How to find the humor in everyday life (with Jo Firestone)
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TED Audio Collective. You're listening to How to Be a Better Human. I'm your host, Chris Duffy. On today's episode, we're talking about comedy and humor. And personally, I rely very heavily on jokes and laughter to get through hard times. I rely on jokes and laughter to get through all times, but especially when things get stressful, when they're uncertain like they are right now.

I feel like we sometimes really need to puncture the seriousness and the stress with a good deep laugh. I am a big believer in that. I literally have a piece of paper taped up above my desk that says, "Laugh hard every day." I love that. I try so hard to seek that out for myself, and I also try really hard in my work to give that to other people. Now, at the same time, I often have doubts about the power or the necessity of comedy.

When there are so many huge problems in desperate need of being fixed, it feels kind of ridiculous to be like, what the world needs now are my little jokes. I am basically a hero. I don't think that that checks out. That's not how I feel. But based on the conversations that I've had with all of the incredible guests on this show, I do think that

It's striking that the best humans, they're able to do both. They work on the real problems. They don't ignore them. But they also are able to find ways to laugh and to connect with other people.

And our guest today is Jo Firestone. I think she is one of the absolute funniest comedians around, and she's so good at this. She not only makes me laugh, she also uses her comedy to connect people and to point out the ways that we could maybe be doing better. Jo is one of my first friends that I met when I started doing comedy professionally, and I am a huge fan of her work. Okay, so here's a great example of what Jo does so well.

In her TEDx talk, instead of just listing the ways that she thinks people could be better, she instead called her talk, everything is terrible. And she lists the ways that she personally is falling short and then asked the audience to respond when they related that they also fell short in that way. It is so funny and so perfect. Here's a clip. So maybe you've never broken a heart or maybe you've never gotten mad at traffic. Maybe you've done some of the following checklist. I'm going to ask, I'm going to show you this checklist and then I'm going to ask you to say check.

If you've done it after I read it. First one. Tasted cups like they're made of leaves. People on the subway. Not that customer service reps even know you're just mad at the product. You don't even need like kitchen appliances though. Making plans you know you're gonna cancel on. Being rude to your good friends and family because you know they aren't going anywhere. Or in family functions to check how many likes you got on a mediocre Beyonce. Ladies at Beyonce, hashtag Beyonce and me. Who said check? You're honest. Spending whole days watching Netflix. Decent for society.

your car even if it's an accident and toilet seat hovering. This is bad, bad behavior. Okay. Yes, I completely agree. That is bad, bad behavior. In just a moment, we're going to have Joe Firestone here and we're going to have a conversation all about the ways in which we are currently terrible, but could be slightly better in the future by using laughter and comedy. That is after this short break. So don't go anywhere. We will be right back.

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Hello, hello. I'm Malik. I'm Jamie. And this is World Gone Wrong, where we discuss the unprecedented times we're living through. Can your manager still schedule you for night shifts after that werewolf bit you? My ex-boyfriend was replaced by an alien body snatcher, but I think I like him better now. Who is this dude showing up in every episode?

Everyone's old pictures. My friend says the sewer alligators are reading maps now. When did the kudzu start making that humming sound? We are just your normal millennial roommates processing our feelings about a chaotic world in front of some microphones. World Gone Wrong, a new fiction podcast from Audacious Machine Creative, creators of Unwell, a Midwestern Gothic Mystery. Learn more at audaciousmachinecreative.com.

Find World Gone Wrong in all the regular places you find podcasts. I love you so much. I mean, you could like up the energy a little bit. You could up the energy. I actually don't take notes. That was good. I'm just kidding. You sounded great. So did you. And we are back. We're talking about comedy and humor on today's episode with Joe Firestone. Hi, I'm Joe Firestone. I'm a comedian. So you have a new comedy special coming out that's called Good Timing.

It's not just your comedy. It's also a class of senior citizens who you've been teaching comedy to. How did this come about? So I started teaching like a couple of weeks before the pandemic in person at the Greenwich House Senior Center. Then the pandemic hit and then we were told that the senior center was closed. And then we started up on Zoom. How did you decide to work with seniors in the first place?

