cover of episode Who needs the FA Cup most this season?

Who needs the FA Cup most this season?

2025/1/10
logo of podcast The Athletic FC Podcast

The Athletic FC Podcast

People
A
Adam Leventhal
D
David Ornstein
G
George Caulkin
J
Jack Pitbrooke
M
Mark Critchley
S
Simon Johnson
T
Tim Spiers
Topics
Adam Leventhal: 我们讨论了本赛季哪些英超球队最需要足总杯。托特纳姆热刺和纽卡斯尔联队在《The Athletic》的“重要性计”中名列前茅,两队都有可能在联赛杯决赛中相遇。卫冕冠军曼联将前往酋长球场挑战14次夺冠的阿森纳,阿森纳自2020年夺冠后从未进入足总杯第四轮。阿尔特塔本赛季需要一座奖杯吗?鲁本·阿莫林的进步如何衡量?此外,我们还讨论了伯恩茅斯和布伦特福德的夺冠可能性,以及足总杯是否失去了魔力。 Tim Spiers: 我热爱足总杯,它带给我许多美好的回忆。然而,赛程安排、缺乏重赛以及球队轮换等问题,都对足总杯的魅力造成了一定程度的损害。 Mark Critchley: 足总杯对不同球队的重要性不同。对于一些球队来说,赢得奖杯比联赛排名更重要,而对于另一些球队来说,则更注重球队的整体进步和发展。 Jack Pitbrooke: 对于托特纳姆热刺来说,足总杯非常重要,因为联赛战绩不佳,而波斯特科格鲁也表示会在第二个赛季赢得奖杯。 George Caulkin: 纽卡斯尔联队渴望赢得奖杯,这不仅是为了庆祝,也是为了展现球队自收购以来的进步。 Simon Johnson: 切尔西需要赢得奖杯来证明球队正走在正确的道路上,并重拾昔日的辉煌。

Deep Dive

Key Insights

Why do Tottenham and Newcastle lead The Athletic's FA Cup Import-o-meter?

Tottenham and Newcastle lead the Import-o-meter because their fans view winning the FA Cup as highly important. Tottenham fans, in particular, see it as crucial due to their poor recent record in the competition, having not won it since 1991 and not reached a final since then. Newcastle fans also crave a domestic trophy, as the club hasn't won one in 70 years.

What is the significance of the FA Cup for Arsenal this season?

The FA Cup holds significant importance for Arsenal as they seek to end a five-season trophy drought. Despite their recent struggles in the competition, with no progress past the fourth round since 2020, 85% of Arsenal fans consider winning the FA Cup important. It’s seen as a way to validate the progress Mikel Arteta has made with the team.

How does the FA Cup factor into Manchester United's season under Ruben Amorim?

For Manchester United, the FA Cup is less of a priority compared to laying the foundations for Ruben Amorim’s long-term vision. While 36% of United fans see it as important, 39% consider it not important. The focus is on rebuilding and establishing Amorim’s style, rather than short-term trophy success.

Why is the FA Cup particularly important for clubs like Bournemouth and Brentford?

For clubs like Bournemouth and Brentford, the FA Cup represents a rare opportunity to win a major trophy. Bournemouth, who have never won a major trophy, see it as a chance for glory despite only 25% of their fans voting it as very important. Brentford, with a strong home record, could also make a deep run if they avoid resting key players in early rounds.

Has the FA Cup lost its magic in recent years?

The FA Cup has faced criticism for losing some of its magic due to scheduling changes, replays being scrapped, and teams often resting key players. However, it still holds special significance for lower-league clubs and fans, providing memorable giant-killing moments and runs that create lifelong memories.

Chapters
Sean Dyche's departure from Everton is discussed, analyzing the timing, the reasons behind it, and the potential appointment of David Moyes as his replacement. The discussion includes Everton's financial situation and their upcoming move to a new stadium.
  • Sean Dyche's departure from Everton
  • David Moyes as potential replacement
  • Everton's financial situation
  • New stadium move

Shownotes Transcript

Translations:
中文

This episode is brought to you by Shopify. Upgrade your business with Shopify, home of the number one checkout on the planet. ShopPay boosts conversions up to 50%, meaning fewer cards going abandoned and more sales going cha-ching. So if you're into growing your business, get a commerce platform that's ready to sell wherever your customers are. Visit Shopify.com to upgrade your selling today.

Hey everyone, it's Robert Mace. The NFL playoffs are here, and we've got you covered on The Athletic Football Show. From wildcard weekend all the way through Super Bowl 59, my co-host Derek Claston and I will guide you through every game, matchup, and big-time performance on the way to one team lifting the Lombardi Trophy in New Orleans. Catch The Athletic Football Show wherever you listen to podcasts. The Athletic FC Podcast Network.

