and had rusted.

laid eggs in the the other .

cage that's the auguin mbr ACE. So IT was lots IT was really fun making. And then we started all gas breaks in september of twenty nineteen, six months later, the country shuts down and everything just hits the fan.

I was actually here in Austin when IT shut down. I was on six street. And I remember the, I don't just hang out on six.

three all the time, but I was just come.

I do like six street. Yes, I like east dom Better. I like six street too.

So anyways, the NBA shots down, everything shutting down. And I went down to the dirty six. And I asked dorman, I was like, you guys ever going to shut down?

He was like, folk, no, bro, the dirty six never closes. And I was like, alright, we will see about the next day playwood. And then I was like, alright, I thought my career was over when copy hit, I was like, what are we going to do?

Nothing is happening anymore as no more parties or teledata races or burning mans to go to. So I went back to see ado and R, V. And I just spent four months depressed living in the R. V.

to trying to figure out what would happen. But all gas snow breaks went on.

still full. This was the crazy thing about that period of time, is that when when copied hit, i'm sure you remember everything turned political yeah overnight in seattle. If you went to a house party, you can get cancelled you know because people are like all your super spread er so if you want to to socialize, even with the group before more you had to do so with your phones, dam there turned off.

And a lot of people are doing hyper social policy at that time. Beyond that, in the south and in more conservative places, they were doing the opposite. They were trying to prove that they can hang out five hundred deep with no mask to make a statement against the establishment.

So you have this polarization that LED to more division. And that's when the antioch protest started. And I went to screen o and the passion was unreal.

This is about, this is about two months after the cove d lockdowns. To begin. And that was my first political video, was at the schema, the california stake capital on schema, documenting the, they called IT, the freedom rally.

But that's typically like anthidia stuff. And IT was real intensity, and that video was my most successful to date at that time. And so I was like, okay, my political reporter now do, am I covering politics? Like what's going on?

Where were the interviews they made up their video? Kind of what style questions would you ask? Would.

I don't know if you've remember, but I was actually scared when the pandemic arted. I thought that this is something that might kill us all based upon what I was consuming. And so i'd asked people, what do you think about this lockdown? And i've had people say, you know, i'm immune compromised if I get exposed to code that I ve ninety five percent fatality rate.

But guess what, i'd rather be free and dead than a live, live in in fear and was like, well, so is just stuff along those lines. You had some Sandy ago surfers. They are complaining about the beach is being shut down. Such awesome ways .

for going yeah it's interesting of that really brought out the worst in people oh yeah. And why why that is fear, maybe paranoia? I don't know. I really divided people like along lizer you mentioned like triple mask yourself or fight for your country .

yeah right exactly. Why is this the two options .

that early .

what IT was ah and both groups think they're fighting for the survival of something yeah and so that's where you really run in the problems. When you have two polarized groups who both think that their causes for the common good mutual understanding is impossible at that. Juncker, and so after three months of almost every everybody being locked down, George fluid happens.

And I remember I saw the third percent burning on my phone in many applications. And everyone says, Andrew, you have to go cover this and i'm somebody like I said, you know, police violence has been close to my heart since I was a kid. And my first thought is I can't do that.

I'm a comedic reporter. I can't go to many apples and cover this. It'll be the end of my career.

And I had a friend in lacy who I went to college with, and SHE told me he was like, brow, this is your chance for you to do something serious. You can actually create a meaningful piece of reporting like you always wanted to before quarter confessions. And you can turn off gas, no brakes, into a new source.

So I called read, who is the C. E. O of the company, company that owned augat stal bricks.

And I was like, look, man, I want to go to any. I was in our land at the time. I was actually at the sausage castle. And he said.

he said, the sausage castle.

yeah, the juggle. All right, call the .

sausage castle.

So i'm watching many apples unfold on lake street, where was burning. And I would got to the orlando o airport and I booked a flight without I built on my own card. I didn't consult my boss for anything.

And I was sitting in my seat on the flight and he he stride up, told me he's like, if you fuck this up in, this destroys the brand, we're getting a different host. This if you mess this up and you turn our our show away from a party show about drinking and drugs and all that stuff and you make this social justice show, you're done. But I was like, I just turned my phone off.

I got to the minneapolis airport on the second night of the riots. And when I got to the airport, there was national guardman in the airport. And there was, I was like, a call of duty mission, the one of the airport.

And on the speaker, they say, if you arriving here right now, you are not permitted to go anywhere outside of the airport, national garden man, score you to your uber or to your car. They are going to take a picture of your I D. They're going to figure out where you're going.

You were not permitted to go outside tonight. And so lacy picks me up. There's two people in the back, two of her home rows wearing like sheep mask.

And what are we doing? What where we going? And he goes, we're going to go to film the right. We're going to the lake street and so we drive down there came out is burning, target is burning. Everything is on fire.

SHE has the SONY a seven SHE gives me a microphone and she's like, go talk to that guy and that was a guy with a molotov cocktail in his hand who had just burned, came up, down. And so I go, which I ask him, he is what's on your mind. So I walk up to him and what's on your mind.

He said something like, everything that was happening here was supposed to happen. This is how we feel is IT right? No, is just going to benefit the community. No, that this is how we feel.

This is how we feel. That's pretty powerful. ful. Yes, that's a throw. A lot of the the documenting, the e do. This is how we feel is like, yeah, screaming through that yeah and I noticed the .

decide from a group called unicorn, right? There was no one else actually interviewing the protesters. The local news was on the bridge fifteen, fifteen, but five blocks away, you know, filming just the scene itself, just the fire.

But I saw some crazy things off camera, too. I saw so there was kind of tube groups there. There was like the the anarchists, more mobilized protesters.

And then there was just mostly african american community members who are just pissed to have not to do with the organic resistence. And they were all kind of joining forces to write. And there is this anarchist kid who ran up to White castle with like a molotov cocktail.

And he was he was about to throw out at a White castle in this black you an up to and grab his arms and he's like, we fuck with White castle. And I was like, what? And so you see, if you go on lake street, every business is burned.

And White cash me asus. All these dudes rip this A T M out of a bank and hitting with sledge hammers. They were a group of friends hitting IT a sledge hammer, right? The he was is boom. All the sudden money starts spring out of the ATM like i've never see them should like this, like pouring out of IT.

And then this group of friends who were just united in getting IT open start fighting each other for the money as as flying out of IT and so was just IT was like a like joker from the batman's army type type vibes. But I got shot and asked by the national guard. IT was no good like a yeah yeah not feel like honestly IT hurt.

I'm not sure what I was expecting as I answered to that question. Yeah.

I like IT. IT was good. yeah. And then after that, I posted the video and I was very well received. And that was the pivotal point where I realized that everything will get changed.

I mean, there is a still kind of a committee government to the way you do conversations, to the way you add. So did you see yourself as a potential like a job to a type of character?

But at the first, but you know, I just think human being in a cool thing about john's do IT. I'd generally like to say that anybody who works for corporate media, whether become a central or any by time Warner, fox, M S, M B C, they can say what they want. Because in order to climb up in those organizations, you have to appease the narrative of the company that you're working for to rise on the ranks.

John start, I feel like, has so much cloud in the media world that i'm pretty sure he can say whatever he wants. Like I actually don't think that James do IT is control by anybody. I really don't. I think that he can go on the show and talk .

about whatever I do think that certain people have broken the brains of COVID, broke the brains of a lot of really great people admire trump, broke the brains of a lot of people I admire like to wear truck rangement. And he became a thing you can't see the world quite as clearly because of IT. And I think, uh, john store is quit genius at, like stepping away even though the world needed him in that time, stepping away during the moment of trump and coming back now. So being able to reflect being to a sort of the other statement .

my favorite john Stuart moment that illustrates that perfectly is whenever he went on the colbert show and he was just joking around with Stephen called bear, who I think is a fool lon propagandist about, uh, the u hand lab league theory. He was just go and around, and he was, like, called the corona virus lab, and they had before.

And now what do we have? And I was like, you could see in Stephen colbert that he was like, gun to his head type ship. Like john. John, stop joking about that yeah and that made me realized like, oh, everything that john Stuart did, especially for the nine eleven first responders, he is a true american and not in the sense of like the different political parties want you to believe is an american not to do your part in social distance american, not a, you know, wave, wave your trump flag in the back, your pickup truck american, just a guy who genuinely stands up for what's right.

There is a degree to which you can be in those positions easily captured by group thing, though, even when you're not controlled by bosses and money on all that kind of stuff. And I think Johnson was a mostly resistant, but it's it's hard. His position is difficult.

think he's done the best. But if someone is obviously democrat connected yeah corporate media economy, he seems to be the freest .

talker yeah. So this when you first became famous.

i'm not even sure what fame means. I mean, I just see myself with me. When did you get the shades? Well, that was on tour.

That was that the whole, the shades at the dark time. But the. I didn't make .

this is a mean, really I don't even I did.

I didn't make journalism to like become famous. I made IT to give people a platform to share their stories IT. Just so happens that people liked IT enough to where I became sort of famous.

