Jill Williams: Advice for Clients Facing Unexpected Retirement
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Welcome to Barron's The Way Forward. I'm Greg Bartalus, and my special guest is Jill Williams, an Ameriprise private wealth advisor and CEO of Nexus Wealth Management.

Today, she will be discussing how advisors can help clients navigate the uncertainties of retirement, and more specifically, retirement when it's unexpected. Welcome to the podcast. Thank you so much, Greg. It's great to be here. Tell us a little about yourself. You have a fascinating past, and tell us about your practice, and then let's delve into this topic, which is remarkably important. I think it doesn't get enough attention, so you're an ideal person to talk to about. Thanks so much.

So my practice is in Montclair, New Jersey, and I lead a team of six. I've been in the industry 21 years. It's a second career for me, and I'll get into that and how that occurred. But I manage 300 plus million and have between 200 and 300 clients. And comprehensive financial planning is central to everything that we do.

and just loving this second career of mine, began actually in New York City. And I grew up in Oklahoma and found myself with a performing arts degree in music. And I moved to New York to pursue a career on Broadway, which I did for 15 years and loved that career.

But like so many, found myself with another show ending. And I was a single mom at the time. And so began to think about what I would do for my second act.

And so many, I think, find themselves in that position. And like so many women leaned into my network of friends and contacts. And one of them was an executive at a financial services company, a Fortune 500 company. And I said, you know,

Is there anything that you can imagine I could do in your world? And that was really the beginning of it. And so I transitioned and... What did she say? I mean, what was that? Yeah. So she said, I think you would be great in financial services. And I said, so say more. And she talked about becoming a financial advisor.

And so even though I was 15 years into something that seems completely unrelated, it prepared me completely for what I do now as a financial advisor. And how so? Yeah.

Yeah, so just a lot of transferable skills. You know, the discipline that's required to work in entertainment and on Broadway with eight shows a week. The show always goes on regardless the circumstance. So there was just a lot of rejection. You know, there were about 25 no's to every yes.

Always putting yourself on the line and auditioning and, you know, sometimes getting an offer, but many times not. Every show closing, but really learning how to listen.

how to remain composed, how to develop confidence in the face of fear and disappointment. All of those things prepared me for what I do now. And the discipline of that work ethic and knowing that I was smart enough to learn anything, that I would outwork my peers and just do what was required to be successful. I was particularly motivated because I was a single mom as well.

And I was an artist who was never willing to starve. And many are, but I wasn't. Right. So those transferable skills served me really well. Did you have an epiphany of sorts? Were you like, yes, this is for me? Or was it a gradual warming that blossomed into a career? How would you characterize it? Yeah, great question. So waking up every day with optimism and tenacity and grit and

And that was so important to me. So I never looked beyond every day. Every day I had a choice how I, you know, approached that day. And so it was really just always being very resourceful and understanding my limits as well as my strengths. And so where I had limits, I

I would be resourceful. I found myself, you know, partnering with others who knew more than I could possibly know because it just takes time in this industry. There's so much to know and the learning never ends.

So one last question about your first career before we segue to the topic at hand. What are some of the shows and musicals? And I'm curious, were you in Oklahoma given that you were from Oklahoma? Right. Yes, I was. You were? I did a national tour of Oklahoma with John Davidson. That kind of gives you an idea of how old I am. Right.

Yes. So being from Oklahoma and I did that show more probably than any other show that I did. You had immediate street cred if you will, right? Yes, exactly. I knew the lyrics to that state song. Awesome. And so the last show I did was Andrew Lloyd Webber, Music of the Night.

with Colm Wilkinson and Betty Buckley. I did The Secret Garden for a couple of years. I did A Chorus Line, Romance, Romance, Chess. Forbidden Broadway was my first show in New York. And so always musicals and singing and dancing.

