How to celebrate the ups —and downs— of family life(with Glen Henry)
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Welcome to How to Be a Better Human. I'm your host, Chris Duffy. I am really excited for today's guest. I'm always excited, but I'm particularly excited for today because I find this guy's work to be so inspiring. I'm always trying my hardest to push back on these ideas about what a guy is supposed to be, what a man is supposed to be. I just find them so regressive and they don't make sense to me.

And I love that today's guest, Glenn Henry, he's built this massive following online by undercutting those ideas. Glenn makes videos that show him joyfully, lovingly, and emotionally raising his kids.

He's on a mission to redefine fatherhood, and he uses humor and empathy to do it. And he's also just really cool. I don't know how else to say it. He's a cool guy. So in today's show, as you can imagine, we are obviously going to have lots of useful information for those of you who are currently parents. But if, like me, you're not currently a parent, it's just something that you would like to have down the road, we're going to be talking about how to redefine fatherhood.

Well, we've got lots for you, too. And if you have no interest in kids or no interest in being a parent whatsoever, don't worry. We also have something for you, too. I bet you didn't expect that. But Glenn has some behind the scenes looks at how he shoots his video and how he thinks about framing his work as a YouTube influencer. There's something for everybody here. To get started, here's a clip from Glenn's talk at TEDx Mid-Atlantic in 2017.

I asked a group of stay-at-home parents what's the hardest thing, the thing they underestimated most about being stay-at-home parents, and they said that the loneliness was one of those things. Not having someone else to talk to, feeling inadequate, feeling selfish for wanting me time. And nursery rhymes suck. Like really, Mary had a little lamb. It's cool the first couple times, but after all these years on repeat, you wonder why Mary just ain't making herself a wool skirt and have lamb chops. You know what I'm saying?

The one thing I underestimated most was the emotional fatigue. See, I was an artist, so I'd write songs for other artists because that's how I made money from home. But when you're with your kids all day, you become emotionally tired. And that means all your creativity comes from your emotions. So you're just tapped out. You're done. So you become done with time.

Nap time, timetables, time out, time, like to cook with all types of time, you're just done. You had no time for anything. And some people are done with their spouse as a stay-at-home parent because the spouse just doesn't get it. I was talking to a friend of mine. He said, man, I come home from work, the drawers are open, clothes hanging outside the drawers, the kids are still in their pajamas, and it can't be that hard to have dinner ready when I get home, right? Started to freak out, you know what I'm saying? Like, he was trying to confide in me. I...

I said, "You have no idea what you're talking about." She wakes up every morning tired from the night before, baby attached to her breast, dropping this kid off at school and taking this one to the park. Laundry piles up to the sky. She has a conversation on the phone for an hour with your mom about God knows what, takes the dog you wanted for a walk. And nobody died, bro. She kept your kids alive all day. That's hard. I have become an advocate for stay-at-home parents. Why?

Because finally, I was standing in their shoes, making it easier for the ones coming after us. It turns out parenting has a lot more to do with landscaping and learning more than teaching. And the best thing to do is to show up for class. Be present is what I learned as a stay-at-home dad. And let your presence be a gift. I love that so much. Your presence is a gift. And please continue giving us that gift, even as we take a quick ad break. We will be right back.

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Hello, hello. I'm Malik. I'm Jamie. And this is World Gone Wrong, where we discuss the unprecedented times we're living through. Can your manager still schedule you for night shifts after that werewolf bit you? My ex-boyfriend was replaced by an alien body snatcher, but I think I like him better now. Who is this dude showing up in every episode?

Everyone's old pictures. My friend says the sewer alligators are reading maths now. When did the kudzu start making that humming sound? We are just your normal millennial roommates processing our feelings about a chaotic world in front of some microphones. World Gone Wrong, a new fiction podcast from Audacious Machine Creative, creators of Unwell, a Midwestern Gothic Mystery. Learn more at audaciousmachinecreative.com.

Find World Gone Wrong in all the regular places you find podcasts. I love you so much. I mean, you could like up the energy a little bit. You could up the energy. I actually don't take notes. That was good. I'm just kidding. You sounded great. So did you. And we are back with Glenn Henry. Hey, what's going on, guys? My name is Glenn Henry. I am a creative visual storyteller that affirms fatherhood in the Black community.