But you know, if I could go back and not be the on camera guy and just platform the stories, I would. But the reality is people need to face to attach this stuff they like. And so that is holiday days. But yeah, I would say read around mini apple is protest, portland protest, proud boys rally time when I was really in there, when I started to be a claimed, is more than just like a ambush meme. Lord.

did that have effect on you the fame? Not at that point, not at that point. So I you are still able to have a lightness to you. Well.

the country was basically closed. yeah. So IT wasn't like there was a street to walk down where people were, look, there. Is that guy so getting famous? Famous during covey made.

So when the country reopened, IT was as if like I my life really changed because I was like, all these fans I made during covered, like seeing me out of the bar is is cool yeah if if first famous, the best thing ever, because you can go anywhere in the country and these spaces that you Normally feel a bit insecurity, like a local dive bar, a cool restaurant, a coffee shop where you just be another guy, all the and they are like, oh my god, i'm a big fan. Give you like free stuff. You get the sense of acceptance that you have never we've got before. So but there's .

also the .

dark .

I saw all love and I I love. I mean, just speak to the first part. You're saying is so much love .

that people have and i'm sure you know what he is like beauty. The only downer of fame really is that you can't really be anonymous again, and you have to seek out more strange environments to be anonymous in.

Like right now, I live in the desert, basically, and I want to live in the middle of nowhere in the mahadei desert, not because i'm scared of people, because I just want to be like, curious me again, people don't know, and I can ask questions to people that i'm interested in without them going. I remember, I see, I see you here, or I seeing you there. That's the main. That's what I loved about.

hate hiking. Yeah, I just to have an .

animated yeah best. But I both are great, complaining about famous as the lamest shit.

yeah. Will you go to furry conventions that you covered? We weren't were worn out that furry.

I should do that.

yeah. Should we should go to get out time, go together. What's your favorite of .

I have not I think you might like IT more .

than you think I listen, maybe i'm just afraid to face why am really .

I am yeah here first the true legs will come out when you're yeah in a thirty six hundred and everything is the lizard. Is that what they go? Well, scale is are the lizard errors? And there is a big division in the community where they think scales are going to duce bag because the scale suits are more expensive. About seven grand, where as a first suit is thirty six hundred. So and there are also a taller yeah so when the scale is pull up to the perfect, it's like, fuck the reptiles.

Fuck the reptiles. I can get behind. I like like more no more like a teddy bear type c yeah I think there's I was that that may be square. I don't know. Oh.

schools are so cool. Change square. Want to put a go to on one. I just see what to help they do.

Um you are talking about the conversation with the the guy ahead of doing things. Media, how do that end up?

Well, I mean, I wanna clear up a few things. Read the C E, O of doing things. Actually, he's a good guy. I think that he was just trying to run a business.

He saw what was working for his brand, which is very college centric, very festival centric, and he was right to think that journalism and especially coverage of sensitive topics like code or you know, police brutality, would definitely not work on merch. You know you're not going to sell a picture of me interviewing someone at a right like you would mean interviewing a ferry, a drunk dude. Now obama doesn't work the same.

So that was a lot harder to modified just because of youtube censorship, but also just because of the same senator of the content. So readers looking out for himself as a business man, there was a different partner who I am not going to, says his name. There was more connected in hollywood. I think he is responsible for the the collapse of the show.

What was the clubs like?

What was so right is the country's reopening. I get A D. M from eric warham of timing and i'm covering something called the uf mega conference in laffin vata, which is a beautiful a river town.

And you know, he, the end of me says, let's make a show and i'm like, oh, SHE, is this real? know? I grew up such a big fan of a Nathan for you and the other country show.

And those are produced by their company. absolutely. So I was like, hell le, let's do IT. Three days later I get to call us, says jona hill wants to hop on board and like, I can't believe this, you i'm still in the R. V, and i'm in laughing nevada i'm like, jona hills super bad you hit me right now so I was excited and uh and money ball john.

how's a great actor is great and yeah and he's got the created by now, but still is more.

So basically, just within a week, I assembled this super team of timing, super bad team yeah, pretty much .

of and joy hill.

and yeah, we just pitched ed IT around every single TV network rejected IT. I don't know why, and they mainly did that because I was in this weird situation where I had signed a contract with doing things, media that I didn't realize was called a three sixty deal. Let's put the use like the rap role, basically means that I can't do anything outside of them without them getting one hundred percent of the money.

So if I was to go work at sparrow or quiz nose while I was working for all gas, no breaks, they would get my five hundred a box a week from the sandwich spot. I was unable to earn any outside income. I didn't read the fine print because I was twenty one.

And like I told you, forty five K A year. R, V, sounds sick, yes. And a, basically the T, V networks were like, why would we buy a show if the digital brand going to be running at the same time? Because they didn't want to stop doing all gas brakes to make A T V show.

They wanted all gas sal brakes to continue as a web show, while orgasm o bricks as a future T V show. That show timer who lower somewhere like that, was also concurrently running, which is impossible for one man to do. And so every T, V networks that okay, we're not doing everyone exclusive rights contract with this go ah next oh yeah, this is crazy.

I think about is that all happens so fast. So johna hill says eight, twenty four films wants to do a movie instead of a show, and they are going to let you keep the digital brand running. So this meant that I could keep doing my instagram stuff with doing things, media slash organ, no breaks, while making an eight twenty four movie with john hill in timoner.

Ic, so I was just like, I was excited that sounded perfect. So they said, okay, what do you want to make a movie about? And I told them, okay, here's what's onna happen, twenty and twenty twenty.

If trump wins, there is going to be riots across the country. The major cities are going to burn down. If trump losses, the militias and his local supporters are going to try to have a cup in dc.

So what I said and I said, i'm onna, follow the lead up to whoever wins the election and i'm in a document what happens after so they said, okay, and I was to begin filming in late october, you know, during the campaign trial, maybe mid october, up until november, and then in the following months to see what would happen. This meant that I couldn't film anything for all gas, no bricks, the digital show, because I had to dedicate a hundred percent of my time to making this perfect movie. Still, one of the partners are doing things.

Media was demanding that I not only produced the movie, but also more content for the show. And I told them only so many hours in a day. Men, that's gonna impossible.

And I said, if you want IT to be possible, I can make IT work, but I want to have half of the motivation from the show, fifty percent profits. Flint, which I thought it's fair if you want me to do double work. When I was getting almost nothing before, split me in on the profits, they fired us immediately.

Me and my two childhood friends who are hired to work on the show with me, we're all out of a job. As we were filming for the now H. B. O project, we got our fire notices.

The gods are those and that person because you should be owning probably close to a harder percent of, I think so too.

They didn't see IT that way because they figured we made the initial investment. We discovered him is how that they looked at IT. So he wasn't read, but I was the other partner who wasn't read, who said we have tons of verbel a he said this, we have, I have tons of connections in the comedy world.

We can replace Andrew overnight. I'm not sure why he made that miscalculation. I wish you would have thought about its twice. I wish you didn't have to end like that, but IT did.

Why do people do that? I was the benefit of, I think, do you get part ably without the drawer?

I think all betrayal in anything like that is motivated by self interest. But the economic success, social stability, whatever IT is, they figured that because I was being such a burden and asking for the profit, that they could just release me and find someone equally talented and not split them in so they can make more money.

I I see what stupid way to think people think .

like them. And people who are the word that uses like side take synergy, that when people are kind of a part of the production, but they are not integral, they started thinking that the front man doesn't matter or something, and that the brains of the Operation are actually the people on the.

And so they started to believe that they can just shift things around and the audience won't care, not realizing that I was actually the one who created the show. And the law of the show is connected to my rise outside of their jurisdiction, if that makes sense, like the people who watch all gas, no bricks, watched quarter confessions and read the book. And so, you know.

this happens also not just financially, but just with people that a part of a team, they don't really contribute creatively to the team and they they force their opinion or pressure yet mean whether is consume um like for editors or all that kind of stuff or from sponsors or the there's pressure they create when when the the creator alone should be celebrated and have all the power because there are the ones that are creating the thing.

In a way, I have sympathy because I I can't relate to that because i've always been the front man of my own projects by design. So i'm not sure what it's like to be like someone's owner from a content perspective. I don't understand the chAllenges they face. Maybe there was something that I didn't understand.

I don't know true. Well, often if you own a thing like there's like this company, you do think about brand and then maybe have a big picture idea what brand means in that det can be attention with the the create project, right? Yeah like but ultimately freedom for the creators is the best kind of brand.

yeah. I remember all three of us who worked on all guest bricks got fired at the same time. And we were, we were in the R.

V. That timex company bought for us, which was a bigger R V. In the parking lot, parking lot of a walmart in south illy. And the proper in had just ran out and IT was fifteen degrees outside. So like the argue was getting really cold, really fast. And I just looked at my phone and he was like, you're fired and I was just like, god helped me but i've had a couple moments like that and god does help me.

And there were always in the parking on a walmart.

right? Yeah.

although I know that walmart.

by the way, the one itself feel is great. Yeah, great. But technically, now you can park in R B there.

Well, not a man falls. The rules. Well.

think he goes. walmart. Cracker beria in big five are supposed to technically all let R, V, campus park overnight.

But if there is like a crime problem in the city, whether at they can love, individual walmart can lobby with the corporate to take that away. So like all the pollin walmart, you can sleep anymore. Any city would like significant homelessness and like petty property crime. The walmart, no go.

fascinating. So that was a low point .

yeah .

and but from there from the ashes, e's defense, x rose over time. Yeah channel five was born.

