How To Find Your Purpose in Life - Vee Kativhu
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What would you want to do for free if you didn't have to think about bills and all this other stuff? What would you happily dedicate your time to for free? And that thing, that thing is embedded in your purpose. That's a good starting point. Hey friends, how's it going? Welcome back to Deep Dive. In this episode, I have the immense privilege to speak to Vee Katavu, who has written this book, Empowered. Now Vee is, like me, an educational YouTuber, but unlike me, she is like

a published author now having actually written and published her book. She's like mates with Michelle Obama. She's an activist. She does a load of stuff around helping improve access to education for people all around the world. And genuinely, there was some moments in this conversation that really brought tears to my eyes just hearing the authentic and honest and really

really inspiring way that V naturally speaks about her upbringing and her mum and the stuff that she's doing. And I'm not really one to feel emotional about stuff, but like there was something about chatting to V for the first time that really got me. So yeah, it was really good. And I hope you guys enjoy the episode as much as I did. So yeah, overall in the episode, we discuss V's journey to education and doing this empowerment thing that she's into. And we talk about her mission and purpose that really genuinely does seem to be to do good in the world. And I'm, you know, you'll see in the episode, I get a bit flabbergasted as to how,

altruistic her motives like genuinely are whereas mine often tend to be far more on the selfish side of things for like fame and power and money and all that all that kind of stuff either way i hope you enjoy the episode book is really good you should check it out you should read it it's actually sick and it's genuinely like a really a really pretty like work of art as well you'll see if you're watching this on on the youtube channel

But yeah, I hope you enjoyed this conversation between me and V. Let's go for it. V, welcome to the show. How are you doing? I'm good, thank you, Ali. How are you? I'm great. I've been following your journey on the internet for such a long time, but this is the first time we're actually meeting in real life. I know. It's quite exciting and it's quite weird on the internet because you've seen someone every day. You watch their story. I know you were just in Pakistan. Like, I know so much, but now I'm like, oh, hi. But I already know so much and it's quite a weird and backwards way of doing it, but...

It's nice to meet you in the flesh. So you've got this book, which is coming out very shortly. I mean, it will be out by the time people see this. Yes. This is very cool. It's like a work of art almost. I feel like a proud mother. It's so pretty. Honestly, I feel like this is my baby and the insides, the colors, it's me. It's yellow, bright, it's energy, it's sun, it's, yeah. What was the story of getting the book deal?

- Oh my gosh, people ask me this all the time. And I don't know if this is a regular story or if this is not a regular story, but I just got an email. I got an email from my editor Mireille, who is incredible. And she was having a bad day. She was having a really bad day or something like that. And she went on the internet and she stumbled across my videos. And she went into like a six hour video watching nonstop. And she just got to know me in that time. And she was like, the moment she was done, she had to email and say,

your life and your story and your advice, it needs to be a book. And she emailed that day, I think. And then I replied the next day and this journey began.

And wow, so when was that? And how was that journey from email to now when the book is in your hand? So quite ironically, I don't know if it's ironic, but I started writing the book the same day I began my degree at Harvard. So they happen at the same time. So I guess the email came two weeks before, three weeks before. So you got to do negotiations, the back and forth, all that stuff. And then you begin. So yeah. And what's that process been like for you?

of writing a book while doing a degree from Harvard. Like that's a pretty big deal. I've done some crazy stuff in my time, but that was the craziest because it's just two big commitments, two things that you should be given 100% of your entire time to and I'm doing them simultaneously. So that was quite...

but also exciting because I think I work best when there's lots going on rather than one thing. And I've never just done my degrees. I've never just done one thing. It's always juggling. And I like that. So the process was good. I had to take time off YouTube at some point for like two months because it got quite a lot. But we're here now and I have a degree and a book now. So, fantastic.

Pretty happy. Yeah, congratulations. Thank you. I saw lots of very cute photos from your graduation. Yes. Your kind of at-home graduation party that your family threw for you and like the friends and the balloons and everything. Listen, let me tell you something. When it comes to celebrating and celebrating life, my family don't play games.

They are unapologetic about the fact that you've gotten this far as in anyone could be me, could be anybody. You've gotten this far through your hard work and life is not easy. The world puts a lot on you, especially as a young woman, who's a black young woman, right? The world puts a lot on you as it is. So anytime you get a win, they're like, we will celebrate this till kingdom comes. So when the pandemic was happening, yeah.

the schools were not giving us graduations. My family said, okay, that's fine. Good for them, but we're going to carry on. So the balloons came out, we ordered the gowns and the whole, the whole nine yards. And I was really happy. Fantastic. Um, so I will, I want to go into a lot of the stuff you talk in the book because really like the whole thing, live your life with passion and purpose. Um, and,

and you've got some interesting thoughts around how to find your purpose and goal setting and all that kind of stuff. Before we get into that, I wonder if we can talk a little bit about your, your, your background, kind of your childhood, all that kind of stuff. Cause it's, it's quite an inspiring story. So for people who maybe aren't familiar with your story, I wonder if you can give us like an,

an overview of kind of where have you come from and how did we get here? So I was born and raised in Zimbabwe, a beautiful, beautiful, beautiful country on the southern tip of the African continent. And I was raised there up until the age of about seven. And in that time frame, my father passed away when I was about two. My mom moved to England when I was

two and then my sister instantly got separated from me because obviously you're going to stay with family members while your mum's away and they can't afford to have both of you. So we were split up. So I think being born and then straight away your family's gone, that was really, really hard. And I was raised as an orphan, I had orphan status in Zimbabwe. And that was really difficult because people treat you different, like you feel the constant sympathy and all that kind of stuff. And then we got reunited when I was about...

seven or eight and then I moved to England to be with my mom and that story of getting to the airport is always a funny but sad one for me because we literally got to the airport my sister and I after being reunited and we saw two women my mom and her best friend and I was like

I literally don't know which one she is that is how much I just didn't know her and my sister ran to one person I ran to the other and of course I got the wrong one and um yeah but since that day my mum and I have been like best friends to make up for lost time I think we bonded so quickly and now we're inseparable you know and then yeah I got to the UK went to school and wanted to go to Oxford that was a big deal for me because I thought life

it's for the living and I want nothing but the best that it has to offer. So went to Oxford. Well, when I wanted to go to Oxford, my teacher said, no, she was like, no, it's not for people like us. And that was not going to work with me because my mom, since, since we'd been reunited, she just, she just wanted me to have everything. Like she wanted me to go after life because it'd been so hard to begin. So when I said, I want to go to uni, her instinct was, well, we're going to, we're going to choose whichever one, the best one, which one's the best one. Google it. Oxford.

Oxford came up. That was literally how we chose. I typed in Google, where is the best place to study history? Oxford came up. I said, that's where we're going. So when she said no, it didn't make sense to me. I said, but why? And I didn't end up going, sadly, because I just didn't have my school support. And then the next year, the foundation year came around. I applied for the foundation year, got into Oxford, started YouTube, and then the rest came.

What is the foundation year? Ah, the foundation year. So it was this pilot scheme and course at Lady Margaret Hall Oxford, which was like a bridging course to kind of help students from backgrounds like mine who, you know,

would have wanted to go to a place like Oxford but because of circumstances out of their control they just couldn't or they maybe didn't meet the grades or whatever the reason could be this is like a foundation year like um a bridging course or a fast track to get you up to speed with what you might have missed out on in that year before you do your undergraduate so you get onto the foundation year you get to Oxford you're there but you're not yet there

So I had to like wake up from my room at Oxford to go downstairs to interview for Oxford by my professors who've been teaching me for the past few months. And they're like, hi, how are you? I'm like, we we've done this before. Like, come on. And then you find out when, whether you've gotten in or not by going downstairs again to open your letter in the principal's office instead of it being sent home. So that is like such an odd way, but yeah,

Yeah, it was just a course that they took on 10 students from the UK. And I was one of them. Luckily, I was really happy about that. But only seven of us got to continue. So it wasn't guaranteed that you would go on to do the degree at Oxford. So yeah, that was really hard. Yeah. Really hard. And why did you go for history?

That's a good question. I just, I love understanding the world and my place in it. And for me to do that, I have to go back in time to understand how things work. I can't just take things for face value. Like I need to know, but why? Like, where did this begin? You can't tell me this is like the philosophy of education. I need to know what is philosophy. Where does it begin? Like who are the first philosophers or help me understand just the core of something at the start of it. Things like education.

anything like racism politics whatever like we didn't just end up here something started or something happened first and i love investigating so that's why history for me okay

So that's interesting. So like a lot of people I know, including like me and all of the people I know from immigrant backgrounds, would not study something like history because the mindset would be, what the hell are you going to do with a history degree? Become a history teacher? Yeah. And so for a lot of people that I know, it's like medicine, engineering, law are like the only professions. Yeah. And therefore are the only things that you can possibly do at uni. Otherwise, you're going to end up, I don't know,

or whatever. Like, was that something that went through your mind at all? No, no. My mom, I honestly, I think the world needs to have my mom have her own show, have her own book. Like she is a character within herself, but when she was raising my sister and I, she never had,

any expectations on us. So I never got that aspect of, oh my God, you must become a doctor or a pilot. Or she was just like, you must become a V. That was her thing. And whatever it is I wanted to do, she would then follow suit. So she'd just wait for me to tell her this is the direction. And then she would figure out a way of supporting that or whatever.

just listening or whatever she could do. So she's got this, let them fly mentality. So I never, I never had that pressure. I mean, there was a time she mentioned the word doctor, but like she said any kind of doctor, she never specified. So if I do a PhD, then technically she gets her dream. Right. But yeah, she supported the history dream. At some point it was music. At some point it was Spanish. Like I never went down the lawyer, the traditional route never was in me. Okay.

So then you started at Oxford. What was that experience like for you broadly? Yeah. Gosh. Well, I mean, the first thing is obviously the lack of diversity is a big, big thing that plays a big role in your experience if you're not a student who's from that background, right? So as a young black woman stepping in and only seeing like that my year, I think I had 32 black students out of like 3000 undergraduates or something like that.

And that is a big, big, big difference, right? And there are what, 30 colleges or 32 in Oxford? So all of us are split amongst those colleges. So you might be two or three maximum of you in your college. And that was so different to what I'd known before. So that was a little bit hard, but it was fine because I made friends and my college was really nice. But also being on the foundation year made it like an extra layer because people were

asking all the time like what is that like what do you mean your foundation you didn't what does that even mean and how come you're saying you're not sure if you'll be here next year like we're all freshers and I just had to keep on explaining I'm in actually year zero not year one so next year is my first year but this is my year zero they're like why do you need a year zero so I think that made the experience a little bit more difficult and because I can compare from my actual first year to my zero first year I can see the difference like that year I was

tense and I was constantly like feeling like I need to explain my place all the time and justify it and because it was so new this course we literally had people from tv shows wanting to do documentaries on us right they were emailing all the time we had newspaper people we had politicians come and visit us we had all like the attention was crazy because people were like what Oxford doesn't do this and now Cambridge after like four years has adopted the course onto their stuff so

It's been slow, but people are finally getting around to it. And it was just weird being the first on there. Yeah. So you said that it was hard being one of 30-something black students in the year group. Yeah. Why was that hard? Like, yeah. It was hard because...

You are constantly speaking for your entire race, right? Whenever something goes on, it's, well, what do the black students think? And it's like, we were so small, such a minority group that you're always feeling like you're representing all the time. When conversations of hair come up and you change your hair again and again, no one's already told people anything.

