Why do Wolves want Vitor Pereira?
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The Athletic FC Podcast Network. Hello and welcome to the Athletic FC Podcast. I'm Michael Bailey. Sacking season is in full flow. Russell Martin departed Southampton hours after Gary O'Neill was shown the door at Wolves. Three wins between these teams, 76 goals conceded. It has been coming. Today we focus on Wolves, who look set to appoint Vitor Pereira. So just how much relegation danger are they in?

With us today, we have The Athletic's Tim Spears, as well as Phil Hay, our lead writer for The Athletic FC newsletter. So let's first hear from our football correspondent, David Ornstein, who exclusively revealed that Wolves look set to replace Gary O'Neill with Vitor Pereira. Here is David with the details on the move to bring in the Portuguese coach.

Well, no sooner had Wolves announced the departure of Gary O'Neill than we broke the news exclusively on the athletic of his potential replacement with the club working on a deal to appoint Bita Pereira as their new head coach. He's currently in charge of Al-Shabaab in the Saudi Pro League, but there's a release clause in his contract that Wolves are ready to pay and personal terms should not be a problem given that Pereira is keen on the move

and on working with a squad of the calibre that Wolves possess. So this should develop relatively quickly and certainly Wolves hope that he'll be in the dugout for their crucial trip to Leicester City on Sunday. Pereira is 56, he's Portuguese which should go down well with sections of the dressing room. He is quite well regarded throughout football, he's vastly experienced, operated in many countries with many teams,

lifted league titles with Porto in his native Portugal, with Olympiakos in Greece. He's developed a strong coaching staff around him. He speaks really good English. He has been linked with a number of Premier League posts in the past.

They didn't materialise then, it seems this will now. The Wolves hierarchy are said to have been attracted by what they felt would be a strong ability to connect with this group on an emotional level and also that he is firm on discipline. Those are two factors that you would imagine are pretty vital given what we've seen in recent times. One of the drivers in this group

The decision will have been George Mendes, the so-called super agent who represents Pereira and is also very influential at Wolves. They had tried to move away from their reliance on Mendes, with the sporting director Matt Hobbs in particular doing a good job. But on this occasion, they've turned back to Mendes for help and we'll see if it goes as well on this occasion as it has done in the past.

Tim, just two wins in 16. Did Wolves have to make the call on Gary O'Neill now? I think they should have made it a little while ago, to be honest, Michael. I think there was a case for doing it in the summer. He did a good job last season, but I always felt he was a little bit limited and I felt like looking at what Bournemouth did when they sort of dispensed thanks for the job, but, you know, we're going to move on to someone we think can progress us up this table later.

I felt like Wolves should have done something similar. Instead, they gave him a four-year contract. I thought they should have ditched him when they got slapped 5-3 at Brentford a few weeks ago, which led us to do a Wolves crisis pod on here. And he sort of stumbled along for the last couple of months. I thought they absolutely should have done it when they got walloped 4-0 at Everton. That is the epitome of a sacking offence in the Premier League in 24-25, conceding 4-0 at Everton. So, yeah.

Around that time, they did start to look for a replacement. The club started to look for a replacement. I think they've spoke to Graham Potter. They've certainly looked to others to see if they're available, like David Moyes, even Allegri. But they couldn't find a replacement. They decided they'd stick with O'Neill. Geoff Shee, the chairman, comes out and gives him his full unequivocal backing last Thursday in his own words, in a statement, in a column with a local paper. And then two days later, basically Saturday night, they make the decision to sack him.

And they asked George Mendes to go and find someone and he gives them Vito Pereira within a few hours. So they've pondered, they've dithered, there's been indecision. As Tony Soprano says, Michael, more is lost by indecision than wrong decision. And this is page one of how not to run a football club, basically. And yeah, Wolves fans don't know who to turn their anger to at the moment because there are just so many things going wrong. I think it's a bigger mess than people realise. And they've had to massively roll the dice now.