Hi there, I'm Adam Leventhal. Welcome to the Athletic FC preview, focused on the FA Cup third round this weekend, discussing which Premier League side needs it the most this season. With me today, and great to be reunited with the Athletics, Tim Spears. How are you, Tim? I haven't seen you for ages. I mean, I'm here. I'm in the office. We're waiting for you as always.

You're still there at home. Yeah, yeah. We will reunite in person. Maybe I'll give you a new t-shirt at some point as I did last year. And also alongside Tim, we have our Manchester United writer, Mark Critchley. How are you? Good. Thank you very much. Still trying to ease my way in back after Christmas and just get up to speed, but just about managing it, I think.

Good. Well, hopefully the FA Cup spirit will sort of warm us all up because it is very cold at the moment in the UK. Before we get stuck into the FA Cup stuff, just to mark, obviously, that on Thursday, Sean Dyche left his role as the Everton boss. Leighton Baines and Seamus Coleman were in charge for their FA Cup win against Belfast.

Peterborough 2-0 they won. Let's just check in with the Athletics. David Ornstein speaking on the Athletics daily football briefing. What we know is that it really came to a head after the Bournemouth defeat last weekend with Dyche expressing to the new ownership, the Friedking Group at Goodison Park, that he felt he had taken the team as far as he could. Now they didn't object to that.

But they didn't agree with him on his payoff, the severance. Is he going to resign? Will he be sacked? And that's why there were talks in recent days to try and resolve it. Those talks came to a conclusion on Thursday, and that explains the timing.

Where did Everton go next? Well, the top choice of the Friedkin Group is David Moyes, Everton's former manager. What a story that would be. Well, it looks like it's going to come to fruition because they're pressing ahead with negotiations. There's optimism that an agreement will be reached. It hasn't at the time of recording. And they want to install their new man, and ideally him, as soon as possible so that they can crack on with this deal

bid to avoid relegation and try and salvage something from the campaign. Then they will look to build towards the future, a future they will hope will be bright because they're moving into their new stadium at Bramley Mordor from next summer. So there's never a dull moment at Everton, whether it be managerial changes, financial crises, PSR charges and plenty more besides. But what we do know is that Sean Dyche's reign is over and it could be that the second coming

of David Moyes is upon us. So let's get your reaction, gents, to the decision that Dyche has gone. Tim?

Right time, right thing. I don't know about right time, three hours before a match. It's really, really strange. I guess we'll see pretty quickly if it was the right decision, i.e. can his replacement, whoever that is, get a tune out of these players? Can they start scoring? Had the players sort of just stopped listening to him, which kind of looked like it was the case, really. I guess we've seen a couple of examples of

contrasting ends of that spectrum recently you know Gary O'Neill saying at Wolves this is the most I can get out of these players when they were losing four in a row he said literally I can't get more out of them and then Vito Pereira comes in and

And a fresh voice completely changes things up. Or you look at Man United where the issues are probably a little bit deeper and a little bit more systemic and it's taken Ruben Amrim some time to start to get a tune out of them. So I think both of those are probably true at Everton maybe. But if you look at Sean Dicey's record of keeping bad teams in the Premier League, he's pretty good at it.

And you could see them staying up under him. It would have been horrible. It would have been a real tough grind. But I think they would have stayed up.

So yeah, it's an absolutely massive decision. Either way, they could have said thanks in their statement. I thought four paragraphs basically saying he's gone. I think Everton are the only club in the Premier League in the last two seasons that have made money in the transfer market. They're in the green for their net spend. He's had a horrible job to do. He's kept them up. They're not in the relegation zone right now. They can't even say thanks in their statement. I thought that was pretty harsh.

And Critch, David Moyes being the top target as revealed by David Ornstein, does that feel right for you? I don't hate it, if I'm totally honest. I don't hate it. I think that I take everything Tim said there, absolutely. I think with this squad that Everson have at the minute, it's built towards a certain style of football. You would say that they aren't absolutely worlds apart, the Dyche brand of football and the Moyes brand of football. In fact...

I think it was a stat on Monday Night Football the other night that said since the start of last season, Everton had only scored, I think it was like 26 open play goals since the start of last season, which was almost half the amount of the next team. And the next team was West Ham, who, you know, two thirds of that time had been managed by David Moyes. So I think you could imagine him getting a tune out of them. Obviously, you can't really write a love story. They say, you know, never go back to an ex, all that. But

I think people look at the job that Moyes did at West Ham not only in his most recent spell but in the one before that as well

built a solid team that was maybe not you know fanboyant maybe didn't get fans up off their seats but it it got the job done and I realise that we're using a lot of the same arguments that were made to when Dyche got the job in the first place but I think that is sort of just what this Everton squad is tailored to and what the situation demands at the minute and I think that's

short-term deal whatever it may be until the end of the season to get a familiar face in somebody who can't believe I'm saying this but knows the club I think it's not the worst shout well we'll see how it pans out and we'll continue to cover the Everton story also worth mentioning as well start of a new era at West Ham David Moyes' former club with Lopetegui out and Graham Potter coming in as well and there's plenty of coverage on the Athletic of that as well now

You may have seen the Athletic has dropped something rather special on this FA Cup weekend. And it is, depending on how you say it, the import-o-meter. That's how we're saying it. Is that right, Tim? Import-o-meter or import-o-meter?

