E2 The Real Meaning Of Productivity | Unjaded Jade
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Hello and welcome to Deep Dive, the podcast that delves into the minds of entrepreneurs, creators and other inspiring people to uncover their journeys towards finding joy and fulfillment at work and in life. My name is Ali and in each episode I chat to my guests about the philosophies, strategies and tools that have helped them along the path to living a life of happiness and meaning. This week I chatted to YouTuber, content creator and now best-selling author Jade. In the episode we have a very productive conversation about finding balance within hustle culture, motivation, book

book writing, reshaping the definition of career, the law of attraction, opinions around toxic productivity, and much, much more. You know, we love a side hustle. It's great, but not at the detriment of killing yourself in the process. You'll leave this episode with techniques for living with intention, including Jade's hashtag casual magic mantra, a ton of study techniques and productivity hacks, and a little more perspective about what it really means to live a productive and meaningful life and career.

Jade, how are you doing? Welcome to the podcast. I'm doing good. Thank you for having me. This is so strange because I have seen this setup for years and now here I am. Here we are. Yeah. Last time we spoke was about a year ago. Yeah. Maybe more than a year ago.

on like a live stream. And so this is the first time we're meeting in the flesh. I know, you in 3D. Me in 3D, yeah. And you've been kind of jet setting all around the world, like Korea and San Francisco and Berlin and stuff. And now you're in the UK for a few weeks. Yeah. We found time to do this thing. How has all the traveling been?

Oh, gosh. Yeah. So I studied in South Korea last semester, which was amazing. Like, just so culturally different. But it was so nice being able to experience with all my uni friends as well. Awesome. I feel like some people watching this or listening to this might not know who you are. So I wonder if we do a quick kind of dive into your backstory. And then we'll come along to talking about this bad boy.

The book, it's such a pretty book. It's like so nice. It's like so well done. But we'll gush about the book in a moment. How would you describe what you do if someone asks you like, you're at a party or something and someone's like, "So what do you do?" How do you answer that question? - Oh God, that's a tough question. - It's a tough question, yeah. - I say, so I make videos. Just short answer, long answer. So I guess I started in a space of YouTube called StudyTube. I feel like most of you are very familiar with StudyTube and the productivity space.

Yeah, and kind of talking about my journey of GCSEs and A-levels, things that helped me, study tips, productivity advice, all of that good stuff. And then I took a gap year and I've logged my travels and my journey there. And I think especially as someone who

was always, you know, very into academics. It was a big leap out of my comfort zone in my gap year. So it was cool taking people along that journey. And now that I'm at university, I make study content about that, but it also follows just my life and living with intention and yeah.

trying to inspire people to love themselves, go out of their comfort zone, that kind of thing. That's a pretty good pitch. Trying to inspire people to love themselves, get outside their comfort zone. Has it always been that?

Like since you started the channel or has that sort of the thing that you're trying to inspire people to do, has that evolved over time? Yeah, I think when I first started just in the study space, it was a lot more niche. The goal was, you know, just trying to help people feel less stressed about school. So whether that was equipping them with more tools, you know, study techniques, trying to reduce the stress that you feel when you've got an exam coming up.

But over time, it's definitely evolved to be more holistic about you as a human, as deep as that sounds. Like I like to talk about things like loneliness and all these struggles that we find or perfectionism, fear of failure. Yeah. And I guess school is one element of that. But now it's more holistic. How do you decide what you want to talk about?

Okay, so I have like a brain dump place on my Notion. I love Notion. Same. So good. And I have it on my phone, I have it on my laptop. And whenever I have a random idea or I've read a book or listened to a podcast that just sparks something, I'll just drop it there. And then...

I kind of, I think similar to you, I have a Camber board and I sort of drag ideas that are like, okay, this is like an actual idea. And whenever I have a dull moment, I sit and sort of script it out. And then when I come to film, I sort of just select from these scripts I've already got. How do you think about this balance between will this video perform well on the stats versus is this a video that I want to make personally? It's a tough one. Cause I think as you start to do YouTube, you definitely know what will do better and worse.

I start to think about value and impact in less just a numerical sense, but also thinking, okay, this might be a really niche topic, but if you watch this and you got a lot of value from it, like that should mean more to me than just, you know, like 200k views. So it's kind of this balance between what I really like making, what I think will create the most impact, but not necessarily be the most

like widely reaching and then a few videos which get some new people in I guess that's a pretty good way of looking about looking at it I've kind of been thinking similarly as well like we were having a content planning brainstorming session this morning and there were a couple of videos where I was like I know the video is not going to do well but I know it's like a good video to make and it's the sort of video that I want to make because it's like the right the right sort of impact so it's cool that you're also thinking in those terms because I feel like we've both been doing YouTube for like four and a bit years now yes um and so

And so I feel like for me, definitely at the start, it was a, I just need to get videos out. And this is for sure. Yeah. And like almost make a name for yourself too. Like views that seem the most important. No, exactly. And then I think for me about a year or two, I was like, oh, I became like numbers focused, thinking about the algorithm a lot. And now I'm kind of like in a stage where I'm trying not to think about the algorithm as much as possible.

Yeah. No, I think you've got a good thing going too, because you post so much content that like the perfectionism about it changes, right? You're just like, just post, you know? It's got to be done. Yeah. And especially if you're posting like three videos, then not all three of those videos needs to go viral, right? So then it allows you to play around more and just do stuff that makes you happy. But yeah. So your strategy for YouTube in the early days is quite interesting. And I often use you as an example when I'm speaking to other

other kind of like want to be youtubers where one approach to youtube is just like make a load of stuff and you'll be really bad initially and you'll get good over your first 100 videos and then you can start thinking about what to make stuff about but when we last spoke you said that your approach was a little bit different can you can you tell us a little bit about what was your approach to youtube back in the day in 2017 yes um

Okay, so I think I had this thing in my head similar to being a study person was I need to study YouTube a bit before I just dive right in. And so I chose this arbitrary date in the future. It was two months down the line, February 17th, I still remember. And between now and February 17th, I am going to teach myself how to edit. I'm going to learn a little bit about SEO optimization, all these things I knew nothing about. I'm going to go on YouTube on the creator side and do some learning there. Yeah.

And I feel like that gave me a lot of confidence in not only the kind of content I wanted to make, but also felt like, okay, cool. Like I can make videos that hopefully someone will want to watch. And obviously you do learn a lot through the journey, but my approach was sort of work that out beforehand. Yeah. And how did that go in the early days?

quite well. I think I got quite lucky though, because I found this niche of YouTube where like people clearly wanted it, but it wasn't really a thing yet. So my first few videos, obviously they got like 50 views, like literally nothing. But I was already getting comments from people saying that there was about like value here. And that was something that made me know I was on the right track. And then in April of that year, I went from 400 subscribers to 10,000 in a week.

which is very rare. And it was like my embarrassing little channel that I had suddenly became like, oh, wow, it's like she actually has a channel now. So from 400 subscribers to 10,000 in a week. Yeah. And what did that feel like?

Oh my God, it was insane because I was on the Easter holidays and I was in year 12. So, you know, I go on to the Easter holidays and I'd have an embarrassing channel and then I come back and all of a sudden people just know about it, my embarrassing channel. And I had a chemist, my chemistry teacher came up to me and she was like, we've all watched your videos in the staff room. That was like a very real moment for me. Being like, wow, like, God, people are seeing me in my bedroom at home, like even my teachers are.

Yeah, it was very weird, like hard to process, for sure. And did you have any sort of background in video stuff or was it like completely self-taught? No, completely self-taught. That's the beauty of YouTube is you can learn from YouTube. Yeah. The thing about embarrassing channel, like how did you... Because...

even today it's kind of cringy having a youtube channel especially in the early days yeah yeah because we idolize youtube no exactly yeah and like i've spoken to so many people who spend a lot of time on tiktok and if i if i've asked them have you thought about creating a tiktok oh gosh i could never do that and what and if i dig down it's often embarrassment and cringe are the two words that that come up but you refer to your channel as like your embarrassing channel but you but you did it anyway so like how were you thinking about like the embarrassment cringe factor of having a youtube channel early on okay so i have a theory that

That if you hide it, it gives people a reason to make fun of it. Because it's like, if you're trying to hide it, then clearly there's something embarrassing about it.

So I did the opposite. I remember I put on my Instagram page, which was just full of like friends and family. Oh, hey guys, I'm starting this YouTube channel and I'm really proud of it. And that sort of means people can't touch it now because I'm claiming that I'm proud of it. Yes. And it would be mean for them to then be like, exactly. Yep. And so I think the more that you can own it, even if secretly you feel embarrassed, the less people can say anything negative about it.

Okay, so you just pretend like you're totally cool with it and like hashtag blessed and hashtag proud and all that kind of stuff. Yeah, hashtag fake until you make it. Amazing. Did you get much kind of hate back in the day? Oh my God, do you know what my first ever piece of hate was? It sounds so stupid now that I say it. So someone said that I look like a horse.

I was going to end differently. Like, oh, like you have such a horse face, which would have been fine, right? Like receiving that once. But then they started commenting on every single video, like, oh, hey, horse face. Like, oh, your nose just looks like a horse. And it actually really got to me. And I remember I would like look at myself in the mirror and be like, do I look like a horse? Yeah.

Yeah, so I think when you're not accustomed to receiving online hate, it's like anything mildly negative is really new and weird.

But yeah, I think over time you numb yourself to it a little bit. Yeah, so it's four years on now, your channel is like absolutely enormous and like ridiculously successful by any sort of reasonable metrics. How do you think about the hate aspect of it these days? Like, do you get much hate these days? I think it like fluctuates. Yeah. But of course it's always going to be there. It's been there since the start. Less horse face comments now. Okay, yeah.

Yeah. I think part of it is like just thinking about all the positive people that you're impacting and trying to like remember in those moments where you get, you know, 10 comments, which are hateful that you have a thousand of people who, whose life you change, whose day you change, who you made smile or any, any of these moments,

yeah, like that stuff is more important. But then the brain just, I don't know, it's not great, is it? Because it's so funny, you can get 1000 of those comments, and you don't remember them, like you do that one bad one. So I think it depends on my own mental state. Like if I'm really stressed at uni, or other things are going on a bad in my life, I find it affects me a lot more. Whereas if I'm in a really good state, then it's like, well,

shut up yeah I know what you mean it's it's kind of the same for me I think if the first few years I like I didn't really get many hate comments at all and when I would it was just kind of be funny but recently there have been like quite a few like very specifically targeted ones where I sort of feel like it is starting to affect me and it

And it is often related to what else is going on in life. Yeah, for sure. Do you tend to reply to them or block them or leave it? What's your strategy? I would never reply to them. Like occasionally I would like heart them and stick them on my Instagram story. Oh yeah, that's quite funny actually. If they're funny. But the ones that are like really sort of close to the bone, I tend to just kind of look at it and then I'll ignore it. I was speaking to a few other YouTuber friends who get far more hate comments on like tech videos and things.

And they just delete them and like hide the user from their channel. So like they can still, the user can still comment and still sees their own comments, but no one else sees their comments. Yeah. Um, and I like initially I thought that that's a bit of a weird strategy. Like why wouldn't you want the hate comments on the videos? But then these guys were saying that like, like 99.99% of the comments are really nice. Hmm.

And most people will scroll down the comments and see what's going on. And like, even if someone wasn't thinking something negative about a video, if they see a negative comment about you or about the video, it will color their impression of you and the channel and stuff. It's like giving someone a new lens to see you through. And so like their strategy is like, yeah, if you notice anything negative, just like delete it. And I've been doing that recently. And it's like, whoa. Is it freeing? It's freeing. It's like, I can't just delete this comment and then I don't have to worry about it anymore. That's true.

That's so cool. It's like you're taking the power back. This is my comment section. Yeah, I can do what I want. Yeah, you can do what you want. That's awesome. So we're four years in and while at university, while doing YouTube, you found the time to write and publish a book. Yes. How did this start?