Yeah, we're going to get stuck into probably a lot of the other issues besides it as well. The interesting thing with Gary O'Neill for me is that I guess he made a strong start, didn't he, in the Wolves job? And I wonder how much of that created that actually last season was a success when you kind of unpicked it all. It was kind of unravelling maybe towards the end of last season as well. And then we get to this point where we've got

as well as the defeats we've got in fighting between Mario Lamina and Sean Derry at West Ham, then between Ryan Aitnouri and Matthias Kunja on Saturday. I mean, it has been fun to kind of watch as a neutral from the outside, but it doesn't strike me as the best signs of what's been going on there. I mean, is that a fair portrayal of what it's been like, do you think, in that dressing room and around the squad? I don't think all the weird fighting is sort of necessarily indicative of a fractured dressing room or of players who sort of hate their manager necessarily.

you know if you look at the last two defeats actually I think they were probably still playing for him they deserved a draw at West Ham on Monday night they had some rough luck with refereeing decisions shock and then they're probably the better team against Ipswich they were pushing for a late winner if they win 2-1 who knows what happens instead they're old bugbear set pieces and they concede late and Gary Neal gets sacked so I think the issue is he's been unable to manage certain aspects yes their discipline you know he's had to strip Mario Lamina of the captaincy but

He's managed the goalkeeper situation awfully. Jose Sarr and Sam Johnson have been sort of rotated randomly and both been messed around a bit, in my opinion. But crucially, the big problem has been the defence. He's been unable to manage the defence. They're conceding at least two every game. 16 goals from set pieces already this season is unfathomable, really. And I don't know if you heard him on Match of the Day on Saturday night, Gary Neal, basically saying...

He's told them where to stand on corners and they're standing somewhere else. So once that's happening and they're not listening to him anymore, I don't think they dislike him, but they're not listening to him. So look, nice guy, decent manager. I just think he lacks a bit of authority, a bit of charisma and a bit of tactical now for the top, top level. It's done him a bit of a service to, to bid him off. I think he's looked absolutely pained in recent weeks. I wrote the other night that,

He looks like he's got 1,000 mini Gary O'Neills inside him just sort of prodding at his internal organs and chastising him for making decisions. He looks in pain. Bless him. Who would be a football manager? It'll be interesting to see where he rocks up next and how that goes. Phil as well with...

As well as Gary O'Neill, of course, it was Russell Martin who was sacked following their Southamptons embarrassing 5-0 defeat at home to Tottenham. Russell Martin, was he too principled really to deal with a newly promoted side in the Premier League? That feels like the easier assumption almost to make. Too principled feels like a rather rich way of describing it, I think. It almost makes it sound like a virtue, you know, that you have this philosophy that you're totally wedded to and you stick to and that is a good thing.

I think you can make that argument if your team are competitive and you're on the cusp. I mean, I saw it to the nth degree with Marcelo Bielsa. He was the most principled coach when it came to playing the way that you play, sticking to the way that you play, never bending from it. But even though he was sacked in that season when Leeds were relegated, they were always on the cusp of the bottom three. They were never adrift in the way that Southampton have been this season. And I don't think you can be that bad and concede anything

some of the goals that Southampton have conceded while standing and saying, look, these are my principles and I stick to them. I mean, long story short, that gets you sacked. Football clubs do not want a manager who delivers those sort of performances and those type of results. I think the strange thing is that

Wool seemed quite pragmatic about O'Neill. They didn't seem completely tied to philosophy with him or anything else. It seemed to be this idea that perhaps he can get this together and perhaps he can sort it out to a degree that keeps us going and gets us back in the mix. Whereas

Whereas Southampton almost seem to be saying, we believe in Martin to such an extent that we're going with this and we're going to stick with it no matter what anybody else thinks. Except they clearly didn't believe in it because they've sacked him last night and they had no choice to do that after the game against Spurs. They've done it at a point where they've let it run so far that, you know, it's going to be very difficult, if not impossible for them to stay up from here.