That sounds like someone who runs an import-export business, so I'm not sure about that. So what do you think it is? Importometer. Importometer. Importometer just sounds more technical and more official, I think. I would go with that. Okay, so it is the Athletics FA Cup Importometer, where fans of all 20 Premier League teams were asked how important winning the FA Cup would be this season, with fans able to vote yes.

Three categories, very important, important or not important. And the results are now in. And it may not come as a surprise that top of the list are Tottenham with just 8% of fans voting that it was not important. Before we get Tim and Mark's verdicts on this and we'll spin out through a few of the other teams as well, let's get the thoughts of our Spurs writer Jack Pitbrook.

I think the FA Cup is hugely important to Tottenham Hotspur this season, probably more so than ever before really.

Spurs have got a really poor record in the FA Cup in recent years. They haven't won it, obviously, since 1991. They haven't even reached a final since 1991. But I think this year it really matters, firstly, because the league form is so bad, so the focus does naturally turn to the Cup. Secondly, Postacoglu has said that he always wins something in his second season. I think that kind of sets a high bar for himself.

In recent years, I don't think they've taken this competition seriously enough. They got knocked out in 2023 by a much-changed Sheffield United side, which is really, I think, the beginning of the end for Antonio Conte. He didn't last too long after that. So I think it's going to become a big deal if they keep progressing, and I think it's very important to their fans that they have a good go at it this year.

Yeah, so Tim, as Jack mentioned there, Postacoglu says he always wins a trophy in his second season. So he does need to win one this season if he's to keep that bravado up. Obviously, they're decently set in the Carabao Cup, but this is another big opportunity for him. He'll be going hell for leather to win it, won't he? Yeah, I would have thought so. And Tottenham do strike me as, in theory, a pretty decent cup team. Obviously, on their day,

can beat anyone as we've seen you know they've beaten

Liverpool, a very, very strong Liverpool team this week. They obviously beat Man City away 4-0 recently. They can beat anyone on their day. I don't think... I mean, he needs it to sort of back up. He's going to look a bit silly, obviously, if they don't win something this season. But he doesn't need it to save his job, I don't think. They just need... He needs signs of progress probably in this second year. But obviously the club need a trophy. The fans need a trophy. No league for 64 years. No FA Cup for 34 years. It's just...

ridiculous for a club of their size and you know of their spending power in recent years but obviously you say they're a lot closer than the Carabao and people may even if they win that people will sort of mock and say it's only the League Cup but the fact that they've beaten United beaten City and

would have beaten Liverpool and Newcastle to win that trophy would give them some serious validation. It would be an incredible achievement, I think, if they were to win that. Having said all that, it would be very, very, very Spurs-y to beat Liverpool in the week and lose to Tamworth on Saturday. So we'll see. But I agree with Jack. The key is selecting a strong team because Spurs managers, for some reason, have not done that in the past, which I find pretty amazing. Just before I get Mark's take on it, just to be clear, did you say there that

even if they don't win a trophy, and Poster Cogley's claim of winning a trophy in his second season would fail, in either the Carabao or the FA Cup, that he still should keep his job? Yeah. It's not written in his contract that he's going to win a trophy. No, no, no, I know. So you think progress would be enough? So if progress is only able to be registered...

in the league? Or would people seeing getting to an FA Cup final or a Carabao Cup final, would that be... I'm not quite sure what you're saying. Tottenham haven't progressed this season. If they end up perhaps where they are in the table now, 12th, and then they don't win a trophy and Healy looks like he's actually going backwards. That's not progress, is it? Yeah, but it's all hypothetical. If they finish...

and get to two cup finals and have a decent run in Europe then that's a pretty strong season overall I would say Adam but for Postacoglu he would probably measure progress more on the style of football and whether his team are getting closer to

this evolution that he's trying to achieve over, you know, what, three or four years rather than just one or two. Okay. Mark, do you agree? I think the question with Tottenham and Postacoglu is more about where do you want this club to be and what is the next step that you ideally would like them to take? I think the aim has to be

returning to the level that they were under Pochettino, where they were consistently at least challenging and usually qualifying for the Champions League in top four, top five finishes. I think that's the next leap that Tottenham need to make after several years where they've been, you know, they went through the period of Mourinho and Conte and getting serial winners and let's get trophies now, didn't manage it. I think that has to be the priority. And the question is, is Ange the right guy to make that step? I actually think,