Chal five was born in the march of twenty twenty one after a we finished filming for the H. B. O project.

Oh, really. So you went all in on the H B O project.

Yeah, I mean, we film the H. B. O project from november twenty twenty up until April twenty twenty one demir. We are just like, you know, picking up the pieces is going back for individual interviews, stuff like that.

So let's go to that project. IT turned out to be a movie called this place rules.

We supposed to be called amErica hits itself.

Yeah, maybe you can tell the story of the film you have. What's this name? All of this down joker gang and gun gang.

Is that correct? The opening ene, the opening scene of two characters. He's talking shit and then getting into a fight. And that I I think was really brilliant. How you present the dad as a almost like a microcosm of, like the division between the the extremes, the last, and the extremes of the right.

Exactly, we picked up on IT.

Yeah and then when I really like this that the joke again um joke again was kind of a little proof of spoiled er alert apology but at the end of the film, as a kind of voice of wisdom yeah he said that .

he seems the most same. He was the voice of wisdom. He like cut through IT yeah I also just realized a lot of people are going to stream the movie after .

watching this podger, which is cool. Yeah where stream IT .

H I never got a chance .

to promote a in. X man, I wish we could all just pay and and you do or something. yeah.

And h bill gets the profits or whatever. But like, it's such as have to subscribe for every single thing. But yes, if you want to watch IT through, I recommend extremely highly. Sign up to H, B, O, whatever the hell.

On the positive note, H B O was great to work with like that. They're the most professional, like, respectful company have ever worked with.

Pretty yeah. H problem is created as some of the greatest.

like T, V. But even in the background, like they get shit done there, there's no is no way time they have some of the best heavy hitters on our team for trailers, for posters. All the promotional apparatus they have is .

like a super solar. Did you get like good notes from people there?

Like A A little bit .

man but you it's a truly original documentary. I meaning like I just haven't seen anything like IT. It's even like it's so like there's a humor and a lightness of the right kinds of moments.

Um like like I said, there's like a rooster in your that's like okay that's like not secular like thing as part of a storytelling IT kind of intensifies and reveals the absurdity of the division and how one wants like twenty six happens like every goes to the next yes like what happened was IT was almost like a delium that everybody was participating in some weird just like, well, like people say mind virus like also which just get captured yeah and people just like yelling each other doing the most ridiculous ship. And I mean really generous the way you presented especially just reveals the circus of IT all. I mean.

I really broke the the fourth wall asi a describe IT because if you were at january six in the lead up, IT felt like I was the beginning to a series of similar riots. But I just popped off so much that does IT. You haven't seen nothing, anything like that since I was supposed to be a second one on january twenty th.

That was the actual inauguration and never happened. Who is a crazy time to be alive and around? And especially the relationship that I developed with in rica tario, who is the former chairman of the proud boys he is now facing, you know, twenty three years in prison.

It's a trip because I went to his house in miami, maybe two weeks after january y six. And talking and IT seem like he didn't think anything was going to happen. He was just like, M.

N, I was crazy and glad I wasn't there. Like they're dumb for doing that. He even told me he doesn't think the election was stolen, which is just a mind fuck. It's like, worry. Why do you get everyone so hyped up? Is just weird to think about how so many people's lives or drastically altered forever because of that just bizarre moment in time that will always live on yeah .

what what did you q on this part of this story? Would you learn I about killed out for that um .

just all encompassing world of you that family that I talk to, I called them the q in on family but it's called dispenser family you know they were non political up until the stopped the steel movement began in september of twenty twenty and within four months their entire life revolved around the mythology in law of q and i've never seen in my life a side up just devour people's minds in such an intense way, in such a rapid period of time.

And I love how the kids in the movie are also the voice is a wisdom and sponsor families, the kids who like goes to the full journey yeah of like believing that whatever hilary clinton is a lizard, just believing all the the worst versions of the conspiring there is and then kind of waking up as I was the point yeah I was .

heart breaking to see his disappointment in his dad for even, you know, following human on so military because he was like, I feel like they let my dad down. I feel like they let our family down, you know, because january six was supposed to be the day according to human, on that the storm happens and that the military is supposed to mobilize and arrest the members of the deep state.

Clinton sorrow, all that trump was supposed to go to a helicopter. You know, to meet and take control of the country back from, you know, the song and IT didn't happen. In fact, the next day he was like almost announcing IT.

Now he doesn't. But then he did. And I was really, I think I hurt people's pride a lot.

My my friend, forty ado below is a trump rapper. He describes IT that way. He says a lot of people's pride.

Got her by janusz trump rapper, oh yeah. Do you do? I only see there's some pretty dub trump rap out there. I'm serious.

They yeah .

like you would think like, oh yeah, maga. There's no rappers there but there's rappers and they do a pretty good job. They're good at delivering the messaging they want to deliver yeah I mean, they think of stuff that i'm like that's clever.

Oh there like they have some political dept. yes. Well, I mean, is there's something more you can say about like hocking on that works like could behind it's your sense of who's behind the whole thing, you know.

I don't want this to sound rude. Anything I just don't care about you on. You know what I mean, i've i've put so much thought into IT and I just can't seem to care about IT was IT like going a .

disappointment because I get the to me was like a thing that just captured a very large number of peel's minds and then they just kind of faded.

I guess that's why it's it's like it's gone. And the ideas of queenan have just bled into mainstream standard conservative inking.

But there has to be a kind of retrospect. But this a problem have with code. You know, a lot of how happened, everybody freak out.

There's a lot of big drama around IT. And now every lessons learned. Has anyone learn any lessons? Yeah .

exactly. I I don't want you on adherents to see this and think I don't care about them. But like as far as who was behind IT, the damage is done. Yeah.

the mechanisms that made to work. I mean.

really have you like thought about that?

I I kind of think that these viral ideas can be driven by in your film, kind of shows this, but just a handful of people and are Normal levels. They just want to cloud yeah and there's something sexy. There's something really sticky about conspiracy.

There is like expressed extreme ones. You just kind of like IT. Some of them can have this momentum. They capture the minds of a lot of people. And you just go with IT yes. And like when I hear some conspiracy theories, like there's something like a small part of me that can like.

yeah it's it's possible me know that cun on is a sigh up to distract people away from actually uncovering IT what the deep status and who is truly running things behind the scenes. Because the deep state is just the one percent that you you get people so close to any type of class conscious ness and then you totally divert everything into, like lizard humans who live on the moon and that Hillary clinton is eating babies on camera and human on did just that. They want you to, they want to convince you that one, there is no conservative deep state, which is even more hilarious, that trump isn't connected to a huge, rich corporate APP atis of propagandists, and two, that the democratic establishment is the only deep state, and that some medal, middle of the road conservatives, that there's no grifters or manipulators outside of of that three head snake.

You know, there's grifters everywhere, everywhere.

Everyone wants to make money. Do this is the world that we're in. It's in collapse. Everybody wants to make money. And engagement is the rule of law.

So anything as why these news organizations follow retention incentives? They want to make money by selling ads. So they try to create fear and constant division to enrich the corporate media establishment.

And you have people who are almost realizing, hey, IT seems like fox and seeing and maybe all the same people, and are tactically using these machines to keep us divided perfectly, fifty, fifty, to ensure that the power structure never gets disrupted. And then you, then you get these people, you know, who's going to say us, Donald trump, that's the guy. How is that? The guy is not the guy.

I don't have. T, D, S. I don't. I'm not an orange man, bashful, who thinks about the good time, but I don't think he's the .

guy you were shirtless, lifting weights while whisky or some alcohol poured into your mouth by Alexis ones in this movie, and they needed the same to him. That's true. This feels like an interrogation.

So alex was was a part of this film he was like throughout throughout the narrative. And yet you had a great interview with him. What did you learn about interact with alex that shows from making this film?

For one is that he's the exact same off cameras. He is on camera. Yeah, it's not an act. He told me that all real americans die before fifty eight.

He mentioned sean convery and a few others and all, is he getting up there? Yeah think early fifties. Um I just founded fascinating.

I mean, how how nice his studio is. Mean, the guy's got like an M S N B C level set up. I actually had a great time with them, you know.

I mean, it's bizarre because having him in that movie created so many problems for me. And when I interviewed him, I didn't betray him in the best light. We joke around a bit, but he wasn't an exchange hit.

I but I like to think that I was a bit critical of him in the film, especially the ways that he antagonized his supporters to storm the capital or to follow that trajectory. He told me when I met with him, he was like, I know you think that have me in this movie a good idea, but you're going to have some serious backlash because of that. At the time, I was like, man, it's fine.

You know, it's all good to hang out in whisky, doing bench Prices, drink a jameer and it's all good. IT was a first, though I had a campaign to get him in the film because the studios were like, we don't. There was a bizarre time around like I think IT was twenty eighteen, where deep platforming was the big thing that people were encouraging.

He said, giving a platform to problematic ideologies will in turn expand reach. And so even extending your platform to someone whose problematic is helping them A K destroying humanity whenever I was. So that was the whole thing. And when I did this media training that was, you know, Mandated by HBO, IT was all training. And how to defend from that exact question, they said when when we put you on N P R, we put you on CNN, they're going to ask you about platforming problematic ideologies.

