How To Start Your First Business in 48 Hours - Noah Kagan
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By the way, in case you haven't heard, my brand new book, Feel Good Productivity, is now out. It is available everywhere books are sold. And it's actually hit the New York Times and also the Sunday Times bestseller list. So thank you to everyone who's already got a copy of the book. If you've read the book already, I would love a review on Amazon. And if you haven't yet checked it out, you may like to check it out. It's available in physical format and also ebook and also audiobook everywhere books are sold. Every rejection is just a test if you want something. Ooh, every rejection is just a test if you want something. 100%.

100%. And so when she rejected me, I was like, yeah, I want this book. There's nothing else out there like it that helps you overcome your fear and helps you get the business actually started and growing. I wrote a blog post for Tim Ferriss' site in 2011. Damn, old school. Super old school. And it was like, how to start a million dollar business in a weekend.

And it went super viral. I've seen that literally so many people hold them back from success in business and in life is the fear of asking. If you don't start, you'll never get anywhere. And if you don't ask, you'll never get what you want. No ask, no get. Bloody hell. That's good shit. Where most people are and where they can be is actually closer than they think. Where they are and where they actually want to be is closer than they think. Who they are and who they think they could be is closer than they think.

But they have to start. What do you mean everyone should be an entrepreneur? That's a pretty hot take. It is the best investment you can ever make. That's part one. And part two is it's the best way to learn about yourself. And I don't know any other way to get that. Mate, I love this. I believe money can buy happiness. Hot take. Hot take coming. It's going to get spicy.

Noah, welcome to Deep Dive. How are you doing? Excellent. Fantastic. For people who might not know who you are, can you give us a quick blitz intro? Who is Noah Kagan and how did we end up getting to know each other? How did we end up here, man? Great.

Grew up in the Bay Area, worked at a cubicle monkey over at Intel. And then I kept starting all these businesses and I was number 30 at Facebook. So I was very fortunate to work directly for Zuckerberg. Got fired, which is a pretty popular story. And then I went to help start Mint.com. I was number four there. They sold for $200 million.

And then I basically tried and failed so many different times starting all these other businesses until 2010. I started AppSumo.com, number one site online for software deals. We basically promote software deals for solopreneurs, so people with small businesses. Today, we're going to do around $80 million in revenue, bootstrapped. And then I have a YouTube channel where I help underdogs. It's the people we help to inspire them on their business journeys.

And yeah, just wrote a book, Million Dollar Weekend, to help other people have their own business journeys and success. I have so much to talk to you about. All right. So we actually did, we first, I think, officially spoke

in the pandemic three years ago when you were on a deep dive live stream on my channel and there were like a few hundred to a couple thousand people watching that and we heard all about the facebook firing story all about the mint.com so i just want to sort of i kind of want to assume people have already seen that because i want to launch straight into some some new stuff that you've been working on how does that sound yeah i mean it's it is interesting because i think we think everyone's heard these stories and then sometimes you're like oh there's new people in these audiences and it was it was special because i part of the you know the

And I remember someone on my team was like, there's this guy Ali Abdul. His show's like getting started, but he seems really interesting. And that was Mitchell on our team. He sent me over to channel and that's kind of how we started connecting. He replied to one of my newsletters. He was like, it was like Mitchell at AppSumo. And I was like, yeah, because I've been following your podcast in like 2017, 18, that kind of era.

And then I was like, oh, someone on Noah Kagan's team reads my newsletter. That's pretty cool. Yeah. And that's how we got connected. And now we're mates. We are mates. And I just remember meeting with you and I was just blown away. Like, I was writing down all the things you were talking about. I was like, okay, I'm going to do that. I'm going to do that. Like, I still use Bear app. Oh, nice. And I was just like, I don't know. I was just like, this guy's impressive. There's something interesting happening with you. And is it now like three years later? Yeah. Almost four years later. Yeah. So we both go to interesting places. Yeah.

Why is the title of your book Million Dollar Weekend? What's going on there? Taking a step back, I wrote a blog post for Tim Ferriss' site in 2011. Damn, old school. Super old school. And it was just how I started all these businesses and how other people can copy my formula and

and it was like how to start a million dollar business in a weekend and it went super viral and then um fast forward today you know the title was just like million dollar weekend anytime we mentioned people like oh that's good um and so the idea was just like how do you get something started in a very short amount of time blog post worked we validate it and now the title is uh what people people like so oh broadly kind of people can obviously read the book and they should read the book to zoom in and find out all the details but what's what's the big picture here how how would i start a million dollar business in a weekend

Clearly, it would be in a hotel room like we're in now. I mean, I think what's interesting is that there's so much content about how to start a business. TikTok, social media, blogs, books. If there's so much out there, how come people have not done it that want to do it? That's the question. And so 15 years ago, I had a dream to write this book. I was with my buddy Adam Gilbert from My Body Tutor, and we were biking New York. And I was like, there's just no book out there that if I wanted to get started without taking funding, without spending a lot of time, without spending any money, there's nothing out there.

And so I wanted to be able to put that together and solve the actual hard problem, which is why aren't people being successful? And there's basically just two fears why most of the audiences that want to start a business, which I think everyone should be an entrepreneur, have not done it yet.

And then the business part is the other half of the book, which is like, how do you validate your idea? How do you check the market size? How do you check your one minute business model? That part I find a lot easier. It's just the fears that are holding people back from their success. Oh, okay. This is interesting because I also encounter this problem a lot when I speak to people who want to start a YouTube channel or want to start a business. And I'm often surprised by how much of the conversation is like therapy slash emotional support rather than like, okay, let's figure out the target market and the competitive analysis and all that stuff.

Yeah. What are the fears? You said there were two big fears? Yeah. And so in terms of the business, and we can definitely dive into like checking your business model, checking the market size, finding your first customers, and then how do you scale that stuff? Let's start with the emotional stuff. Yeah, we'll come back to that. We'll come back to that. This stuff is, and this stuff, no one recognizes how afraid they actually are of this. They won't admit it because they don't realize it. They don't even recognize it. But the two ones, and they're gigantic. Once you overcome them, and there's fun ways to actually overcome it, and a lot of people in the book have done it,

Then all the other business is easy. So the first one is the fear of starting. Yeah. And so the idea that we need more money, I need to watch more videos. I need to take another course. I need to find out more things to then feel ready. And there's never a ready. The right, the right time is right now. Just like you talk actually and feel good productivity. It's like, get going, get, go get your confidence through your action.

And then the second fear that I have, you see a lot of my YouTube channel, but I've seen that literally so many people hold them back from success in business and in life is the fear of asking. It's the fear of asking. And so if you don't start, you'll never get anywhere. And if you don't ask, you'll never get what you want. No ask, no get. You have to go figure out how do I practice asking because it's a skill.

And it's a skill I've seen as a kid. It's a skill I've practiced at, you know, through all the millions of dollars we've done through AppSumo, through all the other businesses I've been a part of. And so how to do it in fun ways so that when you get to the business stuff, you're like, yeah, I'm a starter. I'm a starter. I do things right now, not how. It's like one of the big takeaways in the book. Right now, not how, yeah. Yeah, and then moving into the asking so you can do challenges and things like that to make it fun. So that as you get into the business, you're like, all right, I'm going to, you know, we can talk about different businesses that have been started from the book. It makes starting the business a lot easier. Yeah.

One of the things that I remember talking about when we were doing a live stream three years ago, you said something about asking for discounts at Starbucks or something. And I remember saying, I'm literally sweating, even just thinking about that. And after we had that conversation, I was, I think I was still working at the time and there was a Starbucks on the way home on, on, on the way to work. And I will, I would always say to myself, you know, today's the day I'm going to follow Noah's advice, which I think Tim Ferriss also talks about this at some point. And I, I've literally never done it before.

I still, to this day, have not done it. Oh, you didn't do it? No. I kept on chickening out. I'd go up to the counter. I'd be like, and then the fear of asking would get in the way. What do you think you're afraid of?

I don't know. Rejection. I'm afraid of like, I can tell myself that like, oh, you know, it's, I don't want to put them in an awkward position because it's like, you know, this poor barista is only getting paid $5 an hour, whatever the thing might be. I don't want him to feel awkward. But really, I think I'm just afraid of, afraid of the rejection and afraid of coming across as an inconvenience, as a nuisance and stuff. Yeah. Does that vibe with what people told you? That's, that's why people have not had success in business yet.

Mm-hmm.

And you help them promote. You're just asking them for something. That's actually a good thing for them. And the more that you can actually switch that mentality, you're like, oh shit, I can start asking for a lot of different things. Maybe a raise, maybe a customer, maybe I'm going to ask a girlfriend. You know, there's all these other things you can start asking for. And the reason I love the coffee challenge is that it's a safe way to practice asking. They say no to you when you ask for it. So when you go to a coffee place or anywhere you go next time, I did it at the hotel room about an hour ago, got to the hotel friend desk and said, can I have an upgrade please for free?

And he looks at me like, what are you doing? I was like, yeah. He's like, no, it costs money. It's like, okay, thanks. Right? I'm still doing it to this day. And it's doing it in these small ways. You do it in business. But when you go and ask for the discount, it's just recognizing that once they say no, life goes forward and you can learn and get better and you get stronger.

Will you commit to doing it? Mate, I'm feeling the shaking. I'm like tearing up even just thinking like hearing you say this. Like what you're saying is like touching a part of me that has this like primal fear of like rejection, I think. Yeah. Fear of rejection, fear of failure, all of those things. We're all afraid of it. It doesn't go away. I'm still afraid. And if you look at my videos, it's like asking private jets, knocking on people's doors, doing it on the streets. And I'm still afraid. One of the ways that may be helpful for you to think about it is doing like rejection goals.

So just changing again to a game. So instead of making it this big ego hit, because like, yeah, I'm still afraid. I have anxiety doing these rejections and like going and doing it. But I'm like, all right, I'm going to go and get rejected 10 times on the street. Or I'm going to try to go and talk to like two people. And then you do it. It's like, okay, I hit my goal. It's fine. And guess what? Throughout that, you might actually get a yes. Throughout that, you might get a discount. Throughout that, you might get a customer. And so again, coming back to it's like, how do I practice starting?

