Al Pacino Looks Back On A Legendary Career
45:50 Share

Support for this podcast and the following message come from Autograph Collection Hotels, with over 300 independent hotels around the world, each exactly like nothing else. Autograph Collection is part of the Marriott Bonvoy portfolio of hotel brands. Find the unforgettable at AutographCollection.com. This is Fresh Air. I'm Terry Gross. My guest today is Al Pacino. Don't ask me about my business, Kate. Is it true? No.

Don't ask me about my business. No. Well, I'm going to ask Pacino about his business, by which I mean his art. It sounded like a shot to me. It did, I know. It's you slamming the table. Oh, all right. As long as it's not a gun. I've had enough of those.

So I'm going to talk to Pacino about his remarkable performance in the Godfather films and other films. We'll also talk about his life. He's written a new memoir called Sunny Boy, which is the name his mother used to call him. It spans his life from the days he grew up in the South Bronx, raised by a single mother with little money, to falling in love with the language of the great playwrights Strindberg, Chekhov, and Shakespeare, getting his start in avant-garde theater in Greenwich Village, to the age of 20.

surprising himself by becoming a movie star, nearly dying from COVID, and all the ups and downs along the way. In case you need to be reminded, some of his now classic films include Dog Day Afternoon, Serpico, and Scarface. Although he starred along with Robert De Niro in Godfather II, they never had a scene together, but they were together in Heat and more recently in Martin Scorsese's film The Irishman.

Al Pacino, welcome to Fresh Air. So exciting to have you here. Thank you. I'm very happy to be here. I want to start with a question.

I want to get to a lot of your life. I want to start by talking about The Godfather. So I want to start with a scene from the first Godfather film. You've begun your transformation into the killer Michael, into the crime family Michael. You know, you start coming home from the military. You don't want any part of the crime family. But then you're kind of pulled in after your father is shot.

So here's a scene from Godfather 1. You've begun your transformation into the hardened Michael. Your father's still alive, but Michael is preparing to take over from him. You have become so hardened, like you hardly blink in some scenes, including this one.

So you're with Mo Green, a Vegas casino owner, kind of modeled on Bugsy Siegel. And the Corleone family has helped back him. Also in the scene is Michael's older brother, but not very bright brother, Fredo, played by John Cazale. And the family lawyer, Tom, played by Robert Duvall. Mo Green is played by Alex Rocco. You speak first. The Corleone family wants to buy you out. The Corleone family wants to buy me out. I buy you out. You don't buy me out.

Your casino loses money. Maybe we can do better. You think I'm skimming off the top, Mike? You're unlucky. You damn guineas really make me laugh. I do you a favor and take Freddy in when you're having a bad time, and then you try to push me out. Wait a minute.

You took Freddy in because the Corleone family bankrolled your casino because the Molinari family on the coast guaranteed his safety. Now, we're talking business. Let's talk business. Yeah, let's talk business, mate. First of all, you're all done. The Corleone family don't even have that kind of muscle anymore. The Godfather is sick, right? You're getting chased out of New York by Barzini and the other families. What do you think is going on here? You think you can come to my hotel and take over? I talked to Barzini. I can make a deal with him and still keep my hotel. Is that why you slapped my brother around in public?

Oh, no, that was nothing, Mike. Now, Mo didn't mean nothing by that. Sure, he flies off the handle once in a while, but Mo and me were good friends, right, Mo? I got a business to run. I gotta kick asses sometimes to make it run right. We had a little argument, Freddie and I, so I had to straighten him out. You straightened my brother out? He was banging cocktail waitresses two at a time. Players couldn't get a drink at the table. What's wrong with you? I leave for New York tomorrow. Think about a price.

Do you know who I am? I'm Moe Green. I made my bones when you were going out with cheerleaders. Wait a minute, Moe. Moe, I got an idea. Tom, Tom, you're the conciliary. Now you can talk to the Don, you can explain. Just a minute. Don is semi-retired and Mike is in charge of the family business now. If you have anything to say, say it to Michael. You don't come to Las Vegas and talk to a man like Moe Green like that. Fredo, you're my older brother and I love you. But don't ever take sides with anyone against the family again.