And you're going to have to say stuff like sunlight is the best is in fact in I believe that extremism only goes away when you shine a light on IT because leaving you in the dark only allowed to grow. They gave me like fifteen points ers. Um I didn't use any.

Those pointless because i'm not the kind of person who wants to be immediate trained like to speak really. But in the promotional run for the film, you know, when I was on CNN, this was a crazy experience. So I went on CNN and my friend was with me. And so i'm on CNN and by the way.

your friend is chilling and sunglasses lying in the cash. That's very like it's A A mix of like the dude from bigby ski and uh the rapid role in the true romance yeah you know that reference now but I .

mean i'm sure IT describes Larry kind looks like.

yes yeah so so hp had a .

press tour set up for me and the main ones for CNN 和 N P。 R. And so they said we're going you're going to go on CNN on the don lemon morning show and he's going to ask you about your life, what LED up to the movie, what we can expect.

So I get in the studio. It's about seven o'clock in the morning in new york. I show the night before times square.

Some, like greg IDE, whatever they put the lab on me, boom, i'm alive on CNN sunday morning and he goes, how would you describe in ricara o's mental state in the leader to the capital insurrection? And i'm look at and like, is this guy serious? Like I am.

I sandwiching the january six hit piece right now, I thought was about me ah and so I told him it's not about enriching o, it's about how companies like fox, M S, M B C and even new station CNN use the twenty for our new cycle to enrage people, to generate ad revenue, pit americans against each other during times like that. And he said there's nothing fake about CNN I said I didn't say you were fake news. I'm not saying you're lying, but you're directly antagonizing in and stirling people up against taf the country because you need money during to support a dying platform you said that pretty much nice and great.

You know, I was so my mom was watching as you text me, just say, what are you doing and was that got to know? And so he goes, why do you extend the platform to aleta? And I go, I don't know.

I just wanted to drinks of James is in and lives and weights with them. You know i'm just at this point, I don't support that kind of media and support CNN. So you know I just I didn't give them much information about alex, but I was very awkward theyd never posted the segment online.

When I got off of that interview, I had a handler that eight four assign to me, so I had someone with me. And SHE, you tell SHE was fluster like he was furious about what I just did. And so SHE says, I just got an email from time Warner seased and I go, what's time Warner sea at? SHE says, I don't know if you know this, but the same people who who own the same people who own CNN on H, B, O.

And time more and so I cancel my press store. So my pretore was finished. You know, all the late night shows that I was supposed to go on.

I supposed to go on like the late night shows and that was off the table because they are worried. That was like a loose canon, I think. And the only remaining uh, appearance I had left with N P R in boston and that was supposed to be a premiere.

So I wasn't supposed to be an interrogation that wasn't supposed to be anything like that, supposed to be a premiere in front of a live audience where they watched film. And I show up after for A Q and a. So like whatever, it's kind of where only have this one press opportunity left.

I can felt bad that I ruin the entire press tour by confronting don lemon. But at this point, I wanted to just do this final one, especially because I was a viewing, and I was like, cool. I wanted, I SAT the audience.

I watched people laugh to the film. I was awesome. So I go back stage and there's A N P, R. Journalist waiting for me. And nothing.

He gets people who wear masks, but he had two and ninety five on, and i'm not two and ninety five years over the line. So I go, hey, great to meet you. SHE doesn't shake my hand and I go, why not? He goes, you've been around some people who I don't want .

their germs yeah oh.

and i'm like, okay, okay this weird thought. This is the sort of like fun premiere for my movie. We sit down.

The first thing he asked me is, how do you think the Sandy hook families would feel about you platforming one of the most despicable americans and history, alex James, in front of a live audience? N. P.

R. Never published this. The only recordings of IT are by a fan and rob in boston who put on youtube vertical phone footage. And I literally am like, well, the Sandy hook families lawyer, mark bankston, who represented them in court and connect cut, told me specifically that lendest poser, the father of no opposer who died Sandy hook, was a huge fan of the film.

And so I said that to her and that kind of just like silence that conversation, but the rest of the whole conversation was just about exploitation. And where are you platforming mentally ill people and giving a platform to conspiracies like q non, don't you feel like you're a part of their spread? Someone call you a misinformation reporter, all this crazy stuff. And yeah.

next day fuck all those people. That film, just in case you you're a chance to see you and you should. You're critical of our Jones in in the most artists way like IT was the correct way to be critical IT will IT showed him to uh be more interested in the grip of IT yeah and you didn't do IT in like a pointing fingers and like saying um in the kind of the P R way that you just mentioned is but more like a human way like this is tragedies happen all over the worlds. Grifters that role in and and take advantage interesting ways and human beings get swept up on either side of IT and it's revealing the human, the absurd of at all and he was done mastroeni IT was done that for people who criticize you for platforming Jones or whatever, the film from a political perspective is probably means very much left you, like heavily left. But does IT without that exhAusting energy of like judging just this kind of, you know, yeah two two masks kind of judging yeah and I was .

just when all that was happening, when I was underline e from the mainstream press for platforming electrons, I thought back to what he said to me and doesn't mean I agree with everything he says, but he told me you're going to be in trouble with these people if you put me in your in your video and know he wasn't too bad to trouble. But definitely I do think sometimes what the film would have been like without him and I think that he was worth IT because his scene is so funny to me, and IT brings me back to a different time in my life, and i'm happy that seems out there.

I think is really well done.

Is the layer .

of IT all the entertainment plus sort of not considering from this perspective the consequences of like growing people up in this way. That is not just I mean, you really highlight this in the interview like is he keeps saying infor wars, but then there's always kind of a sense that info works can turn to actual like civil war and yet but maybe not maybe it's all just circus like we play for each other.

If you look at the speech he did on january fifth, IT was, he said, tomorrow, you know, millions of patriotic americans will take our country back. Yes, so he asked people on. And then when he gets hot, he steps away.

Yeah, but like he said, the thing he told you, he turned out to be right. Oh yeah. And the frogs are becoming gay.

They've always been gay. Well, saying frogs are straight. That even crazy .

ever at stores. Will you kiss one and becomes a print? Ash is true twenty percent you think else believes what he says in turns the everything he says. I think for words like how much of what is real.

he's right about like big tech censorship. I think if he's right about anything, would probably be the heads of big tech colluding together across company lines to deep platform. Certain people is right.

I think most of the things that he says follow the question. Everything narrow and everything is kind of like a conspiracy, like a plot or a false flag. I think that he's built up a following for so long that wants him to do that, you know.

So I think he'll question things that he bright thinks are relatively straight forward because that's the stick of the show, mean the info war is fighting misinformation and people want to see him be that guy to a certain extent, if you're a creator who supports your family, you do follow economic incentives and people want you to be the character. And so you're going naturally gravitate toward being IT. Do you feel that pressure yourself? I did years ago.

Not anymore. I feel like now I can speak freely and really say what I want to say in my new life, but when I was Younger yet, like, I had to be this sort of awkward, sort of amicable, aloof guy who just didn't think anything about anything and just was here to listen. But now I feel more confident adding some narrative and voice over things like that.

So for some people, especially who are publish on youtube, the youtube algoma, they can become a to the youtube of them.

Yeah, I mean, for sure because I definitely feel that sometimes I know what works for me, but I I like to think that my audience appreciate when I tried new things. So i'm not totally in slave to IT mean.

I tried not to pay attention of views or any of that.

but you get some high views, so i'll report that for you.

So I wrote a great extension that hides all the views or anything I created.

So you took IT to that level .

yeah just cause is a drug man and i'm also a number guy meaning like you give me like if I do thirty pushes today tomorrow when I try to thirty five just like join yeah number go up like that's why like video games like R P S, like where you like improving your skills tree, you're like getting an extra point. And there are some aspect of youtube and other platforms, anything and any other platform you like who I get more today than I yesterday.

That's really, really dangerous to me because IT can influence how much I enjoy thing you like. If nobody gives IT about IT based on the numbers, you're like, oh, maybe that wasn't such a great experience. I thought I was a great experience.

but maybe he wasn't honest. Do actually feel that way sometimes that i'll put out something that I care about a lot but if if IT doesn't get as many views, i'm like IT must have not been as as good as my how are you videos? whatever?

Yeah, that's that's just like not true. Oh yeah and we might mean like a youtube that your threads like or whatever you however, I mean that's the the thing i'm battling against to make sure I ignore all that actually something your rogan has been extremely good at. He gives your shots, yes, and I think it's .

easier to do when he really successful.

He was doing that when he wasn't successful, really. But anything he just follows like the stuff he enjoys doing and they generally enjoys IT. He happens we really good at IT, but he gets good because he's doing the things he really enjoys and like fun and passionate about and that's why he he'll have like ridiculous guests .

and yeah and just .

like this shit he enjoys doing.

yeah, that's prety cool. Maybe one day try to do that. For now, i'm too attached to like the gratification of getting a million views in a day and stuff like that. I'm not gonna you and say that I be debt or something like.

well, it's a worthy enemy to be fighting because it's a drug and it's one that should be a resisted for creator because if I I feeling I can do negative stuff to your mind as a creator.

oh yeah, for sure.