So a lot has changed in the world since you gave your TEDx talk. And I'm wondering how how has that changed the way that you think about parenting stay at home or otherwise? You know, it really just kind of affirmed what I already knew because I am a stay at home dad. And it's it's such a different perspective. I.

have seen a lot of other people transition into kind of the space that I'm in and they can attest to things that I've already saying, I've already been saying. So it actually really affirms my current beliefs and, you know, how valuable I feel like present parenthood is. Being a parent is one of those things where it's like,

You're sowing seeds now to reap the benefit later, but you don't really see the light at the end of the tunnel sometimes when you're home and it's just dirty diaper after dirty diaper and dirty dishes and then cleaning and then cleaning up and then teaching the kids how to do the same things they're supposed to learn. It kind of becomes this like, man, I don't know whether I'm up or down or if I'm doing well or if I'm doing bad and you're using your level of success based on other people's children. Yeah.

comparing. And so it really just kind of affirms what I've already been saying is how important it is to be present in your children's life. I'm curious to hear a little bit more about that idea of success, because one of the things that I admire so much about you and your work is that

You are able to be extremely vulnerable, but you're also very funny and you're clearly very loving. And it's something that I can tell you've given a lot of thought to. So I wonder when you think about what being a good parent is, maybe even quote unquote good, what does that mean to you? Well, I think being a good father, I will really know if I'm a good father when my children are

tell me that later on in life. I think right now, my son will tell me, hey man, you're not spending enough time with me. But he doesn't know what it's like to grow up in a home where you see your father in the summer times. You know what I'm saying? Or you see your father every other weekend, or you don't see him at all. And so I feel like if we listen to our children right now at this young age, they only know up to their wisdom. And so I

I really think it's about doing the best you can, but it's also about apologizing. Like the best weapon that you can use in your parenthood is apologizing and changing behavior, trying to be better, you know, saying I'm sorry, because then you show that you can be humble, you know, and you make humble humans.

It's interesting because I feel like that idea is so different from what a lot of people think of as the importance of parenthood, right? Is like parenthood is about being the perfect role model and knowing it all and imparting wisdom and saying sorry and changing inherently means that like you're going to show your kids that you don't know it all and you're struggling with some stuff to the same way that they are. Yeah, like that whole thing is kind of the point, you know.

You can try to be the perfect role model. You can try to be this

perfect specimen of humanity and set the bar really high for your kids. But it's only going to make them feel like if they fail, they did something wrong. And when you fail, you're actually moving forward and it's okay to fail forward. You know, that is just super valuable. And I want my children to see me cry. I want them to see me struggle through a lot of the decisions I'm making. And the reason I make the videos I make is

is so that my children won't have to wonder when they're 30, when they're 32 and they have their first kid. And so right now I'm discovering that and I'm giving my children pretty much the playbook and say, hey man, I screwed up here. I did okay here. You can do better though, if you want. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. I mean, what you're saying is it's hitting me so deep in my core because I feel like one of the biggest struggles of growing up

growing up and becoming an adult for me, at least, is that sense of like, oh, I'm never going to know. Yeah, I think our parents did a really good job and then also like totally ruined us. And this is no disrespect to them, but they literally did as best they could. But when we were going through financial issues, I really wish that

I would have known that because I thought like by the time I was 20, I should like be on my way to buying a house. You know what I'm saying? Like the way we set up our children and the way like, it's like you keeping secrets from me doesn't help me. It actually makes me unprepared for the bumps that are coming in the road. So I need to know what we're struggling through. You know, I'm fascinated with fatherhood. I'm fascinated with family. It's something that's super big to me because I,

You don't really see it, especially in the black community. Right. Humility is a major key in parenthood for sure. Yeah. You know, I'm 34. I don't own a house and I don't have kids and I want those things. And I think that it's interesting because I was talking with my parents recently and just said to them, you know, like in the past couple of years that some of the most helpful things that they have said to me have not been solutions, but have instead been sharing their

the struggles that they went through in their own marriage, in their own mental health, in just like financial stuff, like hearing that they have had problems too. It's like they didn't have to have the answer. Just knowing that that happened has been really helpful to me as a person to hear that from my parents. Yeah, that's dope. That's really good on your parents for even giving you whatever they did give you. You know what I'm saying? Because a lot of parents don't really do that until they're