And then if I can get better at asking, now let me start moving forward on these different business ideas, whether it's creating content, maybe it's a service, maybe it's e-commerce, whatever that is.

Bloody hell. That's good shit. I think one of the big areas in which I struggled and to this day still do is sales. Because just before launching my course three years ago, the YouTuber Academy, I had this real fear of selling things. I was like, no, I can't be seen to be selling something because selling is bad. I guess that's another thing you've dealt with. How do people think about selling being bad and how might we think about it instead? Yeah. Yeah.

I, so with AppSumo.com, we have to go to a partner and say, we're going to promote your product for free and we'll split the money with you. I think of selling as helping. You have an association that selling is a bad experience. I'm thinking like if I'm going to Ali and I say, hey, you have a product I can put you on AppSumo. I'm like, wow, I'm actually doing you a favor because I believe it's good for you.

Now, when you're doing selling, I think there's a simple format called LOT. It's Listen, Options, Transition. And this is just a nice way that when you're talking to someone, you could sell. So we'll do a practice thing. Sure. What is something you sold your course? Yeah, like our YouTuber course. So first, listen to your customer. Are you interested in growing YouTube? Yeah. How come you're interested in growing YouTube? Oh, because I've seen channels like Ali Abdaal and know, okay, you can succeed. And I know it's the sort of thing that could change my life. And yeah, I just like the idea of doing it. And then if you were to get my course, what would you hope to get out of it?

I know that you've kind of grown on YouTube a lot over the last few years, and I'd be hoping to learning some, I'd be hoping to learn what's the secret sauce here. Like, what do you know that other people don't? And then what would be an outcome? So like, if you were able to take my course, what would be success for you? And why would that matter to you? Oh,

Oh, I mean, if I could get to the point where I'm making enough money to quit my day job, then that would be amazing for my life. Nice. And how much money would you want to quit your day job? Oh, I think if I was making like 3K a month, I'd be able to quit my day job. And we'll talk about the freedom number, by the way. That's a separate thing that's been critical in shifting people's lives to be able to get their own million dollar weekend.

So if I hear you right, it sounds like if you want help on YouTube, what's been holding you back from success on YouTube? Honestly, I really struggle with consistency. And I make a video and then I have all these perfectionistic tendencies and I don't want to release it. And I feel this ick every time I see the video. It's not quite right. It's not quite perfect. Got it. And that means I only release three videos, even though I've been wanting to start YouTube for five years.

Yeah. So you've been talking about it and this is something that maybe you can do it in a month or in this week and change your life. So it sounds like if I hear you right, you want to work on consistency and you want to be able to make $3,000 a month. So if there's a course that can help you accomplish those things and it was only $500, how does that sound to you?

I mean, that sounds pretty good, but like, I'd want to know, I mean, surely the course can't guarantee that I'm going to get to that goal, right? Yeah. So if you pay today, I will guarantee within six months, you will get your $3,000 and you will be consistent. And if not, I'll give you your money back. Oh, that's something you want to sign up for right now. Yeah. 100% sign me up.

Okay, interesting. So if we take a step back and like break down the scenarios, what I'm trying to really do is listen. The option that I think is solving. So when I'm listening, I'm trying to get what's Ali's real problem. Yeah. And then I also want to stay in what it's worth to you, right? Your freedom number, which is a number that I believe everyone needs to figure out is

what's the number you need to be able to do your own business to be able to quit your job? Mine was $3,000. So I'm trying to understand your, your, your pain of it. I'm trying to understand the, like what's held you back and the value to it. And then options like, okay, so I understand your pain. Here's the option that will solve it. Does that solve it? You're like, yeah, then I'm transition. I'd like to get your money today in a way that will get you the result because I'm solving the problem that you have. Okay. And then what people will do, here's what, this is the, this is the big, like red flag timeout. Yeah. Yeah. Send me more info.

Oh, yeah. You know, why don't you I'll sign up when the when the course is ready. Yeah, I'll do that. And so that's a rejection. And the more that we remember came back practicing rejection. You're like, OK, so tell me what would make this a no brainer for you today. Can you educate? I just love this one of my favorite lines. I love to learn. Can you just tell me why you're not signing up today? Oh, I'm not signing up because I don't have the money right now. I have this amount of money. OK, so if we had a payment plan where you could do ten dollars a month and every month you're able to pay it off, does that does that work for you or only pay if you pay half now and half on success?

So it's more, how are you trying to understand the person to be able to transition them to success for themselves? And a lot of times not selling is powerful. Like, hey, I don't think this is right for you. I don't think I can help you. That's just as powerful as making the sale. Okay. So kind of reframing the way we think of selling rather than being a bad thing that I am making an ask or like making an offer instead of it being a bad thing is being like thinking of it in terms of

I've got the option of helping this person out. It's a great, you're helping. You're helping. I think it's awesome. Like I truly, like Million Dollar Weekend, my YouTube channel, AppSumo.com. I'm like, if you have a software company and you want customers, I truly believe it's my job to tell you about AppSumo.

And if you don't, if it's not right for you, that's okay. But for someone who wants promotion, like, let me understand what your needs are. And if it aligns with what I can do, yeah, I'm going to transition them to the next steps of the sale. What are some other areas of life in which you have done or people that, you know, have done the asking thing and it's led to interesting outcomes? Yeah. I mean, you'll look at some of my YouTube videos specifically. I said it's at a private airport and I asked people if I could get on the private jet and I got basically like a hundred thousand dollar flight to Boston.

That was a pretty good ask. That was cool. Yeah. You know, and what's crazy about that was that I only stood out there for about 10 minutes. Yeah. I didn't like have anything flashy. It was just, it's accessible for everyone. I think this is, there's a misconception that like, oh, because they have something or they didn't. No, I just stood outside with a piece of paper, normal clothes on and just ask people like, hey, can I come see your plane? I'd love to see your plane. And the reality is that when you start asking for things, you realize that people are actually a lot friendlier than you think too. Yeah. So,

A guy named Jake who read Million Dollar Weekend. He's exactly what you said, actually. He's been wanting to start his own business for two years, 24 months. He's done nothing, which is 99% of people. Yeah. Right. It's the same thing in productivity. Like they want to do something, they want to do something, but they don't do it. And so I was like, Jake, let's do something now, not how. Let's just make sure we're going today. Let's just do it right now. Let's call someone with your business idea. I won't put out his business ideas around golf trips. I'll leave it at that. Let's call someone right now and see if they'll buy your golf trip.

And he's, you know, it's like, he's like, oh shit, really? I'm like, yeah, let's do it right now. And he was shocked how friendly someone was and how excited they were to give him money. I know, but we have this fear like, oh, I'm bugging them. Yeah. I'm harassing them. And Jake was, that belief in him of what he's trying to offer was so exciting for these other people. And I have the same thing when I'm, I did another video where I asked first class passengers,

Yeah.

And that was just because asking. That was just because of an ask. It wasn't anything that where most people are and where they can be is actually closer than they think. Where they are and where they actually want to be is closer than they think. Who they are and who they think they could be is closer than they think. But they have to start. You can't sit back. You can't watch more. You can't. There's no more to learn. A lot of times it's about getting going so you can get to that place.

So we've talked about, talked about fear of asking. Can you tell me more about this fear of starting? Like with asking, like I feel the fear of asking. I don't think I feel the fear of starting, but I'm sure I know when it comes to YouTube, loads of people have that fear of starting. What's it like in the business thing? Like what stories are people telling themselves? Yeah.

Most people tell themselves they're not ready. They say they don't have the right business idea. Have you ever talked to people? You have your YouTube account. How many people say, I don't have anything to talk about on YouTube? Yeah, like 80% of them. Most of the people. If they just started the YouTube channel today, right now, if their dream is to be a YouTuber like we are, or maybe have an e-commerce business, or maybe it's a service business, or maybe whatever it is. It doesn't have to be a millionaire. It could be a grocery-nair to make grocery money. It could be to make $100 so you can have a nice meal once a month. The whole opportunity is just getting going.

And so what are ways that people can just get going and stop being sideliners, what I call them. So one way to get going is your freedom number. Your freedom number is what you said, which what is your what was your number where you felt comfortable quitting your medical job?

Hmm. I felt comfortable taking a break when that number was like 10K a month. Yeah. I felt comfortable quitting when that number was 100K a month. That's another episode. That's the following episode. But thinking about, okay, it's actually probably a lot smaller of a number to be able to quit my job and have freedom than I realize. Yeah. I realized like a lot of the things, like in reality, if I had a job that I didn't like,

And I was able to make, I don't know, two or three K a month to pay my expenses and my rent and stuff. Yeah. That would be the perfect, the perfect number to be like, you know what? Screw this. I'm going to do my own thing. Yeah. I mean, it seemed risky to me to have a day job. It seemed not risky to start my own business and everyone should be an entrepreneur because being, having money and the ability to work in hotel rooms or stay at home with your kid, which I'm looking forward to doing is,

I want that opportunity. And that's available for everyone. It's not exclusive, but you have to get started. Yeah. What do you mean everyone should be an entrepreneur? That's a pretty hot take. I think everyone should be an entrepreneur. Being rich is great. I don't know if that's a hot take anymore. I don't know if you're allowed to say people should be rich or not rich, but I've been poor for a long time and I've lived poor for a long time. And the reality that everyone, it's accessible to everyone to be rich.

And being an entrepreneur is the best return on getting rich. Let's take just like zoom back for a second. What's a great stock market return annually? The 8%. Whoa. Okay. Real estate. 10%. 7 to 15%. And then you have to put money down and all this stuff. Yeah. T-bills or interest bills, 5%. What else?

Government bonds. Yeah. Government bonds. I don't know what you guys have in the UK. 7% and previously 0%. Yeah. Okay. Entrepreneurship. Unlimited. Yeah. Not even saying books. I'm saying if you start your own business, there is literally no upside to what you can create. Yeah. It is the best investment you can ever make is starting your own business. And that's part one. And part two is it's the best way to learn about yourself. Learning how to start and overcoming some of the fear you have. Like what happens when my friends say no to my business? Hmm.