Anybody that controls you is not good. A lot of people are controlled .

by their audience. They don't have to have a puppet master. On a corporate level, audience incentive is a different type of I don't want to say slavery but yeah .

that is that's why variety is good and you're doing that. You always expanding um well, let me just zoom out on this. You made a film. Yeah, that's prety cool.

Yeah IT was a great experience, man. I mean, that was awesome working with tim eric. Awesome working with john hill.

I feel the same about H, B, O and a twenty four, everybody that I worked on the film with. I have a lot of love for, and I appreciate the experience. My first movie is a big deal, like is a good one in my head.

It's like that I finally got to make the transition from youtube r to a filmmaker. And that was always this psychic barrier that I thought, like I had to jump over. You know.

there's A, I mean, just way shout the humor that goes throughout IT just a the narrow you're doing in like shady directors chair as really well done. Whose idea was that? I was actually tim eric idea.

There was a really great editor name play who works for absolutely. And they did all the editing pretty much in the office. And so is a great idea to add a retrospect cof directors chair near to work to the oiling.

Yeah, just like starting with the absurd fight and then going like that. That's the way is yet. Movie just really, really well done. What what about john the hill？

Like great guy, he .

believed in this.

He did.

So was that was that like what he think is behind him believing in such a wild project?

I think that john hill has a good idea. Like what's cool amongst Younger folks, like he's in the skateboarding stuff, is why he did that film mid d nineties. And I think he probably saw a similar thing, what was going on with the orgasm bricks and was like, shit, this could be, this could be big.

And so not only did he actually fund the film, he also gave me his agent. And I forgot to mention that that was johna hills lawyer that he gave me for free. That got me out of my contract, eventually doing things media, or freed me up to speak about what happened.

So he's also a part of you can gaining your freedom and weird way .

like even though him and I don't talk that much just because he's doing as something. Jonah hill is like a huge factor in my current success in just like everything that i've been able to accomplish just .

on your own politics is affair. To say that your politics leaned left.

i'm not really sure. Sometimes you know, I like to think that I am socially left, like I think people should be able to dress and act like however they want. I don't believe in restricting people social freedoms.

Um economics wise, IT doesn't seem like left this economic policy works very well on a city city funding level. Like if you see what's going on in california, seems like the the city leadership is always handling the funds in california too. So I don't know about that, but I don't know. I don't really see myself as left or right.

I just never have. Well, you just like objectives zoom out and don't have a sane standard of the extremes. IT feels like a lot of you .

work leans left. I tend to lean, lean toward like the empathetic perspective. But I do think is more on the left, on the right.

But also i'm not into like super like PC stuff. You know, I don't believe in limiting free speech either. I don't believe that I believe in a free internet, which I think is more embraced now by conservatives IT.

But he does seem that may be incorrect, me, but I gets a sense sometimes that y'll left attack their own very intensely. IT does happen.

but every community has terms of exile. I mean, look, imagine, take about what happens in the conservative ilm you like when black rifle coffee company like denounce the written house. They lost a lot of money too like it's not the right attack is too. I mean, think about bud lighting stuff .

like that.

I mean, you know, like every community has terms of extra. You just got to know who you're engaging with and you had to make that decision carefully.

I mean, nice if there's an actual right up of the things you are allowed to say for each thing. And yeah, I wonder whose this would be longer. I just just feel like the .

last is little if you are conservative and you have A T shirt but like a demo on IT like say goodbye you know me 对 you know there's certain stuff that they freak the hell .

out about um and conservative are really concerned about pedophiles yeah I mean I don't like pedophiles either。

But I don't think about IT all the time was one .

of the things you do in the film is kind of confront one of the cun on folks were his concern is that everybody's a pedophile and you show to call .

themselves a pile hunter and makes videos exposing democratic pedophile c balls and is himself I can convict a child minister. There's an old thing that people say that every confession, every accusation is is a confession to the same extent. So like it's it's bizarre that some people's hold life after a big mistake or revolve around trying to seem like the good guide instead of taking accountability for themselves.

Yeah it's a common thing you see all the time like neighbor od watch people, you know I mean, like what made you that? What did you do? You feel like you have to get carmike retribution by doing the reverse. I don't get .

yeah do you think to the degree of I that affects you journalism?

no. But I mean, with the migrant situation, I don't know what is that covering that?

Like I just got a lot.

lot of hate from conservatives for like letting the migrants tell their stories about their journey and stuff.

What what did you learn from she's going to the border.

I mean, just a sheer desperation that the citizens of the world, and I mean, there's people who truly believe that amErica is the only hope for their success and to feed their family. And I think a lot of them are kind of get .

catch fished.

meaning amErica has its problems too. IT has severe problems. There's extreme poverty here.

but they're in america. If you just compared other nations, the level of corruptions much lower to where the opportunity for a person to succeed to rise is as higher.

I wish success on everybody who comes here, but my thing is the expectation that they have in the serve american dream propaganda they've been installed with isn't necessarily reflection of contemporary american reality. So i'm talking to people who speak no english and say, i'm here for a Better life.

I go where going to go they say, I have no idea and i'm like, man, that's tough and you you almost think, how bad are things elsewhere for someone to abandon their family? Make this journey across multiple content. Ents end up here with no plan.

And IT just made me realize how shelter I am to a certain extent in america. And going walking back what I said a little bit, because I was just trying to make a point. But what I think i've has bad poverty like, let's say, west ball tomorrow or nine th ward neurons is nothing compared to what's going on in almost half of the world, if not more.

And so I just made me zoom a little bit. Sometimes you forget about third poverty when you live here for so long, and you get programmed to believe the worst things that are out there is like cannings in phillippa or tenderly cnf cy, isco. But those are just microcosms of more or less functioning cities, despite what they might lead you to believe.

Filled off. He is a great place. So as cisco but there's places where everywhere is really run down yeah .

like people focus on uh, in major cities in the states like home, somehow that's A A sign of a fAllen empire, right? But you know that that's a problem. There is definitely uh IT revealed some mismanagement .

of cities and for sure a result of the housing crisis, especially post code and all the gentrification that proceeded IT you know and it's unfortunate now to that the conservative media is saying, like look at biden amErica as if biden created homeless people and IT is disappointing because once again, you are seeing the media use real issues that should concern every U. S. Citizen and causing people to point fingers at a different political party as responsible for the suffering of others.

Do you think generous six can happen again?

Now all the lessons .

were learned.

Yeah, for sure. I mean, people got really screwed over them. I mean.

don't you have a sense that there's a greater and greater growing questioning of the electoral process and all this kind of stuff?

I think that americans overall are very comfortable with our standard of living. I think people like going to sonic and waiting in their car and getting milk shakes, and people like going to the AMC theaters, and they like going ice skating and mini golfing and going to the bar afterworld. I don't think that anyone wants to collapse of the basic structure of the country.

Even the most politically divided don't want to see seven, eleven go away. We are so comfortable. If you look at other countries, even europe, look at how they protest and look at the arab spring.

Those guys were talking like january sectors and they actually took control of the government. And so think about even if the mega crowd took over, the capital building is just a building. I I don't know. I just think that americans, they talk about civil war stuff, is just so were so far from that even if the rhetoric is as divided as IT wasn't twenty twenty IT won't happen again.

For IT to really happen, there has to be there has to be a level of desperation.

There has to be a level of economic desperation that's causing people to start or some basic, uh, going away water, something like that.

Who do you think wins trump or biden in the civil war?

Well, no.

In the guns game of mario cart. no. In the a election. Twenty four.

oh, man, I have no idea. Man, I don't even not .

to vote to weird that this is our choice.

I know I wish people were more focused on like city politics, like i'd rather vote like yes or no for a back lane in my neighborhood. I would for the president .

to local politics to is where is I think I mean.

you can your vote actually matter? You will say you have a community in five hundred people, and you live in henders in the vatican. You can influence whether or not there is a black lane, or this is going to be a playground, or, you know, an mpm.

You get to choose and you can influence one hundred people to choose in boom. This is your community. You can influence the result of .

election still that those at the presidential level IT sets the tone of the country. And um so trump running again and biden running again and just feels like this going to be a lot of questioning of election results.

I just can't believe those are guys. Yeah I mean, what is that really our guys like that's what are all these smart people we have in this country? The great history.

Yeah joke again. This is going game. Would you find joke? game? Well, is yellow joke?

Just, no, no, no, no. Joker gang is like a man. Amy, cuban guy, oh, is joke.

Or three or five rice chickle alive? So mean, I haven't following him for a long time on instagram because he's still like post videos himself, like pop in purchases and smoking blunts on the toilet freestyling. And so I would follow him for a while.

And then I finally got this platform and I said, oh my god, I bet you know that we have a million followers. Joke or gain will sit down with this. And low and behold, the cloud did its thing in. There was face to face with the men.

There was a controversy year ago where a woman came forward and said, the europe push you with her. You respected to know you got the consent, but you were pushing about IT. Looking back, can you tell the story of that?

What of the lessons you learn from IT? I an have you had to speak on this for a lot of reasons, mostly because it's just IT was a hard time and it's a sensitive subject and i've wanted to prioritize the reporting, but I think that now i'm a ready unable to do so. Everything sort of started on a december twenty twenty two.