And I think whereas with a bit more pragmatism, you can see what's happening with Ipswich and Kieran McKenna. He is at least giving them a chance and putting them in the right sort of position. They was never working under Russell Martin and this had to happen. I agree with Tim. I think we was hung on at least a week too long with Gary O'Neill. Somebody else could have had West Ham away and Ipswich at the weekend. With Martin, this should probably have happened sooner.

a while ago and I really don't understand why it didn't. Principles and a philosophy are one thing but you can work around the edges can't you? That is the pragmatism isn't it? It's not necessarily forgoing your principles but it's Phil being able to coach the bits that make it work regarding your circumstances otherwise you're just kind of horribly naive and I guess what we see which is like Southampton giving away horrible goals for like 20 games.

Well that's it and eventually it will get you fired that is how it goes and one of the interesting things about Bielsa was that he basically took the attitude that I'll go out on my shield with this quite happily this is how I play but the point was that particularly in the first season in the Premier League Leeds were uber competitive in

in that season, far less so in his second season but we're still winning games from time to time, we're still picking up points whereas with Southampton it wasn't even going like that their form has been so poor that five points from 16 games realistically they're probably not going to stay up from here which begs the question of why anybody at Southampton thought it was a good idea to let it run to the point where it had to get so bad as it did yesterday, five goals in the first half against Tottenham that

You have no choice but to act. I was chuckling away at the tweet from Jay Harris, our Tottenham writer, who was saying that the crowd were chanting for Martin to give them a wave, which he did, at which point they booed him. That is the depth that it had gone to.

And as I say, it had to happen, but it's been a long time coming and it's been too late. It's a good example of a position becoming untenable right there. Okay, next up, we will delve deeper into where things went wrong for O'Neill at Wolves. ♪

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Gary O'Neill there, speaking with the BBC after Wolves' defeat to Ipswich at the weekend. We had an episode on the feed after the Everton defeat a few weeks back, Phil, and you spoke then about being worried about Gary O'Neill's long-term prospects. What have you made of O'Neill's comments and then the demeanour from him in the last few weeks, Phil?

I thought what he said after Everton did him quite a lot of credit. He spent a lot of time talking about how it was essentially his responsibility and his fault, but he did it in a way which didn't stray into that kind of habitual thing that coaches do of saying, look, this is my responsibility, but actually everybody else is to blame. He did seem to be saying, it's me that you should be pointing the finger at.

What I noticed at the weekend was that there seemed to be this kind of large degree of separation opening between him and the players and that he seemed to be starting to say, look, as Tim mentioned earlier, I'm telling them to do this and they're not. You know, saying that I'm struggling to get them to do the basics and I've never had this before, you know, as if to say it's them, they are the problem, not me. He was talking about players potentially going in January. Obviously, it's not going to come to that on his watch because he's been sacked.

But there did suddenly seem to be that divide between him and the camp. And I have to say, when you've reached the point where every game is ending in a punch-up and you've had to strip your captain of the armband, it's time to go, isn't it? And it's time for a fresh start. And it's hard to know from my distance, it's hard to know what the discipline is like in the dressing room. But to the naked eye and in plain sight, it doesn't look good. And Pereira's got a really big job on coming in to try and sort this out. But yeah, I think...

I think we all knew that O'Neill was probably finished after the Everton game. There was no way back. I think what was being said on Saturday absolutely made the point, you know, Tim referenced this, that he was done and for his own sake as much as anybody else, he needed to be replaced. I think for me, Tim, the interesting thing he said was it kind of stated that the players were struggling to cope with this level and that basically they weren't good enough. It wasn't even like a, I'm struggling, he was saying, to get them up to the level they need to be because they're just not there, which...

basically a damning indictment of the

the squad he's got to play with because he's basically saying they're not the requisite quality which I guess then comes down to summer doesn't it I mean what did you make of the summer transfer business because I know Maximilian Kilman and Pedro Neto both left and I guess it's then questionable about what replacements they brought in and whether they were good enough or whether they were indeed there or not I think the bulk of the squad is good enough to be mid-table mid-table yeah absolutely when you look at Lamina and Jai Gomez one of the best tacklers in the

you've got Jagome as an Andre in the Brazil team and they're also in the Wolves team you've got Cunha you've got Juan who had a great goal scoring season last season Sarabia who's contributed pretty well from time to time Aitnori Samedo decent goalkeepers in theory I think if you look at their midfield their attack and their fullbacks they should be mid-table basically however they have got some glaring holes particularly in defence I mean yeah the Neto sale obviously hurt them I mean he was their best player last season but