I'm black. I change my hair. It's protective styling. Today I'll have blonde hair. Tomorrow I'll have red. I could have long hair. I could have short hair. It's just how it works. People are always asking you stuff. You're cooking your food. Like, what is that? It's just like a constant thing. And then the boys will start telling you, oh, on my bucket list, it's a date, a black girl. And you're always...

seen in your race and not just as a person. So being a small group of you, it's magnified because I don't know you. And then you start to feel paranoia about certain things that aren't even like happening because you're on defense. You're already like, if I speak right now, this is just what V thinks and don't,

put me in with everybody else because we're not the same and they'll just like paint you with the same brush right as if all black students have the exact same experience or the same thoughts so it's like no get to know us as individuals stop saying ACS African Caribbean Society just lumping us together all the time you know so

I felt like I couldn't just be a student. I felt like there was a responsibility that came with my place and also knowing that you need to do access work because you got to make sure more of you get in so that this experience is no longer alien or, oh my God, V's there and she's black. It should be V's there, yay. You know, and it's not necessarily because I'm black. So I knew I couldn't just be there and party and just be like a student. I had to also do all this work to make sure other students like me came in so that we can

change narrative a little bit but yeah there are many reasons why it was hard but that's just a

Yeah, like it's hard to really imagine that. Like it was kind of the same at Cambridge, like very few black students in each year. You'd be lucky if in a college there was like one or two black students. I think when it came to Asian students, there were always many more, like still a minority compared to white people, but like a sufficient critical mass that for me, I never felt like. I was like one of maybe like five or six brown kids in the college, but there were enough overall that I didn't feel that...

kind of, I was representing my race. Yeah. I think black people just get it worse than Asian people do. We would. Yeah, no, it was difficult. Like, it was really, really hard. And people always...

knew you because you stick out more so and then when things are happening in your college or university will always call you to do the press things and they always say come on come on like can you speak for us and you just think no actually because I think that as an institution you have a lot of work to do and before we now stand up for you you need to stand up for us and show up for your students and show out for them and stop saying that you want to diversify and they don't really do it like

Stormzy offers a scholarship and you turn it away. They turn it away? Yes. And then it went to Cambridge. Like, what do you think? Like things like that make you question. Yeah. They offered it to Oxford first. And we were all like, but why would you say no? And you can't, you can't tell us why. Things like that. You just get a little bit tired and you feel like, am I fighting the world just to exist in this space?

do you want me here? You know? And that's why the channel began truthfully. That is, that is why I started doing YouTube because I was like, I can't keep doing these conversations with people that I don't think care. I might as well just go to the internet and tell young black students, you can be here and you deserve a space here if you want to occupy it. And you don't have to change who you are. Just come as you are. I've never quite been able to make the argument for this to other people because, because,

When it comes to the diversity stuff, I guess some people would say, well, it's not like the university is being systematically racist and kind of oppressing black people, for example. It's just that black people don't get the grades. What do you say to that? That one makes me really, really angry because I don't think that...

there is a shortage of young, intelligent, talented and incredible black students in the UK. I think there's a lack of opportunity, a lack of nurturing and often a lack of love. That's what I really think. And if you're in a school like mine, like I just shared, my teacher say no. Does that mean V wasn't smart enough? No, because at that exact time that I went up to them to ask about this Oxford journey, three A's.

top A's like you couldn't question them and it was what the time when you could only do your A levels like first year then second year you get your results so I couldn't have scored better if I wanted to so at that time what's the reason to say no to a student who's passionate and has the grades

And then what, if I don't apply, now you think there's not a lot of black students that are smart, but there was one. She just didn't have the support to get here. So where do we go with that argument really and truly? And also if you are in a school like the school I was in where you'll go into class and you've now gotten that A in your first year and you know you're on track to get your A stars, you walk into class and they're telling you you're sitting next to someone who got an E. Fair enough, love it, let's all help each other.

I need to get my education right now. I can't babysit someone else because they need to be looked after by a teacher who can support them. They need to be in a different class because now what are you going to do when you have an A student and an E student? You've got to teach at B grade.

You have to teach at B grade. Do I have a chance of getting my A star? Really? So is it a lack of smart, intelligent black students or is it a lack of funding, a lack of resources and a lack of support in our schools? That's the question I would want to ask. Let's have that conversation with whoever's saying that. Yeah.

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then head over to brilliant.org forward slash deep dive. And the first 200 people to sign up via that link will get 20% off the annual subscription to the website. So thank you so much Brilliant for sponsoring this episode. The other question that I've never been able to answer is what should the university do about this? Because the problems are more upstream. They're more like earlier on in life, earlier in childhood, like the school system, the education system. And then when it comes to the actions of an individual university, you start saying, well, it's not their fault that like, I don't know, the...

low performing schools don't like encourage the students as much, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. And then the conversation goes so far back and so abstract that it stops becoming about things that universities can do. And they often use that as an excuse to not then do stuff. Oh no, the conversation is still very much about what the universities can do. Because let me tell you,

The journey begins with, yes, with family members and how many Oxford students have you had and then you get to the school and the lack of resources. But then there gets a point where some of those students do still make it through that filter system. So you might still have a student like me who finds her school, gets to that place and finally has an interview at Oxford.

Wonderful, fantastic. Now when she gets into that interview, there are these things called unconscious biases, right? We need the universities to start training their professors to start helping them look out for talent that is just beyond an A star, for example. Because let me tell you something, that B grade that I'm talking about where I've earned it next to an E student and a D student and I've now had to fight for my class and all the stuff, that B has been earned through blood, sweat, tears. It stands at the same...

in position as that A star and people find it difficult to understand what I'm saying when I say that, contextualize it. Okay. If you're in a school where there are four of you and you're learning and your teacher knows how many times you've blinked, your report card is accurate. It is exactly about you. Whereas some of our report cards are copied and pasted. When I come out with my B grade or my A grade, you better give it some respect. Right? So when you have things like that and students like that applying to places like Oxbridge,

These universities need to contextualize, look into how did that person get, was their heating working? Were they able to study and revise? And for them to still have the courage and bravery to apply and make it as far as an interview, maybe in the interview, let's give them a chance.

You know, maybe because people connect to people that they're similar to. So when that student walks in and says, oh my God, I saw you at the races and my dad always comes to your club and whatever, instant connection. You're like, oh, they get it. They'll understand. They'll fit in. You get in. Then the student comes in, coming in from Hackney. They didn't have the heating on. They didn't have the school support. They're nervous. They can't look you in the eye. But they've still applied and they still managed to ace that essay and whatever, whatever. Can we start contextualizing? That's what I've got to say. Hmm.

You speak pretty passionately about it. I can like, I can like feel, feel, feel the passion. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's why, that's why the channel began. I had too much to say that was pent up inside and it was just frustrating because every time I'd go home, I'd be hearing my friends like, oh my God,

god for you like what do they eat over there is it lobster like they're riding around harry potter like gowns and all this stuff i'm like you're so smart one of the smartest people i know but because of a lack of confidence a lack of support and a lack of thinking you can fit in a place like that we've lost you like you're you would never even consider coming to visit me because you're afraid of being put at a dinner table with five forks five knives all of this stuff when you'd have actually like you

We needed you, you know what I mean? We needed someone like you. So I get frustrated and passionate because I see the students that are missing out or that are at the other end of it. I see them and I'm like, man, if the world had just given you a little bit of love, you could have done wonders. So that's why. Wow. So given that the world is the way that it is, what can...

maybe if there's a student in that position listening or watching to this, what can they do to kind of help take matters into their own hands while at the same time campaigning and wishing that the world will change alongside? - Yeah, well, that is why the book, the channel, anything that I do that's public or on the internet, why I do it is for that reason. For someone who'd have been like me, who needed that older big sister, because for example, my mom, I told you, she lets me lead and then she follows, right? She would have never been the one who would have said,

Oxford, now follow me and I'll help you. Like that would have never happened. She doesn't know anything about it, doesn't understand how the system works. And there are lots of students like that whose parents literally have no clues. So if there's a student like that and then she goes to school and the teacher's like, no, no, no, we're not interested. And also I must say, before I answer your question, I don't blame the schools either because...

Sometimes they just don't have an understanding of Oxbridge themselves and they find it intimidating too. Or it's a little bit like, oh, it's extra work. We do personal statement classes for 25 students and now V wants a separate one for Oxbridge because it's different. We don't have the time or the resources. So it's easier to say no, not because their hearts are unkind, but it's just what they know maybe and whatever. So want to highlight that as well. Like there could be other reasons. Yeah.

I can forgive that. But yes, those students who are at home who are wondering what they can do to kind of help themselves, get on the internet. Watch YouTube channels like mine. The resources are free. You don't have to pay for this. You don't have to have extra private tuition. Get on the internet. There are so many study tubers out there, so many blogs out there. There are so many helpful things and sign up for free...

classes like empowered by v like i hate to be that person but things like empowered by v where every year we're having these annual events that are free having students like myself or jade or i mean we're gonna get you on there one day people like jack ali coming on to explain their experience how they write their personal statements how things that you just can't put a price on this stuff you know what i mean that can be as helpful as what your counterparts i mean

I don't know because I've never been to Harrow or Eton but what they could be getting there like we're trying to bridge the gap as much as we can so use all of these free resources around you because they're there for a reason and they are helpful if I must say so myself empowered by V um

just just as an aside um how how do you feel about the fact that it's called empowered by v like yeah your name being part of this like yeah okay so basically that is that is a story within itself but i was with my friends and i was like guys this event is coming up and at the time we're just calling it the event the event the event the event i was like no we need a name like this is getting ridiculous it needs a name and they're like what do you want to do like what is what's going on it's like i want to empower people and then i just call it

empowered and we all loved empowered and we're like yeah that works great then I was just like it doesn't it doesn't feel complete there's something missing there's something missing and I

And I suggested, I was like, what if we put by V, but a silent by V? At the time it was silent. So it was like, just so they know it's me doing it. So like empowered and underneath it's like, it's by V. Then they're like, no, it needs to be empowered by V together. And once it began, it was three in the morning. We had rich tea biscuits. We had cups of teas. There was no turning back. And I was like, okay, okay. We'll do it for now. But I was like, I don't know if it,

if it's a right thing to have my name in there because they're finding their empowerment for themselves and we're just helping facilitate that. We're not empowering them. They're, they're just looking for it. You know, it,

it was too late. By the time we had the event, the students loved it. They're like, yes, this is what it's all about. Woo. And I tried to change it every year. We do a survey. I'm like, guys, we're going to change it to something else. They're like, no. Then I was like, fine, we'll have to call it EBV. So I refer to it as EBV because I'm like, you know, it feels more comfortable, but they're like, no, empowered by V. So it's stuck now. And, and, and there's so many times I wish you knew how many times this conversation happens every year. I'm like,

Right, it's getting bigger now. Like we've got 15,000 students tuned in. Can we change it before we get to 20? Yeah, like no people like the name. No one wants to hear it. No one wants to hear it. So yeah, I hope that doing the book and calling the book empowered, people think I'm talking about the book. But now I'm like, now it's just confusing because it's two things like empowered, oh, written by V, oh, empowered by V, the event. I don't know where we go from here. The branding is not quite right. Yeah.

But yeah. Yeah, I remember. So when I was, when Jade was on the podcast and we were talking about her book, The Only Study Guide You'll Ever Need, she mentioned about how she cringed at first about the name. It's like, oh, it's a bit much. But then it kind of grows in you and you realize that actually, I like, I just thought it was a great name. And I think Empowered by V is a great name. But I guess like,

as v you feel a bit weird about they're like yeah and i thought about it i was like i'm sure there are people out there who you know like i don't know tommy hilfiger brock jacobs where at first they thought are we gonna really now it's just noble right and i think for people who encounter it for the first time or are just coming to it it's just it's just a name but for me i'm like

because I start to think about the word the meaning and like why V and what does that mean am I the one doing it am I yeah but I you have to sometimes also let things have their own life yeah so this is now beyond me which is crazy to say when it's got my name but it's now outside of me like the students have ownership of this now and I love that they get to shape and craft what

the things we talk about are what that platform looks like what the instagram does like how that platform in space helps them they shape it so i can't take i can't go in there and be like well i don't like the name so i'm just changing it it's too late now actually if i wanted to three years ago was the time now so what what is empowered by me yes i love that question people always they're like i don't want to ask because you're so passionate about it and like you talk about it for so long but can you just tell me

tell them what it is again but um yeah it's an academic empowerment platform so we're just bridging the gap between academic ability which the students already have and self-belief which they don't have so we're just trying to merge the two together to be like you are that person you better

own it and start taking up your space because the world it's it's yours for the taking and you can't help where you were born you can't help the situation that you're in but you can help how you react to it and what you do moving forward so take those bad moments reframe them if the glass is half full or half empty look at it as half full always never half empty because the moment you start looking at it as half empty you're missing out opportunities you're literally you

missing out what that half glass of water could do for you could save your life right but you're so focused on the lack of that no and I always tell my students as well that even if you have walked a really difficult journey in life that doesn't make you less than if anything

it makes you phenomenal because if you can end up in the same seat in the same table as other people who've obviously and this is the thing people often think that I'm really angry at people who've had an amazing life I'm like no that is what everyone wants to have like I want my children to not have to suffer like I don't think

your achievements are more, we should clap for them more because you had to struggle. Like I don't want people to struggle. That is the whole point of everything we're doing. Like we need everyone to be in a place where they can have things they like without having to have blood, sweat, tears. But if you're,

But if you have had to have that, that shouldn't be something you're embarrassed about. Like, if anything, there is strength in your story. There is strength in the journey you've walked. And be proud of it because if that's what you can do when you didn't have a lot, imagine when you have the resources. You're going to be unstoppable. Like, we should be afraid right now. Like, you are unstoppable.

You're on the journey to just doing amazing things. So that is what we try to do in Power by V, just trying to let students know that you are worthy of everything you want. You're worthy of being successful. You can't let your start determine your end. That is not how it works. And we're going to reframe and...

