Leveraging Performance Psychology with 3-time Gold Medalist Kerri Walsh Jennings
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If you want to do more and spend less like Uber, 8x8, and Databricks Mosaic, take a free test drive of OCI at allthehacks.com slash oracle. That's allthehacks.com slash oracle. Allthehacks.com slash oracle. Hello and welcome to another episode of All the Hacks, a show about upgrading your life, money, travel, all while spending less and saving more. I'm Chris Hutchins, and I am so excited to have you here.

Okay, so today's conversation is going to be really fantastic because I'm talking with Kerry Walsh-Bennings, who is widely regarded as the greatest female beach volleyball player of all time.

She holds the beach volleyball record for most Olympic medals, three gold and a bronze, most career victories, and has the highest earnings of any female player. She's been a pro for over 20 years. She's won three world championships. She's played in over 250 tournaments in 30 countries. And while she's still competing, she and her husband, Casey, also a pro volleyball player, started P1440 in 2018, which is a digital platform exclusively built around the sport and culture of beach volleyball. ♪

Honestly, I'm a bit intimidated here, but I'm also really excited. I know it'll be a great conversation. So let's jump in. Harry, thank you for being here.

You nailed that intro. High fives to you, Chris. That's a really good start. And obviously, there's no need to be intimidated. I think in person, that might make more sense because I'm so big, but not via Zoom. Yeah. Well, when we met, I think it was about 2018 as well. We were at a conference. I believe you were drinking some type of mushroom tea. Does that sound right? Probably. Probably for a stigmatic lion's mane or something to get my brain going. Yeah. I would say most people would find that an unusual beverage choice. Oh, they would?

- That's who you hang out with. That's all my friends drink. - Yeah, and is that, would you put yourself in the category of people who like to experiment with interesting things that might improve your mind and your health? - Yeah, Chris, I, A, similar to you, like I am on this mission for self optimization, self mastery. Like I wanna feel so good in my days.

And I'm very sensitive when I'm not feeling good. As an athlete, we're so trained to suck it up and carry on and go through walls and my shoulders falling off, but I'm going to keep playing. But as a human, A, that's just not sustainable. I think it's admirable to a certain extent, but I think it's kind of dumb too. But as a human, I just, I want to live a long life and I want to feel good in my life. And so when it comes time to wellness and nutrition and these things that I can lean on to better optimize my system and therefore my energy and therefore my mood and therefore my relationships, I'm going to keep playing.

I'm like all in. And so, yeah, I follow a lot of people on social media, listen to a lot of podcasts and everything I kind of digest is to help me improve my life. Wow. Okay. So I definitely want to make sure we spend some time in this conversation about some of those things. But I want to go back to some of the early days first. So I know you grew up in a family of sports. Your dad played baseball, basketball. Your mom played volleyball.

Do you think you ever expected to be the pro athlete you became? I expected to be a pro athlete, like 100%. My first big dream was to be the first female pitcher in the major leagues. That didn't work out. You know, I played baseball with my brother and my dad as a coach until I was 14. I love baseball so much. And then my second dream was to be the first female player in the NBA.

didn't work out, but I loved basketball. I played throughout high school. And then when I found volleyball, I just knew I wanted to play it as long as I could. And so I think growing up in the family that I did, I knew I wanted to compete. I knew I wanted to be physical and I had no idea it would be beach volleyball, certainly. David Epstein wrote this book Range recently about how generalists are successful. And he compared Federer and Tiger Woods and Tiger Woods was

all golf all the time. And Federer's parent mom, I think was a, was a tennis player. And she was like, no, you got to play other sports. Do you think that generalist approach you had as a, as a kid playing different sports helped with volleyball?

Oh my gosh. Yes. Range is like one of the most valuable things you can have because then you just add more tools to your toolkit. When you're challenging yourself in different sports, it's not just your body that's being challenged. It's your nervous system. It's your thinking. It's your problem solving. It's the way to navigate what's in front of you. And yes, absolutely. And I talked to so many parents and athletes today, Chris, who are like their kids are being challenged.

almost forced to make a decision when they're 10 years old, what sport do you want to do forever? And what position in the sport? So it's Tiger Woods is the unicorn of all unicorns. He started when he was three. I love that book, by the way, it's an amazing book. Tiger, he's the anomaly. And I think for the broader range, big picture scope of life,

developing range by playing multiple sports, by playing in a band, by being in a big club, whatever it is, developing range because you try new and different things is just essential. And for me, I think that's one of the big reasons why I'm still going because I train that way. I'm not just, I'm not a linear person. I'm always curious. My trainers are very curious and they're very leading edge, but very traditional as well. And so I'm always being challenged in different ways and my competency and capabilities just keep expanding.

If I think back to your childhood and mine being different, so many parents, non-athletes, they're grinding and hustling every day at work. But I think it's unusual for them to bring that home and their kids don't actually see that hustle, that ambition because it stays at the office. And with your parents being athletes, there was no way to hide it. Did that have a huge impact on you? And does that have an impact on your kids?

Oh my gosh. I love that you mentioned that because I swear to God, like one of the best gifts my parents have ever given me outside of their committed loving relationship for over 40 years and being very present in my life is the fact that I got to witness them

competing with all of their hearts and all of their joys and all of their misery. Like my brother and I, and I have two little sisters, we were with them competing all the time, running around in softball fields and the bowling leagues and volleyball games and basketball. Like my parents are intense competitors.

And their whole family would compete together. They played on a softball team called Family Feud. And my mom's one of eight. So it was all the siblings and then all of the in-laws. And they never lost. And there would be fistfights. There would be shit talking. There would be like everything that's the best and the worst in sports happened. And I got to witness it.

And then we talk about it. I'd hear my parents debriefing on the game and we go to pizza after they get pizza and beers and I'd be listening to the stories they told. And it just, it got wired. It's in my DNA already, but it got wired in my consciousness. Like competition is so fun when it's just,

Even when it's hard, it's so fun. So to me, that's one of the best gifts they ever gave me. Absolutely. Do you think there's a way that someone who's not a pro athlete who has a traditional nine to five office job can bring that home to their family as well? Because I know so many people who are so ambitious and competitive in work, but I don't think their kids ever see that.

Yeah, I think I don't I don't know because I haven't lived that life yet. You know, the nine to five and more traditional job. If I'm fired up about something, whether it's a Zoom call or work I'm doing for 1440, even though it's not competition, if I'm fired up, I bring that home and I talk to my kids about if I have a hard day, I talk to him about if I have a problem.

I talk to him about it and because part of my process is speaking things out loud, you know, and my kids are geniuses. So I lean on their wisdom and my husband as well. And so I think one of the beautiful things we do in our family is that we share a lot. We're really emotional humans. So there's ups and downs and everything that we do and our kids are involved. So if I have a great day at 1440, we had a new hire and we're kicking butt and we just pivoted out of this tough situation.

They get fired up for me. So I share it. And I think it's really important not only to celebrate the little wins, even if it might seem part of the mundane part of your life. I just think it's important because you're choosing to spend time doing it. And so I think if you can bring enthusiasm and bring that to your family, that's valuable. It's a win. A win is a win. It doesn't matter what uniform you're wearing or not.

