Fast growth, big capital, and how Moniepoint is building a fintech unicorn in Africa | E2036
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A nine figure of the tech round in two thousand and twenty four. And the start of in question has a focus on the african market. I bet you don't know who i'm talking about, what you're about you i'll see the second this weekend.

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Welcome back to this weekend start up. I'm so excited about today. I have toco annual ronda to CEO and co founder of money point just raised a one hundred and ten million dollar series c that everyone covered and the company is now reportedly a brand new please welcome toast on the show. toast?

Hi alex. Thank you very much for having me on the show. Um excited to be here.

I'm very glad to have you and you get three points for being a CEO that managed a very quick planning and scuttling turnaround to attempt your team. Be really appreciated. I want to get to the present moment in a second, but I also want to go back in time because money point, and this was a new learning to me, actually started off life for the first, I think, four years as a company called team at so i'm hoping you can tell me just a little bit about the start of the company up into the point in two thousand nine when you launched money .

point yeah of of course I looks alright. So many point studied as steam up. Like you mentioned, IT was founded in twenty and fifteen.

I was founded when I and Michael funda lefts a previous place of work, where I was an engineer manager and a product manager, and he was a software engineer. And we formed team out. And team out was a software company where we are build in widely build software relations for banks.

These were digital banking solutions for, uh, my chance for businesses, for consumers, sometimes back office or precious reconcile system. That is a liability to my. So was a slip, and we did that for about four years.

And uh, this was a critical period for us because this was a critical period, we learned a lot about profitability and running a company on not necessary on the deficit. Um we always figured out that at the end of the day, what marta is to have a very large by and next is to have a good portion of that. I so um we focus on having a business that's going to be wolf in lots before now figured out how to race fund for IT. So since the first four years, this was a software business when were not too confidence that this was something which raise once hope, uh, in two and nineteen, we decided to people that business business model into something we felt like could far I wanna use you there .

because when I was learning about team APP just prepping for our chat today, uh, you guys ended up supporting something like twenty six out of the top thirty banks in nigeria. And I I read that you scale the revenues of team up to seven figures. So IT IT didn't seem like that business struggle. So i'm curious about the gap between the results and and you stated, you know a lack of confidence in IT. What am I missing there?

Yeah I mean, it's like like you knew if software business is a service business and in the service business is does not have recording revenue, IT is not clean comments as first in the second thing also was we were going to be restricted generally to the total addressing market of banks. And I felt like we should choose an industry where the possible and adjustable markets are far larger and more. Actually, we call silly gaps in the services that you ve got back to giving to customers, and we knew that this service could be Better. So that's why we decide to do the periods.

But here's the thing that I have as a question there because IT feels like you guys went from servicing and helping the banks become more digital and more modern, and then you decided to, in a way, go out there and almost chAllenge the banks. Is that is that a fair kind of like incapable lation of the pillar in .

twenty IT is what IT is. We made IT the Mandate that we we are going to be one of the biggest financial service provider in the in the country. So yeah, I know you we I actually love that.

but tell me a little bit kind of like day too. So you guys decide twenty nineteen, we're gonna the business also the year you went on raise your first external capital. I think he was a five point five million dollars around how hard was that to kind of put aside what you have done and had take that leap of faith into essentially .

a net new business because we making up a about I, I, I we knew there was no way 吧。 And what we essentially deed was split the organization into two, that if parts that was business as usual, just make sure that all our contracts close for play. Nobody comes after somebody sues us, maintain IT and closer our project a second parts if focus on new things and I do I die, push my own personal attention, inserted new things and um we did a couple of experimental of what do we think the industry like, what we stick we attempt to to launch in, acquire online and offline. The dresses history.

So let's let's talk about that early history because money points seem to grow very quickly from two thousand nine hundred. And after you found that, I I think that by two thousand and twenty one and you guys has on boarded thirty thousand agents and had we're doing about twenty three million transactions a month. So what how did you get such in same volume so quickly? And can you explain to people who may not be familiar what an agent does in the money point context?