I just love that scene so much. Yeah. It's interesting on radio, too. It works. Just hearing it and not seeing it. Does it work, though? Yeah, it does. Yeah. It really does. I was thinking maybe they'll do The Godfather on radio someday. That's a great idea. Yeah. You know, I interviewed Michael Caine years ago, the great actor Michael Caine, and he was saying when you're playing a powerful person, you don't wave your hands around because –

When you have the power, people are looking at your every subtle gesture. They're trying to read you. They're trying to stay in your good graces and stay safe. And so weak people move their hands around. Powerful people don't. When we started talking, you were moving around a lot. So I'm thinking, was it hard for you to be as still as Michael is when he is exerting his power? Because he knows how to not be still when he needs to.

But he can be very still and very opaque and very threatening at the same time. I know. I don't know how I did that. Yeah, I was wondering. I don't know to this day what possessed me. You literally, like, don't blink in that scene. I think you blinked once. How do you do that? Well, I was in the situation, as they say, and I guess it—

It came to me, you know, because things like that happen if you, you know, stay the course. Meaning if you are with whoever you are when you're playing it and your instincts are operating. I guess I was lucky and I just went in that direction. I didn't do it consciously. You were nearly fired from the movie after the...

opening scene. And you write in the book that the opening scene was such a stupid scene for the audition because Michael is so, like, not a part of the family. He doesn't really know who he is yet. His future is uncharted and he's naive. So, yeah. Judgment was off on picking that scene, I think, because it's a scene of...

you know, quasi-exposition. So when you're going through it, what are you supposed to do? He's just describing to his girlfriend, Kay, who later becomes his wife, like who's here and who his family is and who they've helped kill. I know. All these wonderful people auditioned. I remember them all, all of us, the young actors just doing that scene. And I thought, well, what can they see from that, you know?

But somehow I was the lucky one because Francis always wanted me before there was a script. Francis Ford Coppola, yeah. Yeah, he always wanted me to play Michael. That was in his vision.

Even though it wasn't in mine, I'll tell you that. I thought he might be making a mistake. You thought he was kidding and it was maybe a phony phone call. Well, I did think when he called me and told me that he was given The Godfather to direct.

Because I knew him like a year before that, where I went out to San Francisco to do something with him. And I saw where he worked and the zoetrope with Spielberg there and Lucas and all those, De Palma and all those 70s filmmakers that were about to explode on the scene. And I had met them in San Francisco. And he was...

getting to know me for another role he was doing in a movie that he wrote, Love Story, which never got off the ground. And I went back to New York, and I hadn't heard from him in about a year. And then he called me, and I said, Oh, Francis, I spent some time with him, three or four days, so I got to know him a little bit. And I thought, This guy's got something very special. And he called me and told me he had The Godfather.

I thought, now he's gone too far. I thought, what life can do to you, you know? Now he's fantasizing things. So I said, okay, I went along with it. After a while, I started to think, wait a minute. I think Paramount is pretty smart to pick this guy because this guy knows his stuff. And it's an Italian-American. He understands it somewhere. They picked him.

You know, he had won an Oscar already for the script of Patton, the George C. Scott film that was so wonderful. And so he already was starting to establish himself in Hollywood. And then I started to think maybe he is going to do it. But when he said he wanted me to play Michael, then I thought, oh, he's really in a fantasy.

So you start with Robert De Niro in Godfather II, but you're not in any scenes together because he's of a different generation from before you were born. And...

However, you do have scenes together in Heat and also in The Irishman. And I want to play a great scene from The Irishman. Sure. Okay. So here's a scene with you and De Niro toward the end of the film. And you've just gotten out of prison. He plays Frank Sheeran. And Frank Sheeran is somebody who got very connected to the mob. And then he became...

You played Jimmy Hoffa, the head of the Teamsters Union. He became your bodyguard. So in this scene, you've only recently gotten out of prison. There was a big kind of ceremony in your honor. And then De Niro, as Frank Sheeran, comes up to you and explains that...

Basically that your time's up, that the mob wants you out of the Teamsters, out of the leadership position that you want to return to. But you're both talking between the lines. You're not coming right out and saying anything. You're talking between the lines. It's a great scene. You ping pong back and forth. So let's hear it. It starts with De Niro. Tony told the old man to tell me, to tell you. It's what it is.