Yeah, my daughter's only 16 months, but I talked to Sunil Gupta, who wrote this book, Backable. And he said, before you do a pitch at work, practice. And he's like, practice in front of your kids. And I feel like there's this big ultimate kind of hack for your children, which is just show them the ambition and the hustle that you have, even if it's at the office. There's so many people that say leave work at home. You can leave some of work at home, but bring home part of it and show your kids how passionate you are about things or if they're side projects as well.

Totally. You know, I think that's so important. I think it's just important to engage and your work life is a huge part of your life. And so not that you want to bring everything home. But yeah, I think it's important to share what's going on in your office with your family, because it's going to give them a better picture of who you are, what you're going through. And that brings compassion and a kick in the butt if needed and a high five if needed. So it's all good stuff.

younger generations today. So if I was a young person or a young woman wanting to play beach volleyball, they have you to look up to, right? You created this career with massive career. But I don't think my record in the 90s, beach volleyball was not a lucrative career financially by any means. How did you push through that and forge a path with no one like yourself to look up to?

Well, you know, I fancy myself an athlete. You know, I mean, I know I'm a woman. I know that I have that label, but I just there were definitely pioneers before me is what I'm trying to say. You know, if you know beach volleyball or volleyball, you know, Karch Karai, three-time gold medalist, Mike Dodd, Mike Whitmarsh. Like there were pioneers before me that made a great living, that were Olympians, that

did amazingly internationally and domestically and had this beautiful career. So even though they weren't women doing this, I had those role models and that's a big gift. And then when I came out to the beach in 2001, after I left Stanford in my first Olympics and paired up with Misty, it was just like lightning in a bottle, like the perfect storm with regard to timing,

partnership, kind of the shift in culture where female athletes were being a little bit more celebrated and honored and Missy and I dominated. And so I feel like just the fact that I always just wanted to be an athlete for athlete's sake, not labeled anyway, I think I just see inspiration in everything and that's how I'm wired anyway. So if a boy is doing it just because I'm a girl, I'm not thinking I can't do that. Something that was a little bit harder was when I wanted to have kids and not a lot of professional female athletes did that while they're still competing.

And so that was something a little bit different, but my mom showed me, you know, my mom had eight kids. She carried triplets for her sister. She was playing softball, like diving, sliding in the third base while she was pregnant, having a kick-ass job, selling real estate, being very present with my father and making it and having four kids of her own.

You know, so I saw that in action and I've just, I've been so blessed to have these authentic role models, people who lead themselves first, who follow their passions and they align their passions with their personal lives, with their families and their relationships. So it's been, I've been very blessed in that way. Yeah. I mean, I've heard a lot of people talk about kind of the finances of

beach volleyball, right? Professional beach volleyballs are not making what are not making what pro NFL players and, you know, basketball players are making. How did that factor in early on? I imagine I heard you say once on you were on the indoor national team and you're making like a thousand dollars a month. Did you do you need side hustles? Like how do you make the bills? How do the bills get paid? How do you make ends meet? How do you pay for trainers in a career where it's not as lucrative as other

- This is such a long conversation. You know, when I was playing indoor volleyball on the indoor team, making a thousand bucks a month, I got a raise to 1200 bucks and I was stoked. But when you're on the indoor team, they pay for housing, they pay for travel, your coaches are paid for. So that's all in one little kit. So I was broke, but I didn't have anywhere to spend money. And I lived in Colorado Springs

where like a fun Friday night was going to Walmart and like walking the aisles. So I didn't, and I just wanted to win. You know, I was just focused on training and my life was very simple, not to disrespect Walmart or Colorado Springs because I loved it. But beach volleyball, it's, you pay to work, basically. We train Monday through Friday. You play on the weekends.

You pay Monday through Friday for your coaches, for your strength coach, for your nutritionist, whatever you have. And then on the weekends, you're hoping to recoup that money by your prize money. And I can name probably maybe 10 athletes around the world that...

can only do beach volleyball and have it be their living. And it's not because of prize money, it's because of endorsement deals. But the endorsement deals on the same time compared to other sports are just pennies to the dollar on the dollar. And that's something with through 1440, my company and just through my life, I really want to elevate the marketplace for volleyball in general, not just beach, but indoor as well, because the sport is so wonderful. The lifestyle is incredible. It's so sexy. It's family. It's dynamic. It's finesse. It's everything.

For some reason, the marketplace hasn't really aligned to us. We're the number one Olympic sport.

indoor and beach combined. Every four years, it gets the highest ratings. So once every four years, we are the best thing in the world. And then we go away. But for me, I think winning lends more opportunities. I have a lot of side hustles. I am an athlete. I do speaking engagements. I have my endorsements. So photo shoots, all these different obligations, media obligations that I have that bring in the money. And for me, as I go, I just want to keep opening more doors to revenue in my life. I don't want just one.

Not that that's wrong, but I just, I want more diversity in my life. So I can't do anything every day. I fade away. So I like diversity in my life and my money-making opportunities. And so that's what I'm encouraging and inviting in my life is more revenue streams coming in.

Yeah. It's a theme I see now is lots of people wanting lots of different side hustles. Were there any side hustles early on when you didn't have your endorsement deals that were fun and good to share? I had two jobs early on. And then at some point, my endorsement deals picked up. But I was a dog walker for about maybe three months, maybe six. But it was so stressful.

The woman I took over for, she got hurt on the job. She was walking two of the, one of the dogs that were the, like the Swiss Alps, like they're huge dogs. Bernese mountain dogs. I think so. So two ginormous ones, right? And she's walking them and a cross crosses, a cat crosses the alley. They take off and drag her and she tore both ACLs. And I was like, I'm an athlete. This is what I'm walking into. What am I doing? And so that was one job, but it paid well. People pay a lot of money for their pets and

And then I worked in a kid's shoe store and it wasn't necessarily for the money, even though I needed money because I live very simply, but it was just, I needed something to do and I needed to contribute in my life and be with people. So those are the two solutions I had. And then obviously camps and clinics and coaching, I've done a fair amount of that.

But I'm glad those days are over, really. Yeah, I love how resourceful you are. And I also love that dog walking is stressful when you're also an Olympian who's played on the world stage. Well, I only had, I think, two Olympics under my belt at that point. So I was a rookie. But no, you know, it's like, my God, these uncontrollable animals. I do have a fun Olympics question. So you worked hard, right? Three gold medals, but it was across three Olympics, four years apart.

I have to ask in 2008, Michael Phelps did the same thing, three gold medals in a little over 24 hours. And I know it took you three Olympics and I know you're so supportive of team USA, but it has to be a little frustrating when someone can get three golds in like almost a day and it takes you three Olympics. It's just as well. It is, you know, I, I don't want to be a swimmer. If I, if I had a big enough issue with that, I'd be a swimmer and I'd try to go beat Michael Phelps's records. But no, you know, that's,

It's just that's why the different sports you respect them for different reasons. When I think the longevity in our sport is gnarly. And if you can be a high performer and have sustained excellence and keep winning over a decade, like that's pretty unusual. Michael has done his next level unusual, but he has different opportunities than I have. I would never get mad at Michael.

for having 19 or more gold medals and everything he's done. That man's incredible. I would love to sit and talk to him about that because that's just a whole different, whole different ballgame. - We need to start a podcast. - Yeah. I have some thoughts, but I don't know. You gotta keep, you gotta, like you do so well. Like what did you say? You're in the top what percent of podcasts? - Yeah, I mean, the show's been doing great. We're in the top half a percent.