So I've been teaching like comedy on and off for the last might be 15 years. I think I was getting really, really disillusioned with comedy like to 2019. Like I just thought it was so horrible and it brought out the worst in people and it turned everybody bitter and horrible. And yeah,

I was like, well, maybe if maybe by teaching a group of people that just want to like laugh and have fun and they're not like competing with each other and not like there isn't like that competition in there. It's just kind of a way to laugh and enjoy oneself. Maybe that'll be a way to enjoy comedy and to enjoy like use my skills in a way that won't make me feel weird. And so it was like it was like I was just like hoping for some hope and some laughs and

And then it became, as most things do, it became its own enterprise. I feel very connected with them and I think they feel really connected with each other. And it's kind of, it's just been nice to like, I don't know, have a designated time to like joke around and every week and just hear different perspectives than my own and just see how different people make jokes. It's just been very fun.

enlightening and refreshing. Yeah. Well, it's interesting to hear you say that you, this kind of all started because you were feeling really disillusioned with comedy and feeling like it led people to just be bitter and kind of just be looking for like the way to,

scheme into their next professional opportunity. Because you gave this satirical TED talk about how everyone is terrible and you were highlighting all the ways in which we're all not so great, right? Like spending days watching Netflix when you could be doing something decent for society. So I wonder, is there a way that like making fun of ourselves or just making jokes in general that help us to be better?

I think that life is really hard for everyone. And I think that it definitely helps to be able to make jokes. I think even if you're like, I see this person at work and I don't like them.

Just being able to make a joke about it feels so much better than saying, like, I don't like them. I don't like them. I don't like them. And it's I think there's I think comedy offers a release that is very important to Valve. You and I have obviously talked about this before of the idea of like, how do you keep the joy of doing this thing when it becomes something that you do for a living and it's professional? And I think that a lot of people have this. A lot of creative people have this issue where they're

You start doing something because you love it and you do it on the side and money's not involved and there's no pressure on it to like be your whole thing. It's just something that you really love doing. It brings you joy. And then you kind of get the dream, which is like, I wish I could only do this. And when you do that, then all of a sudden,

There become all these other responsibilities that come along with it. You have to make money. You have to figure out how you're going to, you know, grow and use it for your identity as well. I think a lot of people discover that that can be really hard and maybe it makes them like the thing that they started out with less. But one thing that I've always admired about your particular standup comedy is

is that you do a ton of crowd work and you do a ton of things that are unexpected where you don't know what's going to happen. So how do you trust that you're going to make something good or funny happen with an audience? It's turned bad multiple times. It's gone really, really bad. Okay, so maybe then the question is, so why do you do this kind of comedy? Like, what are you looking for? And how can other people find that too? I think, well, we've talked about this before, but I think the funniest thing to me is

the chaos. Absolutely. Yes. That is your word. That's the defining word of Joe Firestone comedy. So I come up with these prompts and like, I'm not teaching them standup comp. Like I don't even know how to do standup comedy. I'm basically just like teaching them to like say whatever. And then I think just kind of thinking on your feet and showing how you think is so funny, especially like if you're, if you hear what anyone's thinking, it's usually very, very funny, you know, if they're like very comfortable and like,

I came up with an activity that was so bad. The activity was to come up with a way to play your body like an instrument. It was so bad. And all of them on the Zoom were like,

Oh, OK. Like they were like, I mean, we'll try it. But it's so like, you know, like they were all doing like these kind of like and like kind of like just playing along and indulging me and indulging each other. And it was very stupid. OK, so so thinking about how a regular person who's not who doesn't already identify as a comedian, how can a regular person do?

incorporate more comedy into their lives or be funnier. It feels like you've hit kind of two of the big things already there, which one of them is showing your honest reactions to things, right? Saying what you actually think, because we are all so fascinated about like what another person actually says. But then the other is like just being willing to follow the thing that's happening. Well, I think a big part of, um,

I think a big part of comedy, and I really do believe this, and I'm saying this as somebody that presents as very uncomfortable, but I think a huge part of comedy is feeling comfortable. And so like feeling like the people, people are listening to you, people want to listen to you, and like what you say will be accepted. I think a big part of comedy is being comfortable with yourself and trying to get more comfortable with yourself as you grow. And then

Yeah, I think that like the confidence of just like saying what you really feel. I think that that is I mean, there's also like joke structure and all these things that you can learn that are like you could read a book about. But I think internally, the best thing you can do is be comfortable with yourself and your own thoughts. Yeah, it's interesting. I feel like sometimes people have this idea of like comedy as truth telling, right? Like comedians are truth tellers, which. Right.