What happens that I start, it doesn't work, but I keep going and I find that I have courage and I could do these things. Exactly. And you start realizing like, and I've learned more than through business by myself than anything else. And you realize like, I have a lot more capable and a lot more able to do things than I realized. And I don't know any other way to get that, that I've seen as effective as one, as a return on investment. But secondly, just as a return on yourself.

What about people who say, you know, that there'll be some people listening to this and think, screw this guy. Like not everyone should be an entrepreneur. What if I like my day job and I don't want to deal with the stress of being an entrepreneur and I just want to go home and go to work, collect the paycheck and come home and then spend time with my family. Yeah, I think they can do that and be an entrepreneur. And to be an entrepreneur, it doesn't, I think where there's a misconception is to become a millionaire, you have to make a dollar and that's where people get hung up. To become a millionaire, you have to start with making $1.

And everyone, by the way, can right now on their phone message someone to get a dollar. Just right now. Right now. Right now they can message someone. But to start, you have to get to become a millionaire, which is what people are like, oh, I want to be a millionaire. No, just get a dollar and get going. And that's how you become a millionaire, a multimillionaire, a billionaire. Now to be an entrepreneur...

I think where people have the misconception is, well, I need to make a lot of money to be an entrepreneur. I need to make millions or anything. No, you can make a hundred bucks a month doing cookies. Like there's a woman, Jennifer, who's read Million Dollar Weekend out in Dallas. She's a school teacher. And she's like, I just want to make a few extra dollars a month for my family. And so the ability to have creative control, the ability to create things with your hobbies and your free time,

I think that's what people all should be doing. And if they don't like it, fine, you don't have to. But I think one, you got a lot of upside with the money. If that's what you want as well, I think you're going to learn more doing that than anything else. Oh, interesting. Okay. So you're defining, how are you defining entrepreneur then? How do you define productivity? I define productivity in a very holistic way. Almost too holistic, some might say. I think entrepreneur in the simplest form. Yeah. I believe it's just, it's someone who creates. Yeah. Someone who creates.

So that doesn't mean it has to be making so much money. I think that's a big misconception of the more mentality we live in. Like how many subscribers you want more? How much money you want more? How much food you want more? It's like, no, I want a little bit and I'm okay with that. And that's amazing. A power of entrepreneurship that that's accessible to anyone, anywhere, especially now, now it's easier than ever to start a business.

So would you say like, you know, back when I was in school, I was freelancing as a web developer on the side. Does that count as entrepreneurship or is that like a different kind of thing? Is that not what we're talking about here? That's exactly what we're talking about. Okay. I think it's expressing yourself, finding out who you are through business. That's nice. I like that. Yeah, it's great. I mean, and it's accessible to anyone and it doesn't have to be, there's not a set way of doing it. Like on my YouTube channel, there's a guy, Larry Janeski. He does $600 million a year with basements.

I've barely ever been in a basement. I don't know if you guys have in the UK. In California, we don't. Or there is a woman, Pam, we knocked on her door. Just knocked on her door. She's doing strawberries. Strawberries and now wine. That's how they got rich. And it doesn't mean you have to get rich, even though being rich is great. And I would encourage everyone to do it. I really do. Yeah.

But just finding some activity and hobby that you're really interested in for yourself that gives you something creatively as well as an upside that's unlimited. Okay. So it sounds like you're saying that, like, even if someone has a day job, then they can learn a lot about themselves and they can get some extra pocket money by doing something on the side, whether it's baking cookies, selling strawberries, selling wine, or starting a YouTube channel, doing web development. And eventually the people who get going are the ones who then have the option of taking it forward if they want. Have you ever been fired?

Have I ever been fired? No, I've never been fired. What's it like? That was good. That was good. That was good. That was good. You realize that everyone is replaceable and you don't have as much control in your life as you think. And especially today where interest rates are high, there might be coming down, mortgage rates over the place, companies are back, are cutting back.

I think now more than ever, people need to figure out for themselves how to at least have that option available to them. Whether you work at AppSumo, we have a lot of people with their own business at AppSumo. We encourage it.

But in other companies, like if you have a day job that you like, like they could still get rid of you at any moment, any moment. There's no obligation to them. And so having your own option that you've created that you have one, it's fun, at least gives you that option so that if things don't go your way, you're in control of something. Nice. Mate, I love this. I'm fully, fully on board with, with, with what you're saying. I think in the past, I've been hesitant to say everyone should become an entrepreneur because I've always got the thing of like, well, what if I enjoy my job and all, and all this kind of stuff. And I've always said that like, well, okay, yeah,

But wouldn't it be nice? You know, lots of people in the pandemic lost their jobs. And wouldn't it be nice to just not be so reliant on a single employer? Because when you have a job, you're reliant on a single person to pay your paycheck and to support your family. And that person is not you. That person is your boss or your boss's boss or the HR person or the person doing the company. And you never know what might happen.

And so I've always been very bullish on people learning skills on the side and then trying to find a way to monetize those skills. Yeah, man. You just learn so much about yourself. You learn so much. It's fun. Yeah, it's fun. The difference in what I believe Million Dollar Weekend processes should be fun. And I talked to someone who read the book and I asked him like, what about Million Dollar Weekend? What is it that you wanted? He's like, I didn't want to live a what if life. I didn't want to leave. I didn't want to live a what if life. I wanted to know that I have dreams of how I want to spend my day, which is with his kids. Yeah.

And I didn't want to not be able to take that chance now and lead by example, showing the kids how he is so that he has that opportunity one day in the future. But you'll never get there unless you start. Yeah. And then sticking with it, which is law of 100, which is like doing these things and sticking with these things. What do you mean? What's law of 100? So you've started YouTube. You've started a business. Most people quit too soon.

Yeah. You've seen it all the time. I see it all the time. And so as we start these things and we make a little bit of money, how do I stick with it? So Lab 100 is how do you apply to 100 days or 100 videos or 100 emails or 100 calls, whatever it is. For me, it was podcasts. I quit too soon. And I was basically getting tons of downloads per episode. But because it was 30,000 downloads and it wasn't 100,000 downloads, I quit at around 40 podcasts. If I would have just stayed,

And so I've noticed this trend where the people who are most successful started and then they need some framework to stick with it. So for me, it was this law of 100 to actually be able to stick with YouTube now three years and then continuing. I'm now on a 10 year plan for YouTube. And so just finding that people need a framework to be able to, as they start something now, okay, let's call it one customer day. Don't make it a big thing. Just first, if you have a day job and you got kids and you got a family, that's a lot going on. One call a day, one social post a day, one email a day, whatever it is, just pick a hundred of them and then stick with it.

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deepdive.com forward slash deep dive. And that link is going to be in the show notes and also in the video description if it's easier for you to click on it. And if you sign up via that link or that URL in the next month, then you will get a completely free 30 day trial of snipped and then you can try it out for the entire 30 days and you can take all these notes and you can see if it vibes with you. So thank you so much snipped for sponsoring this episode. When I started YouTube in 2017, I told myself my first 100 videos are going to be crap. So I'm just going to get through the first 100 videos and then I'll reassess. And how'd that go?

video number 52 I hit a thousand subscribers video number 82 went viral and video number 82 took me to like 10,000 video number 93 went viral took me to 50,000 and by the time I got to 100 videos I was on like I don't know 50 58,000 subscribers and I had no idea that that's what was going to happen I just knew that

I've got, I'm going to do at least a hundred videos. Yeah. I think where most people are finding their mistakes is that they're not starting it. Like my first YouTube video, you can go on the channel and see it. It's me shirtless, which is not impressive. I'll tell you that. It was just me shirtless in my room doing this with the same phone that everyone else has. I just posted it very little. And

I got a little bit of a response. I got 300 views. And it was like, oh, I like doing this. And so it doesn't mean you should just do things you hate and stick with it forever, but find something you enjoy. And so that I did that. And then I was like, oh, this is kind of fun and people like it. And so my point for everyone is accessible. You don't need thousands of dollars a camera or fancy microphones or lighting. You just need your phone and getting going and then sticking with it and

Now, you know, I just bought like this A7S III is a $3,000 camera. You have lenses, these mics are hundreds of dollars. But that's over time, right? Same as your content, but you got started. You stuck with it. And as you stick with it, it keeps improving. The first vlog that I made, I was watching Casey Neistat's vlogs and Peter McKinnon's vlogs in 2017. I was in Cambodia on my medical elective where I was doing like this plastic surgery type stuff. And I remember thinking I should start a vlog.

And I remember thinking, I need to do it right now. Otherwise, it's not going to happen. So I took out my phone. I lay on the bed and I said, guys, I'm starting a vlog. And the video is still on the channel. People watch it. People comment on it to this day. That is awesome. Where I'm like, I know, I knew that if I, you know, I had to just get started like this. I had a camera, but I was like, if I wait to set up the camera, it's just not, I need to take action as soon as I have the inspiration. And

And that video is on the channel. And that was the start of my vlog, which was the start of my YouTube channel being something about something other than how to get into medical school. I have seen your day in the life a few years ago vlog where you had medical school walking around with your camera. I was like, this is a pretty good video. But we do a lot of beta testing with the book. And so we have 1,200 people on our beta team. And every weekend I go with five people to do the book.

And then we survey and we survey, okay, what's your biggest takeaway of the book? And by far, the number one thing is the now not how mindset. And it's this mindset of how do I just do this thing right now? You want to post a video? Great. You want to sell someone? Great. You're interested in maybe selling cookies even? Post it on social media right now.

Now, not how. Just message your mom. Message your cousin. Message whoever. Maybe it's a colleague, whatever it is. And you start realizing you can apply this in kind of small ways. Like, I don't want to take out the trash. Well, what's now, not how? Just go and take your trash out right now. That's obviously like a silly way. But then you start thinking in wanting to start a business or wanting to start a content channel. Okay, I want to put a video, but I don't know what I'm going to talk about. Just talk about anything. It doesn't even matter. Just get it out.