I don't even know what that means. That's a gold medal. So that's incredible. But you, because you don't have acid and I just need to, you know, all these things require preparation and commitment. And if I do it, I'll be inspired by you and want to break that top three or top percent. But yeah, maybe down the road.

You mentioned gold medals. I got to ask, where do you keep the gold medals? Are they in a safe? Do you just keep them on the wall? No, they're in a little cute bag in my closet just waiting to be brought to an appearance or shown to kids or something. I gave my first one to my parents, the one from Athens, and my dad gave it back two years later. I was

no, it was really yours. You guys earned it. And he's no, it's just sitting in her safe and you'll, you'll put it to better use. So yeah, the collection is together, but I feel like it's, I feel like it's a little bit short. I really do want one more, but I'm just trying to figure out the retirement game or not. Yeah. One more. There's an opportunity coming, right? There is. Yeah. I gave myself until June to figure out if I'm retired or not. I just needed some space. Cause I don't have a hundred percent clarity. And I don't know if you feel the same, but like I'm at this point in my life where I can't,

Like I need something to be at a hundred percent F yes, or it's a no, you know, especially with something that requires so much of your heart and soul and sacrifice and leaving family. Like I need this to be a 100%

percent plus yes and I'm just a little bit on the fence and so I gave myself tell June to figure it out but my heart wants it Chris and I don't know if that's just the athlete in me that's never gonna die or if this dream is just I just believe and I still I'm still hungry I'm still physical I still feel great it's a life side of my life that would get in the way and not get in the way but that would you know make me choose retirement so we'll see it's

Is it more about pushing for another gold or is it more about ending on a gold? And yeah. That's a great question. I really do believe in fairytale endings and I want it. Like, so I can just say that, but I just feel, and I don't want to end on a bad note. Like this past quad, like I lost myself so much last year and I just literally forgot how to play volleyball. Like emotionally, I couldn't handle it. And it was, it was so many things I don't want to get into, but you know, it just interfered with what I do best and,

And that's a bummer. And so there's part of that that I want to rectify. But more than that, I love it. And I believe that there's more and better in me. And I have this dream of a partner who I want to play with, who we're going to get together after the holidays and see if there's any magic there. And if we can commit to this,

It's 100%. Yes. I just got to go through the paces. It's a process to figure these things out. Apparently, my whole life, everything is just unfolded and everything's made sense and it just keeps happening. And this is the first time in my life where I'm like, let me pause. Let me think when I think I'm in trouble. So I'm just like praying and just waiting to know, you know, I'm waiting to I'm excited to see you and see you in Paris. So one of those times where you had everything fall together perfectly, you

From August 2007 to August 2008, you and Misty went on 112 match winning streak. And most people in a year have some good weeks, some bad weeks. I can't imagine that a whole year was just a whole year of good days every single day. Nothing was hard.

But you guys won every time. What do you do? Maybe you didn't have a bad day, but I'm going to assume you did. How do you get past that? And how do you still perform at that level when you're having a bad day, which I think for everyone is inevitable?

Yeah, I mean, certainly there are a lot of near misses, near losses in that run. The world's very good and we had to play a lot of great teams. Certainly there was a lot of injuries to play through and friction in our team to work through and friction in life. Yeah, I don't know. It's Misty and I were literally magic.

So it's like something would happen on the court and either we'd start the match on point and we finished on match and just crush someone or we would just start wonky and people would challenge us. And then at some point we'd always just come together. It's like the harder things got for Misty and I, the more uncomfortable it was. We just got closer together. And that happened.

That is a legacy of, you know, that builds legacies. We think about the Patriots or the Warriors or the Giants or whoever's had amazing, successful, longstanding legacies. I think that it's that ability to come together when times are tough because you have that belief, you have that respect, you have that vulnerability and strength together. And Missy and I had that for 10 years, basically. But that run in 2007, 2008 was really gnarly. And for me, that was the time of my career was where I was most obsessed with.

Like 100% volleyball all the time. And I had got married in 2005. I almost lost my marriage because of my obsession. Like all I wanted to do is win, you know, prior right after I got married, after the Athens games, I got pregnant and had a miscarriage. And then my husband, I decided to wait till after Beijing and

to try again. And so in that period of two, two and a half years, I was like, if I'm not having babies, I am, I need to win. And so I lost sight of my life and just got so focused on volleyball and we dominated. Missy and I were so close, like, and our coach was so close. We were so rad. We were so connected, which is beautiful, which is how you win. But my life fell apart.

So I, even though we kicked ass and dominated and that was part of the record books, I would never want to go back there because everything that's most important to me almost was just blown away and destroyed. To have a year like that?

I don't think it has to be that. And that's why part of why I want to keep going. It's God, I really, I can do this better. Cause like I told you moving forward to Paris, like I need to marry the intimate connection with my family, with the intimate connection I have with my partner and the journey. Cause right now I haven't done that. And it's like, I have to peace out to my family for six weeks at a time. And my heart can't take that anymore. It can't like literally I might die. It feels like that. Cause I can't breathe. I can't focus. I feel so guilty, all these things.

And I miss my family so much and my kids are suffering for it and my husband. So I really don't believe, I believe it requires obsession, but I believe there's a way to have a healthy obsession and to make

To make sure that you're living life and being present wherever you are. For me, it's if I had a tournament in two weeks, but I was home, I could only think about the tournament in two weeks. So it's like my time at home was wasted. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. What do you think if you could go back to 2007, what do you think you could share to your younger self that would allow you to find that balance? Well, I think it's just like one of my favorite quotes is from my performance psychologist, Mike Gervais. And he says, be where your feet are.

Like be 100% where you are. Because if you're on the court, then if you're in the moment and you're not worried about the past or the future, all of your tools and resource and focus and greatness is going to show up in that moment if you're where your feet are. Same thing in life. If I'm with my husband, but I have a huge tournament coming up or a big game the next day, but if I'm with him in that moment for that hour, that hour is going to feel like four days because I'm in the moment and I'm connecting with him sincerely. So I think the antidote to so much stress and to stress

to balancing your obsessions with your life obsessions is just to be in the moment. And certainly we've all heard the kind of quote that what grows is what you nurture in water. And so it's like, I went to this Tony Robbins podcast

Do you know Tony Robbins? Yeah, of course. Yeah. So I went to one of his seminars and it was so amazing. And one of the first thing he says, people have been jumping up and down for an hour straight waiting for him. And one of the first thing he says is, you guys, I know you guys all kick ass and you bring energy and love and passion to your jobs. And everyone's like, yeah. And he goes on a riff on that for a second. And then he goes, but take a moment. Think about the energy and the passion and the presence you bring to your relationships. And everyone was like, oh, yeah.

Like it was so deflating. And to me, it was like such a slap in my face because my husband tells me that all the time. Less now because I'm working on it. He's like, babe, you get everyone outside of this house, the world, your energy, your focus. Like you make them feel like they're the only thing in the world. Then you come home, you're exhausted. And your time with us is not as quality. So can we fix that? And then when Tony said that, I was like, oh my hell, yes. It's so true. And so I feel like if I can...

