How to fix Man City
52:35 Share

This episode is supported by Merrill. With a dedicated Merrill advisor, you get a personalized plan for your financial goals. And when plans change, Merrill's with you every step of the way. Go to ml.com slash bullish to learn more. Merrill, a Bank of America company. What would you like the power to do? Investing involves risk. Merrill Lynch Pierce Fenner & Smith Incorporated Registered Broker Dealer. Registered Investment Advisor. Member SIPC.

This episode is brought to you by Bleacher Report. How do you follow sports? From college football to the NBA, Bleacher Report brings you the latest news, live scores, and epic highlights from your favorite leagues, teams, and athletes all in one app. Dive into exclusive shows hosted by your favorite athletes and original Bleacher Report series with breaking news, rumors, and predictions all season long. Download Bleacher Report to personalize your coverage.

This episode is brought to you by LifeLock. The holidays mean more travel, more shopping, more time online, and more personal info in places that could expose you to identity theft. That's why LifeLock monitors millions of data points every second. If your identity is stolen, their U.S.-based restoration specialist will fix it, guaranteed, or your money back. Get more holiday fun and less holiday worry with LifeLock. Save up to 40% your first year. Visit LifeLock.com slash podcast. Terms apply.

The Athletic FC Podcast Network. Welcome to the Athletic FC Podcast with me, Ayo Akinmulere. It's now eight losses in 11 games for Manchester City after the weekend's derby defeat to Manchester United. Martinez. Hamad through the middle, he's got a touch on it. So what will it take to fix their current situation?

With us today, we have The Athletic's Manchester City correspondent, Sam Lee, plus our senior writer, Rory Smith, who makes his athletic debut on the podcast today. Rory, welcome. Good to have you with us. Thank you for having me. Yeah, Sam, let's start with you on this one. I mean, I think I've probably seen more of you over the last few weeks than I have all of last season. But look...

This is an interesting one, especially Bernardo Silva's comment saying City played like under-15s as they gave up, obviously, the late lead, ended up losing 2-1 against Manchester United on Sunday. What are your thoughts on what he said there? Well, it kind of goes hand-in-hand, I think, with Thierry Henry when he analysed

the goal on Monday Night Football which is on Sky Sports in the UK and he was like showing Grealish and he was like why has he gone backwards and then he was like why has his pass gone backwards why has his pass gone backwards it's like but you must know they've got no confidence whatsoever like the whole Guardiola blueprint the whole idea of keeping the ball as far away from your goal as possible so you're safe it's

It's based on being brave and playing forward and, yeah, just that courage to play. They obviously haven't got it. And I think the closer they got to, we might actually do it, we might actually do it. They just didn't really, it's, you know, when Guardiola first came, they beat Monaco 5-3 in the first leg of a Champions League game, went to Monaco and they had that old mentality of, we're two goals up, we're just going to sit back. Now that is completely the opposite to what Guardiola wants, isn't it? Because then you're just inviting trouble.

And even when City managed to score that night, I think they won 0-0 down, I think they managed to equalise, they sat back again. And he was just like, what is going on? They just keep sitting back. And I think it was almost that same mindset on Sunday. They had something to hold on to, but because they're so fragile, because of all the recent results and setbacks, they didn't have this proactive way of thinking.

of playing they went back into the we've got something to hold on to like let's be uber safe but ironically the more you play like that the more you play back towards your own goal and we saw what happened afterwards so I think that must have been what Bernardo was talking about yeah for sure Rory look the headline really is you know one winning 11 for Guardiola's side but in terms of the league table though I mean they're still still

in the race or semi in the race you know what is it nine points behind league leaders Liverpool seven behind Chelsea I think three points behind Arsenal in fifth I mean

Yes, on all fronts, it looks pretty awful for Guardiola's side, but if they win three games straight and Liverpool drop points, it's not too unfathomable to see them float up the league table, surely? Yeah, Liverpool are having the common decency to wait for them, which is really kind. The problem City have got in terms of winning the league is that you need three teams to collapse. And one team collapsing, always possible. Two, maybe? Yeah.

Three, it's unlikely. And certainly the form Chelsea are in, the fact that Arsenal, with Odegaard back, I know they've had a couple of sort of slip-ups recently, but Arsenal look like a team capable of putting a run together. I think that's probably fair to say. It's probably, this is the thing, it's City. So if it was anybody else, you'd say, look, yeah, they are probably now out of the title race. If it was Arsenal who'd had this run, you'd be like, yeah, fine. That's them done for the lead this year, but they can still get the top four. Because it's City, you can't,

I don't really want to say they definitely won't win the league, but as Sam has sort of made clear in his reporting over the last few weeks, if you look at the kind of structural issues, whether that's injury or the size of the squad or whatever it might be, it's very hard to see City putting together the sort of run they need to put together to overhaul...