and they sold him for 50 million and replaced him with a couple of youngsters who've done absolutely nothing so that's bad but goals aren't really an issue actually until recently they were on to

to score 63 this season I think until last week or the week before the strike rate they were on they were going to head for 63 which no team managed outside the top 7 last season so scoring goals not a problem really but the defence they made a huge error that we all saw at the time they sold Maximilian Kilmer for 40 million they replaced him with Yursa Mosquera a fairly young and inexperienced centre-back Colombian who'd been on loan at Villarreal last season and

and then Mosqueri did his ACL he's out for the season and they've only got three centre-backs left they are Craig Dawson two own goals at Everton I think his best days are behind him unfortunately 33-34 now Santi Bueno who they were happy to loan out this summer and he's definitely not Premier League standard and Totti Gomez who's error prone had a couple of injuries and not up to it either so those are the only three centre-backs they currently have

When you throw in two attack-minded full-backs either side of them in Semedo and Ait Nouri and a dodgy goalkeeper behind them, then you can see the problem, to be honest. So that is mitigation for O'Neill. He's been left high and dry on that front. Yeah, the recruitment was a mess in the summer. They bought players they didn't need to, like Sam Johnston for 10 million in goal when they had Jose Sarr. And even Andre in midfield, you could say, 20 million Brazilian midfielder when they already had two good midfielders, plus Tommy Doyle. So...

strange summer of recruitment to say the least and that is in mitigation for O'Neill for sure. Do you feel like that's bringing some of the heat then on Fosun and the ownership at the club? It sounds like maybe that dissent from the supporter base has maybe

turned up a little bit recently I don't know if that's fair but I mean and is that like that's an underlying issue there as well yeah Saturday was toxic anti-Fosun chants anti-Jeff Shee chants Jeff Shee used to be a regular at every home game every away game pretty much every under 23 game and a lot of under 18s games he's basically he's not stopped turning up now but you rarely see him and I don't think he was there on Saturday certainly wasn't sat out in their directors box which is a terrible look you know the owners or the chairman just stopped turning up

It's a weird one. Tim, can I just ask, does that imply then that Folsom would exit from this if they could? If they had a way out of this? You know, Matt Slater wrote, I think just a month or two ago, that Wolves have sort of quietly been on the market for a year now. I think if the right offer came in, they would take it.

I mean, it's a strange one. You look at Wolves on a sort of a stable financial footing. Fosun have written off debt. They've sorted out PSR issues. They've taken Wolves to heights I thought I'd probably never see. But three years have drifted and the fans won't have gone. So it's a strange one. But then, you know, you scratch a little under the surface and you see the general impression is that they've lost interest, that they've stopped investing.

that the club has to be self-sustainable, that they're not bothered about anything other than sort of staying up, and they're more interested in esports and other areas of growth within Fosun. Plus, adding to that, they've been disparaging to fans in terms of increasing season ticket prices and saying, if you want to support a club that wins trophies, you might as well go somewhere else. They've literally said that.

Yeah, there was a massive red flag about five years ago when they decided not to expand the stadium or modernise the stadium. Molyneux might look quite nice on the telly, but if you've ever sat in the away end, the one that's opposite the camera or the away side, that stand was built in 1979. The club deemed it unfit for purpose.

in 2018 it's got Victorian foundations it's very far from the pitch it's horrific but word came back to me that Fosun you know won't knock it down and rebuild it because it would take 20 years to earn a return on that investment that suggests to me that they're more interested in the value of the club than really making you know fundamental changes to the infrastructure and now they've stopped investing in the team so it's been drifting for about three years now and fans have caught on to it and they're having to pay more money to watch worse football so yeah

Owners not popular at the moment and I completely understand why. That is a sobering thought which does bring us on to what we'll get on to in a moment which is the man set to replace O'Neill at Molyneux, Vito Pereira.