It's like, you really don't have time to listen. Yeah. You know? Yeah. And I'm someone who is not a parent, but wants to be a parent, is hoping to be a parent. Okay. And I know probably a lot of our listeners either are in that same position of thinking about kids, wanting kids, or maybe they're new parents. What advice would you give them? What are some of those lessons that you've learned that are the things against the grain? Well, I say apologizing, right? Children have an amazing capacity to,

to forgive, right? They will forgive you. They don't expect you to be perfect because they do all types of crap. They were curious and they made a decision. And sometimes I make a decision and I fail and it's okay to say, I'm sorry. And the kids are super forgiving. It really teaches in the longterm about forgiveness and reconciliation.

You know what I mean? And those two things are going to be super big for the future of humanity, right? So right now, we're going through a lot right now in our current state, which people are actually, you know, they're building cases. That's what I call it when you're trying to like...

eventually be right, you're building a case for why you're right now, right? And so we're going to have to forgive each other at some point. I would say apologizing and teaching and letting your children like forgive you and you asking for forgiveness for your child when you do something wrong. That is amazing. Okay. And now it is time for me to ask your forgiveness listeners, because we have to take a quick ad break and then we are going to be right back with more from Glenn Henry.

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I want to tell you about a new podcast from NPR called Wild Card. You know, I am generally not the biggest fan of celebrity interview shows because they kind of feel packaged like they've already told these stories a bunch of times before. But Wild Card is totally different because the conversation is decided by the celebrity picking a random card from a deck of conversation starters. And since even the host, Rachel Martin, doesn't know what they're going to pick.

The conversations feel alive and exciting and dangerous in a way because they're vulnerable and unpredictable. And it is so much more interesting than these stock answers that the celebrities tend to give on other shows. You get to hear things like Jack Antonov describe why boredom works or Jenny Slate on salad dressing or Issa Rae on the secret to creativity.

It is a beautiful, interesting show, and I love it. Wildcard comes out every Thursday from NPR. You can listen wherever you get your podcasts. And we are back with Glenn Henry. Let's hear another clip from Glenn's talk. This is Glenn telling the story of how he became a stay-at-home dad in the first place. See, we were spending about 40% of my income on childcare. We had one child, and we were pregnant with our second child. And we were trying to figure out how we were going to fix this whole thing, this money situation. And she said...

"Hey babe, I got a great idea." I said, "What's up?" She said, "I think you'd be a great stay-at-home dad." I was like, "Why would you say something like that?" She said, "Because babies like you." I was like, "No they don't." She was like, "No, they do like you, and I think it would be great for our children to see what love looks like coming from a father." I was like, "Okay."

So, I had issues with this because I haven't seen a lot of stay-at-home dads before and I thought men would judge me. So, get this. I said this. Please don't be offended. I said this. I said, you know, that sounds boring. And what do stay-at-home moms do all day anyway?

She smiled at me, a smile only a woman full of knowledge can smile, and said, "Well, since this should be easy for you, and it will save us some money, it seems like a no-brainer." Fast forward six months. I'd been a stay-at-home dad for about a week. I was standing in my bathroom, looking into the mirror, crying, tears running all down my face.

My one and a half year old was banging on the bathroom door because I locked him out, you know. Crying, tears running down his face. And my newborn was in the bassinet crying, tears running down his face. I looked at myself in the mirror and I said, which one of your friends can you call? I'm calling a bomb threat, man. We got to get out of here.

See, I had traded my manager for my children. I didn't know what I got myself into. I thought I knew everything about being a stay-at-home parent. In fact, I knew nothing at all. Because even though my manager was, well, at least my children were a lot cuter than my manager, they were just as demanding. Glenn, in your TEDx talk, you have some really hilarious stories about the mismatch between how easy you thought parenting was going to be and how difficult it actually was.