Something funny happens to me.

They're done. You understand that? And they know it because I got files. I got proof. I got records. I got tapes. Anytime I want, they'll be gone. These *** spend the rest of their lives in jail. And they know it. They know it. What you're saying is what they're concerned about. What I'm saying is I know things. I know things. They don't know I know. Please. Do you want to take that chance? What chance am I? Why should I be taking a chance? They're saying this is it.

They're saying this is it and then it's it. Jimmy, I'm trying to tell you something. I know you are. You're telling me they're threatening me and I got to do what they say, which is absolutely right. It's the bottom line. Bottom line? It's what it is. They do something to me, I do something to them. That's all I know. I don't know anything else. Do you?

You don't get that De Niro's telling you they're going to kill you unless you do it. And they do. Yeah. So you and De Niro are both such intense actors. You're of the same generation. So when you're working together, do you have a similar style of either preparing or like does one of you want like a thousand takes and another one of you only want one? You know, like what are your commonalities in your classes when you're working together? Yeah.

I see all just commonalities there. It's like we've been doing this for many years. And even when we did Heat together, Bob said to me, it's a scene just between the two guys, if you remember, in Heat. And he said to me, let's not rehearse. I said, okay.

Let's not. So I went to the scene, and Michael Mann approved of not rehearsing. And I thought it was a good idea because these two guys didn't know each other. And we sort of knew our words, but so what if we didn't? We were there. And it went on. And that's the scene. And it worked. Because it worked because we were...

meeting for the first time in the movie. It's interesting. I was all ready to rehearse, and he said, let's try now rehearsing. Let's just do it that way, see what happens. And I feel he was really right. So we have that kind of freedom with each other because we know each other from years of working. And, yeah, he's so easy to work with, Bob. You know, he just, anything you do or say, he's there, he hears it.

So you grew up in the South Bronx. You hung out with a pretty tough crowd. Yeah. And you used to, like, jump from rooftop to rooftop. Oh, yeah. We were wild. You threw trash down. More wild. You'd be on the rooftop and throw trash down on Saturday nights to young men with their dates. Yeah. Yeah. We would go there and throw, like, lettuce at them and stuff. And they always wanted to kill us, but they couldn't catch us.

We would do it on occasion, on occasion. We didn't do it a lot, but when we did, I remember it. Where was the fun in doing that? God only knows, because everybody else was doing it. It was something we were all doing together, like we were in an orchestra. We just would go up there and, like, part of growing up where I was was being chased. That was the fun of everything. Chased by who? By anybody that we screwed around with.

And, you know, that's how we did. We didn't only do these things. I'm sorry. They stand out from time to time. But I remember my childhood as running. At least three of your closest friends died of drug-related deaths with a heroin overdose. Yeah. How did you manage to avoid that yourself? Well, I believe my mother. My mother just died.

And she just, no way. You know, like, there's scenes in the book that reflect that. You know, we, it was just territory there in the South Bronx. We were, they were calling me late at night on a school night and to come on out. You know, who knows what they were going to be doing. I think it's in the book, too. And they call up, and my mother just said no. And I was so angry with her.

You know, all these things come back to you. I remember when 30 years ago, I'm in my house in New York. I had a house there, and I'm shaving to go to an event. I'm getting an award of some sort. And I was thinking about, what am I going to say?

So I started thinking, and then it just dawns on me, I'm shaving. You always see my face in the mirror. And I thought, you're here because of your mother. What's the matter with you? I said, it's true. So I had this realization at age 52 that my mother was everything, you know. How old was she when she died? Did she get to see you be successful? No. My grandfather and all my mother saw me. They both died before me.

I became successful. Yep. Your parents divorced before you were two. When you were around eight months old, you were taken away from your mother. No. I think I was a year and a half, and I stayed with them for eight months. Stayed with your grandparents. My father's mother and father. And you say at least you were placed with family and not a foster home. Why were you taken away from your mother?

I would imagine, of course, I'm not very clear on that. I learned that after my mother had died from relatives that came to see me on Broadway. And it was just a revelation. And then a bulb went off in my head, and I thought, uh-oh, there it is.