But I loved that career. I just, you know, it's very difficult for it to be sustainable. Sure, sure. And the uncertainty, you know, the certainty of uncertainty is so prevalent. Right. And did you have a favorite, all-time favorite performance that you were in? Probably The Secret Garden. The Secret Garden? Yeah, just a beautiful show. Let's talk about Unexpected Retirement. Tell me just high level, for especially advisors or anyone listening, what's

What do they need to know? What are some of the most common ways this happens? Like, just get the ball rolling and yeah. You know, I'll give you an example of a client that I'm working with now who is in your industry.

And there, I probably don't have to tell you, there's been a secular decline in media. And so I have clients at Paramount and at CNN and Charter Communications. And, you know, we're having conversations around the question that gets raised in A Chorus Line, one of the shows that I did, which is, what would you do if you couldn't dance? Right.

So I think as an advisor, being able to have these conversations that are about more than just a balance sheet and cash flow and all the considerations that come into play as it pertains to financial security. It's really understanding what do you love? What are you great at?

Where do you have access to resources? And who is your network? What would you do if you couldn't do this? And how are we best prepared for that uncertainty? So it's quantifying their data, guiding them through that process of comprehensive financial planning and understanding where

what, you know, worst case scenario looks like and how they're going to navigate it. Gotcha. So for many people, let's say there's a baseline of your average worker, if you will, and there are certain assumptions, right? Like I will retire, let's say 65, you know, whatever your assumptions are for this profile, um,

I guess you're to some extent, when it comes to the numbers, maybe being super conservative, maybe right in dialing back numbers, making bigger assumptions of what you'll need and perhaps sooner. Absolutely, yes. The modeling that we can do as guides, the tools that we have with which to do that.

And then the nuances and the psychology around it all, right? So it's really helping people understand how to over-prepare for the uncertainties. So when you talk – the psychology I'm curious about. So that's really interesting. Now, do – I'm curious to generalize. Do people – when you say to this kind of person like, hey, you're going to have to be more conservative in your assumptions –

Do they generally resent that reality or do they embrace it knowing that it provides more of a buffer or a cushion, if you will, for them financially? Like what's their relation when they hear that message?

Sure. Well, of course, everyone is unique in how they hear the message and how they process it and the action that they take around it. And sometimes it doesn't happen overnight. It happens over time. And so it's really just ensuring that you are creating a safe space for

for them to look at that worst case. And a lot of times when you help people understand that data is black and white and that let's start there and I can show them what it looks like in terms of the worst case and that we get through that and let's talk through that. Where do you have wiggle room? Where do you have discretion?

What is fixed, you know, around cash flow and around the limits of your balance sheet. And let's start thinking about being more aggressive with the saving that we're doing. Let's think about being more conservative with your buckets of money and what we have where, anticipating what may occur.

Yeah, and I'd imagine that the modeling can be tricky because you have, on the one hand, a need to be more conservative, directionally speaking. However, given that inflation is a kind of a, you know, it's relative, the amount, but it's part of the permanent background. So then historically, stocks are a great way to compensate for inflation. But

Stocks also add more risk, right? So there's that whole balancing act. Yeah. I mean, balance is everything. And so my philosophy, as are many advisors, three buckets of money.

and all tied to different time horizons and purposes. So just making sure that you are diversified in every way, that you're tax diversified, that your asset allocation is such that it's tied to your comfort level with volatility and risk and all the traditional approaches to balance. But balance is key. I look at this kind of in two ways.

two profiles, if you will. One is someone, let's say, who's in a career where there is a lot of structural instability, if you will. So, for example, working on Broadway. Sure. Journalism increasingly. Athletics. Yeah, exactly. So a lot of these are very lumpy and uncertain. And then the other profile, if you will, are people who

are perhaps not in one of those professions, one that is seen as stable, like, you know, might be an accountant or whatever, but then suddenly they're struck with some, you know, uh,

calamity or major thing, be it a layoff, a health issue, et cetera, an out-of-the-blue expense, right? Let's focus a little on the latter for those people who think or perhaps are doing fine, then all of a sudden their financial reality changes swiftly. Oh,