Yeah, okay. God, should we go back to the beginning? Let's go back to the beginning. Was it August 2020? Yes, although before that, I'd always wanted to write a book in this space. Actually, the first job I ever wanted to have was to be an author, but of fiction. So I've always loved writing. I wrote Wattpad fan fiction. Oh, hello. I was that person. Link in the video description. No, thank you. Oh my God, it's so tragic. I read it back the other day. It's embarrassing. What were you writing fan fiction about?

If I say it, I know people are going to go find it. But...

But it was a cross between the Divergent and the Hunger Games. Okay, nice. Yeah, but with like more saucy elements. Okay. No, I'm kidding. Same characters? Yeah, no, some. It was like a follow on. It was like the kids of some of the characters. Oh, interesting. And I guess there was some kind of love story in there somewhere. Of course, you've got to have some romance. I had no romance in my life at like 14. So it's just like, I would live it through my fan fiction. And, you know, I'd name all the characters after my friends in real life. Okay.

And then this is just like the most indirect, non-controversial way of dealing with friendships. But if something was going wrong in a relationship in real life, I could just kill off a character with that name. - So were you writing like a series of fan fiction? - No, it was just one really long fan fiction of like 100,000 words. - Bloody hell. - Yeah. - Wow, okay. - It was like every morning before school, I would just write another chapter for all my fans.

And people were reading this stuff when you were 14? Yeah. How does that work? I have zero experience with the Wattpad side of the world at all. You missed out. Yeah. No, Wattpad is amazing. Okay. Yeah. So it's, it's, God, it's kind of like a social media of books. Okay. So you, you decide to,

create a story and then you like publish a chapter and then you can just keep publishing them and people can follow along the story and be like oh hey like waiting for the next chapter wow this chapter was amazing and then you can say oh every saturday at 10 a.m i'm going to upload the next chapter oh yeah and then you can kind of comment and also influence the story i guess because the author is going to continually write it yeah while reading comments and is this what path stuff still going on is it still a thing oh wow it's alive and thriving i need to check the website out this sounds great

Okay, so you started with a saucy crossover fanfiction at the age of 14. Yeah. And now we've got the only study guide you'll ever need. No sauce, I'm sorry.

Yes. Okay, so when I had the whole YouTube success, I guess you could call it, in StudyTube, I was like, okay, cool, wow, people are clearly interested in this. And I know that I would have loved a book like this that discussed not just...

really good study tips of how to succeed, but also the more holistic elements of being a student. So all the perfectionism, fear of failure, discussion that I loved talking about on YouTube. And I realized that in my gap year, naturally as my life would go on, I wouldn't be talking about this stuff all the time. So I really wanted an evergreen medium where I could dig into it with all the meat that you can't always get into in a YouTube video. And it could live on beyond me.

something where you don't have to go and watch all these bite-sized videos. You can just, like everything I've ever said online pretty much is in here and more. Okay. So you started with a fan fiction, then you decided you wanted to write the book. How did the sort of...

How did the book actually end up manifesting itself? Yes. So in my gap year, I started writing random passages of this potential book idea I had in my mind. But I never really committed to making it an actual thing. It was just an idea I had. I remember writing in my journal, like, I'd love to write a book on this.

But sort of, you know, I went to university, life takes over, I have to write all these essays, too stressful, I'm not going to write a book. And then last summer during lockdown, I was approached by a publisher and they were pitching a book almost exactly like the one I'd written down in my journal in my gap year. And it just felt like, I don't know, it just felt like a synchronicity, this moment of if I don't write this now, I'm probably never going to write it. And I know that I would have wanted to read something like this.

So I said yes, knowing that it was going to be incredibly stressful to write this during my university semester because the aim was to have it to be published in August of this year. So you got the... So you got it basically like 12 months ago-ish, the publisher approached you and you just bashed it out in that time. That's pretty incredible because... So for a bit of context, around the same time, a publisher approached me to write a book and I'm still...

dabbling with the proposal and like it's going to be due to be released in like two years from now and I feel like such an absolute waste man no we need to dig into this tell me about your proposal your fears about it because I feel like the book for you I remember watching your video where it

You know, you sort of gave up on the book. And it was exactly the time that I was like crying over how much I was struggling to write my own book. And I felt so validated in your video. And I honestly wanted to give up too at that point. But I could relate to everything you were saying about, you know, your fears of having an audience and the expectations for it to be really good. And then your personal pressure of wanting it to be like a bestseller. Yeah. It's a lot.

yours has become a bestseller now hasn't it yeah I saw it was a title of your yeah that's that's really cool it's really cool and unexpected and I wasn't going for that okay so it's kind of nice when it happens yeah were you actually not going for that or were you like sort of semi going for it and like trying to convince yourself you want because that's sort of what I do

Yeah, I think at the start, yes, obviously, who doesn't want a bestseller? And I think the beauty of having a platform is you feel like it could be within reach too. Exactly.

But I think during the writing process, every time I had to sit down to write, I was just filled with so much dread because every single word had to be a best selling word. And like every paragraph I'd read back and be like, but is this a best paragraph? And I'm comparing it to all these incredible books like Atomic Habits or books that have changed my life and thinking, okay, but this is nowhere near that standard.

So I think in order for me to finish it, I had to reshape my narrative around what I wanted my book to be in order to finish it. And what do you change that? What was that narrative in the end? Okay. Kind of how I deal with perfectionism in general is firstly, finish it. Like don't overthink every single word you're writing. Just get it down. You can edit it in the process. But secondly,

I think actually, maybe the first time I heard this was you telling me, was there are no unique messages. There are only unique messengers. And that's always stuck with me. The fact that, you know, this doesn't have to totally reinvent the wheel. It's already being reinvented through the fact that it's coming through my mouth, I guess, through my experiences. And so...

sort of finding value in whatever I have to share. And clearly there's something valuable about it because I've been able to build a platform off of talking about these things. So that was also this confidence boost of being like, "Jade, you have something to share." It just doesn't always feel like it's that valuable. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Yeah, and I suppose when you're writing a book, it's like, this is a book.

and a book feels like a big deal yeah a youtube video doesn't feel like a big deal although like weirdly you know your youtube videos will get more views than yeah almost anyone will ever sell any copies of a book so it's it's weird that like you know you can get a million views on a youtube video if you had a million copies of a book sold you'd be like kind of world famous like atomic habits james clear level like life-changing um but there's something about writing a book that just makes it feel like a really big deal um and i don't know if you have this but like

I like like basically every week I need to be told that my experience is valuable what I have to say does have does have worth because I always think like why the hell would anyone give a toss what I have to say about anything how did you kind of go about like approach that that side of it I feel like I still struggle with that even the thought of like talking about the book and marketing the book even though like I'm so proud of this thing there's still a part of me that doesn't like talking about the book because I'm still scared that like it's not good enough that

Like the imposter syndrome. I don't think it ever goes away. Yeah. Because you're not an author. You're just a person, right? A person who's written a book, but that is what an author is. And that's how very much how I feel. I feel like I'm a person who's written a book, not an author. Um,

Yeah. So I don't know. I think just support, like having good people around you, like you said, being told that your work is good, is good. Like I have an editor and I force her to have a call with me every week. And I force her to like go through my work with me and also just kind of like

validate that it was decent yeah and i also sent it out to like teachers and students and got feedback from people who i guess said it was all right and then i was like wow okay then i might as well keep going okay that's helpful yeah so there's a thing called london's london writer salon which is like um

They have like in-person events, but they also have like four times a day writer's hour, which is like a Zoom co-working session. And so I joined this for the first time like last week. And there were like 300 people there. And it was people from all around the world joining at different time zones. And it was facilitated by this person who is an author. And they had like five minutes at the start of...

Is it free? Oh, it's free. Yeah. You just join. It's like a Zoom call. It was like a really good poem about combating imposter syndrome as an author. Share it with us. The problem is I can't remember where I saved it. This is the issue with having like a zillion note-taking apps. Where, oh yeah, it was this. This guy called Garth Greenwell, who's apparently an author.

And in this London Writers Group, every time they do a session, they share words of wisdom to keep you going as a writer. We love that. So this is the quote. I remember thinking as an MFA student that the anxiety I felt would lessen when I got an agent. Then when I sold a book. Then when I got my edits. Then when the book was published. Then when I got my first review. Then when I got a particular review. Then when I finished a second book. Then when I sold a second book, etc. At each point, the content changes, but the anxiety remains the same. Hmm.

The only time the anxiety lessens is when I'm bent over my notebook doing the only work that matters, trying to write a decent sentence, then another decent sentence, then one good page and another. I was like, oh, this is like really nice and wholesome. Like extremely relatable. Yeah, for sure. We're going to take a very quick break to introduce our sponsor for this episode. And that is Brilliant. I've been using Brilliant for the last two plus years. They're a fantastic platform for learning maths, science and computer science with engaging and interactive opportunities.

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And the first 200 people to sign up with that link will get 20% off the annual premium subscription. So thank you Brilliant for sponsoring this episode. Wait, so where are you at? So have you made multiple proposals but none of them feel good enough? I remember you writing like a manuscript too. Yeah, so we're on the third version of the proposal and this now feels good.

So it's taken 12 months to get to the point where like finally the proposal feels good. And my agent and editor said the sort of the soft deadline is the end of this week. And so I'm going to do a little sesh tonight doing chapter outlines. I've got a call with one of my helpers tonight at 9 p.m. doing some more like chapter outline stuff.

Then we figure out the sample chapter. But like the weird thing about a proposal, as you know, is you've got to pretend like you've written the thing. For sure. Before you've actually written the thing. Like what the hell? Why it's useful and the value of it and the structure, the whole arc. Yeah, it's crazy. How did you go about structuring yours? What was the process? Yeah, I think what was helpful for me is I already kind of had an idea of what I wanted to do in my gap year.

So I'd already written some passages and sort of had these chapter outlines, but that was when I'd only done school. So now I sort of had this more life experience from university and there were things I wanted to add. So I sort of just blurted out everything that I would want to include and then sort of just found a structure for me. It wasn't actually too hard to structure it. Okay. Yeah. I think I'm overthinking that quite a lot. Yeah. Don't overthink it. Okay. Just write it. And then it works.

But what were you like Google Docs or Notion? Like what was your notion? Yeah. And you can just like drag bits around and be like that goes there. That sounds reasonable.

Okay. Notebook and notion. Okay. I think I'm just overthinking this. I'm thinking like, oh, I need to have the perfect structure. Everyone keeps telling me that it's just a proposal. It can always change. Okay. I'm interested as well because I felt you also have people involved in your book, right? Helping you out with it. Do you think that adds pressure or do you think it's helpful? I think it's helpful. But one thing I've realized over the last 12 months is that I can't lean too much on other people because really like no one knows what they're doing.

We're all just making it up as we go along. I kind of realized this, that I think I was hoping that I'd be able to like hire someone who's like worked on books before and just like they would produce something magical. And what it took me a year, the last year to realize is that and something of quite a few of them have said about themselves is like, look, if we could write a book, we would be writing books. We would be helping authors write books. And so really it comes from the author and they just kind of mold it into shape.

And the other thing is that like that thing of you that you said that you know, you've built an audience through sharing you're the stuff that's authentic to you. And so that should probably be the stuff that's in the book rather than thinking that someone else could like, I don't know, mine your brain for all the stuff and turn it into this magical like life changing thing. So it's really nice having people helping to sort of sanity check me.