That's why I do some of the things I do. Like what? I don't know. Like the behavior I had and the way I was in life. And that started me. I went into therapy for the next 40 years. After finding out about that? Trauma. It's just trauma. You know, trauma. We all have trauma. Trauma you didn't even know you had. It's interesting. Yeah, I didn't. But that doesn't mean it didn't affect you.

Of course. So I know that my grandmother on my father's side raised me to the point where my grandmother and grandfather, that she had visitation rights in the divorce papers. She found out. And she was simply the most wonderful person. I think I went there when I was a year and a half. That's tough stuff.

So we need to take a short break here. So let me introduce you. My guest is Al Pacino, and he's written a new memoir called Sunny Boy. We'll be right back after a short break. I'm Terry Gross, and this is Fresh Air.

This message comes from Apple Card. Apple Card is the perfect card for your holiday shopping. When you use Apple Card on your iPhone, you'll earn up to 3% daily cash back on every purchase, including products at Apple like a new iPhone 16 or Apple Watch Ultra. Apply now in the Wallet app on your iPhone. Subject to credit approval. Apple Card issued by Goldman Sachs Bank USA, Salt Lake City branch. Terms and more at applecard.com.

This message comes from NPR sponsor Merrill. Whatever your financial goals are, you want a straightforward path there. But the real world doesn't usually work that way. Merrill understands that.

That's why, with a dedicated Merrill advisor, you get a personalized plan and a clear path forward. Go to ml.com slash bullish to learn more. Merrill, a Bank of America company. What would you like the power to do? Investing involves risk. Merrill Lynch, Pierce, Fenner & Smith, Inc., registered broker-dealer, registered investment advisor, member SIPC.

Support for this podcast and the following message come from Autograph Collection Hotels, offering over 300 independent hotels around the world, each exactly like nothing else. Hand-selected for their inherent craft, each hotel tells its own unique story through distinctive design and immersive experiences, from medieval falconry to volcanic wine tasting.

Autograph Collection is part of the Marriott Bonvoy portfolio of over 30 hotel brands around the world. Find the unforgettable at AutographCollection.com. This is Fresh Air. I'm Terry Gross. Let's get back to my interview with Al Pacino. He has a new memoir called Sunny Boy. When we left off, we were talking about growing up in the South Bronx with his grandparents and single mother.

There was a point where your mother was crying and kissing you all over, and you were very young, and you weren't understanding what's up. Why is this happening? And then you return home, and you see there's an ambulance in front of the building, and it's your mother who they're there for. Was that—did she attempt to die by suicide? Yeah. Yes. How old were you? I was about six.

Did it register on you what had happened? Did you comprehend it? I couldn't quite. At six, I knew something was up. And I was, you know, I lived with my grandmother and grandfather and my mother. I remember them all sitting at a table. I think this was after the war, so my uncle would be there, my aunt would be there. Everybody was talking about what to do. And I remember sitting there, and they let me sit there.

So I didn't quite understand what they were saying, but I knew it was a serious thing. But, you know, she came back. That must have been traumatizing, too. But seeing her in the streets, somebody said to me as I'm running to see the ambulance, you know, we rarely saw ambulances coming on our block, and I saw it. And there she was on a stretcher going into the ambulance, and I thought,

Because I couldn't believe it was my mother. These things don't happen to my mother, you know. And it was her because they said, hey, I hear it's your mother, Sonny. It's your mother. It's my mother. I said, no, nothing happens to my mother. And I remember that feeling. And then the shock of seeing her in that, it was, as they say, surreal. But it's clear in my memory. Yeah.

She must have loved movies because she took you to the movies when you were... Oh, she loved everything. My mother was very smart. She read and played the piano. I mean, very poor, of course, but she was very, very intelligent. And my mother decided to go to the theater and take me to Broadway shows, among other things. But she loved Cat on a Hot Tune Roof and

Those kind of shows. She was very into. She took you to see when you were five. She took you to see The Lost Weekend starring Ray Moland as this like raging alcoholic. It's a great film. But he, you know, he gets very self-destructive. And I don't know. You were five and then you started acting out those scenes at home. Yeah, I started acting out the scenes. Yeah, I would act all the time. When mom took me to the movies, I'd come back.

because we lived alone and there was nobody there to play with. So I'd act out all the parts in the films I saw. And I acted out The Lost Weekend, and I showed it to my mother. My mother said, oh, what is this? And she started laughing. And then she'd show it to the families. Or when I was somewhere, they'd say,

Sonny, do The Lost Weekend. And I would do The Lost Weekend. And I never understood why they would laugh at someone in this predicament because it's where he's searching for a bottle of booze that he hid somewhere when he was sober and now he couldn't find it when he was drunk. And now he can't find it. And he goes crazy opening drawers and so on. I love doing that. I think it's...

