Alex Van Halen On Eddie, Fire & 'Feeling It'
46:24 Share

Wait, wait, don't tell me. Fresh Air, Up First, NPR News Now, Planet Money, TED Radio Hour, ThruLine, the NPR Politics Podcast, Code Switch, Embedded, Books We Love, Wildcard...

This is Fresh Air. I'm Tanya Mosley, and my guest today is Alex Van Halen of the iconic rock band Van Halen. ♪

Jump was Van Halen's biggest hit, and it became an anthem when it came out in 1983, even though a record executive once said it sounded like the kind of music you'd hear between baseball innings. Alex Van Halen shares this story in his new memoir, Brothers, which he wrote after the loss of his younger brother, Eddie, who died of cancer in 2020.

Known for their extravagant, high-energy performances, Van Halen is credited with being one of the most influential rock bands of all time. The book covers the first three decades of Eddie and Alex's music career, which started from their arrival as kids to the United States from the Netherlands, the influence of their father, who was a Dutch jazz musician, and the formation of the rock band in 1974 after meeting vocalist David Lee Roth and bassist Michael Anthony.

But most importantly, Brothers is a love letter to the music they created and Eddie, who has been called for decades one of the greatest guitarists of all time. Van Halen disbanded after Eddie died in 2020, but throughout their run, Van Halen produced 12 studio albums, two live records, and 56 singles. They were included in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame in 2007. Alex Van Halen, welcome to Fresh Air.

Thank you for having me. Alex, this was a beautiful read, and I feel like there is no better way to ground this conversation than to start at the beginning of this book, because the way you write is so poetic, and the way that both you and Ed talk about your relationship, which you use his words in this book, really gives us a grounding. And I want to read just this first paragraph.

This first piece that you have on the very first page, it says...

Without my brother, I would not be. We fight, argue, we even argue about agreeing on things. But there is a bond and unconditional love that very few people ever experience in their lifetime. We're not a rock band. We're a rock and roll band. Alex is the rock. I'm the roll. And that was your brother. He wrote that about the two of you. Did he write it or did he say that at one time?

I'm not quite sure, but when I hear it, even though I've heard it a hundred times, when I hear it again, it brings a lump to my throat. We literally were yin and yang, the two halves of a whole, however it's been characterized.

And it made the, when Ed says that even we fight when we argue, yeah, sure, Ed, my way. No, your way. No, both ways. It bled into everything we did, whether it was writing songs. Even though Ed did the majority of the music, you know, we all had a hand into bending and twisting it the way that we felt appropriate for what we were doing. Yeah.

Meaning that, you know, you can't have a nine minute song on your first record. Well, you can, but it doesn't serve you well. So the constant juggling and adapting and, you know,

I wouldn't call compromising, but blending is really the word that I'm looking for. It's kind of like making a soup. All those things kind of come together, and then you walk away at the end of the day with something that you say, okay, this is pretty good. Let's see what happens tomorrow. Because we left a lot unfinished. You left a lot unfinished. You spent your whole lives together. You're basically like twins, 20 months apart. Yeah. How much of the music did you listen to while writing this book?

I'll be honest with you, man. I went through a lot of emotional issues,

But I basically had PTSD when he passed. I didn't know why I was yelling and screaming at people, and I was borderline violent. I didn't hit anybody. I don't hurt anybody. I'm too old for that. But the feelings of frustration and this inexcusable way of behaving to my closest friends and my family was all wrong. So I sought help and found out what it was.

Yeah. It was the pain of the loss. Yes, it's indescribable. You know, I had the pleasure and the good fortune of being close friends with the Procaro family and...

Steve lost a couple of members. He lost two brothers. I'm sorry, can you reference who the Peccaro family is just so we'll have those who don't know? Well, they were probably the most famous studio musicians and later made a band called Toto. Wow.