And that was the release state of the H. B. O project. Like I told you, we didn't know when the movie was going to come out.

We weren't told that he was gonna come out on that date until early november. And so was like, oh my god, here we go. We had a movie coming out.

H. B. O, had, I don't even know, was going to be them. So every day for those fifty days to I received word into the movie announcement or to the movie release was like, I was like a kid waiting for Christmas morning, you know, I mean, I was like every day I just I saw the movie release state as the first day of the the rest of my life and I remember the week of the movie released IT was like, every day was all my god, six days, five days, four days and when I became two days like, I was so excited and so like honesty angs, I D ruled because I was such a massive platform that I went out to the desert t on myself, out in the mohawk, got a hotel and just kind of set there and then moving release day comes I was supposed to come out at eight pm pacific standard time I remember I was like twelve hours left, ten hours left, and then eight minutes before the movie at seven fifty two, or I guess I was sent at ten fifty to east coast time.

I got a text message requesting portion of my fat H B O check to contribute toward apparently years of therapy bills that this person had accrued after he says that he felt that I pressured her and to giving consent years prior. And I was confused, not only because of the timing, but because this is someone that hadn't seen in years. Or spoken to a year and I presume that I was on good terms with um so I didn't respond to the text message. And then when I didn't respond about seven days later, this person made some tiktok videos and with the help of some friends, launched an online campaign. They got picked up by the press prety quickly.

So what do you feel like when you got that text?

Well, it's tough because on one hand, i'm not opposed to restitution being part of a private accountability process for real abuse. You know, like if you've hurt someone to an extent that he took them out of work or something, like, I think they're entitled to some money blood. Unfortunately, as I later learned, this person had legal council, and this was an attempt to basically create evidence by extracting a confession for me to use as precedent for a civil lawsuit to the tune of a couple million dogs.

This dark.

yeah.

how did you meet this .

person when I met them? When I was tonto? And like, I told I was living in an rv, making the show on all gas snow breaks, and I would travel between cities like every other day.

And so I would basically pick a new city. And I gotten this like pretty bad habit of, what I would say is essentially treating instagram like a, like a dating APP. You know, I would go to a new place, i'd post my location, i'd serve the dms, and I would looked for like fans to meet up with.

If IT wasn't always girls, that was just people, a party with, because I was also party every night, but a lot of times ended up being girls and stuff and so that kind of how this situation was um I didn't have sex with this person um had a consensual encounter that they reached out to me about two weeks after saying, hey, I don't want you to take the strong way but looking back, I felt a lot more pressure to agree. Then I realized in the moment, I don't think this is any fault of years. I just think that you came on a bit too strong and I didn't want to let you down so I gave in and IT was that language made me feel horrible, mainly because if this person had told me, hey, I don't want to hook up, I would have said, yeah, of course not.

I don't want to hook up someone. And I think that as fame increased during that time, I think I was just kind of a oblivious to how people were seeing me, especially those who had a digital relationship with me, proud to me knowing them. And I don't think that I handled that the right way.

Thank you for taking accountability. But just to clarify yoga consent.

yeah, I was the initial party in an interaction with a fan who felt that he had to say yes because of i'm not sure why, I don't know why. But like I said, this person also disclosed to me they had a history of childhood rama and we're actively being treated for ptsd and that they felt things move too fast for them giving their situation.

And so I told her, I said, hey, if you want to reach out, if you want to talk on the phone, i'm always here for you. I'm sorry to hear that. Let me know if we can talk further. About six months after that, um I was at start to bike week and I remember this day this was the hardest st day.

I was just chilling and I got a text from my friend and you cancelled right now I I mean like that someone old tweet or somebody talking about and I opened my phone and there was this instagram story of me. He was like, the ugliest picture of me you can find IT was like my face open that was like screen shot um and I said, I remember this specifically because I just couldn't believe that. I said, the ugly loser who hosts all gas snow breaks is a piece of shit.

He knowingly abused my friend and got away with IT. If you follow him, i'm gonna message and ask you why. So this person who I don't know, I didn't even know where who the accusation was coming from.

They text, they emailed every production company that I was working with, dammed hundreds, if not thousands of people, like just saying, like I was this piece of shit, and I didn't even know who this person was. So I was frantically calling and texting, like every person that i'd seen intimately for the past year, and like, hey, we on good terms is everything. And then I figured out that the person was coming from florida, and I knew who I was.

And so thankfully, I reached out to the original person who I had a communication with, and I said, hey, like, I think this might have been you. This might have been your friend who posted this. Are we good? Like, I am sorry.

I apologize again. I was like, listen, I feel bad that you feel this way. I want to do anything that I can to help you again. I apologize and um SHE said, apology accepted.

I'm sorry my friend asked if I could, but he could post on my behalf and i'm sorry I was going through a lot mentally and I saw your fame increasing and so I agreed to let her speak on my behalf and we let we made demands in private. You know, I said, okay, i'm here for you. Let me know.

And he said, apologies enough. Thank you for taking the time to speak with me. And that was two years prior to this text message being sent to my phone eight minutes before the movie.

So naturally, I wanted to go on my platforms and talk. A bubble was happening, but but I also didn't want to mess up the roll out of the movie, you know. And so the the P R firm was like, we got this full handle this for you. And that was, I guess, by way of tmc thing that said, Andrew Kelly hand is devastated and not sure why they thought IT, that was going to make people be my favorite, but was just a picture of me on nbc that said Andrew Kelly hand devastated by allegations that that was their plan, I guess, to show that I was remorseful or something. You know.

how much of this they think lawyers kind of pushing this one money and fame involved?

Well, I wish I could say the layer, but I I just can't that was involved in this, but I will tell you that I try to lean away from resident and tour accountability completely. What was my role in situation? How can I never make someone feel like that again? What can I do? What changes can I make to make sure that, one, I never treat someone this way, and two, to never being that position again?

Well, again, thank you for taking accountability.

And the main reason I talk about that is because IT wasn't just that person. There was multiple people who made videos reporting similar behavior. And so it's obvious that that was a pattern of behavior of mine.

And so I made the apology video to announce that I was taking some time away because I just need a time away. I mean, my entire support system collapsed. My friends at the time disappeared.

I was getting like orbital arries texted to my phone that where I hay, it's been nice knowing you as IT was great to see you grow. Good luck. You know, like I was dead and yeah to get drop from my agency.

No one gave me tough love. No one called me to ask me if I was alright. IT was just only everyone disappeared in a week.

Again, thank you for taking accountability. But I just hate how many towers are out there. Like when people hit love points is when when you should hope when you stand with them, if you know them their character yeah.

And IT was just time. IT was hard to separate, like the initial situation that I knew was more less set up and the possible genuine other accounts. And so IT was like, alright, you know what, at this point in my life, I want to be on the right side of history.

I don't want to be the anti council culture mouth peace. I don't have the mental strength to fight this, especially because I was envisioning the HBO dropped to be this lake. The world opens up to me moment, and I was just the reverse.

But the IT wasn't so much the media reporting on IT that hurt me. IT was just little stuff, like A A childhood friend that you love seeing. They unfollowed on system, or just like seeing someone on the street that you grew up with, like waving at them and they don't, they don't drink them back.

And you're just like, my god, man, like, this is my new life, but what are you supposed to do? Thankfully, I like somehow, two weeks after I met an amazing partner, i'm still to this day, and I was able to conquer my two biggest fears, which is monogamy and dogs. I was terrified of dogs and terrified of having a girlfriend. Now I have a girlfriend who I love, and two dogs.

So were the mozilo point.

Well, right after this happened, I entered like a recovery programs, started with A A, but then I found a more specialized programme that dealt with the issues that I was dealing with, say, the harder point with them. Logically deducing that the lives of my loved ones would be Better off if I was gone. You know, I mean, and thinking that my, my, my mom and my friends that their life would be Better if I took myself out of the picture.

And for one, I just figured, you know, their friends cancelled. You know, her son is a disGrace. You, my family is gonna think they raise me wrong.

And my friends, i'm a social para. Now i'm a burden. I'm Better off dead. And the hard part was, you know, I would read stories in books written by parents who lost their kids to suicide, and they reported feeling a lot of anger after the suicide.

So I tried to think of what's the way I can do IT to get the least amount of anger on behalf of the people who aggrieve. Because hanging someone discover you. So I figured that drinking myself to death will be the way to do in.

And I wasn't able to. Yeah, I was just a dark place. You know, I remember hating the people who love me because.

I knew they agreed, and that made me bad. I makes sense that goes ready to go. I had no way to live. But their grief was like, I don't want to cause that. I don't want to hurt them.

So I was like, I hate to the people who love me because were stopped at me from taking my own life, you know. And it's where to think that like when I was going through that, if you walk by me in the street, i'll look like a Normal guy. And so now when I walk around and I see people, I think to myself, you have no idea what that person is going through. You know, like it's crazy that so many people are suffering in like complete silence and you can't they don't wear IT on them. You know many of .

the people you talk to, probably that many people you ve interviewed before all this, and after, I probably go into some shit.

and I I thought if I could write down what I just told you on a piece of paper. And I was to do IT. And then they found the note, they would take IT more seriously because they would .

know that I wasn't lying.

yes. But then, you know, if you do IT IT reduced the lifespan of your parents by fifteen years. So I looked at IT like I was taking time away from them.