And it's really like validating when I think, yes, I think I've got the perfect structure and I share it with someone and they're like, oh, this is really good. I bet that feels amazing. That feels amazing. It's like, oh, thank God I'm not just in my head. But yeah, I think if I had, if I didn't have anyone helping with it and I just did it myself,

I suspect I probably would have got to a similar point sooner and just not, like, overthought absolutely everything. Because there is a point of, like, too many cooks potentially spoiling the broth sometimes. Did you have that at all? So I purposely, like, didn't get too many people involved because, yeah, I feel like with me I feel judged if I'm sharing it all, like, all the ideas with too many people because...

sometimes I have to like have an idea and then flesh it out and write it a bit first before I want to share it so I feel like if I was like I don't know share an idea with someone in a zoom call and then it was shot down straight away I wouldn't even give it any life or flesh that thing out that I thought could be good um so yeah so for me it was really helpful just having an editor you know one person she's like deep in my book understands me understands the vision I talk with her once a week but not like overdoing it with overthinking but then that's just like

Me as a person. Interesting. So there's this book I'm reading called...

it's called Radical Candor and they talk it's it's it's sort of yeah a sort of management businessy type book um and they tell the author tells a lot of stories from her time working at Google and working at Apple um and around this idea of creativity and she she says that the mistake a lot of people make is that they don't realize that when something is just an idea it's actually very very fragile and you don't want to anyone to shoot the idea down while it's fragile you want them to help build it up

while it's fragile and then once it's built up at that point you want people to start trying to poke holes in it um and that was like a real revelation for me because i think i do the thing of i have a half-baked idea yeah and then i share it with someone and they shoot it down and i think okay well that's stupid yeah and then you don't flesh it out don't flesh it out but i'm like like obviously a half-baked idea is very easy to shoot down i need to flesh it out or help get people to help flesh it out before then you know

presenting it to the world for it to be shut down yeah if that makes sense that's so interesting yeah do you feel like you've learned a lot about yourself through the process of trying to write this book

Yeah, I do. I'm curious, like, what have you learned about yourself? And then I'll share mine so far. Firstly, I think I procrastinate so much more when I have like loads of expectations about something, you know, I want this to be good. I want it to change people's lives. I want it to be a bestseller, all of these unnecessary things that I'm applying to something that, you know, isn't even there yet. It hasn't even been written. Yes. And

Secondly, I really need like a solid space, like a writing routine around a place.

Oh, what did that look like for you? Like for me, I had a cafe in Seoul that I, when I went there, I would never bring other people. I wouldn't like go on my phone. Like I had complete sanctity of space over this little cafe and I'd go there and I would just sit for like three hours and write and then leave. And like, as soon as I stopped writing, I would leave. And for me, that was like the most productive time of writing the book at any point was when I had developed that, that place. Yeah. Oh,

Amazing. I feel like that's what I'm missing in my life right now. Because I'm trying to do the writing kind of here and there, sometimes at home, sometimes at like WeWork, but it's always in the middle of other things. And I never have like a clear three hour block to just write stuff. Yeah, I was going to say, because...

like you I guess have many things on your mind right you have YouTube you have like other work YouTube university like everything but that's why yeah you should have that because like I was doing uni I had a uni essay due all the time I had like two essays a week sometimes the social life the YouTube everything that if I didn't have the separation I don't think I would have written anything what was your like what was your routine like was it like writing every day writing like I couldn't write every day because uni was just like too much

I'd write like a few times a week, but based off of my schedule. So I would block off in my calendar, like three hours to go to that cafe. And I would just sit there and write. Okay. I'm going to start doing this from like today. Just,

blocking out time to write i haven't really been doing that um and it's like surprisingly hard to make progress in like 20 minute to half an hour segments here and there for sure like you need that like uninterrupted time to just think and get stuff down i actually feel like the first 20 minutes is like i just write crap you know like i you just sit there to write to get yourself into the flow but the good stuff doesn't come until like an hour in yeah and then you have like a really good hour session of writing yeah after that and did you find as well that like

Writing stuff down helps you think stuff through. Oh for sure. Because I also find that I get off topic in my mind if I'm not writing it down. So it's like, okay cool, I know I want to talk about X, like this thing in my head. So let me like think about it, let me try and develop it in my head. It's not going to happen. If anything I'm going to start overthinking something else or... Yeah, so definitely thinking through on paper is the best and then you can read back this horrible thing you've written and turn it into something good. Nice.

So it sounds like from August through to March you were sort of chipping away at writing this thing. Yes. What happens then in the book publishing slash editing process? What does it look like? Oh my god, it's fascinating. There's so many parts to publishing that I just didn't even know existed. So...

Yeah, so it went through my editor, then it went through a different editor, then it went through a different editor, and then there's someone called a proofreader who literally just goes and like checks for grammar mistakes. And what the editors do is they just check for kind of grammar mistakes too, but just like will reword sentences if they sound horrible. And the beauty of that process is it's really collaborative. So like everything's like, you know, sent back to me, do you like how I've reworded this sentence?

And I'm like, no, like let's change that back. But they didn't do any major changes. It's just like small things. And then after it's been sent through a proofreader, it gets typeset, which is fancy, you know, it's just someone's whole job to put the words on a page.

Yeah, so then all of the production side comes in. They do the illustrations. I got to collaborate with the designer on that. And then the cover was happening the whole time while I was writing. And how did they pick the title?

Oh, the title. The only study guide you'll ever need. Yes, this is probably the most pretentious title of all time. Can you tell I didn't pick it? Yeah, I mean, it kind of says what it does on the tin, but like a bit of pretentious added in. Yeah, I think just in the world of studying, you need something that's like...

bam you know just is obvious what what it is um i came up with loads of you know metaphorical names which were not as good like what i don't even remember i had this like notion page where i just like brain dump things but the publisher came up with this and i don't mind it how did you feel about the pretentiousness of it

Was it like a... Of course. Are you kidding? I think it's the same imposter syndrome thing. As if me, little old me, has decided that I've written the only study guide you will ever need, Ali. It's very pretentious, but I don't know. I think in the world of sales and marketing, it's great. It's a very good title. But it's weird. I think it was...

Who was I speaking to? I think Sheen mentioned to me that you, maybe you mentioned in one of the videos or something that you thought this was pretentious. Oh no, when we were doing research for this interview, there was a bit where you said that this title was pretentious and that was like, I never once thought of it as a pretentious title until I heard you mention it and I was like, oh, okay. Oh yeah, I can see how that's a thing. And I imagine this is so much of like,

You know, stuff is a bigger deal in our heads than it is to anyone else. And like the only study guide you know, yeah, fair play. That's so interesting. Like I'm not thinking at all that like who the hell is Jade Bowler to tell me is the only study guide I'll ever need. But that's probably what's going on in your head. That's why every time someone looks at this book, you know, like who does she think she is? Yeah. No, I had to have so many hype up chats from friends about the title of this book after it got approved.

So let's talk about some of these chapters. It's also like a nice book. It's like it's got like illustrations. It's got like, I don't know. I really love the design. It's like really pretty with like illustrations. How did you decide what you wanted the illustrations to be? And like, were you imagining it being like a pretty looking book from the start or more like an Atomic Habits-esque like?

Lots of text type book or what? This is definitely prettier than I thought it would be. Definitely more text heavy because, you know, you have some beautifully like illustrated. Have you seen Women Don't Owe You Pretty?

oh it's a great book yeah okay i feel like it's become a trend in the book space to have like instagrammable books with you know yeah oh thank you but those are even more like illustration heavy inside um so i wanted to have an element of that that's something you know you can just snap some photos for instagram of the diagrams and get something out of them and also appeal to like visual learners who might not have the time to read everything controversial visual learners i know true dude does that even exist is everything that's true

people who say that they are vision learners and I wanted to have this put it in practice section as well so it's like oh you know if I can't be bothered to read the whole chapter I can just skim through the summary of the most important points I also wanted to break it up by having contributions from other people showing their experiences but yeah I knew it was going to be text heavy

So chapter one, motivation. Yes. What's the sort of the thesis of what's your thesis about motivation? Oh, my God. Big questions, aren't they? OK, so in this chapter, I well, the first line, I think, captures it. When I got a D in my first A-level chemistry test, I convinced myself that it was bad luck.

And I sort of first dig into sort of failure and how that's really unmotivational and then breaking down what kept me trying after I had this horrible experience with a teacher that was just not good. And in my chemistry class, it went from like 28 students to nine students the next year because of issues with the school. And that was a point in my life where I really felt like giving up on this subject.

and how I eventually found motivation. I'm also conscious that you believe motivation is a myth. That's just a title of a video. I don't actually believe motivation is a myth.

So, I mean, so yeah, so I sort of dig into this idea of what gets you motivated is having a why of some kind, whether that is, you know, a long-term goal of somewhere you want to end up. You can have like an extrinsic source of motivation, which is something like a grade you're trying to achieve or university you're trying to get into, but also trying to find this intrinsic sense of why is it you're studying? Like what is interesting about these subjects?

even if you can't find anything naturally, you need to convince yourself that there's something interesting about this. Like these maths problems are the basis of so many incredible things that maybe you are interested in. And then yeah, using that motivation to then put the systems into your life, which I then dig into for the rest of the book. - Okay, so it sounds like if something is like dull on the surface,

you're saying that we can like essentially talk ourselves into thinking it's less dull. Yes. And that gives sort of the spark of motivation, which then once you build the systems, then you can stop relying on motivation. Like how does it work? Kind of, yes. So I believe that motivation is kind of just about the narrative you tell yourself about most things in life, right? The idea of being demotivated is you not wanting to do something and you don't want to do it for a reason of what you're telling yourself about that thing.

So if you're not motivated to study, why is that? Do you not like the subject? Why don't you like the subject? I break it down into things like conformity. Is it because your peers around you don't like that subject? Is it the expectations people are placing on you? For example, you have a teacher who believes that you're just not going to succeed and you've told yourself that you are not going to succeed in this subject.

and asking yourself these series of questions that break down why it is you're not trying and then trying to find motivation through reshaping that oh nice yeah that's some good stuff I

I say it so much better in the book. I feel like I'm just rambling in this. Yeah, I guess the book has been through like 18 levels of editing. Yeah, it's like I can't say it in the same way. So we've got chapter two, the academic system, chapter three, how we learn. And I noticed that there was a cheeky forgetting curve somewhere in there. Yes, I think there's also, I could be wrong, but a little contribution from someone. Yeah.

Yes, I was flicking through this and I saw forgetting curve, then I stumbled across my contribution like a little bit later. What is the forgetting curve?

Oh my, I feel like everyone on your channel is very familiar with the forgetting curve. Okay, so there's a guy called Herman Ebbinghaus. He's a good friend of ours. Yeah, and he basically did loads of studies about human memory and found out that, you know, when you're learning something after a certain period of time of not reviewing it, your memory decays exponentially.

But if you review the same bit of information at regularly increasing intervals, you can boost your attention back up to that 100%, which is why we have something called space repetition, which I feel like is like, I don't know, that's your brand, half your brand, Ali, is space repetition. Yes, which is the idea that you review information at these regular intervals to combat that forgetting curve.

How do you personally recommend slash do you personally organize your like space repetition timetable? Like how do you do it? Okay, so I use Anki, which is like a flashcard service that effectively does it for you. I also use Quizlet. But I actually have a spreadsheet, which is great. I also use, so I have Notion for like my timetabling of my life. But I also have a spreadsheet for all my different university chapters. And then I use Anki. Okay. Okay.

So do you have stuff that is like not because Anki is very sort of like one bite at a time type stuff. What about more like conceptual stuff or broad picture stuff or you know what is this person's theory about this thing which would actually span like two pages rather than one flash card. Yeah. Do you do you use space repetition for that stuff as well? How do you do it? Yes so I combine it with other techniques. I don't know if you heard of blurting. This is something. Oh this is honestly my favorite technique. Oh okay.

It's kind of active recall, but I just, it's a technical blurting where you choose a chapter or a concept or a process that you're trying to learn. You give yourself a few prompt words from that chapter and then effectively you just blurt out everything you can remember from this process or topic or chapter.