Of course, alex, an agents is a human, is a human financial service provider that so we should see IT. And for people that do know what I need a uh is is so so think of IT like a single man bank where someone could go meet this individual who places as a business um in locations that are close where people live or do or or work and they offer microfinance, cal services and these are financial services are like cash withdraws, cash deposits, bill demands at time purchase um um um account opening and in some cases uh actually support services like debit cards, shoes. And these agents are pretty important because they reach the cap for financial inclusion where they can allow people to end trust and access digital financial services that otherwise the media to go to a bank branch to access. So you could think of the naturalization of bank branch is done by prince, that that close where people .

walk or leave is, is there A A, A need to help people who may have a less of a technological background make the jump from cash to a digital banking situation? And that's why having a human agent helps, because IT puts a human all on, effectively, the cloud.

I let you, you got the right. So these are like, trust. And as well people are like, oh, okay, I know this guy.

This guy opened the account for me, hence, I now puts my money in this account. I don't Carry cash around, and of course, when I need cash, I can go to him to withdraw some cash. When I want to put money into IT, I go to this guy, so I don't need to really go to big branch.

I think this guy, uh, so that's what's agents represent. And this, of course, the services that they give up, digital financial services, right? Because they are customers, actually digital customers. The customer comments with them will typically have a bank account on a debit card, but for them to not access, for example, cash draw and cash people six and agents, they want to get the called go to the age. So the essentially mini bank branches where people get final digital financial services.

are these agents, uh, your employees or they separate people that run their own effectively small business.

They have business on us, that small business.

Well, I mean, that matters. Just learning more about money. I learn pretty serious. I M being kind of made market focus at least to the start. So not only where you service in those uh, types of companies, you are also helping to build up new ways I D like that. Uh, that kind of full circle moment.

Exactly, exactly. I know what money point does is what we help. We power our small businesses.

So this agents were some of the small businesses that we got initially. And like, like and one of the jr. Came to, to be able to offer cash, withdraw services.

They needed have a point of cell device that people can use to withdraw cash. So almost like if they were in the U. S, they would have got in a square device where they can use the charge cards and give cash to people, essentially human team.

And going back in time when you were a team at, you guys actually built A A ported sale, uh, acquire in solution. So you already had some POS verified.

if you will, exactly as a national manager and as a product manager. IT was prety exposed point of, uh, just like Michael pd, also felix. So where are the hard experience in the market to knew what some of the problems were, some of that we needed to give to the market party?

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So how hard was IT to launch a new brand and scale IT inside of the nigeria market, where I believe the majority of money points business still is? Because I know of nigeria as one of the most popular nations, you know, rapidly digitizing pretty quick economic. I have a whole list of stats and bother me. I know what about the country or what I don't know is how competitive it's banking sector is or how harder would have been for money point to grow initially. So tell me a little bit more about that.

So IT was a chAllenging period I, I, I showed. I would not want to hold that back. A body was for us a it's a we have at the beach and with burnt our ship, we'd have no that we down to win the bottle.

We had know that we that is so like and we were competing IT, is pretty well found that stop ops, which was still compete with, by the way, uh, one of them echoes probably most most found that step up in africa. And we were also competing against banks and many other other tops that had similar ideas. But of course, um ultimately superior products, superior distribution of winds. And we focus heavily on having a great products at an accessible Price points, innovated on that and measured that we ve had an excEllent distribution network to distribute products to our businesses.

You did IT with very little money. So I want to go back to the point about boots trapping, because before you guys pivoted towards money point, you had essentially self financed company and reinvested profits into IT. why? Why did you decide to leave that behind? And instead of go there and raise successfully larger in a couple, of .

course. So I mean, like I said, I ultimately the way you would look at the value you are creating for yourself is the value of your of your stick in whatever the pie is like how how large is my piece in this pie? There's no points being a small pie that you won everything know.

So I rather want to part now take a venture capital, grow the pie and however routine a good water the pie for I, me, for me, me microfiber and my stake le does. And that's exactly what we did. Uh, what was, however, quite important anthrops, is that while we were built in despite making IT larger, we never want that would be at the mercy of adventure, al capital or private quality.

And what that means was profitable ability as long as a profitable as a business, you are not under any pressure to raise an extra funding. You essentially only raise funding when you need is this dimensional reality of production. Uh, you should only inject extra cuts of production when IT is needed.