Well, thank you for the most part. Leaning toys, accountability, sorry, pathetic. What advice would you give to Young men? They look up to you on how they can be good. Men is special regard to women.

If you have any kind of platform, you know whether IT doesn't have to be famous on instagram IT could be like if you're a pillar of your community in the coronary world whatever IT is um just be hyper aware of that and remember that you are inheriting a power dynamic that can create situations where there might be some pressure that you you don't even realize is there but it's definitely there and you just have to be aware of that and two um when when meeting new partners, having hook ups and stuff like that, just try to have a tromp a informed conversation about their past.

Really know the experiences in the back story of what a new partner has gone through in that world of intimacy, whatever are comfortable um you know to share obviously. But I would advise against one night stands, I would advise against hooking up with someone that you're meeting for the first time, have those conversations prior. Because even though I might sound like a vibe killer, it's not.

And if you think that that conversation is a vibe killer, you publish ouldn't be in that situation in the first place, especially now how hyper sexy zed things are and how common that type of violence you need to be able to have those conversations and stop and say, hey, tell me a little bit about your past. Is there any trigger to make you uncomfortable? Let me know how can be the best partner to you. And i'm sure that college age people are not having those conversations, but i'm sure that you will go a long way.

So especially when your Young coach, you have enough experienced, be able to read a person without having that conversation, because a lot of times you can see the trauma without explicit talking bottle that takes experience and knowledge. And cy in the world, when you are Young, you you really don't know shit. Making things a bit more explicit is probably Better .

yeah and also liked as men were trained to believe that it's our duty to be the initiatory party in any type of like sexual encounter like all like man chases woman, you know I mean like you know you have to be the one to make the move and or like she's playing hard to get if you know she's resistant to your first like compliment or something.

I think that that's not always how he has to be and that extra caution needs to be placed if you're taken the initiatory role in interaction, especially if someone has a traumatic background, they might agree to do something with you because they're scared and you might not realize that's what's going on. But because you you don't see yourself as a predatory person. You don't see yourself as someone who would ever consciously makes someone uncomfortable across a boundary.

But people have histories that you might not understand. And for me, as someone who doesn't have much honestly like childhood uma, anything like that, it's been an interesting year for me, working in therapy and elsewhere, understanding how that affects the mind. And also I understand hurt people, hurt people and that someone with a traumatic background isn't going to have sympathy for applying that traumatic pain to someone else, even if that person isn't the cause of what put them in.

Its about if we can go back to channel five, can tell the origin .

story that yeah i'm in channel five. We during the August no brakes days we used to tell people that we recalled channel five if we wanted them to stop integon ized us while we were filming as every town has a channel five.

So when people were like, what's this for? If they are being a super rude and like trying to get the Cameron be hello noxious, we would just say, or where channel five and they were, oh, my grandma is going to see that they leave us alone. So chantal five was a diversion tactic during all, gas snow bricks.

And just so happened that we were in beach one time and this kid came up like drinking liquor, like, you know, trying to yellow about, like whatever whatever they yellow about a miami like the and we're like, brother, is channel fire to be careful what you say and he was like for real and he just walked off. And I said to my friend of the time, like that sounded pretty good, right? The channel five.

And he goes that that sound pretty good. He gotta be trademark though. No.

it's not great.

mark. It's crazy, right? There's a channel five in every city. Channel five, K, T, L, A, L, seattle commons. Do chi file itself.

We own IT because because no .

one is thought of something that simple because you think you d have to specify we own channel five dot com. Channel five that new student. Well, IT, it's also. So he was the same .

kind of spirit as as the previous thing. Yes, what was the first one he did under the china five .

flag miami beach spring break?

I think i've seen that and can be a call back. I think I think the um I think somebody mentioning eating out there too.

that would be the place I believe that there's only about five places in the U. S. Where people yellow about eating us all the time. Urban street, south beach, miami six street, Austin broadway and nash fill and i'm just gonna ahead and say time square you might not think a bit .

time school really .

yeah you but time square I would say bill street in office but it's .

not not good oh yeah mean.

bill street is like the median age is too high on bill street for anyone to know about us.

This is a fascinating portrait, america, through that specific lens. So miami beach. And then the how you describe your style of interviewing. Just now you've collected so many, if you if had a style.

how would you describe this? I guess, before especially used to be like dead pen now I would describe me as more directed, but still relatively afford agreeable deadpan interview style yeah .

there are in the face of absurdity yeah you just like there were a microphone. There's a there's a comic aspect to IT and that's intentionally yeah I used to .

look at the camera like a gym from the office back in the day. Yes, I don't do anymore.

What about the everything I got? How do you think .

about the evening? I still do most of IT, but Susan helps that to with my associate. Yeah, the editing style, like I said, we pioneer this editing style that honestly was inspired a bit by like vick burger, but we took IT to real life crash homes kind of shopping up vocals a bit to add comments timing where IT didn't necessarily exist like you might add two seconds of awkward silence that a bit with room tone, or you might make everything really fast by cutting silence and switching frames, I mean, switching camera angles. But now we try to be pretty straightforward because we want to be taken more seriously.

you know yeah, sure. What's crash with .

a crash zoom is when the like, it's artificial zoom that you might add and adobe from here where the camera is zoom in on someone's face .

where the resolution is not there.

The resolution is not there unless you have a like a black magic cinema camera.

which I cona, and you also do a voice over storytelling.

I think the first time I really did that was in the same Francisco trace video because there is so much content about 3Frances co。 Homelessness, tenderloin shop lifting. But there's not that much context in those videos about the history of inferences.

Go the housing crisis, nib ism, random zoning stuff that sounds boring but has a major role in the current situation on the streets there as to why the tender line is neglected by police and by the city council and the other neighbor ods like nob hill and north beach are so nice. So I add to that purpose, sly of the center for disco video, and then also to the phillip hia. Streets video, to actuate the reporting and adam historical analysis.

What's your goal with some of these videos like dew of stress? One is IT to reveal the full spectrum of humanity, or is IT also to tell a story that's almost political?

Well, number one is always humanizing. That's the primary goal is to take people in circumstances where they're often news items and remind the public that these are people with lives and concerns and dreams, just like you. But secondly, we also want to start introducing more solution oriented journalism.

So not just, oh god, i'm becoming aware of how horrible this is, but what can you actually do to help? And as you can see with the vegas tunnels video of people are responding pretty positives to IT. Like here's how you can maybe help a homeless neighbor, help get them in I D, help them qualify for housing or get a job at the scrapyard.

There's always ways to help. But so much of the youtube world is over, saturated by, just like endless video of people suffering and the comments like, well, so horrible. But what does that really do for somebody? You have .

interviewed many rappers? Yes, as you keep me as a lot to IT, yeah. Can you explain this drill rap situation? what? What is drill solving situation?

Drill began in two thousand and ten. Some people say he was chief keep in chicago. I think he was king lui in chicago. But I think all of that was very influenced.

Walk a flock of flame, who dropped album of flock, two thousand and ten IT was like hyper violent, a general boosting rap music made by people who are actually in the streets. So in the nineties you had like you had fifty cent. You had a wrappers rapping about like whatever gangsta ship sellin crack and bean people up.

But they weren't actually doing IT. Drill has a true crime component to where drill fans want to know that the person wrapping about catching bodies doesn't, in fact, kill people. So drill is a, it's pretty horrifying.

IT sounds great, but I started in chicago and spread to england, and now its bounds back to new york, the broke and broker in specifically, and spread from new york to the rest of the country. So now there's probably a draw. Rapper, every ten square miles.

So these are as suppose of pretending to be against killing people. You you get some credibility by actually doing IT.

yes. And the fans are typically not in the communities. They're effective by poverty.

So that are kind like superheroes to White kids is dark can not just White kids but just anyone who is not in the hood. It's not not necessarily a race thing. There's White dw rappers to slim jesus was a big one. He's out of the picture now but there's there's White draw rappers.

Slim jesus, you made a video on all block. Yeah, what is? What is old block? The place, the culture, the people.

All block is a housing project in south chicago in the angle with area a, where Michelle ama grew up. H it's also where chief kef was born in a race. I don't know he was born there, but he was raised there.

And he is the the four father of modern drill music, as we know IT. So these, the projects where drill began saw of the first place where you have the intersection of drilling music and true crime. Because o block has a lot of rappers, and the nearby is an area called saint Lawrence, okay, two cavill, which has lot of rappers as well. And so these two rival drill gangs basically have a lot of history, and IT connects to music at large.

So you've interviewed people there. 哼， what was any concern for your safety?

No, I mean, I think that old block has calmed down a lot for one of a security so you can even really get in and out. But too, I think that all blocks trying to rebrand itself a lot because I could little dirt avoid a reo charge could be for a variety of reasons. I know you don't know exactly what that means, but little dirk, rabble, dirk is from affiliated with a block.

yes. And a lot of people have been murdered and retribution for killings. The little dirt mayor may not have influence the bordering of, but anyways.

little K A, uh documented the killings in in the via rap music .

probably okay, I know you don't know about drill and but little dirk was associated with the rain kingdon and kingdon perhaps paid for the assassination of fb g duck who got killed. Chicago s gold coast neighborhood possible the old block six are drill associated not rappers, but shooters, and they perhaps Operating on king bones behalf when he killed fd duck king von, with little dark's artist king von.