And then you can set a timer, you can do how much you can do in five minutes and then compare it back to your notes. And then with a highlighter, fill in everything that you didn't know or that you've forgotten. And then you compare that back. And I think this is something you also talk about, which is, you know, it's not about shoving information into you. It is about forcing it out and that's how you learn. And then going back and noticing what you don't know.

um and so i use space repetition in how often i blurt nice yeah the whole like it's it's it's so counterintuitive in a way where we just assume that the way we learn stuff is by putting information in but we actually learn stuff by taking information out yeah that's weird mad yeah and like completely contradicts the whole like oh i'm just gonna sit and highlight a textbook and read because also it's strange because you feel the most intelligent when you're reading the textbook right like yeah because all the information they're like i've

with that that diagram is correct like yeah it makes sense whereas you feel so stupid when you're trying to drag information from your brain and nothing's coming out but that's you know when you're learning the most actually learning yeah yeah

So we've got, I imagine we've got all of the whole active recall and stuff in here. I was intrigued by productivity hacks, chapter six. This is sort of up my street. Like, what would you say are the key productivity hacks that you found helpful? Yes. So I kind of, after having read so many different productivity books, I wanted to break it down to the most simple, the student who...

doesn't have time to read a thousand things on productivity, could just easily implement. And a lot of this is based off of the Pomodoro technique. I'm sure you guys are familiar with this if you're into the productivity space, but the idea that you set a timer, you choose one task, focus on it for 25 minutes and then give yourself a break.

I think that's just an amazing one to beat procrastination, to be more productive. And also, I actually, I think I quoted one of your productivity equations. You have actually, yeah. I was just looking through this chapter and I saw that, oh,

But I think I also, yeah, I added something to it. You've like added stuff to it. Yeah. It's very interesting. So what's your productivity equation? Okay. So my productivity equation is, well, maybe we'll go back to the classic one. Yeah. So the classic productivity equation is obviously output over time. So in a factory, you know, you're trying to produce the most products in the least amount of time or using the least amount of resources. And what I added to this is if you multiply it by focus and forethoughts,

I think that is that's how you are the most productive and then the whole chapter is based off of around this equation. So the idea that if you can reach this level of deep focus, whether that is having sanctity of space, like for me going to my cafe, deciding actively that I'm going to turn off my phone and go into this place, I'm going to be far more productive and the work is going to be more meaningful.

And then forethought is the idea of planning, you know, having your notion page, your timetable and any planning that you do will make that time much more productive. And then here's where I borrowed from you, fun.

Because Ali, you know, we've got to make life fun. Got to make life fun, yeah. That's a really interesting model. So productivity equals output over time multiplied by focus, multiplied by forethought, thought, multiplied by fun. 3Fs. 3Fs, that's really good. And then the chapter goes through like focus, forethought, fun. Forethought feels a bit shoehorny into the 3Fs. I was going to say. But it's got to be done. It's memorable, yeah. Come on.

Yeah, no, I'm doing this all the time in my book. It's like, I've got a word for it, but it just, I need like three Cs or three Fs or three Rs or something. It's a little bit. But I'm going to remember the three Fs now. That's like a really, really interesting way of looking at it. And I suppose once you've got an equation, you can then target different bits of the equation to become more productive. That's the thing you care about.

How do you feel about like toxic productivity? It's a word that gets bandied about quite a lot. - Yeah. - Yeah. - No, it's a really good thing. This is what I talk about in, I'd say the second half of my book, like all the stuff about mental health, perfectionism, hustle culture, all of that falls into toxic productivity.

I think it's people misusing the idea of productive. Productivity is spending your time well. - Yeah, I agree. - That's literally the definition, right? And that doesn't mean sitting and revising for 10 hours, which is what productivity has often come to be associated with.

And I think if you reshape it to view productivity as just spending your time well, whether that's for enjoyment, resetting, self-care, then there almost isn't a toxic productivity. It's just you're not spending your time in the best ways for you. Yeah, and I think it is so important for young people to...

take more time for things like mindfulness, where you like totally switch off from the internet. And in the chapters talking about exam season, you know, you're kind of like a warrior going into a battle. And when a warrior is, like when a soldier is going into battle, they're thinking about their diet, they're thinking about the levels of rest they get, you know, good night's sleep before all of these things. And when you're in exam season, you start to do the same. And one of the most productive things you can do is looking after yourself.

Yeah, I sometimes get messages from people being like, how do I study when I'm tired? Or how do you pull an all-nighter? I'm just like, don't do it. Don't study when you're tired. Don't pull an all-nighter. There's like almost nothing to be gained from doing that stuff.

What are your thoughts on toxic productivity? Basically the same as yours, to be honest. I think the way I usually... So I often get accused of sort of peddling toxic productivity stuff, as do a bunch of other... I don't think you do because you're very on the sort of self-love type thing. But if you're of our other YouTuber friends... I used to, a lot. Oh, did you? Yeah, for sure. StudyTube, come on! Yeah, StudyTube, 14-hour study with me and all that kind of stuff. And to me, it's just a bit baffling because to me, productivity is...

doing the things that matter to us. And so to me, hanging out with my friends, I would consider productive. And like playing Ratchet and Clank on the PlayStation, if I'm taking a break, I would consider productive. But I think it's too easy. It's very easy for people to look at a headline, 14 hours study with me or something like that. Not actually watch the video and realize that it's actually four hours of work and the rest of it is just banter.

And part of the advertising around this video for it to do well on YouTube has to be something sometimes a little bit extreme. The only study guide you ever need. Come on. It doesn't mean I think it's the only study guide you'll ever need. Yeah, there's a bit of artistic license in the typing of this stuff. But yeah, I fully agree with your perspective on this, doing more of the things that matter to us.

whether that is taking a break, hanging out with friends, hanging out with family and doing things that are meaningful to us. So the forethought bit and having fun along the way. Exactly. And like, if you do more of that, like, I don't know how that can be, that can be toxic, but I guess it's, I don't know.

Yeah. Or even focus. For me, the idea of that is when you're relaxing, you shouldn't be focusing on all the things that you have to do. And, you know, like, oh, I should be revising right now. Like, focus on just watching that film or enjoying time with your friends. It's like being present is productive. Yeah. No, absolutely. What do you how would you define hustle culture? You mentioned that. Oh, yes. What's the deal with that? Okay.

Okay, wow. This is a big topic. I feel like we have just been trained our whole lives to value things with output that's tangible. So, you know, whether that is a grade, that is the university that you're going to, the work you're going to get for a paycheck, like all of that has some kind of goal you can work towards.

And so anything like self-care where the thing that you're achieving isn't tangible, we just don't value. You know, when that's looking after your mental health, it's not a tangible output. So you don't put the same time and energy into it. And that's so toxic. We've got this culture where it's like everyone wants a side hustle, which, you know, we love a side hustle. It's great, but not at the detriment of others.

killing yourself in the process because that takes out the fun that takes out the productivity all of it um yeah yeah this is something that like i often struggle with it's very much a first world problem um where i will feel guilty when i'm not doing something that generates economic output like in the last few days i got the new ratchet and clank game on the playstation this is you know a game i used to play a lot when i was like

between the ages of eight and 13. And it's been really nice just spending an hour in the evenings, just like shooting some people with like this cartoon cat thing. It's really good. It's like very kind of childish game. Um, but I've historically been like sort of flip flop between like anti video game and pro video game, anti video game, because it's a waste of time that, you know, is not generating economic output pro video game precisely because it's a waste of time that doesn't generate economic output at this, at this kind of stuff. Um,

and i feel like for me the more successful i become in sort of output terms the more the goal post changes and i think oh but now we've got a team of like 12 people and now you know i should always do more right yeah i should be doing more because now these people's livelihoods are dependent on my youtube channel being successful all this kind of stuff how do you like how do you kind of find time slash make time for the self-carry stuff that's not associated with economic output

I think in just the same way that you plan your time for the things that create economic output, you have to plan your time for the things that don't. At least that often helps me. So like for me, I just have a really strong routine in the morning, which sets my whole mind up for the day. What does that look like? Oh. On JD Jade's morning routine. Yeah.

Yeah, so I will do yoga and meditation like almost every morning without fail. And I find the days that I don't do it, I'm just a worse human. And that's not something that's gonna make me money or it doesn't contribute to doing my job better, even though I guess it does. Yeah, it's just something that makes me feel good every morning I do that. Yeah, and then also something I'm trying to do is

on Sundays, just not touch my phone or try and not be in the social media world as much as I am in the week. And then I feel like when I release this need to share,

I also don't, I'm not in hustle culture as much because I think being in the study tube world or the productive world, you feel like you have to be doing cool stuff so that you can share the cool stuff. And then when I've decided why I'm not going to share anything today, then it's like half the pressure's gone. And then it's like only myself I've got to do it for. And then I can just enjoy my time a bit more. Interesting.

What does your yoga, yoga and meditation practice look like? Yeah. I do YouTube videos. I don't know if you know Yoga with Adrian. Oh, yes. You do? I started her 30-day challenge and got to about day seven, day nine. Oh, what happened? I forgot.

I forgot to do it one day and then the habit broke. Yeah. Intended to do it at some point. Never really got around to it. You know, the classic. Yeah. I really like her. I also really like yoga with Patrick. Patrick and Carling. He's like tough power yoga. Okay.

which I really like. So I do like a bit of her as like soft yoga, good for breathing. - Very wholesome. - Very wholesome. You just feel safe in her presence. - Yeah, genuinely. - She's lovely, yeah. And then he's a bit more like, okay, I'm sweating. So that's like a nice balance for me. And then I always do like a five minute meditation on Insight Timer or YouTube.

Oh, okay. Nice. So you just like wake up and decide to put on a random YouTube video or do you have like a playlist that you're working through? Yeah, again, it depends. So sometimes I like put it ready on my YouTube the night before, just like reduce the friction in the morning when I'm tired, I can just wake up and do it. Okay. Yeah. So do you just like roll out of bed onto your yoga mat and then do stuff like that? Yeah. Oh, like genuinely? Yeah. Oh, okay. Fair play. Now, remember last time we spoke, that inspired me to get a yoga mat. Oh. So I now have a yoga mat, which is like behind that curtain over there. Mm-hmm.

And I was using that for like home workouts and like yoga sessions during lockdown when that was a thing.

How's your yoga habit now? It's entirely non-existent right now. But I'm moving to London in about seven days time. That's exciting. You should try hot yoga. I really want to try hot yoga. It's so good. I love it. Yeah, I've heard good things. Have you ever tried acro yoga? Never, but I also really want to try it. I want to try acro yoga. That would be absolutely sick. Do you follow Sam Calder and Chelsea Kawai and stuff on Instagram? They're really cool. These like travel vloggers, Instagram people.

sort of they do these incredible like acroyoga routines so cool both like incredible shape he's got like six pack abs like all the time it's like absolute goals and every time I see one of their videos I'm like whoa this looks awesome it looks really hard though no that's definitely a goal in my life to try that I

Nice. Yeah. Yeah. I'm going to try and do a few classes in London once I, I feel like I'm deferring a lot of things to once I moved to London, then I will do X. So easy to do. I feel like it's too easy to do that for a lot of things in life as well. Once I finish uni, then I'll start a YouTube channel. Once I get promoted, then I'll be happy. Why not today? Why not yoga today? Exactly. I should just do it today. Do you have any things that you feel connect your mind and body together?

What does that mean? That's a deep question, I know. So like for me, I find yoga is a practice that really just makes me feel more like present. So my mind is like switched off, I'm in my body and then for the whole rest of the day I just feel like more grounded, more connected. I know what you mean. I have this on Friday mornings when I have my tennis lesson at eight o'clock. Oh wow, there you go. Yeah, that's the feeling. I always feel like really good after that lesson and then I'm like sort of ready to crush it the rest of the day. That's really cool.

huh i should do more activity in the morning that yeah that would be a fun thing because it just sets up your whole day to be better yeah and we've got like these balls flying at you from a coach you can hit them really hard it's like yeah time to think you just have to have you always done tennis no i've uh i dabbled with it in school but i've started taking it seriously about six months ago and i realized that you can just like get lessons and stuff yeah and it's great and here we come we're gonna hear we come at some point it's a it's on the bucket list um uh so

Meditation as well. I've been dabbling. I'm on day four of Sam Harris's waking up app. Oh, yeah. I've been on day four for about a week now. So what does the app have you do? It's just a very beginner 30 day course for now. Okay, cool. Like sit in a quiet place and then you have it in your airpods or whatever. Yeah. And it's mostly like breathing and

He's like occasionally he's like, okay, at this point you probably find your mind is wandering. So don't worry. I was going to say, how do you find it? Do you find you're like able to generally focus on the guided meditation or your thoughts everywhere? I find I'm usually able to focus on it. I just, I feel like I haven't done it for long enough to actually get the benefits of it. Cause I do it for a day or two. Once I speak to someone like you, it's like meditation. Yes.