I just thought, Steve, you shouldn't have called it Toto. What should he have called it? I don't know. But the thing is, it's not really named after a little dog. The original name was for Entoto, which means in total. They were a band that did things in total. That was the Italian name.

version of it. But anyway, so I went to visit him because I really didn't know where to, who to talk to, who I could relate to. It's difficult to find people your own age and your own musical history and background that you can communicate with. So I was talking with Steve. I'm laughing because the punchline was at the very end, I leave and I'm maybe 15 minutes out from his house and he calls me and he says, hey Al, I just realized that

I never dealt with any of it. Which I found profound because of, indirectly because of Ed and my problem. He finally would admit that he, you know, it's not done yet. And that's really what it is. You're never going to be rid of it. There's going to be memories. There's going to be people. There's going to be instances that, whether it's smells or food or places where you've been together before. And, you know, obviously every time I hear some of our music, that puts me right back there. Yeah.

And that helped you in the writing of this book. But that was such a painful place to be because that is the basis, that's the core of you and your brother's relationship. Yeah. It was fun to read about your origin story because it allows us to see how the two of you saw yourselves because at your core, you guys always seem to see yourselves really as immigrant children from the Netherlands who fulfilled this American dream. Right.

Is it really true that you didn't even know English when you arrived in the States? That's true. I'm trying to, you know, coming to America was such an overload, a sensual overload of colors and smells, and the weather was different, and the people were different, and the cars were huge compared to what we had in Holland. It was a lot to take in. But I kind of rolled the wave, so to speak. Ed was very sensitive in that sense.

in that way, if not always. So it was a good mix between the two of us. I kind of plowed ahead, and Ed would analyze or be overwhelmed by things. But, you know, it was a different time. It was 1962, I think it was. Yeah, and you were eight, and he was six? Yes, yes.

With your mom being Indonesian and your father being Dutch, right? They were an interracial couple and you were mixed-race children. Yes. Why did your parents choose to come to the United States? What were they fleeing from? There was a lot of political turmoil in Indonesia. And to put it simply, they wanted to be free of the colonial power structure. And they saw my dad as part of that because he was Caucasian.

Our parents were already married, so the best thing that they could do, they thought, rather than live in the middle of some place with a conflict where you really are... The Caucasian people really were a minority at that time in Indonesia.

even though they were the ruling class. They moved to Holland. It was my dad's home country. And there, the shoe was on the other foot. Now my mom is the minority, and she's easily identifiable. I'm laughing because it's absurd what people do on this planet. But that's another story.

So they moved to Holland, and she really got the brunt of racism. All the time, even as children, we saw it happen. But you can look back on it depending on how you navigate it. It could be a positive, it could be a negative. It never really affected me as much as it did Ed.

It can either make you tougher or it can make you hate people or angry. I never had any of that. As a musician, you welcome everybody. Why would you cut your audience? Let everybody come in. Let's go play. What was the choice for them moving to the United States? Was it because of what they were experiencing in Holland around their relationship? At that time...

My mother had a sister who lived in a city called Pasadena, and she kept sending letters and all these different communications of how wonderful it was and the weather is great. It's just like Indonesia.

Oranges are a penny apiece. In Holland, you don't really get oranges. You get them once in a while and they ship them from Spain and they come elaborately wrapped. It's a big ordeal. But that aside, so oranges for a penny apiece was very attractive for my mom and us too as well. How did your parents meet?

The way my mom explained it was he showed up on his motorcycle and he didn't have any underwear on. That's a love story. You know, those kind of stories. A little humor, I think. Because, you know, living at those times was very...

Things were not secure. The Second World War had just ended, and now everything's headed for another conflict and another disagreement. And God only knows what's going to happen. But my mom came from a very wealthy family in Indonesia. They owned a bit of a railroad piece or something. They were higher up the food chain. But to my mom, working in an office and wearing a suit and a tie...

Nothing was higher than that in her ambition. And for our whole life, that's all she ever asked was, Alex, Edward, please wear a suit. She had you guys playing classical music. Classical music was in the house 24-7. That and military marches. Because my dad, to be able to work in Holland, he had to join the Air Force. So...

They would do the dignitary marches and all that. But yeah, basically it was... As a musician, you have to look for opportunity. And every musician knows that. And you make do with what you got. But being in the military was, I think, very...

indirectly was very much involved with how we were brought up. Being strict with the kids, there was no question about it. You know, you do it or you're actually going to get your ass beat. And they will never beat us a lot, but just enough. Just enough to get you in line. Bingo. You know, it was very normal. Corporal punishment was very typical at that time.

