Die, Workwear: "This is how to look better in your 20s and 30s"
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if you're young man in your twice and thirties and you want to be more confident this episode is for you and it's going to be little strange if you saw this headcase topes ode is with i work where is the user name of a person who's gone incredibly viral and twitter he has over a million followers any talks about men's fashion i saw this guy pop up last year and i kind of change my life because he taught me about dress and how dressing a certain way IT gives a huge amount of confidence in the problem is that you don't try to dress nice because you don't really know the rules and so i thought to be fun to talk to derek about his eyes so how we got huge and built the business but also some practical tips on how to dress better and what that means for your life and what that means for your confidence so give this episode to.

listen and i think a little IT.

I think the reason why your blowing up right now, i'll give you my opinion and maybe you can give me your opinion, but I care how I look, and i've always cared about that, but I never really knew the rules. And basically, when you don't know the rules of somebody, you feel not confident and you kind of just revert back to like, well, I just to do the lazy thing of like wearing f laser or like kind boring clothes. But you have this line that you repeat constantly, which is clothing is a social language, and you kind of have taught people how to speak IT, which kind of gives confidence and IT makes your clothing feel like armor, but also your dressing like the person you want to be, and you're speaking the language of the people who you want to speak with and kind of what you want to behave like. And I think this is why millions of men have liked you, because you're giving them confidence and teaching them the language.

I do think of closing a social. I've always thought of IT in that sense, because, you know, if you grew up anytime before the internet, know you may have been part of some social group around a hobbie and interest, like you are a skater or you're into punk music, whatever, and everyone I knew dressed a certain way to communicate identic. Like they were a joke or there a nerd or whatever.

And there was always rules around that. Look, even if no one wrote a book and spell that out for you, you'd kind of knew that this was the look. And everyone kind of confirmed to the look of their social group and identity, a kind of broadcast of the message.

And I think over time, I ve just kind of taken that idea and talked about how it's also used in classic taiLoring, or you know, tech, where whatever is the atheling genre, people are using dress to communicate something, and even people who dress and ways that is subconscious, that they they think they don't care about clothes, they still kind of dress according to their social economic class. I bring up this example often. There was a moment in the tech industry in the early two thousands where the hoodies and genes uniform was a way to signal.

I don't care about clothes. I'm like the woods kid, you know, kind of hacker that's reshaping the economy. All I care is about mark tok, racy and skills.

But IT just so happens that over time, within that industry, everyone starts to also dress the same. So to some degree, people are at least conscious of what is the look within their group. And they were careful to not D V A too far from IT because they want to signal that they belong. There's a, there's a article that often mention on twitter and sometimes in interviews. The author name is car less, but I can't members last name, but he wrote article called inside the mirror gracy mirror, like looking into the mirror. And autographs in his article was about how even in the tech industry where people say they don't care about clothes, everyone mirrors each other and clothes, do you play a part? Because if you showed up to a job interview for the technical and you wore three, people assume that you don't fit in, and they will read something into your closer, to some degree, closed do matter.

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demos yourself back to the this is the first time we've ever done an anonymous podcast. And I want to ask you a bit about your rise. So if there's over anything that you want, answer me. But is this your full time gig now, which is kind of A A writer or whatever IT is you describe .

yourself as? Yeah, I make my living off writing about there's .

a this concept that I think I learned from you or a river hole you set me down is IT called a spread or where it's like you're being careless, but that's kind of the cool part, right? It's like not trying too hard, but you look amazing. Do they explain accurate?

yes. IT was originally ally, introduced by an italian rider during the sixteen seventeen th century. And the writer who originally uses term was describing how to serve the king. And they were saying that you should do things in a way that concealed your effort.

An easy way to understand this is like if sam asked me to do a favor, can you, you know, pick up my car from this location and and drive to this place? I will do the favor, but insist that it's no big deal. It's not a problem.

Don't worry about IT even if IT is actually kind of inconvenient. And it's a way to essentially I get serve you to make the person feel good about what theyve asked of you. But preta in the main style sense is basically to dress in a way that concealed the effort that you've put in.

But the concept goes way back before this rider. IT goes back to even bromo, who is largely understood to have shaped much of modern men's style. And run will used to spend hours time his corvet, his White crevice, which is kind of a neck.