And then something or the other happens. I have like a Zoom call at 8am and I'm like, oh God. Yeah, I don't know. And then I think, what the hell am I doing? I can literally do whatever I want. I choose my own schedule. This was the point of all of this, like, I don't know, side hustle stuff. And yet the calendar still feels outside of my control. So I...

I need to sort this out. Yeah. It's not good. Wait, weren't you saying recently that like your calendar feels like it's taken up by a lot of managing people and yeah, as opposed to just doing activities for you or like general strategy, I guess, for you as a person. Yeah. How has that been, this shift of managing people? It is really fun. And I used to think that meetings were a waste of time. And I used to look at people's calendars who have like meeting after meeting after meeting and think like, how can you possibly get anything done?

But now that I've got a fairly big team, it's like my time is actually best spent in a meeting, kind of sharing some ideas and a vision and basically telling other people what to do, which feels really good. But then if I take a step back, I'm like, I've just been in meetings like literally from nine o'clock to five, five p.m. And I've got like a three hour long podcast and I've got like another Zoom call with my writing coach and now it's like 11 p.m.

Like, it's... Like, when you're in it, you don't realise just how, like, all-encompassing, how all soul-sucking it can be. And then occasionally when I find time to take a step back, I think, what the hell's going on with my calendar? But I'm finding that, given that I live my life by my calendar, I've now blocked out four hours Wednesday afternoons called at least time to think. That's awesome. Or, like, no-one can interrupt anything. Yeah. And I...

will try not to bring my phone into that. Yeah. To just like write or just go for a walk or things like that. The other thing I'm trying to do is...

scheduling something in at like 5 or 6 p.m for an hour like an activity or something which forces me to get out of the office or get off my computer yeah and then that's like a reset yeah and you're probably more effective up till then right because you're like i need to get it all done by this point exactly and then in the evening if i really want to and i'm really enjoying it then i can choose to do more work yeah things that look like work yes

But if not, then I can just play PlayStation or hang out with a friend. Amazing. So that's the theory anyway. I'm going to, implementing it over the next few weeks and I'll report back and let you know how it goes. I was going to say, wow, that's so cool though. This shift to, I guess, managing a whole company, right? Like I heard you saying that you were reading a lot more books in the business space. Has that been helping you a lot? Oh yeah. Yeah. I feel like every time I read a new business book, I'm like, damn, I wish I discovered this sooner. Um,

Because again, like a few years ago, I'd have been like, oh, business books, what a waste of time. You learn business by doing business. And I was like, oh, actually, these guys, these guys with like 40 years of experience running, like they know what they're talking about. This is some good advice. So now I'm finding that

Something I'm interested in is your idea of hierarchy in your business. Do you feel like a superior to the people you're working with a lot of the time? Is it like, does it feel like you're almost friends and then you're bouncing ideas off of each other? Like, how do you think about it? And I don't know if you've heard of like holacracy or more. Oh, no. What's that? Oh, we can talk about that after. Okay.

Okay, how do I feel about hierarchy? I don't feel like a superior in any way. In fact, and I very much see us all as, you know, we're all friends slash we're on the same team kind of thing. But at the same time, there is that thing of I have...

I know I need to communicate like an expectation of what like, of what I want and what success looks like. And I often do a very bad job of doing that because I think, oh, we're just friends. We're all just making it up as we go along. And it's only recently that I realized like if I set like a goal, like an arbitrary goal of like, you know, by the end of the year, we want 150,000 subscribers on the email list. Mm-hmm.

Like that's actually quite useful for Jakob, who's our marketing guy, who's helping grow the email list because now he's got something to shoot for. Exactly. Whereas before I was like, oh, KPIs are a waste of time. Who cares about KPIs? I'm also surprised as to, because in my head, I'm just making it all up as I go along. And so when I like float an idea by the team, in my head, it's just an idea and it's just a rough pencil sketch.

but in their heads it's like oh Ali said we need to do something so we need to do the thing and then like a week later it's like the idea changes and then people are like oh but you said this other thing last week like and now you're changing your mind every other day like what's going on I'm like

Wow. Yeah.

don't do anything with it all that kind of stuff um there's been some of the challenges with the management stuff but it's like really fun yeah and it's really fun like working with people and like so cool angus is over here at the moment shout out to angus just hanging out and it's been really really nice having people in we work co-working space to the point where all of the people we're now hiring we want to be based in london to have like an actual london office and

And your agency, Sixteens, has been like Danny and Fran and stuff have been really helping us on the operations side about like what it's like to grow a business and things like that. So that's been fun. Wow, cool. What about you? Have you thought about like kind of expanding, teamifying your brand as it were? Yeah.

Not right now, just because I think while I'm in university, my priority is still having a social life and learning about myself and just making mistakes and just living my life as a person beyond YouTube. Because I feel like that's so important to me during university and I'm also lucky I get to travel a lot and do all these things. And I think I don't have the freedom to do that when I'm investing so heavily in YouTube.

So the next two years of my life is still in that experiment phase. And then I think after YouTube, when I'm like, okay, cool, like maybe this is the career that I want to pursue, that I'll turn it into something. But right now I like the flexibility of my life. Are you not worried that, and I, so this is my thought process with this, that like,

I have hit the jackpot. I got right place, right time. YouTube channel took off. I really don't want to screw this up. The algorithm, anything could happen to my channel. Anything could happen to algorithm. If I stop uploading videos at a cadence of two videos per week, something bad is going to happen. And I don't want that something bad to happen. Are you speaking from experience?

And therefore, given that, you don't want that to happen. But then you're chained to the algorithm. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. It seems like you have like shed the chains of the algorithm. I think I have. At least that's what it looks like on the outside. I think I have. Yeah. How did you do it? Defining your priorities in life. Okay. If your priorities are just numerical success for your whole life, then brilliant. Yeah.

But for me, I know that my human fulfillment does not just come from YouTube. And yes, when I'm succeeding, it's brilliant. I feel great. You know, like it's just, it's like, I don't know how to describe it. It's like this thing in the background that like, I know it's all going good, you know, with the algorithm. But in the times of my life where I've only focused on YouTube and I've been doing the best with the algorithm, sometimes when I'm the least happy, because I'm not putting the same energy into relationships in my life, into, you know,

I don't know, just learning about myself through other activities. So I define that as a priority for myself is while I'm at university, I want to have the space to not just be a YouTuber and to be messy. And, you know, an element of like being a bit chaotic at uni means I can't do YouTube to the same extent as if I was just focusing on it. Yeah. So reprioritization. But it's a sacrifice for sure. Yeah.

So then do you think at all about like two years from now, if you don't take YouTube so seriously that maybe the YouTube career won't be there and you'll have to like get a real job? Is that something that concerns you? It used to, but no. Oh, okay. No, because the algorithm, okay, yeah, if you don't post for a bit, it might come back and have to build things up again. But...

If you're able to do it once, why can't you do it again? You know, like you've clearly learned how to do this. You have something of value to share. People want to listen to you. People know who you are. And even if it took six months of you getting

you know, working hard to get back to anywhere close to where you were. You've done it before. It would be so much easier than the first time round. And yet you would have gained so much in the time off. This is how I view, how I view. I'm not saying you have to quit YouTube, but I also do, I feel this fear in you, Ali, to like, to, to,

to stop, you know, when the algorithm is so on your side, I'm so proud of you. Like you did so well on YouTube. But I remember when we were having the chat last year about you thinking about traveling and increasing your surface area for serendipity. All that stuff. All that stuff. Yeah. And I can imagine it must feel even further away when it's like, you know, you've got a team and you're learning all this stuff on this incredible business side. Yeah.

But yeah, I don't know. Is there still a part of you that thinks there's the things you want to do beyond YouTube, but you're chained by YouTube? Yeah, I think so. I think the way that I think of it is less about YouTube specifically and more about like the wider kind of being a thought leader slash, you know, that sort of internet personality kind of thing, which sounds really cringe to say out loud. He's a thought leader. That's a dream anyway. Yeah.

And the thing that always worries me is that it's all as much as we've tried to diversify away from YouTube, it's still all very dependent on YouTube. For sure. And I look at, you know, there are very few YouTubers who were big 10 years ago who are still big today. Tech YouTubers have done well in like staying relevant and things. And so I often think about this as like, what exactly am I scared of? Because...

you know, the business is doing well, we're sufficiently profitable, et cetera. But I'm still like climbing, climbing the greasy pole of like subscriber count and like views and like revenue and all this sort of stuff. And there's gotta be a point at which it has to stop slash like take a step back and

So that's one side of me. But the other side is like, yeah, but it's really fun. And we're getting an office and we're hiring a team. And it's like, cool. And I actually, if I think about what I would find more fun, I think being in London and going to a WeWork every day feels to me more fun than like traveling would for now. And so I feel like in this season of my life, which is kind of like a hustle kind of season, while on the same, you know, doing Acura Yoga and playing PlayStation and stuff on the side to, you know, self-care. It feels like...

why not do the hustle thing for as long as it's fun and if it stops being fun then I'll reassess yeah so I don't know that's really valid too

Yeah. Yeah. And like, as you say, you know, you've got this whole new chapter ahead of you in London with a team and an office like that. So that's an adventure in itself. That's a huge change. I bet you've you've engineered your routine here. So that's going to be a huge change. Yeah. I feel like it hopefully should be fun. So you're having a big change in a couple of weeks, right? You're going to Berlin. Yes, I am. Although I've lived there before. I've studied there before, which is.

amazing because it's the first time in my degree that I'm going back to a city. So I feel like I already have, you know, some of my favorite places there. Yeah, it's just very exciting. How long were you there for last time? Four months. Okay. Two of which were in total lockdown. Okay. So really two months. Yeah, two months. And then this time around, how long is it for? Four months again. Okay. Four and a half months. Yeah. What's that like kind of being in a city for like four months at a time? I've never really done that.

Okay. It's so many things. It's a lot of emotions. Right. It's incredible. You find, like my concept of home has shifted a lot because...

Because you do find a home in this place. Like, I know I leave a piece of my heart wherever I go. I swear, like all these cities around the world. Yeah. And I don't know, I've kind of developed this routine of first month is going to be really tough. Everything is new. The language, the culture, the people, all of it is just like totally out of your comfort zone. Second month, things get a little bit easier. You're developing a routine. And then third month is just sweet spot. Like everything.

every life is just amazing. You found like it's like honeymoon, you know, you've got your routines, you understand this place. And then fourth month is still good. But like I'm learning to leave and leave it behind. So it's like bittersweet. Yes. So it's it's good. But then I also sometimes feel this lack of stability in moving a lot. OK, because it's you know, I get to experience these amazing places, but then I know it's always going to be for a short time. OK, is that

Because of the university thing keeping you moving. Okay. Do you think you'd, once you graduate, you'd want to continue the sort of traveling, living in a new place every four to six months sort of lifestyle? Or has it gone out of your system? So like...

Yeah. Yeah. Good question. I don't know if I'm honest. I think part of me wants stability and like friends in one place. Yeah. Yeah. But at the same time, it's so amazing. Like the whole slow travel thing where you live in a new place. You just learn so much about yourself really quickly. Like every place you go is so different. And like force is a different version of yourself, I feel. What do you mean you learn about yourself?

Okay, so for example, Berlin and Seoul, I think are two of the most different places you could be in. Like Berlin is like...