Alex, music was in your blood because your dad was a jazz musician, so you were watching him while you guys were also performing yourselves. What was your earliest recollection of doing gigs? The first thing we wanted to do was put a band together, and I think the first band we did put together was a band called the Broken Combs.

which was, I played sax and Ed played piano. I had two other guys in there. And we managed to play for the school functions. And it was a good lesson for us as well. You always knew you'd be in a band and you always knew that it would actually be with your brother. How did you know that rock was your calling?

You feel it. You know, music is not an intellectual endeavor. It's not what people think it is. You feel it. You either dig it or you don't, right? It's that simple. I think it was, to jump around a little bit, I think it was Count Basie who said there's only two kinds of music, good music and the other kind. But that kind of, that's how simple it is. You know, if you like it, do it. As long as it's not illegal, right?

You knew what kind of music that you wanted to play as soon as you experienced rock. You experienced, you guys, like so many teenagers during that time period, it was the British Invasion. It was the Beatles. Also a lesser known group called the Dave Clark Five.

Bingo. I'm glad you mentioned that. Those guys, they were really what we thought was the epitome of that kind of music at the time. What was it about them that blew your mind? They had a grungy sound that the saxophone provided. And because I think maybe somewhere in our psyche, because our dad played saxophone, it was deeper in our DNA. Yeah.

But, you know, it's a good thing we didn't bet on anything and that we weren't financial advisors because you would have bet on the wrong horse. But, yeah, so when the Beatles came...

I mean, they were brilliant. There's no aspect of what they did was not brilliant. Hard Day's Night was the first MTV long video, if you will. These guys were just brilliant. And not to mention their music. The talent and the music that came out was unmatched. I mean, there were a lot of bands around, a lot of... From Herman's Hurwitz to The Seeds, I can't even name them all. But...

The Beatles clearly were a notch above all that. And that appealed to us. No, like they gave you, I mean, they gave you really the rock and roll Holy Ghost. I mean, because you experienced them and you immediately shifted your focus from the music that you were playing to then finding your own sound. I'm really interested, though, in how you and Eddie came to your instruments because

At first, the guitar was your instrument, right? Yes. How did it become Eddie's? I was taught very strict and very by the book. You learn to read, you learn the chords, you listen to the classical music and all that. But I had no connection with the instrument. I hate to use the old expression. I just wasn't feeling it, right? Yeah.

So, and there's this story about Ed doing papers and that I became better than him. It's not quite how it happened, but the fact was when Ed played, he made that instrument sing. It was unbelievable. I'm going, Ed, you're playing guitar. I want drums. Besides, Dave Clark Five was my idol, and he was the drummer. So, but again, on a serious note, when Ed played the guitar, he made it sing. I want us to play a little bit of

Eddie on his guitar. 1986, Peak Van Halen. This is live in New Haven. The crowd is electric. And we see your brother in all of his glory at the top of his powers as a guitarist. He gets up there and I think it's like a 12-minute guitar solo called Eruption. Let's play a little bit of it. Eruption

That was the late Eddie Van Halen playing a solo. The one and only. The one and only.

That entire performance, Alex, is mesmerizing. I mean, Eddie looks like he's having the time of his life. That's because he is. He played guitar from the moment he woke up to the moment he went to sleep. And it was just his way of either communicating or finding peace with himself on the earth. I don't know. And I'm certainly not going to stop him while he's getting better and better every day. So, you know, that requires a lot of waiting and a lot of beer. Yeah.

Because of waiting in beer, because you all were literally in a house together and you're watching him perfect what we would see on stage. Yes.

And we only had one record player, so, you know. How would you describe his relationship to his guitar and what it allowed him to express? There was a time, again, because of the early... that you become somewhat separated from the crowd by being a musician, you take it a step further, and then when the rock and roll vibe permeated the country and you have a guitar right there, there come the girls, you know,

It's just that Ed had a sensitivity that was very difficult to describe, you know, and I don't think all of us were aware of it at the time because we're all trying to be tough guys, you know. You're out in the street, you better get tough on the kid level. But I think I was pretty much in tune with what he was trying to do. The problem with Ed was he could play anything, so the most difficult thing for him was to find his own voice.