This, a famous story, probably made up, but the the story is that one of his val lays was seen exciting the room once, with a huge pile of caveat. And someone asked him what what those for? He said, these are our failures.

And the idea was that bromo actually spend hours and hours and hours in the morning putting two others look, and then he would walk out and then pretend that he just happened to a fell into these clothes like, that was no big deal. IT was a complete natural thing. He, he woke up like this and that is part of the idea that style is kind of a natural extension of you is not an .

and that sort of you're doing special with your twitter handle and with your writing and with your reach like, oh, I just kind of just what we came interesting and I don't know how big IT is, but in reality you're just behind the thing you just seeing.

You're just, yeah really oh, I just wrote this this really funny burn to this guy who replied and IT just happened to get two million views because that's what one of years the things that you do, which is pretty funny, is you like reply to a couple of people but you murder them like it's called murdered with words and that kind of your style which I find hilarious but one person you've turned me onto is um raf laun and raf Lauren has an interesting story, but i'm like a getting session with some of his quotes because he was raised a very Normal background but he said that he got obsessed with movies at a Young age. He was like, i'm not sure I can be an actor, but I can design my life via clothing. Know if I put on a farmers office, i'll feel like a farmer.

I put on a soldier style office. I to like a soldier of, feel tough, brave. And he hears this great quote.

He says, I don't design clothes, I design dreams. And then he dresses as as if whatever he wants to become. He was a jewish kid from the bronx. He was like, I want to feel like this, like old money sophistication. So he started dressing like that, and he became IT. And I think that's what is interesting about what you've opened up to a lot of people is this idea of like acting as if and then you become yeah .

if you go through a rough on flag is not true for the Normal stores, the Normal stores, noral stores. If you visit a raf one flagship it's like walking through, like epcot center, like the musement parks is like the ship world and there's a rocket ship world and all that. You go through a rough more and flagship. There's like the ranch world, there's the old money world. There's know there's all these different world that he creates around costumes, and it's because he knows how to amuse you with both that fantasy and to kind of use that language and design to reference different social ideas and identities.

I want to ask you practical tips on like dress and things like that, but I actually want to ask you practical tips first unlearning, i've noticed that you're pretty insane. Like I I read a blog where IT starts off like saying in the one hundred fifty nine book, try for elegance, which changes on mens clothing. And you like quote the book and you tell a story about the book and that lead into the rush writing.

I went and tried to find that book that was a book that's out of print that's like three hundred dollars or something like that and has like no reviews on amazon. And then you'll do like the history tweet. And I like, how the hell do you know this shit? And so what I wanted know is, how are you learning of these things in storing the knowledge? That's what fascinates me about you, is like your mastery of .

a topic that comes with a lot of buying stuff ends up being crappy. So i've bought a lot of books on clothing, if there, you know, especially old books, and if there was publishing some, you know, some time of this oba book, i'd buy and then read in the one stuff and up being crappy. But sometimes there is a good nugget over time.

I think you get a Better sense of like which books to buy. Obviously, you're not just constantly doing the scatter shot, but I do end up buying a lot of books and the reading them and then sometimes just like a nugget here and there. IT does help.

I would say that fashion as a topic for a while was not treated seriously. And to the degree is treated seriously, it's often focused on women's clothing. And then to the degree that men's clothing is taken seriously, there are many brilliant academic writers who focus on mens clothing, but they tend to be extremely academic.

So I am in a space where i'm just enthusiasts, and I try to write something that ties clothing into other parts of culture, which I hope makes IT more interesting to everyday people. And I I tried to do something that little, little smarter than just like basic trend reporting or fashion writing, but is a little bit more accessible than academic writing. And then also treat this water where not a lot of people are trading. And I think that kind of helps I think IT helps to be in this very specific space today.

You had a thing about like the quarter zip and like that caused so much, so much outrage. And I think I said, you are coming on. I get so many people, they are pissed off that you are coming because they're like to he he's so unreliable, able to the middle amErica guy.