What would you say to folks who are listening right now? And right now, today is a complete parenting meltdown day for them. What do you say? Man, it's super hard. You know, you know, those days feel so heavy because like you have emotional exhaustion, right? You've been like physically tired and like, I don't know, you played sport, you did something, you just clunked out, right? And you have to, you just can't stay up.

Like having a child and there's crying all day, having another one and then having a spouse that and then having bills and then having a pandemic. Right. It weighs on you so heavy, but you can't go to sleep and rest because other people are relying on you for their survival. So, man, I understand. But I have to like what I would do in this situation is document everything.

Like document because other people are going through what you're going through, but they think they're alone.

So if you can find the courage to turn on your phone or turn on your camera and make the most out of the situation by laughing or just documenting what's happening, other people will be able to lend a kind word. Um, they may be able to, you know, buy you some groceries. Like you just never know how many people want to help, but we don't know because we don't, we don't expose ourselves and let people know that. So, um,

Man, it's super difficult. And just to say I was a fool.

when I thought it was easy. You know, everything is about perspective. I think it's also such a powerful idea to when you're in those moments where it feels like things are closing in and you're all alone to then like turn outward and just share what's happening with people around you. It's difficult, but it's like so worth it. You know, like right now, like as we're sitting here, I'm watching my son, my oldest son, hold hands with my youngest son, walking him around. And then he asked to get picked up. Now,

My son is learning fatherhood messages because I was present at his age. You know what I'm saying? With him as a baby. And so he knows that like, I'm the big brother. I'm the oldest kid in the house. I got to help, you know? So he picks up his little brother. He takes care and we're building legacy here. So it's worth it. It's interesting to hear you talk about legacy and, you know, the messages that you're sending. Cause I know from,

reading some of your writing and from what you've talked about in videos that one of the big reasons why your work is important to you is combating some of these toxic ideas that are in the culture around Black fatherhood. Yeah. Could you just talk a little bit about why that's important to you and how you go about doing that? You know, my dad had joint custody, right? So I would be with him in the summertime and I'd be with my mom throughout the school year. There wasn't a whole lot of

And families that, you know, like traditional families would be mom, dad, and then the kids. There was like a single mom and then, you know, two kids, three kids, a grandma, an auntie. You know what I'm saying? Like it was like, you know, a single dad. Like it wasn't a lot of family, right? Traditionally. And so, yeah.

Growing up, I didn't want to be a dad. I was like, I had like a little bit like, man, I want that. And they're just like, I don't see this enough. So it's like, I don't want to be a dad. You know, when one of my friends would get pregnant, you know, or get their girlfriends pregnant, it was kind of like a death sentence. We were just kind of like, oh, man, so sorry to hear that. Like, man, you screwed. Your life is over. You know what I mean? It wasn't until I saw a father.

have like six kids and him to actually be enjoying his life and have structure. He didn't do it perfect, but he did it enough to be like, oh, it's possible. And so I realized the power of proof.

And that is the biggest thing that you can ever do, right? Is show me how you do it. And so basically all I'm doing is being proof. I'm not being the example. You don't have to do it like I do it. You can do it however you want to do it because I am proof for you. We exist to be proof for other people.

Like you can't tell me my life is a lie. You can't tell me black fathers don't exist. When I first went viral, people told me, oh, he'll leave his kids in a week, you know, inward monkey, all this stuff, all these negative things. But I just realized that these people are,

they don't have any proof. You know what I'm saying? And so not only am I going to prove them wrong, but I'm going to inspire other people so that we all prove them wrong, you know? And that's just kind of the power of having influence nowadays. Yeah, I think that's so beautiful and important, right? The idea of living your life as proof and as an example that other people can latch onto. Just as an individual on an emotional level, how do you find like the strength or the self-esteem

when so much of culture, and I say this about fatherhood in general, but I'm sure it applies just as much to black fatherhood, is doesn't really give pride in being a dad. - This work is very difficult, but it's very rewarding, but it's not a lot of us out here. So if I say no to an opportunity, then I'm letting the community down. You know what I'm saying? And so there's a balance within me that is completely off. And so I gotta work on that for sure.