Yeah, this is exactly what we say in our YouTuber Foundations course, which is a course for complete beginners getting started with YouTube. Yeah. And like,

The third or so lesson in that is me being like, okay, you're not going to take out your phone. You're going to hit record and you're going to talk to it and say why you're starting a YouTube channel and you're going to upload it on the YouTube app that's on your phone. And you're just going to do that right now. And so many people, their first YouTube video has been just that one where they're like, yeah, I'm making, and they always title it, Ali Abdaal made me do this or something. Great, great. Hi, I'm taking Ali Abdaal's course. He made me do this. I've been wanting to start a YouTube channel for 10 years and I haven't done it, but finally I'm going to take action and I'm doing the thing.

and just reducing the friction, lowering the bar and just making it happen. I guess two questions for you. One, what would you tell yourself when you were first starting now to kind of be like the now, not how? And then how, frankly, how grateful are you that you got started? Mate, I think I didn't have the terminology for that, but I'd been absorbing the Tim Ferriss personal development world for so long that I knew that like, because I wanted to be a YouTuber since like 2010. And

And it took me until 2016 to make one video and then until 2017 to actually start, actually commit to the decision of making YouTube videos because I was thinking I want to be a music YouTuber. And every summer, like I had these friends who were good at singing and I was like, I want to learn the piano and the guitar. And we were like, no, but we haven't got the right equipment yet.

This was like pre phones, but actually my brother had a camera. We could have just filmed with that. It could, it would have been so easy, but I was like, no, I need, I need to have the perfect microphone. I need to have the perfect setup. And obviously I can't, I can't do any of this until I have the perfect setup. And I waited seven years to start make, to make my first YouTube video. And in that, in that time, I absorbed a lot of this personal development stuff. And I realized this is a dumb ass attitude. Let me just make the bloody video. And I am so immensely grateful. Every single good thing has happened in my life as a result of starting the YouTube channel seven years ago. It's insane.

Yeah. Like half the friends I've got now are friends I've made through the internet, probably more than half my relationship. I got in through the internet in a roundabout way. All of the money that I've ever made has been through the internet. It's just fucking incredible. Like how much that one decision to start has just changed the trajectory of my life. And that's what's holding people back. And then, you know, you have ideas, you validate and you grow it. If you can just get past yourself,

then getting the business stuff is easy, but it's getting that stuff going. I think there's also this other comment of how can, like, I'm so grateful. I want to thank my 13 year, 13 years ago self. You're thanking your seven years ago self. I think for everyone out there, like what five years from today self are you going to thank for what you're doing right now? What are you going to thank yourself today in five years? You're like, Oh, I'm so glad. Okay. I just finally started the thing I've been talking to my friends about. I'm thinking about, I finally just got going. And in five years, they'll be like,

Like even now, I'm so grateful 13 years ago, I just got going with AppSumo. Yeah. So lucky, so grateful that I started it and stuck with it. Yeah. This thing, I really like this framework of like, what would you be grateful for, for yourself now, five years from now? I used it-

A few years ago, I had this hole in my teeth and my smile wasn't very nice. And it was a decision to get Invisalign. And it was a process that was going to take two years. And I kept on putting it off because I was like, oh, no, but like they say, you can't drink coffee. And I was working at the time. And then the pandemic hit. And I was like, you know what? Now I have no excuses now. I need to get Invisalign right now. And two years later, my teeth look really nice. And now I look at my old videos. I'm like, what?

Similarly, I started taking some meds for my hair loss in 2019 when I had almost no hair. And I was like, two years from now, I'm going to be grateful for this decision. And that was the thing that got me to take those meds. And so I think this idea of now not how applies in so many areas of life, this thing of what can you start today that your future self would be grateful for? Whether it's taking care of your health or calling your mom more often or starting that business or starting that channel, whatever the thing might be. I think we're surprised about it's not as hard as we thought.

Yeah. Like, oh, if I finally, you know, all these people are going to say this, all these voices that we have in our head, which everyone has, like you still have it. I said, we all have it, but you get going. And then you actually realize through action, you get confidence through practice, you get confidence and you kind of keep practicing and keep going. You're like, huh, I actually can do these things, but that it's by getting into the game, into the arena starting that you can then get to these other places. Yeah. I really like the idea that confidence is domain specific.

Like you can have a CEO who's super, super confident in the boardroom, but who's really unconfident when he goes to a nightclub.

because he hasn't put in the reps it's domain specific you can get someone who's like incredible on stage but sucks talking to a camera when making a youtube video because confidence is domain specific and that means if you're not if you're not confident at something that's okay you just haven't put in the reps yet so you can just get started and start putting in the reps and you can think about something you are confident with and think were you born confident in that thing or did you just practice quite a lot and usually it's like i practice quite a lot to become confident yeah the thing i think that's a great point yeah mate

Some good stuff. I want to talk to you a little bit about the, again, it feels like a bit of a hot take to be like, being rich is great. Because I think the narrative that we're told, and I speak to a bunch of people who are very rich, and they're always like, yeah, but beyond a certain point, money doesn't really buy more happiness and all of that kind of stuff. Often the people I speak to are like high-flying entrepreneurs who have sacrificed their health and their relationships for the sake of making more money. So how do you think about money and the acquisition of more wealth?

I believe. No. Yeah, I know. It's going to get spicy. I believe money can buy happiness. Okay. I agree. Tell me more. So, taking a step back, I do believe a lot of people when they're born in a certain class economically, and this is what I believe, are believing that they have to stay there. I grew up middle class, so I stay middle class. That's how I felt. I felt my parents had normal jobs. My dad was an engineer. My mom was a nurse. And I was like, I guess that's just where you stay.

And realizing there's all these levels to life and realizing you can do any kind of life you want. There's no, there's no rule to how you live. It's how you ever want it. I remember as I'm dating this Venezuelan woman and she's in Spain and I kept thinking, I don't know, but that's not part of like the normal plan. I had this buddy Tynan, you know, I love Tynan. He's like, you make the rule, you create it and money, which is available to everyone. Sometimes it's harder depending on how you were born and how you're certain situations, but it's available.

And you can create it. And I just lived so middle class and poor, basically until COVID. I was a multi multi multimillionaire. And then when COVID happened, I was just realizing like, holy shit, like, I have all this money, and I've worked so hard to get it, I'm just not enjoying it. And I started testing it. So one of the things about being an entrepreneur is that we make it so scary.

We're like, oh, it's oh my God, it's this big ass thing. You have to quit your job. Don't quit your job. That's risky. Yeah. Having a day job you hate. That's also risky. But start testing things out. And so I started experimenting, enjoying money. I started experimenting. Like, can I buy happiness with money? Because I was told that you can't. That's what they say. And I was like, let me let me question this thing. And I started renting like I rented a Malibu beach house for 25K.

And I was like, oh yeah, money can definitely buy happiness. Then I rented another house in Austin on the lake. That was 7,000. Everything was cheaper, by the way, during COVID. And, you know, if you want million dollar experiences, you could, I rented a Lambo here in LA a few years ago during that experience for $250 on Turo. Oh, it was great. It's not bad. And I was like, I don't give two shits to have a Lambo. Yeah. You tested it out and realized you didn't want it. I didn't. Yeah. I experimented. And I think if you can think of how to, how do I have an experiment or mindset in these different areas of life?

Maybe I can experiment being rich. See if I actually like being rich. Maybe I can experiment having a six pack, which everyone has and see if you actually want. I've had a six pack. I'm like, it sucks. I like drinking and eating. I don't want to live that life. And actually enjoying the money now. I'm like, this is so great. Not worrying about which groceries I have to buy. Yeah. Going to a store. And it's, it's crazy because right now it's a scary, hard time for a lot of people.

Like you go to the grocery store, you're like, you want to buy these things. You're like, I don't know if I can get all that. You want to fly somewhere. I was talking to someone recently and they're like, yeah, it's expensive to get flights. I was like, oh, really? And I don't mean that as an arrogant thing or that I'm totally disconnected from reality. But the idea of starting your own business, being an entrepreneur, having money, and you have these choices that you can do anything you want. And if you want to work all day, great. Or for me, as I'm having a family, I now have the ability to spend money to have a lot of my free time.

Like I can be, everyone can be a time millionaire and money makes that a lot easier. And so I can have staff, which I don't want to have staff do everything for my child, but I can have do something so I can do some hard parts and then enjoy the other parts that I want. So taking a step back, at least create your own business so you have this option. And if you're like, I hate all these money things and you did the experiment and you don't want to do it, fine, give the money away or just go do everything you want to do. But I have found like I can do just so many different cool things for myself that it's accessible to everyone.

Like I can have two bikes that are very expensive here and in Spain. So I don't have to worry about which bike I'm riding. Yeah. And it's just so great. I'm so much happier having money. And it is, you know, Chris Williamson, you know, Chris, he had this thing. It's a bias, right? Because I have money now. But I remember having no money and I was sleeping on floors for a year. I was sleeping on my parents' couch last night and it brought back memories of it. I'm just working so hard and not enjoying it. I was just on, there's a guy, Parnash, and then I was living on Shivani's, her couch and

And it was just like these really tough times. And I was making okay money. And it was, it's like, wow, having money so that I can hire coaches, having money so I can hire therapists and feel better about myself and all these things that open up to me is just what everyone should do. And it's, again, I have to say it's available. It's not some exclusive club. So many people get rich from doing stands, from bottle caps. It's not only making a YouTube channel or doing e-commerce. You can do a restaurant. You can do a lot of different things. It's just finding the thing you actually enjoy.

Yeah, I think when it comes to this money thing, a lot of times, and as I'm saying this, I think I do this to myself even now, which I think people tell themselves a story that they feel becoming rich is, let's say, I don't know, even getting an extra 5k a month. That to them feels unattainable. And therefore they tell themselves, I don't want it anyway.

Whereas if you just gave people 60K, an extra 60K for the year, like a raise, they'd be over the moon if the boss just gave them a 60K raise. But if you say, would you like to build a business on the side that makes you 5K a month? And if they think it's unachievable, they'll say, oh, I don't want that anyway. Oh, people, who needs money? Money doesn't buy happiness. And the real things in life are relationships and health. And that is also true to an extent. I don't think I am that much happier, as it were, right now than I was when I had a lot less money.

I'm happier in the sense that I'm not doing my day job, which was the thing that was bringing me unhappiness. And so money allowed me to have that option. And I'm quite a risk averse guy. So I needed to, I literally needed a million in the bank to feel comfortable quitting my 40K day job to feel like, you know, that was a, you know, a risk worth taking.