I'm skeptical of because I spent a lot of time with comedians and a lot of what people are saying is not the truth. So I'm not sure that truth telling is really the center of comedy. But I do think that

honesty is the center of comedy, right? And there's a difference between honesty and truth, right? Like being honest about what you feel in your own opinion, I think is kind of the center of what makes things funny. And whether that's the truth, you know, you can be honestly wrong all the time. I am almost 100% of the time. But it seems like that's a piece of it. So, okay, so here's a piece that whenever people ask me about getting started in comedy, one of the big things that I always tell them is like, you probably already think

a ton of hilarious things every single day. And the difference between like you and a comedian is some of that structural stuff that you were talking about. Like, how do you actually like write a joke? But I bet you a lot more of it is how do you document and keep funny stuff? So like, what's your process when you have a funny thought or when you think of something or like there might be something here? How do you keep it?

This is, I'm really unorganized and bad at this, but I, like, I've heard other people have, like, binders and zip ties or whatever. Zip ties? Well, I don't think that's true. They have an idea, zip tied? Like, locked in, like, a little plastic handcuff? Yeah, they're handcuffed to their notebook. No, I think that, like,

I think if I'm like at my best behavior, I think I would try to write down the joke in full. And like usually it's like I write down the joke in full or I'll like say something out loud that somebody laughs at. And I'm like, oh, that's a joke. I mean, that part of my brain is broken because it's like you should really just have conversations with people. But like I like sometimes if I'm talking to somebody and.

Like they're laughing. I'm like, that's what it is. Okay. I guess I can say that to strangers. And then, yeah, then it kind of,

You say it at the first show and it goes well. And then you say that second show and it's like really bad and not funny at all. And you're like, what what happened? And then you're like, you just kind of keep saying it out loud at different shows and trying to figure out what exactly. Well, this is the big thing that I think a lot of people don't remember at the beginning is like you actually have to. It's like a process where you have to do it over and over again and it works and then it doesn't work and you have to just keep tweaking it until it does.

Yeah. Thinking about a regular person who's maybe not like actually going to go and perform at a standup show. Maybe that's not what they want out of comedy. If you just want to be funnier, how can people be funnier in their day to day lives? Well, so what I've like during like the dark, the darkest weeks of the pandemic. So I give assignments every week and they would do the assignments and come back. But like, so basically one week I was, I, I said like, just, just,

Look for one funny thing to happen. And so like if you just kind of like if you're like, OK, this whole week, Monday through Sunday, I just have to like see one funny thing that happens to me or to like around me.

And like if you kind of train yourself to just be like that, that's such a low level assignment. Right. You're just like I tripped over a sandwich. Just being conscious about like I'm going to look for the funny stuff. I'm going to look for things that make me laugh. Like for me, one thing that always makes me really laugh is like strange signs, signs that are weird and bizarre. And so.

I'm just because that makes me laugh and because I like to share them with people. Then I now like everywhere I go, I'm always paying attention. And so I will often be with someone who's like, how do you find this thing? And I'm like, well, we were walking together. I was just looking at every sign kind of like casually being like, is there a funny one? And then there is a funny one, right? Like I went to the airport and I'd met at the Burbank airport in Hollywood, which I'd never I'd never seen this at another airport. But there was a big sign outside that said, like, no jokes allowed.

And I'd never seen that at another airport. It really made me laugh. And I was there with a bunch of people and no one else saw the sign. And then when I pointed it out, they were like, that is bizarre. How did you even notice that? And I was like, oh, I guess I'm just always paying attention to that. So what kind of keeps you coming back to humor and comedy, given that it can be really difficult? I think if I was like left to my own devices, like if you put me in a cave,

and shut it with like a rock, I would be like, I think I would kind of

tend towards being very sad, right? Like I think probably give it within about 45 minutes. I'd be pretty sad. Yeah. That seems pretty normal considering you've just been shut in a cave with a large rock. Yeah. So let's like make it a nicer, it's like a nice cave. But I think that like, I think that in general, I found that it is a tool that I can use that makes me feel lighter, that it lightens my mood and it, it brightens my interactions and it,

I think that laughing with people and hearing other people laugh and it gives me more joy than anything. When I first moved to New York and was doing comedy professionally or trying to do comedy professionally for the first time, you were probably my first real like comedian friend. And so I've known you for a long time. And one thing that I think everyone who's performed with you over the years would say is.

is that your comedy in a way that's unique is you create a lot more events and more like silly opportunities for other comedians than just about anyone else. A lot of comedians, they don't have ideas that involve we need 60 people in a car wash, right? A lot of comedians are just like, how can I get myself on TV? And that's kind of the extent. Whereas you are like, you know, one time a legendary one is it was around the holidays. There was so much stress and you were like, everyone's stressed.