Right now, we ourselves, right? Like people like you and I, right? I'm 35, you're 34. We are going to have so many mentees. You know what I'm saying? Like they're going to be so many people because right now we're speaking from a place of like,

I don't have any guidance. I need guidance. I wish somebody would have did this for me. And so we won't be able to move forward years from now without guiding someone else along, you know. Just a couple of things that you've already talked about that I want to hear more about. You talked about how you let your kids kind of tell you how you're doing as a parent. Oh, yeah. Do you have any examples of times where your kids have really shown you like this is what you're doing well or this is a place where you need to improve? You know, it's always about time with my oldest kids.

My other two are kind of like, yo, just let me watch TV. Let me stay up late. Let us have candy and snacks when we want. You know what I'm saying? I'm kind of like, no. I'm actually being an enabler, you know what I mean, if I do that. But my oldest kid is paying attention to my mood. He can sense. I don't know if you can hear them playing right now, but that's them. He can sense when I'm irritated. He can sense when I'm upset, when I'm angry. So he'll come in the room and be like, never mind. You know what I'm saying? And so...

It's accountability. And as much as annoying as that is and uncomfortable it is, like I need that. Like I need that accountability. Do you think that that that level of your kids being able to kind of give you feedback on your own availability and also your own emotional availability? Is that really different from the way that you felt comfortable communicating with your own parents or your own family? What? I wasn't allowed to say nothing. I didn't have it. I wasn't allowed to have an opinion. Children should be seen and not heard.

You know what I mean? Like, do what I say, not what I do. Like, you know, a lot of these like one liners that's kind of like, well, when does that end? You know what I'm saying? Because I'm grown now. So but really what that does is to me would have communicated was like.

Well, I don't necessarily have a voice here, so I'm not going to communicate at all. But I will communicate to friends and cousins and teachers and places where I do have a voice. But giving your child a voice in a space to speak is super important. And it's not how I grew up. And I don't I don't doubt my parents either, because you think about it.

I mean, this is the reality of having kids. - Yeah. I'm trying to figure out what they're screaming about. So, you know, not having that space was just kind of like me saying, all right, I really don't have, you know, any, like not even my own life I could talk about. You know what I mean? Like it wasn't any of my business. Now,

I understand that my parents, they did the best that they could because they're like a single parent. My mom was she had two boys. She had a full time job. You know what I'm saying? But it wasn't a lot of communication between her and I because it only went one way, you know. So thinking more about that communication, obviously, there's a lot of really tough things going on. There's things that are right now really tough for adults to talk about with other adults.

So given the economic and political realities of the world right now, how do you have these difficult talks with your kids? How do you think about actually like opening up those big topics, whether it's things like a pandemic or job loss or racial injustice or violence in the world? How do you broach those conversations? We talk about it. We just kind of communicate what it is. We have...

like the virus they call it the boring virus because we don't get to go outside you know we talk about uh racial inequality you know after George Floyd was murdered we had a conversation about what might be an issue being black in America and we had that conversation early you know six and seven our children were uh and it was very uncomfortable but it's like you don't know when that conversation is coming on the other side you know you don't know when someone's gonna

point them out or accuse them of being of doing something because they're black uh so you have to get ahead of it you know i was introduced to racism before my mom told me you know um and she had just kind of had to communicate with me like hey like this is just what it is you know what i mean and so everybody who says they're your friend and not your friend some people actually they're taught to hate you and they don't know any better you know and so there's this like weird thing about being black where it's like

I could be as black as I want, but I'm still going to have to educate people on how to treat me, you know, which is really frustrating because, you know, like certain things that my friends can get away with. I can't, you know what I'm saying? And I got to know that. And I teach my kids that, too.