All being said, with the injuries that they've had to contend with recently, with the progress that you've seen made towards a style of play that is very different from those previous managers, I think that there's still a strong argument to say that he is the right guy for the job and that is almost not totally removed from performances on the pitch this season. Obviously, they're struggling at the moment, bottom half of the table, but I think there are enough mitigating factors and circumstances to say that

that, yeah, look, this guy is still trying to implement an idea with a very young squad of players and there's been progress made towards that. And so I think, for me, that would be reason enough to keep him. And then any trophy and any kind of...

cup run that you have on the back of that I think only stands in his favour as well so yeah I think there is still a strong case for keeping Anjan and I understand why there's been pressure and question marks over him recently but I think the wider context is one where are Spurs in a better place than they were before his arrival to make that step forward into becoming a regular top four team and I think yes they are. And also I mean Critch asked himself at the start of that you know what do Spurs want this club to be that's not up to Postacoglu

That's up to Daniel Levy, who's very much set in stone over two decades now, what he wants this club to be. One who's had a great emphasis on finances and stability in the ground and the training ground and Beyoncé concerts. That's been a huge focus for them rather than building a team of...

11 players to win a trophy you know and I think there's a lot of things out of Postacoglu's control recruitment being a massive one which we've talked about a lot on this podcast all season that we shouldn't judge him on but yeah we are he's the only one that people judge you know we're not judging the recruitment team here or Levy or anything to do with the culture of the club it's all about Postacoglu and that's just nonsense okay Tim is on Angers side this week

I like it. That's fine. That's all good. And it's interesting, aside from all of the chat about Posta Coglu, it's going to be a great occasion when Tottenham pitch up at National Leagueside Tamworth on Sunday. That is quite literally, and I know it's a cliche, but that is literally what the FA Cup third round is all about. ♪

You know what's smart? Enjoying a fresh gourmet meal at home that you didn't have to cook. Meet Factor, your loophole in the laws of mealtime. Chef-crafted meals delivered with a tap, ready in just two minutes. You know what's even smarter? Treating yourself without cheating your goals. Factor is dietician-approved, chef-prepared, and you-plated. Pretty smart, huh? Refresh your routine and eat smart with Factor. Learn more at factormeals.com.

The Apple Watch Series X is here. It has the biggest display ever. It's also the thinnest Apple Watch ever, making it even more comfortable on your wrist, whether you're running, swimming, or sleeping. And it's the fastest-charging Apple Watch, getting you eight hours of charge in just 15 minutes. The Apple Watch Series X, available for the first time in glossy jet black aluminum. Compared to previous generations, iPhone Xs are later required. Charge time and actual results will vary.

Now, second on the importometer were Newcastle, with just 10% of fans voting that it is not important. Here is the Athletic senior writer, George Colkin, who wrote the article itself. And it's a very, very funny intro. And there's lots of information in there, as per usual, from George. This is him on the importance of Newcastle winning a trophy.

I really love that Newcastle are so high in the Athletics FA Cupometer. They're fifth on the table after this magnificent run of theirs, so Europe is part of their thinking again. They're in the semi-final of the League Cup and I think in those circumstances, perhaps the expectation would be that the FA Cup falls back on their list of priorities, but...

Newcastle aren't a club who can pick and choose. I don't need anybody to remind me, thank you very much, that they haven't won a domestic trophy for 70 years. They yearn for one, they crave it. And...

I think they also need to be able to point post-takeover to progress. They need something to show for the money they've spent and all that work and effort. And I also think it tells a story in its own right because for years, Newcastle were a byword for mediocrity. Their existence was about ticking along in the Premier League. Now they're trying again. They may lose. We do, after all, have a very long and vivid history of losing. But they're trying. So bring it on.

Yeah, feeling of optimism from George and no surprise because Newcastle have beaten Aston Villa, Manchester United, Spurs and Arsenal in their last four games. And Tim, I was just looking back at their recent record. Obviously, it didn't go as well last season, but back in March, April 23, they won eight games.

out of nine in their run to European qualification in the Champions League when they finished fourth. Do you think that they're looking as impressive now as they were then? I think it's a more impressive job from Eddie Howe to turn this around. You know, from where they were a couple of months ago, you know, they couldn't buy a win. They looked so predictable. They looked so stale. And I think we were all just kind of assuming that, you know, the Saudi bubble had burst and, you

the fact that they'd had a summer of no recruitment basically and you know if you do that in the Premier League you basically go backwards Jacob Murphy was still their right winger after all these years and that was seen as a negative and then a few weeks later it's all completely turned on its head and now Jacob Murphy's a fantastic player again and they're playing with flair and confidence and injured players are back which helps that's a potentially template for Spurs actually you know in terms of get players back you can go on a run and climb the table quite quickly and

five wins has taken them from sort of 12th to 5th it is just form it's not necessarily going to last for the rest of season but they're in they're in an incredible sort of moment as as someone might disgustingly sort of say so yeah it's great for them and I think Arsenal confirmed the Arsenal game confirmed in the week that you know it's not just because they've beaten a few easy teams in the league and they've got some injured players but that they're on a good run it does feel like a little bit more permanent.