I need to create a show where there's a way for people to get rid of their stress. So you had a bunch of balloons that people could pop. You had pinatas. And then you asked me and someone else to wear helmets and you let children hit us with with wiffle ball pads to get out their stress. And so I think that like those moments where you're like, maybe I need to ask my friends to be beaten by children. I apologize for that.

It was a very long time. And I have to say the, the, the, the physical helmet did not really do what I was expecting it to at the end. I was like, Oh, I am.

I am loopy. I've been struck by a whiffleball bat over and over. But I think there's this, you know, you create these moments that are other than, you know, possibly causing a lifelong brain injury. I do think I do think you create these moments that let people connect in an unexpected way and are memorable. I think that's a big part of your comedy, right? Like it's like it's not just another boring day.

I don't know. I think that maybe just that that's what makes me laugh a lot. So it's not like, I don't know. I think just like the chaos of like you going into a room and getting, even that's making me laugh right now. It's just you being so down to be, to just like put on a helmet and go in there. And then you're being like chased around by children for it. It's pretty funny to me, but I know it's like, sometimes I really wish that I could like,

you know, sing and dance and like be like, you know, tell a joke like that. My, you know, grandparents would be like, that's a joke. Yeah. And not like, what is that? And so like, I think that that's something that I sometimes when I get down on myself, I'm like, oh, I wish I was just like I had talent. But I think that at other times it's like that sometimes

You just kind of that's going back to honesty. It's like, well, what do you honestly find funny? What do you get inspired by? And for me, chaos is my. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, definitely. I've always thought of like good natured, like kind chaos is definitely your is what I think of when I think of your comedy. We're going to take a short break. But when we come back, one of the senior citizens from Joe's comedy class is going to join us to talk about their new comedy special and what it is like to learn about jokes from Professor Joe Firestone.

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I want to tell you about a new podcast from NPR called Wild Card. You know, I am generally not the biggest fan of celebrity interview shows because they kind of feel packaged, like they've already told these stories a bunch of times before. But Wild Card is totally different because the conversation is decided by the celebrity picking a random card from a deck of conversation starters. And since even the host, Rachel Martin, doesn't know what they're going to

pick, the conversations feel alive and exciting and dangerous in a way because they're vulnerable and unpredictable. And it is so much more interesting than these stock answers that the celebrities tend to give on other shows. You get to hear things like Jack Antonov describe why boredom works or Jenny Slate on salad dressing or Issa Rae on the secret to creativity. It is a beautiful, interesting show, and I love it. Wildcard comes out every Thursday from NPR. You can listen wherever you get your podcasts.

Okay, and we are back. We're here with comedian Jo Firestone, whose new comedy special features her and a class of senior citizens that she has been teaching comedy to. So, Jo, I'm wondering, from teaching that class, what did you get out of it? What did you learn from them?

Well, I guess what I like, I learn a lot about like what gets them talking like that's been a really cool thing to learn, like just in terms of like activities and stuff, like what makes them excited to talk about. Like they have a lot of stories and like a lot of really strong memories. And they're also like have a lot of jokes about New York. They've lived in New York and they think about New York a lot and they think about the neighborhood and and.

So like that's always really fun to hear about. And like that also feels like another piece of what regular people can use for finding humor in themselves is like, what is it that you have really strong opinions about? And what is something that you know more about than anyone else? I don't know. I really respect everyone in this class. And like, I can't believe they still come back. I can't like I can't believe they're there every week. And I can't believe like they're still going and do the assignments and stuff. And I guess I just like.

learned a lot about their individual quirks and like how charming and lovable each of them is. And like, like a lot of them had not been outdoors of their apartment for so long. And the fact that they were like willing to like laugh and have a good time and willingly participate in a Zoom that nobody wants to be on Zoom anymore. And they're still going. And I think that's

It's really inspiring to just kind of like say like, oh, this person really wants to enjoy their life and make jokes. And like that's yeah, it makes you want to make jokes, too. Sometimes there's this concept that people sometimes talk about in comedy of punching down, right, like attacking people who are more vulnerable or making fun of marginalized groups or something like that.

sometimes people think that punching down is comedy. How do you make comedy that does the opposite, that punches up, that makes fun of people who are more powerful rather than less powerful? I don't know. I think what, um, I try to recommend people do and what I try to do myself is kind of base your comedy off of your personal experiences and like what you know to be true. And so like, yeah, we weren't trying to make fun of like anything that, um,

Was happening to anyone else, but just trying to say like, OK, well, here's a joke about the inside of my apartment. Yeah. Here's a joke about like what my body looks like now. What you know, these kinds of things where it's like this is yeah, this is what you know. Yeah. And I mean, obviously, comedy is subjective, but I personally am always like it's the funniest jokes are the ones where only you would be able to make that joke. That's my personal opinion.