Give the energy and the love. It's a different expression of it, but the give the energy and love that I put to my career toward my family and whatever expression is real, that's the game changer. And do it consistently. Like you can't just do it once in a while. I can't appreciate my husband once in a while or be there for my kids once in a while. Like I want to go metal as a mom too and a wife too. So that requires every day. Yeah. Are there any kind of tricks or things you've added to your routine to make that work better?

Man, I was always involved, you know, but I was just kind of distracted, kind of agitated. Like I was all there, but I was just like, it's kind of like a caged lion. Like, fuck, let me let me at it. And that's almost embarrassing to say, but it's my it's my truth. But for me, you know, mindfulness, mindfulness practice is a huge part of my life. When I started meditating and taking time to be in stillness every day.

It really allows me to respond to life and not just be so reactive. And I am a very emotional person. So I feed off your energy. If you're having a bad day, I kind of make myself have a bad day. And I just want to control my environment so everyone's comfortable. And when I meditate, when I have that stillness within me, I'm more of an observer.

and I can respond in more healthy ways. So that's really beautiful to me. And I just made it a priority. I've done a lot of self-help work. I did a lot of work with my performance psychologist, Mike Gervais. And he's like, basically, Carrie, he's like, you can't have it all.

But you can have what matters most to you. So figure out what matters most to you and then make those your priorities. So for me, I figured out what was most important to me and I put them in buckets. So I have my faith, right? My God, my creator. I have to connect to that because that empowers me. That makes me empowered in life. I have my family, right? I have my career and those three things. Like those are my three things, my three buckets. And so when I'm feeling out of

out of sorts in the world, literally, if I take a moment and be like, hey, out of my three buckets, what am I not serving? It shows me what I'm not paying attention to. And so my life side of my life has to be a priority. Otherwise, everything else is going to be, I'm going to get bronzes. I'm not going to qualify. So, you know, things like that. So much of performance is often not in the thing. It's what's in your head. It's what's going on outside. But you mentioned you, you have a performance coach, mindfulness,

Those aren't physical things. Do you think a lot of the success is more mental than physical in sports? I heard someone say, and I really love this because it's like, what's more important, the mental or the physical? And to me, like emotional is so important too. But this guy said, Andrew Huberman, Huberman Lab Podcast. He's incredible. He said,

Get rid of all that. Everything is your nervous system, right? So your mental capacity, your emotional, your physical, it all is wrapped up in your nervous system. And so I just think it's everything all wrapped into one. For me, I think the easier part of everything is the physical part. I'm an athlete. Like I can suck it up. I can go really hard. I can do these things. The harder part is pulling back.

if I'm injured, like recovering, prioritizing sleep and nutrition and going to my performance psychologist, you know, kind of the softer skills. But to me, the softer skills make me lethal.

And they enhance my physical skills. So I don't think there's an answer to that question other than the fact that everything impacts everything else. And if we could all have healthy nervous systems because we pay attention and fuel our body, mind, and spirit, then we could all kick ass longer and feel better while we're doing it. Like, I don't want to grit out and grind out a journey that I hate and get to the end and be like, oh, we won, but that sucked. I never want to do that.

I really do want to enjoy my days. And so for me, it's about creating processes, hanging out with people, making sure my environment allows for that joy, that positive energy in my days, because I know that serves me best. Yeah. I've not been fortunate to have a mental or performance psychologist. What are some of the lessons you've learned from that relationship that people listening might be able to apply to their home work lives?

Well, outside of the mindfulness practice, which, you know, it's like for me and Tony Robbins mentions this as well. He's like, whenever you're feeling so overwhelmed and so in your head or so just stuck in life, he's like, get out of your head and get into your body.

Right. So that was a big thing for me because I tend to, I want to fix everything. I want to know the answer. Like I want to be able to speak, articulate to everything. And if I can't, then I get overwhelmed and then I just don't know what to do. And so go take a walk, go for a run, get in the sauna, you need to do something to get back into your whole system. And I think that's really helpful. So for me, Mike, Mike Gervais gave me this practice, like

before I get in the car, I turn the car on and I actually listen to the ignition, right? I feel the steering wheel in my hand. So anything to like connect my body, all my senses, like that brings you back to the moment. And again, if we're in the moment, then we can attack our lives beautifully, more powerfully than if we weren't in the moment, rushing through and racing through. Something else that really helped me with Mike Gervais is that he just, he doesn't do the work for you, but he kind of

he highlights the work you have. And I, he helped me realize how much baggage I carry around and how I have just these ridiculous expectations. And mostly actually is how, how important my self-talk is to my success and my satisfaction in life. And what he says, which I know to be true at this point is that self-confidence comes from one place and one place only. And that's the way you talk to yourself.

And so Mike Gervais is a huge proponent of having positive, in the very least, neutral self-talk, where instead of belittling yourself and saying, oh, you're an idiot, oh, you F that up, or we're going to lose. It's like that's going to give you momentum in the totally wrong direction. So if you have the awareness to hear yourself talking to yourself like that,

You have the awareness, you catch yourself and then you choose better. So choose a neutral thought because it's hard to go from, oh, you're the worst in the world to you're the best. That's not credible. So go from, ah, that sucked. You're terrible to let's restart. Let's try this again. I got this. I'm ready for this. This is part of it to neutral talk. And then from neutral, you can go into more positive talk. So I think the...

I think the inner critic is very valuable, but the self-talk that you have really, really determines your performance. You know what I'm saying? So I'm just thinking, imagine I finished an interview and it wasn't great. Would it be fair to say, instead of saying, God, that was horrible to say that wasn't my best. Is that, is that neutral or, or help?

Help me nail down what neutral is. Yeah, I don't think you lied to yourself. Well, yeah, no, I think that's fair. I think that's fair. And then you'd be like, hey, what could I do better? What did I do well? After every game, we have a debrief where it's like, what do we do good individually? What can we work on individually and then collectively? So for something like that, did I prepare well enough? Was I rushing? How did I feel on my body? How could I have made

the environment more amenable, amenable to having a great podcast, these types of things. I think these thoughts are great, but in the moment, I think it's really important to be neutral or positive or encouraging in the very least. Encouragement is such a huge thing in life. And then after, yeah, you just don't beat yourself up. You can acknowledge it and be like, okay, I'll do better next time. How can I do better? And then you carry on, you know? Yeah.

I mean, this must be easy. I know your nickname, Six Feet of Sunshine. You have this positive attitude and joy. Is there a secret to all that happiness and success and joy that keeps you having all this positive self-talk and not even self-talk, outward talk?

Well, my self-talk is gnarly. I have a lot of room for improvement, for sure. I definitely speak outwardly more positively in general, but I do. It's authentic to me to be positive. Nature and nurture, my family's that way. I don't have any pessimists around me. I don't have a lot of cynics around me. I have a lot of curious people around me, a lot of people who have a lot of faith around

around me. And I, so I think, and I'm just a very faithful, optimistic person by nature. And then in my life experience, when I have been cynical, when I have indulged in like, woe is me and feeling terrible and being overburdened by a challenge, thinking in a, thinking in

in a more negative way takes me so far from what I want. So now it's if I fail, I've revamped it in my head where, okay, that was a rep. That rep shows me where I can improve.

and I'm determined to improve. So now I go to work and that could be a mental rep. It could be a physical rep, but that's a positive way to frame these things. It's a repetition of something. And then I just get curious. It's okay. So if I'm having this podcast and I want to kick ass and I almost want it too bad and I'm feeling so much anxiety that I can't even have this conversation, I want to be curious about my anxiety. What are my thoughts before the podcast? What are my thoughts during? And just...