It feels this season, Mark, that they are best placed, doesn't it? Especially without European football. Obviously, we know that they've almost got one foot in the final after that first leg victory in the Carabao Cup over Arsenal. That will get the juices flowing as they kick off this FA Cup run and they don't have European football. So they're looking good for it, aren't they, this year in the FA Cup?

Yeah, I think qualifying for the Champions League two years ago was a massive landmark moment for the club, but also for the Saudi ownership, right? And there's obviously everything that they were aiming towards and pulling towards at that time.

But I think you saw the effect of that last season. I think you saw the effect of having a schedule on a squad that has been revamped certainly in the opening years of that since the takeover, but not so much since. I think you really saw that come to pay and there was a lot of injuries that they suffered last season. So coming into this one, having those three and mid weeks, we're always going to hugely benefit them.

When I was doing my pre-season predictions, I think I put them forth on basically just on that basis because I thought the game is just around physicality, right? Joe Linton plays at press, the way that they just harass and harry opponents. That was the basis really for all the success that they had under Howe when they qualified for the Champions League that season. I think you're starting to see a return to that now because they've got those three midweeks.

And so in that sense, I don't think it's a huge surprise that maybe they've kicked on a little bit or just improved from where they were because they've got that time. They've got that time to work on the training pitch and they're able to put that greater fitness and physicality into their games. And you're seeing that recently.

I know we're talking about the FA Cup this weekend but it is sort of inextricably linked especially when clubs have been such a long time without a trophy but I just wanted to dip back into the Carabao Cup with Tottenham and Newcastle looking good after their first legs and I know there's a long way to go but that

That's the final we want, isn't it, Tim? Tottenham against Newcastle in the Carabao Cup final. There'll be so much at stake. We know that one of those sets of fans will be ecstatic by the end of it. Yeah, the desperation derby. I think every football follower in the country who doesn't have a hatred of

or Spurs would want that final surely you know seeing and we talk about the FA Cup in this respect as well seeing City and United and Liverpool and Arsenal and

win every final you know invariably beating each other is is so monotonous and devalues the sort of competitions and the finals themselves really maybe it's my age adam but i don't really remember finals anymore to be honest the ones that sort of really stick out i mean liverpool chelsea in the sort of youth cup carabao cup final last year was pretty fun but otherwise you know

Sort of Leicester winning it in 2020 sticks out for me. And then going back a few years, like Swansea and Wigan and Birmingham winning it. They're the ones that me personally, I really remember. But Man City winning it four or five years in a row, I couldn't tell you many of those finals and who they beat. It's so boring. So yeah, I think Newcastle Spurs in the Cowboy Cup final would be one of the most watchable games of the whole season. Yeah, I was at one of them.

relatively recently and I've managed to try and wipe that from my memory I can't remember which one it was wouldn't it be embarrassing if you were already at the FA Cup before the third round weekend has even started by the way yeah well yeah exactly as Watford were they just sort of came dipped their toe in at Fulham and got the hell out of there concentrate on the league get back into the Premier League

Anyway, a word on Newcastle. Obviously, they're hosting League 2 Bromley, another great tie. And after the break, we're going to turn our attention to the big one in North London.

So the FA Cup holders Manchester United are heading to the Emirates to face record 14-time winners Arsenal, who since winning the FA Cup in 2020 have not progressed past the fourth round. And just 15% of Arsenal fans in our importometer voted not important.

Mikel Arteta's side potentially heading out of the Carabao Cup, 2-0 down after that first leg against Newcastle, six points off Liverpool in the title race. Liverpool have a game in hand as well. It does reflect a decent level of desire amongst those Arsenal fans to get a trophy, doesn't it, Tim? I think so. And just to sort of show something for what they've been building for three, four, five years now. As you say, their chances of the title are pretty slim. Same in the Champions League, you'd have to say.

I think their chances of the FA Cup are pretty slim too in terms of the way that they're playing and just not creating chances from open play at the moment. And yeah, it's funny how it's all sort of turning out at Arsenal. It was widely accepted that they only sort of needed tweaking from last season and maybe one or two additions and they're poised for the title. But one or two injuries has shown up a few of their faults. And as Jordan Campbell pointed out in a piece recently, they've focused recruitment perhaps a little bit too much on their defence. And now we're seeing...

The consequences of that in the lack of variety in attack and an over-reliance on Havertz, which is sort of an error, a foreseeable error, I think. So, yeah, Sunday's pretty big. I feel like...

There are some questions being asked of Mikel Arteta now more than there have been for quite a few years. And those questions will only get louder if they lose on Sunday. So five seasons without a trophy. For you, Mark, if it ends up that way, obviously things might turn around in the league and it would be great if Arsenal could win the Premier League. They might win the FA Cup. They might turn it around in the Carabao Cup. But five seasons without a trophy at the end of this season...