And he spent a lot of time doing it. Then when he finally found it, that was it. Big smile. Our guest today is Alex Van Halen. We'll continue our conversation after a short break. I'm Tanya Mosley, and this is Fresh Air. Fresh Air

If you love our Fresh Air podcast, you should definitely try NPR+. With an upgrade to the NPR Plus bundle, you get access and perks from over 20 of NPR's most popular podcasts and more. And with Fresh Air Plus, you get sponsor-free listening and exclusive bonus episodes every week. So basically, give a little and get a lot in return. Visit plus.npr.org.

This message comes from NPR sponsor Grammarly. You use multiple platforms every day at work. Writing is involved for most of them. That's why Grammarly works where you work. 96% of Grammarly users say it helps them create more impactful writing. It works across 500,000 apps and websites. With one click, go from editing drafts in hours to seconds. Sign up and download for free at grammarly.com slash podcast.

That's G-R-A-M-M-A-R-L-Y dot com slash podcast. Easier said, done.

Hey there, it's Tamara Keith. I cover the White House. I know this is hard to believe, but one day the election will be over. Then the winner gets a lot more powerful. It's my job to report on what they do with that power. That's public accountability, but it's not possible without public support. So please support our work. Sign up for NPR Plus. Go to plus.npr.org.

This is Fresh Air. I'm Tanya Mosley, and my guest today is Alex Van Halen from the rock band Van Halen. He's written a new memoir that covers the first three decades of the Van Halen brothers' journey in music, their childhood in the Netherlands, and later in working-class Pasadena, California, meeting and working with frontman David Lee Roth and the creation of the Van Halen sound. The book is also a love letter from Alex to his younger brother Eddie, who died in 2020.

Alex, you wrote about David Lee Roth, the lead singer. You said this, the bottom line is that Dave desperately wanted to be an artist, but something was always missing. He could never really feel the music. He didn't get the part where you need to resonate with something deeper, something like the eternal force of the universe. That was like a very powerful thing to say about your lead man, David.

Because his showmanship also seemed to provide something that you and your brother needed, and that was this front man, because people weren't going to shows just to see instrumentalists play during that time period. The very fact that you're calling it a show...

tells me which part of the human organism is actually getting the information. It's your eyes taking 90% of the information that you process in your brain, which is ironic because we work in a sound medium. But...

I was afraid to put it that way because people think I'm too analytical, but this is how I was taught. My dad used to tell me, people don't go to hear a band. You know, when you talk to your buddies who went to...

what bank can I name, went to Elton John. They don't say, did you hear Elton John? Did you see the show? And that was something that you need to incorporate. And how Ed and I approached it was that you don't want the needle to go too far from one to the other. Try to keep a balance between the sound and the show and everything else that's involved in putting it together. At the end of the day, you can do whatever you want.

But we would like it to be successful in terms of having everything match the music. Because Ed and I grew up on music.

That was our world. Well, that is the thing is that this was – I just want to put people in this time period. So first off, you and your brother met David Lee Roth very young. I mean, you all basically started the group together. Yes. It was David who came up with the name Van Halen. Yes, it was. Yeah.

You know, I was probably overthinking it, but I thought he was trying to curry a favor with us, and I figured, you know. So the first thing I did was I fought it. Now you can't name the band Van Ham. But eventually it took. And before Gene Simmons said, you can't use that name, it sounds like a shirt company, like Van Usen.

Well, Gene Simmons from KISS, he's famously credited with discovering you guys. I mean, and to put this time period in perspective, this was right as MTV was starting. This was right as the visual part of it was coming into play for us where expectation was there. So I can imagine that was part of the conflict too, right? Yeah.

You know, if you watch the bands and see how they progress, even Led Zeppelin was using explosions. Okay? So when the guys are the highest form of the food chain, when they do it, it's okay. It's now become part of the language of rock and roll. And why fight it? Okay, bring on the flashpots. Yeah, yeah. But yeah, Gene was a good guy, man. We had a good time with him.