It's a memory. And they would be laughing, and I would say, why are they laughing to myself? Do you understand now? I sort of do. It's kind of funny to see a five-year-old playing an adult in crisis. Yeah, adult in crisis. He's totally disillusioned. With real commitment, I was right there. Yeah.

You became an actor. Yes. Yeah, and you fell in with avant-garde theater, which I didn't know until reading the book. But even before that, you'd fallen in love with Strindberg and Chekhov and Shakespeare. Oh, God, yes. I'm curious, like, as a teenager... Mm-hmm.

Before you were really deeply involved with theater, although you did go to the high school in performing arts. Yes. So can you recite a few lines that really stuck with you and meant something important to you when you were in your teens? From one of those three, Strindberg, Chekhov, Shakespeare, etc.

Oh, boy. I feel like I'm at an audition. You're going to be graded. I don't know what that would be. Oh, that was some play I did called The King and I. Whenever I feel afraid, I hold my head erect. Whistle a happy tune so no one will suspect I'm afraid. The other one was, I guess, Somewhere I Have Never Traveled.

gladly beyond any experience. Your eyes have their silence, and your most frail gesture are things which enclose me, or which I cannot touch because they are too near. Something, your look will easily unclose me, though I have closed myself as fingers. You open always me, petal by petal as petals

A spring opens, touching skillfully, mysteriously, her first rose. I do not know what it is about you that opens and closes. I only know that the voice of your eyes is than all roses. Nobody, not even the rain, has such small hands. Ah, there it is. It's impromptu. What was that from?

That's E.E. Cummings. Oh, okay. So you sang a few bars of Whistle a Happy Tune. Yeah. I was in The King and I, so I remember it. I was surprised to read that you were in musicals. Yes. I've never heard you sing until this very moment. I was offered a musical. What was it? A big one. What's the big movie they made? Zorba the Greek, yes.

They did Zorba, and I was offered to play the Alan Bates role. Oh, I thought you were going to say Anthony Quinn. It was Anthony Quinn and Alan Bates. They wanted me to play the Bates role on Broadway, Hal Prince, because he saw me in Indian Monster Bronx. So he asked me if I would come in and audition for him.

So I had to go with somebody who actually turned out to be Marvin Hamlisch. And I didn't know at the time. And he wasn't well-known at the time. And I would go to his house, his apartment in Brooklyn, with his mother and father. And I would practice, you know, with him.

I never said anything to them. I just went in there and practiced. So there was a place that Mary Martin was on Broadway doing something, some play. I forget. And it was a kind of innovation. They had the piano on stage but hidden by curtains. So that's where I auditioned for Hal Prince after working with Marvin Hamlisch. And I went into the theater and

And I auditioned with the song from Guys and Dolls, which is, Luck be a lady tonight, you know. And I started on doing it. And Marvin Hamlisch was supposed to be there. But I looked around, and I didn't see the piano or anything. And I said, you know, to the folks out there, I was auditioning with this guy who was teaching me how to sing so beautifully.

but I don't think he's, he's not here now. I said, so I don't know. And all of a sudden I heard him yelling from behind the curtain in the back. I'm here. I'm here. So I thought, oh, I have to go through with this audition now. So I sang, you know, and forgot all the words. And I remember leaving and it wasn't a good audition, if you know what I mean. And I remember leaving with him and, um,

And he said to me, you know, I thought you would maybe forget some of the lines, but you forgot all of the lines. He was mad. I said, well, I don't know. I'm just not used to it, I guess. But anyway, they gave me the part. Well, let's take a break here and then we'll talk some more. If you're just joining us, my guest is Al Pacino. He has a new memoir and it's called Sunny Boy. We'll be right back. This is Fresh Air.