Would serious questions have to be asked of Arteta or are we just looking for cracks in something that is actually overall a pretty good operation at the moment? I think what it shows and demonstrates is that one of the hardest things in football is building a team to the point where they could win major honours internationally.

in the game like Premier League's, Champions League's for example. I know we're talking about the FA Cup today but that level of trophy, getting them to the brink of that but then actually getting them over the line, that is incredibly difficult and when I look at Arteta's Arsenal right now it reminds me slightly of Klopp's Liverpool but the position that they were in certainly before they won the Champions League in 2019 where you could see that there had been this amazing progress and that

They'd essentially done the hard bit in terms of getting the team to a level where you could rely on them to put 85 plus points up each season. I think that season they got 99 and still lost that title to City in 2019. It's about taking that final leap and that final step and

look we're saying do questions need to be asked and I think there's totally fair points to make about the way that Arteta has moulded this team the kind of character and the profile of it again it's full of centre backs it's you know very real light on set pieces these are all things the direction that they've taken that could be questioned but it's

look if we're seriously thinking that who is the best guy to get Mikel Arteta's Arsenal over the line and turn them into the type of team that wins Premier League titles and Champions League titles and trophies regularly it's got to be Mikel Arteta right? Surely. So I don't really buy this idea that there had to be

had to be questions of him if he doesn't finish with a trophy at the end of the season you can still see the progress that Arsenal are making and the vast progress that they have made towards getting to a point where they win the major honours that people actually care about I mean we're talking about like he hasn't already won the FA Cup five years ago right surely that's still got to count for something in this debate if he wins another one won't we could we just be having the same conversation in five years time it's about winning the major honours and that's what Arteta's still got to do but he's in my opinion he's still the right guy to do it at Arsenal.

Let's switch to Manchester United. In terms of the fans that answered the survey that we're talking about, a bit more of a split from United fans. 25% voted no.

it's very important winning the FA Cup. 36 voted important and 39% voted not important. Now, however much criticism there was of Eric Ten Haag, he did get domestic cup wins in back-to-back seasons. But do you think now...

Manchester United's league position, obviously their 13th, 12 points off the top five. And getting into Europe is the priority for Ruben Amorim. Or is this, again, like we've been talking about progress and maybe that takes a little bit more time. It's just trying to lay some foundations this season for the new manager.

I think you're exactly right with the last part of your question there about laying foundations. I think that has to be the priority above almost all else, whether it's league position, whether it's winning trophies, whether it's getting into Europe. I think that the poll results from the fans, from the United fans there, 39% saying it's not that important. I think that perfectly reflects that.

the journey that United have been on over the last nine months or so right winning that trophy yes look it cemented Eric Ten Haag's position did anyone seriously go into this season thinking it was going to go it was going to go well he went into the season under intense pressure to get results right from the off in order to justify that decision which a lot of people didn't see coming before they won that FA Cup we could see that in terms of this

this conviction that this guy was the right person to take the club onto the next step, that just wasn't there despite these trophy wins. And I think that is what Amorim needs to establish. He's come in with a great reputation, but he needs to persuade people that he is the right person to take this club forward because it's been a pretty mixed start at best, right? And I think you look at Europe now, 12 points off the top five, I think,

getting into the Champions League is going to be very difficult. Yes, you could win a cup and get through it that way, but I almost wonder if, given how much of the season has almost been compromised by that decision to keep Eric Ten Hag on and having to make the mid-season change, you almost wonder if would it just be better if United weren't in Europe next season, if they have three mid-weeks

If they just build towards Amrin's image, his style, his vision, there's a lot of work that needs to be done with that given he's changed so much with the system. That might actually be more beneficial than winning a trophy. Yeah, and currently, Tim, if you look at the run that Manchester United are on, six defeats out of their last nine, and that run actually started in the league game at the Emirates against Arsenal in which they lost 2-0. But in their last game against Liverpool...

We saw some spirit. We saw some fight from that Amarim side. So it's important this game that they try and build on that in terms of a little bit of incremental movement and momentum for their season, isn't it? Yeah, but that's been their problem for two seasons now. They can beat Man City and can get a good result at Anfield. They drew there last year as well. But it's the next two home games in the league that are the true test of

Southampton and Brighton at home you could easily see them conceding after five minutes home to Southampton and then it's all a bit of a wobble again do you know what I mean it's just that's just what they do at the moment so we'll see it was really encouraging last week but as always we're united it's it's one step forward and two steps back over the last sort of 15 18 months so uh so we'll see what's your prediction Tim United have conceded 13 in the last five so they do feel incapable of keeping a clean sheet I think one all

and Arsenal went on penalties. Okay. Yeah, of course, this season, the first season, without replays in the FA Cup third round. It started in the first round, incidentally, if people are interested. Mark...