So we just have the conversations regularly. My two oldest, we have the conversation when I think five is a good age to kind of start to kind of talk about that, you know, because without even knowing it, like, you know, at four, my child was like, yo, I want to be light like my like my friend, like this friend. And I don't like my skin and I don't like my hair. You know what I'm saying? So it's like we got to teach them.

to love themselves because what we allow them to watch, whether it be Marvel or, you know, whatever cartoon predominantly all the characters are white, you know what I'm saying? And so they begin to favor like this complexion, this style, this attitude, you know, that's not their own, you know what I mean? So it'd be like that. But what I want to be the truth and what I want to happen with my children may not be what I'm displaying, you know? And so, you know,

It's just learning. Parenting is learning. Along those lines, how do you think that being a parent has made you a better human in the other realms of your life? Maybe as a partner or professionally or in other ways? Oh, it's gave me a lot of accountability. I thought that being a patient father was all I had to be until I realized that my patience was limited because

based on the role I was presented or who I was around. And so I'd rather be a patient person, not a patient father. And so it challenged me outside of, you know, just being a father, you know what I mean? Or kind. And these things like seem like, oh yeah, you should be kind. But you know, we're kinder to people we respect. We're kinder to people we love. We're kinder to people who are more attractive. Like that's just what we do as human nature. And it's kind of just challenged me to know that like, you can't just be

a kind dad like that's the bare minimum duh anybody can be nice to a baby you know what i'm saying like challenge yourself and be a kind human be a kind pedestrian be a kind brother be you know so it's really just kind of got me thinking that like you know anybody can look good to their kids you know what i'm saying you've got to step out and try to be better for humanity and you

You know, something I'm working on. Yeah. It's also just this is basically a cliche because it's so true. But the kids are such sponges and they pick up on so much. And if you ask and this is also a fun thing that I did all the time as a teacher. But if you ask like kids to like do an impression of you, man, do they like catch the things where you're like, you notice that? I can't believe you notice that, you know, and whether it's like that.

The like, hold on, I'm on the phone. And you're like, oh, I guess I do that a lot. I got to be careful to make sure that I like I'm spending more time with you and I'm not on my phone. Yeah, whatever it is, they catch those little things. And I think that by being open to seeing that it can be a real chance for personal growth as well, it seems like.

You know, it's crazy. I've never done that before. So I can't wait to do that because I'm... Oh, that's a video for you. Listen, I'm not even going to take a cut. You get that one for free. That's payment for being on the podcast. Look at you. I love it, man. That's a great idea. I'm going to try it out for sure. We ask these last two questions to everyone. All right. What is one idea or book or piece of music or what's one thing that has made you a better human? Idea, book...

piece of music, album, movie, TV show, anything. Okay. So it's a scripture. It's Galatians 6, 9. And it says, let us not be weary in doing good work for eventually we will reap a harvest if we do not give up. It's all about working and don't get tired. Just if you're doing good work, like just keep going and eventually it'll work out. And that's eventually what happened with the YouTube channel. I started it. Like I want to

tell people how great it is to be a father. And the plan was that in 15 years, I would be able to write books and speak at a TED conference.

Two years later, it happened. You know what I'm saying? And so I had the vision for 15 years and it happened two years later because I was consistent and I didn't give up. So that's the scripture, Galatians 6, 9. I love that. And last question, what is one way in which you personally are trying to be a better human right now? I am in therapy. That is the one way I'm trying to be a better human. I am held accountable to my thoughts. I am focused on healing.

recognizing and dealing with the traumas of my past, being present for my children now, my wife now, and also providing for my future. And therapy is the only way I'm going to get there. So I'm very grateful. Glenn Henry, thank you so much. This has been a pleasure and an inspiration. And I admire the work that you're doing and the person you are. And I'm so glad we got to have you. Thank you so much. I appreciate it. I'm so glad to be a part of this and I'm excited for you guys. Can't wait to promote this.

That is our episode for today. This has been How to Be a Better Human. I'm your host, Chris Duffy. Thank you so much to our guest, Glenn Henry. You can find him online and watch his fantastic videos at beliefinfatherhood.com. That is B-E-L-E-A-F, in fatherhood.com. Leaf as in a leaf on a tree.

And as always, our podcast is produced by Abimanyu Das, Daniela Bolorezo, Frederica Elizabeth Yosefov, and Cara Newman of TED, and Jocelyn Gonzalez and Sandra Lopez-Monsalve from PRX Productions.

Support for the show comes from Brooks Running. I'm so excited because I have been a runner, gosh, my entire adult life. And for as long as I can remember, I have run with Brooks Running shoes. Now I'm running with a pair of Ghost 16s from Brooks.

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