But I think there's this story that a lot of us have. And even now, we'll do, I don't know, 5 million revenue this year with 60% margins. And Sam Parr from My First Million was challenging me this morning. He was like, what do you really want? What's your goal for growing the business? And I was like, I don't really have one. I just want to make content and teach and stuff. And I think that's true to an extent. But I always wonder, am I afraid of trying to go for 10 million revenue? Am I afraid of trying to go for the bigger numbers? Yeah.

Or is there something like I also think there's something to the fact that I love what I'm doing and I don't want to I don't want to do not fun things for the sake of more money. Does any of that make sense? Like, yeah. Yeah. How do you square those things? A few different things. So part one is once you have your freedom number, which yours was ten thousand. Mine was three thousand dollars and everyone should figure out what's your freedom number. Do something you actually enjoy to get that freedom number. Yeah.

And if it's cookies, for me, it was promoting stuff. I love promoting. That's what AppSumo is. And then it was like, all right, well, I'm going to do this thing and enjoy it. And then it turns out it can actually make millions of dollars, which we go through in Million Dollar Weekend, which is like, all right, what's your market? Yeah. Make sure the right market, we can show you the right business model. So you can actually use your freedom and do the things you enjoy. Now, in terms of your second question, I think that that's actually a problem.

It's the Silicon Valley tech bros, which I come from, but I left. I went to the Midwest and now Europe. I spend a lot of time in Spain. It's the problem is that they're just having more for more sake. And they have not realized like when is it enough? Like this year, AppSumo did around $7 million in profit, which is insane. It's insane. Like I was happy with $36,000 a year. And that's profit. And I'll just be super candid. I can take all of it. I can just take that money and just like put it in my bank.

doesn't like there's some amount at a few million dollars where it's enough for me. So let me give it to the team, which we did. Let's take everyone to Mexico, which we did. Let's go invest in servers. Let's go invest in ads. Let me give it to my business partner. And it's recognizing when it's enough for what, how you actually want to live. And that's the power, right? You talk to certain people,

I think that's what they think they're supposed to be telling you. Oh, you're supposed to grow super fast. And you know what? It's like, I actually want to spend, if I can spend my whole day making sure I'm a good parent and a good partner and do my work, like that to me is ideal. I'm not willing to sacrifice that just to make more money for more sake. Like we had a board meeting and I love our board members because they challenged me. It's like Andrew Chan, who's awesome. Roger T. Smookergy from Indeed. We got Moody from Glastonbury and Zapier. He's amazing. And they're like, you're not growing fast enough. And I'm like, we're actually trying to grow slower.

We're trying to go slower for longer.

And all that is is coming back into yourself. But what I've noticed for me, and I think for everyone out there, set less ambitious goals. That's the thing I talk about in the book as well. Set less ambitious goals is what you talk about in your book. And if that you can sustain, you said in your book, LeBron James is the slowest walker, one of them in the NBA. And he is literally, you know, what, 20 years in the NBA? And so with AppSumo, I love our board members. And there's things to take away from how they challenge us. And everyone should get a board or elite advisors, which we can talk about.

But we're going to grow at 7% next year. That's our goal. And people are like, 7%? You're going to go to sleep? You're going to even try? But what we have noticed is that I don't want to sell. I don't want to go public because I like what I get to do. I don't have to have a job. And by having less ambitious goals, we can have more freedom. We're not stressing to make money.

And that leads us to more creativity, which then ultimately leads to a more successful business from a money and frankly, enjoyment perspective. And that has been a counterintuitive thing that I've learned over the years of running different companies where I used to set like, if we're not 10Xing this year, then we failed, which is what our advisors say. And so-

I do think there's ways of doing that, which is doing it in smaller segments. But again, coming back to how you actually want to live your life and operate your business. And yes, make a million a year, two million a year. It's way more than enough for almost everyone. But at least get to that point that you can have that option. But then I think if you have to try to go super fast, it's unnecessary. It's not necessarily what you want. So it sounds like you also agree that at some point there is diminishing returns to more money. 100%. It's just that.

The study from 20 years ago might say it's 70K, but you and I probably would say it's in the few million range or something. Yeah. And everyone who's like, I want to be a billionaire, bullshit. Who cares to be a billionaire? What are you going to do? You want to donate all? Go donate all. Like, oh, if I help a million people, it's like, do you really want to help a million? Why not help one? And start right now to help one.

What I've recognized though is that 70,000 today, people who make a hundred thousand, I feel are poor. And I don't mean to insult poor people or rich people or anything like that, but I find it just hard to live even as a millionaire. I'm like, how do people live? I don't know how it is in London. It's super expensive in America. And so the only way you can actually be able to have freedom to be able to make choices where you're not sweating this stuff, start a business.

And then yes, get to some point where it's enough. And then you can share it with other people. Like one of my yearly goals, this has been a yearly goal every year is to spend all the money on myself or others or donate it. And what it forced me to do was like, okay, I can't keep this. Like there's the book die with zero, which I know you like.

I have to spend it on others. Yeah. I have to get someone a nice gift. Like, so I'm going and seeing, oh, this will come out later. I'm going to give some Rolexes to people. Oh, nice. But I'm like, yeah, that could be a very generous gift for them. They'll be like, holy shit. Or I wear this Rolex because I got my girlfriend pregnant. And so I said, once I finally get not someone pregnant like that, but me and my two best friends would all have matching Rolexes. And this was our dream.

So now all three of us have women and we have, we're all have, uh, our women are pregnant or have kids and it's just like a special thing for us. And that's just having that goal that I, you can, every year it's in my goal list, like spend a lot of money on myself or others or donate it. And so these are some examples of having the money makes it easier and exciting to go and do that stuff. What are the, uh, for you, what have been the, I guess, uh,

annual income step changes in like your because so if you're earning 10k a month to 10k a year yeah presumably pretty miserable when you were earning 40k you're sort of not living living it up 100k 500k a million five three million yeah what can you remember like what were the meaningful numbers that changed your life circumstances in a way that actually made you happier

I think I was miserable until I was about 40. Not miserable, like super horrible, but just never, not really appreciating how good life is. And not much has changed except my mentality. Okay. So it's about the money and more about the way you've approached life. Well, the thing that's crazy, and I keep saying this, is that it's not exclusive. Yeah. It's available to everyone.

And, you know, one of my good buddies, Tynan, he talks about, he's like, the person you are and the person you want to be is a lot closer than you think. Like you're probably 99% there. And there's just like 1% of things you want to change. And if you zoom out on this person you are today, you can just zoom out on where you are today. You, me, everyone, frankly. Life's already pretty fucking great. Yeah. We have running water. Yeah. If someone's watching this, life is pretty fucking great. It comes out of a fucking faucet. You literally do this and like, where does that water come from? No one knows. Yeah. And it's amazing. We have electricity. Every day I plug in my laptop, I'm like...

That whole electricity thing, whoever, that Thomas Edison guy or some woman who invented it, God bless them. So just taking a step back, life is already so dope if we can just accept that. And where we want to be with its money or life, we're much closer than we even realize if we get going. Now, in terms of my income, I'll tell you my salaries exactly. So I graduated 2004. Intel, I made $55,000. Then Facebook, I made $65,000. Then I went to Mint and I made $100,000. Then I started my own company, so I went down.

But I started making $40,000, $40,000, $75,000, $120,000, $300,000. Then I started my own company and went down to zero. So AppSumo was zero, $40,000, $75,000, $120,000. And then about six years into AppSumo, I noticed that I just didn't have anything to show for it.

And meaning that a lot of, if you're starting certain companies in tech space, you want to sell your equity, go public, liquid. I was like, I don't ever want to do that. That's not my interest. But I don't really have that much in the bank that I'd feel comfortable. And candidly, I felt a little...

I felt it was hard to take the money when I'm like, there's other people in the company who are doing the work. The only difference was I started. And so how do I balance making sure they're taken care of and then I'm taken care of and what I feel is right? And so about six years into AppSumo, I started paying myself half a million. Yep.

And then the past every year, it's been seven figures. So like one to three million. And that, but to be clear, that's only if we make money. So when COVID happened, we had about a one and a half percent profit margin. So I made less than a million. And that was about two years of that. Yeah. And so this year, thank God, it's been an amazing year. It's going to be a few million dollars. And so, which blows my mind. And so this is not really relevant for everyone else necessarily. But when I, I didn't actually feel that I had money until I had $3 million cash. In the bank? In the bank. Liquid. Liquid. Yeah.

Totally arbitrary. And my father started his own copier business. He sold copiers door to door. I don't even know if we have copiers anymore. I haven't seen a copier in a while. And he built a business and through his own choices, like did a lot of drugs and did a lot of alcohol and lost his entire business. And I remember just as a kid feeling really scared of doing the same thing where, oh, I'm drinking or I'm doing drugs. Like I'm definitely going to ruin all these things I've created.

And so at that point when I had just the cash and I have like a disproportionate amount of cash in the bank, because I wanted if everything ends, like I want to be able to survive. And so at $3 million cash, I felt like, okay, I can survive the rest of my life safely. If I think of myself like six years ago, before I started the YouTube channel, before I started my business, I should have been like 10 years ago. Damn, I'm old. Something like an extra 2K a month would have meant like the entire world.

Because when you're making like zero or like 3K a month, an extra 2K, it's like, whoa, I'm practically doubling my salary. And now I can like go on that vacation or now I can buy a MacBook Pro instead of MacBook Air or whatever the thing might be. But then as I grew the business more and more, that number obviously changed. But now I'm sort of in the same ballpark as you are where like I'll probably take on maybe two and a bit million this year.

And I feel like that's more than enough. That's more than enough. Like, the name goes into the S&P. Like, you know, I've got a bunch of rental properties. Oh, sorry to hear that. I know. It's awful. It's actually pretty annoying. I hate it. This is a real, like, first world problem. But they're still part of me. Like, every now and then, when I speak to someone like Sam and Sean who have such conviction that, like, yeah, you've got to go for 10 million, I'm like, huh. No. Are they... Am I missing something that these guys understand? Because, for example...

