BTC208: Why CBDCs are Failing & Bitcoin is Winning w/ Dread (Bitcoin Podcast)
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You're listening to T I. P. Hey everyone.

welcome to this wednesday's released of the bitcoin fundamentals s podcast. This episode is brought to you by river. The place that I personally go to securely invest in bitcoin with confidence and with zero fees on this week show I have a Stellar guest with jamaica, very own dead.

He's a former world class athlete entrepreneur building the premier r between exchange application for the carribean. And he's a board member at open SAT. During our conversation, he talks about the unique situation where the corbyn islands are trying very hard to incorporate a CBD c or central bank digital currency to the local population and why it's all going so terribly wrong.

In addition to many other topics, thread provides an amazing overview of how e cash payments are conducted completely offline and without an internet connection for both the center and the receiver, and how that's all possible. He provides awesome examples and makes engineering seem easy by some of his descriptions. So I promise you, this is in a conversation that you'll wants to miss. And with that, let's jump right into the conversation with dread.

Celebrating ten years, you are listening to bitcoin fundamentals by the investors podcast network now for your host press in pesh.

Hey, everyone, welcome to the show. I'm here with dread. Welcome too, bitcoin fundamentals on the investors podcast network.

Thank you. Present place to be here.

So we've got to know each other through a couple different events that we've both attended. You're obviously in the bitcoin space, your building in the bitcoin space. But where I want to start off this conversation is proudly ly in an area that a lot of people aren't expecting. And we're going to start off talking about sports because user are a pretty renown poll voter have done pretty well at sports. And what I find interesting in this space, as you find people like yourself that are high achievers in certain areas, and they then latch honor, they see this thing called bitcoin, and they just really resonates with them. And I guess my question is this, do you think that there are some type of parallels here between like athletes that or just you know some of the top tier athletes and their ability to focus and to work really hard at something and to kind of really understand and bitcoin very quickly because maybe the proof of work that's associated with IT or some other type of quality that is resonates with peak performers. So take IT away.

Yeah, again, thanks. Thanks for having me on your show. I think that you are hitting something that's pretty close to home as an athlete. There is two things, two characteristics I think that really drove me into bitcoin head first.

IT wasn't just the proof work, was also the fact that for sports, especially a single athlete, sports like not teaming sports moon, a sport like truck and field, you really have to be able to push past, not just you're in personal boundaries or you're personal limitations are limiting beliefs, but you also have to push past other people telling you that, oh, you might not be able to do this, or, oh, you know, no one is before what you thinking. So my story is that truck and feel is a huge sport in to make o no, you see bolt, yeah, the world record holder. So when you go to shock and feel in jaco and you try to do IT, it's like trying to compete in american N F L.

You, you you're not going to probably make IT because it's one of that you gonna that and good to be able to compete ck and field in jamaal. The athletes are just top tier, right? Best in best, we win.

Go DDL every olympics. And we were very small island. So when I went in the track and field, you know, I went in thinking, i'm gonna a star going to do my thing. And then I failed at spring.

I mean, I was not bad, but I was in the best OK. What was your time .

for a hundred meter? I think my best time ever was ten pots for what? Seconds, yeah. And that .

sounds great. right?

Is make the finals in in the local competition in german.

Ww, so you can give out that time is blazing fast .

at my peek ably can run thirteen.

That's now.

yeah. Ww, I thought I was good until I realized that there were Better athletes. And then I said, you know what, I really love chicken field.

I'm going to try other event, someone to see, you know, how I can make to make a national team. I tried long jump. I tried triple jump, I tried long distance.

I tried now, throwing the shot put, throwing the javan, you name IT. I tried the event, trying to make this team. And there were just talented athletes left and right.

And then there was one sport of tofu that, knowing in to make a did, because there was just such a crazy sport, right? Like halting to explain the audience, you take this long of the six fit fiber glass pole that is really hard to bend. You have to put A A lot of pressure.

You sprint full, speed down, runaway, and then stop us a hole in the ground, full speed, and then you throw your body into the pool so your body weight bends the pool. And you hope that you ended enough to throw you upwards and over a bar while you yourself are doing a dynastic move to upside down and over that bar. So that whole thing I decide that i'm going to try IT.

I'm going to make the jamaican team by doing this completely revolution stary thing in our island that knowes ever done before. Yeah, so you going to see what i'm going with this, right? It's like you have to have this part turn of wanting to excel where you realize people haven't really have been brave enough to separate from the pack and do IT yourself and do IT themselves.

And that kind of is where I would parallel to be. I was accepting in all, I was willing to P, I was willing to go and see if thing was possible, failed. Okay, fine, right?

Go back and try to sprint today and or play chess or something, I don't know. But, you know, because I took that chance, I had phenomenal success. I traveled all over the world, you know, I represent in my country. I had the national record for living year straight in the pool, and pretty good, but only because I take that chance.

And paul walls, the same way i'm a sorry bitcoin is the same way I was able to really understand bitcoin and then benefit from IT because I stepped away from the traditional you know corporate technology trends that I knew about where people telling mean or blockchain is the win because is bad or because only an investment profile. Our investment, not really it's not. And I no technical merit, and I had to step away from the people who are trusted in the technology space and say, let me explore this for myself and find out if this thing actually has technical married, find this thing actually is separate from cyp to, and if IT actually had has a purpose.