And I think though that oddly, those people are books that are being turned on you right now. One of the the common issues that they come to with, and what's the general advice of the three most common things, like if you do this, is an you gonna be sixty percent of the way there, or significantly Better. You can answer any of those .

things without first thinking of close the social language and the thinking of what you want to communicate. So if you think of close the social language, you are, to me, like ninety percent of the way there. Because then you can think of, like how something should fit and the colors and the styles.

Now, let to combine, I admit that as my account has grown, i've lean a little bit more towards Taylor ing. Before my account start grow, I talk about a much wider range of styles, often like japanese work where or something. And I i've lean to look at more into taiLoring because that's an atheistic guage, is that I think more people understand .

is that limited as suits, suits.

sport coat, anything that would be concerned, like maybe smart casuals? I think there are certain kind of atheism that like everyone recognizes, oh, that's good. Again, bring you back to language. If you think of like dialogues, receive prunes ation, everyone recognizes that is like the o correct pronunciation and they recognize as the good english.

But you know throughout the there are many dialogues and even though everyone recognizes is receive prunes ation as the dialogue, if you speak receive pronunciation in certain parts of england, you might come off as kind of crazy, because everyone there speaks in a different dialect. But if you take that dialect and put IT across the nation, lot of people are gonna be very opinionated on whether not that is the correct way of speaking, because that's very regional. So there are certain modes of communication that are hydrogenic and suit sport codes.

A certain kind of, like Jesse kind of look is what I would consider hydro month. And visual aesthetics, even though wearing a chore coat or wearing a punk rock biker jacket or other aesthetics can be legitimate, their own way is just that you present that to other people. It's more controversial and a fewer people are going to recognize that. Is corner quite good because is so origin onal the problem with I. when you shot up like the mid western guy i get this a lot is that somebody from outside of antonio or new york city los angels to say i really like what you put out there how can i just like this and that is sometimes a question i can answer because if you want to wear spark coats and you live outside of a handful of cities and especially if you're fall outside of you know strategizing let's say your assize forty six chest i just got an email the other day someone has a forty eight chest but thirty two ways to their professional baseball play if you're that build and you are outside of the major cities i don't really have an answer for you because tailoring has died over last few decades there aren't many good tailors so what you're going to find is a lot of ready were tailoring which is not onna fit an unusual build and then you also have to be the kind of guy that willing to wear a sport coat even though other people aren't wearing a sport coat you have to put up with the fact that you are over dressed and you're doing IT for yourself and it's pleasing to you so sometimes if you are in a smaller city there may not be a lot of options and there may be i think harsher judgments whether i think in a big city you have the certain kind of unity where you can dress very different from others and nobody cares like nobody cares if you arrive to the office and a sparkle never once dressed down i still think you can in a small city of a friend who works for a religious organization he lives just outside of nash yeah he works for religious organization and he was a sport cope with genes to the office he told me that nobody in his office wears tail clothes up for the really old guys but he doesn't so often now that that's just like him and one he's obviously not going to get fired for IT but not like anyone comments on IT anymore or just him and i think IT does take that kind of personality and IT takes a willingness to really hunt for those rated wear pieces to figure out how things fit because men dressed well entirely clothing not because they knew all of the stuff is because they went to a local closure and that closer like alfred them you know you you go to your clothes you say i have to go to summer wedding or i work in this office like just figure out what am i supose to dress and that clothier told you you're going to some thing this is the thing that you're proposed to wear and they would figure out how it's supposed to fit and they do all the taylor and all that and you walk out you look amazing those clothes have disappeared and customer loyalty is no longer there as well so was a man used to go to his taylor and would introduce the sun to his taylor now men shot from different places not only different atheism but they might buy their genes from a gene company shirts from a shirt company is socks from sock company sometimes also buying the stuff online where there is no sales associate guide them and then they have to figure out how to put together not only a good outfit but also a good wardrobe and how to use that wardrobe to move throughout different social space all my friends i have a.