I don't know, so individualistic. As in like you're in the street. People don't care what they wear and I love it. People could just be like wearing a bin bag or wearing a suit and everyone will look at you exactly the same. People play their music super loud and that's just them living their life and people will sometimes just like dance in the street to the music and everything's just very free.

Whereas in Seoul, it's very respectful culture. You have to be a lot quieter and keep to yourself. It's got this collectivistic thing. And I never lived in a place I like either of those two. So in Berlin, it's sort of,

taught me I could, you know, take up more space and experiment with my fashion. And yeah, like that was a side of myself I got to explore. Whereas when I went to Korea, you know, you're on the bus and if you talk, people will look at you until you stop talking. So it's like, wow, I learned that, you know, I'm a lot louder than I always thought I was or that I enjoy conversations with strangers, which will never happen here because everyone will keep to themselves more because of the language differences.

So yeah, so you come out of the places having learned about how you would adapt to these situations and what aspects of your personality you like to express. And do you think there's like a minimum effective dose in terms of like length of time that you're in a place? Because I've been to Japan for a week at a time. I don't think I learned anything about myself in that time. But yeah, yeah.

For sure. I think you have to like live there. Yeah. Like commit to living there, not just like a holiday. I don't know if there's a minimum amount of time. I think three months you could probably do it. But I think four months really has been like a sweet spot for living in a city. Kind of, as I said, those phases that you go through in the months. I think two months is really just the exposure thing and figuring everything out. And then that third month is when you're feeling a bit better. Okay.

So a few minutes ago we were talking about the YouTube channel and you said that you're wondering whether YouTube is going to be your career two years from now when you graduate. How do you think about this concept of like career and this thing of like, because my view on this is that like, what does career even mean? It's like if you're a doctor, that's a career. If you're a lawyer, that's a career because it's like, oh, there's one thing that you're doing, kind of there's a clear progression.

But I feel like for you and for me, maybe like the word career doesn't feel quite right. How are you thinking about that kind of concept? That's so true. Yeah, career is definitely like an old time phrase, I think, where the assumption is, you know, you go to one company and you stay there for your lifetime and work up the hierarchy. But no, I feel like people have multiple careers in their life. That is the new definition of a career.

Yeah, I think just doing whatever feels right at that time job wise is probably the best thing. You know, I have friends right now who are graduating and going into random jobs that that's not going to be their long term career, but no doubt they're going to go there. They're going to learn a lot. They're going to learn what they do. They don't like they're going to meet people who can lead them on to other things. And I think that is what we should normalize as a career is just change.

just doing things and you know throwing what's the expression throwing something at a wall oh yeah throwing spaghetti at the wall throwing spaghetti at a wall yeah and just if you don't like the career you change and youtube is a is i guess a phase of our overall careers which will lead us on to other things yeah yeah that's a good point yeah i find that so

My mum is fairly old school in her approach to stuff, as I think a lot of parents are. And her whole thing is that, for me, that I should have a plan. And the fact that I change my mind every few months from what I want to do is signs that I'm a scatterbrained and don't have it clear, whatever, whatever. And it's like...

when I have conversations with her, it's like a part of me wonders, should I have more of a plan, like a clearer idea of where I want to be five years from now? Should I do an Odyssey plan and actually stick to it? Or, um, well,

Well, then the other half is like, oh, well, you know, I'll just do what's fun in the moment and what seems to roughly make sense and things will work out. So relatable. Yeah. I think there are some things you need a plan for. Like if you decide you want to be a doctor, that's something you've got to plan for. And from now to there, it's like a very clear trajectory. But yeah, I know recently I was making...

like a mood board for my life, like a vision board. Oh, okay. And this is really hard because I don't know what I want to do with my life. And I don't know where I want to live. Like all of these things are very hazy, but I still wanted to try and create like a vision board of some kind. And I was scrolling through Pinterest trying to be like, okay, like what resonates with me? I don't even know what to type in. And I think I was just trying to capture more of a feeling or a set of values that are kind of timeless in reality.

in what I want to, how I want to shape my life.

And the mood board is still in progress. But like right now, I love the flexibility I have in the fact that my job can be remote, you know, that you can do YouTube from anywhere. That's something I really value. I've been able to do it at university. I love the flexibility to sort of make a video on whatever I want to. And realizing those things about what I like now is probably going to be quite similar in five years and what I want from a career. So I find that useful. So what is a vision board?

Oh, it's just like a collection of images, phrases, words. Like you can do magazine clippings, but like digitally you can use Pinterest. Yeah. Yeah. And the idea is that you put it up and when you look at it, it gives you the feeling of the direction you want to go in. It's like a kind of like a source of motivation, but also like a hazy direction in pictures. Because you've talked in a few videos about like manifestation and stuff. Like what...

what is so i've read the secrets and i haven't read the secret okay cool and everyone everyone i've i've heard everyone i've i've heard speak about the secret does it in very like disparaging terms that like all this all this manifestation stuff is all like bs um but you like talk about it sincerely yeah or it seems to be like what is manifestation to you and how does it manifest in your life as it were um okay so to me it's kind of common sense okay

In a way, if you want something, you're going to have to say it out loud. You're going to have to take actions towards it. And you're also going to probably need a bit of luck because that's how life works.

And that's kind of common sense. You know, like if you want a certain job, if you want to be a doctor, you first got to decide that that's something you really want. You've got to be very specific, say, okay, I probably in the next five years, I'm going to have to apply for med school. I'm probably going to want to go to maybe this university. Then you can say it out loud. You can write it down. It becomes kind of a clearer thought.

And then you have to use, wait, let me say that again. Just through, yeah, like putting it down on paper, you're already thinking about actions of how you're gonna go towards that, where that's like working harder for certain grades. And then the element of luck

that I guess the law of attraction comes into you know you can call it synchronicity you can call it luck you can call it the universe you can call it whatever you want to but there's always an element of that okay um so the law of attraction is that to me it's you decide something and you get really clear on what it is you want and then you can also assist that thing with visualizations like the more you can picture yourself having that thing the more likely you are to have it just because you're going to shape your actions towards also getting it

So what would the visualization thing look like? Yeah. So I think this falls into a realm of meditation. For example, like closing your eyes. I think about this with an exam. Like the night before an exam, if you close your eyes and you picture yourself in the exam hall, most people, first thing you think of is stress. You know, you're like flicking through the paper. You've got no time. And you're kind of manifesting that version of you being stressed without you doing anything about it.

So in order for you to do the opposite, you'd have to visualize yourself being there, being calm, being rational, being focused and like, you know, feeling quite confident, kind of fake it till you make it. And the more that you picture that, imagine yourself in it, then the more likely you are to borrow from that visualization and naturally do it. So, yeah, it's kind of just imagining the best case scenario, but that makes you more likely to also do that scenario. Yeah.

Okay. Does that make sense? Yeah, it does. Um, I feel like I sometimes accidentally do this without realizing I'm doing this. Um, there was this guided meditation thing I did the other day, uh,

which was sort of about imagining your life some years in the future what does your house look like what the family look like what are you spending your time doing and before doing it i was like oh this is gonna be some stupid meditation thing yeah and then i and then and then i did it it was like 20 minutes and i was like oh wow i've just never spent any time thinking what could my life look like in the future and i had like a very specific sort of vision of what

what like my future house might look like. And, you know, it was like, oh, you know, in this vision, like, you know, the wife is tucking the two kids into bed. There's like a third one on the way. We've got a little fireplace. I've got like my little desk in the corner that has like an iMac on it or whatever. It's like a guitar. I've been playing the guitar. It's like a dog. And it's like, oh, this is kind of nice. And since doing that, like last week, I have been thinking back to that and thinking, oh, I wonder what sort of dog I want. Like, it's just like just random, like,

I very rarely think what sort of dog do I want in the future. But the fact that I had, I did that visualization thing is now like a thing where I feel like, oh yeah, I'm definitely going to get a dog in the future. It's obviously going to happen. That's so cool. And so, I don't know. I feel like I want to do more in the way of like this sort of vision boarding type stuff. That's awesome. I haven't really got around to doing that. Yeah. That's basically what the law of attraction is, or at least the way I think about it. It's just getting clear on your vision for your life, which we don't do enough.

And I don't, I'm not clear on that. But as soon as, you know, you start to have an idea, it does sort of work its way into your mind more and then you're more likely to make it happen. Would you be open to sharing some of the things in your vision board? Or is it like a private thing? It's kind of private because I don't know. Like if this is actually what I want. No, fair enough. Have you found the manifesting stuff helping another aspect of life as well?

Like in, yeah, I think in terms of confidence. Oh, okay. As in like you imagine yourself as being more confident. Exactly. You are more confident. Yeah. That makes a lot of sense. Yeah. Right? Like again, think until you make it. Yeah.

Okay. Or even, for example, with the book, like when I was writing this book, when I had to go down and sit down and, you know, was dreading the writing process, visualizing myself as someone who had written the book, who had finished it and was receiving a nice review from someone about how it helped them, but not in like a stressful way, just like, oh, you know, that was, this was clearly helpful to them. Things like that, you know, it just, it helps you then find that motivation to sit down and write. Okay. That's very interesting.

And do you do this like actively? Do you have like a slot in your calendar for like manifesting time? How does it work within your life? Because I have a solid routine of meditation, some of those meditations I choose to do on that day could be in the realm of manifestation. Okay, you type in manifestation meditation on YouTube and someone will give you a guided tour. Exactly. Oh, okay. Yeah. So I guess that must have been that thing that I did the other day, which is just like someone talking to you like...

Close your eyes, imagine yourself five years from now. Think about the sounds, think about the feelings, that kind of stuff. And you can just imagine if you did that meditation every day, like every day you'd sort of add to that vision, right? Oh yeah, yeah, definitely. You're like, oh, I have a dog and like, oh, I'm starting to see like a poodle, you know? Like, would I like a poodle? And the next day you do the meditation, you're like, actually no, it's like golden retriever, yeah. Okay, that's interesting. Because I guess in my head, meditation is like you sit there doing nothing for...

I think most people think that. There's so many different types. Visualizations, meditations. There are like breathing frameworks. Just being present and hearing everything around you. Engaging with your senses. There's loads. And you don't need to... I guess, again, when it comes to meditation, I think I overthink it. And like, I need to find the perfect path. Whereas it sounds like what you're doing is just like type in some random meditation on YouTube depending on what you're feeling and just go for it. Exactly. And that's like obviously...

Good for you. Yeah. And because I know that the practice of meditation generally is good. It doesn't really matter what it is. Like just closing my eyes and like forcing myself to breathe for like five to 10 minutes. I'm showing up like I'm doing the work. You know, it doesn't need to be like the perfect meditation every day. And if I like it, I can do it again. Sick.

That is very cool. I'm going to turn to our Instagram audience now for some potentially rapid-firey type questions. The questions are going to be rapid, but the answers don't necessarily have to be. I'd love for you to expand on stuff if you like. Oh, wonderful. We have categories as well. What is hashtag casual magic?

Oh, okay. So casual magic is a concept that I've been practicing for the last few years. The idea is that not every day is going to be your wedding day or your anniversary, your birthday, or like an objectively exciting day. But that means that like, I don't know, the rest of your life, that like 99.9% of your life is just

boring or you don't frame it in a way that has that much meaning or gives you that much happiness. So the idea of casual magic is every day finding something really casual in your mundane life that you find magic in. So for example, the way that the lights coming into the room is really beautiful or I don't know, just like having a nice tea and just like actively noticing to yourself like this is a nice moment.

Like it's really casual, but a little bit magic. And after reading so many books on happiness, that's sort of one of the things I found is it's all about how you personally find meaning. So trying to find meaning every day. So wholesome, man. People find that so cringy, but I just... It's not cringy at all. It's great. What's your casual magic today? My casual magic today? Something little that you're grateful for. Something little that I'm grateful for.

I really like these bulbs. We put these like these like little fairy light type things up yesterday because we were having a goodbye leaving party for Sheen.