Self-awareness to me is like a superpower. And if we can develop self-awareness of how we feel in certain situations, how we feel around certain people, our kind of our routines, all these things, like we have so much more control in our lives than I think we think.

And I think what I said earlier is that when you find yourself in a funk, like if you find yourself thinking terrible thoughts, that's self-awareness that you're having that. But the real thing is sometimes we think our thoughts are thinking for us, but that's just because that's a habit. Like we can stop that and flip the script and choose better.

And my philosophy is always just choose better. And if you focus on the solution, then the solution's gonna come. If you focus on the problem, the problem's gonna seem like it's gonna envelop you. It's kind of law of attraction type stuff. Focus on what you want, not what you don't want.

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So you should definitely check them out at allthehacks.com slash Viore or in the link in the show notes. Again, go to allthehacks.com slash V-U-O-R-I and get yourself some of the most comfortable and versatile clothing on the planet. You talked a lot about self-awareness. Does that come mostly from your mindfulness practice or where does some of that come from?

You know, I think I'm a pretty self-aware human. I don't know if as an athlete, if you need to be because you need all systems firing. I come from a big family and I think that kind of knowing your place and we're all utility players having an awareness of what's needed at a certain time. I think that's part of my upbringing. I definitely have trained it through mindfulness training. I really love people. I really love connecting and I think I'm an empath to a certain extent. So I feed off energy. So I think it's just something that I

it's natural to me. And to me, it just pays so many dividends, not only in myself, because I can self-regulate if I'm aware of something happening, but within my relationships, because I can notice how I'm feeling with my husband if we're having a tough conversation or my husband's having a tough day, I can have awareness about

how he's feeling and then I can address it or love him more or whatever it is. I think those things are very, very valuable. Kind of the emotional IQ part of life to me is so undervalued. For every top performer, I think it's just a really important thing, especially if you want a long career. So I think you got to pay attention to that stuff. Yeah. Are there things to improve it? Some of those things are natural, right? You can't go back in time and have a large family. No, right.

But what are things you think people can do to improve it? I think just, again, I think just developing a practice. Well, A, knowing who you are is really valuable and being curious about becoming your best self. I feel like if you're always curious about what the potential you have, then that just makes you like, oh, okay, I just had that. I just did that. It was just an a-hole to that person. I want to do that better. You know, kind of living what you don't want shows you what you do want type of thing. And that's what self-awareness is about.

And so I'm always trying to be a better version of myself while loving myself at the same time, even through my flaws. And so I feel like that kind of self-love component, the curiosity about your innate potential is really important. And then I just think like creating space in your life is really important where it's like if there's a, if you're having a challenging relationship or if there's a challenge in general, if you can like kind of pull yourself outside of it and become the observer of it, which is like Jedi stuff.

But so you're not like in the middle of it, but you're like, okay, there's this argument going on or I'm in this involved in this argument. Like what's behind this, you know, and all these things. Like, I just, I feel like getting out of the mud. Okay. A couple of things. So I think,

Being curious is really important about yourself, about others. Like what's behind this friction? I think that that's a thought that makes you not be like, what the fuck? Like, why are you doing this? Okay, what, like really what's behind this? I'm really curious. I really care about these people or this situation. So get curious, create some space so that you can actually see what's going on instead of being super emotionally tied to what's going on. And then focus on the solution. You know, I think these are all things that are based in awareness and

that will then allow you to have tools to respond appropriately. You know, because there's not one right answer for every situation, even if it's a similar situation all the time. So I think giving yourself space, giving yourself a moment, you know, a breath to be in the moment, like one breath, deep breath in and out resets your physiology. Like something volleyball that probably relates to this a little bit is that I've been encouraged if I'm feeling like tunnel vision because I'm stressed, I'm anxious, it's a big moment. I've been encouraged to look off to the horizon.

because it literally expands my vision and my brain is, oh, okay, I'm not in this little fight or flight mode. Like I have take on the full kaleidoscope of world, which is beautiful. And so I think just reprogramming yourself so you can be in the moment without anxiety, just knowing that you're equipped to handle whatever's in your way or whatever you're dealing with is a beautiful mindset type of thing.

So that was all over the place, but it's just space is important. Awareness is important. And then responding mindfully is important. And those things don't just happen like on game day. Like I train every day like that. And I use my training in my personal life too. Like in a conversation with my husband or if a phone call, I have to make him 1440. I have to go fire somebody. Like I take my breath before, you know, I think I have my, my preparation, you know, my intention for the, for all these things. I think of what I want the outcome to be.

And then I go. So the preparation is everything. And then it's all about being in the moment. I've done a lot of those things as well. So that's really helpful. Does it work for you? Yeah, I mean, for me, there was an interesting conversation I had about kind of distraction. There's a guy named Nir Eyal who wrote a book called Indistractable. And he says, when you're at this moment where you feel distracted,

Take a moment and like feel what that what that is so you can recognize it, because a lot of times the reactions you take to things aren't you're not aware of them until you understand them. And once you realize it, like you said, pause in the car and hear things once you're kind of in the moment, you can course correct. But if you don't pause to understand when that moment happens, it's really hard to course correct.

Totally. Yeah. Yeah, I agree. I honestly think being in the moment is the antidote to everything in life. Yeah, you did. We talked a lot about things you can do in your mind. But when it comes to the body, we started our conversation talking about mushroom tea. And you mentioned you've got a lot of things that you've done and experimented with to optimize. I'd love to hear the things that worked, maybe the things that didn't, but the things that have stayed in your routine to help you maybe in that realm.

Yeah, there's so many things and they're all like so fundamental and nothing's new. So obviously sleep is just a huge, huge priority. That's for my mental performance, my emotional capabilities and my physical performance. Sleep is everything. And then nutrition is obviously huge. And I don't have any specific diet, but I definitely eat very clean. I focus on protein and

a lot. I eat a ton of protein. I'm a meat eater. And I just think my body and my brain needs protein, needs good fat as well. So those are my two priorities in my nutrition. I just literally, today's day one off of this eight-day milk cleanse.

because this is so gross, but I have parasites. I have all these pathogens in my tummy and I started gaining weight, but I'm eating really well. I'm sleeping good and I'm working out a ton and I was gaining weight in not a good way. And I was like, what the hell is going on? And I've had, they're just really hard to get rid of the pathogens in my tummy. And so I just drank, I drank six ounces of milk every two hours for 12 hours for eight days in a row. And that's all I had all day. And it was so gnarly, Chris, like by day five, I'm like this, like,

Oh my God, I had lost 10 pounds and I needed to, so I was stoked on that, but it was probably all water weight, but whatever. But by the end of this morning, I woke up so proud because I just did something so hard. And I think it's so important to do hard things and to push through because I almost quit and I almost cheated like a hundred times.