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you get.

your podcast telling me this and i like bought all that but i feel hopeless so i live right outside new york city so okay for me i can go to york city but i still feel hopeless for i like sounds super intimidating unit tailor yes.

there are solutions depending everyone has to figure out their own business if the guy that emailed me recently is a baseball player 四 h thirty two waste you are absolutely not going to find anything and ready to wear or made to measure you have to go to a spoke most people are not that build t most people are not professional baseball players most people are actually pretty average size so they can usually get a good enough fit in ready to wear i have some articles on know where i think you can shop for a suit but the issue is still that the effort is put on you you have to figure out what your fit issues how do you want to dress how to put together wardrobe someone recently emailed me with photos of a poet this person's writing an article about this poet life and this poet lived somewhere on the east coast early in this poet's life there was photos of him as a young person i would say like in this or so in the one thousand nine thirties and then over time you see him in in the in the twenty thousand and thirties he just really really well except i mean every age for the time but looking back like very very well yeah and then over time just start to working and as i was explaining to this writer if you can imagine this poet has an interest level in clothing look will say seventy out of one hundred in the one thousand nine twice and thirties he just has to walk down the block to get whatever he needs and then over time as tailoring disappears it's hard to find good clothes and the the number of options balloons and there's all these different languages a level seventy is only going to get you so far your interests level has to be ninety ninety five to get to how he dressed in the twenty and thirties because now you have to source things online you have to do all those crazy work there's a lot of burden now on on the consumer which is partly why it's difficult to build the wardrobe IT doesn't mean that a another a podcast interview me once and they asked you feel that most people are badly dressed and that's a very blowed question because i think there are many well dress people if you understand their own dress esthetical language when i walk around some of this guy i see people wearing cool hiking gear or vintage gear but they're often like embedded in some kind of cultural community but if you're outside of a cultural community that doesn't have much cultural capital because that in my view how we think of athletes we think of in terms of cultural capital and social language if you're outside of those communities and you're not a punk and you're not a cool hiker or you're not part of a rock band or whatever then you can have to figure out where to buy the clothes that express an identity that you like and how i should fit in all of that and yet unfortunately a much harder appeal battle than IT was fifty years ago but there's a really good he used to teach business at university of california bird i don't know if he still does things very shorts and he wrote a book called the paradox of choice that book opens with the story of how shorts enters the gap and a shopping for a pair of jeans and the cells association asked him do you want washed raw rest white dark blue slim fit street slim straight bai athalia and he gave him all these options and he said he walked out that day from the gap with the best person gene he's ever thought he was left more unsafe fied than he ever felt because just knowing that there are so many choices made him question the choice that made that day and part of this book is that people are often better off if they're given a much more constraint number of choices so if you think of like going into an apple store there are very few choices and y've constrained IT to make the purchasing decision process easier but they are at an presumably they think so they're all good choices and the promote the moment at the market is that there are billions of choices for any style of item following any number of design languages any number of fits and that has caused incredible anxiety in the market which is very difficult.

to solve here's how i'm solving IT is i go to your blog or people who i like or follow on instagram and i'm just like i'm just going to do what they do and and and it's sort of like when you learn how to play music uh you play other you play other people's music for a long time and then you start seeing like men i love like this little rip from this rock like genre and and i like i'm inspired a little IT by this thing crafting my og because i ve just learned the technique and i know like what's cool and what's not and what's my texture would dress its kind of the same thing like i am new so whatever dare ever i follow on gram does i'm just na copy that in doing that after a couple years i'm going to develop my own sense and then so like the question i have for you which is it's hard to know when you're shopping online which is what i think most people in the touring thirties do it's hard to know what's good and the reason why you need to know what's good is because if i were to follow what you and a lot of people say i would be buying so much does but that's not exactly what you are wanting me to do i think what you and what i believe is that you should buy for life uh you buy less things but you buy high quality things that can last a lifetime i still struggle to figure out what those high quality things are and so my question is how should i figure out what is a high quality brand or high quality product that is deserving of more money to be spent online.

yeah all i agree with everything you said of a fund people that you like and copy them on the issue of how to find the quality think so there there are he sounds like you read of a lot my work so i've written about different ideas of how we think of quality there is the build quality so there is such a thing as as a certain kind of build quality with cloth so to give an example little If you buy leather dashes made with a Blake stitch or good, your wealth on the soul and the uppers are made from full Green leather, those shoes will age Better, last longer.

and they can be resolved like an all, then yeah.

like an olden. Versus, if you buy something with a glued on soul and made from corrected Green leather, that correct, Green leather is a bad mother, has been standing down to remove the blushes for scars and what not, and then coated with some chemical to make IT look smooth than Normal. Again, uniform.