If you raise, modern is needed is a dime response IT. So we always wanted to grow every other effect of production, every reliable product, my gets feet, all those things work, clare. And we knew that what was just remaining was going to be so inject H.

R. capital. And that's the philosophy that we keep the till today.

So often though, when the company raises more money, when I start up raises more of capital, they tend to expand their headcount, marketing whatever they increase their expenses and offer and burn a little bit more. Does money point after raising around except a period of unprofitably as the capital is invested? Or do you guys try to remain profitable even after a new .

venture capital around philosophe be profitable? So it's a baLanced between growth and and and and and how much you born for growth, right? And money yeah money point us for for the most profitable for six months in the first six months of our first first founded aries.

And we quickly went back to profitability because we simply could not be that's risk. I think that in markets where you think this is pretty easy for is a race funds, it's not going na be a problem. I think it's fine if you, anna, go quite unprofitable.

But if you run a business that you are not pretty sure how long the next founders ies gonna take you, if you are going na get there, you are taking a pretty huge rise. And we are this a business as business in africa, as a business where vital is not reach us, what are going to find in in the in the western countries, and as well as also IT be to be business that is fundamentally unit economic polity. You need reason why you be profitable is burn is simply opens.

So as long as you can reach the growth, get you so with the bond rates that is less done, what you have that has less, I hope, gross profit fine. essentially. I time to born everything that every other, every other margin I are making. Just make sure that are of anybody I think is a pretty street .

ward philosopher. Hy I I like that. Is external capital very useful having someone else owned your future? Yeah less attractive. I mean, let's be honest, who wants that? And if you're profitable, you can tell your investors to go take a hike because .

what they I know exactly exactly I mean it's a risk is a risk um exercise if you are. So if you think that you want you to point everything and more, maybe you fighting some tough battles and you will have a very clear path. How you're gonna ad, maybe you're just extra capital is simple.

We make the but majority of annoying opposition, and they simply follow the philosophy of where or more we must be on proof. And I think I never fear that most people have is that when you are on profit, companies are forced to be valued on the basis of gross profit or revenue as multiple of growth, profitable revenue. Typically you are not yet held to any accountability, accounts with a bit positivity, and this generally leads to inflated valuations.

But when you start getting profitable, and this is to put online, you start getting multiples, which is inevitable. It's quite inevitable. You starts getting much chd because ultimately, people, investors want to return.

So I feel like that S A no reason why a lot of startups s take that approach. But it's, like I said, is a different thing. If we have easy access to cash born where you need to bond for growth.

Well, I mean, I think everyone thinks they have easy access to kash. I mean, every started of that raised one hundred and one hundred and fifty million in two thousand and twenty one thought they were the next microsoft and the next capital was always going to be there. So even, I think in markets with the most developed venture capital networks and be at california pivot, I mean, the risk is still there.

But I wants to underscore what you just said by talking about the results of the business because it's been pretty impressive. Um you guys share data with the financial times regarding your historical growth in both two thousand and twenty three and two thousand and twenty four and two thousand and two thousand twenty three for the period of two thousand eighteen to two thousand and twenty one. You guys had a compound annual growth rate of three hundred and twenty one percent which is pretty insane and then you are added another years or from two thousand and nine and two thousand and twenty two IT was three hundred and thirty two percent that actually went up.

Uh, those are some of the highest numbers I can recall seeing on a compound basis. So I have to ask, is this one of the fastest growing startups IT in the world right now? Just it's cool that part numbers, I don't usually get such.

I mean, what exercise that is, I believe I M I mean, I all all I could say is that we were instantly lucky and we worked extremely hard at the same time the incident looked that we had was we ruled a massive wave of digitalization, which is a strong sail wind. Um it's a combination of people really need to adopt of digital payments because it's more convenient, it's more secure. And this there was also a certain deficience moments where nigger pulled on india, where in a short period of time the central bank wanted to more change cash, the .

demotivating famous in india to remove higher rupee notes .

from circulation, beautiful. So the jack pulled the that same uh which LED to a massive influx of people adopt in digital experiments in a very short period that banks could not handle. So a lots of banks filled the infrastructure when set for such massive increases in volume.