And that's when I realized that i'd actually had a bigger purpose and just investment. And IT has a purpose for freedom. IT has a purpose for, you know, financial sorento ity, you name IT. We can talk about that for days, but that's kind of wear parallel athletics to bitcoin allowed me to one do the proof work, but to trust myself that I can find out something that other people might not know is possible.

What i'm curious is, who taught you to think like this? What caused you to think like this, where IT was like a lot of people telling, you know, and you're saying, now, you know what, I can make this team like you were.

So what's the word and look at, you are so determined that you could do this despite all the new stairs and despite all the people saying, oh, well, you know, you run a ten, it's really fast but no, and most people just kind of throw their hands in the air like I did really well, and then they just move on to the next thing. So what caused you to be relentless, like this was at a parent, was at an event. What like, help us understand this? Because we want to tap people listening to this, want to be able to tap into what that is, whatever IT is.

Yeah, it's a great question. Maybe I am just really stubbing.

I would .

probably say that I come from a linux of engineers, my dad and engineer or my grandfather engineer um so we have this methodology within my family of really trying to solve problems, as you know, as opposed to trying to go around them, check the engineering solutions to things maybe that where came from, you know, kind of like I consider myself to be a dog with a bone when he comes to a problem that I need to solve.

I don't I don't try to run away from IT. So ah I would consider IT some of IT being you know nature some of being nature. Um I probably a combination of the two that .

engineering back ground play helps with the .

bickering piece too. Absolutely, absolutely. Yeah, there was another problem to solve. Read, yeah.

So tell us the highest that you ever cleared, OK val, in american .

imperial system, out seventeen feet three, four, oh, seventeen feet four and .

three court. So like a basketball hoop and three, four of another basketball hop. And you got your entire body up and over IT without touching IT.

That's right. Over five point three meters, and this is up all the way upside down with touching this IT was fine, having watched people .

povl and never IT hides that you are saying here, but just watching people power. The thing that always seemed so crazy to me was this leap of faith, like moment, like right as the pole is getting stuck and you're pushing all of your weight into IT, how you have enough faith to continue to hold onto the pole, to then sling shot you that first, like that first part in the kind of put your body in a position I couldn't imagine learning to do that for the first time.

Like what that leap of faith, because IT seems like such a leap of faith that like i'm just going to trust this thing and I might like throw me wherever I might, just like slide down the pole or whatever. What was that like when you were first learning this? And how old were you when you first started learning this?

So when I first arted learning, I was, we used the british system. So I was in third form. So I was probably about fourteen years old, almost fifteen at the time.

And he gona love the answer to this, what gave me the confidence and the faith that do IT. And that was possible, apart from just watching videos of other people. The answer really is math. A very similar, a bit coin.

I so how such an engineer, the answer, such an .

IT is. But IT IT also made me, gave me an advantage over the other guys that competed against me that wasn't sure what was going to happen, like they need to bend this and didn't know what was to happen. And to the left, right, but with physics and understanding the conversion of potential energy into connected energy, and understanding the angle that the poll hit the ground.

And then if you understand the math behind IT all, and you know what the possible outcomes are, IT gives you a lot more conference going in. And with a lot more confidence, you can put a lot more power into IT. You have less concerned over going around direction.

IT really was math. I mean, that sounds like an engineering answer, but he gave me a distinct advantage over guys who didn't do the math, who didn't do the proof work, to find out is is safe to do this. And then they would compete against me. And they will be holding on for their life, you know, to the pool, instead of actually using the forest that they need to use.

So wow, I love this. This and that really taps. Into something that we talk about on the show with respective big coin all the time, which is people are talking about position size.

And I tell them you can't possibly have a larger position size without matching IT with intellectual rigor and understanding of what IT is that you own because you're just kind of it's almost like walking into a dark room and you kind of scared to take the next step because you don't actually understand like what's in there or how it's constructed. And like perfect example of what we're getting out with some of that. All right, let's transition into the conversation around bitcoin.

I love that, that was so fascinating. You and I had this conversation when we were in nashville in the corbyn and how they're really pushing hard for central bank digital currencies or C B, dc s down there in the islands. Explain this cultural phenomenon.

Why is that happening? What's IT like from the local population standpoint? Just give us kind of the layer, the land.

what's happening? sure. Let's start off with just the local region and what they're trying to accomplish. Microprocessor, just like most front regions, they want to be on the edge of technology.

They want to show that they are the first to do this or the first to do that. Well, a lot of carbon islands to make up, the bahamas, aruba, they are all trying to be first in technology. And one of the technology fads that are happening right now is to CBDC the central bank digital currency.

So they think that if they are able to promote and push out a central, central currency, get Better favor organizations like the financial action task force, like the I M F, like, you know, all of these different organizations that are pushing for IT, they will be more favorable. We'll take them off the great list if they are on the great list. So is a very big financial incentive to show that you are trying to do what the central banks of the central banks want you to do.