And that coding, eventually, flake sf doesn't age very well. So you end up looking your shoes. You don't like how they look.

And then you go out by a new pair, whether full Greening leather will age Better over time, IT look more natural. IT gets the kind of peta, the people like. And then with a stitched on soul, you can always unstitched soul and replace IT.

You can actually still replace glued on soul. Blood is a little bit more risky. There's only three of many times you can do IT.

And I wrote an our on, put this on, had a judge. Quality clothing and IT runs through almost the category. I an no accept cortex parties.

I mean, generally speaking, sweaters choose Taylor jackets, you know, like wove and shirts, things like that, like how to think of quality. But the scope of build colis actually pretty narrow. There are some things that are generally greet upon as what is good build quality.

To give example, with Taylor jackets, there are certain kind of ideas of what is a Better or worse tae jack in terms of build quality. But some things are pretty subjective. And if a designer is trying to bring a suit or sport coat to market, they're working with a factory in.

The factory has a little thing like three hundred Operations. There is a certain gold standard for quote and quote, but the designs often not trying to sell like a five, six, seven thousand or suit. They're trying to sell two thousand suit. So they have to make design decisions on word to cut back, quote and quote, and how they decide which part of the three hundred Operations to cut back is more is, I think, very subjective.

But the real measure of quality should be, are you excited to put IT on today? And do you think you'll excited to put the song ten years from now? That doesn't always mean wearing a classic cathodic IT could be mean, mean wearing something crazy because you like wearing crazy clothes.

And then will this thing last to, you know, some degree? There is there is like a certain kind of build quality in terms of will this thing last? If you buy something and IT falls apart in two years, I think most people would want something that last a little bit longer than that, like as a physical item.

So I think those things do you get IDE wearing IT will IT last design wise and also kind of construction wise, and and also does a fit and flare to you when you put IT on and you look at yourself in the mirror, do you like how you look? And I think those basic points, are you excited by the thing that you're wearing and is a fat and flat to you, I think gets you much further than thinking of this purely as an engineering problem. You can't just read specks of a sheet like when you're buying electronics to some degree, it's more like food when you bite into IT does a taste good? Are you decided to go out to that restaurant? I think that's a much more a Better way to approach things, the more holistic way to approach things than thinking of IT. Just in terms of is this well made when .

I was kind of up in coming in my career, I didn't have a lot of money and you I so on business and like to pay myself very much until I was like afraid to to spend and buy things even though I like wanted stuff, you know but even after I made a little bit money, I was to always nervous to spend and so I see guys like you um you know these uh writing. So I who I admire, they've got like some great clothing.

And in my head i'm wondering how many items do they actually own in a closet and how many like cause like orbital, recently I could have gone six months without buying a clothing item. Now I like, you know, I think on your blog, you say when you first get into the shit, even if you have money by slow is a little bit and I myself and I D all IT how many things do you buy per month and what's like a reasonable uh, amount span, do you think? Or someone who afford these things.

I do spend a lot more than the average. First, admit that I don't know the exact number. But to given example, I recently bw a hoody from very nuckles about two double old final shirts.

W final shirt is what? Two to four hundred?

Not enough. I would I would never have gotten a hundred dollar final. sure. I think I spent I want to say like one seventy five I bought a pair uh right and cargo pants.

Those are kind of expenses like three fifty um but i've been losing over them for like a year. So I finally just thought them that's for this season. I don't really imagine myself buying much for the rest the season.

So you know I think most people are not buying too shirt to hoody in a pair of pants twice a year because I I break up my shopping into seasons for spring, summer, fall, winter. And then I do use a lot of custom Taylors. And I usually have like a super sport coat in the work through a custom Taylor. And that's been true for a while. So you know again that most people are not doing that.

Those suits are getting tailored. Are those the spoke? Are those off the rack that you're getting fitted to you?

Uh, they are facebook.

That's interesting. That has always intimidated me because IT seems like it's a it's a pain in the ass of a process. And you have one post in your blog, you're not sure if you can even tell the difference all the time.