Hopefully they will have been plugged into an advisor already who has helped them prepare for that moment, but that doesn't always happen. Sometimes I will get referred to

to a prospective client who is in this situation and has just found themselves at a certain age, all of a sudden out of, you know, a really high paying job. And they've always had stability like you described and all of a sudden they don't. So that, you know, that just requires immediate attention to cash flow,

someone's burn rate, what is their spend, what is required to live their life. And you start there, you just roll up your sleeves. And I will say back to the psychology, it's so important

for me to instill a sense of hope and optimism because it's hard enough to overcome the things that you can't control. So the things that you can control, let's just be positive, let's be proactive in how we're addressing them. What can you change today to make it work without digging a hole?

with debt, et cetera. So, you know, how can you monetize what you have? How can you better leverage benefits that are available to you? There are so many things that are unique to each person, but it's really just making sure that they understand there is a way out.

and you're going to help them find it. And that's something that I love more than anything about what I do. It's one thing to have a plan perfectly in place and it's coasting along. It's another thing...

to really be able to have an impact in someone's life and around the things that matter most to them, which is financial security, their family, whether it's providing, whether it's being a good partner, whether it's holding up their end, whether it's they've identified with the job that they have. So many people are

are tied to their work as their identity. So you have to always be having that conversation. What would you do if you couldn't dance? Yeah, that's great. You mentioned before the importance of providing hope. I'm curious about that because it goes without saying that someone in this situation will be sorely lost.

lacking hope perhaps would be, right? What have you found is an effective way to instill genuine hope where it's palpable and you actually see something's clicking, there's a little glint in their eye or whatever it might be. What are some things that you found have proven effective

Perhaps effective. Personally, sharing my story makes a big difference because my back has been against the wall and I have been in their shoes. And so I think that if people can see in someone else that

something that can give them a sense of hope, then that's really important. So I think as an advisor, just finding in your own story, what were those times in your life? We all have them. What were those times in your life that your back was against the wall, that all of the odds pointed against you achieving something that you went on to achieve?

And then just reminding them that, you know, you're going to help them find what it is that they need.

to find themselves back on track, and it may look different. I mean, you have to... So many people don't prepare for the uncertainties in life, but that is the one thing that is certain. So it's really just making sure you're always having these conversations and that you're preparing anyone that you have influence with.

with is making sure you're taking them through those worst case scenarios and preparing for them. Right. Right. You don't want to blind sign them with these things. Just, yeah. A lot of messaging, communicating up front. Yeah. Empathy. Empathy is everything. And genuine empathy, obviously. Yeah. Absolutely. I mean, one of my team's values is authenticity. And we have to always

in that place of being true. And people know when you're not. So you have to have a heart for this kind of work with folks. And it's so rewarding. And I will tell you, I mean, success that gets represented by

growth in our practices and wealth that may be built for ourselves. You know, that comes, that follows. When you lead with your heart and you do the right thing in an authentic way because you really do care about helping someone get to their goals, right?

That's why I love comprehensive financial planning, because I can quantify all the data. That allows me to give much more surgical, accurate advice with conviction and confidence. So I love that part of it. But a client really is just looking for someone who has expertise, whom they can trust, who they believe is important.

true and authentic and truly cares, that's what they want. That's what they want to lean into. And the rewards, like I said, on all fronts are immense. I want to ask if there's anything that we haven't touched on that you want to bring up that you think is important for listeners to know? Well, I think our audience should be advisors, yes. And so this is just such noble work that we're doing. And

Taking pride in that, remaining humble through it is critical. And just to be authentic and true in the work that we do, never stop learning. And it's the most rewarding career I could have ever imagined. I loved my first career as a performer.

But I had no idea that this was my true calling. Well, you're not alone in that. I've heard that as a refrain from a number of people and said with genuine conviction too. So that's great to hear. Thank you, Greg. Well, thank you so much for joining. My guest has been Jill Williams. For more podcasts and the latest wealth management news, visit barons.com slash advisor. For The Way Forward, I'm Greg Bartalus.

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