And of course, we've been a vin tech company, tech press, who said in the cloud were able to have such, such massive influence. So this also leads to an establishment of the brand. And strong brand access to, say, money points is associated with reliability. Of course, this compounded growth and all the same time increases the general digital payments volume india cost system, the hardwork there is being prepared for. And well, so well.

yeah well, I mean, preparation is how luck is made. Preparation opportunity meet. Luck comes out of the but I I will say I had I am surprised by your answer because I thought you were going to say, uh, the cover in nineteen pandemic push people towards a more digital a banking environment but you had an entirely different answer. So i'm curse was covered a factor in the company's growth?

You're right. I saw I miss that. And that started, of course, in co ideas are the co videos were also master and digitalization where IT was different.

People go AR digital payments, either directly to merchants or three agents. So there was a massive as much as just like the most inside. So message increase in the other volumes could happened. Then also, demonization happened.

So but I was looking at the list of all the fastest growing african company and which you got took part. I was really impressed by all the numbers. I just want to go back to that increase in your compound annual growth rate from twenty to twenty one to twenty nine to twenty two. Um has the company managed to stay in the triple digit growth pace since two thousand and twenty two because my data stops about, uh, twenty two months ago. So I am curious what's happened .

since those numbers? Yeah of course we've money to continue groin that way. Um I will not know what the compounded number looks like unless I did the calculation, but we have minds to continue keeping the growth.

Um we we are still on body in more and more businesses daily. We are added more services. Uh, we now have we digital bank customers, not just small businesses as they when else close up to what square and cash up is now where we are building both sides of the equation.

Uh, we launched make a cash advance, uh, working capital floods or business is where you could access shot them loans to able to financial business launching business tools, which is well launching business tools, which is in venture management and other tools as a business that need to Operate with launched debit cards. We launched savings. So these are extra products and we are launching across both. And so these are all in the extra services that we launched that must as as you may know, as the country's companies grow, keeping the same group race becomes hard out because longer bees is easy to increase taming dollar revenue to 穿 一次 明年 it's not the same to do in is thirty million to six， right? So what's um one thing I would love, keep the great trees that we have been mainly in the past.

And to make a point about the numbers you just brought up， according to the same data shared by the financial times and the a um money points revenue in two thousand and twenty two was just under one hundred and forty nine million uh which you know honestly puts you at even a couple years ago. I P O scale. Add in a couple more years of growth to that number thousand. Are you guys considering an IPO any time in the near future or that still pretty far out for money point?

I mean, yes, I mean obviously we are bunched backed by ventures, capital and private guity. They wants at the point in time um they will want to return phone and an I P U is one of the parts uh to get liquid for them to return from. So it's something that will consider india future for now. We sun just want to our heads down, continue making our customers have been launched to mogel graphic launch more continue growing growth rates. Profitable growth is something as extremely, extremely important for us as much as the impacts that will also have been on the .

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So one thing we talked about actually before we we had record was the the makeup of the money point office set up. You guys have A U K office, you have A U S. corporation.

Um you have a micro multination in the way that I think of IT. If you guys were to list and go public um you have a variety of options and i'm just here. I know this is me just having, but, uh, would you want to float in in an african index in europe in the U. S. Where would you kind .

of look first? I think about the time we might be taking a look at an exit that may look like an IPO. We show the multi geography, uh uh that time that opens up a lot of the typical places to float. Uh, for such businesses to be hard to see anyone to be onest right now without consulting the .

lawyers or seeing that is a very responsible answer. That's the good question. But I don't want to get in trouble when I hang out.

对对对， so it's we have to say that right now, what I knew that all the options you mention, I A lot for consideration OK, yeah yeah. I just think you be .

cool to see more dual listings and like the U. S. In africa or across the atlantic, whatever I think is cool companies that have roots in different parts, the world list in more than one place.

But we don't see you too often. I think just because the american Marks are so deep, if you go public on the your stock change is going to be fine. But it's a little boring, you know.

So I am hoping that when we be talking you know eighteen to twenty four months, but IT is I P O time um we have some different things adding there. But so we have to go back really quickly to your point about adding consumer banking because money pointed very well on the S M B, on the business side of things. And then you guys decide to open up to just regular folks. And to me, that feels like a pretty big change in I mean, you're focus because sign to individuals is harder than some businesses. So why was that the right move for money point?