And I think it's just a great vibe. Yeah. Add a good vibe to the room so I'm going to keep them. Love it. Yeah, I think like I had a few friends whose bedrooms had that sort of like lighting type stuff in them. I always used to think, oh, this is really cozy and nice. I just never thought that I could... It was part of your aesthetic. Yeah. But now I think it'll be part of the aesthetic. Love it. What advice would you give Ali about writing a book? Oh...

Apart from all the stuff we've already talked about. I was going to say, we've had a little bit of chat about that. Stop overthinking it, firstly.

flesh out those ideas before sharing them with other people like sit with yourself and write them and thirdly find your space your like sanctity of space around a moment a place a cafe something like that that's just yours don't bring any of your writing people there okay right yeah sanctity of space that's a nice phrase is that one that you've invented yes nice that's good that's that's a good way of framing it um ardish says how did you name the chapters of your book

oh good question um i don't know i just i thought about it and then yeah they're fairly like they're quite basic aren't they how we learn study methods yeah it's time for timetables oh nice thanks that's good probably the best one mental health the night before an exam ready for battle ready for battle you're gonna have one dramatic it's gonna be done yeah i mean like the title plus that chapter um uh anjara says what's your favorite book this

Yeah. The only study kind you ever did. Link in the video description. I think Atomic Habits has really shaped my life in a positive way. Or The 4-Hour Workweek was one of the first business-y books I ever read. Oh, yeah. One concept that really stuck with me was the idea of the mini retirement in 4-Hour Workweek. Yeah, I'd say The 4-Hour Workweek has just been really good. What's the mini retirement thing for the unborn?

unfamiliar oh yeah um so it's the idea that you know generally we wait till retirement to enjoy our lives or do all these things like go traveling um and tim ferris he has a mini retirement every year where you know you can take like a month and do exciting things you can go traveling rather than waiting your whole life to finish your work you can like work your whole life and have the retirements in between

Yeah. We're, we're trying to sort of do this concept within our team whereby, uh, every six or seven weeks we have, we all take a sabbatical for a week, uh, where like no work gets done. We publish like one video, which has been pre-scheduled and stuff. Uh,

And no one's allowed to do any work. They kind of really, really want to, but it's like, you know, encouraging people to take a break. Do you actually not do work during that time? So far we've done it for one week, whereby it was basically 100% work from mine and Agnes' part. I feel like some of the rest of the team actually took some time off. Okay. But one of my friends has been doing the sabbatical thing for the last like seven years. He says it takes you a few rounds to actually get into the habit of not doing any work for a week. Yeah. But I'm hoping it'll happen at some point.

Okay, StudyMad says, what did you like and dislike most about your book writing journey?

Oh, like the most is when I read back a paragraph or something. I just had this feeling of this is good. But that doesn't happen often. You know, this is actually something of value. Or when you're really overthinking how you want to say something or like, for example, mental health. I talk about in the book and I came up with this metaphor about how mental health is like the weather.

And when I hit that, I was like, oh, this makes so much sense to me. And I think this could really help people. Why is mental health like the weather? Oh, okay. So it's...

if you think in the UK every day you wake up and the weather's different you don't know how it's going to be sometimes it's good sometimes it's bad but either way you've got to get on with your day the weather doesn't define the day it doesn't define how you are even though it can change how it is but you know it's a universally recognized thing that we have weather and it's going to change and mental health from that perspective is the same like every day your mind is going to be a

you know you're feeling under the weather. Oh, there we go. So many levels. Yeah and it doesn't define you it's just you know your mind that day might be feeling a bit worse and you just have to observe it and you know if it's raining outside you pack an umbrella but often if you're not feeling good one day you don't do anything for it you know you don't like you don't do a meditation or take time for yourself like you might do to protect yourself from the weather

Yeah, and then one thing I kind of went on to talk about is in the UK we talk about the weather a lot but we never talk about mental health. So it's this paradox, you know, why can't we turn mental health into something that's talked about and checked on just like the weather is. How do you notice how you're feeling? Yeah, so this is something I talk about in the book is developing a practice of some kind which is you checking in. So that could be journaling which

which can feel like a lot of friction at the start, but it's an amazing habit to get into. You know, just like brain dumping how you feel or just thoughts in your head. And as you write like stream of consciousness and you read it back, you can often get a gist of how you're feeling, especially when you compare it. Um, or meditation, even just closing your eyes for one minute and just stopping all the distractions. That's checking in for me. How are you feeling right now? Yeah, this is a good question. How am I feeling right now? Um,

Can I just say, this is something I've been realizing this year. Boys and men, oh my God, I feel like they dread the question, how are you feeling right now? No one can answer it. Why can't you answer it? Okay, so the reason I can't answer it is because, so I've been thinking about this genre of stuff a lot in the last few weeks to months.

I think I never take the time to think about how I'm feeling. And therefore, when asked, how are you feeling? Like literally the only word that comes to mind is good or great. Yeah, that's so unsatisfying. But apparently the thing that you do is get into the habit of not using those words and like elaborating more on what it feels like. And I just don't do that. And therefore it just feels unnatural and weird. And like, I'm sort of making stuff up. Um,

How are you feeling right now? Like, how would you describe your, yeah. - Okay. I think a little bit self-conscious if I'm honest. - Oh, okay. - Because I'm like aware that there's loads of cameras and that anything I can say is gonna be used like probably and I'm gonna stumble and I'm not in control of the editing process. So like, yeah, a little bit self-conscious but at the same time relaxed, like it's a nice environment here. - Okay, that's reasonable.

that's better than that good yeah decent it's all right um yeah i've i've so i've been i've been uh reading stuff about this this this sort of thing uh people say that you should kind of ask yourself what what your body is feeling right now and then the more you do that the more you'll get used to being like oh that feeling when my stomach is a little bit like weird i i would label it yeah or something like that um

How about have a go? So I actually had this a few days ago. So I was out to dinner with someone and then on the way back to the car, realized that my bags had been stolen from the car. And I was tracking them and like find my, because I had Apple AirTag on it. I was like, why am I, wallet's over there, backpack's over there, the car's over there. And I had this kind of,

weird feeling in the pit of my stomach and I realized that oh this is like a feeling of anxiety of like is my car still there have they still in the car because they've got the wallet and the wallet has kind of car keys in it and so on and so on and then I was like damn I almost never feel this feeling and then I was like damn I've got friends who actually have anxiety and they feel this all the time oh my god that's awful so that was like the thought process for this

Because that was a very specific kind of bodily feeling that I could identify as being anxiety. Like right now, the feeling that I have is I am happy slash glad slash like enjoying this conversation. I think it's been really nice. There's a part of me that's self-conscious because I know that every time I'm on camera, I sweat. And so I'm trying not to let the pit stains show on the camera and all that kind of stuff. I'm also feeling a bit like, I don't know how I describe it, but like, um,

given that I am quote the interviewer in this sort of trying to stay one step ahead of where the conversation is going and thinking okay where are we getting to next while at the same time thinking that you're doing a great job of like maintaining eye contact and being like very engaging and so if I'm half in my mind about where's the conversation going next maybe my I

I'm coming across as less interested than I actually am because I'm having a great time internally. I thought you were completely bored. Oh, well, um, and then at the same time, like, because the camera's on it and I have like a resting board face, I've been told it's like, you know, like I,

I did an interview the other day and I was watching back myself and I was like, why do I look like I'm having the worst time? Because I was having a great time. And so I was like, let me like make my face sort of into a more like interested kind of face, which is not my default kind of face. I feel like I've actually noticed you doing that during this conversation. Oh, really? Yeah. Because I was actively thinking about this. Like, I don't want to look my...

because my default face is like this yeah I feel like you I've had moments during this conversation where I thought you notice yeah that you look bored yeah and then you like actively try and be like yeah cute like happy chappy I'm like oh like it's cute I thought you're like actively trying to listen I'm actively trying to it's nice it's like even when I'm looking bored I'm actively listening but I'm just like looking at this which people tell me do I go on yeah what did I say yeah that's how I'm feeling right now hmm

That's a good answer. Is that reasonable? Better than good, yeah. Okay, good. What was the question for that one? I don't remember. What did you dislike about the book writing journey? I don't know how we got onto that, but great. Okay, Ranim says, don't you think that each student should have his own study guide according to his skills and potential and not just one standard guide for everyone?

Controversial. Controversial. Yeah. So I was actually having a conversation this morning about how, you know, the whole, when students often ask teachers, oh, how should I revise? The teacher says, whatever works for you. And to an extent, yes. But also what works for humans is also going to be good for you. So.

So that's what I would say to revision methods is that there is science behind this stuff. There's techniques which will work for you. And just because you haven't tried them yet doesn't mean they won't. So while you might enjoy certain techniques more,

at the end of the day you know try these ones they they work and i think the bit which is obviously just me sharing my experience is the stuff on mental health the stuff in perfectionism and i'm very open that that doesn't represent everyone and their experiences um yeah so if you want to write your own study guide i'm so happy go ahead i feel like it's kind of the same as like working out in that yes everyone's metabolism is different different genes but like you know

if you follow the principles of like you know eat at a calorie surplus eat protein and aggressive overload you will just get more hench and then all the rest is kind of details like who cares whereas with studying you follow the principles of like space reputation active recall taking care of your mental health etc etc you're gonna do okay you're gonna do all right yeah it'll be good um

Azar says, does your book talk about imposter syndrome? Is it backed up by science experience or anything like that? I don't actually talk about imposter syndrome. I think I very lightly touch on it. The last chapter is kind of a more general chapter because it's

It's about the future. So I thought, you know, my whole book is about studying, but so much of what you're studying is what you're studying for. And that is often the future. And I talk about odyssey plans and things which help me because part of my motivation was thinking about that future. And if you don't have a direction of where you're going, it's important to have that. Yeah. So imposter syndrome is something I touched on in that chapter. Yeah.

but was mainly backed up by my experience, not a fair play. What is the Odyssey plan for the uninitiated? Oh, the Odyssey plan. Oh yeah, this is so cute as well. I still remember, I think this is one of the first videos of mine that you commented on. Oh yeah. Yeah, I made a video about Odyssey plans and Ali was just like, oh, this is really great. I was like, oh, thank you. That's just really nice. Thanks. Yes, so it's a really useful framework. I think it was designed by Yale University

Was it Yale, Stanford? Stanford. Stanford. Yeah. Yeah. So Stanford University used this to help students work out what they want to do with their lives. And the idea is that you create different versions of how your life could go. So if you were to go exactly on this current path you're on, studying what you're studying, how would your life look in five years? So if you're studying medicine, you're probably going to be a doctor or junior doctor.

Yeah, and then you do a second Odyssey plan, which is what if you picked an alternative path? What if you decided to study something you're considering but not doing right now? How could your life look? And then lastly, you imagine if societal expectations didn't matter, money didn't matter, how would your life look in five years? What would you be doing? And then when you sit back, you can take some elements from this life that you would have if nothing else mattered and sort of put that into the life that you're actually going to have.

Yeah. So I first saw your video on this, I think end of 2019-ish. Yeah. And it like genuinely shaped sort of the things that I was doing with my life from that point onwards because I just never thought of it in that way before. What does, like, how often do you do this? Like, what is your like five-year Odyssey plan kind of thing look like? Yeah.

I don't do it overly consistently. I think part of it comes into the whole manifestation thing that we were talking about is being aware of things you'd like to attract into your life. But right now, I know that during university, I've changed so much already. Like from first year to now, how I view YouTube, how I am as a person, how I view the world after traveling. It's just constantly changing such that I...

don't have a very consistent five-year plan and that's fine with me so I think this is something I'm going to revisit in like final year when I'm you know closer to that stage but right now I'm just enjoying my life let me enjoy my life Ali it's all good

We've got Mutt who says, how do I get a copy of the book? Oh, okay. So you can get it on any UK book retailers. So WH Smith, Waterstones or Amazon. Oh, is it UK only? Currently, yes. Oh, interesting. Yeah. Why didn't you go for international? It's something that I'd like to do, but the publisher I'm with is like a medium-sized publisher. So it's kind of like testing it out in the UK. Yeah, it's done pretty well in the UK. It's done really well.

done really well yeah probably gonna get america international the whole shebang yeah that's something we're in discussion about which is really cool very exciting wow um so you're gonna be an international bestseller i mean let's manifest it exactly um okay uh lsv says what's your most useful advice for someone going to uni this september other than to get the book oh yeah definitely get the book yeah of course it's gonna happen okay i would say

that uni is a good time to be messy, to like work out so many things about your life. I think rather than going in and like overly planning every minute of your life at uni, I would say try things. I'd say, you know, like make friends, learn about relationships, learn about how you learn, learn about the subjects you like, join clubs, just do your best to go out of your comfort zone. Cause I think that's, that's the best thing that uni is for. It's like,

these few years of buying you time from the rest of the world. So yes, study hard, but also...