So what does that look like in practice? Like how do you empower people like this? We have workshops, so many empowerment workshops, which run for like two weeks, for example. And we'll take students, they'll come along, we'll ask them surveys. What are the things that you're struggling with most? And where do you think you need help with the most? They'll tell us. And it's typically, it's always, always things like, I don't think I deserve this or my family comes from this background and I'm just not sure people will look at me in a respectful light or always, it's never...

it's never to do with can you help me with getting better grades it's never that they know that they're smart it's always people just don't support me or I don't have that confidence

empowerment circle around me or people who are telling me you can do it. And then we become that for them. So we figure out what they are struggling with. And then for the two weeks, I just work with them. It's kind of like coaching in a way. It's like coaching and talking to them and working through that with them. That's one element. Then the biggest element is the event, which is the annual event that we do and getting all these people who I consider experts in their field. My friends are phenomenal. I think they're doing great things.

And we get them in and like, okay, Jade, you're great at the personal statements. Okay, Eve Bennett, you're great at talking about mental health and all this other stuff. So we bring them together and have this massive conference. And the students are taking notes. They're taking like mad notes. And then they always tell us, because we get feedback, the feedback we get is,

is crazy they'll tell us like after three months they'll come back and be like by the way the notes I've made from Impired by V the event I'm still referring to now and I'm still using and like I am feeling it so it's just about giving people a boost and letting them know you can do it because sometimes it actually is just that someone has literally never told you I can see you you're worthy of this and you can do it go go

And people, it can change your mindset. Like for me, if that teacher told me yes, oh.

That no shattered me. And I didn't apply in the end. I didn't until I got that foundation year the next year. So it can change everything for you. Even though you have those A's, that no or I don't believe in you, game changer. I feel like I just lived such a privileged upbringing in that no one's ever really said no. And like, you know, things are going well. You get good grades. Like obviously you're going to apply to Oxford or Cambridge. Obviously you're going to go for medicine. Cool. Let's go for it. Like no real adversity along the way. Yeah.

And I guess I also don't speak to enough people who have actually had some level of adversity in their lives to actually just like appreciate that that's a thing. It sounds like what you're saying is that for a lot of these people, they need that...

just just that boost of motivation that actually you can just do it that is it because imagine when you're at your lowest like whatever that looks like for you or whoever else when you're at your lowest moment or you've worn an outfit and you're doubting it you're already like look in the mirror like i shouldn't go out like this and the uber's outside it's telling you come on come on let's go and then you bump into someone on your way out and they're like oh what are you wearing

it's just confirmed all your fears you're going back in that house and you're going to change like that or if you do leave you're going to be looking down and thinking I should have never worn this and closing your jacket and that is the same element of like

support that people need in their regular lives you're already thinking man like we live above the chicken shop right we live above the chicken shop it's always so noisy people already look down on me at school they laugh at me we don't have enough money there's no gas electricity and i'm gonna go and sit next to people who are gonna be the future prime ministers at oxford no way i could never go there and then finally you get courage to like tell your teacher oh maybe i'm thinking of it and they tell you it's not for people like us

Your fears are already on the brink. The last thing you need is someone to confirm them, especially when they're not true. And it's just like, it's just not even true. Your fears getting confirmed, worst thing. So we have to come in and like try to undo that. And some of this stuff is years in the making. This is from high school, primary school, just always been in circles of people just being like, this is it. There's nothing more to it. And like, I need to come in and be like, come on.

You've got this. And at first they're like, oh, look at this girl. What's Sean about? Like boost of energy. Like, oh, get out of here. And by the end of it, they're like, yeah, I can do it. And then when I get the emails being like, I applied and I got in. Yeah. Oh, just fills me with joy. And it's every day. I get this message every day. The, by the way, like I would have never applied. You kind of strike me as like the modern day Tony Robbins in like a great way. Yeah.

because like i think every generation has these kind of motivational people that really what they do is they empower people and kind of give them permission to do the thing which they already have in them anyway yes um you know tony robbins there's this book called um the magic of thinking big which like had an enormous impact on me like 10 years ago when i first discovered this kind of stuff and it sounds like that's what you're doing for kind of this this current generation of students and it happened

It happened by mistake. It happened by, it was just anger. Like it came from anger of sitting there constantly at university in that foundation year and just seeing the things I was just seeing and like hearing or feeling. And I just thought to myself,

am I looking down on myself why am I looking in the mirror and the imposter syndrome was hitting me I just kept thinking they've definitely made a mistake they're gonna genuinely come in here and be like what like you're the first in your school like your family have do they even know what Oxbridge stands for like most of them are literally like what are you talking about Oxford Cambridge together Oxbridge okay

Like it's that kind of conversation you're having. You're not starting with which college, you're starting with, this is what Oxford is and this is why I wanna go there. So I just thought, what are you doing here? And after I met the people I met and they tell me that they've had five brothers and sisters come here and their parents met here and like their dad paid for that building. And I'm like-

The first time I saw Oxford was when I went to move in. That was the first time I stepped foot in the city, let alone the university, it was moving in day. And these people are telling me they've grown up coming here for picnics and lunch. And you feel so out of place. It is ridiculous. And I thought...

nah, like I can't believe I was gonna not come here. And Oxford, by the way, is a representation of whatever it is in your life that you're thinking of. It could be your dream job, could be your dream whatever. I just happened to experience this. I thought I was gonna not be here because of a lack of confidence and a lack of support. And it just frustrated me. Like I was so mad. I was so mad and I started a channel.

And I think one of the first videos, I ended up deleting it because it was so, I was like, is Oxford diverse? Is it? No, it's not. But we're going to change that. And I was literally screaming. And then obviously the channel took shape and now it's in a better place. It seems like you're genuinely kind of mission and purpose driven. Thank you. And like a really, so the reason I'm so surprised by this is because like,

You know, there's a quote which apparently is often attributed to J.P. Morgan, which is that, you know, someone always has two reasons for doing something, the good reason and the real reason. Mm.

And if I think about my motivations for starting a YouTube channel, I could say that, you know, there's, you know, I want to help people. I like teaching people study tips and the comments are nice and all that kind of stuff. But really, if I dig deep, I love the attention. I love the admiration, the social status, the prestige, the money associated with it, that kind of stuff. And if I have to be honest with myself, then that's probably a significant part of why I do the YouTube thing and the internet thing on top of like the whole helping people aspect of it.

That's interesting. I'm just kind of curious, like, because for you, it really sounds like the helping people is like the majority of it. Yes. Yeah. What's going on there?

Yeah, well, the thing is, before I began YouTube, I didn't know anybody in YouTube. Like all my friends or people that I've known is through doing it. And like they reach out, I reach out and then now you cross paths and then you become friends, right? But I didn't know anybody and I didn't really consume YouTube. I still don't right now. People always ask me, who's your favorite YouTuber? Who do you watch? I don't really use the app.

app for my own personal i just upload and i go right so when i started it you have to imagine like no one no one i knew was doing it and i would i would share the link on facebook for my friends and family to like share to their to their nieces nephews whatever i was like oh if we can get a hundred people we did something like it never it just never crossed my mind that youtube could be a job that blew my even when my management approached me i said what like i just i

I don't know why I didn't know, 'cause I guess no one talks about it on the internet really. Like now it's more open with people like you as well, sharing the stats and the figures and stuff. But I just didn't know you could actually have a living on there and sustain yourself. So I was working in McDonald's before I went to uni. So from McDonald's, I was not thinking like YouTube. I was like, maybe when I get to uni I could do Starbucks. Like who knows, I could level up. That is literally what I was thinking.

And so starting it, it would be so hard for my brain to have known that. And I remember literally saving every last penny to be like, we need to get something like a camera or something that we can use. Because my sister was like, oh my God, like that's money you're never going to see again. You know, like it's going to be gone. I was like, well, you know, if I want to make videos, what am I going to do? And like, no one would have ever told me it was an investment because it's going to return. Like, I don't even think like that. So yeah.

know like if I had to try and think of what the real reason yeah I was just angry yeah

That is it. And if I hadn't gone to Oxford, I don't think I'd have started a YouTube channel. It just came from people kept asking me questions like, what do they eat there? How do you do this? I was like, oh, let's just send a link. It's easier to send a link. It was, I guess that could be the real reason. Laziness. I couldn't be bothered to keep saying the same thing over and over again. Let's put it on a channel. Let's have everyone watching it in their bedroom. You can go back, pause, rewind, whatever. So yeah,

I don't know. So the success that you've had now on YouTube, one thing that a lot of YouTubers talk about is as the channel goes bigger, what started as a vehicle for empowering people, giving good educational content, that kind of stuff, now becomes like, oh, will this video do well? How did that video perform? 10 out of 10. Oh, no, I feel depressed because my video didn't perform very well.

How do you feel about the stats? I hate that feature on the thing anyway, about this 1 out of 10, 10 out of 10. Before that, I really like... I just didn't think it was necessary. I don't know who said, yeah, let's give that feature a go, but please remove it wherever you are, YouTube world. But...

Once again, my mom, she is so good at keeping anybody's feet on the ground. As in, she'll be like, whoa, whoa, whoa, did you see that? Like over a hundred people commented, we couldn't fit them in our back garden to give them tea to say thank you. And I'm like, mom, you're so right. Like we actually couldn't fit these people on our street properly.

or in our back garden. So for me to ever be ungrateful or not ungrateful, that's wrong because it is a craft, is a job. And I can see why people would be bothered about if it doesn't perform well. But for me to be, if it's had 10,000 people watch it, that's a lot of people. When artists do sell out a show and it's 10,000, they're like, woohoo. But now the internet obscures our view and makes 10,000 seem small. And it's like,

I don't know, the numbers just are so big to me. They just, they're so massive. And the fact that people will be watching your story and you'll have like 10 replies. I'm like, these are 10 human beings who are coming into your world and then leaving a comment or leaving a like or watching.

I don't know how to explain it. My family just celebrate everything. And if I was to ever go to them and say, oh my God, only got 10,000 views, they would humble me so quickly. Like what? 10,000 people. This didn't exist a few years ago. And maybe also...

I need to start having that mindset of like keeping track and tabs on the numbers and stuff because I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. But as of right now, it's like...

what was the purpose of the video or the channel? And if the purpose is to reach people, 10,000 people is not a bad, like that is a lot of people. Now, if you get a hundred thousand or a million, that's like a bonus, you know? And I don't know. I wish, I wish people could like spy on my family for a week and just see us when there's no, because I think people often think, oh, because the camera's on that I have to say this stuff or that I have to be like super positive and like, woo. I wish,

I wish you could see the family with no camera, no one there. This is us 24 seven. And Jade, I went to visit her in Berlin and she'd just been on a bike accident and I was so sad for her. And I went to see her and my mom was like, oh, she was feeling it. She was like, oh my God, I fell.

I thought when it happened, I felt it. I said, mom, no, you didn't. You didn't feel anything. Stop it. But she's so like in tune with her emotions and stuff. And then when I went to see Jade, she was like, write this in a card for me because I couldn't see her. So she texted me and said, put it in a card. As Jade was reading it, she was crying. I was like, why? Like, I was so shocked because I wrote it out for her. I was like, why are you crying? She's like, does your mom speak to you like this all the time? Is this just how you are? I was like, yeah.

You got hit by a bike. So she's going to tell you like, get rid of the victory slayers, the people who don't want to see you win. Your light shines. It was full of all this stuff. And Jade was like, literally sobbing. And I was like, why? She's like, no one says this stuff to me. And I can't believe you were raised on this. I was like, this is so normal to me that like when I read it, I was like, that's just her saying, we'll get well soon. Right. So if you saw her family behind the scenes, it's just constant. We just, we live for this. Yeah.

So it's like kind of constantly...

The gratitude stuff. Yeah, we really are. And I think also it's when you've seen what the other side of not having it is like, right? I'm very, very aware that at any moment, all of this could disappear. Any moment it could disappear and I could easily, there is no reason why I could easily not be working at McDonald's again, right? Like, yes, of course, now it's a bit different maybe with the degrees and all this stuff. But a few years ago, what is the real difference between my sister and I?

because she's still at home, right? And she's still working a regular job and all this stuff. And I just happened to be in this new world. But whenever I go home, like my mom, my sister, my mom's running for the bus every single day. She just won't, she won't do her driving lessons. I don't know why, but she's still running for the bus every single day. And if I'm going to go somewhere with her, we're getting the bus. And my sister still works a regular job. And if I say to her on my birthday, oh, I really want this. She's like, excuse me, that's 50 pounds. That takes me this many hours to get. You're not having that. It's still...

I could never lose sight of it because it's just there. It's at home. And when I call my family in Zimbabwe, like...