You and I are telling people that like, you should make more money and get up to 3 million. And someone listening to this or watching this might be thinking, bruv,

How could you, 3 million? I'd be happy with an extra 10K. And so, but we're like, that person's missing something because they don't know how great it is to be at 3 million. So are Sam and Sean like not missing? Are we missing something by not being in the tens of millions a year in terms of income? Is like, I guess something that I think about. I think most of the people that are saying, bro, I'm not at like a G even, right? Their bigger problem is not that they're not at a million. They're sweating the million or the 10G, but they're not even getting a dollar.

That's the big holdup is that they got to get going is that 13 years ago I made zero. Yeah. And then I made 40 and then I made 75 and then it was like flat. And then eventually it's like, holy shit, like I can actually make certain money, but it's realizing I got to get started now thinking about a freedom number. Yeah. So I can actually do the work I really want to do, which was promoting software deals. It's, I love it. I can't believe this. I literally can't not believe my life. I get to hang out with you, get to write a book, get to do YouTube channel. We promote software and I'm like in LA, like this is unbelievable.

And it's not exclusive. There's not some club that I got access to that no one else can. Yeah. I did have advantages that like some people do and some people don't. But it's like if people get going, have their freedom number, get there.

And that's like, huh, actually I've experimented having maybe a nicer bicycle or maybe a nicer guitar or maybe they go on nicer vacations. Like, yeah, I want this all the time. Not when you're 60. I'd rather be rich at 40 than rich at 60, which is what my parents are and which most people are. It's like, all right, I'm going to work hard, save a bunch of money. And then maybe I'll get one like economy plus seat when I'm 65. It's like economy plus is pretty good. It's not bad. It's not bad. But like the lie flat seats, you know, and you can spend a little bit more money and enjoy yourself. Yeah.

I'd rather have that at 40. And so just getting going is that person's problem. Not actually, I think millions, if you're making a few million dollars a year, you don't have any problems. Maybe you have some like mental stuff about happiness and contentment, but like you can go to therapy, do different other experiences and other ways of actually just recognizing how great life actually is.

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I really like this idea of thinking in experiments. Like in my book, the whole thing is like, try this experiment in your life and see what happens. And back in the day when I was kind of torn between, do I do part-time medicine and part-time YouTube and stuff? I was like, oh, why don't I just run the experiment? And so I ran the experiment for a few weeks. I did part-time medicine, part-time YouTube. And I realized I don't like doing part-time medicine. Yeah.

And then I was interviewed on Lewis Howes' podcast, and he talked me out of ever going back to medicine. Damn, pretty good show. Yeah, because we were talking about passive income and stuff. And then I said to him, like, yeah, you know, I like the idea of being a doctor part-time. And he was like, why? And I was like, oh, um...

because like security and stuff. And he was like, really? Like how long would it take you to make 100K a year if you lost everything right now? And I was like, oh, a year or two. And he was like, I'm sure you can do it in like six months. I was like, yeah, I probably could. And it was like, he really challenged me on that and helped me realize that actually I'd been clinging onto this story that I needed to be a doctor part-time, even though I had run the experiment. And even though I knew the results of the experiment were like, oh, I actually don't enjoy this. But now I take a more experimental approach to think where I'm like, you know,

what is like experimenting with, I don't know, this is going to sound super out of touch, but like Airbnb versus hotel. What's actually nicer. Turns out I prefer hotels because you get everything done for you. And that's cool. I realized I like convenience, but actually economy delight on version Atlantic is just as good as business class. There's no need to pay 15 grand for upper class when you can get economy delight, which is like $300 extra compared to economy. And it's just as good. And I'm like, Oh, that's great. I've now saved 15 K every time I fly version Atlantic. So it's like, I'm running these sort of mini expert. This is, these are dumb examples, but,

but these mini experiments in my life to be like, does spending more money on the thing X actually improve my happiness with thing X? Or can I just not do that and still be totally content? Exactly. And I'm getting more and more of this data over time. Well, and I think this applies not just to, there's two separate things if we take a step back. There's one about enjoying creating the money. And then the second part that we're talking about is enjoying your money. And this part no one talks about because most people are still trying to create it. Yeah, it's also very unfashionable to talk about how to enjoy money once you're already rich. And this is like, yeah.

What the reality though, and I think what you're commenting on is actually really interesting. This is super powerful. How do you, when you do an experiment and it fails, you don't say like, I'm going to give up and blow this whole thing up. What do you, what do you do? You learn from it and you're like, try another one. Yeah. And so if people start thinking, all right, if I want to start a business, I want to be an entrepreneur. I want to get this great investment. Maybe I don't want to be a millionaire. Maybe I just want enough for groceries. Maybe I want enough for seat upgrades or maybe they want to be able to go to a nice meal.

When you think of it as an experiment, you're not putting so much pressure on yourself to succeed. When you experiment, you say, I am going to try to do a cookie business, or I'm going to try to start lawn care business, or I'm going to try to start an accounting business, whatever it is, a software business, doing invoicing, whatever. When you experiment and it fails, you're like, all right, well, that didn't work.

Hmm, this or this video didn't work. What can I learn from it? You're not so pressured. Oh, I'm a failure. Like, no, it didn't work. Okay, let me go back and experiment. And again, and again, and again, and again. And it's through this process, which I cover in the book as well. Most of the most successful people have experimented the most. Yeah, think about that. Most of the most successful people have experimented the most.

They've done these things and a lot of the things did not work. I've done conferences. I've done discount cards. I've built a lot of software no one's ever seen. I've done so many things that no one's ever seen.

Because no one wanted it. And so, but I'm experimenting. I keep at it. And eventually that's led me to find something like AppSumo, which thank God has worked. And I've been able to help a lot of people, employ people and all these things. But it's through the act of going at it, starting it. And just again and again, like Sean, like Sam, these guys have done things and tried it. It didn't magically just happen overnight. Yeah.

Yeah, like from age 13 to 19, every year I had one or two new business ideas. I did affiliate marketing sites. I did pyramid scheme, trade doubler kind of thing. This was back in like the 2006, 2007 era. I tried starting my own web design studio. I tried making an online video game. I tried contacting Nintendo to be like, can I build an online version of Pokemon? Because I was learning how to program at the time. I was like 14 years old. Okay.

Did they say yes? No, they were like, fuck off, basically. I built a forum where I was like super into these books of these kids who are spies. And I built a forum that was like, we're going to teach you how to do lock picking and martial arts and stuff. So if you're a kid, you can learn these skills now.

And I did all this shit when I was in school. And then the first thing that I did that actually succeeded was when I was like 19 and was like, why don't I apply all my skills of web design to this idea, to the fact that I know how to teach. And I can, I got into med school to build this courses business around helping people get into med school and

Which then was making me like 40k a year in profit while I was at university, which led to my YouTube channel. All of it sort of happened. And even then, like we had like a dozen acquisition channels for this courses business. All of them were crap, except when I started making YouTube videos. That was the only acquisition channel we had, apart from spamming on forums, that actually got a sales. I was like, this YouTube thing is good. I should stick with this YouTube thing. So even like if someone looks at my stuff now, they're like, oh, he's a big YouTuber.

whatever, but they don't see like the literally 15 years, 16 years now of experimenting and trying random shit and throwing stuff at the wall. And crucially, I think, and I really like your point about this. I was having so much fun along the way. I could not get, I could not wait to get home from like a day of lectures in med school to like tinker away on the website of my, of my courses business. I couldn't wait to learn like PHP backend programming. So I could sit up with my brother pair programming, like this medical school question bank in like 2015 and,

When I was home for the holidays, that was so fun. It was so exhilarating. And if you can find that thing and get started with it in a way that's actually fun, I think it's the fun and the enjoyment that sustains you on the journey. And eventually something will succeed. Of course it will. It's not not going to succeed. But as you say, way too many, everyone either struggles to start or they just quit way too early. Exactly.

Hey, it's good stuff. So what else is in the book? I feel like we've, we've, we've just like vaguely scratched the surface. Um, no, there's a lot in the book. There's a lot. And you've gone full ham on like 1200 beta testers, like beta testing every chapter and making sure it's only the good shit. I'm so inspired hearing, I was intimidated hearing about your beta testing strategy. I was like, shit, we're not doing that for our book.

Yeah. I mean, taking a step back, I think one of the cheat codes for anyone out there is how do you buy or copy or steal the 10,000 hours from other people? Everyone's heard it, right? But I don't have 10,000 hours to go be a doctor. I don't have 10,000 hours to be the greatest writer in the world. I don't have 10,000 hours to be the best YouTuber in the world. So how can I pay to get someone else an affordable price to be able to help me with these things? And so this is available. You've had different business coaches on. So for this book,

I wanted, you know, and let me tell you that the origin story of the book, because I think this is applicable for everyone out there. 15 years ago, I said I wanted to write a book. And a few years ago, I was like, all right, well, I'm just going to write a book. That's what you do. I started and I sent it to an agent named Lisa DeMono. She's Ramit's agent. Tiago's agent. Ramit's your agent. Tiago's agent. James Clear's agent, I believe. And I sent her the proposal and she laughed at me. She's like, this is not a real proposal. Like, come back when you're serious. And this is like, you know, top, top class agent.

And everyone can relate to that. You know, you do this thing and you get rejected. And it's like, how do we have courage to face fear? And that's what courage is. It's being afraid and doing it anyways. That's courage. And she rejected it. And all these rejections, whether, you know, we teach you through the book, every rejection is just a test if you want something. Ooh, every rejection is just a test if you want something. 100%. Okay. Do you really want it? And so when she rejected me, I was like, yeah, I want this book. There's nothing else out there like it that helps you overcome your fear and helps you get the business actually started and then growing. Mm-hmm.

And so then we're talking about cheat codes. I started hiring 10,000 hour people. So I found the guy who wrote James's clear book proposal, David Mulder. Oh yeah. I worked with him. Yeah. And so he ripped mine to shreds. He took what I read, wrote, and then laughed at it. It deleted everything, redid it. And then I was able to sell the book for a ton of money because I paid a guy who's got 10,000 hours on it.

After David, I then said, all right, I'm a pretty good writer. I like making content on these things, but I'm not like a blogger Twitter. I'm not a real storyteller author.