I don't know try stuff out I don't know I'd probably give the same advice for people who've just graduated uni as well like I think we think of uni as being the time where you should be messy but actually all of your 20s are reasonable time reasonable time to be messy a lot of people even say into your early 30s you don't really need to have stuff figured out um you need to start figuring stuff out once you have like a family and kids to support yeah but until then like okay it's just to kind of do stuff I need to take the advice better myself um

What helped motivate you to study the most during A-levels? Ooh, so many things. One thing, I think firstly, I really loved learning and I really value learning. So that was like kind of an intrinsic motivation to get me to want to do well is because I wanted to learn. But secondly, I wanted to get into a good university. So that was like a really, really good motivator. Of course. Boring, but.

So we've got a few questions about productivity and then a few questions about life to close things off. So Pripra25 says, how has your relationship with productivity changed over the last few years? So much. I used to overly care. Well, we're defining productivity in the like toxic hustle culture. Yeah. Economic output. Economic output productivity. Yeah. I was that typical, cared too much about grades, all A star person at school. My life was just studying and,

And yeah, I felt very guilty for taking time off. And I think that was also how I felt about the algorithm back then. Oh, yeah. Yeah. You know, if I take time off from the algorithm, it's not going to be good. And I think I just have a much healthier relationship to grades, learning. Yeah. Like I redefined productivity in what we were saying earlier. And...

I don't know. Just find more enjoyment in life. Nice. Yeah. So rambly. Natasha says, how do you stay focused on your goals?

Ooh, breaking them down into many smaller sub goals. It's really hard to stay committed to one thing unless you make it tangible. Yeah, definitely. And angst05 says, what would you say keeps you motivated to wake up early every day? What time do you wake up? It depends. I have at least one day a week where I wake up at 5am. Bloody hell. Because it's just, I don't know. It's like my reset day. In summer it changes because I have the flexibility. But yeah, yeah.

What makes me wake up early? I feel better. I just feel good. When I wake up early, it's like I have a longer day. I'm more productive. I'm less likely to do the thing where I just stay in bed and watch YouTube and go down a rabbit hole and feel bad. Yeah. So do you wake up early...

how do you balance the sort of need for eight hours of sleep with a desire to wake up early i never have less than eight hours sleep or less than seven hours sleep like i really sleep matters to me okay um so on days you wake up at 5am you're sleeping i just sleep early oh okay yeah so it's not a decision you make in the morning it's a decision you make at night it's definitely a decision oh okay sure because i've always tried doing it as a decision i make in the morning and it never works come

no oh my god morning start at night for sure you know what i was saying like if i want to do a yoga video tomorrow putting it on my youtube screen that night and then going to bed knowing that i just roll out of bed when i've got no motivation it's just there and you just click it on and you just do the thing you just do it yeah okay morning starts at night it's good advice

And now a few questions about life. So Alva says, how have your aspirations changed since after your A-levels? I think I was always five-year plan person, have everything defined, go from point to point to point. And now I'm a lot more in the present. My aspirations are...

to just enjoy myself and learn about myself through, you know, friendships, relationships. Like, I don't know, say there's like a drama show, like a theater performance or something that my friend wants me to go to, you know, in the past I might've said no, because I was going to do some, something related to my goals that evening, but being more flexible now in saying, let's, you know, Jade, this is valuable too. Let's enjoy that. That's interesting. Yeah.

I'm thinking back because I feel like when I was at school and university, for me, the work stuff was always the lowest thing on the priority list. And so if there was ever like a so like I made it a point when I when I got to university that I was never going to say no to a social event for the sake of work. Yeah. Yeah.

And then that actually worked surprisingly well. The thing that that ended up cutting out of my life was watching TV by myself. So when work became my default activity rather than watching TV by myself, suddenly I had time to do all the things I wanted to and also like keep up with work, but just not watch TV by myself. Yeah. And how much did you miss it for watching TV by yourself? Zero. There you go. Occasionally people are like, oh my God, you've never seen The Office? And I'm like, I know, I haven't.

okay Zahid says oh how do you get over public criticism oh god that's a tough one what sort of public criticism do you get

I can't imagine you get much public criticism. That's criticism. What's it look like? Apart from you look like a horse or whatever. Oh, no. For example, I had a lot of people criticizing me for studying abroad during the pandemic. Oh, really? Yeah. A lot of people saying, why are you going to Korea? And I think it's hard when I see criticism having a valid point. That's when I really struggle with it because...

I'm like, wow, like, you know, sort of questioning moral decisions. - Yeah, I've never really thought about that. Why did you go to Korea? - Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so that was quite hard because it's part of my degree, you know, all my friends are going to, it's something that I sort of predefined and that the pandemic was doing well in, doing well, like it wasn't as bad in Korea.

And that was honestly a really hard time for me when I got that criticism because I was in quarantine in South Korea alone, like in this room, just with the world's criticism about me going to Korea. Yeah, and it made me really like doubt my decision to go. But then now that I look back,

like would i have preferred to to stay at home in lockdown um doing doing uni with the time difference of like 10 hours uh when i could have gone as part of my degree like i think a lot of people in the same situation would have gone too yeah and if you're quarantining it's like and it's safe like it's just it's literally fine um

But yeah, I think it's hard. I think it's just like being like coming back to why you make choices and as long as it's valid to you in your life then like the criticism is fine. Yeah. Okay. Fair play. So would you say your main criticism is the toxic productivity stuff or do you also get criticism on other things? The toxic productivity stuff and recently because I've appeared in a bunch of Sheen's videos, I did a couple of videos with Elizabeth.

There was a lot of criticism that, oh wow, Ali's a real arrogant narcissistic prick in these videos and like he doesn't even look at them when he's speaking to them, he looks at the camera instead, what a dick. And stuff like, oh, the way he was coming across was so condescending, you can clearly tell that he doesn't have a respect for them. And a lot of like little things which people in the comments were... Does this affect you? Yeah, it really did. People in the comments were like psychoanalyzing the hell out of this like minor thing.

And then to a point where I was like, maybe they have got a point. Like, I don't feel any of these feelings that they're describing that I'm feeling, but maybe it's subconscious. Maybe it's like, maybe I am just coming across as like a- Because you like convince yourself, right? When these comments are so well written and there's multiple of them. Yeah. And that's the thing, because how you come across-

it's it's so subjective it's so subjective they don't know you and your relationship with these people it's like you know you could just judge from like this little video you're watching right now everything about us as people yeah and then when you're reading it you like extrapolate it to yourself maybe that's true is this how it comes across with other people as well it's just like you know have my friends think this way there's a why this thing of like how do i look when i'm i'm listening to someone rather than when i'm speaking is like really in my mind of like

I need to not look as if I'm bored because then people are going to be like, oh, I was clearly bored during this. When I was doing those like remote deep dives, like the one we did, because I'd have the webcam above me and I'd be looking at the comments, my eyes would always be pointing downwards and the comments would be like, Ali, stop looking bored, pay attention. I'd be like, oh, you have no idea what it's like running a live stream with comments floating around, all this kind of stuff. But to someone's

When someone's watching that, it genuinely does look like I bought. And so it's all this sort of stuff that kind of got to me because it did have a point. And especially like the way we come across this, it is actually someone's subjective perspective. But yeah, it's also when it touches on an insecurity, you know, and they don't know necessarily there's insecurity for you, but those comments stay in your head. And especially when they like start to shape your behavior or how you do things in future videos, like...

Yeah, man. The internet's horrible. Be kind. Yeah. What can you do? All right. We've got three more. Kieran says, what does a perfect day look like to you? Oh, my gosh.

Okay, I would do my morning routine because I love my routine that sets up a perfect day for me So I would do my yoga my meditation Preferably outside in nature with some beautiful weather I'd have my porridge because I just genuinely really like that breakfast and then I think I would spend half the day alone and half the day with friends half the day like walking

or I don't know just in nature on my own I feel amazing and then on the beach with friends and then you know like when you're looking at the stars having deep chats oh love that that's a perfect day fireside chats what about you mine would be get up

do some kind of writing, journaling-y type thing in the morning, then do some sort of like sports things, maybe tennis with friends or like a squash lesson or... I was actually thinking about this when I was like genuinely trying to plan out my life in London, like what does my perfect day look like?

And I was thinking, okay, so after the tennis lesson, it's nine o'clock, go to the office slash co-working space to hang out with the team, have a few like content brainstorm sessions and stuff. And then in the afternoon, probably do one of these sorts of podcast interviews because I really like doing these because you can like really go deep, which normally, I don't know, there's something weird about having microphones in front of you that like,

encourages people to elaborate more on their thoughts than they would feel comfortable doing in real life so I really like that then I would do some sort of other activity probably 5 6 p.m and then do dinner with friends um followed by maybe board games with friends and then like have like an hour of reading in bed before that's lovely that would be a pretty sick routine and achieve I can make that happen yeah it's like very doable like how lucky you know that you can shape your life around what a perfect day looks like yeah it's insane awesome like 100 um vb privileged

Okay. Rugmini says, how can one accept failure and move on in life? I think time firstly is just amazing for accepting anything. I bring back my classic Oxford rejection, which if you guys don't know, I was rejected from Oxford University. And that was really tough for me at that time. But now that I look back,

I'm so happy with my life, you know. I think, again, reframing what failure is. Failure is just productive. It's, you know, it's going on for like future success. It's just something you can learn from. And yeah, I think seeing it like almost like zooming out, imagining yourself and then physically zooming out to see everything, your whole life, the entirety of the world. And then seeing this tiny thing that you've done is just really insignificant.

very nice um and the final one we've got from instagram is uh from rohan who says describe life in three words oh my god i hate questions like this i'm just thinking how the hell do you describe life in three words life in three words oh my god hmm uh fluctuating okay that's a good one you have to contribute one now okay

Oh no, can I change it? Full of potential. Full of potential? Yes. Oh, okay. Three words, full of potential. Full of potential, nice. Potential for good, potential for bad, potential for amazing, incredible things. Just full of potential, that's what life is. Fantastic.

Great stuff. That seems like a good place to leave things. Thank you for coming on the podcast. Thank you so much for having me. We don't quite have a name yet. I think we're thinking of calling it Deep Dive, which was the name that the old version was. Yeah, I remember people voting on it. Yeah. Going to get people to like design some logos for it and stuff. But this has been great. Guys, everyone get the book link in the video description if you want to check it out. And do you have like an email list or something for people in international? Actually, I don't. Okay. No.

We'll put a Google form or something. You can put your email address in if you want to find out more about this or something. Yeah, no, that's cool. Yeah, something like that. But yeah, thanks for coming on. And thanks for listening, everyone. And we'll see you later. That's it for this week's episode of Deep Dive. Thank you so much for listening. Do check out Jade's stuff. There'll be a link to her YouTube channel and a link to her book

in the video description or rather in the show notes. I really need to get better at this podcast thing. If you like this episode, please do leave a review on Apple Podcasts and don't forget to subscribe to the Deep Dive YouTube channel where you can watch the in-person interview and our Deep Dive Clips channel where you can see clips of the podcast if you're more interested in bite-sized chunks of audio. So as always, thank you so much for listening. Have a great day and always remember, journey before destination. Goodbye.