This message comes from BetterHelp. It's important to take time to show gratitude towards others, but it's equally important to thank yourself. Life throws a lot of curveballs, and being grateful isn't always easy. Therapy can help remind you of all that you're worthy of and all that you do have. Let the gratitude flow with BetterHelp. Try at betterhelp.com slash NPR today to get 10% off your first month.

This message comes from Carvana. Carvana makes car selling easy. Enter your license plate or VIN, answer some questions, and Carvana will give you a real offer in seconds. Whether you're looking to sell your car right now or whenever feels right, go to Carvana.com to sell your car the convenient way.

Hey, it's Aisha Harris from Pop Culture Happy Hour. If you love NPR podcasts, you'll want the new NPR Plus podcast bundle. Enjoy an all-you-can-eat selection of NPR Plus podcasts with sponsor-free listening and bonus episodes. Plus, you'll be supporting public radio. Check it out at plus.npr.org. This is Fresh Air. Let's get back to my interview with Al Pacino. He's written a new memoir. It's called Sunny Boy. You are going to turn down the role in Godfather 2.

Well, the only reason I stayed in Godfather 1 is, I mean, you would quit if you were in it. When everybody's over there giggling at what you're doing, you know, and the whispers on the set. I said, I don't want to be here.

I said, I don't like being around people who don't want me around. I've never been that way. I just sort of shy off. I don't want to be there. But for Godfather 2, I mean, Godfather 1 was already a success. Oh, yeah, Godfather 2. Mario Puzo comes up to you with the script that he'd written, and he said, this is crap. Yes. He said, I just want you to know before you read it, they want to do it, and this is crap. And I read it, and he was right. It was not good.

And so I just thought, well, and they kept upping the ante. They kept giving me more money. And I kept saying, but I don't want to do it. And then finally when Francis, because Francis wasn't on the project, so Francis got on the project and he cut them off at about $700,000. He said, no, he doesn't want money. He wants a good script.

Stop giving him the money. Wait, so was the script rewritten? Yeah, well, he wrote it. This is a great script. I know, it was a great script. Coppola rewrote the script? Yeah, with Mario. And partially it was almost done, but me and Charlie still didn't think certain things were right. So me and Charlie went out to San Francisco, and we said, let's see if we can do this, you know.

And Francis did really a great job. And we just worked with him a little bit. And I remember thinking that was a very memorable moment. So then it was done. I said yes. And it was a tough shoot for me because I just don't know. It was a time in my life where

It's hard to describe it without lying down on the couch. It was hard because of your personal life? Of course, everything. I guess where my drinking had gotten to or all of it. I found myself in a state of mind that was difficult. I took Valium. Remember those days? Oh, you don't. You're too young. Valium? Valium. I remember those days. Do you remember Valium? Of course.

I didn't take it, but I certainly knew all about it. I mean, it was everywhere. There were jokes about it and dramas about it. It was like one of the first really popular anti-anxiety medications. Yeah, I took that and drank at the same time, which is a no-no. Yeah, that is. So I was a lucky boy. How did you manage to get through the film? You're so good at it.

I mean, you're so good in the film. How did you manage? Well, that's probably why I was so... But thank you for mentioning that. It just went very far. I went very far into it because I always thought by the end of Godfather I, it looked like Michael was starting to become encased in whatever this thing took over him, this place he went to to survive.

to save his father's life and to continue his life. And it was a tough one. Because I sort of see in Godfather II a man who's cutting himself off. He's had to emotionally shut down to do what he felt he needed to do. Yes, yes. And become a monster. Yes. Did that have an impact on you, having to emotionally shut down for the role? It had to, it had to.

I've learned since when you play situations and people that are caught up in that web, it's best to be happy every day, sing cheery songs, and then go on. It's actually true. I've known some actors, very good actors, who just say, nope, nope, I'm just doing my thing.

They could be dancing and singing and just go right to it. And at that time, I would do it now, of course. I'd do it, yeah. The more difficult the role, the more, you know, and the more demanding or whatever, you go the other way in your preparation because you've got it all in you now. You know, I think just through experience and doing this experience

The saying goes, time keeps me green, you know, because when you are acting or that thing that we do, and after a while, it gets there into the body and into the, it just, it becomes part of you. And you don't have to act anymore.