We owe him a debt of gratitude. What do you remember most about meeting and working with him? That we had a drastically different way of looking at music, meaning that it was not a... I think, and then don't get mad at me, Gene, but I think for Gene it was more of a way to get to where he wanted to be.

music was not the end result. And, you know, you have varying opinions about that. I mean, there are lots of musicians who wish they would have put on makeup and played and had more people come. But the thing is, he was very giving. He was very liberal with all his... I mean, we had a great time together. And his sense of humor was unbelievably bent. LAUGHTER

Gene would love you. Well, I get the sense that before David Lee Roth joined you guys, that you and Eddie would have been fine doing sets in T-shirts and jeans because you were about the music and he was about the show. And what were some of the things that David would push you guys to do?

It wasn't so much pushing us. It was more we needed someone to get us off our ass because we knew we had to do it. But we're waiting for the last minute possible to have to do it. Because to dress up for a gig, that's not your back to playing with suits on or whatever. That was how I saw it.

Rock and roll is supposed to be about freedom, about you just show up and play, right? We all knew we had to change the way we looked, so we did. But when you're in the thick of it, when you're on Sunset Boulevard and you're walking down Hollywood Boulevard, you're walking down anywhere in Hollywood at that time, there is a whole, whole...

rainbow of colors and dress styles. There was a band called Zolar X, and they dressed as space guys. It was mind-bending. Their image was so overpowering. Why would even one listen to the music? Who cares? That was my read on it. Now, because we were all very, very opinionated, which also was actually, I'm being serious for a second, because we were all very opinionated

We fought it out until somebody came up with the right solution. And that's basically the process. How did you get the idea to set your drums on fire as part of your act?

There were a number of people at that time who tried different versions of it. I've always been fascinated by fire because for me, fire represents the temporariness. Is that a word? Only the moment counts. I mean, the flame is there and poof, it's gone. So is life, right? Yeah.

So to me, that represented that. And it was an element of danger because we did it on such an amateur level that any given night when we did it, if my drum tech, Greg, an old buddy of mine, if he put too much stuff on it, it would leak. There were several times when... What do you mean by stuff? Like gas? Oh, yeah, lighter fluid. Lighter fluid? Yeah.

My favorite memory of all of that was we kind of got it down to a science, and as we're doing it during the performance, the lighter fluid starts to come down my arm, and then I look over and I notice my arm's on fire. So I'm thinking, that can't be good, right? So I look at Greg, who's, you know, in theory, he's there with a fire extinguisher so he can

So I look at him, and he's looking at me, and he gives me the thumbs up. Looks great, man. I'll never forget that as long as I live. Greg, I love you, but man, put that damn fire. Wait, did he? Do you have burns? What's going on? What? Yeah. Did you have burns? Yeah.

Yeah, we had, but it was very low-dig. You know, we just used lighter fluid, and you put a match to it, and poof, there it goes. It's very uncontrollable. You're taking a risk every night. But, you know, we were young, so it's okay. We're all right. Did you end up having to get new drum sets every time? I mean, how did that work? No, actually, it wasn't until the end of the tour. I got slapped with, like, I don't know how much. All the microphones and the cords were fried, and nobody told me that when we were doing it.

The drum set itself was made out of stainless steel. Ludwig was very accommodating. They made a stainless steel drum kit for me. It wasn't the only one, but they gave it to me. But it really goes to show you how...

At that age, you know, you don't really, the stuff doesn't really register in your brain. It turns out that the average male brain does not completely mature until the age of 27. I'm still waiting.

Let's take a short break. If you're just joining us, my guest is Alex Van Halen. We're talking about his new memoir about his life and his brother Eddie and the formation of Van Halen. We'll continue our conversation after a short break. This is Fresh Air.

Hey there, it's Ian and Mike. And on the How to Do Everything podcast from the team at Wait, Wait, Don't Tell Me, we will answer any question you have, no matter how ridiculous. Like maybe you want to get a haircut in space and you're not sure how. Astronaut Frank Rubio has had a haircut in space. We plan for everything, right? And so it's not a pretty haircut for sure, but it's functional. Listen to the How to Do Everything podcast from NPR. Anxious.