Now that so there's a definitely a concern that some of the fed charges will found on dirt. Not sure if that's true, but it's rumors in the hip hop community. So old block, right now, and when I film the video, is trying to go through a major invitation hab.

If you go on any instagram of anyone in all black theyve all converted to islam. And so they post pictures of themselves praying in the morning and have captions like, put the guns down, let's pray. So I think when I went there, they saw IT as a good opportunity to do a positive rebrand.

And so I interviewed rebrand boss top, who is there all the way back in twenty eleven when chief key was coming up. And so he basically ensured my safe protection, but he didn't even need you. They're all very friendly and they know exactly what's up with youtube stuff.

I like out twenty eleven is the old days like the ancient oh yeah, the founding fathers.

I was in great oh man.

time. Flies when you having fun. Little dirk, where is a little dirt now?

Lana.

so you love chicago? Not safe.

yeah. I mean, every press to leave their hometown.

What I did is a journey.

Yes, I want to taking me out. Well.

how's you? I mean, you do. And if you a lot of people, I mean, that's like a top comment. But IT speaks to the reality of the fact you always find somebody you're happy or you yeah, you create a space for people. Wrap said about I, there is really good.

You think so, but I appreciate help you, man. I mean, rabbis in their own way. Since I touched a microphone, rappers have gravitated toward me. I think there's something up.

a rapper, whisper.

I think there's something happening on a deeper cosme experience level ah that let the mind of rabbits know that, like they have a safe place in front of our camera crew.

Yeah, an interview would cook. Mac.

I do fruit. Mac, he is. Yeah.

is that a hashtag?

Yeah.

what that's intense interview be 是个 watching you go watch your all the universe。 But that one is pretty intense. thanks. I was a little afraid .

for your life. Cmax safest guy in the world, art finites. I feel like more safer IT back and doing. But any given in pedestrian.

yeah, he was loud and flavorful. Ful, yeah, I should say. So who see was this story?

Well, his name's travel. He grew up in ontario, california and the england. And per moved to texas with his mom.

After his dad left his mom, I started dating a cop from houston. Them mister gary. 嗯， his mom found mr.

Gary getting no anally penetrated by a co worker. And so ah SHE looked crm, a one way greyhound ticket to L. A, where he joined the cyp.

What's good story?

You know.

it's true. Yeah yeah, yeah. I'm just saying with, you know me is a classic case somebody without a father figure who found Carry and you know sense of belonging in purpose in the a street gang, which in L, A is like a rule of law in most of city.

Uh, we were, if you get what context really talking about martial arts and fighting and he's got to working as .

punching form yeah I think so. He gets into a lot of fight in jail zone. From what i've heard, he wins like he does. Half of them is what he go to jail for now, fire on possession of the probation violation. Oh, too bad.

alright. What the feeling? You want to the border OK py seat protest? You want ukraine? yeah. Now, what are some interesting things that stand out you for memory, just as I ask the question.

some interesting. I mean, I was in jail at the border for a while. That was horrible.

Was like first time.

Yeah, no, I didn't know that I couldn't hot my own border as an american. I'm thinking, this is my country I can get in any way that I want wrong. You can only enter the U. S. To an efficient porter mentally, which I learned the hard way, because I got arrested by border patrol and held as a detainee at a migrant center for a few days.

Was the that like horrible which just I mean.

well, for what like I don't know. I was just to be in a place like that and I try something like such a way right now because I know someone's watching this who's done some hard time. But we thought we were going to do at least six months in jail because the the guards freak us out and we're like you would be in charged with the federal crime.

You know, what you boys did is serious. We're waiting on word from santoni about whether that were going to extra dide you. So we're just sitting in these cells alone most of the time, in solitary with no pillows, just a sate pillows, no pillows no matter now, then just a space blanket. And I was sleeping on my shoes, stinking up the place that was no good.

I imagine a full convention. yeah. What are you learn for those guys? The ethologists.

I really want to know what you think about that. That's the one question that I want to reverse on you because you've talked to so many people. Do you think that aliens have actually visited IT earth? Yeah, when so when .

exact dates? I do. I think there's alien civilizations everywhere. I talked a lot of people that have doubts about IT.

I just think I even suspect there's a intelligent england civilization in our galaxy y, and I just can't imagine them not having visited us. So I lean on that what that actually looks like. I don't know the stuff we're seeing in terms of you of all sightings. I think that much more likely um to the degree real much more likely government projects. So military lucky Martin stuff.

So you think that they have knowledge of in yeah yeah one thing I think about the aliens is scale. So we have this idea that um uh an alien would be a grey alien, uh almost human oit look like that would visit us in form, arms, legs, head. But who's to say that they are not able to shrink down to microscopic size with the same neural capacity?

Yeah or just have a very difficult to perceive form.

But I mean that they would go small, not big.

Now I think that would take a human od like form just to be able to communicate with humans. I think the big chAllenge of alliance is to be able to find a common language. So if you come down on the planet and you suspect that they're some kind of complexity going on, but IT looks nothing like humans. You have to find a common language and I think aliens would try to take physical form that similar ah that dum he will understand.

Language is really interesting too. I have a series that i'm not announce for the first time on here, but i'm really interesting ted in endanger languages in the U. S.

There's like one hundred and fifty languages in the us. With less than a thousand speakers. wow.

And I want to like help spearhead efforts to preserve some of these. Like for example, hawaii sign language. Fifteen of us people left.

sure. Because when hawaii got enacted, the A S L. Community tried to make IT to the definitive. Hawaii wouldn't be able to speak their native uh, sign language.

And so they would do IT under the desks at like schools for the death and blind, and they would get like their mouth washed out, washed out with soap and stuff if they um so much as did the hawaii hand science, also the gulag t language in the south CarOlina to sea islands, Hilton head island and stuff that's like a some of the real language has been in the U. S. For hundreds of years, existing in isolation as being threatened by golf course developments. I don't know how how into language you are, but i've been been super nerd out about IT .

actually interviewing someone tomorrow who is an expert in human language. He is from my mt um studying the decent tax of a lot of languages, including in the amazon uh jungle, the the the people that live in the amazon jungle region. Human language is fascine.

And also the barriers that creates and also how the games are played to what you're speaking by governments. This is part of the story of russian ukraine is is a battle over language. Um the ukrainian language is a symbol of independence, just why they make they were trying to make IT the primary language of the nation. So sometimes the language represents the culture and the peoples es and intently tied to the culture of the people.

I've been trying to learn never.

which which language is dinner?

Spanish and english?

spanish? Well, see, I don't know. spanish. I, well, so that passes me.

You're fluent. This, oh, IT doesn't that? That was good.

That was real. Cancun spring break. Well, I actually .

speak fluent spanish court spotify, because there every episode translated overdub by A I in spanish. And there's a very spanish robot. Spanish robot is really, I saw like incredibly intelligent, intellectual, lds spanish and makes free man.

Exactly from everything you've done, all the people you've seen, you think most people are good underneath at all. yeah. So the ones that do all the extreme should, okay.

i'll put IT like this. Most people think they're doing the best thing for the world. I don't think anyone, except for maybe a small fraction of sociopaths, wake up every day and says, I have flux, somebody's life up today.

I think the farm majority of people are fighting for what they think is right and do want to see amErica succeed and want us to be in a happy place where no one is subjected. I just think people have drastically different ideas of what means will get us there. And unfortunately, that's leading to a lot of misunderstandings between cultures.

And yeah, I think that most people are good. I have been through some things that lead me to believe that a lot of people there are primarily motivated by self interest, and that in a fighter flight situation, most people will choose flight. So I don't know if people are courageous as a whole, but I think generally good. But the energy to stand up for what's right? Not sure about that.

They have the capacity though.

You have to do good. I think human beings are inherently selfish as well, but I don't think that you selfish is inherently bad. I think humans are primarily motivated by self interest, but generally have positive a intentions.

I do hope more humans rise to the occasion and have courage, courage of their convictions, courage of integrity. But yeah, I think that most people are good, and they want to do good and have the capacity to do a lot of good. That's why I hope for this whole thing. I going to, how do you heal them with understanding between people?

I think listening is the only option. We have no force education, no, like forced meetings are mediated between political opponents. Just listen to more people and really listen.

Try to get rid of whatever preconceived notions you might have about how you should feel about someone you are supposed to disagree with, and just keep your ears in your heart open to people that you don't know and your life will change. Keep your heart open. A lot of people are scared to listen.

Well, Andrew, i'm a big fan, and thank you for being one of the best listeners in the world, a man in showing the full spectrum of humanity to us the week, listen as well and learn and just thank you for doing everything you're doing. Hey.

thanks so much for having me on. You're a great man. Thank actually .

listening to the conversation with Andrew calgon support this podcast. Please check out our sponsors in the description. And now let me leave you some words from honors thomson.

The edge. There is no honest way to explain IT, because the only people who really know where IT is are the ones who have gone over. Thank you for listening and hold to see you next time.