Yeah of course, uh, focus first of living states on equal focus is still on businesses, especially small. And uh, the launching of the consumer business is all just a week to also continue in that line. Um we launch consumer business in nigeria a when we saw that also also continue service in our business as well. Customers also need to have access to digital payments at the real demand instance.

I'm pretty sure the similar thing that cash APP is dead as an ecosystem play against squad and um the infrastructure for launching such a product, which will require you to have somebody in K Y C A L option processing systems, distribution networks and also as a brand already existed and we didn't need to do A A lot of extra work, will also bring this the market. So launching in us, we launched in a couple of months as a matter of IT was like a six weeks to eight weeks of work to launch the fest version of the consumer banking now. And basically, we've seen a massive growth on a massive book defense also of a business in that because this also allows us to able to have a bit of you know both sides.

So yes, focus there remains businesses is especially small businesses， small to besides ed businesses. And um the consumer business is launching consumer up is just in line with that so that we can help our businesses have customers that will accept more, that will pay more digitally. And for us, I did not cost us too much to add that as a as an extra products because the existing infrastructure are business to the first structure. In the .

technical article covering uh, many points later, they wrote that uh the the reason for by money point into personal banking markets has seen twenty x customer growth over the past year, I presume from a very modest base but has then largely quick growth trajectory persistent this year.

Yes, absolutely, absolutely. We are doubly none on the side. We are adding more, more customers. We are also happy to become mean, uh, one of the top consumer king or digital banking wallets in the country last year.

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I went dial in to your recent fundraise, the three c hundred and ten million, because I don't see that any thenk grounds of that size in two thousand and twenty four. And also we've seen venture capital numbers uh for african focus companies come down. So I am very curious how hard was IT to raise this round.

I would say it's probably not uh the easier drown um for a couple of five five those. I think we have quite good copt of cost of uh potential investors in bounding outbounding where a great investor investment bank car. But um I think the parts that took a bit of time is health value.

And it's also mostly because you need to also understand the opportunity is under risk and that you will be exposed, uh, for example, currency devolution risks. What does that mean? How do you get comfortable with that and expect the company to outgrow our current risk? May I have uh and of course, period quality deals are typically longer because it's you know not White venture capital style.

So I will see you know finding the best investors that investors understanding you a business and also happy capital to back top. And we were lucky in the ones that we found who understands the business and also you know intending to support us true to making massive returns about about them. So yeah later.

So on the on the currency risk, uh point H, I know that inflation in nigeria somewhere around thirty percent right now, but I also just kind of assumed that if you were raising and dollars, you were probably hold capital, raise ed in in non local currencies and that would essentially d risk the business from a currency perspective. But and I misunderstanding how that works for money point.

Yeah so I mean the investment is dollar investments and return is also expected to be dollar. How we got comfortable with the inflation and whatever currency devolution risk exists is because one point business, one point pmp business and credit business as a bal hedge in, yes, these risks because is a natural hedge. This because inflation on generally needs to increase in Prices of goods and services.

And um we do the this simply means that revenue also increases based on the take rates that we charge. So there's a bit of a hedge on the revenue. It's not perfect. It's very is a quite effective hedge.

Um this is one of the major reasons why the investors you know got comfortable with that laws, having the management team that they can bank on who will, in a war, really hard attempt to make the best decision, remain Price our capital efficient, be very good stream, combined with the fact that we have a pan african ambition to also expand outside natura are going to more countries, which is something that's well, working hard on seriously is IT pretty sound. Uh, um this is a pretty sound. This is for a lot of them to able to get them we are, we know, excited about, are attracted the best of them. Uh, D P I, google, I F C, oracle, a potentially one of the no. Um there is also also that interest in strategic, I don't think I can mention yet that's coming on the round.

All, all that absolutely checks with me. I I guess i'm just interested in the Price discussion because you mentioned that took a little time. And when I think about the company's growth and success, and I am a little surprise and I say this with respect that the business wouldn't have evaluation, that would be two to three times higher than what I read just given its revenue base and growth history. And i'm kind of curious, do you think that because the company has a focus on our region, that minivans or capitalists are not based on and don't understand as well that you're not getting as much credit for progress as you might have in the palm to yeah absolutely .

right as absolutely right. I think ultimately violations, uh, is the signs of art and it's a it's a William bia, William seller. What's pushes valuation job will be generally demand. And if there is a lot of supply, if there is a lot of demand with limited supplies, go. So say so the moment you have more demand for equity, this would literally put push Prices of.