This October, Shortwave is helping wrangle that fear. And the trick may have to do with horror movies. I feel more alive when I am in situations like this. Learn the surprising science to conquering fear when you subscribe now to Shortwave, the science podcast from NPR.

Every weekday, NPR's best political reporters come to you on the NPR Politics Podcast to explain the big news coming out of Washington, the campaign trail and beyond. We don't just want to tell you what happened. We tell you why it matters. Join the NPR Politics Podcast every single afternoon to understand the world through political eyes.

This is Fresh Air, and today we're talking to Alex Van Halen, founding member of the rock band Van Halen. His new memoir gives us an intimate view of his relationship with his younger brother Eddie, who died in 2020, and the first three decades of the band's run. The book is called Brothers.

Hot for Teacher was a song from your album 1984. It's one of Rolling Stone magazine's. It was on their list saying that this was the album that brought Van Halen's talent into focus. Let's play a little of Hot for Teacher. Oh, wow, man. Wait a second, man. What do you think the teacher's going to look like this year? Oh, wow.

That was Van Halen's Hot for Teacher from the album 1984. Also, humor is a big part of your act. I want to just say that. I mean, I know we've been talking about it not being an act. It's who you are, but yes. Yes. But, um...

This album overall was pioneering because there's a lot of synth, which was a new sound back then. Yes. And we were always looking for the next, what's around the corner. And we heard a lot of synthesizer music. It was all this progressive rock stuff, you know, whether it was Maha Vishnu or Billy Cobham.

And there were a number of people who used that sound quality, if you will, because I hate to use the word synthesizer, because it conjures up a certain image of certain things. When you juxtapose that over a very simple pattern of something else, it does become something else. I know I'm talking in riddles, but that's what music is. It's a big riddle. Try to figure it out. This song, which came first, the melody or the drum beat?

Ed and I played so much all the time, it's hard to remember who. I think it was probably Ed who came up with the guitar lick. One of the things that you like to make the point of is that you all aren't heavy metal, even though you're put in that category.

Yes, because heavy metal, I love heavy metal, but because we had a lot of different influences. So we had to look for, because people like labels, and it was very difficult to find a label that would define us. Not that we needed definition. But, you know, the irony of all of it was when rock and roll, which was originally rebellion, became structured and organized.

What the hell is that? Right, right. Did you ever see... Yeah. Go ahead. You know what I'm talking about. Right. I mean, did you... You watched Spinal Tap, right? Oh, yeah, yeah. That wasn't funny at all. That was the real deal. Why wasn't it funny?

Ed and I saw it, and we said, man, that's what we experienced. That is really how things happen. It's mind-bending. The public doesn't really have any idea what goes on behind the scenes, and I'm certainly not going to burst a bubble, but that movie, there were a lot of elements that were more true than they were parody. And, of course, then they believed their own stuff, and they went out and toured for the...

Right, right, right. That was the ironic part. You and Eddie famously for a long time never recorded any music without each other until a request from Quincy Jones for a little-known song called Beat It. Let's listen. Beat it, beat it, who's gonna do it?

That was a solo Eddie did on the iconic song Beat It by Michael Jackson. And Alex, I think it was on the charts the same time as 1984, if I'm not... Yeah, it was. Yeah, why do you think Eddie went and did that without consulting you guys? If I remember right, he did consult, and we said no. What are you going to do? I'm not going to make something... We really did not overthink anything, but I did want to kick his ass, you know? Why...

Why? Because our model was basically Led Zeppelin. The way that they structured their business, the way they structured how they played, who they played with. Led Zeppelin was Led Zeppelin. You couldn't get Jimmy Page anywhere else. You can only get him on Led Zeppelin. Come to the show. That's it. You don't get him with Michael Jackson. You don't get him with so-and-so. But Ed violated that, and it started a whole cascade of just bad, bad vibes.

It was the beginning of the end for you guys as a unit. Yes. But in all fairness, it really was not the single thing because things were already starting to unravel. When we named the album 1984, it had nothing to do with the year. It had to do with George Orwell and the dystopia of what was going on. This band was so fractured. We barely ever played together anymore.