I don't know. So 10,000, we celebrate that. It's not a low number to us. That's pretty good. I'm going to clip that and like save it on my computer. Like whenever I see like a 10 out of 10 video, I'll be like, no, I need some motivation. Call my mom. Call my mom. I'm telling you, this woman, she's got some classic things that she says. And growing up, I would just be like, oh, but mom, like all my friends have Barbie dolls and they're going to get them for Christmas and I really want one. We couldn't afford a new Barbie doll. No way.

way she'd take me to the car boot sale and we would go through the secondhand stuff and then find a Barbie doll and I'm like but mom like it's got a scratch and it's missing like an ear she's like no no no no you're looking at it wrong reframe it this Barbie doll is so special she's got a story to tell your friend's Barbie doll like it's brand new great I'm happy for them but look at yours like

Can you imagine what happened for her to lose her ear? You can imagine anything you want. And your book has got a tea stain. What was the person reading it thinking? She would make everything so much fun and nothing was ever...

be sad about this it was like no embrace it like we found your Barbie doll special in the back of the boot at the corner like you were meant for her you were supposed to save her did it that kind of stuff that was her all the time now I'm it's it's so weird I'm like tearing up as you're describing that because I'm like I'm like feeling feeling the passion um

But yeah. Yeah, it's such an unusual amount of like this positivity that you don't encounter in real life normally. Yeah, no, I get this all the time. Even my friends that I'm friends with now, they're literally like, like I really thought it was because you're on Instagram and like your story needs to be jazzy. Like you wake up like this.

like this yeah now they am and you're like singing and dancing and you're and to me it's so normal like I don't even see as I am a certain way I just think this is this is it you have one life I'm not gonna waste it being sad love it um I have so many questions about the book um so my baby um it's

it's really nice it's it's like it's like very very like nice nice nicely packaged um initially when i heard you were you were uh when i heard you were writing a book i just sort of had in my head like the standard penguin non-fiction book it's just so pretty yeah yeah yeah i thought i i made sure like my my editor is really incredible like i keep saying she she

She really knew me well because she'd obviously studied my channel before she reached out and she'd had an idea. And the fact is as well, she messaged me what she thought she wanted me to write. And I already had a Google doc of like what I would want to write in the future if I had a book.

it matched so much that's why I was like yes because for me I was like you've understood me we've never spoken before and you've actually gotten the vision from watching random bits of my videos and I was like yeah we're doing this so when it came time for the colors or the

book she already knew if it's not an explosion of yellow bright sunshine and someone feels happy when they see it i don't want it like we're not doing the cool thing or like it needs to be on no i want it to be exactly what's going to be inside there that's why i got the little gold little bits because when you finish reading it i want you to just feel like you can take over the world

So the first chapter is about finding your purpose. Yes. So, okay, let's say I don't really know what my purpose is. Yeah. How do I go about slash how does a viewer or a listener go about answering this question of like, what the hell is my purpose? Yeah, that's a question I get all of the time. And I always say, what is that thing, that thing that just...

You can't stay away from it. You keep thinking about it. And obviously this can go wrong. I do understand that. Like you could be thinking some bad things and I could be encouraging the wrong thing, but let's just begin off of the base that it's a good thing and it's a regular thing, right? What is that thing that you can't get off your mind? A debate you hear on the bus and you literally, strangers, you have to turn around and chime in. Or anytime you have a chance to do free things, you're researching it. Like you just can't stay away from it. What is that thing?

thing that thing has something in you that is driving you like you want to be a part of it you want to what what would you want to do for free if you didn't have to think about bills and all this other stuff what would you happily dedicate your time to for free and that thing that thing is embedded in your purpose that that's a good starting point so then you figure out what that thing is and then you follow that track for me helping people

Okay, you want to help people view. What do you always do? What do you always do? Oh, in class, you get in trouble for teaching people. You always find yourself speaking up. Oh, maybe it's education. I don't know. And then you start to like go down this little rabbit hole until you figure out what that specific thing

niche within it is. And also when you're finding your purpose, it's not like you have to make a lifelong decision, like you're married to it and that's the end of all. No, you could have a purpose that you want to pursue for the next three years and that's that. And then you're done with it and you want to move on to something else. That's okay. Finding your purpose is not,

It's not final. It's like what Michelle Obama says, you're becoming, you're always constantly becoming and things might change. Who knows what V in 10 years will be doing? I hope she'll be doing this, but I might fall out of love with it or I might feel like I've given all I can give and there's nothing else. Things are not going to, I don't know, who knows, but it could change. But for now, figure out what you can't stay away from, what is always on your mind, what keeps you awake at night, what world problem

bothers you to the core and that is where YouTube began right I was like

man the lack of diversity is oh so annoying I'm going to start a channel so it could be oh I hate the way that I keep seeing dogs being treated when they're stray dogs or when they're abandoned oh I'm going to go to the vet and then you're talking to the vet and then you want a work experience then you figure out this new thing you want to do you just kind of like you need to track it trace that thing don't like ignore the thing that's living in your heart you know what I mean let's say you're halfway through your JP Morgan internship and

And the bros are like, hey, V, how do I find my purpose? Because the way you're describing the purpose stuff is very mission-driven. What's the problem in the world you want to solve? And to be honest, if I think of most of my friends and me as well, we don't really have that, oh, my God, I just feel so passionate about diversity that that's going to be my problem. And equally, I can imagine a bunch of my friends who now work at places like J.P. Morgan and McKinsey and stuff.

They're not particularly thinking, well, how am I going to change the world? They're kind of thinking, I want to make a load of money and have a good life. Well, with people like that, I'm pretty sure that when you're at JP Morgan or wherever you are, I'm pretty sure when you get home, there is something that has your interest. There is something that you try to fit in your spare hours because you can't do it because of work, right? There is a thing. You've got skills, things that you're just good at, whether you love it or not, you're good at it. Then you have things that you really like.

care about or that you want to be in, you have to find a way of merging those two worlds, right? You want to be able to go to work or go to the thing that you spend most of your time doing and love it. So if you're at JP Morgan and yes, you're doing amazing, you're getting all the promotions in the world, but you're still feeling like something is missing, then that's obviously not your purpose. Your purpose is

It's the thing that you're rushing out of work to go home to do. And that could be gaming. I don't know. It could be wanting to create the most diverse game or maybe the most interesting game that young people can use because...

I don't know, or maybe you want to use a game that people who might have disabilities can use to do da-da-da. Like you need to just find what your interest is and then unpack it from there. So even if it is painting or maybe you love skateboarding or whatever it may be, people had to create Microsoft, right? We had to get a version of Microsoft and that probably came from someone being like, I like coding or I like doing da-da-da. And now Microsoft went on to

help people do different things. Like we use Microsoft for good, you know? So I think it's thinking about

What do you like to do in your spare time? In your spare time when no one is monitoring you, where you're not being paid, you're on holiday, it's Christmas break. Okay, you're at your mom's house, it's Christmas break, there's a week to do. What are you gonna spend your hours doing? And you might find yourself on the trading apps or the stocks apps and you might find actually, I just like making a lot of money. That's okay too. You just gotta live for you. And if that thing that you're doing is making you happy, if JP Morgan makes you happy,

It doesn't have to, you don't have to call it your purpose You just call it the reason I'm living I don't know Yeah, there's a, yeah, on the thing of kind of finding your purpose There's a phrase that I heard which is that You know, that thing that you think about in the shower Is probably the thing that you should probably be doing That's what I'm talking about And that was really helpful for me when I was trying to figure out Do I want to continue doing medicine or not? Because I never think about medicine in the shower

And I was like, okay, interesting. And then like at some point further down the line, I was doing a whole like deep dive into the internet and books and stuff to answer this question of like, how do you figure out what to do with your life? There was another exercise I came across, which was kind of like the sort of ideal ordinary week. Three years from now, like fast forward your Google calendar, whatever, and just block out what would you like to be doing? What is your ideal? Oh, I love that. And you know, what are the, what are the sort of hobbies? What are the things you want to try out? What's on the bucket list?

And again, I kind of did this and I was like half an hour later, I was like, there is no mention of medicine anywhere on this list. Oh, damn. That's annoying. Yeah. Cause I really, I really wanted to feel passionate about the medicine stuff. And I just realized it, it doesn't really, it didn't really feel like my purpose. It didn't really feel like my jam. Exactly. And then there was the whole like sunk cost thing around it. The whole, well, I've invested eight years into this already. The whole, what are people going to say? What's my mom going to say? People on the internet are going to hate me for this because if you suddenly leave the NHS, it's a big deal, et cetera, et cetera. Um,

But it's so it's like for me, I guess it's still a work in progress. But I keep looking for other ways to kind of because I think like, as you said, it's not a permanent decision. Like I think a lot of people think of the idea of I need to find my purpose as this is the thing I will do for the next 80 years of my life. Yeah. But the way I kind of try and think of it is more like this is just the next season of my life. And for the next season of my life, I like the idea of, you know, the thing I think about in the shower is making YouTube videos. So let's just do more of that.

And then maybe my plans will change five years from now, but try and try not to think too hard about it further down the line. Yeah. I love that. I really, really love that. You said that about this is just the season. And if that season lasts 30 years, great. You had a great season, you know, like it's fine. And if it happens to last a year, whatever.

Like I just quit my job. I literally just quit my job a week ago and I feel great about it. I thought it was going to be one thing and it turned out to not. And I'm not going to keep myself trapped in something because I announced it to the internet. Like at that point, that is when I'll know that something has gone wrong for me because that's not why we were here. That's not what this is all about. And if I now start shaping myself

my life based on what will do better, like what will perform better in the views or what people will think about it, then something has gone really wrong. There's a quote that I wanted to run past you that I've been thinking about recently, which is that your passion is for you. Your purpose is for others. Whoa. Discuss. Your passion is for you and your purpose is for others. Yeah.

I suppose I can see what they're saying. Like you could have a purpose that you're serving, but you're not passionate about it. Like medicine, right? You could be a really great doctor. And obviously when you are there doing your doctoring stuff, you're saving lives, right? And that obviously serves all of us and the NHS and the UK, and we appreciate it. But if you're not passionate about it, then you're not pouring into you. You're now running on empty. Right.

So I think I agree with that quote. Like your passion has to be something for you. So you need to love medicine. You need to be, have you read When Breath Is Air? Yes. Like he was living through a surgery, right? Like even on his dying days, he was so committed to it because it was everything for him.

Now, imagine if it wasn't. Like, I don't think that book would have read the same. Right? You can hear it. And I think your passion does need to be something that you love. Something that...

It's in your core and then the purpose follows it, right? Because you can serve others when you're at 100%. It's pretty hard. Like even I guess celebrities when they've got all of this money and they've got all of the time and all the stuff, when they choose their causes that they're campaigning for, technically they could put that money to good use for different things. But they have to choose something that they're not just the face off. Like you need to be able to show up.

We need more than just you putting your money in. Okay. It needs to be more than just a quick Instagram tag. Like, do you really care? And I think that's, that's the beauty of being able to define what that means because anyone could come up to me and say, but the, the climate crisis is more important than education right now. Right. People could justify any of the 17 sustainable development goals and tell you that actually should be this one that you're focusing on. But yeah,

If my passion is not there, yes, of course I care about the climate crisis. It affects every single one of us, but it's not something that I'm gonna invest as much as my time as I would education. And that is okay. We're one person. You are not a time traveler. You can't be everywhere at once. So find what it is that for now you care about. Who knows in five years, I could be the biggest climate activist in the world. Who knows? But for right now,

this is what I'm doing, I care about it and I can serve people and if you can get those two to meet, magic.

Yeah, the analogy that came to mind as you were saying this was, you know how on airplanes, they're like, put your own mask on first. Yeah. And then before helping someone else. Right. I feel like putting your own mask on first is finding the thing that you're passionate about, that you enjoy. I love that. And then you can be like, all right, cool. Now that we've ticked that box, let's now turn my attention to kind of helping other people. Because if you try and do the helping other people without feeling the passion, you end up like burning out. And ultimately, it's not like...

That is such a good analogy and I can literally visually see it.

It makes so much sense. Imagine, imagine trying to put everyone's mask on. Yours is not on. You're literally running out of oxygen. You can do more when you are at 100%. I always say that. It's in the book. I'm like, you can't give the world 100% when you yourself don't know what that looks like for you. And when I took that two months off the internet to write my book and focus on my degree, I couldn't do it.

I couldn't do it and I will never try and do it. I will never try and show up when I haven't yet showed up for me. And I know that that can sound a bit selfish and I'm glad it does because you should be selfish with your mental health, with what your needs are before you try and give to the world because then you'll go resentful.

okay you'll grow resentful like imagine you put all those masks on everybody else and there's no more left for you yeah you're not going to be feeling the greatest yeah because you're going to be like but what about what about me like who who's the doctor for the doctor right that kind of thing i just think um find find your passion and make sure make sure you feel alive

Yeah, that's very much the vibe I got. So I did an interview with Chrissy Cheller, who had that book over there, Do This For You. Oh, yes. I think I watched a clip. Yeah. So she's great. And she's also very, very much like mission focused to try and kind of empower women to take better care of their health and be more confident, that kind of stuff, similar to your kind of vibes.

And she was saying that as well, like, you know, she wakes up at five in the morning, which is amazing. And then kind of between 5 a.m. and 10 a.m., those are her hours for her. She goes to the gym, does her training, does her

commute, all that kind of stuff. So that when she goes to work, she can then show up fully for the mission, but her needs come first still at the end of the day. And I feel like that's like a really great way of, because I think often there is this like a lionization of the martyr, of the martyr. Like, oh, this person is giving so much of themselves that they've killed themselves in the pursuit of this like goal.

