cover of episode #388 — What Is Life?

#388 — What Is Life?

2024/10/21
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Making Sense with Sam Harris

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Sarah Walker: 本人受过物理学训练,致力于从物理学的角度理解生命的本质,特别关注生命起源和地外生命探测。研究中,我努力避免物理学背景的偏见,但同时又充分利用理论物理学的严谨性。我更倾向于将自己定义为理论物理学家,虽然我的研究也涉及天体生物学。我研究的重点是生命,这与薛定谔的《生命是什么?》一书中的问题密切相关。薛定谔的贡献在于他基于当时的物理学发现,以一种逻辑的方式思考如何推断生命的根本性质,特别是关于遗传的本质,他预言了非周期性晶体(类似DNA)的存在,并指出可能需要尚未建立的物理定律来解释生命。现有的生命定义(例如“能够达尔文进化论的自持化学系统”)存在缺陷,因为其各个组成部分在应用中都存在问题,例如进化作用于群体而非个体,病毒的生存状态难以界定,以及骡子或蜜蜂群体的繁殖问题。“人工生命”这个词语更像是一个挑战,它促使我们去深入理解生命,以便能够在机器中实现生命或识别出我们已经实现了生命。我们对生命的根本理解不足,因此难以区分生命和非生命。我认为“湿”和“干”的区分是狭隘的,应该忽略。对生命的定义应该与底物无关。如果我们创造出具有不同化学成分的细胞生命形式,它可能被认为是生物生命,但与地球生命和计算机程序相比,它与地球生命的关联性可能更强,因为信息之间存在直接联系。信息是现实的物理特征,生命与非生命的界限可能更倾向于信息而非物理或化学。在生命系统中,信息必须扮演因果角色,才能构建进化对象。组装理论和构造理论都关注于理解复杂系统的构建过程,但侧重点不同。构造理论关注于能够被导致发生的“任务”,而组装理论则关注于复杂对象的构建过程及其历史依赖性。组装理论旨在解决生命起源问题,它认为复杂对象并非自发产生,而是需要通过构建过程和信息来构建。组装理论认为,单个物体无法独立存在,需要考虑其构成部件和构建历史。复杂对象的出现需要多次复制和可靠的构建过程,这体现了进化过程中的因果关系和信息传递。达尔文主义原则强调复制的重要性,这与组装理论中关于复杂对象需要多次复制才能存在的观点相符。无限宇宙或多重宇宙的观点并不意味着复杂对象可以自发产生,因为即使在无限空间中,构建复杂对象也需要时间和因果关系的约束。我认为“块状宇宙”的观点是一种对物理理论的哲学解读,它与组装理论的观点有所不同。组装理论认为宇宙本身就是一个构建过程,而我们的物理理论也是这个过程的一部分。想象中的反事实陈述是我们在时空维度上进行的物理操作,它似乎具有因果关系。这引出了形而上学的问题:存在意味着什么?什么是客体?物理定律如何存在并产生因果作用?我认为数学对象是物理对象,它们是更大、更长久因果结构的一部分,由于我们有限的感知能力,它们看起来很抽象。无限多个素数的存在性问题,即使我们无法穷举所有素数,但它们的存在性仍然是可知的。 Sam Harris: 与Sarah Walker讨论了对生命的科学理解,涵盖了物理学、信息、构造理论、组装理论、宇宙学等多个方面,并探讨了人工生命、费米悖论、大过滤器等问题。

Deep Dive

Key Insights

What was Erwin Schrödinger's contribution to the understanding of life?

Schrödinger's major contribution was to think about the nature of genetic heredity and propose the idea of an aperiodic crystal, which could encode a lot of information. This concept was influential in the discovery of DNA as the genetic material.

What is the current best definition of life, and what are its limitations?

The common definition in astrobiology is that life is a self-sustaining chemical system capable of Darwinian evolution. However, this definition has limitations, such as the question of whether individuals or groups (like bee colonies) are alive, and whether viruses or mules fit the criteria.

How does Sara Imari Walker view the concept of artificial life?

Walker sees the phrase 'artificial life' as a challenge to understand life well enough to instantiate it in machines. She argues that the distinction between biological and non-biological life is provincial and that a proper definition of life should be substrate-agnostic.

What role does information play in the boundary between life and non-life according to Walker?

Walker believes that information is a physical feature of reality and that the boundary between life and non-life is where information must take on a causal role. She argues that living systems require information storage and processing to exist.

What is assembly theory, and how does it relate to constructor theory?

Assembly theory focuses on the origin of life by proposing that complex objects require a history of construction and cannot spontaneously form. It is related to constructor theory, which focuses on what is possible or impossible in the universe based on constructors, but assembly theory specifically addresses the evolutionary process of constructing complex objects.

Why does Walker argue that single objects cannot exist in isolation in assembly theory?

Walker argues that single objects cannot exist in isolation because complex objects require a history of construction from existing parts. The theory posits that objects with high assembly indices need to be constructed over time using reliable processes, which necessitates multiple instances of parts.

How does Walker view the concept of a block universe in physics?

Walker sees the block universe as a philosophical interpretation of physics rather than a definitive description of reality. She believes that living inside reality, rather than viewing it from a God's-eye perspective, leads to a different understanding of how laws of physics and time operate.

How does Walker view the existence of abstract objects like numbers?

Walker views abstract objects like numbers as physical structures that are deeply tied to information. She believes that mathematical objects are part of a larger causal structure that we are embedded in, and their existence is tied to the history of their construction.

Shownotes Transcript

Sam Harris speaks with Sara Imari Walker about a scientific understanding of life. They discuss the contributions of physics to this topic, Erwin Schrödinger, the inadequacy of standard definitions of life, the prospect of "artificial" life, the role of information, constructor theory, assembly theory, the space of all possible structures, a "block universe," the existence of abstract objects like numbers, the Fermi paradox, the likelihood of life elsewhere in the universe, experiments that decide how likely life is to emerge, the possibility of a Great Filter, the number of Earth-like worlds, and other topics. If the Making Sense podcast logo in your player is BLACK, you can SUBSCRIBE to gain access to all full-length episodes at samharris.org/subscribe). Learning how to train your mind is the single greatest investment you can make in life. That’s why Sam Harris created the Waking Up) app. From rational mindfulness practice to lessons on some of life’s most important topics, join Sam as he demystifies the practice of meditation and explores the theory behind it.