So right now, you could save being able to raise such a round will had some big as and this was basic and they don't um you could say that being able to read such a quantum is quite an important stone for us and we do we also raise from private we see and private equity debt identification you know set up to value much of companies at the grain, not to slower IT and deal value on ebitda is and these were you know, things that we also have to contend to. But i'm fine with because what this eventually menses your public markets, we eventually run you that way. And the more close you are today, you start ready, prepare for that.

So that was very no justice that we had that we know that if we would, if we eventually take this to public market bias. See, we start going towards surprise by any ratio or what the last of ratio that are going to be used to fly you. So IT is what IT is ultimately where business silicon valley shall. This is many multiple of evaluation given the revenue on the good treat. But ultimately, it's a um it's a one ba with inside the market.

Yeah no, I am not host. But if you just struck me as if I saw these numbers for I don't know an A I enterprise company from seattle or whatever I would be IT would be a pretty, pretty high number. Now I want to go back to your point about um your aspirations of spreading across africa and just kind of the state of startups in the continent.

I've had the pleasure of of covering the growth of venture capital activity in africa through two thousand and two thousand and twenty one. I've also had the pleasure of covering IT as it's come down. And and so i'm kind of current, if you can just give us some on the ground vibes.

You know how is starting of life in nigeria and the other kind of big four countries in in the continents? Are people encouraged? Are they discouraged?

What to like? Uh, of course, it's viBrant as pretty viBrant. Lots of energy, lots of end up inhouse down to make a change. You you fighting a little bit more infrastructures of forces, a little bit to more microform or much more viBrant ever. Um of course the top funded countries include niger, south africa and the likes, yes, they go beautiful and of course banana coming of being there you go. So and the energy also that you find in these places also, you know this is in trying to trying is that does this include money point？

Uh I don't think this does. This is the q three if you're not watching the video, we have a chart on the screen right now showing um the region the national breakdown of a bench capital raised through two three of this year in africa and nigeria comes in third place and then um in other countries but no.

this is down. Yeah absolutely absolutely. And of course, my j is going through bit of a turnaround and essentially the same mental change made the 看到 没 so you could see uh ni ja is going to be quite an attractive destination in the future going back to the start of sand um and how what the market looks like。

Um it's it's quite interest. So the same things that you seen everywhere at the same things at the playing back. So you've be seen much as the crying thing by markets with themes, credit consumer credit themes, business banking themes.

So the most trafic themes are generally going to be much of the crying online and offline. That would be the lives of the lives of face. Actors are quiet by stripe. Um you will then only see a lot cross butter payments. That's where you see the likes of load away um um lot of live on a freak um then you see a quite a lot of consumer banking.

That's where you see like see the light so you know good that you mention so the same things, the same time, the same school, the same stripes um you do you saying you know the same things are what are common? You could say me be maybe africa might be like five years old, maybe seven years behind um in countries not five years, my just move five years behind in some of the african countries maybe people see seven or seven or eighty behind ah africa is probably similar to you know about three three four years behind. So I may seem same things that are pretty familiar of bottle. Of course we did a couple of tweet that cause the different market regulatory swim um currency controls um um yep you you sell those twice also.

I I know you has raised um a lot of this money from other other regions. But i'm curious what's the very early stage scene like in nigeria? And can you I need you.

Are there a lot of incubators? Angel investors are places where people kind of congregate and make community. I I know that there's capital. I know that there's cool companies, but at the very earliest stage, I don't have great visibility into what's going on.

Y, C. Has quite a cool about them. That's true.

White. Well, I thought the geographic diversity of why commentor batches had come down since they went back to a, uh an in person set up oh no .

I think was this of quite interesting cohoes coming year um from many of the regions. So why why sees IT grades also they also some local start tobes local vacuo hopes to um that's um they also I think text does I think yeah that's not local to but that also text as um so departs you typically is I found the uh based in any of those four countries, see the faces begins to think about the build something apply to some of these accelerated if they get admitted, typically support try to uh now that they also saying, you know much more successful startups that are reaching later stage a series series d is also leading to a bit of anger investing that is coming back from this.