That being said, it's a little bit of A I like what is he said, it's a little bit of a ARP where they're making this thing, but it's not really doing what you think it's doing like bitcoin is, know the real scarce acid stable coins provider bridge, and they allow people to have liquidity of in the digital space. But the CBDC is just a digital representation of the same fia trap that were in today. He doesn't provide scary IT doesn't provide any more security and then IT create this, you know, or of surveilLance that people didn't help before.

And if you look at different cultures across the cuban, we are all reacting the same way as nigeria, reacting the same way where we are not adopting IT. They've tried to roll loud C, B D season jamaica, there's two percent adoption. Try to roll IT out into bahamas, there's six percent adoption.

They're trying to force IT. They're trying to Mandate IT to happen. So I think what's going to happen in a long run is that the CBDC es are going to be launched and then they are going to kind of fade away because the central banks will not have support from the retail and commercial banks.

They don't want IT either. And then eventually, I think stable coin ts will become kind of the you know the shift where the C O K, well, C D C didn't work. Let's see if we can use the stable coins to, you know course correct, where the fiat currency is going arrive.

I don't know what I look like in the long term, but and this is i'm hoping for, right, there is still be an alternative to that, is that they decide to push C, B, D forward regardless. And then IT becomes more about surveilLance tool than a financial direction tool. And that's my big fear. That reason on building a company, I can interact what the CBDC is trying .

to do interest to definitely jumped up ahead. What else we're going to say .

yeah I wanted to give I don't the edit or not but um I wanted to give a quick differential description between the CBDC and a stable coin yeah the people who are listening. Yeah because the C B D, yeah the CBDC is like I said IT it's a fear currency in digitize form that means there is still is no scarcity is not backed by anything except the full forest in faith of your local governments.

Where is a stable coin? IT is more IT depends on the stable coin classification. If you're an asset box stable coin, then you can be buck by a bus of goods, right? You can be back by U.

S. Treasuries, can be back by U. S. Dollars, can back by assets, stocks, boto. If you are crypto back table coin, then you can be biked by other cypher currencies, which as we know, are very volatile.

What is still the back on of some sort, right? And then you can have already mix stable points, which are, you know, the tera luis, the stuff that F G X failed upon. And these are all different class of table coining.

The coins you seen most of the world using other circle. You are very strongly asset back stable coins that governments are probably start tapping into, mainly because they're kind of relying on them, right? Like you look at the U.

S. Government, a big chunk of their treasury of the second big inspire thing or third big inspire is title of their treasury's. So to me, that looks like something that would be a much more realistic and game for digital currencies verses the CBDC. And that's all when people see the difference like CBDC is more of a surveilLance slap and a stable coin is more of more of A A feet bridge. And then as we know, the angle is always going to be bitcoin.

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All right, back to the show. Talk to us about how they're rolling IT out the CBD c in the corner are people being asked a download of a wall IT and then there's coins in there like a walk us through because i'm not familiar at all with how that process would work.

okay? It's ironic because they're rolling IT out in the almost a self destructive way. So step one, they create A, C, B, D, C. And it's it's not D, L, T, based is a straight database with a central password somebody is holding.

And once they mental, these coins, these tokens, then they say, okay, this CBDC is now being controlled by the central bank, and we have our own commercial bank partners that can distribute the tokens among your users. Can your wallets. The central bank does not have a wallet.

The central bank has Mandate now all of the retail banks to create their own wallet to distribute the CBDC. So commercial banks on the retail banks are creating different wallets. N, C, B has a wallet called link L, Y, N, K, sagor has a wallet called my cash.

And gm b is still developing the world, but hasn't completed developing IT yet. Each one of these link is the most mature one. They went out.

They did what, you know, most people do. They give thirty box U. S. Free for everyone who downloads the wallet. They had millions of people down with the wallet to maga has three, two point eight million people right now. They probably had seventy percent of people on the wallet. Sixty percent of them immediately deleted IT afterwards, got a thirty box and died today, spent millions of dollars doing this, but no adoption.

And the banks, the retail banks specifically, did not push for this adoption because to them, they're like, well, you're taking away our revenue ah yeah, if we're using regular doors, we get different we get fees for those dollars, get transaction fees, fees, get know all the different fees yeah if we give people your C B, C, we get cut out of the picture completely. We get no fees ah the banks completely, you self destructed the role of strategy and now they're trying again to see if that will work a different way. But I think that, you know, like I said before, it's so alarp and they're not going to get any support from the banks, not directly.

The banks will always say yes, yes will do what you say, but the banks are never gonna being proactively support them and make this a success. I think they'll have to be much more of all a forest Mandate. Does my concern maham is is focusing IT be a government and top down Mandate.

And if that is successful, then he does not matter what the bank say. You know people be forced to use IT and that's a concern. But from a incentive perspective, I think that CBDC s has A A tohill l to climb because they don't have institutional support.

Yeah, but IT also seems like any government entity, they just have a total gross misunderstanding of incentives and rolling in a way that is that you're going to have a natural intent of our desire to use IT. Wow, that's fascinating.

You can see why it's feeling so badly based on how you describe that we had a metal deal on the show just a couple weeks back and he was talking about open seat, which is a non profit where they're helping they're getting lots of donations and then they are are helping startup's allocate resources into the space for great ideas and maybe things that are experimental or very early stage. You are a board member at open sets. So talk to us about some of this experience that you've gained and what that's been like, maybe something that you find really fascinating or exciting about the project and just anything else you want to share.