Well, let's take a break here and then we'll talk some more. If you're just joining us, my guest is Al Pacino. He has a new memoir and it's called Sunny Boy. We'll be right back. This is Fresh Air.

Okay, so does this sound like you? You love NPR's podcasts. You wish you could get more of all your favorite shows. And you want to support NPR's mission to create a more informed public. If all that sounds appealing, then it is time to sign up for the NPR Plus bundle. Learn more at plus.npr.org.

If you listen on the regular to the Fresh Air podcast, then I know you'll love some of the other NPR podcasts, too. Here's why NPR Plus is worth your time and money. You get perks like sponsor-free listening, bonus episodes, early access, shop discounts, and more for over 20 different NPR podcasts like this one. Support what you love and stop hearing promos like this one at plus.npr.org.

This message comes from NPR sponsor Grammarly. You use multiple platforms every day at work. Writing is involved for most of them. That's why Grammarly works where you work. 96% of Grammarly users say it helps them create more impactful writing. It works across 500,000 apps and websites. With one click, go from editing drafts in hours to seconds. Sign up and download for free at grammarly.com slash podcast.

That's G-R-A-M-M-A-R-L-Y dot com slash podcast. Easier said, done. This is Fresh Air. Let's get back to my interview with Al Pacino. He's written a new memoir. It's called Sunny Boy. So you had to have surgery on your carotid artery. I guess it was clogged? Oh, God, on both of them. Both of them? Okay. Yeah. I had four strokes. Oh. Wow.

It was not fun. But at the same time, it was diagnosed as something else. And I thought, I'm having some ocular migraines, as it was. But it wasn't. It was something else, TIA. And they're small. They're sort of minor. And then it was happening with frequency. And it's the kind of a thing where all of a sudden, you know, you can't quite see anything.

And then you can't quite speak. You can't talk, put words together. That's kind of scary when you're driving a car. So I thought this is something, and it went on for about a half hour. You had one of these TIA mini-strokes while you were driving a car? Yeah, I did. Oh, it's lucky you survived that. Ah, lucky, yeah. Yeah.

I want to ask you about another medical event that, you know, almost killed you. This is like during the COVID thing. You almost died. You flatlined. Well, that's what I thought I did. I was standing there. I was getting, I had COVID and I was getting, how do you call it? I was dehydrated. And so they were hydrating me. The next thing I know, I'm opening my eyes and there's six paramedics in my living room.

And two doctors dressed like they're spacemen, head to toe, with all this stuff over them. Oh, detective gear to prevent COVID from spreading to them. Yes. I thought, what could this be? I just thought, whoa. Do you live alone now? How do you like it? I'm not crazy about it, but what's the alternative? I live in such a great place and such a good area.

And I have friends, and that's good. And I go out to dinners with people, and so I'm fine. What you do say in the book is that...

You thought you had experienced death. I sure did. I really did. But what you experienced was like nothingness. I'm sorry to say that. Yeah, you didn't see like a bright light. You didn't feel like you were looking down at yourself from the sky or the ceiling. It was just like the absence of anything. No, I saw Marvin Hamlisch playing the piano.

I'm just joking. I get it. You get it? Yeah. I didn't see anything. I opened my eyes. I thought, what happened? That's what I thought. And then I saw this. And, you know, that's a new experience. I never had that experience. And then they started watching me and stuff and the recovery and everything.

Whether you nearly died or just briefly unconscious. Well, it did have an effect on me. Yeah, that's what I'm interested in. Exactly right. I do think about now more about death than I ever did before. And I think about what is this? And how does one just understand it a little better? There's various ways, you know, and...

The best I think is not to think about it, but try that. For some people, the answer is, oh, now I believe in God. For other people, it is, you know. Well, I always believe in God. I mean, whatever that is, I always do. I always have. That's something that is whatever God is. Did it make you any more or less afraid of death? I think I got a little more concerned about it, let's put it this way, or I wonder about it.

You know, I'm in my 85th year, so that's there. You know, when you talk to people, it's there. It's got to be there. How could it not be there? Has it affected how you want to spend whatever time you have left? No. Whatever time I have left, I don't think that way. I didn't mean like, oh, this is like the end, but I mean like sometimes you rethink like, what do I want out of life at this stage of my life?