You know found us who would you give jail investing as well as address at the same time? Yeah, he also seen family offices also are setting up a small ARM of their business of their family office. Also do some, for example, of fish round was from my family office in idea.

yes. Was that? Was that quantum capital partners? Or was that O.

U I capital, that quantum capital? okay. 好。 So on the Angel and .

investing point totos and I was going to ask you this literally next to thank you for the perfect segway. Uh in the states where I know the market the best, a lot of founders, after they reach a certain scale, do begin to Angel invest back really early companies. Is that something that you've .

been involved? yes. Yes, i've been delved in. Um I i've actually pulled some of my uh funds in a bit of some startups and see to help them grow. Uh I will call myself in in measure investor okay which means if I would love to put my money into something something I would love to on the sunday which an jail investor is close in jail investors close out of dumpling .

IT will Angel gambling then if you like? Yeah, investor might be a little very much, but it's it's still important capital though it's still very important to have those first twenty five thousand dollar chats whatever IT IT opens up a more more chances for luck.

Exit gambling business is gambling less, less. And I mean, if you could see the future and is gambling, but the more media, the less I, the more IT is close out of mathematics than IT is too uh, gambling. And you begin to move from the spectrum of gambling all the way into logic, mathematics.

So my risk, dollar tolerance and my level of, you know, well, lots of good money, you see someone in between. So we generally love to have a reason, a clear reason why I think this was successful and would love to take the risk that I feel I can contribute towards, which makes me have a strongest election of people that alone what to personally work with. Unfortunately, i'm so busy, busy what i'm there right now.

So this means a small luck or dog that copes that I can possibly work. But that's my style. I don't think .

having focus on your daydream, this is a bad thing when you're the CEO of a growing startup. I think that's pretty reasonable. Is the people who don't seem to do their daily job that I began to worry about doing before I I let you go? I am curious why people don't pay more attention to start up their focus on africa because you guys are doing really well.

There's a number of other companies that i've been shocking for a long time. They're also doing well. Th Epace s tack e xit w as a b ig d eal.

Why is in the world paying more attention to people that are building for a continent with one point five billion people ever take rapid decision? Sion, a Young population? IT just seems like to me such an obvious place to go to play capital, to build technology companies. And yet, IT doesn't seem to be the case when when I think about the investors that I speak to. So what's what's the world missing?

You know that the same does he said that you echo the same sentiment that Jimmy diamond made when he was in a year, if you might think last week, two weeks ago and we actually mean I was I linking the same um in the same round table. We had a call um interesting in startups that he was making and a couple of comments that we all came to conclusion where on where we need to tell our story.

If people are aware they are perception of risk starts going down there. We assign as humans a lot of risk to opposition or things that you feel like you can control unknown. And I think that fundamental problem you could see in the way that time gets more attention, especially in the U.

S. Belt, in north american belt. Da, and I think awareness also time zone closest. They are all sort of really, uh, you could see africa gets more attention one year from euro also.

And that's also because it's closer is just a few of flight your similar time zones. So I feel like we need to do IT looks more work as africans, the us. Or north amErica to also be able to understand the country where is the next one year where the next growth is, which has risks.

All these are risk can on the right. And when you understand this um um market is lots more you will feel comfortable by us. We've been lucky to have U S. Investors really invested and with K V D is one of investor. Q V is a very well known, respected vinter only investment investor and I think what that feels the first thing in deal in africa and I think is something that makes them proud of um I will simply encourage a lot of investors to and my to general in africa. We should tell our story more and thanks we will having me to tell you to be of this story.

Well, I am absolutely. I I talk to so many people from the united states, from canada, and I just, I saw you around and I like, we have to get them on the show. I have to earn more about this. So token en will all have you back on in six months or a year and talking mobile progresses over. Congrats on as far. And if you're investor and you're watching this and you want to go to nigeria, call tosa held nowhere to send you and who to talk to because, my god, we shall least do some trips and think no one another.

beautiful. thanks. All right.