Let me find the best in the world. And so I went and looked through all the best business books in the past decade. And there's a guy who's written two of them. His name is Tal Raps. So he wrote Never Split the Difference. And also, what else did he write? Never Eat Alone. Oh, I haven't read that. I've heard good things. Phenomenal. Okay, nice. This book was called Never Be Poor. That was it. Because he likes never be poor on a weekend. No, but... Yeah, never be poor. Why did you not call it Never Be Poor? Because he has like nevers in his title. And so it was basically trying to... I cold emailed him. Yeah.

just like anyone else can and i said hey i wrote this proposal it took me a year to write the proposal and again these are just things that people can think about all right so i got going it didn't work but i still wanted it i wanted it past the rejection test i had you know then i was like all right i spent a year writing the proposal and then with tall i was like i want you to write this book with me whatever it takes and so i was able to work with him to then write this book and then uh

It's like, all right, how do I do this in other aspects of my life? Whether it's a business coach or Moody for marketing or CEO coach, like go find someone, pay them $1,000 an hour or pay them whatever it takes. And the amount of value you get is insane out of it. And then through the book, candidly, and this probably will come across, I'm not supposed to do this.

I'm supposed to be like super confident. Like I've started all these businesses. I've got a lot of confidence. It's like, no, I'm insecure. Just like everyone else. Everyone else out there. Everyone has some insecurities or lack of confidence. And with tall in this book, I said, all right, well, I've started a bunch of businesses and a lot of them made millions of dollars. And I've worked for Zuckerberg. I've started minimum.com. I was scared of writing the book. Cause I was like, I don't know if it can really help people. So let me give the book to tall and,

We went for a week in the woods, which is kind of weird. Two guys that didn't know each other, two bald Jewish dudes. And then I was like, he's just going to write the book and do everything. And then hopefully it's good and it'll help people. And all of us have a hero's journey inside of us. And I was just so afraid of the book. Just like AppSumo, I was afraid that I'll ruin this company as well.

And I thought he would just save me, which I think a lot of us do. Like, all right, I'm not going to try this thing out. I'm not going to try the business out. I'm not going to try the job out. I'm not going to try this relationship out because I'm afraid. Afraid of what action can become, which is amazing. We realize that there's some level that you can be on that's fucking awesome. And as we were working on the book, I realized I had to face my fear of can I actually help people or not? Even though I've done it myself, even though I've hired literally the best writers in the world, got the best publishing company, the best agent, I don't know if this is going to work. I'm really afraid.

And that's what led me to then build the beta team, which is basically like thousands of people. So every chapter had 20 people go through every single page, 10 chapters, 20 people per chapter. And they're like, yeah, this is crap. Here's what we like. Now, not how we like that. We don't understand this. This doesn't make sense. Then I started beta every weekend. We beta test with five people. So I just got off. There's a guy, William. There's a guy, LG. There's a guy, Felipe. He's a developer. He wanted to start developing business. And I was like, okay, let's go through the book.

All right, you're afraid of starting? Let's go do the coffee challenge. Wait, where are you like on Zoom calls with these guys? We're doing WhatsApp groups. Oh, wow. So every weekend, and there's you, but every weekend there's different people going through their own million dollar weekend experience so I can understand.

Wow. If it actually will help them or not. That's insane. And so every weekend for six months now and then until the book launches and maybe afterwards we'll do it. I wanted to build the book around, will this actually help people change their life and start a business? Which literally you can change your life in 48 hours. That's pretty fucking nuts. Yeah. And it's available for everyone. That's pretty nuts. It is nuts. And so through all of us, it's realizing that we can face our fears and overcome hard things.

And through doing this book, helping thousands of people now, literally just this book, not all the businesses I've started, which has been a lot, not through working for Zuckerberg, not through all this stuff. It's like, oh, wow, it actually works. And so that's been the part of building my own confidence then to come out here and be like, do this book. If people actually want to change their life, start a business, I'm excited about Million Dollar Weekend. So I don't feel like I have to go sell it. I feel like it's my responsibility to tell people. Like we're talking, coming back full circle. I'm like, yo, if you were trying to change your life in a weekend, if you don't like your job or you want to create your own job, you actually can't.

So you're going to be a dad fairly soon. I'm going to be a dad in July, which is insane. Yeah. How has that changed your approach to, I guess, work and life? 180. Okay. First off, it's made me have a lot more admiration for moms. We have, at Absolute Mom, I started, we didn't have health insurance for five years. It was just like, stay inside, don't leave your house, so you'll stay healthy. I mean, that was our health insurance plan because we couldn't afford it. Yeah.

We have moms that have sumo and I have so much respect for them. The fact they can, they show up at work and they do amazing jobs and they're pregnant with it as well as moms and families. I have a lot more respect for how hard it is. My, my girlfriend is going through like morning sickness and all these things and she still has to go to her own day job. Yeah. And so that, that's been a first part. Just like, wow. A lot of admiration for families and especially the people who are birthing. I'm like, holy shit, this is tough. Secondly, I would say the 180 is how much time we waste.

We fuck around so much. And being a parent to me and being, you know, with this book, being in a company, being whatever, it's like, are you showing up? Like you say this is your priority, but this is your behavior. Is your priority and behavior actually aligned? And I've been noticing with my girlfriend, she's been saying, hey, I need you finishing at six.

And I'm like, dude, I dig around at work to at least seven or eight, you know, and it's been a great 180 and a great blessing that I want to be available for my family. I want to be able to show up on time. I want to prioritize what I say is my priority, which is my girlfriend and our baby. And so how do I adjust my schedule and my, what I'm working on so that I do the most important things and really finish on time? I think everyone should think about the pregnancy hack.

Just imagine your husband or wife and your family, you're about to have a family and you don't have a lot of time. I'm much more selective what I'm going to be doing, who I'm going to be doing with, and making sure I finish on time. And as well, being an entrepreneur, I can have a lot more flexibility in that. I don't have to go to my day job. I don't have to worry about a three-month maternity plan. I can take a 12-month. That's what I really want to do with my family. But just changing my perspective on time, it's much more intentional because I want to show up. I really like that. Yeah, that's something I've been thinking about a lot. Like, um...

And one thing that I would, I would, I would like to be the sort of person who prioritizes relationships over work. And so there have been a few occasions where my girlfriend has needed me for something. And in that moment, I was like set up for filming a YouTube video and that YouTube video would have made 20 grand in sponsorship revenue. And I was like, at that moment of crossroads decisions, I,

My default is to do the work thing. But the sort of person I would like to be, the person I aspire to be is someone who values relationships over work. And so recently, over the last few months, I've been making the decision to be like, screw the YouTube video. I'm an entrepreneur. I can do what I want. Like the whole point of getting to this point where I have freedom is so that I can literally give it to the people who I love and to my family. Like, that's literally the point. And like, you know, I was... There was this thing where...

I was going to go home to see my mum for dinner or something. And my car had broken down and public transport wasn't working. And then I was like, oh, I can't go see my mum for dinner. And I was like, wait a minute.

Let me just Uber it. And I was like, $200 to get an Uber to see my mom. Screw it. That's literally the point. The whole point of making money and doing all this stuff and getting all this freedom is to be able to then cash in for the things that you actually care about. And I enjoy catching myself now in moments where the default conditioning of save money or do work or work harder or do this thing is actually, no, I could film another YouTube video tonight or I could go to the gym. I also value my health more than work. So let's just do that.

Whereas in the past, I definitely would have been like, oh no, but like I need to build a business and like one more video. Now I feel like I'm changing that and more like valuing health and relationships. How old are you now? 29.

You're going through like decades and years, man. I feel like you're on your 40th year. The only cool people I interview, I always learn from people. That's why I'm asking you questions that possibly half this interview people can't relate to. But like, I want to know the answer to these questions. I think a lot of them can relate to it. I think a lot of them can recognize like, hey, if I want to be at a place where I can do whatever it is that you want to do in your life, that is starting now. So when you're 25 or 35 or 55, whatever that is, 45, you can be there. Yeah. And

I do think it's relatable. Hopefully. We'll see. No, and what I say about that is there is a success bias. Like I'm already so far removed from being like, you know, having a $55,000 job living at my mom's house to now having my own crazy house, which I can't believe. Yeah, it has a sick. It's unbelievable. But it was getting going on these things and realizing like, huh, in my 20s, I definitely –

I was just, I was working really hard. And I think that's great. I think you work, if I had to break these decades down, cause I'm in my forties and I'm finally fucking happy, I would say like actually content. Yeah. I'd say twenties is just like, you're suffering, you're grinding, you're uncertain, you're frustrated, you're angry at your parents. Maybe you're one of the chosen few people that, that have like actually like figured it out. But I would say my twenties, I was just like,

I don't know, living on floors for a year, like I told you, going to Argentina, going to Thailand for months at times. And in 30s, I'm like, okay, I finally found work I like doing, which is promoting stuff on AppSumo. But like, I'm not figuring out this dating part. I didn't realize how important partner selection is. I just dated whoever I got, not got who I want. That's the same thing with asking. If you don't ask, you don't get. You just hope for something. Instead of asking, get what you want. And so 30s, you kind of dial some of these things in. And 40s, you're calm.

You're calm. You're like, okay, do I like being with my partner? Yes. I love being with my partner. I love, she's awesome partner. But I finally took time to go to, I went to Stephanie rig to relationship coach and I go to therapy and then I've hired other dating coaches and doing these, the work of understanding myself to be there. And then the same thing with my actual professional life. It's like, okay,

I don't like some of this stuff. How do we finally get more calm and clear on it? I think in the 20s, it just feels more frantic. And I'd say overall for everyone out there, there's really two components of this whole journey that we're all on on a planet, which is bonkers. One is patience. We're so I'm so impatient. I was impatient to get rich. I was impatient to have a kid. I was impatient. It's like, dude, just chill out. It'll all work out. Hmm.

But we're all rushing to somewhere, which is going to be the death, which everyone ends up. So just be patient before you get there and enjoy all these things. And I'd say the other part that I would recommend as well is just be generous to yourself. Be generous to yourself. Be generous to others. And if we can just do a little more of that, you're just a little bit more generous. Like, okay, Noah, you're doing okay today. Ali, you're doing okay today. You, you're doing okay today. Be patient. Guess what? It does work out. It really does. And I think in these moments where it's not, we're feeling frustrated and making it such a worse situation.