And unfortunately, MTV became the predominant way of conveying all this. And Dave, being the visual guy, naturally opted for more visual stuff. I don't blame him for any of it, but, you know, it's just too bad because we were on the cusp of something really, really big. Ed going and doing this song with Michael Jackson, if you guys had always said you wanted to be Led Zeppelin, what do you think it was that made him say, I want to do this anyway?

I don't know. There's some aspects of his behavior are even to me a mystery. I just have to say to you, Alex, it also opened up another world to you guys. I mean, I'm a little black girl in Detroit hearing that little solo from Van Halen. And it introduced me to you.

And that was the argument that a couple other people make, but I tell you, I don't buy it. My suggestion would have been put Michael on our record, okay? Then you got something. And people will say, are you out of your mind? Well, you can have guest people on your records. But am I angry? Of course not. You know, that's just posturing. That's what you do to your brother and your bandmates, you know? Nobody fights better than friends.

Alex Van Halen, this was such a pleasure. Thank you so much. It was my pleasure. Alex Van Halen is a founding member of the rock band Van Halen. His new memoir is called Brothers. After a short break, TV critic David Bianculli reviews the fall TV broadcast season. This is Fresh Air.

As Election Day approaches, NPR's Consider This podcast is zooming in on six states that could determine who wins the White House. Georgia, Nevada, Wisconsin, Michigan, Arizona, and Pennsylvania. We'll ask voters in these swing states what matters to them and which way they want the country to go. Follow along with new episodes this week on the Consider This podcast from NPR.

Adrienne, do you feel that nip in the air, the smell of pumpkin spice wafting from your local coffee shop? Yeah, the overwhelming urge to suddenly watch holiday rom-coms? Yes, with all of these warm and fuzzies on the brain, it is the perfect time to explore the economic side of romance on The Indicator. We've got a week of episodes we're calling Love Week. Subscribe wherever you get podcasts.

Hey there, this is Felix Contreras, one of the co-hosts of Alt Latino, the podcast from NPR Music where we discuss Latinx culture, music, and heritage with the artists that create it. Listen now to the Alt Latino podcast from NPR. ♪

This is Fresh Air. You know, it used to be an annual TV tradition, the fall season, when the broadcast networks would unveil their new and returning series to great fanfare and large audiences. Well, our TV critic David Bianculli says all that has changed with the advent of cable and now streaming networks, and with good reason. You may not have even noticed, but the broadcast fall season finally is underway, a little later than it used to roll out and with a lot less impact.

The basic reason for this is that the corporations owning the broadcast TV networks also own streaming services. CBS has Paramount+, ABC has Disney+, NBC has Peacock, and they're putting their best programming eggs into those baskets. Just like in the late 1940s, the owners of NBC and CBS Radio put their money and talent and energy into this new thing called television.

So what's left to watch on broadcast TV this year? Not much. In primetime, I still watch 60 Minutes on CBS, and I like Abbott Elementary on ABC. But this season, the networks are serving up a lot of sequels and retreads. CBS has Kathy Bates in a new show that uses the title of the old Matlock series, but not much else.

CBS also has yet another spinoff from its NCIS franchise, while ABC has a sexier love boat type series called Dr. Odyssey. And CBS also has a spinoff from the sitcom Young Sheldon, which itself was a spinoff of The Big Bang Theory. It's an odd type of TV evolution.

Big Bang was filmed multi-camera in front of a studio audience, Young Sheldon wasn't, and the newest spinoff, Georgie and Mandy's First Marriage, is. And it even opened with Georgie and his family watching an old multi-camera sitcom on TV, an old episode of Frasier, with Georgie, played by Montana Jordan, noting the laugh track from the Frasier studio audience. In order to prevent spillage, one does not simply twist out the cork.

Fraser's a laughing show. I like laughing shows. What are you talking about? Well, some shows you can hear people laughing and some you can't. Wonder Years. No one's laughing. Is it funny? We'll never know. So many of these new series are like cafeteria casseroles. They're aggressively and intentionally bland and designed to be instantly accepted rather than being spicy, exotic, or unsettling.