Yeah, Sam, we keep saying it, you know, caveating it with, because it is City, you can't write them off. But as we're seeing with what seems like a really unsavoury trend at the moment for this team, those defeats just keep happening. But also, you know, we talk about injuries. We also talk about a team that's really lacking in confidence. What do you think?

where do you see them building confidence back up? You know, that Derby game would have been a wonderful opportunity to seal off a game and see an upward curve. I don't hold out much hope for the Villa away game because Villa have had their own struggles, but maybe the fact that because Villa have had a bit of a struggle, if City can do something there, I wouldn't

you know, if City had won the derby at the weekend, it wouldn't have been a good performance. You know, we watched it and up until lately, 7, 8, 8 minutes, we thought, well, they're going to win this match but not be brilliant. So maybe they could do something like that against Villa and then, you know, they've got Everton after Christmas and Leicester away and there's, you can see potential there but I'm sure it will turn around and I'm sure, I think they'll probably get

top four and be all right come the end of the season but I don't know exactly when that turnaround is going to come because there's just no respite like when they beat Forest which was two weeks ago and they look pretty good it was okay so what's going to go from here and then in the second half Akanji and Ake got injured you think well never actually mind the result and that good stuff because there's now no wiggle room in the back line and then even in the midfield it's like okay well who plays against Crystal Palace and who plays against Juventus then who plays in the derby

And the answer was just like, they'd all just keep playing. Despite the fact that, you know, Gabriel, Luis, and he got banned anyway. Gundogan, Bernardo, De Bruyne, they'd all been playing great and they're just playing, playing, playing. So it's just this cycle and they're still in that, you know, unless a kanji comes back, that would help. They're still going to have the same kind of physical exhaustion. Mentally, God knows where they're at. So I'm sure it will turn around and be relatively okay. But

I honestly don't know when. Like I say, the fixtures over the next couple of weeks are okay, but then in January it gets quite horrible again, so they will need to find something by then. What's been really interesting, I think, is that there have been moments where you thought, okay, that is the thing they need. And Sam's right, the emotional and the psychological and the physical fatigue isn't going to go away, but they beat Forrest. And you think, okay, that is, I think, one of the...

There was a podcast or an article somewhere that said, you know, our City now back. And you think, yeah, often what happens is a team, a really good team, sort of generation defining team in City's case, have a bad run, they get a win and everything just kind of clicks back into gear. And even in the derby, they score a goal that Guardiola himself clearly thought were quite fluky. And you think maybe that's what you need in that moment. You need the one, like the proverbial goal that goes in off someone's backside is kind of the way you break a bad run of form.

And then that doesn't work either. So Sam's right. They're not going to sort of not win any more games between now and May. They will probably beat Everton. They'll probably beat Leicester. They might beat Villa. They will put runs together where they win more games than they lose. And I think they'll get top four quite easily. But something has gone in City. And I think it might even be the confidence that Sam was talking about at the start that

I don't know how you get that back. There's two kind of things involved. It's not just how City feel about themselves. It's how the opponents feel about Manchester City. That kind of aura is really difficult to recover. It doesn't come back in a few weeks. And I think it probably doesn't come back in a few months. If City...

you know, have a good January, February, March. In April, there'll still be teams going to the ETA thinking these are vulnerable and that's not happened for a long, long time. I think if City were to start getting back and they win three games in a row, everyone's going to be like, okay, we better hold off. But now I think they go, we can really get at these. But I think if City were to say, string a few results together over the next few weeks, I think teams would go, okay, hold on a minute. Or even like you said, if it's February, March, April, by that point, I think teams will be like, oh yeah, we had our chance, but it's not now. Yeah, you might be right that if they...

Maybe it depends on the performances. If they stuff Everton and stuff Leicester... And then lose to West Ham, then there's obviously still instability there. Yeah, for sure. But if they start thrashing everyone again, then it's over. Then that kind of changes pretty quickly. If you're going to the Etihad and they've won four games in a row 5-0, then you're probably thinking, all right, these are probably quite good again. Whereas even if they're just winning games 2-1 and they're still not looking convincing, I think most coaches... And this is the other thing that's marked this City decline is...

is that there's a lot of good teams in the Premier League and that's always been the case. But this season, you go down to Man United in, what, 13th? And Fulham are really good. Brentford are really good. And they will be facing teams for the most part. I mean, they've got a couple around Christmas who maybe don't fall into this category, but they'll be playing teams for the most part who will have ways of hurting them. And they'll be able to hurt them not just because City are not what they were, but because the teams that they're facing are...

are strong and worthy of respect. Now, Rory, you've written about knowing when to say goodbye to ageing stars recently on The Athletic. You look at players in the City squad, De Bruyne at 33, Gundogan 34, Walker 34. Do you think they've missed the trick here in not at least getting in players or newer players who are City ready to play? Because this is a relatively ageing squad.