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So as we heard from David Ornstein earlier, Vitor Pereira is set to replace Gary O'Neill at Molineux. Following on from Ruben Amorim, it'll be another Portuguese manager heading to the Premier League. Here's The Athletic's football tactics writer, Michael Cox, on the influx of Portuguese coaches into English football. Vitor Pereira will become the fourth Portuguese manager in the Premier League this season, joining Ruben Amorim, Marco Silva and Nuno Espirito Santo. And previously, there's been the likes of Bruno Laga, Kylian Mbappé,

Carlos Carvalho, Andre Villas-Boas and of course Jose Mourinho. So why does English football love Portuguese coaches so much? Well, the main reason is that they tend to be pretty good. In Portugal, there's a big emphasis upon education in general. Coaches are looked on

really with great respect and coaches are considered to be people who can add to a player's qualities rather than taking away from it. I think traditionally in English football we talk about coaches in terms of holding players back. In Portugal they just don't have that same impression. It's notable for example that managers in Portugal actually wear captain's armband which gives them almost a kind of a greater significance than they have in English football. And of

of Jose Mourinho. Portuguese coaches didn't go abroad that much before Mourinho came to England 20 years ago, but he really opened doors for Portuguese coaches across the world. In terms of philosophy, Portuguese coaches generally like structure and systems. They speak about football in, yeah, quite a structured way. They don't generally like to give players too much freedom. They like formations and

and they generally play with great width. Portugal traditionally produces lots of top class wingers and quite a key Portuguese concept which has become standard really across Europe these days is the concept of periodization which was

It was really invented by an academic called Vitor Freyde and that was about rather than splitting physical drills, technical drills, psychological drills and tactical drills, every training session was meant to encompass all four concepts. That is a fairly standard thing now but it was very much a Portuguese invention. And of course Vitor Pereira will be going into a dressing room that is very much Portuguese speaking. So far this season Wolves have used 11 players that are either Portuguese or Brazilian.

That was Michael Cox on the impact of Portuguese coaches on the Premier League. Joining us now to give us the lowdown on Vitor Pereira, it's a pleasure to welcome the executive editor of Record, David Novo. Thank you so much for joining us. How has the news of Vitor Pereira heading to Wolves been greeted in Portugal?

Hello guys, thanks for having me. Let me just say that Michael Cox spoke about Portuguese football better than I can speak. He's the perfect description about Portuguese football, Portuguese coaches and

They are good. It's true. It's a little bit, it's strange for, not strange, but for a Portuguese guy to say that the Portuguese are good, but the managers are really good. About Vitor Pereira, well, it was a little bit of a surprise for us. Of course, it's not about Vitor's ability to manage at the biggest stage, but the truth is that Vitor is...

has been a little bit far from the big five. He made his choices, of course, we have to respect that. But his career was mainly, you saw the teams he managed, Saudi Arabia, China, Germany, but not at the top level. He had Fenerbahce, of course, Olympiacos, of course, they are big, big teams, but not in the biggest championships. But of course, I think that he was

waiting for this move for a long time ago. I think that all of you guys remember the Everton connections more than once. I think that the first time that he left for Saudi Arabia, for example, and I think that 11 years ago, he was expecting to go to Everton, for example, but then Everton chose Roberto Martinez,

And the thing is, I believe that, of course, he has the ability to manage at the Premier League. He didn't want to wait for this opportunity before, or maybe the offers were not those...

he would like. I don't know. He admitted recently that he doesn't have the patience to wait for the right opportunities. Maybe that's why he made this path a different path. Of course, also Brazil. I forgot to mention Brazil. Of course, it was a little bit of a surprise for us. We're not expecting Vitor to... He was

far at Saudi Arabia, but he deserves a shot. He deserves a chance at the Premier League just to show he can handle the Premier League. I think he's a guy that can deliver a good job at the Premier League. I'm sure, Tim, it's a job that's popped up and maybe Vito feels it's a good moment for him. What's your confidence like in him being the right person at the right time for Wolves? I think it's pretty hard to predict. Looking at his career,

13 clubs. He's had obviously big success at Porto. Olypio Arcas has won league titles in Shanghai with China. All there's been, you know, real disasters. I mean, relegated with 1860 Munich.