And my kids tell me doing this, my kids would like, I'd make dinner for my whole family. I couldn't eat it. And they would just tease me with it. So anyhow, so I have been doing the standard process cleanse for over 15 years. I do that once a year and that's just to clean out all of my organs, um, to make sure everything's running smoothly by the end of it. I feel like a million bucks. So I would highly recommend you guys, uh,

And is that just like a fast or what is that? No, you can use as much as you want, but just of what's allowed. So no butter, no alcohol, no caffeine, no bread. It's a lot of fruits and vegetables and protein. And they give you shakes and pills. But it's a pretty incredible, incredible cleanse because you're just really eating very cleanly.

a very balanced diet and you start to taste food again and you just cut out all this stuff. Like I drink a lot of drinks every day and it all adds up, you know, even if it's like a holistic tea with some collagen, those are calories and those are, you know, there's it's processed. So that's something I'm very mindful of. I partnered with Seeking Health and

which is a supplement company that I am in love with. I researched them for over a year before I signed with them because I just, A, I wanted to work, but I fell in love with their science and with their efficacy. So my kids and I and my husband all use these products and every single person in my ginormous family will be getting Seeking Health products

whether it's vitamin C or zinc or vitamin D plus K in their stockings this year. So I think that's huge. And then also the stuff I do outside of training, diverse training, strength training, Pilates, I do this. It's called pillar principles. I don't even know how to explain it, but I do a lot of stillness work and poses and I try to create space in my body and then I can fill muscle in instead of just packing muscle on this frame that's misaligned.

So that's something else I do. But the cold plunge is something that I'm 100% in love with. I do it probably four days a week for four minutes at a time. I will go in the sauna for 45 minutes. I get all, I sweat the toxins out. I sit there, that's hard as well. And then I go straight to the cold plunge, which is at, right now it's at 43 degrees. I sit in there for about four minutes and then I'm done. So all these things are, it's all the elements. You want the protein, you want the fat, you want the cold, you want the heat.

You want the resistance training. And then I get the exercise of my relationships as far as kind of connection, all these things. I read a lot.

So all these things add up to being a high performer in my case. Everything is body, mind and spirit. You know? Yeah. It's funny you mentioned the cold plunge. I was talking to my wife about a cold plunge and I was like, what's the, what's the hack to do a cold plunge? And I was reading these articles about buying a freestanding freezer and like sealing off the joints. You could turn a freezer into a cold plunge. And it's like, I've done everything. And then we found literally it's called the cold plunge.com and it's plugged in.

Yeah, I saw it. But then I was like, gosh, this freezer version is like $800. No, no money. Money is one thing, but then you have to buy the ice every single time. Like we, we went so far as we had the industrial tub that they have in hospitals. We bought an ice machine and,

And we were just so invested, but it was such a pain in the ass because the ice couldn't recycle fast enough for how much we needed and it didn't make enough ice. So we've lived so many iterations of this. And then we found the cold plunge and it's saving us money. It's saving us time. It makes it easy. And now there's literally no excuse not to do it. So I would recommend everyone who's in this life optimization and performance optimization part,

to go check it out. Because for the immune benefits, for the mental benefits of resiliency and doing hard things and just continually adapting, like it is powerful medicine. And it makes it so easy, Chris. I'm not even like, I'm not a partner with them, like at all. I love them. So I just, I would check into it. And the sauna is next level as well. They go hand in hand.

I'm laughing because if you path my future, it's going to be buying one of these. If anyone's seen those meat freezers that they're like five feet by three feet, I'm going to go buy a meat freezer. I'm going to go seal it off. I'm going to fill it with water. I'm going to add filtration. And for six months, I'm going to be using this like DIY cold plunge.

And then it's going to break and I'm going to fix it. And then eventually I'm going to say, this wasn't worth it. Just like the DIY Peloton. I'm going to go buy the real thing, which I did there. So I just, I like to at least experiment. Maybe it's a great solution. A lot of DIY things are, but I see for some reason I'm like predicting my future of

of trying and giving up and doing the real thing. - We all need to be mindful of the stories we say. So if that's the future you want, speak to it. But I like that. I think it's so, it's like rangy, right? It's like the book, like you're developing more range.

like creating these experiences for yourself and you'll figure it out. If it works, it works. If not, it's going to lead you somewhere else. But I love that you're just engaged with it. That's like everything. Yeah. I'm going to take a little bit of a turn. You've talked a lot, a few different times about your family. Yeah. And you have three kids. You actually, if I remember right, were pregnant with one of them while winning a gold medal. Yeah, my daughter. Yeah. Has having them made it harder to perform or are there times you wish that you were doing one versus the other? And how did you manage that?

You know, it's what I've always wanted was to be a working mommy, period. So I know what I signed up for and I would never trade it for the whole wide world. It's the best part, having both, right? Having two things. My family is up here. My career is very important to me, but it's way down here. But I spend more time in my career, you know? So it's like this crazy yin and yang. So no, I love both. I love both sides of me, both sides of my life in that way make me a better human. My kids...

100% made me a better athlete, a better partner, more focused, more intentional. So my kids have helped my career immensely. Where it gets hard is the time management, is the guilt, all these things. Because I thought it was really hard when my kids were infants and actually got to travel the world with them when they were babies on the road. But now that they're older, it's like my kids are studs and they have their own lives. And I miss

I miss things and that's heartbreaking. And so that's the only hard part to me. I don't care about being tired. I don't care about having to work all day training and then come home and be mommy, make dinner and do homework. I love all of that, but I do not have as much time to dedicate to my craft as I normally would watching video and getting body work and all these things. All those things get put on the back burner because I have to prioritize. So that's where it gets hard, but I wouldn't want to trade it for all the money in the world. It's my favorite thing and it's very hard, but hard isn't bad.

I was talking to my best friend and it's like, we need to reframe the meaning and the vibe behind hard work. It's like we all carry it. It's the biggest burden when it's like, man, I'm so gifted and blessed that I love what I do with all my heart that I'm willing to suffer so much for it because that's true love. I've suffered in my marriage because I love my man so much. I've suffered for my children because I love them so much. I suffer for volleyball because I love it so much. And so I think that's a blessing. And I really love working hard.

um and that's why i just think it's so important to have purpose and meaning behind what you're doing because you're going to suffer either way and if you if you do have purpose and meaning then you're going to be able to endure and outlast and you'll get to where you want to go eventually no matter what you know even if it looks different than what you think it was gonna but if you hate what you do and you have no purpose in meeting you're suffering

you know, it's like, what's the point? Make a shift there. Not that it's that easy all the time, but it kind of is, you know, like I think we should all be doing things that are meaningful. And if you, even if you're custodian, God bless them. If you love it and you like love, but you're supporting your family and you're having these deep relationships with the people you're working with, that that's,

so powerful to me. But if you hate every day and you resent it, get rid of it. Jordan Peterson is one of my heroes in life. And he says, resentment is basically your body and your mind shouting out to speak to something like something's off here. And so, yeah, I just wanted to share that because that was really powerful to me because I sometimes I feel that I'm like, why am I feeling this? I don't like feeling this way. Let me now I'm going to speak to it. I'm thinking about it first.