Yeah, I think they've fallen to an extent into the trap that a lot of really successful teams fall into, which is not necessarily wanting to see things they don't want to see. They will have known, obviously, it's not a surprise to Manchester City that Kevin De Bruyne is 33. They're not, oh my God, have you seen how old Kevin De Bruyne is now? And same with Walker. Dunduan is a slightly different case. They brought him back as cover and then because of the injuries, he's probably had to play more than anybody thought he would.

And there's no question that having Ilkay around is a good thing for kind of morale and the dressing room. And he's a leader, he's a senior figure. There are non-footballing benefits to the presence of Ilkay Gündoğan. I think they've found it difficult to know when to make the big calls. And they're not the first, they won't be the last successful team to do this. They have not been willing to maybe look reality in the face early. I think the really successful players

transitions are managed by spotting things early and maybe you lose six months where it looks like a mistake but six months after that you realise that you made the right call because the replacement's bedded in. But the other thing that I think City, there are question marks over City's recruitment. The players they have signed I think have not

have not worked with the regularity, the consistency that they did two, three, four years ago. And I mean, the one who is most newsworthy at the moment, I suppose, is Mateus Nunes. It's not just that Nunes hasn't really shone at Manchester City. It's the fact that they could have signed someone who would have done. It was a weird deal at the time and it doesn't look anything less than a weird deal now. Savinho, I think maybe makes sense, but perhaps he's a little bit less ready than they expected.

And the other thing that's really struck me is Guardiola's always liked to work with a small squad. He seems to have distilled that down into his core essence this year. Letting Julian Alvarez leave, he obviously wanted to go and play regularly, but he was the player who played the most minutes for Manchester City last season. You let him leave and don't replace him, even if you're looking at Ostra Bob and thinking he can step in. That's a big ask for a young, relatively inexperienced player.

I wonder whether the first step in kind of City getting back to where they were will perhaps be to extend the number of players that Pep Guardiola wants to work with on a regular basis to

I mean, I don't know what Sam would estimate it as. I'd have said he seems to like about 20, maybe not even that many senior outfield players. 17, 18. He said the other day on Friday, he said, you know, this period's made me realise maybe we need to work with a 25, 30-man squad. And all the City fans were like, oh my God, finally. But I don't know why there's such like an oh my God, finally reaction to it. It's like, yeah, but that approach has been one of the fundamentals of winning all these trophies and playing all this great football.

So, it's probably one of the reasons now combined with all the other bad luck with injuries and stuff and letting the squad maybe get to a point where it's not fresh enough. But the small squad thing in and of itself, clearly not a problem over the course of his time at City.

But yeah, he has acknowledged that he's thinking about that. But then when he, he mentioned that in the open bit of the press conference on Friday, but then in the embargoed section, which where he generally gives longer answers. And Friday was the day when City brought out their annual report and record revenues and stuff like that. And he was like, he goes, so maybe it's time to have 25, 30 players like Chelsea have. But he was like, but if we do that, then there's no revenues. And it's kind of like, is he, I don't, it doesn't strike me as something he's actually going to do or that City will actually do.

maybe it's necessary, but they're not going to get up to 25 players from the 17, 18 or so that they've got now. Well, not least if you do that, you're talking major surgery. Because I think the likelihood is that you see, and you will know this a lot better than I do, you'd expect three or four to go in the summer, the older ones particularly. Maybe someone like Bernardo even, who's been there a long time,

there might be a sense that, I mean, he's been there a long time and tried to leave quite a lot, but there's maybe a point where you look at Bernardo and say, okay, look, you've been brilliant. You would still be a brilliant player for us, but we are going to go in this new direction. If you're then adding a further six or seven players onto that, you're suddenly looking at a 10-player transfer window and City won't do that. They should start triggering all the buyback clauses in their amazing young players that have been signed. I think there is a world in which Guardiola might be

might be persuadable to get up to 21, 22. I don't think you have to go 24, 25. But I do think it's an interesting subject whether Chelsea have, and I would

I would guess it's accidental, but it might not be. Whether Chelsea have worked out that with this expanded calendar, you need to change the number of players you have in your squad. You effectively need to be running two teams, which is at odds with what a lot of elite managers want. A lot of managers don't want to have those numbers of players because it's hard to keep them all happy. It's hard to keep them all fresh. It's hard to kind of get your message into that many players, which is why Guardiola wants that smaller squad. But maybe the Chelsea madness has some method to it.