This is this picking start of my name is alex. Without you soon, everybody.

Okay, I host every six months or so a workshop called Angel university. And this is where I teach people how to become professional Angel investors. And the next time i'm teaching the courses on november six and and I teach IT with my power mixing with a partner here at launch from my best friends, and it's based on my book.

But everything i've learned since then, obviously, you know, i've invested in over four hundred started ups. And if you've met me for more than five minutes, you know that the Robert com, among the ones so that I had that have gone supernova. In fact, uber is considered the the greatest investment over the last decade or two.

Robin hood, you doing fantastic as well, and calm, not yet public, but another great company. In this course, I I teach her that the fundamentals, my personal philosophy, and then I compare and contrast IT to what other people say and the the most important thing, happy source. And decide which companies to invest in and then how to evaluate those companies.

I I have a criteria. I have thirteen reasons to invest in company, thirty reasons to not use them. We call pink or red flags, pink flag and something you can clean up. Maybe the captain ables a little messy. You know, red fly could be, you know, patent lawsuit that you don't think they could ever get out from under.

And when we talk about those criteria for when you're picking a company will also go into adding value as an investor and started up and then portfolio construction, like how many investments you need to have a chance at hitting an outlier. If you have to read the parallel, you don't know what the parallel is, the proto prince go hand, look at up. We talk about securing proof, very important, to getting investor updates, what information rights are and just so much more.

We had twelve hundred individuals join us for this or chop last year. We did four of them, so three hundred people at each many these uh, accredited investors have also joined my Angel investing syndicate, which is the syndicate that com and you get to see our deal film. The workshop is open to all investors, whether you're retail or credited.

And all the proceeds of this go to charity, you can see a full list of the donations we've given that Angel dot university slash charity, you can sign up at Angel dot university. So whether you're in a credit investor or non a credit or you're just interested in learning, visit Angel dot university to learn more and gaster again, the next class is november six. I'm gonna be moving to twice a year for this because my schedule is very busy.

So if you don't get in on november sixteen, going to have to wait six months, clear schedule. This is something really important for your family. You can take a couple hours and learn about how I make decisions and our team make decisions on which of these early startups to investments.

It's not like investing in public companies where you can see how many of driver's netflix, as you know, how many uber rides were taken or how many dordain vers occurred last quarter versus a year ago. Now this is a whole different set of criteria when you're dealing with a company in years one or two or even in year zero. So I hope you come.

It's for a good cause again, Angel, that university slash charity to see where all the the proceeds go. And very proud of the work we've done like an eye and the team over the last, I don't know, six or seven years of doing this. We've inspired people to find this new career.

People say it's change their lives and they love being an Angel investor. A lot of times it's Young people who sold their company or its Young people who are professionals making a little bit of money. They are making two hundred or three hundred working at google or something, and they just want to earn. And then over a suddenly, IT becomes a path, becoming a venta capitalist. Because think about that, if you have no venture capital experience, and then you go apply to be a venture capitalist.

And then I apply, and i've made fifteen Angel investments and two of them have done well and the founders speak highly of me whose the venture capital is going to hire the person who took the initiative to make fifteen beats or the person who just wants uh, to be given a chance, right, to pick the person with more real world experience. And then you know, a lot of people who are retired and post money, their fifty, sixty seven years old, and they are sitting their home on a mountain of cash, and they wanted do something fun. We know it's a lot of fun.

Hang out with people who wants to change the world. They called entrepreneurs and their lunatics in the best sense of the world. They have crazy dreams, crazy ideas.

And when you are an investor and Angel investors get to spend time with them. You don't have to drag yourself to win office. You have to put in sixty hours a week.

You could put in five hours a week. You could put in fifty hours a week or anything in between. Uh, being an Angel investor, you make your own schedule.

You meet the most interesting people in the world. Sometimes you hit a big winner, sometimes you lose. And that makes IT just so exciting. And so I think it's a Better pursuit than going to vegas and playing black jack ker, betting on sports.

I love the idea of betting on startups because you get all these non financial rewards that come with IT, which is you get to see where the world's headed. You get to see and you have to hang out with inspiring people and see their plans to change the world. It's just an awesome fun career and pursuit. Be however you wanna look at IT, I hope you come end of that university.