Oh, you know, the other thing that's kind of like amazing about this group and like it's like a definitely a generation gap. If somebody says something that is offensive to somebody else, they just say like that offends me. And then the person who says it says, I'm sorry. And then they say, it's OK.

And then they just keep going. So what do you do? Like you've talked about how a lot of times comedy can be a great thing where when you're feeling down or you're feeling low, it can be a way of finding some some bright spots or kind of bringing yourself a little bit back out of it. What's something that made you laugh recently? Yeah, no, I mean, I think that, you know, I spend a lot of time at home now and I think the dog I have a dog who's been pretty quiet. Amazingly quiet. Yeah. Amazingly quiet. This is the longest I've ever heard your dog go without barking.

But, yes, he makes me laugh a lot. Like, I think it's, like, it's very helpful to have, like, either a really good show or, like, a book or a pet or a partner that, like, really makes you laugh a lot. And my partner makes me laugh a lot, too. But, yeah, the dog really just makes me laugh all the time. What's the last thing that Loaf did that made you laugh? Loaf is your dog. Yeah, he really is. He's really...

clumsy. And so he'll really, he'll walk into things a lot or fall down. He, he's too long to scratch himself. So he tries to scratch himself, but he can't. So then I kind of go in there, you know, he's pretty much classic dog. And so, you know, sometimes he'll,

I don't know, like he'll look at me while he's pooping and that really makes me laugh a lot. Like I'm like, why? Why do you need to look at me right now? But he'll like kind of turn so that he's like making eye contact with me while he does it. And I always think that's really a unique quality. Okay.

Okay, so now we're going to actually be joined by one of Joe's comedy students. This is a comedian who was featured in Joe's new special, Good Timing on Peacock. We have comedy star Barbara Bova joining us in this Zoom call. I think she's here. I just lost it. No, you're here. Come back. Oh, no, you're here. What? We hear you. We can hear you. Okay. But we can't see you. But you're muted, Barbara. You want to try talking, Barbara? Oh, okay.

Okay. And you're wearing headphones. It looks like, right? Yes. Thank you so much for doing this. We really appreciate having you on. Could I just say I had dental surgery. That's why I'm wearing it. Oh, okay. How did it go?

It went well, very well. Oh, good. You're feeling okay? Yes, thank you. So, Barbara, I wonder, can I just have you first just introduce yourself? Okay. My name is Barbara Boven. I'm recently retired from NYU School of Law.

I'm a volunteer. I work and I just had a service today with the Actors Temple Synagogue, which I enjoy very much. And I'm here at the invitation of Joe Firestone, which has taught us so much about comedy and gigs. Barbara, what did you learn about comedy from Joe? Timing. Why can't people tell good jokes? Timing.

And just had to look at various things in the room and just start saying things about it. And then jokes come from that. Just start describing things or naming things. I'd love to dive a little deeper into timing. What's the trick to timing that you've learned from Joe? Surprise them, I think. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, like with a punchline, the punchline very seriously or whatever. I like that. And I also feel like the the idea of describe finding anything and then describing it in your own unique way as a source of comedy is very true. And are you going to keep working on comedy in your future? Oh, yes. Thank you. Yeah. Learning so much. I don't want to stop. What's what's your favorite? What's the funniest thing that's happened in the class with Joe?

Some surprises we had on a show that we were doing, some various ways people came in and were on how they portrayed themselves in our comedy show. Can you give me an example? One guy was almost naked. You know, like that. Like that. Silly things. Definitely unexpected, for sure. How has taking a comedy class changed the way that you look at the world?

Oh, much kinder. Because when you see something, you think you don't like it, you make a joke about it, you laugh and you're happy and it's all good. What advice would you have for people who want to be funny, who are listening? Okay, I'm in a position to give advice. I don't know. It's get into a group and, you know, like when Joe gives, well, you have to give a sudden answer.

do that and you'll learn from that and come up with a gig, come up with a commercial. Joe kind of brings this stuff out in us. Like I wouldn't be thinking of, oh, let me respond to a word and maybe it'll be funny or let me look at an advertisement that's gone awry. No, but in the room, in the workshop where Joe works,

brings these things out in us that we wouldn't have gotten on our own. Barbara, you did the bumper sticker. Do you remember what you wrote for the, it was like we're coming up with new bumper stickers and you said one and everybody could not stop talking about it. Do you remember what it was? Was it look up from your phone? I don't know.