I'm the boss, I'm the manager and I'm not good enough. It's as simple as that. I have to find a way to talk to them, to train them, the way you have to play, the way you have to press, the way you have to build up.

And I'm not good enough. I'm not doing well. That is the truth. What do you reckon, Sam? Is there a bit of protection of the players and the quality at which they're playing at this moment there? I guess. When he said that, and I heard it, because I couldn't go to the game the weekend because I was ill. But when I saw it after the game, I was like, I presume this is just the old pressure on me scenario. But also, you know, I'm sure he's genuinely thinking that or was thinking that at the weekend because...

For me, and I think for him, their problems will be solved to a large extent when the players start coming back from injury. I don't think, well, they won't be. Like the all-conquering City, once they start getting, you know, Akanji and Ake back and they can make a few rotations in the defence and cover pitches back in midfield and this kind of thing, they're still not going to be like the amazing City.

But it will help. And then obviously they're going to go into the transfer market as well. And if they get some players in there, then that will help. So I think those are kind of the solutions. The solutions is to get the squad back as it is, as we've already mentioned, it's not perfect, but get it back at least so we can rotate players. Because like I said, after that Forest game, you look at the next three matches and there's just no wiggle room to do anything, really. And we know another big

fundamental of his career has been like resting the players like it was alien to us in the UK for a while I think we're getting it now but he would actively say like coaches like him and Luis Enrique would say like I don't want to play the same 11 two games in a row whereas you know when Rafa Benitez started doing that it was the Tinker Man or Claudio Ranieri he was like what's he doing changing his team all the time but these guys they don't want to do that they want to keep players fresh and he's not been able to so that so I think for me and for him at the moment the problems they've been having are

and the problems they will continue having until those factors change, until players start coming back from injury and until they can maybe start to make the squad a bit fresher. In the meantime, he's got to find a way with these guys who are playing too much, playing badly, to get results regardless. And I think that's where he means he's not been good enough. Like effectively though, this is like a sticking plaster. It would be...

not a way to get back to their brilliant best, but just, you know, to survive. At half-time against Juventus the other night, it wasn't a great first half. It was 0-0. They'd had one chance. Haaland missed it. But they're surviving. That's all they need to do. Against United, if they'd won 1-0 with that fairly terrible performance, really, it's fine. Just survive. I think that's what he means. He needs to find ways just to get them over the line. And you look at the United game. They didn't press as high, which makes sense, partly because they're knackered, partly because...

the more they go and try and win the ball back, the easier it is to get around them. Because even when they weren't so tired and mentally exhausted as they are now, the problem with Gundogan and Bernardo at the moment, they haven't got the legs. Kovacic, when he was fit, he's a good player, but he still doesn't have the legs. That's why they're getting Breeze Pass in midfield. And then when all the defenders are injured, all the really solid, dependable guys, like when Diaz was out and Akanji and Ake now...

Walker, obviously, previously so good to bail you out on a transition. Now he can't do it. If you're getting loads of capital attacks against you and the defenders aren't there either, no wonder they're so weak. So, yeah, Guardiola's trying to find these ways to find sticking plasters. But I've said this before, maybe on an athletic podcast, I've kind of lost track. But all the Guardiola solutions are problems.

he's been stressing, you've got to press high. But they're going to press high, they're getting played around. And then when they've got the ball, the answer is always loads of passes, loads of passes, and extra men in the middle. But the guys who are supposed to be the most sure on the ball, like Gundogan and Bernardo,

If they're playing badly, they're giving the ball away. Then they can't get it back because they're not physical enough. Then the defense isn't there. But also, if you've moved guys up into the middle, like the fullbacks, the Spurs game, you know, Guardiola was high for the fourth goal or like Walker's high and then they're out of position and then they can't get back. But they're doing all the right things. They're doing all the things that Guardiola thinks, this is how I play. This is what all of my best teams have done. This is what we need to do. We need to keep the ball. We need to get men high. We need to press as quickly as possible. None of it's working.

because they're all just too jaded, basically. So yeah, he needs to find the solutions. I think that's what he needs. You're listening to the Athletic FC podcast with Ayo Akamulere. Hey, it's Emma Chamberlain. I designed these new glasses for Warby Parker and I basically can't take them off. Like, I'm showering in them and sleeping in them. They're just that good. Go see them all at warbyparker.com. And you know what? Have a good day too. Okay? All right? Bye.