What's your prediction? I've been quietly pretty impressed with the way that Amarim has set United up in these types of games, a way to, you know, kind of elite opposition, if you like. You know, not just Anfield last week. Obviously, they got the win at City. I think they had more possession than City in that game as well. And then they played at the Emirates start of last month and it wasn't a great performance, but they were undone on the set pieces and a lot of teams get undone on set pieces by Arsenal. So I think it will be quite tight. I just...

I just still fancy Arsenal's edge I think so I'd go maybe 2-1 Arsenal.

So if it's not going to be one of the big guns that wins the FA Cup this season, who is it going to be? My pick, and we've discussed them a little bit earlier on, and we were asked this before the podcast was prepared. I said Newcastle. So we've done Newcastle. It's not an outside shout. Come on, Newcastle. They're an outside chance considering they haven't won a trophy for 70 years. Does that qualify them as

as an outside chance I think that's fair enough Mark who's your pick for an outsider? Did Bournemouth count?

Bournemouth have got to count surely that was the last their last domestic trophy I'm not I don't I should have maybe looked that up but I don't know but I'm going Bournemouth and I'm going Bournemouth for the reason that I think of all the teams that I've you know seen you know come to Old Trafford or wherever this is and I think they've been the most impressive in terms of punching above their weight I mean they've beaten United they've beaten Arsenal they've beaten City they've beaten Tottenham so given that you would expect that even if they get a tough draw in this competition you would expect that to be able to

maybe pull a result out. I think if you look at all the underlying numbers and the metrics and data and stuff, the third best team in the league on expected goal difference. And the only IRL is the style. I just really like the style of play as well, to be honest, because it's not safe. It's not controlled. It's high intensity. It's aggressive. It's direct. It's about, you know, winning the ball high up the pitch and playing it into really rapid fast forwards. You can get...

step forward and pose a threat. So I just really like them as a team and I think people are sleeping on a little bit underrated and yeah, I think they've got a chance. Okay. Well, interestingly, on two things, Bournemouth have never won a major trophy in this country or anywhere else. 25% of their fans voted that it is very important. 43% voted not so. So yeah, Bournemouth, 7th in the table.

Would getting into Europe be as big an achievement as winning the FA Cup for you, Tim, for Bournemouth? Come on, don't ask. Are you joking? Well, go on. Answer the question. So, hang on. So, winning a trophy for the first time in the club's history or finishing seventh and playing Carabag FC in the Europa Conference League next season...

Come on. Oh, yeah. No, yeah. Sorry, I get why you treat the question with such disdain there. Well, I understand, but we have on a number of occasions within this podcast discussed how...

For some teams, actually, winning a trophy doesn't actually mean progress. So it depends. Who cares about progress? Football was invented to win. It's the genesis of the sport. I know that. I know that. And that's coming from a fan who has never seen their team win a major trophy. So I know that. But I was just asking the question. Because it might be, as Bournemouth fans have said, that...

they don't think it's particularly important that they win a trophy. Maybe they're more into progress. They don't know what they're talking about. That's nonsense. Sorry. Okay, fine. I'm devil's advocating and I've sort of run out of steam on it, of course, but winning the FA Cup would be far more important. Unfortunately for them, having this opportunity, both in the league to finish in Europe, potentially, maybe going well in the FA Cup, it's...

It's going to be hindered. They've lost Enes Unal and Evan Nielsen as well to injuries. We don't know how long they're going to be, but it looks as if they might be relatively long term. And that is certainly going to clip their wings, isn't it, Mark? Yeah, I think that was the one reason why I thought maybe it's a bit of an even greater outside shout than I actually expected. Because, you know, particularly Enes Unal, I think, you know, in the little cameos that he's had, he's looked really bright and promising and was actually great.

potentially going to be someone I was going to move into my FPL team this week before the injury so he had the seal of approval there as well look I think yeah that definitely makes a chance I just look if you're a Bournemouth fan I know we're talking about getting into Europe in seventh place and you know maybe because of their recent experience they're still you know it's still got the potential to be a bit of a yo-yo club but there's absolutely no chance of relegation this season and

playing brilliantly cemented the position I would just go all out for the FA Cup and get that first major trophy like Tim says I think it's all about the glory it's all about the success and that yeah I don't see why they can't you know they're beating big teams why not They're at home against West Brom on Saturday Tim right who are you going for then outsider boy So I've gone for a team that's not fifth in the betting to win it like Newcastle I've gone for I think I think Brentford are a pretty good

I guess you're looking for a team that can beat anyone on their day. I think if Brentford were to get a few home draws, I mean, they've got the second best home record in the league. They've scored 27 goals in 10 home games this season.