Open sites have been a humbling experience for me. I have to say I am on the board with eight other people that are far beyond some of the best people I ever met there. Some old the space, all some different corners of the space too.

Um we are very, very essential zed group, I would say um a lot of our conversations never ending agreements, which is good, is then we have a very wide range of opinions and have good votes because of that. But I would say my experience for open en sites have been great from the beginning. Odeo and band Price that founded IT have been stalwarts, and they have been very, very consistent about the mission, which is a hundred percent through for all of our donations. And we have separate donations for the Operations fund.

which which in of itself is for anybody in the non profits basis. Totally crazy to see numbers of that magnet. De, just to throw that out there. But sorry, in the up, keep going.

No, you're right. I explain how is this gonna in the beginning, you know but because the vision is clear, you know, it's just the incentives line and IT worked very well and we have really is donor that. And then we also have very clear mission statement were open first.

First, like all of our projects and grants have to be on an open source license. If you're education, which I am a lead of, IT has to be on a creative commons license without the attribution. So we're very clear on that.

From there is all down the line from there. Are you lightning? Are you not there? Are you bitcoin? Are you biton core? You need long term support.

Are you one time project, you know very easy from that point forward to know who we want to fund based on who's doing the proof work in the space. You don't find ideas as much. We fun people who are actively in the space and showing improved work.

And then from there, if you are looking for funding, go to open set start org. We have a mission statement. There are exactly what we have.

We have applications online. If you need any questions, you need answer. You created to us directly. All of our information is on the website.

All the board members are looking to talk on signal no in person you are a conference were very accessible. So I love the fact that we are so open. I am concerned sometimes that we we have a little bit too much excite centralization in the funding space.

I would like to see more organizations doing this. And on the other, I like see more donations coming in from profitable big crane companies that very important to keep the space going because open sources, the reason we got here and open sources going to be continuing to push that forward. So we are supporting that dollar.

All we can. Has there been a project or thing that you've seen come across your desk? Has really excited you there .

projects on the O G. One that is really excited me from the beginning is B, T, C. Pace server.

We found down from the early stages. I've always been excited about what they've done. I was caught up in the hype.

I sot ah for bit pay and those before open actually I never since then, i've been really happy that we've been able to consistently support them. Yeah I I look forward to what they are doing. They just release that version o point two point zero um which with a lot of call features and customizations.

I'm looking forward to that. But the other project in this space I like a lot is um the validating lightning signer. Yes, this allows things like breeze as to because you're able to lightning you able to sign lightning transactions as a non custodial, no, without needing all the resources on on your own laptop, right, you can have them cloud somewhere but still have suffered n control over your funds in a lightning environment.

So i'm excited about that. There is like over two hundred projects right now currently funding. So the unfair committed, I tried to pick two winners, but all excited about everything we're doing there.

amazing. And it's in from a from a far for somebody who's seeing these like BTC pace server from the outside, they don't necessarily know how it's being funded or how a lot of that work has been done, where that resources came from. And so perfect example of the power of open sats and what you guys are doing.

So hats off to you. And it's very exciting to know like a person like yourself, is one of the board there helping to make just sound solid decisions? Yeah ahead.

I don't get out another part to IT because we just piped two months ago launched to the education initiative. Education intiative focuses specifically on projects that are either trying to increase awareness or crease adoption or increase education in the big coin space across developers. And you know, the one of one welcome to bitcoin crowd.

So, you know, we're trying to fund teachers, educators, developers. I want to fund IT developers. The examples out give would be like B2C plu s. I just had e cash in germany the other day. And those are the kind of functions and spaces that we want to be able to continue to push.

That is one thing to create a project and the this open code and make something cool, but it's another thing to teach developers to come up in the space. And then there are the next generation that continues to make even cooler projects. And we want to make sure that we're building a hundred year, thousand year on timeline of of work. You're not just A A ten year timing, and that's I think the education initiative helps to achieve that goal.

So you had mentioned earlier that you are working on a business of your own, tell us the name of the business, what IT is and then most importantly, tell us from the users perspective what value prop you're solving for. Kind of explain IT as a person's listening to IT. If they were going to get something out of this product, tell them what that value prop is.

okay. So of my companies, flash and we're bringing bitcoin, the carribean, connecting the caribe, using bitcoin. I thought to give you the value, proper and elevator speech IT would be that if you're a jamaican or from the common islands or many other islands in the cribs, how do you buy today? The usual answer you gonna get is, oh, we can't we don't know anything about bitcoin or we heard about, but we can't buy IT.

And that's because in the islands, like the king and islands and like jaco, if you have a bank account there or did IT card there, it's impossible for you to buy bitcoin. You can go on by and you can go on coin base. You don't have cash up.

IT doesn't exist in those islands. There is just no way to buy bitcoin. How people do IT is they go find a friend in the U.

S. Or they find a friend in new girl and they say, hey, buy me some big going on. Why I transfer the money we're bringing on into the islands of people with jazan currency. Are any other island that we go to? They can directly buy the coin there with cash over their bank account, over their debit card, with low fees and they'll have the same access that everybody else in the world has lived to buy self bitcoin, unused for transactions, everyday payments and remitted don't forget admitted um it's a big one.