Late-night broadcast TV, on the other hand, is going just as intentionally in the opposite direction. Political humor has been a late-night staple for decades, but there's more of an edge now and more time given for context. On Saturday Night Live, during Weekend Update, Colin Jost poked fun at Donald Trump's behavior at a recent rally.

but actually showed more of that rally than on any news channel I watched, making the eventual punchline even more biting. But then this week, Trump did strike a positive tone when he stopped questions at a town hall to just dance for 40 minutes. Please enjoy these somehow 100% real clips. This is a man! Hallelujah Hallelujah Hallelujah

Special. Like, really special. And you can find all those incredible songs on Now That's What I Call Dementia. And Seth Meyers, in his opening monologue on a recent edition of his late night show, mocked Trump's behavior at yet another rally.

But Myers did so with a punchline that was so unexpected and so dark, you could hear it reflected in the reaction from his studio audience. That's right. Former President Trump held a rally over the weekend in Latrobe, Pennsylvania, and suggested that golf legend Arnold Palmer was well endowed. Well, still not as bad as that rally where he suggested that Mike Pence might be hung.

It does work. Late night, not primetime, is where broadcast TV is thriving these days, even if most people watch those shows afterward in small clips on streaming services or social media. But I did find at least one absolute delight on primetime broadcast TV. It was on the season premiere of Fox's The Simpsons, which decided to open its 36th season by presenting its series finale. It wasn't the finale for real.

But it was really, really funny. It's the Simpsons series finale! And now, your host for tonight, Conan O'Brien! Conan!

Thank you. Yes, thank you. It's such an honor to be with you all for the series finale of The Simpsons. I knew I was the right man for the job because I've hosted the last episode of three of my own shows. And counting. The episode used the excuse of a fake finale to aim at lots of tasty targets. Not only the long history of The Simpsons, but other TV finales and even a very current concern among Hollywood writers.

The setup was lengthy, but worth every second of it. The time has come to finally end The Simpsons. But how? The bar had been raised so high by the classic finales of Mad Men, Breaking Bad, and The Sopranos, and lowered by the legacy-ruining farewells of Seinfeld, Lost, and The Sopranos. The producers racked their brains to create a finale that would satisfy the show's many fans and many, many haters. Then they came up with the perfect plan. Foist the job onto somebody else.

Meet that somebody else. I give you the latest in machine learning, artificial intelligence, Pack GPT. This cutting-edge breakthrough in plagiarism has been programmed to write, animate, and voice the perfect finale for The Simpsons. One that wraps up the characters' storylines in emotionally satisfying ways, but won't damage the most important legacy of the show,

The 2026 grand opening of Homer Simpson's claim-jumping, Yukon-rumbling, rock-and-roller coaster at Disneyland Shanghai. To create the ultimate finale, the AI has been fed every Simpsons episode and the last episode of every television series ever made.

Pat GPT is now performing billions of computations to create the perfect story. Who knows how long this process will... Finale complete. Oh, that was really quick. Well, let's see what we got. The Simpsons really entertained me when it premiered in 1989. And it still really entertains me in 2024. On broadcast TV, that's an absolute rarity. David Bianculli is a professor of television studies at Rowan University.

Our interviews and reviews are produced and edited by Phyllis Myers, Anne-Marie Baldonado, Sam Brigger, Lauren Krenzel, Teresa Madden, Monique Nazareth, Thea Chaloner, Susan Yakundi, and Anna Bauman. Our digital media producers are Molly C.V. Nesper and Sabrina Siewert. Roberta Shorrock directs the show. With Cherry Gross, I'm Tanya Mosley.

This message comes from American Express. The American Express Business Platinum Card offers world-class business and travel benefits. This card was designed to help you get more for your business, wherever it may take you. Learn more at americanexpress.com slash amexbusiness.

Darian, why have so many people fallen out of love with dating apps? That is such a question of the moment. And I posed it to the CEO of Hinge for Love Week on The Indicator. That's our week-long investigation into the business side of romance. Find us on your favorite podcast app, The Indicator from Planet Money. It's Love Week. We love you. Aww.

Coming up on The Indicator from Planet Money is Love Week, our week-long series exploring the business and economics of romance. Ever wonder how cable channels crank out so many rom-coms around Christmas time? Or wish you could get relationship advice from an economist? I'm listening. That's Love Week from The Indicator. Listen on your podcast app or smart speaker. It's love.