Yes, I had this friendly argument with a good friend of mine who strongly feels that you can tell. I will say I was in A D M. I am I am A D M. With some guys were into clothing and we were looking at a politicians sue and we all suspect that he's wearing the spoke um because of the stitching and the styling and all and and we can kind of point point the region of where the tailors from.

But potentially this first is wearing like five thousand dollars. Its is what you're saying.

I I would estimate that their suit probably cost around three to four thousand and then I checked twitter account. They follow me. So like maybe they do buy facebook suits, so maybe you can tell. But um I am still very skeptical al where are not generally speaking, you can tell the difference seeing where the spoke and I completely agree I think we spoke S A huge sole. Um there's more misses than people um let on online.

I think it's very important when you go into that space to know that like not all commissions turn out well and after pretty common commissions turn up poorly even if you're using a good tailor. But there are a lot of bad tailors. Once there are some people who need to spoke.

we have to define IT is the terminal gy like uh, off the rack? And then one up from that is like made to measure, which is I guess a suit supply. And is the spoke purely from scratch?

Well, the short answer then is ready to wear is what you go to store and contacting, feel and put on yourself and put back on the rack made to measure is something that has a block pattern, which is a primate pattern that they adjust, given your measures, your measured, and then they adjust the pattern, make the government straight to finish, and then you come in for what they call one fitting, which means they, they put the garment on you.

Can they figure out, you know, what need to be change? That sitting is basically not that much different than putting on a ready where government and they do adjustments. The only sometimes difference is that in a mate major government, they they have more in lay, which means there's more broom for adjustment.

And then but spoke theoretically, is that the pattern is produced from scratch. And then there's a series of fittings, typically three based forward and final fitting. And then it's sort of like you can imagine IT as someone sketching, like when you're you know, when I was an art class in high school, they taught us like do a sketch and then you kind like fillon, and then you kind of work IT out.

Fitting is sort of like that. The Taylor sketches out what they think is gonna look good and then does a fitting and forget out what adjustments needs to be made. And then through that iteration process, supposedly you want up with a Better garment reality, a little more complex than that. But that is that the general controls.

But your recommendation is, for most people, is IT ready to wear, and that you get tailored.

absolutely right, aware, because few reasons. One is that most people are straight size, meaning they can fit into a really where government, because those governments are made for the average sized person. And then to the tiny differences, you are probably not as obsess as I am with, like, oh like the quarters are not open enough and like the shoulder is you are you probably are not like obsessed over those things.

Even if you are obsess with those things, you have to like realize that like ninety nine percent of people seeing you are not going to see those things. And even if they do see those things, you have to be standing like a robot um for someone to spot those things in real life. You move around and you're sitting and your interacting with the world.

So like all of the things that people are talking about, including me, those disappear. And then the third thing is that most people don't care about the craft element. And even if they do think they care about the craft element, they probably in spottin. So like, can you tell the difference between the machine made butter hole and hand made butter hole?

No, of course not. A very few people came and I think.

yeah so like there are some people who need the spoke and those are people john fetterman will never be able to fit into an authority, government or even made to measure because he's very far from the advertized person. He would have to go spoke if he wanted to suit that fit, but most people are not that person. In the most important reason, the.

The top terrorist of why everyone should try ready, ready over first is because you can try on the government and put IT back on the rat. Nothing happens at the end of the day, as with a custom government, if the Taylor or offers you a money back arantes e they're not a good Taylor or no good Taylor will ever offer that because IT takes a lot of time, effort and money to produce a good suit. And then if there if it's final sale, that means that if you put IT on, IT might not fit well.

There's no guarantee that's gna fit well. But even if that does fit well, you might not like the silly well, you might have chosen a crappy fabric. Maybe you ask for dumb details, and then all of the garments produce you look at.

And you realize of this actually looks horrible. There are many things that can go wrong. And then at that point, you've just spent anywhere from, you know, like two two, eight thousand dollars, possibly for a garment. And you can't return IT.

Where's with a ready work garment? You can try on a ten thousand I don't even know twenty thousand dollars exist for everywhere. But if they did, you can try IT and put IT back on the rock and nothing happens.