Do you think that .

this is us we're doing we are already lodged.

Oh, sorry. Do you think that the the reason that it's not there is just because it's so bifricated as for as like which island is associated with some of the other countries, is that why it's just kind of lagging or what's caused this?

I think that might be a secondary reason. I think the primary reason is really the current climate of the banking system of the crib, an islands compared to the banking system of the U. S.

And europe. So we talk about the financial action task force use unelected group of officials that are putting people on a great list, or White list or black list. If your assange tied country, they've put a lot of the criminal on a great list.

And that great alist means that there is intense K, Y, C. And additional regulatory restrictions that are being put on the banking systems in jamaa and the common islands. And if you are an international company, IT makes IT very hard to do business there.

If you are an international company like coin base, you try to accept a jack, an bank card. And the jamaican banking system is required to do additional K Y C. They can't just approve the transaction.

And that, that makes IT really hard to do business. So I think that's where that the stunted growth has happened. I think it's really regulatory.

I think that is the backdrop of all this island used to be from france and this island used to be a colony of the U. K. And you know whose regulations should be really following that is a bit of the confusion.

I think it's a literal regulatory grey area, which means and we're on a great list. So we're in a great spot. I would look for her to be different, and I think i'm pushing for that. I think as I bring companies like flash to the forefront, show them what a regulator's framework would look like in this space and they can create their own legislation, approve their own legislation, and I think that will bring us into the twenty first century like faster than every right.

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back to the show. First of i'll tell everybody kind of where you're at with the value prop in the business. Can somebody log on to flash today and by bitcoin? Or are you months out talk us about the time line of for you out with the business?

sure. So I like to say that we are in the pilot phase right now. You can downloader up if you're not in the U.

S. You can downloader up on the up store on the players ore or you can downer directly using our A P, K. You can log on.

And once you do a manual K, Y, C, you can buy. And so bitcoin today, if you are in jumaa, we have five physical locations you can go to. You can just hand over cash and by bacon today as well, or use your debit card and buy.

Well, we planned to cover the element locations, of course, by the end of the year, by the end of twenty twenty five. Also, if you are in the camin islands next year, you planned to have our first few locations there where you can buy the line with the camin islands. And the the end goal of this is to be able to say you can buy the on cash or in your APP.

You can buy IT by depressing a button at your bank account, or you can type your credit card and buy IT as well. And we are probably in the last now december will be our last month of pilot and then we go public in january in jaco. Or any way you can walk in in by bitcoin or download. Well.

how exciting. That's awe as an entrepreneur. What's been your hardest chAllenge? Building all of this .

two main chAllenges. The first chAllenge, e has been finding dedicated good resources to help me build IT. You know, bitcoin is one of those things that it's a passion project, right? You really have to get IT understand the value prop of bitcoin and then build upon IT.

And finding resources has been difficult in the beginning. Um I have to thank companies like layer for talent, this recruiting firm that helped me to you find amazing talent when I was struggling to find IT myself. And then the second part would be probably the adoption in terms of a knowledge of the people that are going to be using IT.

When you talk about the coin, the people in java, they immediately think all way. The second is not that same thing, that world coin. Wasn't there something at F, T, X, that's all they think about IT first, right? yeah.

So getting over that hump is probably a big chAllenge that we've had to address. And we've addressed IT two different ways. One, by creating community in the in the carribean called island bitcoin.

We can go to meet up. You can learn things. There's no pressure.

Hear about what is? Hear about the history of IT here. And then thing is, in the APP itself, we've created educational models. So you can learn about the coin as you using the APP. No, in a very hands of very non pressure format.

And we're hoping that this combination of education and to be allow people to adopt Better but I would say that that's probably the biggest chAllenge. Biggest chAllenge is getting people to open up their mind and especially people who are in the islands not exactly flush with directionally funding, not exactly close with with three time to think about this. You know if you have one hundred dollars and one hundred dollars pass to pay your right next month, then you hear something my and you're not going to take the time to figure out if its not.

Yeah right. So we're trying to make IT is easy and is critically ble the people to be able to decide themselves. Okay, this is good. And I want to learn more.

I suspect that you buy into this idea that were on the precipice of a bull market coming here in the coming year, too. Do you think, if true, do you think that that's going to help alleviate some of these fx concerns or these like all these things that kind of happen that on the last cycle that are chAllenges from an education steam point for people to understand bitcoin or understand what's happening?

Do you think some of that goes away if we go through another cycle and people see this? Or is this something that is going to continue to perpetuate itself over and over and over again? What where do you see this from a community and education standpoint kind of move forward?

My first year in bitcoin was around two thousand and seventeen. I was not right at the end of the block size. Wars have been through two cycles are in terms feeling how people respond. And I think we might be in for a couple more cycles like that.

I not really a full belief of the super cycle theory or the you know immediate hyper quantization, but every cycle there is always a flood of people that come in and then a few always stay to say, I get IT. And this has changed my mind as to how money work, but they will. I think we still have a couple more F T X cycles to go, not F T X.