It's like, okay, but it's not very sustainable. No, no, that's why I was saying it earlier about the fact that you need to be able to make sure that

yourself know why you're doing something if there's a book start with a why right you've got to start with a why because if if you're if your mission and your purpose are kind of like aimless and you're just doing it because you've been told to do it you'll lose momentum and I say this to students as well about choosing your degree for example right because people always ask me this question how do you know the right degree to choose is blah blah blah and I'm like

When your parents have told you what you had to study or society tells you this is the right thing to study, yeah, okay, great. You're going to apply. You're going to get into uni. You're going to do well in those first few weeks. It's going to be great. Then that essay crisis is going to hit.

And let me tell you what's going to keep you going when those moments arrive is your passion for the thing. Caring about, oh my God, I really want to understand history and my place in the world. Oh, you have to get through this essay, right? That little thing then keeps you going like, I love my degree. It's just a hard day.

Now, hating your degree plus having the crisis and having to go through the lectures, it's going to be a pretty difficult road. So I always try to say, if you can, because I know that there are people who are in situations where they don't have a choice, right? This is what you study because it's what we've always done. This is what gets the money and that's the end of the discussion. But if you have the choice and you're able to exercise it,

You better do it because not a lot of people have that. Yeah. So you better use that privilege when you have it. Nice. So changing gears a little bit, we've talked a little bit about purpose. I'm very interested to hear your thoughts about goals. Okay. Because I've been, I don't know, I'm quite anti-goals. Okay. So my theory on goals is that a goal is like fine if it's like, it sort of gives you a direction. Yeah.

But then I find it helpful to just like forget about the goal because the way I think of it is like it's not really about the destination. It's far more about the journey. As Marnie Cyrus says, it's the climb. And, you know, what are the things that I can do kind of day to day that will help make my life more fulfilling or more meaningful or more impactful without really thinking about like the destination I'm trying to get to?

Interesting. Interesting. I might have to disagree because... Okay, please. I'd love to hear it. Because... So you're trying to make your life better, trying to like put systems in place that can help make it easier, like what you're saying, like day to day, right? But also...

The thing with goals is they don't lock you into anything, right? And I speak about that in my book when I'm talking about the goal setting systems that I use. They don't have to lock you into anything. Like if your goals lock you into something, you're doing it wrong. They need to be adjustable. They need to be able to change depending on the context. You can't be like, the goal is to be a cheerleader at Harvard and then a pandemic hits. What do you do now? We just give up on the Harvard dream. No, you have to adjust

to your circumstances and your situation financial pandemic whatever it is so i think that your goals they shouldn't be locking you in they should be something that you can adapt and doing them regularly helps as well so being like oh i have to do this one thing and that's what my life is driven towards it already you can see where the flaws are in that but every every month or every two months people do tend to do three months quarterly whatever it may be every month or so what

What season am I in? What prioritize? What do I want to prioritize right now? And then having something you're working towards. Because for example, saving.

Like imagine just saving and there's no goal that you're saving for. When that Nando's takeaway temptation comes up, you're going to get it. But if you have a rough idea like, oh, I roughly want to save for my first deposit for my home and I need 30 grand or something in the next three years, it means that every year I need to save 10, which means that in six months, five, which means this month, there's rice at home.

So like it kind of, what an analogy. Nice, love it, yeah. It kind of helps, but I can agree with you about the idea of the things that are permanent. Nothing should ever be permanent. I don't care whether it's marriage, whether it's a home, whether it's even your degree or your job, nothing should ever, because you're evolving human, you're multifaceted, your emotions change, your goals change, whatever it may be. But I think to not have things

goals at all. I struggle to see where the motivation will come from because like you could wake up every day and decide, I don't know, you just wake up every day and then you're just doing what? I don't get it. Okay, so if I think back to when I started the YouTube channel, people were like, what are your goals for the channel? And I think generally what people are expecting is some kind of number. I want to hit 10k subs, I want to hit whatever. Okay. And my philosophy on this was always like,

I don't care about the number. I just want to make one video every week. If I can just make one video a week, then that's all good. See, to me, that's a goal. Okay, yeah. So maybe we're kind of saying the same thing, we're just kind of using different technology. I completely understand what you're saying about like, oh, it doesn't need to be if I don't hit a million by the end of 2020. Okay, input goals versus outcome goals. Okay. So one video a week is an input goal that's 100% within my control. Okay. Whether my video gets 10,000 views or not is broadly outside of my control. Yeah.

So with that in mind, what's your stance on output goals? Outcome goals, rather.

Oh, it's tricky. It's tricky. It's tricky because I can see why people would need them because they're like, oh, this idea of the million subscribers, right? That's what's going to be driving me. Whereas for me, I'm more like you in the sense of, why don't we just think about the systems that we're going to have? And if it so happens that you get the million, fair enough. Even with graduating, my mom...

I mean, it's starting to sound like she doesn't expect anything of me, but she did think I was going to graduate, but she didn't necessarily care what I graduated with. Like there was no, if it's not a first class, don't bother. She was like, if you enjoy your time, you learn stuff, you put yourself out there, you raise your hand in class, you actually immerse yourself in this Oxford experience and you own it as your own. For me and her, I'd reached the goal. Like the moment I finished my exams, I closed my laptop because obviously I was at home. I walked downstairs to like a party.

Like my mom was, there was, we didn't even know my results yet. Did he even send off? Did the computer crash? We don't know, but I finished. And that was what we cared about. So I can see what you're saying. And maybe actually I live my life.

avoiding the output goals like the big strong things but you still need something like it's like a to-do list we all we all like what i say we all i love it to do this because when you take it off you just feel like imagine being like your to-do list is in your head and it doesn't matter as long as you wake up today yeah right it's gonna be like you could just spend the whole day just on netflix yeah

So I don't know. I find it tricky to see how you could live without any type of goals. Sure. Yeah. Maybe, maybe, maybe the discussion is what's the version of goals? Yeah. No, I think, I think it is that. Cause like I, I have loads of goals, but they're all like broadly input goals that are within my control. Yeah. And that's okay too. Yeah. I don't think, I don't think it has, I don't think people need to put pressure on themselves to be like, if, if I finished law school, I've got to be a lawyer now.

Who said who? What if you have a friend like right now and I won't say his name. I don't know if he cares me to say this, but I have a friend who's doing medicine and he literally has no desire to practice it. He just enjoyed learning it. He's going to be a doctor by the time January arrives. And we're, I'm so excited for him. Like I can't wait to help him plan this graduation party. And the fact that he doesn't want to be a doctor. Now let's figure out what you want to do. I don't think the degree is a waste.

in my eyes like i don't think the ultimate like this goal is only achieved if you then become a doctor and i want to raise my kids like that okay so so continuing like because i'm i'm i'm really curious about you about your thoughts on the on this goal stuff so would you would you set the goal of get into harvard or would you set a goal of apply to harvard with the best application i can i can do

Okay, that is really good. Really good stuff there, Abby. Mine, personally, which I don't know if it's going to contradict what I've said, would be the getting in. Okay.

The getting in would be one thing. The staying in is another. And the graduating is another. I would split them into three. Whereas I feel like other people would put the getting in, staying in and graduating is like one thing and the goal falls apart if one element is not there. But for me, the getting in is like, oh my God, like, and this genuinely happened. We had this.

had a party for the getting in when I finished the exams at a party and then now the graduation you saw in the garden like it was genuinely three elements and there's gonna be another one because they're doing in person at Harvard so we go again but um and that's that's great that's okay so I don't know if that answers your question but I would split it into rather than the applying part yeah but even though I still celebrate that as well because I have lots of students that come up to me like

I applied for Oxford, got the interview and I didn't end up getting in. I'm like, hello, you still got the interview. Like that is amazing, right? So I think it depends on the individual and how they want to break it down. But for me, if I was looking at that MBA situation, the getting in is one part of the process.

situation then the actual enjoying it staying in if my mental health is not doing well when i'm there if it's not what i enjoy i'm gonna leave but it doesn't take away from the fact that i got it and then if i end up making it to graduation my god that's like a whole other thing okay

Just basically, I guess, find ways to throw as many parties as you can. That's how I live life. No, I mean, that makes a lot of sense. And the way like motivation is sustained is through these like little successes. And the more you can celebrate the successes along the way, the more motivation there is and it's just kind of fun and life is good and fun.

And you don't discriminate within them. Like I said, when I walked down those stairs after finishing the last exam at Oxford, the party was already happening and my family would not have treated that party differently had there then ended up being a fail in the grading, whatever. That party still has its moment. So I think it's really respecting each part of the process as well. If you're gonna go down the route of focusing on your input goals, you might as well do it properly.

Yeah, that makes sense. But there's two goals. Yeah, there are two goals. I think, yeah, my thing of I don't believe in goals is actually like a semantic thing. I do believe in goals, just generally goals in my control and input goals. Yeah. Because like, you know, I'm working on a book at the moment. And when I, there's like two different goals that I have had at different points. One of them is, I want this to hit the New York Times bestseller list. Wow. And the other one is, I want to write a book I'm proud of. And when I think about that first one,

It sucks all of the motivation out of writing this book. Yeah, that's such a shame. Because see what you're doing there is you've placed...

You've placed the importance or the success of the book in the New York Times bestseller. Yeah, in like what other people have decided as opposed to what I've decided about it. Whereas like if the book is great and let's just say it hits the UK and does amazing in the UK, but people are really using it and they are opening that thing, they're highlighting there, they're putting different bookmarks, they're like printing it out, telling their friends, sending quotes, sharing it.

versus it like maybe it hits the best times because people just buy it but they never read it what would you prefer it just having the title of bestseller or it being like an actual piece of people's life that's the thing that i want do you know what i mean and also for yourself right like

I, we haven't, this book is not out yet. My book is literally not out yet, but I look at it with such pride. Like it is my, genuinely my baby. Like I've read it and reread it and read it and reread it. And I will share it with people that obviously in my circle that I can. And I'm so proud of it. Now, now what happens next once it's out is so out of my control that I haven't even, I haven't even thought about. Okay.

where it what's going to happen to it once it's out because whether or not it does well or not like I still wrote that thing that's still one year of my time of my thoughts of my life in there and I'm still so proud of it hence the book launch party is happening it's

Two days after it's out, right? Because you know how the family works now. Might as well party. Exactly. Imagine if I was to wait, only do a party when it hits New York's bestseller, right? And then imagine it never does. Yeah. And then it's like, what? So was... Yeah. The book is going to be sitting there like, what did I do? Like, I still came out. I still, I was here and it's still helpful for the few people that read it. And it doesn't deserve a party because it didn't hit certain numbers. Like...

But also I get it. I get it. You can't just be like, as long as it's out there, I'm happy because it's still also a business. It's still also, there are a number of people involved in this or people who, you know, I get it. You also need to be realistic. I think I also avoid too much of that conversation too much. Like I need to find a better balance. And it's one of my goals for 2022 is to kind of be more honest,

businessy business minded and less detached from it because I think I've been so put off from it for so long and I just don't know why and I think it's I think it's the reasons of why I began the whole channel right like to now think of it as like it's a brand or all those words make me so uncomfortable and I'm like why I need to tap into that look into that and for so long I was like oh it's so good like I just don't care about it like yeah I'm so great it's like no actually like

that is not what the version of empowerment that you're trying to build is about. You want your young girls to be financially literate. You want them to be as knowledgeable about what's happening with their mortgage as their husbands are like they're equals in this. You want them to be in the labor market. Like you don't, you're not just trying to,

say empowerment and education, it's in every aspect. So for me to shy away from the business aspect when it's happening, it's not as though I'm at home thinking about starting a channel. I'm like, oh, it's got to hit this many numbers and we've got to make this much money. It's already happening. So why am I avoiding it? That's something I've got to like battle with myself. So I can't blame you for thinking about the New York Times bestseller.

But also, I wouldn't want you to be lost in that and lose the fact that you've just written a book. Like, don't lose this, chasing just this. Because imagine, I'm not saying it's going to happen, but imagine that never happens. Does that mean you never celebrate your book? No, exactly. Yeah, that's like that kind of difference between those two different goals, like book I'm proud of versus book that does well on the stats, basically. I think that...

That difference is my philosophy on goal setting, which is that the write a book I'm proud of to me feels like a much more motivating goal. When I sit down and think, okay, I'm going to try and write a book I'm proud of. It feels good as like a goal to shoot for. Do you think the two are not compatible or something? Like, are you thinking if you wrote a book that you were completely proud of, like you put everything into it,

that it might not be a great book or are you like should we write for the New York Times bestseller and that might be a book you're not proud of like do you think the two can't exist together I think they can exist together and I would love for them to exist together but I just sort of think of it as like

Whenever the goal shifts to, it's like, for example, if I make a video and my mindset during the video is I really want this to be the best video I can make versus I really want this to hit a million views. It's like, it might actually be the same video at the end of the day, but the way I've approached it when I'm thinking about my own authenticity and making video I'm proud of is so different to the way I approach it trying to get a viral video.