And that's the number one reason, even if you are just getting into this and you suspect that you need a custom government, I still think you should try ready to where because when you try ready to wear, you can start to identify certain things. You can start to say, oh, actually don't like how I look in a in a very soft shoulder jacket. I think I need more padding, or I don't actually like how I look in a three button jacket.

I think I want a two button jacket. And once you start getting an eye for that siller wet, you can then start to find a tailor. Because if you know that you want a very padded cut that narrow, your options are a quick break.

I know that I relisted my personality. That means you love numbers. Well, I got a new podcast called money was.

And the premise is simple. We talk to high network people. So people who have somewhere between fifty to five hundred million dollars. And we start with simple premise, which is tell me exactly how much money you have, how much money you make every month, what your your portfolio looks like, how much money you spend every month and every other bit of information that involves your network and you are spending. And the reason we do this is because I want to demystify money.

So we just have the woman and and who has uh and ninety four million dollar portfolio after selling her business and SHE spends three hundred and sixty thousand dollars amount that he talks about where the money is, what SHE spends IT on and why SHE spends that much if IT makes her happier now. And then we dive deep on different topics like children buying versus renting, giving money away. We basic are having a conversation that I see a lot of rich people having behind closed doors.

We do IT publicly to check IT out is called money in wise. And you could find IT wherever you get your podcast. I have a tailor now, and I don't know if I like, like, it's kind of funny. First of all, a lot of Taylors is IT a red flag if your Taylor dresses poorly or has poorly fitting close or is IT like one of those things or it's like the couple kids is the last kids to get shoes, you know? I mean.

yes, the complex case last zero, many Taylors who who also dressed, probably because many Taylors are Better thought of his technicians, they're not like style. So they themselves are often just wearing something that's not very interesting. So I I wouldn't judge a Taylors work by how they address, but I would judge a tailors work by the customers that come out. So if the customers come out and they all are wearing suits that don't fit the chance of you getting a good suit from the Taylors, very low.

But if all the customers walk out and their suits fit perfectly and especially helps if the customers walk out, have a similar build this you so if you are a very heavy guy, you see heavy guys walking store and they all have to that fit both and yeah the chance of you getting a good seat that teaser, I obviously you're not going to stick out a Taylor shop and like just know like what see who comes out the tour. But you can do this on instagram. You can go instagram, go to the tag section and you know see if the people that wear the cloth, if they are closed. Foot, well.

yeah, I I like to collect all denim. So I was, I been in the salvage and rod, and probably two thousand eight. It's kind of a weird, uh, hobby.

Oh, so you are not new to this. If you, if you are into demand, two thousand eight, you are actually you're very seasoned. And so you know this very well.

I am, am, is my, i'm A, i'm a an american history nerd. I'm very passionate. So have you ever seen T, V show? American pickers? yeah.

I used to work with mike when I was in college. That was my college job. I was working with mike from a mac pickers.

And so I I got, and i'm obsessed with american history. And there two two or three things that are very american are a and a the leather jacket. And so i've always known um shot leather jacket or always or booker leather jackets.

Um yeah and then like a red tag, levis or big e leave. I was one of customers of imagination, William. I would spend like ungodly a mounts. And I would say I have a more saved I dos of saved because I want I I read heads and I ve been the fate the day .

friday and you presenting yourself as neutrals hobby, you are as season as they come anyone who says all of those words headed les and imagine really and Carry .

from imagine um like I used to go to the store all time, any money and they would come of pay me and give me a shirt. Everyone is well and then like when I started making like ten dollars an hour somewhere, I I bought my first imagine and I would get drink to fit. Leave eyes back when I was eighteen.

I love that shit. But as I got bigger, I I got I in a weight living. And so my legs got too big for a lot of these like traditional stuff.

So I then I used to go to self edge in S F. And get flat. That was got, anyway, the japanese should I love? And so my point being, I spent all this money on deam and what i've in.