I think Fenerbahce were fifth in the league when he left them, which is obviously unacceptable for them. And a really, really bad season with Flamengo last year in Brazil where it only lasted sort of three months. So, and I think that's because of his personality. He seems very sort of fiery, explosive, a kind of a love or hate figure. He'll take on players. He'll take on journalists, you know. So I think everything will either sort of click and it'll go really well. And the many Portuguese and Brazilian players will respond to him and

Or it could be carnage, I think. It's definitely got sort of Remy Garda, Aston Villa or Felix Magath at Fulham vibes to me. But Wolves need a new voice. There's no doubt about that. And hopefully he can be the man. But it's certainly not going to be boring. I read a passage in a book called A Journey Through Portuguese Football by Tom Cundon, which came out a few years ago. And Pereira said,

said in it just as a reflection of his sort of intensity and what an emotional guy he is he said he's unable to separate football and his personal life he takes his problems home with him sometimes I'm at home in body but I'm absent because my mind is thinking about football I've become socially introverted I'm aware of that ideas come to me in my sleep I wake up and write them down it's an illness it's an obsession and it's exhausting so that just gives you an idea into the kind of

intense guy that he is. But, as David says, he's been waiting for this chance for many, many years and he will jump at it and he will give it absolutely everything. Does that characterisation ring bells with you, David? For sure, yeah. Vitor is an explosive guy. He...

He says what he has to say to the players, to the press. You can remember some press conferences that are viral, for example, in YouTube at Saudi Arabia, here in Portugal also. And of course, in Brazil, well, Vitor had that spell where he left Corinthians saying that he had...

personal issues and then came back to Brazil to manage Flamengo so like they felt like a betrayal so but of course he's a team sub perfectly he's explosive guy intense obsessed with football he admitted

several times in several interviews. Is that good? I don't know. It can be bad if, for example, the results are not what the fans expect, of course, and the board and the players and all the structure. I think that Tim spoke about a thing. He's waiting a long time for this chance.

just give him the chance and let's see of course the middle of the season it's not the same of beginning in the season and to build a squad but also like Tim said a lot of Portuguese players we know that Wolverhampton has this Portuguese connection with players also with managers in the past also Brazilian players South American players of course that for Victor is who also is English now really better I think that

In the past, one of the things that stopped him from going to the Premier League was his English was not enough to manage in England and to speak with the press and with the players. But now he improved a lot also in this language aspect. So let's see. Of course, I know that Vovoremte is not going well this season. That's why they are changing the manager, but...

Let's see. Really interesting point on the communication as well, David. Phil, with Wolves Portuguese Links being so well established, are you a little bit surprised Sergio Conceição wasn't the man that has got the nod or maybe been mentioned?

That's quite hard to answer without knowing what's in Conte Sau's mind. I mean, his stock is good from my perspective. And I think you have to ask exactly how appealing the job at Wolves is. It's a door and an avenue for Vitor Pereira into the Premier League, there's no doubt about that. And quite clearly from what David and Tim have been saying, this is where he wants to be or where he hoped to be at some stage. But I think certainly my experience of managers, and this has become more and more true over the years,

Managers like it if they can take a job that gives them some form of project. And just to go back to something Tim mentioned at the start, you know, Bournemouth getting rid of Gary O'Neill and potentially Wolves could have done the same in the summer.

I think the slight difference is that Bournemouth seem to have a strategy and a plan for Areola, whereas at Wolves, there doesn't really seem to be one in the same way. And that's probably epitomised by the fact that, yet again, you know, in need of a solution, the question is, what does Mendes have up his sleeve? And dare I say, when January comes round,

might we see some more Mendes clients appearing into the dressing room because Wolves definitely need reinforcements and that would seem to me to be the best avenue to get decent players who can help them out but I think it does just add to the feeling that Wolves are in this cycle that they're not likely to break out of any time soon and you know in case Conce saw I saw him linked to West Ham

when Lopetegui was looking like he was in trouble as well. And there have to be jobs out there that Conte Sao would be considered for that would be better than this one. David, if I can come to you, I mean, should Pereira be appointed, that's going to be four out of the 20 Premier League managers who will be Portuguese. And as we heard from Michael Cox, why do you think Portuguese managers have done so well in the Premier League?