Well, I think in my personal opinion, if you are to make a book you're proud of, because you have to think it's not just by luck and because you're really good at numbers that you know how to make a channel grow. People also are buying into your personality. They like the way that you look at life. Like you are like quite a unique person, I think. And like just the way that you do things and everything. And it's quite like captivating. Right. So, so I can't see how you don't,

simply focusing on writing a book that you are proud of, how you don't see that that automatically follows with the bestseller. Because to me,

you doing it your way, your complete authentic way, just because of how you think. And look at the way you're doing YouTube, right? You're setting the pace and like you're setting that bar. So imagine you actually just do the book the way you want and forget the algorithms of bestsellers and whatever it may be. Because yeah, it might have worked in the past, but what if you're on the cusp of a new way and then your way is gonna be what we all follow. So I think you trusting your instinct and doing it your way

to me is an automatic New York Times. That's why I'm asking, don't you think there's one and the same? Yeah, I think hopefully one will lead to the other, but also I'm trying not to think of the hopefully. Because if you went the other way around, I don't see how that would go well because...

you might study like okay what are the 10 latest bestsellers out of what was the same and include that end up it's like reverse engineering sucking their life out of it yeah and i think those moments that you're gonna be writing two in the morning or whatever where you just can't put the laptop down and you turn your phone off chinese takeaway and you're just like i think that's gonna be like your best chapters you know what i mean yeah so um fingers crossed yeah but it's a good

question though which which way for me I think we all know which way I've got to go I do I have not looked at anything like I did not study my market and I don't know if that's a good thing I'm not sure if I'm proud of that because I also think that success is when preparation is opportunity right so hmm did I prepare the best I don't know because I really did not

look into anything. It was just, I'm writing from my heart and I hope that this resonates with someone and let's see what happens. So maybe in the next book, if I do a next book, I might try that approach and I could produce something even better or worse. Who knows? It's just different ways to approach it. What are, what are empowered life goals? Empowered life goals. So empowered life goals are essentially long-term goals that you might have, but they are

and are embedded in everything that makes you feel whole. Everything that makes you feel like you are living your true authentic life and you're truly empowered. And by that, I mean, everything you're doing is your choice or the majority of it. Some things we really can't control, but the majority of it is your choice. You wake up feeling like, okay, I'm designing my life the way that I want it to be. And it's something that...

It's within your control. It all starts with self, self-belief, self-confidence. It's all centered around you. So empowered life goals would be things that you're not making decisions based on what you think is the right thing to do. Like, oh, I've got to go be a banker or I've got to go get married at 25 because...

That's what like my grandma says, right? It is actually, I want to travel and I want to have kids when I'm 35. And that's one of my goals. Like I do want a family, but don't rush me. I want my family at this stage. Or actually I want to go and study law after medicine, right? Like you want to feel completely and totally safe

I just don't like one life on earth and you're going to have that time shaped by other people and you're living for other people. You're trying to please other people. And it's like, we don't know what happens after. That's a whole different podcast and a whole different conversation. Right. But let's just pretend for a second that we don't know. So let's just cut that thought off for now. And this is it. This is all we've got.

And it's like, there's no do over and you spent it worrying. I always think, man, if we could calculate the amount of hours we've spent worrying and doubting ourselves. And I want, if we've got that time back, I wonder what we could do different. I just wonder. But yeah, empowered life goals are just things that are entirely driven by your passion, purpose, desire.

the things that you like, the things that you enjoy and they don't always have to be purposeful. I don't, not everything that I do has a purpose to it. Okay. There are some things that I just do because I just like to do it. This is just what I just enjoy and that's okay. It doesn't always have to have like a bigger outcome or a bigger goal to it. It can just be, oh, I'm doing this because I like it. Like I'm going to take

Zumba classes there's nothing else to it apart from I just want to go and dance Zumba so empowered life goals are things that are entirely centered around the things that make you happy and yes yes life is not always happy sometimes you have to encounter hardship and different things but if you have the choice like I keep saying why would you choose Zumba

The bad things. Why? Nice. What's your pyramid method? Oh my God. So the pyramid method, and I don't know where I got this from. I don't know if I read about it or if I made it up. I'm not sure. But what I do when I'm looking at setting my goals, I visualize it as a pyramid, right? So I'm looking at it as pyramid.

what is the thing at the top for this season for this moment in my life okay i want to write a book that's what i want to do i really want to write a book and i want it to be out when i graduate don't know why it's

It's just what I wanted and that's okay. Sometimes there's no reasoning to it, but it makes sense to you. I want it to come out by the time I've graduated in 2021. Cool. So you put that at the top of your pyramid, like it's in the top square, then everything else under that pyramid, the things, the structures that make that pyramid stand up tall, proud, and it's the biggest and the baddest and the greatest, that's what's going to matter now. These are your systems. So what you slot in here is what's going to uplift that goal. So, okay, cool. So if we want to do in a year, we want to book,

and that book has to be 60,000 words. It means that we need to write 30,000 in the next six months. So then the two slots underneath are going to be 30,000, 30,000. Then either side is going to be, how am I going to make sure I get to that 30,000? Okay. So it might mean that we need to make sure this month we're writing 1000 words. And then if it's 1000 words, okay. It means that today I need to do five hours of work, whatever it may be. So it

It's a way of like breaking down things to bite-sized intricate chunks that you can see from a day-to-day perspective. Because sometimes I think when people set goals, it's so far away over there that,

it feels unattainable and it feels so out of reach and then before you know it the year's ended there's no book because it's so overwhelming that you just never start so I like to break it down to this week what does this week look like and that's the bottom of your pyramid that's right here what does this week look like in order to make sure in one year that goal is reached and that is how I approach everything almost I break it down to and also sometimes I

Your goals might not be something that's feasible for you. Not because you can't do it or because you're not good enough for it. It's actually just nearly impossible considering what else you're doing. Like you just don't have the physical time and breaking it down in that way. You can actually see, oh, it's 500 words a day. That takes three hours, right?

actually I'm at school that time I can't do it right now so maybe you'll extend your goal to write the book in two years time and now it's more manageable so the pyramid system for me is looking at the structures that I'm using and making sure that the systems can accommodate the goal because you can't have a goal that's systemless it doesn't work no that's true it doesn't work

I mean, it's okay. So one of the things that stops people, that makes people shy away from goals is fear of failure and fear of rejection. And you have a whole thing about this. What's your thing about rejection? Oh, you know how they have the love languages? Yeah. They need to add one for me about rejection and failure. I'm like... That's your love language. Oh, this is me. Like, talk to me. Listen, failure...

Failure is another chance to try again. And I really mean this when I say failure is like my fuel. Like I thrive from it because it's like, okay, now I've just gained insight into something. And I have this pebble analogy that I heard and it was so good and I just kept it. It's like being on a pebble and it's full of like a pebble beach of, you know, pebbles. I don't know what else to say, pebbles.

And someone tells you there is a hundred million, that's obviously gonna change your life. A hundred million dollar check under one of these pebbles, go. The first thing you're gonna do is turn over the pebble you're standing next to and all right, it's not there.

you're not gonna go home no you're not there's a hundred million on this beach that's yours you're gonna keep turning these bubbles over and as you're turning each of these bubbles over guess what you're gaining information about where that money isn't okay and you're gonna say okay that section over there i've checked it out it's not over there and you're just gonna now put a little method in place i've looked over here i've looked over here until you find it you're not gonna give up yeah so yeah that's just that's just what i think um yeah

Like the chapter is about this idea that rejection is redirection. What do you mean by that?

So rejections, redirection. So when you get rejected from something, you're going to still live. Like that is the reality. You're not going to die from this. Okay. When you're rejected from university, when you're rejected from your job, you're still going to be here. So now that we know you're going to be here, there needs to be a next step. And the next step is redirection. Like you're not going to stand still. You're not. That door has closed completely.

It's inevitable. Another one has to open. Now what that other one is going to be, that is going to be based on how we approach it, how we frame it. We're going to enter this as a new opportunity. It's a redirection. It's like something greater is coming.

And why do I say it's greater? Because you've just, you've just gone through an experience that's made you stronger. It's given you information. You're a different person now. Like when your next moment comes, it's redirection. Like there is nothing else to say apart from you were going to go this way and you can't now. So you're going that way and you're going to make the best of it because that's what happens. You got to live in the moment of what you're at and what you're doing. Yeah.

And if you get rejected from it, live in the moment of that and give that a full chance. So that's what I mean. Failure is another chance to try again. Is you turning that pebble over? The money's not there. Now you know where else to try. Now you know where it's not. And it's as important to know what you don't want to do or where you shouldn't be as it is to know what you want to do. And I look at it like this, right? Your ultimate happiness is like here. What?

whatever that means is here and every time that something doesn't quite go the right way or you get rejected or fail whatever you're just like ticking off you're just like literally getting closer and closer and closer and closer to finding yourself to finding what you like knowing your boundaries knowing what excites you all this stuff you're just getting closer and closer and for me that's why I celebrate leaving that job because now I know what I don't want to do it's definitely that one now let's let's go again

Yeah, that's great. That's great stuff. One of the things that we teach when I teach people how to start YouTube channels and stuff is the idea of having an accountability buddy. And I saw that you talk a lot about accountability partners as well. What is an accountability partner for you and what's there? What's the benefit? Oh, you really, really read this book. Come on.

Okay, accountability partners. Well, I call them like your empowerment circle. So accountability partners is how everyone knows it, but in our world, we call it empowerment circle. So it's having people there that,

are invested in you. They're invested in you, what you're doing, seeing your growth and seeing you succeed. So that when you might be doubting yourself or having that moment where imposter syndrome creeps in, there is another version of you, someone who's holding your ideas, who can be like, "Eh, eh, eh, eh, eh, let's not be drastic and delete the channel 'cause today you didn't get the views you wanted. Like give it a week.

let's draw come back to drawing board and go again so having an empowerment circle or an accountability partner is someone who can hold you accountable to what you said you want for yourself until you obviously are like seriously my goals have changed it's not what I wanted more fine but if it is what you want and you're having a bad moment I'm telling you now you need people around you who are invested in that because you

If you don't, you can talk yourself out of anything. I think we've all seen it. You know, you've got to wake up for the gym at 6am. You will talk yourself out of it and you will stay in bed. You know, you need to walk past that shop and just go home and cook. You will buy that food. Like we all have those moments and having an accountability partner is kind of like,

It's kind of like having a parent there before you spend your money every time and have to explain why you're doing this Amazon order. You know, like it just gives you that other layer of, let me think twice before I do that thing that might be not in my best interest. So for me, having my empowerment circle is being able to go to them and say, I really want to write a book, but I'm feeling nervous about it. And then they're like, you want to write a book?

call it this like let's let's start fleshing it out and they give me hype like they hype me up and help me see that vision bigger and also when I'm like guys I can't do it I want to quit and there were moments I wanted to quit my channel there were moments that I was like no I'm done and my sister was like no no no no remember why we started this and then like they help you like come back to that moment and I'm so grateful for that because

You were so close. When did you want to quit? Oh my gosh. How much time do we have? I wanted to quit when I was at uni because people were sometimes not kind. That is an aspect of it. Like you would assume because this is, you know, something that's so student driven and so mission driven that everyone would love it and support it. And that's not always the case. People didn't like what I was doing and, and,

don't want to use the word bullied because it's so it's such a big and loaded term but people were unkind and I was just like man I just want to be a student like I just want to be at uni and be able to go to a party and be like hi I'm V and not someone be like you're V and then already they've got a judgment or already they there there's some motive behind it that you don't know or whatever like I was starting to find that difficult and there was a time I'd walk past like

my college and walk past a room and I can hear them watching my video like laughing oh yeah and I was like this is the beginning though you have to think I started at uni so they watched it go from zero to where it is now so like I got there and I was doing it and then like have to respect it because it's what I do I was at the beginning where it's still it's still like if you say something that might trigger me I could stop it's still at the beginning stages and I almost stopped

Wow. Almost stopped. What kept you going? My sister, my mom. Accountability. They were absolutely not going to have that. And if I'd given a good reason of, I no longer enjoy it, it's causing me to feel unhappy. They'd be like, you know what? Fair enough, like the job, right? You got to go. It's time we support it. But because of other people, you still like what you're doing, but because they've laughed at you and everybody was so sorry. And that's what got me. I was like, keep the same energy.

Keep the same energy. If you're gonna be mad about it, be mad about it forever. Don't be mad about it. And I'll be the first in the comments. You go V. As if you don't know what happened last semester. It was a whole situation. I hate that. I really hate that. Like you can see someone is enjoying what they're doing and they're doing it for a reason.