It's probably gonna a more, you know, nation state level. Or what is IT the risks or the the size of the camera ball, what I want to use here. Maybe like the .

speculators are going to come in and kind of bid the Price and they don't even understand necessarily why there there. They just know that their neighbor made a bunch of money. And so that's why they come and they they leave just as quickly because they came chasing money. And not necessarily the fundamentals, right?

Exactly, exactly. And then a small percentage of people that, that do stay and stay for the fundamentals. And and i'm expecting that, but i'm also expecting that during this, the next power that happens, there's going to be a scaling chAllenge to solve.

You know, as a company, sure, you get a couple thousand sales and then a problem happens. Million people are wanting. I think that's an important problem to be ready for.

And then, because they are able to solve our problem and make IT easy, you have more people that say, more people that say, oh, this was a good experience. I do want to learn more about bacon. Tested this wide net, right? I trying to catch that when .

the bullet market happens. What's h some of the interesting things that uh, the people working in your physical stores have heard or been asked? A real curious what that's like because you're the first person I think i've ever talked to that has a physical location that people can come into to buy bitcoin, and i'm sure you're see in here all sorts of things. So is there any interesting comments or funny stories or anything that's worthy of a highlight?

Well, first, I want to make a clarification that the stores aren't ours, particularly we partner with existing business is so we have a school market become a fast we all on flash points because, you know, it's flashingly, you can find. And so they going in the supermarket, they have a gas station in both bayport land. And then we also have another supermarket instance anzai.

And then a restaurant also invent anba, so and then a pizza all pizz in, kink's on. So those are five locations. And each one of those occasions people were going, and they would either just buy food there, right, or buy drinks.

And then some would actually come in in and say, hey, top of my I wallet with some bitcoin and each one of those people that go in, they've already been brief. They're this pilot face told what's happening, they going and it's mostly comments about the technology and how small if IT is and easy compared to trying to use their debit card, use cash and get change. We haven't really heard anyone come in and say what is big thing or there hasn't any kind of that, I think.

But I think we're gonna get those comments in january when we have people walked me off the street and just try and then I can give you more yeah probably really good stories about IT, but right now, which kind of focused on you know making IT work as easy as possible people and iterating on the product. So it's seamless. When we go live in january.

we have a ton of new people showing up to the space right now that are interested in learning what's like. One of your key highlights are things that you think are important for them to understand or that you would like to impress upon somebody who showing up to bitcoin for the first time right now.

someone have two different answers for you. okay? The first time is going to be for someone in jamaica who is shown for the first thing. I always tell them the same thing.

I'm onna say, look, there has been a lot of cans in the past, especially because jamaica is used to that that I hate safe this way. But we have a culture of, you know, people in certain areas of you make a scamming, like calling people in the U. S.

Tires, telling them that they can be have one a lot of and they have to give someone it's it's terrible. And because of that, if you tell people anything about technology, they immediately start thinking is a scam. Um how should I be careful? So my my first advice piece of advice.

So anyone in jamaica is just take a step back, keep an open mind and try to think from further principles what you're hearing, right, if you think is a scam afterwards, totally understand, you know. But step away from all of the things you've learned and start a fresh and see if you can learn something new today. That's the advice for jawans.

For anyone else in the world. The big piece of advice, I would say, is look into the technology behind bitcoin. You know, I mean, we talk about the economics all the time.

We talk about the potential for bitcoin can do. But the way I really understand big to the point where I wanted to work in IT, being able to understand the technology behind this, an engineering answer. You know, once I did the math and I realized that not only is this thing bulletproof, you know, but it's also a discovery.

Know the same way that we change the entire method of doing math to become infinitely more efficient may be not infinitely, but more efficient just because we discovered one number. And I feel we have the same type of of discovery here where we discovered something that is not a digital scarcity that didn't exist before. And now we have exponential improvements in almost every other space we study. So I would recommend that people try to understand the technology behind bitcoin and then go from there and see where your brain takes you.

I love that of speaking of the engineering. What would you say is the most fascinating aspect of bitcoin that just kind of like blow your mind is that the having schedule is, is that the two weak difficulty adjustment is there are anything in particular and IT could be even on lightning or anything in bitcoin that. From an engineering stamp point to kind of blow your mind and then talk about IT and explain IT to the listeners that that they understand the new ones of what you're talking about.

OK, i'm probably gonna be the affording here because you you're probably used to hearing the different types of or bitcoin you discovery are the different things that built up to make big coin core and big coin the biton White paper. But my most exciting thing right now is e cash.

I think that e cash to give the listeners of background is not new, right? David? Tom, I don't want to say that invented, I say discovered e cash back in the nineteen eighties, wrote paper about IT, brought IT to the different banks and organizations.

See all the history behind IT. And he kind of failed back then because there is nothing behind IT that was desensitized to push in forward without a centralized party derAiling IT. So now there's bitcoin.

And if you put e action up of bitcoin, you get this amazing new technology that provides absolute privacy, right? IT doesn't give you the same non custodial feel or non custodial properties, but he gives you absolute privacy and he gives you near zero transactions. And then the part that excites me the most, I mean.

I could use a zero fee on the transformer zero.

Thank you. yeah. And then the part of exciting me the most that I want to get to excited enables, for the first time, truly offline payments, offline payments from the center and on the receiver.