And it's sort of like you start as a beginner where you buy cheap shit and then you go in the middle what you buy, really expensive higher stuff. And then now i've sort of ended on the other side to wear. I'm just buying thirty dollar wranglers that fit well. And so like with with with Taylor's stuff, that's what you've inspired me with this Taylor's stuff i'm kind of new to where i'm buying the cheap shit started stuff that that I could Taylor, that's actually pretty dub. But then i'm like going to like suit supply, which is like a thousand dollars and I like a kind of fuck sucks like I should either like go to like keep the cheap dude, cheap thrip ed stuff that you get Taylor or go .

like pretty high end that journey what you're talking about imagine if you started that then journey and you're buying like twenty one ounce iron hearts. Yeah you would probably not even get into IT because .

you'd be like this who yeah .

the only way that you end 2i on her dina is if you start with fourteen and you like how they feel and then someone says， oh, about you try sixteen outs and then you you like you really like how they felt, then you move up and also then you are twenty one outs and then you like, I actually do like this even though no saying person would ever like this.

But it's just because i'm in this hobby so that to me, the same with rated wear, with taiLoring is that you start you have to figure out what you like. There is a really good book that I like. It's called perfumes. The guide by luck turn and tiny sanchez.

a book on perfumes. Yeah.

but it's it's just a just a list of reviews. So it's helps if if you are into perfumes and you want to look up a review of with, someone thinks, a perfume. But in the introduced ary chapters, time is sanchez rights.

I've talked to hundreds of people into perfumes, and they all seem to follow a similar journey. In the beginning, there is this exploration stage where you're like finding perfumes and like her mother's wardrobe or her father's dressed her, whatever. And then you have explored different notes.

And then there is the stage where you think you've found your taste. And you have very rigid rules about everything, a very strong opinions. And then the third final step is what he feels is navona where you know the rules, but you're not like strict about them and you just like what you like.

So I think that's actually pretty true for a lot of things, whether you're into motorcycles or where you're into you know, your foot, you're into found pens, is that people start with an explosion in stage. They figure out the train, you know, the hills are over there and the lakes are over there, and then they get very added about rules like everything has to be this way. And then there's a point where they just know what they like and there not as adam of about the rules.

And sometimes the things that they like are not even the expensive covered things everyone talks about is just something they like. And that's IT, that's the that's the emotional that's the nevada of the e rich. So the thing that you like might just be wranglers.

it's just a pain in the ass that you have to spend as much money, that much money and in a decade to go through this and that I mean, that's why I like reading your blog and reading people like you is like and like, how can I just like speed, run some of these learnings and just not make the mistake that made before?

Like, for example, uh, a big thing in clothing that that all people are bringing back as high rise trousers and like there was this period where we went through like slim clothing. And first of all, it's the fucking and worse because IT looks stupid looking back on IT and it's like incredibly uncomfortable and like hf to do. Half of men can like they have big as is a big die like we can't wear that self like you can only wear that self if you're a smaller person but it's like, I just wish I would have like stuck to more timeless things and thought. What was cool fifty years ago and will likely be cool in fifty years from now or what I think will be cool. And I just wish I won't have gone through that that that slim days because now how I have so much slim stuff and i've spent ten of thousands of .

dollars yeah um I mean, I will say that that high rise follow leg look, I often talk about online in the context of the clothing if you if you want to dress like mick jagger and rocks and roll kind of like, you know, tight of jackets and tight rock t shirts, and you need tight pants.

that only works if you are small, if you're a smaller person. By the way, yes, I yes to be expected. If you're above five, ten and over like one eighty, it's hard to pull that off because he just looks like you look stupid. And i've tried to do that and I look so dumb.

I I do think IT helps to be a certain build for that look. And then the whole look has to come together. You have, again, think of bit in terms of like a social language thing, but if you're wearing a tailor jacket, like a good jacket to sport, I do think there are certain proportions for the trousers that worked Better for the jacket.

And especially is is works Better across a wider range of men. There are some men who can wear very, very skin tight suits, but they are often very thin, and they usually have very broad shoulder compared to the way they are basically models. If you look at runway models, they're wearing the suit.

They do look good, but most people are not built like that, and a jacket can only be as tight as your body allows. So at some point you have to figure out how to create a trouser silver that works with the jacket that you're wearing. And the jacket is constrained by your own body's proportions. I appreciate .

you coming on this podcast. You're the man and h. Thank you for everything.

Thank you. Thanks for having beyond. This was a pleasure to beyond. So thank you for the opportunity. you.

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