For a reason that is bigger than all of us. Like we were trying to help. And they were in the, that's what keeps getting me. They were in the videos in the beginning. They were helpful talking to the students. Guys, hey guys, hey guys. Now, now you don't like it? Questionable. Do you get much hate these days?

Not to my face. I don't know what happens behind the scenes. And I definitely don't read any of these gossip, gooey things or tattle things. I don't know. I don't read them. I don't read them at all. I found out what they were when we had the sleepover at Oxbridge with all the study tube lot. I was like, what is that? Like, what are you on about tattle? What does that mean? I went on there and I said, yep, mm-mm.

My sister was like, she was like, you better stop. Cause I read it and I thought, oh, that's interesting. And I would like refresh it for a week. I was in this tattle hole. And I was like, no, no, no. Yeah. Same. I was in it for about a week as well before I realized. Yeah. And the thing is, once you start hearing it, you're like, I need to hear more. And then, and then I, I saw myself go on my channel. I was like, Hey guys,

- I wasn't, "Hey guys," because someone said I was too loud. I thought, "Wait a minute." I think I put it in the book. Like, if you're gonna change yourself based on what people say, someone's gonna say today, "Vee, you're too loud." Tomorrow they'll say, "You're talking too quiet." Someone's gonna say, "Your voice is too squeaky." Before you know it, you're on your channel being like, "Hey guys, we're gonna..." Like, you don't even know what to do anymore. No, you can't do that. Like, yeah. You just have to give yourself a chance in this world, man.

Yeah. Retweet. Um, final thing I wanted to touch on was you were like surprisingly open about talking about money.

Yeah. That's quite, yeah. Why is that shocking? Because most people aren't. And it's still like a taboo thing. And like, I'm very open to talking about money and people find that weird. I'm always a bit like baffled as to why it's so weird. Like, why is it a taboo thing to talk about money? Okay, so here's my thing about money, right? When everything on YouTube started happening, like, I was just so open with my friends and family just because it was like, oh my God,

this is crazy. We've just gone from McDonald's money, right? I was making like four pounds, 95 an hour or something like this. And then now you're like, oh my God, there's a few hundred pounds in my account. And that's shocking. Like we were all like,

what so I was just open to talk about money with my friends and family from the beginning because we just could not believe our eyes like what for one minute they're asking me giving you how much for one minute that would have been how many shifts at work for us so it was just blowing our minds then I got onto the internet and I don't know it was just weird like you couldn't really talk about it because it felt like rude but

Like it felt, it felt like, and I just didn't get it because obviously I always knew, I know what my mum makes, what my sister makes, my friends. Like it's not a secret. If you work at the KFC with me, I know what we're on. Like, whereas in this world, it is such, so in the book, I was so...

I really wanted to talk about it, but I also knew like there was still these like social limitations. Like I couldn't be like, so today, this is how much I made for this hour. So I was like, okay, I can put some distance between it. Like I can say,

when YouTube began in the first two years, this is how it was going. And that's, cause obviously that's not where we're at now, but I can say, okay, this is how it was going. And this is, these are numbers, which I still think are crazy. Right. I went from something like there was a, a, a brand that I was working with. And when I, before I had management, they were like, yeah, be like,

we've stretched our budgets and like we can give you 200 for like a minute's work. And you know, you know, that's, oh my God, I'm so grateful. Thank you so much. And I was so over the moon that I had management. And like three months later, the same brand, the money was in the thousands. Yeah.

And I was like, I haven't grown that much. Nothing has really changed here. And that made me angry because it was like, so once again, a lack of knowledge and knowing means that you're just gonna get ripped off all the time. When like, why is me having management means now you can pay times 10. Like, how does that make any sense? So yeah.

in the book I discussed like AdSense fees things like that in the first year of YouTube because I feel like okay it's fair enough it's far

far enough away yeah yeah it's far enough away but also it's still mind-boggling like even when my friends because obviously i mean now with friends and family everybody it's just like okay they know they get it so now they they still have those prices in their mind as well because it's i just don't talk to them about it anymore now because it's i don't know there's just no point anymore we get it they know we're amazed by it it's done whatever so when they read that they're still like whoa

So I was like, okay, this is still something good to share because it still shows you how drastic the jump is. And I just couldn't believe it. Like I'm a university student making thousands from being on the internet. So what were the figures from years one and two? So years one and two, I think there was a video that I did on YouTube and it got like

2,000 pounds or something in that month because I think it just did really well. And if the brand managements were getting management deals for like 4,000 here, 5,000 here, and I was like... The first year? Bloody hell, that's pretty good. No, seriously. Because in that first year is when I was blowing up, right? So they managed me when I had like...

I think they came to and had 15,000 subscribers or something. And then within four months we were like, we hit 20, 30, 40, 50k. So in that time, I guess when they're pitching, they were like, she's gaining 10,000 subscribers every month or every week. You better do it now. Well, you know what I mean? So they were getting amazing deals. And I was like,

what in the world i literally went from my mcdonald's paycheck to this there was no there was no gradual to it whatsoever and that blew my mind what's that like how does that change change your perspective if at all the good thing is like i keep saying the friends and family at home

nothing has really changed in their world. So it's still the same. So we still have those conversations and I'll still do budgeting talks with them. And like, I can't be like, well, it's only a hundred. It's like, no, it's not only a hundred. That was how many hours work for you. I still need to be in tune with that.

But also I can't be on the internet like, guys, I've got to get pot noodle today because I don't have to. Let's be realistic here. Like I hate when people pretend when you know, you know you're in a better situation. Like you don't need to talk about pot noodle right now. You know if you really wanted to get takeaway, you could order it and that wouldn't do anything for you. So I...

It was tricky, but my audience are amazing. Like whenever, especially Disney, right? Like I work with Disney a lot, which I mean, we know Disney's got deep pockets, right? And my audience know that. And whenever I post like a Disney ad, they do the best. Like you could get 500 comments on a Disney ad. Because they're like supporting like, oh my God, well done, you got the- Yeah, yeah, yeah. They're like, get more. Yeah. They love it. That's like-

Pretty unusual. Like most audiences will be like, oh, you're a sellout. No, no, no. Like, hell yeah. Do more of this stuff. Yeah. They're like, you deserve this. Like, absolutely. You've been doing this. You've been working hard. And I think they know the journey as well. Yeah. This is new. I'm the first in my family to be seeing this kind of money. Right. I used to think my mom was like, I said, oh my God, let mom give me 20 pounds. And now I'm like,

oh my gosh I could make my mom's salary in under a few months like that blows my mind right so now I know there is a responsibility that comes with that like I will always help my family when I can they and they don't they don't um I don't know what the right word is they don't

What's the word? It's not abuse. Expect. No, like they don't exploit that. They don't like, they wouldn't be like, okay, now that you're making some money, you've got to take care of everything. No, like it takes a lot for me to be like, mom, let me take you winter coat shopping. She will still be like, shall we just go to Primark? And like, let's find one in the sale. I'm like, mommy, whichever one. Yeah, exactly. I'm like, it's like, I've got this. Or if I say to meet me in town when I'm going home, she'll literally be like, I'm going to get the bus. I'm like, okay.

can I just order an Uber? But Uber's expensive at 20 pounds. I'm like, mom, it's okay. Like she's still in that space. So I don't think there'd ever come a time where I could lose touch of it because it's always around me. But yeah, I'm lucky that my audience are so supportive of it. They don't skip ads. They love when a video is sponsored. Like they do well. My videos, like I've never had an issue with

branded content or my audience being like what are you doing and because everything is all like 16th is amazing my management they never bring me anything that's not aligned so if I do a deal it's always something where my audience get something out of it and

And they obviously never have to pay for anything that I'm doing. So for them, it's like, wait, she's got a brand deal and all we have to do is view it and like it. Like that's literally all we have to do. And we still get to consume her content for free online. We still get to come to events for free. Like all the empowered, empowered will never be monetized or charged thing. Yeah.

So for them, it's like, what's the comment? And to be honest with you, that is logical. Like I don't get when people get hate for ads. I guess maybe for the audience, like you've grown our community and now you've just stopped what we're doing just for you to be doing ads and just use the numbers for that. Maybe that's where they get annoyed. Whereas for me, I'm like, if this ad is not, if it's not feeding in,

Does that make sense? For example, I'll work with people like the civil service. And in the ad, we will have a link that people can go and apply for like help on getting onto the fast stream, for example. So I've definitely made money from working with the civil service, but my audience have been exposed to this thing. And then they also get a link. Like nothing is ever unaligned, inaligned, whatever the word is. Yeah. Yeah.

Do you find that as you make more money, your goalposts for what a good amount of money is shift? No. Because as long as I have enough for what I need, then it's fine. Do you know what I mean? So you aren't thinking in terms of like, oh, you know, the channel's making X amount of revenue this year and kind of next year, it kind of would be cool to like, I don't know, 2X, 3X, that kind of stuff. I feel like by now, you know. Yeah. That there is, number one, I don't have a team, right? So like, I mean, I think what you're doing here is so cool. I think I texted you about it. Like I...

in 2022 will definitely be trying to start thinking that way. But currently it is just me. Yes, my management is there, but their job is solely to go and get brand deals. And my job is to keep the channel alive so that brand deals can go onto something, right? But there's no team that's like, let's analyze sales.

stats or these are our financial goals because there are people to feed right like you have a team people who are relying on making a salary here so like you need this it's a whole operation whereas this is just me just me and my ideas there's no one else so there's never been a deep dive into this is the channels like forever no she's like oh this month i'm like yay yeah that's a good number yeah that's pretty because my rent's paid up front i paid my rent up front yeah my rent's paid up front

What do you do with the cash? What do you mean? Like, do you invest in stuff? Okay. So you see my friend, he's really great for this. He was like, V, you can't just have money sitting in the bank. Like you need to do something with it. So I've gone on to this thing called, I've just changed the name to circa 500 or something.

Do you know it used to be called TIKR? T-I-K-R? Okay. Something like this. It's really great. It's all about like being able to invest into causes that help the world. So it's really nice. So you can choose which kind of investing you want to do. And I've chosen people and environment. So every month takes a few hundred out and it goes in there and it's nice. But that's as far as I'm going. And most of my investment is my education, right? Like Harvard, I paid for myself. Scholarship!

But that was really cool that I could even do that. It was like, okay, we didn't get the scholarship, I guess. We've got to go withdraw 27 grand and just pay for this upfront. And that's a really nice thing to do. And like the PhD, I'm not super stressed about, oh my God, got to get a scholarship. If I get it, great. If I don't, I guess we're going to pay for it. Disney, Disney. So yeah, for me now, it's my investments, I guess, are in things like my education, the apartment, which is amazing.

It's a really nice apartment. It's really great. But for me, I'm like, why? I can live there. So why would I not? So things like experiences, traveling, but also this...

investing in there and as 2022 comes financial literacy is what's on my agenda and now sitting down and talking with my accountant talking maybe getting a financial advisor and just chatting about okay you can't just keep pretending that this is just la-di-da it's just happening by chance like it's happening let's track let's invest let's let's be more financially wise here and also start to be business minded as I shift into like

my adulthood i suppose so yeah i think that that would be a really interesting strand of content on your channel like documenting the journey of you learning about financial literacy exactly and it's going to be from scratch and it's just going to be it's like a just a genuine journey of okay guys i know how to accept that as much as i love what i'm doing

It also comes with this side of things that brands are going to want to work with you because they also love what you stand for. And my audience understands it. And I love that because it'd be so hard for them to be like, but you're supposed to be doing this because you care. So how is this? Is there an ad in the middle? Yeah.

It's like, does that take away from the fact that the content that you still got after that one minute was still helpful? No. And they really, really get that. And I'm lucky, really lucky because I know it can be different. Audiences can be quite touchy about that. Not mine.

I have a few kind of rapid fire questions to end with, if that's all right. Oh, that's nerve wracking. I mean, the questions are rapid, the answers don't have to be. So what advice would you give to your younger self? That's the question I ask everybody. What advice would I give to my younger self? I always say this, but I don't know if it's so true because would everything that happened now happen? I don't know. But to my younger self, I'd have told myself,

To start being more audacious sooner. Oh, what do you mean? Like right now, there's no goal that's out of my reach. There's nothing that I would say...

maybe don't maybe don't think about that like oh I really want to do PhD like don't think Stanford no that's not gonna work or you want to do a speech don't think the UN like no there's nothing that is too big and I feel like there was a time when I was younger even though my mum was supportive like I keep saying she said lead and I'll follow so if I didn't choose something that was really really high then it wasn't gonna happen right so I wish that I had started to

see myself as I do now a lot younger especially when I was trying to like unlearn all of this you're an orphan stuff which doesn't even make sense like number one I don't know why Zimbabwean culture does that but if you lose a father then you are an orphan but it's like that doesn't make sense because you still have a mom but it becomes with all that like gender inequality stuff that they don't view the mom is significant enough that your status changes based on your father so I wish that I'd unlearned that

what I'd inherited from that orphan, like that's what you are and they treat you that way and being so nervous and like never really like speaking up, da, da, da. Wish I'd unlearned that sooner. But also, you know. That's life. Yeah. Who's had the biggest influence in your career, would you say? God,

Gosh, I don't know. I guess I would say really, really powerful women like Oprah Winfrey or Michelle Obama's, you know, people like that, I think really inspire me because they've made names for themselves based on themselves. And even though someone could argue, but Michelle, her husband was the president. It's like, yeah, he was. But have you ever heard her refer to his Barack Obama's wife? Hmm.