Do I want to work more? Do I want to work less? Well, yes. You know, it's a question of appetite and desire to do what everybody does, really. Sometimes you have appetite to go home and look at the football game. But appetite to take on something as part of your history. I mean, I've been doing this my whole life. I can't think of anything else.

would do. Sometimes you can't afford not to do it. So you go do something and you know like they say at AA, bring the body the mind will follow. So you go and say I don't know that I want to do this particularly well but it's a good role and I'll bring my my body and my mind will follow once I start to work on it those juices come and

And then the thing that goes along with it comes. That's how I see it. And if you're lucky, you read something and you want to do it. You have an appetite to do it. So there are very few things like that that have happened to me in my life that I had the appetite to do a particular role. And usually those roles were failures when I did them. So who can say?

Thank you so much for talking with us. Oh, it's been a pleasure. Thank you for all your great films, all your great performances, and for the book. Thank you very much. Thank you. Be well. You too. Al Pacino's new memoir is called Sunny Boy. Let's close with a famous scene from his film Dog Day Afternoon. Pacino's character is robbing a bank to pay for his lover's gender affirmation surgery, but everything's gone wrong, and he's holding everyone at the bank hostage.

In this scene, he's stepped outside where he's surrounded by police. Police snipers are on the surrounding rooftops. And a police detective, played by Charles Durning, is trying to get him to release the hostages. A crowd of people has gathered outside the bank, watching the whole spectacle. Come on, put one of your head. All you got is attempted robbery. I'm armed. Oh, you're armed then. Nobody's been hurt. Release the hostages.

Nobody's gonna worry over kidnapping charges. The most you're gonna get is five years. You get out in one year, huh? - Kiss me, man. - What? - Kiss me. When I'm being , I like to get kissed a lot. - Come on, come on, now, come on. - You're a city cop, right? Robbing the bank's a federal offense. They got me on kidnapping, armed robbery. They're gonna bury me, man.

I don't want to talk to somebody who's trying to calm me. Get somebody in charge here. I am in charge here. I don't want to talk to some flunky pig trying to calm me, man. You don't have to be calm. What's he doing? Will you get back over there? What are you opening in there for? Will you get the f*** down? Get back there. What's he doing? Look at him. Get over there. Go back there, man. Get over there. He wants to kill me so bad he can taste it. I was going to kill you. Attica! Attica! Attica! Attica!

Tomorrow on Fresh Air, we'll remember Quincy Jones and listen back to my 2001 interview with him. He died Sunday. He was an arranger, composer, and producer for music that spans from the big bands through bebop, pop, movie soundtracks, TV themes, and hip-hop. He arranged or produced recordings for Frank Sinatra, Ray Charles, and Aretha Franklin, and produced Michael Jackson's albums Off the Wall, Bad, and Thriller. I hope you'll join us. What's gonna say?

Fresh Air's executive producer is Danny Miller. Our technical director is Audrey Bentham. Our engineer is Adam Staniszewski. Our interviews and reviews are produced and edited by Phyllis Myers, Anne-Marie Boldenato, Sam Brigger, Lauren Krenzel, Teresa Madden, Monique Nazareth, Thea Chaloner, Susan Yakundi, and Anna Bauman. Our digital media producers are Molly C.V. Nesper and Sabrina Siewert.

This message comes from NPR sponsor Merrill. Whatever your financial goals are, you want a straightforward path there. But the real world doesn't usually work that way. Merrill understands that. That's why I'm here.

That's why, with a dedicated Merrill advisor, you get a personalized plan and a clear path forward. Go to ml.com slash bullish to learn more. Merrill, a Bank of America company. What would you like the power to do? Investing involves risk. Merrill Lynch, Pierce, Fenner & Smith Incorporated, registered broker-dealer, registered investment advisor, member SIPC. Some of our favorite planets aren't even real. But could they be?

Here on Shortwave, we journey to other planets, distant galaxies in our universe and in our favorite works of science fiction. Listen now to the Shortwave podcast from NPR. Support for this podcast comes from the Neubauer Family Foundation, supporting WHYY's Fresh Air and its commitment to sharing ideas and encouraging meaningful conversation.