Depend on the case, of course, we had Marco Silva going from above to the top with Ul City, of course, then Watford, Everton and now with Fulham. We have the Hulbens example. It's a different one. It's like going to the top straight away to Man United.

Also Nuno Espirito Santo had great, great achievements with Wolverhampton. Not so good with Tottenham. And then, of course, now really, really good with Nottingham Forest. So different managers, different examples. But bottom line, I know Michael Cox said it perfectly. Portuguese managers study a lot. We have here in Portugal...

a lot of good reviews about the manager's school, about the training experience that they have. For us, it's always, we are always proud of them because we know that one thing is to manage in Portugal. Another thing is to go to the Premier League.

Even for the smaller clubs. For us to see Ruben winning against Pep Guardiola means a lot for us, Portuguese, to have Nuno doing a terrific job at Nottingham Forest, of course, really good for us. Marco Silva establishing himself in the Premier League for so many years.

And I think that maybe that gives some clubs that curiosity, that think, well, let's try a Portuguese manager. Phil spoke about Sergio Conceição, linked with Wolverhampton, of course, due to George Mendes, of course, his manager, his agents. Also, he spoke about Sergio Conceição, I believe, West Ham, Wolverhampton, some links. I believe that he's not going to manage this season, but I think he's...

preparing himself for next season also with the Premier League or Serie A in Italy in his mind. But maybe that's it. The English clubs want to try if this Portuguese coach can handle the situation. We have to mention of course those managers that Brunelage at Wolverhampton was of course not maybe what people were expecting. But

But the truth is that we are exporting for several years. We have the players going to the Premier League, managers, we have the sporting directors. We do Vienna next year. We are doing things in the proper way and we are making the next step. And maybe that should be a role model for English coaches, Tim, because on the flip side of the new recruitments...

the number of English managers in the Premier League has halved in one day. And actually, my mind then thinks to, of course, the top job in England, which will be managed by Thomas Tuchel from here on in. And we've got Eddie Howe and Sean Dyche as the remaining Premier League managers who are English. Should we be concerned about this and the development of

our own coaching talent? Yeah, I think so. I mean, Eddie Howe being one of those two took him sort of 10 years to come up from League Two. He had to seriously earn that chance. I mean, other countries have been ahead of the English coaching structure for many, many years. You know, I think we're still playing catch up in that regard. Obviously, the Premier League has the most money and the best coaches and hires the best coaches with that money, which limits opportunities. The coaching courses in this country are also, you know, prohibitively expensive, which has been sort of widely publicised recently, but obviously,

Yeah, it's pretty embarrassing. No managers won the English Premier League, as people will know. Since 1992, only six English managers have won a domestic trophy, and none since, I think, 2008. I think Harry Redknapp was maybe the last. And then you're looking at managers from a bygone era, like Joe Royal and Brian Little and Roy Evans, you know, for others. It's been a long time.

And yet we've got, you know, Steve Cooper won the under-17 World Cup with England a few years ago and Lee Carsley won the under-21 Euros a couple of years ago. But neither of those guys have got a job in club football at the moment. It's a bit confusing, really. Michael Cox mentioned earlier about...

Portuguese coach, he's been very well respected. And obviously the opposite is true, I think, of English coaches. He also talked about education. And I think, again, we're not quite up to scratch in this country. It may be a case, I mean, we've seen the reputation of English players has improved in recent years, partly due to the likes of Jadon Sancho and Jude Bellingham and Jamie Gittins now going abroad regularly.

for those to find those avenues and those opportunities I think that may be the next step for English coaches to try and get jobs abroad and improve their reputation that way because there are just very limited opportunities here in England That's a brilliant point Tim and that's a great place to end this I think there is plenty more to come on the changes at Wolves as well as who Southampton may go for that's over on The Athletic in the meantime a huge thank you to David to Tim and Phil for their company and thank you all for listening we'll be back tomorrow

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