Yeah. You've shared so many lessons. Are there lessons that you've learned that you're consciously trying to teach or share with your children? All of them, really. You know, it's pretty cool being at where I'm at in my career. Like I'm literally like I'm 50-50 if I'm retired or not. Like it truly is, which is such a weird place. Like I've obviously never been here before. But my children are competing at such a high level for their age group. And I get to witness them

like striving and falling short and training certain things. Like my husband took my son Sundance to the rec center this morning at 645 to go work on dribbling. That's commitment. That's family connection. It's like everything that's so special in life. Anyhow, but when I watch my kids compete, like it just reinforces the things that I know personally

are important for me to be a high performer. Like if my kids get second or third in a race and they're devastated and they feel shame about losing, I'm like, babe, that was incredible. You tried your best. What could you do better? But babe, that was just a rep at doing something very hard. And you're going to take this rep with you

when you go next, if you miss that layup, babe, don't worry about it. If you get punched like this is going to make you so good. You know, the hard stuff makes you so good because it fortifies you. But you have to have that mindset that this is here to serve me. And one of my founding principles is that everything in my life is here to serve me. And all the hell I've had in my life has been in my own making because of choices or poor thinking or taking things for granted or over obsession. And I learned through all these things because it's there to serve me and it's there to help my soul grow.

And yeah, I love learning from my children. They're little, little students. And mostly it's I feel like the call for all of us, especially this day and age is to treat ourselves how we would treat our best friend or to treat our children. If we F up, if we have a bad day, if we're an a-hole, like how would you speak to your child about that?

And it's not baby talk, but it's just like you're never going to lay the hammer on them. Like you can be strict and you can be, you know, like have conviction, but it doesn't mean being a hole. And so I'm really trying to love myself and love my children in the same way so we can all grow in really holistic, healthy ways that center around

like self-sourcing confidence, self-sourcing happiness, self-sourcing the feeling of success and satisfaction and not waiting for anyone, anything or anyone outside of us to save the day or to make us be happy or to make us feel accomplished. You know what I'm saying?

Yeah. Yeah. Are they all following the footsteps in sports? They're all little ballers. That's for sure. They're so cute. But they also, they're just, they're way more, they're more rangy than me. They like, they read, they read and they write. And my son, sonnet says piano and Joey, like is a love, he's a craftsman doing these things and scouting my daughters and artists. It's so cool. The access these kids have today. And my husband's very, very good about getting the kids out of the house.

about introducing them to new things. And we just see what sticks and we follow their curiosity and what lights them up. And it's really beautiful. Yeah. I'm so excited. We have one daughter and she's 16 months. Yeah, have fun with her. She's just starting. We're like, let's go to the library. Let's go to the zoo. You start to recognize things. So it's really exciting to get them out and show them the world and all of the things that there are all over the place. Yeah, Chris. And the relationship for a dad and their children is just

I just witnessed it so much. I mean, obviously the mommy is sacred and it's so special, but daddies and daughters, daddies and sons is just such an essential relationship. And it's just, I'm so excited for you to create that with your daughter because when my husband's not around, my kids are different. Not that I'm not enough, but it's like they need both partners. And it's such a beautiful thing when a daddy is a great father. I'm trying my best.

That changes lives. I remember the first time I realized my dad believed in me, it changed my whole life. Like I'm going to cry. And literally that's why I'm doing this today because of that one day playing horse against my brother and our best friend who were so good at basketball. And he put his money on me and I swear to God, it changed my whole life, Chris, like crazy. So that's the power of a mentor or a parent or a loved one believing in you.

Yeah. And that takes the same kind of presence that we talked about earlier to be there for, for those moments that believe in you. And you don't need to be perfect. You just need to be there. You sincerely like sincerity is magic as well. It covers up all sorts of sins, covers up all sorts of perfection because you're there sincerely. You're not trying to be or do or, you know, anything that you're not. It's awesome.

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Part of this podcast is there's a deep rooted kind of love for travel. And I want to go somewhere interesting. I looked online and you've played 149 tournaments outside of the US, which means in by my count 29 countries, any hacks from all these travel like what you do when you travel to make it more enjoyable other than other than upgrades?

Yeah, upgrades, number one. I definitely bring a lot of hydration. I think the water they give, I'm not a big fan of the food or anything on airplanes. Thank goodness for it, but I'm not a big fan. So I source my own food, my own water. I always bring a lacrosse ball or a softball to put in my back. It's like we all get back problems where we're sitting down or my hips. And that kind of is a distraction for my body and it helps relieve some pain and pressure. And to me, I can't travel without it. I'll roll my feet out, I'll roll my back and people think I'm weird, but it's like I need it.

There's these devices called Firefly Recovery Devices. And basically it's this little device that you wrap around your knee and it's a pressure point that helps flush, like you know how we all get cankles when we fly? So it helps flush the circulation. So, and it has a little vibration so you feel that distraction.

And then you keep your circulation going, which to me is really important. It was so cool. These things, Firefly was developed for people who have surgery, like leg surgery, and they have a lot of swelling and it just helps the recovery process. So a lot of athletes do this after big matches, long days, they put this device on them and it helps them recover. I brought 10 units, a stem machine. I bought that. If you're miserable, you're going to try to find a way to alleviate pain. And that was a huge one for me. That was a really, really good one for me.

So just stuff like that. I bring always a good book, make sure I have my charger, have all the essentials done because I'll panic if my phone dies. Yeah. Stuff like that. A pillow. Any place that you just love to go that you plan repeat trips to? I rarely traveled for enjoyment. It's always been on the circuit. So we always go once a year, we go to Stade, Switzerland, which is one of my favorite towns in the whole wide world. It's at the base of the Alps, cobblestone streets, just a typical, beautiful Swiss village.

Love it there. You should go there free on your miles. They have one of the most amazing hotels called the Alpine that has, it makes, it puts no boo to shame. Their sushi restaurant. It's incredible. And then I love Paris with all my heart, but yeah, we've gotten to some really remarkable places. I'm more of a European traveler than an Asian traveler, even though I had really great experiences in Asia. I just, I have more of a, I think I'm more comfortable over there.

Yeah. I hope you get to, I don't want to push off retirement, especially knowing how much you love Paris coming up in a few years, but I hope that whenever that day comes, you get to start traveling more for fun.

Yeah, thank you. It's part of the vision board. I'm a very big believer in vision boards and you got to see it. You got to see it to bring into your life and your experience and travel is one of my loves for sure. I just, I want it with my family more often than not. Like when my kids, you know, get older, I can't wait to travel with my husband. Traveling is just such a beautiful gift. It's funny, we've talked about your retirement, but you started a company. And so it's funny that even if you stop playing volleyball, you're not stopping working. I can't, I can't afford it.

I mean, it's funny because you you're a pro athlete. You talked about how you didn't have enough time to balance work on the on the court and your family. And yet you started a company. What inspired you to take one other huge thing on in your life with with almost no free time?

Well, as with everything in my life, the team makes everything possible. This is not a solo mission. Otherwise, this would have lasted maybe half a day. Because being an entrepreneur, as you know, is as gnarly as it gets. It makes being an Olympian like a walk in the park, like as far as I'm concerned. You know, being an athlete, like I just love that I live and die based on my own results. Being an entrepreneur, there's so many more variables, different people's timelines and all these things. So I really have a lot of respect for the entrepreneurs out there.

A lot of the things that are required to be a great athlete are required to be a great entrepreneur, which I really respect. So I have good training there. Sport has given me everything in my life. It gave me my husband. I've been all around the world. I got a college scholarship. I've learned so many valuable life lessons. And so I really want to leave the sport better than when I showed up.