And i'll tell you a story just two weeks ago. It's been happening for two weeks now in jamaica, important in one of the two locations that I have that i'm running flash. The powers is on, but the internet is not working.

We have two internet providers to make up both D, G, sell and flow, and they're both out. So if you're in that city, you cannot use the internet on your laptop or nothing, right? Your cell phone reception is not working either.

So you can make any phone calls. You can use your day plan. So now you have merchants in the city that have the, you know, via upon your cell machines, their bank point of sale machines, and they can use them.

People walked me with regular debit cards and cannot buy anything in the store. If you don't find an A, T, M and get cash and walk into that store, you can buy anything to eat. And then that you gets worse.

That city, both way does not have a bank in IT. You you have to travel on our north, get to the closest bank. IT has one A T M, no two A T M in that city, and the A T M are out. why? Because is out and the A T M used the internet and the cell phone service to connect to the banks.

So now if you're in that city as of two weeks now, you have to travel an hour to go to your clothes bank, and you have to get cash is ago and come back into the city to be able to live. So that's a serious problem. And e cash is the first acknowledge that i've seen that actually solves the problem on both things.

Do you can not transacted with your phone using blue too, though? Or even just Q, R, go on a camera without needing the internet, without needing infrastructure hind IT. And i'm super excited for that to proliferate and know the early stages of the cash. But once that becomes the enterprise level solution, mad like we're going to solve so many problems in the third world.

technically, what's happening here from an engineering standpoint is quite fascinating as far as the way that this gets signed between these two devices and how the ledger is obviously eventually updated, whether there is a connection to the internet by either the center or the receiver. I can't talk to the new ones of IT. I've had to explain to me.

But unfortunately, I can, off the cuff go into the new ones of how that's all happening through the encryption of like which share between the two devices. But this is mine allowing types. Can you do a thread? Can you talk to you a but yeah .

ahead yeah not use a couple of analogies. But what is basically happening is the e cash creates a system, almost an internal system, that is, I will call IT, a layer two point five right on top of bitcoin. And what IT does is IT locks bitcoin into a mole, but IT basically locks your bitcoin into that wallet.

And then from there mints e cash tokens that are equivalent in domination to that bitcoin. So if you have one bitcoin, you have a hundred million sites of e cash. And then from there you're able to distribute that among different people using charming and tokens. And these are actual bits of data, like just legal hashes of data that aren't on a blockchain. They are on the network, not on any kind of you know lightning channel.

And the way they work is what would be similar to, uh, envelope, right? If you member back in the back and days, you might have an envelope, and that envelope has the copy ce of carbon copy paper inside of IT, right? So what he does is inside of our carbon copy paper, you write on exactly what the amount is.

You close the envelope so the bank can see that, but the bank can stump IT. And what that that stamp is a is a signature, right? It's a public private key signature that the min is using the stamp and say we authorized this as an actual payment.

The bank doesn't know it's in IT, but the bank said that you you have IT now that envelope your data, you can hand IT to anybody you want, that is the e cash. And if you handed IT to somebody, they can see the buying signature on IT A K A signature ic, and they can have IT in their hand thing. I have this cash.

And to your point, whenever they get back online in the future a day, two days later, they can hand IT back to the say, hey, I need you to redeem for me and reading means, but this is true. Take IT and give me a brand new copy of IT. That is, you know, sign h your name to say, no, I have each.

H, I can spend. So that kind of be the overall analogy of IT. The man doesn't always have to be connected to the wallet. There are no accounts per say, like you don't have to sign up, put them. All you have to do is off the cash on you and then you can redeem IT for a new cash, whether you want.

One of one thing I would also say about IT is that whenever you have these cash e cash talking to your passing around, there is no transaction fee involved in that, right? The only thing you're using this data to pass IT around. And when I say data, not internet, you can pass to be a blue.

You can ass Q R T camera. You can even pass IT right down if you have. And you can write IT down on a piece paper, IT might be long. You can do IT. And that's exciting part about IT.

The thing that I found most fascinating with these e cash payments is how fast IT takes place. So even know we were using the lighting network right now. We want to shoot SAT through this video feed through A Q R code.

It's really fast, like really, really fast, like you'll see this screen turn Green within a second or two, but this is near instantaneous like I mean, whenever i've scanned IT in the past, I mean this is literally like that second IT immediately the screen goes Green and its IT like you're moving out like faster than tapping a VISA payment or a master card payment. IT is crazy fast. So well, I love that highlight. That is an amazing, amazing highlight for people to hear about .

the point for you. Yeah, even on lightning, it's super fast, but there is a limit. How many lighting payments you can have at one time, right? So if you are on the screen and you have your Q R code up and let's say a thousand people try to send you lighting at the same time, you're gonna have some delays there because even the lighting network has an upper limit with e cash.

People can sending you millions of payments and they're all gone to go through instantly because they're just sending you data. So it's like it's a step factor in scaling in terms of what payments can be in the future. So it's not just about the offline payments, it's the scale.