Like you don't really ever hear that. No, she's her own. Exactly. It's Michelle Obama. And it's like, oh yeah, she's married to Barack, but it's never, oh, his wife. And I really liked that. I like when women, obviously Malala, like, I mean, you know, she's just amazing. I think watching her as my friend is, is like, I get a front row seat at the world's greatest show. She just navigates everything with such grace and,

She's so powerful and assertive and does it in such a way that's just so, it's just so good. And she never has to raise her voice. She never has to do all of these traditionally, um,

traditionally masculine things that a lot of women tend to have to do to be seen or heard. She's just her and you will listen. Like that room will go quiet for her. And I love that. So I think in my career, people like that have definitely influenced me a lot to just be my authentic self and exist within my story.

And find power in that and not feel like, oh my God, I have to go and make a gimmick out of this or have to go and jazz it up for it to be special. It's like, no, this is what happened. I can't go back and undo it. So what I'm going to do is celebrate it and you're going to hear about it. What's one tip for someone looking for success? Oh gosh. I guess I would say, understand what success looks like for you.

Because the moment that you think it's this formula or it looks this way, you're never going to reach it because you're aspiring for someone else's version of something. And even when you get there, you will find that you won't be happy. Okay, the goalposts will keep on moving and keep on changing. So the number one thing that has to be at the forefront of everything is what is your version of success? Your version of success could be going to school, finishing uni, college.

And then getting married, having children and then being a stay at home mom. That could be your absolute aspiration. And then that's what you want to do. And that's okay. And when you've reached it, you could be like, I've got my three children and I feel successful. And for someone else, that could be their worst nightmare. They could be like, I want to travel the world, build an empire, be a CEO, own the company, whatever it may be. And that's their version. So figuring out what it is for you is a first step.

And then you go out and you start to do it. You start to ask for help. Get on LinkedIn if you have to. Type in the job title you're aspiring to do. Ask that person for a coffee or go to your teacher. Do you know anybody? Now you start the grafting. But the first step is figuring out what makes you happy. Not what you think is supposed to make you happy because that's a whole different thing.

but what actually makes you happy. And sometimes you could think that's what it is, you could get there and it's not. It's okay, we pivot, we maneuver, we adjust, we keep going. - What's your definition of success?

My definition of success is for me to be working with other change makers in a space where I feel valued, seen, where my ideas and my opinions are contributing to something. And we are working on this mission for girls' education. That is just...

On my travels when I was in Zimbabwe and I was talking to girls in the orphanages or visiting the schools and they were just telling me like, I just want to learn. Like, I don't want to get married and I know that's what's coming next month. Like, just seeing it live in the flesh and knowing that could have been me. I think that is...

That is what drives me the most is knowing if my mom hadn't been as brave and strong as she is, managing to leave the UK to come here to do what she did to set up and get us over here, I would have been the girls I'm talking to. So for me, it's like, nah, I just, I want to work in that. And for me, success would be seeing that number decrease. 130 million girls out of school.

130 million that is massive so being able to know that that number's decreasing and that we're creating generational change yeah that would be success for me what is the first and last hour of your day normally look like oh my gosh the first hour

That's in the morning. That's my favorite time. Honestly, I love it. I play music, have really nice, happy music, you know, like Soul Sister. Hey, Soul Sister. That kind of stuff. I'll just be singing. I'm sure my neighbors must think, what is going on in there? I'll wake up, shower, have music blasting the whole time, drink some water, have porridge, do my hair, do some makeup, put on a cute outfit, and then...

Go to my office. Going to my office in the next room. And then I open the laptop and I emails admin. It's always my first thing. Respond to the things that need urgent response. Then after that, it's...

Tackle the rest of the day. Nice. As it comes. And the last hour? What does that look like? The last hour, I always, to be honest with you, I end it talking to my sister. Like my mum and my sister, we love a good group chat call. We have a chat about how our day looked. I might read and then bed. Nice. That is it. Or sometimes I'll watch something which is always dangerous because if I watch something...

I'm just gonna like fall asleep it's gonna keep playing I don't sleep great so I try to keep my phone away from me because that I think I learned that from you I think I watched a video where you had your phone like charging somewhere else yeah actual alarm clock game changer yeah yeah which is crazy because I was like I need an alarm it's like oh buy an alarm clock but I watched one of your videos and I was like let me try this and I slept so

so great like when my phone is away from me i sleep so well but yeah that's what the last hour it could be a bad hour and i'm watching something and i fall asleep to that or switch the family read a book then go to bed

Um, what physical item? So this is something that's like maybe less than a hundred pounds. Um, do you think it's like really underrated or the, what physical item couldn't you live without? I think my tripod. Oh, okay. Yeah. But that's because of the line of work that I'm in. Right. My tripod enables me to have freedom. Like I can just go anywhere and I can do it because I like to capture what I'm doing. I really enjoyed that. Some people find that strange to like live your life documenting it, but yeah.

I like it and I also love doing it so my tripod means that I don't have to have people with me all the time yeah I just have the clicker the tripod I can put my camera on there or my phone on there it's the same height as me I can twist it turn it I go on holiday on my own my entire photography is myself like all that kind of stuff whereas before if I didn't have it I'd always have to think someone come out for dinner with me someone come to shopping with me because I can twirl and

I don't have embarrassment. I set up the tripod. I do my twirling. I do what I want to do. Like nothing really phases me. So my tripod gives me that freedom to be able to do those kinds of things without having to think.

companionship all the time yeah it's nice yeah i enjoy being alone so it allows me to be alone it's very nice tripod is that one yeah it's like ridiculously portable does that like extend as high as you yeah not not not exactly but it's like about eye level and i have a few of them at home because sometimes it's annoying to like twist and turn so i have that one for the camera i have one for my phone and and then i buy everyone this tripod yeah like it's a gift that i give everybody and they love it like they're always like that's the best thing you gave me

Literally that. I need to check out that tripod. Oh yeah, it's really great. I've been missing one of these things in my life. And I've had this one for like now I think two years maybe and it hasn't never broken. So my tripod and that costs like 20 pounds but it allows me to be able to do things on my own. What book other than yours would you recommend to everyone? That is a really good question. Now are we talking about recommend to everyone because it's an enjoyable read or because it's helpful? Let's go both.

Okay. So like one for each. So something that I think is really, really helpful is a book by a person called We Should All Be Feminists.

I don't want to say who she is, she's so controversial right now, but like the book is still great. Chimamanda, Chimamanda Adichie Ngozi. People are a bit annoyed at her right now, but that's a different story. But the book is really great. We should all be feminists. Yes, we should all be feminists. It's tiny. It's like this little book. That one and The Feminist Manifesto, both by her. Tiny little books. You could read it in two hours for that.

Oh, it's so good. She's writing a letter to her friend about how to raise her baby girl. And she's like, please don't put these expectations. Please don't use this language. Please just let them. And it just talks about why feminism is important and how it's not something that's like radical that everyone just thinks about. And it's not this bad thing. You're just literally asking for everything.

and equality, right? Like it's, it's just great. So that one for being helpful for, I think everybody should read it. And then just a book that I enjoyed, Educated. Oh yeah. By Tara. I think that book had me on edge. There were some moments in the book I was like, that really happened? The skin was peeling and I'm like, oh, the moments I'm like, no, I'm crying. Like it had me in all the feels and it's Michelle Obama's favorite book too. Yeah.

I mean, the next question. Oh, well, actually, I'm curious. If you lost everything, so all the money's gone, all the followers are gone, et cetera. How would you rebuild? Would I rebuild? Would you rebuild? Yeah, I guess that's the first question. That's the question. Because I suppose if,

if it's all lost, right? It means that there's another chance to try again now. It's another chance to reinvent. So if I had to rebuild it, I guess you would just relaunch your channel and like say, guys, we're back and then try again. But I think maybe I would go down a new route. Like maybe I would think about instead of being on camera, maybe I'll write instead. So I'll now go to Zimbabwe and work with CamFed and then maybe write articles about what I'm seeing.

or maybe I go down there and I now help run the organization, right? I think I'd still be making impact, but maybe in a different way. I don't know if I would do it on the internet necessarily. Now it's like I'm in the flow of things that is happening, but I don't see myself on the internet forever. I don't see it being here for me beyond five years now.

So in three years, if this PhD goes ahead, like I definitely love documenting when I'm studying and I love speaking to the student community. But like once I am done, I don't know if I, I don't think I would enjoy it anymore. That's the honest truth. So I see myself that there's like a three year to five maximum lifetime on this. And then I might tap out. And yeah, like I definitely don't see it in my life.

post-study world with me. Like I definitely don't. It's not something that I want to do and it's not something that I'm going to do.

But yeah, so if I had to rebuild, I think I'd be really happy actually. Because it's like, oh, what can you do? Shut down, what's going to happen? Yeah, I would just, and it would just be like a new existence. Like it's just a new world. Like you would now live within your means. Like if the YouTube money stops, it's like you just adjust, you downsize on the apartment, you move to a city that's cheaper and you figure out a way of living that suits what you're doing. And now you're not on the internet. Like it's not even like,

you have any any any requirements or like right now it's like i need the office right like yes i could technically just be at home but like the you know you need to put all your lights up and the family's sleeping at certain times you're hi guys and there's a lot you know i need my own space i need the office i need to do that whereas when you're no longer in that world yeah your work is at is over there like you go home just to sleep we don't need all of this what we've got right now right so

I would just start a new route, to be honest. I think I'd be happy.

um what quote or mantra do you live by oh that is that is really good there's three that already come to mind the top one is that you're deserving of everything you want in the world right that one i believe to myself i tell myself this every day because now there's nothing unless i'm just not qualified for it like you're not going to put me in the surgeon's chair because i'm gonna someone's gonna die i'm not going to be able to save the life right but

If I were to go to medical school and I was a qualified doctor, but in my field, in my lane, there's like, why? There's nothing that is too, but if I'm human, I'm here and some other human can do it too. So can I. Then the other one is definitely my rejection one. Like the whole idea of rejection is redirection. Failure is another chance to try again. It means that life changes.

It never stops. You still have a chance. Every day you wake up, you get to start fresh. It's never like, oh, it's too late. You're never too old to that degree. 45, okay. You can still hear, you can still go in and take information and write notes. You can go to school. And finally, journey or destination?

of course it's the journey it's gotta be done of course it's the journey destination's the bonus yeah journey's the beauty of it the journey is the fun part the journey is where it's at because that is where you learn where you grow and where you get to create and exist and then the destination's like ah we got here and even when you get to destination you're still on the journey and that that's the tea V thank you so much this has been a joy oh my god

I think this is the longest interview we've ever done. No way. We've been talking for over two and a half hours. That is impossible. I just want to say, yeah, thank you so much. It's been a real joy. Like, I think the passion that you exude is just so infectious. And it's like experiencing it in real life. It's like on another level compared to like on YouTube or Instagram stories. So, yeah, I just think it's been fantastic. And I've taken a lot of like...

- Yeah, life lessons away from it. And I guess you aren't really trying to be a guru as such, but like, I think you're just like accidentally just like ridiculously inspiring. So I'm sure everyone who watched/listened will get a lot of value from it. Guys, check the book out, link in all the things.

And yeah. It's going to be everywhere in stores. It's going to be good. Like go and look for it. WH Smith, Waterstones. I don't know how to say the word. Foils? Follies? Foils? Never heard of it. Yeah, it's a bookshop. It's a bookshop. Okay, cool. I don't have to say it's one of the pretty big ones out there, but it's going to be in there as well. Nice. Wherever. And I just hope that people who read it just...

find it motivational and practically helpful and that when you finish reading it, put a smile on your face. That's all I want. Sure it will. And I can't wait to do a proper video about it. Lots of really useful lessons that I think can be turned into a nice little lesson.

nice little video um yeah thanks and uh guys thanks for listening and hit the subscribe button and check out v all links in the video description and we'll catch you later right that's it for this week's episode of deep dive thank you so much for watching check out v's book it's genuinely very good it's a work of art links to

to V's socials and her book and all the things in the video description and the show notes. And wherever you're watching this, please do check the link in the video description and the show notes. That will be a link to Apple Podcasts to leave a review for the podcast. If you'd like this episode, I'd love for you to leave a review because it genuinely does help more people discover the podcast. Anyway, thank you so much for listening. Have a great day and I'll see you in the next episode. Bye-bye.