Mbwemo and Wisser and Damsgaard, if they're fit and firing, then yeah, they can beat Enor on their day. So if the draw was to open up a bit and they had a few home draws, I could see Brentford going on a run. Thomas Frank, as is the case with other clubs like Bournemouth and whatever we've seen in the past, they have this infuriating tendency to rest 11 players for cup games and then get knocked out by a lower league opposition. So Brentford have got Plymouth at home, I think, this weekend. And, you know, post Rooney,

caretaker manager bounce or if Plymouth have hired someone by now, a new manager bounce. You can see if Brentford rest 11 players then yeah, they get knocked out and it happens time and again. It infuriates me to be honest. But like I said, if Frankfurt's not a strong team and they get a few home draws then they can have a bit of a run. Yeah, they are a good bet, Brentford, and

That would be a popular choice as well. Similar sort of story to Bournemouth as well, rising up the divisions and now being in the Premier League and looking pretty solid at that. Let's talk about Chelsea briefly. 21% of Chelsea fans voted that winning the FA Cup is not important. Let's hear from The Athletic's Chelsea writer, Simon Johnson, on whether he agrees. It didn't surprise me that the vast majority see the FA Cup still as important.

Why is this? Well, Chelsea have not won a trophy under the new ownership. Three years since Chelsea last won the Club World Cup, they set the landmark that no club wants of becoming the first team to lose six consecutive finals at Wembley, not just the FA Cup, the EFL Cup as well, in a row. And I just think they need some silverware to, I think certainly from the fan base point of view, to sort of

It's further reassurance that Chelsea are on the right track to going back to what they were. Of course, very spoilt in the Bramwich year and 19 made trophies in as many years. Let's just hope that Chelsea do go on this run because it wasn't that long ago that Wembley was considered as a second home.

Last question to both of you. What does the FA Cup mean to you? Do you think it's been devalued? Do you think it's been shattered a little bit by the scheduling? Or do you still get a little bit of a frisson of excitement in your waters, Tim? In my waters? I love it. Some of my favourite memories of following Wolves have come in the FA Cup. Probably my favourite memories, actually. 2018-19 FA Cup semi-final? The quarter-final against Man United was...

Yeah, it doesn't matter what happened after that at all. Completely irrelevant, actually. But what happened on that night, on that Saturday night at Molineux, was, yeah, it was incredible. It'll stay with me for the rest of my life. And when they beat Sheffield Wednesday in February 1995 on penalties with the most insane penalty shootout of coming from 3-0 down to win 4-3. Again, yeah, one of my favourite ever memories. So, yeah, it's a shame that kids growing up now won't have that, really. No replays.

games on Thursday night teams resting 11 players the final is the penultimate weekend of season I mean you know even for people who really love it it's hard to keep that love going when when everyone keeps messing around with the competition so it's still probably the best domestic cup competition in the world as they say but um it's not what it used to be. Mark? My team is I seem to mention this on every single podcast and I try to stop myself but my team is surely in the

National League North. And you might remember we had an FA Cup run back in 2021, which was the year, it was the pandemic, right? And it was all behind closed doors. And first round we beat Wigan, second round we beat Peterborough, third round we beat Wayne Rooney's Derby County after they had a COVID outbreak. So we basically...

beat on a load of 15 16 year olds which was great it was like when Homer Simpson won the designer nuclear power bank competition for children that was fantastic and then we got wolves Tim's wolves in the fourth round and I got to go to that one to cover it as a journalist but missing that experience without being able to go with my mates and

and, you know, just see all the people that I grew up with and go on that run around the country and enjoy in those great, like kind of giant killing results.

That is still like, you know, I still got some real FOMO or whatever about that. I still feel like I really missed out on what would have been just like the most special and, you know, a really enjoyable time and memory of going and watching my team. And I think that is still what the FA Cup is brilliant for. And it gets denigrated a lot. It doesn't quite have the...

narrative pull I think of the Premier League anymore and so when an FA Cup weekend comes around it almost feels like it feels a bit like an international break to me it feels like we just step away from the storylines that we follow every week in the Premier League and it perhaps doesn't quite have the same lure and pull in that way but I think for those runs and those moments and those memories that you can make along the way particularly when you're following teams further down the English football pyramid I think it's still incredibly special and still something to be treasured

Mark, Tim, heartwarming way to end the podcast. It is indeed all about moments and that is what we hope this weekend in the FA Cup delivers for you and your team. Time has beaten us. Enjoy your weekend. We'll be back on Monday. Take care.

You've been listening to The Athletic FC Podcast. The producers were Guy Clark, Mike Stavrou and Jay Beal. The executive producer was Aidy Moorhead. To listen to other great athletic podcasts for free, search for The Athletic on Apple, Spotify and all the usual places. The Athletic FC Podcast is an Athletic Media Company production.

Hey, sports podcast fans. Did you know Discover is accepted in 99% of places that take credit cards nationwide? That's right, 99%. And every time you make a purchase with your card, you automatically earn cash back. That could mean earnings rewards when you buy those last minute tickets, those overpriced concessions, and that takeout you ate at home after you bailed on meeting your buddies at the bar.

Well, wherever you spend game day, remember, it pays to Discover. Based on the February 2024 Nielsen Report, learn more at discover.com slash credit card.