Well, if you want to move to a billion people in and payments or multiple billions of people, I think e cash is the way I think lightning is A B to b glue. E cash is gonna. One of the many things that lightning is connecting to to bring bacon to billions ah .

from a payments. So obviously, a lot of the stuff we were talking about the yeah early in the show is much more store of value based. Now all these comments that were just for the audience that to keep track where we're at, a lot of this is the technology of, like, hey, I want to go buy a cup of coffee.

This is how we suspect a lot of this is really an evolve in the future. Red, this is amazing. I love this conversation for anybody in the corbyn. If you're wanting the bike coin, I think you know the source to go to with flash, give people a hand off of the website or where they can use you said earlier they can download IT out right off the APP store where they searched flash bitcoin. Or what would be the best way to search and find IT?

yeah. So you can go our website. That's easier way. If you go to get flash that I O you'll see the website there will have the links to download on the up store or the play store or your A P K. directly.

If you aren't the up store, the play store and you're not in the U. S, I have to stress that because you're not inside the U. S, get, you can just type flash, send spend and save or l and flash, and you should see IT pop up. We also have our own discord group.

If you are in discord, you can for discrete ver IT should be also a link on our website um where else can you find us that might be IT for our own master, of course? Um I forgot to tell you that monster is central part of flash. You get an when you sign up with flash and you can shot inside.

yes. Oh, wow, that is. That's a huge thing. We needed to .

talk about their .

real fast. Let me just explain why I think this is a really big deal and cracked me if missing anything or you you want to add onto a dread bit by incorporating the. Ster and pub you're mixing uh social media desensitize social media with payments.

And here's the great thing, as I could go look up, I could go on to my whatever noster apple the uh access the the central social media I could find read real fast just through a search. If I want to pay him a hundred box for whatever, maybe we just split dinner together, I could pay him back whether he wanted received the payment or not, I could find him there and I could APP the payment over. And IT sounds like this is all going to be incorporated into your application, the time.

which is really exciting. Wow, the yeah a social sign to limitations. You know you might have people that are in the U. S.

And sending money home and the people home, oh, they feel like they they have to ask for the money and no one really wants to ask money every month. It's is a very proud thing to do. So they have to actually push for that payment to come.

If you open a consistent social interaction in the apples, somebody you're sending them pictures of your family, you're showing your good grades. Now your on your uncle in the U. S.

Can see these up your money because dicing with them, there is no active ask for money anymore. It's just a consistent flow that you get because you are sharing your life with people. And I think that kind of change in the interaction can actually change the important world terms of how people get money. Instead of happened to wait for IT and walk into western union and you do all the embarrass things to get IT yeah excited for us.

Yeah, that is faster. While we were talking, I pulled this, the kind of demo this for people. Hopefully this, hopefully this works.

I looked up, read on my phone while we were just talking right here. This is all, you know, spontaneous. I put a thousand sets into my phone, and let's see if this a pushes through.

And this is again, on the lightning. Now work, look at that. I just sent you a thousand cats. And can you confirm whether you receive thousand cats or not into eype the coin wallet?

Yeah, I didn't even asked for that. Let see if it's on your get.

L B is what i'm saying.

Let's see. So I mean.

this this is the power of being able to just look somebody up and it's like twitter or at least the interface that I was just using as a lot like twitter um this noster protocol. But i'm able to find him. I'm able to I didn't have to ask him for his bank account information typically be like all here's my account number, here's my routing number, all this stuff to be able to send a micro payment.

What's a thousand that's it's like fitty sense or something. And I would just zapp ed that over the call while we were sitting here talking. And I just kind of shows you the power of some of this stuff that's coming down the pipe. I don't know if you just now .

is an extension or there IT is I just got IT yes, to my extension online. You popped up a minute ago, one thousand six.

Thank you for the tip. Yes, yes. There you go. And here's what's amazing. You are outside of the united states.

And assuming right now, I in fact, I don't even know where you're at and that's a power though it's a super powerful thing to kind of think of being able to send an international payment micro size fifty cents. He got all of IT happened within seconds, and you didn't even tell me any details at all. I just knew your name and I looked IT up so and if .

you you're in jamaica and you did that, someone going to a local flash point and buy a Candy with IT or anything else you want IT to yeah that's that's the power of just instant payments and instant yeah crazy .

times upon us read all hey, sir, thank you for this. Ah anything else you want to highlight or a point people towards I think you gave somewhat of a hand off. We have all that in the showed tes for people. But anything, any final, those are comments.

Yeah, I would say if you're in jamaica, look us up. Island bitcoin. We have monthly meeting ups every thursday. There is going to be at summit, which is a really cool place to hang out and drink and play games. Or sometimes we have them at the A C hotel.

So just contact us, a web cycle island big in 点 com。 And also if you are looking for flash, it's get flash that I O we're on twitter and master. And then of course, if you are developing a big point space, look at open sides.

We are constantly giving our grants, and we're looking for a great developers like you don't feel like your project is too Young or you know not the right one, just apply the application is the beginning of the conversation, not the end. And then we take IT from there and looking forward to talking to all of you. One love.

Thank you so much for coming on the show today. dad.

I really enjoyed IT. I enjoyed IT to president. I am appreciate you, me.

And no, thank you for listening to T. I, P, make sure to follow big coin fundamentals on your favorite podcast. P and never is out on episodes.

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