No, I mean, that's a great place to end this. Thank you so much. Thank you so much for the advice and all the inspiration and mentorship over the years. Last question. What would you like? I'm 29. I'm going to turn 30 in about six months. Hoping to get married maybe sometime next year. Have kids maybe soonish after that. Any advice? Put on sunblock.

That's my advice. Nice. That's good. And so let me unpack that a bit. I got to meet Surya. He was on The Apprentice. You remember the show The Apprentice? Yeah. We had a UK version of it as well. Yeah, same thing. And I was 25. We were at like a Denny's in the Bay Area. And he was on The Apprentice. I was like, oh, you're on The Apprentice. So cool. And he worked for Neutrogena, the skincare company. And he was like, put on sunblock and try to lotion and wash your face every night. Nice.

All right. Okay, we'll do that. And now I have a skincare routine, which actually was one of the most popular emails I've sent in the past two years. Oh, no way. Yeah. Yeah. That's one of my most popular videos in the last few years. Dude, I'm saying skincare. I think what's interesting for you turning 30 and for everyone else out there, it's kind of what we're talking about Million Dollar Weekend, which is, you know, following the process. I started when I was 25. I got started right now. So when he told me that I went home, I bought Neutrogena, the roller, I still have it in my bag. And I started putting it on.

And at 41, it's like, my skin actually looks pretty good. It looks pretty good. Pretty good, right? It looks like you've had a skincare routine. Yeah. I mean, you know, when I was out all day at the Niners game yesterday, it was a full day. But the reality was I started something and I stuck with it for a long period of time. And it was something small, like putting on sunblock. And so for yourself, you know, what's the thing you're starting now that when you're 40, you're like, oh, I'm glad I put on some sunblock. I think it's working out.

Yeah. Is that working out? Yeah, I think it is. I think it is that. It is that. I've been kind of doing it on and off, but not consistently for years, like forever. What do you think is holding you back? I'd never quite taken it seriously in that when it was a choice between working out and work, I would choose work because I was building and I was like, work was more fun than working out. And yeah,

When I was feeling lazy and low energy, I'd like, oh, I'll just work on a YouTube video or whatever, rather than go down, go to the gym. Yeah. But put in that extra effort.

Um, but I've decided after attending a Tony Robbins event, um, which I know that you're not a fan of, but, um, I decided that like my top goal for 2024 was to get into the best shape of my life so that not so that I can get into the best shape of my life so that I could experiment with what it's like being in super, super good shape to see if I want to, but more importantly, to build the habit of working out. Cause I also read outlived by Peter Atiyah and I was like, oh shit, I need to get started while I'm relatively young.

build the foundation of muscle and core strength and stamina and flexibility and all that stuff. So now working out regularly. What do you think that would give you if you're in shape and you're working out all the time? Better health and longevity for the long term.

which is kind of what I'm going for. And I'm trying to find a way to make it fun. And then what do you, what would be fun? Like, how could you make it enjoy? Cause this is true for everything we talked about. We talked about being rich, all these things. It's just not fun because today they have to start and get going. And then five years or 10 years or one year, there'll be millionaires or fit or whatever those things are. They have to create a fun environment, which is in the book. I'm like, okay, I'm going to make it fun. So you do get going and get started and keep with it. But like, what would be fun for you in terms of exercise? What, what has been fun?

Um, I quite enjoy going to the gym on my own listening to an audiobook while I'm doing it. Not like trying to go. I just realized this. I don't like it when I have to work super hard, because then I'm like sweating and it's like huffing and puffing and stuff. But, you know, doing it at my own pace still going to sort of failure or nearly failure on the sets that I'm doing.

But just taking my time with it a bit more and treating it as more like an enjoyable, pleasant activity rather than, oh shit, I've got half an hour. I need to try and grind out the quickest workout I possibly can.

And so I get through a lot of audiobooks and stuff. And sometimes I film myself and turn it into an Instagram reel of like working out and trying to get that Lululemon or Gymshark sponsorship or whatever the thing would be. Have you not got that Gymshark thing yet? Not yet. But I wear all my clothing with Lululemon now, so I might reach out to them. Get them. I guess even taking a step back there, what would make it fun though? So what I mean by that is this is something I've learned in my late 30s, 40s.

Like I don't enjoy, I used to go to the gym and it literally feels like a jail. It's like, okay, so I go to this place and I literally, I'm picking up something and I just put it back down. Like that's my workout. Like that makes no sense to me. Yeah. Like that's not fun. Like I don't want to go to a room filled with other people and be trapped.

And so I was like, okay, well, how do I do get the outcome I want, which is to be healthy, but I do it in an enjoyable way. So what are other ways for you? I can share mine. For me, it was like, okay, I like cycling because I'm going somewhere. I'm seeing the world. I can do it everywhere in the world. You can do it on the cheap. You can do it expensive. Okay. That's cardio or something. And I was like, I want to kind of maybe be fit. So I started picking up boxing because, you know, I don't want to get beat up as I get on YouTube. I'm like, oh, they're going to beat me up or something like that. I want to, and it's a skill as well as then you get exercise. Yeah.

So I was like, okay, that's kind of fun. That's actually not kind of, that's super fun. And then squash. And so, yeah, I think with exercising, what I've noticed besides sticking with it and I, okay, maybe you have audio books. How do you do ones where you're like, no one has to ask you to go do it. No one has to convince you to go do it. You just actually want to go do it. Maybe it's kickboxing. Maybe it's core power yoga downstairs. Maybe it's stretching. Maybe it's whatever.

And so it's like, how do I change? You know, same thing we talk about rejection being a bad thing. How do you make it a good thing? How do you find exercise that's actually fun? Not you're convincing yourself. Yeah, no, I'm in the process of experimenting. So squash is one of the things where I would, I don't need discipline to play squash, but I still need discipline to go to the gym. And so I want to try CrossFit because I've heard good things about that. I've done a few yoga classes. I tried kickboxing for a bit. I need to try boxing because I've heard good things about boxing, but I'm trying to do some experimentation to find what is that thing. But also I think,

I think almost everything, we can find a way to make it fun. And I would like, I think if I can find a way to make

lifting weights at the gym, lifting a weight up and putting it back down again. If I can find a way to make that fun, I'm going to be in shape for the rest of my life because I might not have access to like a boxing gym or whatever the thing might be. I know I'll be fit for the rest of my life if that's the case. So yeah, just trying to make it fun. Have you tried any accountability partners? Yeah. Do you know Dan Goh? Yeah. Yeah. He's my fitness coach. So I send him my little workout every time. Yeah. And he's like, good job. How has that helped?

It's really useful. We have a call every other week for 20 minutes. He answers my questions. He helps me out a bit. He's really good. I'm like, yeah, you know, I'm traveling, so I can't get enough protein. And he's like, okay, well, have you considered just getting some protein powder and putting it in your suitcase? And I'm like, good idea. I'll just do that. Yeah, it's interesting. Like adamgilbertmybodysuiter.com is similar to Dan. Adam's been one of my best friends and my accountability partner for like a decade. And literally before I walked into the show, I was like, Adam, I'm not drinking until Thursday.

Cause that, that's definitely an outlet where it's like a hard day and you want to go relax, have a glass of wine. And it was nice to have that support. So for everyone out there, it's like, whether honestly in business as well as in, you know, in health and relationships, it's finding coaching and elite people to support you in these different areas. And it doesn't have to be expensive. It can also be a friend or someone else. Exactly. Yeah. Good stuff. Excellent.

Thank you for having me. We'll have, so we didn't talk about picking ideas. We didn't talk about scaling your ideas. We didn't talk about growing your business, any of these things. I'll have at milliondollarweekend.com slash Ali Abdaal. Anyone goes there, I'll have a free thing for them to get all these different templates, resources, step-by-step stuff from the second and third parts of the book. Damn, that's really clever and also really cool.

It's just interesting because you need to think like, hey, if you want more, if you actually want templates, videos, step-by-step resources. Nice. And we're going to do a book club video about the book where we break down some of the bits and bobs. Are you really? Yeah. And so the idea is that we'll take some of the sound bites from this and use them as to like prop up the book club video. It's coming on 30th January. Yeah. Cool. We will do our best to get that video out that week. Namaste. You've been such an inspiration over the last few years. I want to do whatever I can to help support the book.

And the amount of beta readers you've got, I haven't read it yet, but I'm sure it's going to be fucking incredible. The beta readers have been amazing. Yeah, I think that's... I was walking in here with Isaac, who I've been filming with for a few years, and I love this guy. And doing the book, and everyone can create whatever the hardest thing is for themselves. I think that's something I've been trying to think about myself. What's the hard thing I'm avoiding? Doing the book, I wanted to avoid it, but I had to face some challenge in my life. We all do. And then when you face these things, you realize...

It's not as hard as I thought. Yeah. Starting a business, doing a relationship, whatever it is. And going into the book, it's been amazing. And I'm sure you're experiencing this well. Like how many people, whatever you're doing, but specifically with the book, how many people want to help us? Yeah. Have you noticed that? Yeah, so nice. I'm like, oh man, that's cool. Yeah. And that's been, you know, I was working with this guy, Jake, on his own business recently.

and he was calling people and getting his business going using the million dollar weekend process. And he's like, yeah, these people actually are buying. Yeah. Like, yeah, dude, they, well, they wouldn't if they didn't want to and people want to see you succeed. And I think people need a little bit more of that in their lives, realizing like you can help others and others want to help you win too. Nice. Good stuff, man. Thanks, everybody.

All right, so that's it for this week's episode of Deep Dive. Thank you so much for watching or listening. All the links and resources that we mentioned in the podcast are gonna be linked down in the video description or in the show notes, depending on where you're watching or listening to this. If you're listening to this on a podcast platform, then do please leave us a review on the iTunes store. It really helps other people discover the podcast. Or if you're watching this in full HD or 4K on YouTube, then you can leave a comment down below and ask any questions or any insights or any thoughts about the episode. That would be awesome. And if you enjoyed this episode, you might like to check out this episode here as well, which links in with some of the stuff that we talked about in the episode. So thanks for watching.

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