Yeah, that one, people wanted to make that one. It's a good motto now, yeah. Well, I would love to hear, can you share any other of your jokes with us? Any other personal favorites that you've come up with, Barbara? A new name for LaGuardia Airport, de Blasio. Or Cuomo, only departures, no arrivals. Okay. What's your favorite joke? Oh, I love my, the guy walks into a bar,

As a matter of fact, it was my friend, Sal Minella. He walked into a bar and the bartender said, please don't go near the food. Incredible. I love that. I love the bar, Joe. How did you meet Sal? I'm just kidding. Well, Barbara, one thing that Joe and I have been talking about in this interview before you got here was the way in which comedy can...

change the way that you look at the world. And do you find that in your own life? And how do you find how so? Yeah, I believe that's true. There's a lot of tragedy out there. It doesn't mean we have to listen to it 24 seven on TV. And also, yes, sometimes you do get sad over things legitimately, but you have to try to get back. It's not neutral, funny, because we could only our our goodness is all good.

So if we're not feeling good, we're not on par. We're not even with our true, our true inner self. In order to be with our true inner selves, we have to feel good because we are all good. So comedy helps you get this in a tough world. Have you found that taking the class has kind of helped like build a habit for you where now you look around the world and you notice funny things more than you used to?

Yes. Yes, I do. People on the street, cars. Like what kind of things? What are the things that you notice? Sometimes the way people interact with their dogs. I have a dog and walking on the street.

Sometimes they want to stop and sometimes they want to go and sometimes they smell all around. Yeah, interacting with other dog walkers. Joe was just telling us about how her dog has to make eye contact with her every time he poops. Well, my dog, when I'm walking her and she's ready to poop and I don't realize it right away, she says, Mommy, I have to stop now. Don't keep talking. Okay.

Oh, sorry. I have a, I have a question. How does she say that? Great question. Yeah. Like that. Okay. Okay. Okay. Barbara, my last thing is, um, so Joe is your teacher. She's your, she's your comedy teacher, but if we, um, flip the tables a little bit and now you were teaching Joe about comedy, what would be your, uh, your comedy note for Joe? If you were like, here's what I think you can do a little work on to, to be funny. Yeah. I didn't say anything.

I don't know what I could do with that. I'll tell you one thing that I might do, but it's not a good thing. I would probably be critical. And Joe is so accepting of everything and so loving of everything. So I would strive to be more like Joe.

But I'm not there yet. Well, perfect note to end on. Thank you so much, Joe Firestone. Thank you so much, Barbara Bova. And congratulations on your new comedy special. Good timing. Incredible. I can't wait to watch it. Thank you. Thanks, Chris.

That is it for today's episode. I am your host, Chris Duffy, and this has been How to Be a Better Human. Thank you so much to our guest, Joe Firestone, and her comedy student, Barbara Bova. Their new comedy special is called Good Timing, and it is available on Peacock.

On the TED side, this show is very seriously brought to you by Abhimanyu Das, who stays on his own side of the road. Daniela Balarezo, who never answers a knock at her door. Frederica Elizabeth Yosefov, who diligently avoids walking into a bar of any kind. Ann Powers, who likes her coffee the way she likes her coffee. And Cara Newman, who changes a light bulb the normal way. From PRX Productions, How to Be a Better Human is brought to you by Jocelyn Gonzalez, who asks herself, what's the deal with podcasts?

Pedro Rafael Rosado, who makes sure this thing is on. Is this thing on? Is this thing on? And Sandra Lopez-Monsalve, who will be here all week, folks. Try the shrimp cocktail. Thank you to you for listening. Share this episode with anyone who you like to laugh with or who makes you laugh or just you think would enjoy the episode. We will be back next week. Thanks so much for listening and supporting the show.

Support for the show comes from Brooks Running. I'm so excited because I have been a runner, gosh, my entire adult life. And for as long as I can remember, I have run with Brooks Running shoes. Now I'm running with a pair of Ghost 16s from Brooks.

incredibly lightweight shoes that have really soft cushioning. It feels just right when I'm hitting my running trail that's just out behind my house. You now can take your daily run in the Better Than Ever Go 16. You can visit brookscrunning.com to learn more. PR.