And the sport of volleyball is so underserved, as we talked about before, not just in prize money and people's ability to earn, but just in growth and the way the market responds to us. There's huge opportunity there. And so within 1440, we're just here to serve the community that is very hungry, that is very underserved, that is very deserving. So we have two sides of us. We have our event side where we create opportunities where these kids can compete at events, where

We just started this year where at the end of our six event series, it's called the Futures Tour. The top 40 points earners are going to earn over $110,000 to go toward their club fees and toward their pursuit of a college scholarship.

So we love that we're easing that pain point because it's a really expensive proposition to be a club sport athletes these days. So the Futures Tour is allowing us to give back so they get to compete at a high level and then earn prize money to go toward subsidizing their futures, which is beautiful. And then we have the digital program side of us where it's all about health and wellness and volleyball. And so we can train you in all sorts of things.

So it's pretty powerful. I'm honored to do it. It's a really hard job. I'm in this chair most days on Zoom calls all day and sending emails. And that's actually another driver for me not to retire yet because this is a different kind of hard and I'm out of practice with it. And it's not my favorite.

But the community we're growing and building and the impact we're having and we continue to grow into, it makes it worth it. So I'm willing to be uncomfortable for those things I love, like I mentioned before, but shit, this is just crazy. Yeah, I've started companies and it is a lot of work. Are there specific things that you have learned as an athlete that you think people listening to this in business would benefit from learning that you've applied running the company?

Well, all of it, really. I mean, just consistency, you know, that we are our habits. So make sure your habits are on point. I really, one of the first lessons I learned through our investor, who's incredible, her name's Teresa, is that every time we have a board call or a financial call, like she tackles the hardest thing first. Like money makes me really uncomfortable, right? It like makes me scream. And on every call I've ever been on, when money is involved, usually it happens at the end and we're all dreading this call for we're on here for an hour. And at the end we get to the nitty gritty. She tackles the hardest thing first.

And it changes everything. And it allows for so much more freedom and engagement. And to me, that was very, very powerful. When you're on a phone call, just address what needs to be addressed candidly.

you know, respectfully and just get the hard part of her with first. I think the importance of resilience, that resilience is a choice. Resilience is a mindset is really, really important because as we all know, as an autism in life and being an entrepreneur, you're going to take hits. You never saw coming. You're going to stumble, you know, kind of risks you took are not going to pan out. And so you have to be resilient. You have to be nimble, but know what your goal is, but be very flexible and getting there. That's been a theme in my career for sure. Cause nothing is linear. Um,

leaning on your teammates, having hard conversations, getting dirty with the things. If you have an idea, see it through execution. Don't just throw your idea to your team and expect it to come out the end where you want it to be. You got to stick with the process type of thing. So all these beautiful things. It's really, really important. And then just, I really believe that so much in life, everything in life is energy. And so much of the success and satisfaction in life comes from a mindset of

And so one of my favorite quotes is, it's not the weight you carry, it's the way you carry it.

And so as we go through hard things in business and the, you know, it's like we keep being overloaded with all this weight and stress and burdens and challenges. It's like, how are you going to carry your weight? Are you going to carry it like it's heavy or are you going to carry it like you got it? You know, and that's kind of metaphorical, like with your thinking, with your emotional state, with your physicality, like I got this. That mentality is really, really important, obviously, when you're an entrepreneur, because you have to find a way. It's your job, you know? Yeah. Yeah. It's literally, I've had moments where it's like,

there's no person above you. Like you have to solve the problem. Like in so many parts of life, if you're, you could pass it on or you can get advice, but like at the end of the day, you're like, I don't have a choice. I have to solve this problem. It has to be done. And I'm jealous of all the training you had solving difficult things before you jumped into entrepreneurship. And yeah,

I'm excited to see what the future entails. And I've had the fortunate benefit of being able to see some, you know, live beach volleyball games, which I think, you know, Trump seen it on TV. So I hope some of the tours you guys are putting on are in places that people listening get a chance to go see it because, you know, you said it's the number one sport in the Olympics. Seeing it in person is next level. It is next level. Yeah. It's such a big fun party. It's so inspiring. I think it's,

Like I said earlier, encouragement is so important. I think it's so important just to create moments of inspiration in your days and to seek out the inspiration in your life. The sport of volleyball is one thing. I love watching the Warriors. I love beautiful art. I think it's upon each of ourselves to curate our life experience and our environments and what we introduce into our lives. And yeah, choosing, inspiring, encouraging things are beautiful. Yeah, I think I've shared this before, but I'll share it with you. One thing that I started doing was

I created a spreadsheet and every month I have to do some memorable, inspiring experience. And

And usually it just, I'm fortunate that something happens and I'm like, great, it happened. But it's come the 25th of the month. If there's nothing, I'm like, we got to go do something. Like whether it's a new museum, whether it's a show, whether like it has to be something we can't have done it before. It has to be something that we wouldn't just regularly do. And so I have this list from 2015 of all of the things that happened each month. There were a few months during COVID where there just wasn't a thing. And I, I,

I was like, I have the choice of trying to make something up and say, oh, we did this little thing. And so I just took the L and said, for these three months, we just did nothing. And I failed for those. You're forgiven. Yeah. But going forward, it's coming back. And each month, it's let's do something memorable because my, I can't remember where this came from, but I couldn't imagine a world where you look back and there was a month-long period of your life where there was nothing memorable that happened.

And so I started documenting, making sure that something happened and it's been really awesome to do. That's incredible. What a great suggestion for all of us. You're so right. Like we're just all automatons and just walking through life. And I know we have high moments and low moments in every day, but like creating memories. And that to me is like the power of intention and commitment. You committed to it and you and your enthusiasm, you spoke about it like constantly.

That's awesome. I think it's really powerful. Good work. It's not hard. It's just do something new and fun. It doesn't have to be expensive. So I encourage everyone to do that. Commit to it. Commit, you commit. The decision is the most important part of the journey, right? Once you commit, don't hedge your bets. Like go. Well, this has been fantastic. Before we go, where can people...

follow what you're doing, find out what you decide in June and kind of track you along the way. I would be greatly honored if people could follow at Platform 1440 across all social channels. I am at Carolee Walsh across all social channels. P1440.com is really important. Yeah, we're going to have

some new digital programs coming out early in the year, 2022, which is madness. For 1440, that's all centered on resetting and just, it's like an initiation, like starting your year of powerfully and getting rid of the baggage so you can create the 2022 of your dreams. And it's all centered on body, mind, and spirit. I really like that trifecta. So you'll get some strength training, some agility training, some mindfulness training, and some nutrition as well. So all that stuff is really fun for me to share. So I encourage everyone to check that out.

But no, but thank you for this, Chris. This was really fun. I'm really proud of you. I'm very excited that your success makes sense with your podcast for the way you lead a conversation. Great job. Yeah. Thank you so much for being here. Yeah, you're welcome.

I really hope you enjoyed this episode. Thank you so much for listening. If you haven't already left a rating and a review for the show in Apple Podcasts or Spotify, I would really appreciate it, especially Spotify since they just added podcast ratings. And if you have any feedback on the show, questions for me, or just want to say hi, I'm Chris at allthehacks.com or at Hutchins on Twitter. That's it for this week. I'll see you next week.