Remember to ask for Botox Cosmetic by name. To see for yourself and learn more, visit BotoxCosmetic.com. That's BotoxCosmetic.com.

Thank you.

Hey, it's Austin James. Yes, I'm living with diabetes, but it doesn't have to define me. Thanks to the Freestyle Libre 3 Plus sensor, I get real-time glucose readings throughout the day. The Freestyle Libre 3 Plus sensor is small and easy to wear, giving me the freedom to focus on my life as a parent and a musician. Now this is progress. You can get a free sensor at FreestyleLibre.us. Offer available for people who qualify. Visit MyFreestyle.us to see all terms and conditions. Certain exclusions apply. Data on file, avid diabetes care, or prescription only. Safety info found at FreestyleLibre.us.

And City are badly stretched here, Lewis got in the way, and a great ball over and out, McKennie for Juventus, it's been all City since the opener, but with numbers committed forwards, they were wide open there, and Juventus have made the most of it.

Ilkay, I imagine a hugely frustrating and disappointing night for you. What's your reaction? It's very disappointing actually. I feel like we had chances to actually score a few goals

But at the moment, it just feels like every attack we concede is just so dangerous. I don't know. I have a feeling sometimes we're a bit careless in the duels. Instead of playing simple, we overcomplicate things and we miss the right timing to pass the ball, to release the ball. Just lose balls and transition every time and give them counterattacks.

have to chase every time like, I don't know, 50, 60 meters back. And that's not what we built for, you know?

I'm fascinated by that last sentence, that's not what we're built for. Often, you know, I guess the criticism of some of Guardiola's teams is that it can be semi-mechanical. So to be built for something and not being functioning at this moment in time is quite interesting. Do you agree with that statement? Yeah, I've been really struck actually by how many City players have come out and publicly said, this isn't working, we look really vulnerable, we're incredibly fragile, I don't know how to solve it. It's quite unusual for players at any team to talk like that, I think.

And it's actually quite a good illustration of how deep-rooted the issues at City are. Sam's summed it up better than I can, but City are built, and I think that is the right word, to play in a certain way, to dominate the game and to compress space.

They are not designed to have one of those kind of hair and scare and frenetic styles to, I don't know, Klopp's Liverpool, where it's kind of everybody charged this way, then everybody charged that way, then everyone charged that way. And they're both completely valid styles and they can both be incredibly successful. But City's playing squad doesn't really lend itself to that, partly through age now, I think, and partly through the sheer number of games that they've played in the last three, four years, which is a factor as well.

But also because that's not what Guardiola wants his games to look like. He doesn't want his team to do that. He wants them to have the ball and he wants them to deny the opposition any sort of space. What's happened is that basically because of the injuries, because of the vulnerabilities that have been introduced, City are now being forced to play games that they don't want to play. And they're not as good at doing it as they are at playing the way that they do want to play. And that makes sense. How you solve that problem

Sam's right to say that once the injured players start coming back, that will help. I guess the problem that Pep has is that as he's waiting for Akanji and Ake to come back, he's asking an awful lot of, say, Ruben Diaz. So what's to say that Akanji comes back and then two weeks later Ruben Diaz does a hamstring?

And that is the problem with fatigue and it's the problem with exhaustion. So whether there is a point, maybe, I mean, yeah, realistically, there probably will be like March, say, everyone will be back for City and it wouldn't be a shock if City won seven games on the spin, March to May or something. And to be honest, it wouldn't be a massive shock if they won the Champions League because that would be roughly the right time for everyone to be coming back. But in terms of the tactical...

the way it's gone wrong tactically, I think that the situation around City has forced them, has basically allowed opponents to stop City doing what City want to do and to start doing what they want to do. And it's probably the first time in seven years that that's happened.

Yeah. Sam, as we're talking about potentially extending this squad, I'm wondering whether or not City do business in January. You know, we talk about having to rotate this squad that's just literally coming back off injury and you're throwing them back on the field. And, you know, you mentioned recently that the club announced a club record revenues of £715 million in their latest annual accounts, alongside profits of £73.8 million this year.

Is it as easy as saying grab a few players in January and all our problems are solved? I mean, it's much more complex than that, surely. Yeah, especially because we always say that City players need a season to bed in. So bringing them in in January, it won't necessarily help. But yeah, in terms of that, so the thing is, so Rodri's going to be out for the season, so we know that.

So even if everyone else comes back in, they'll still have a bit of fragility in the middle in the sense that without Rodri, they don't really have the mobility or the legs. We saw that in October when they got that last minute winner at Wolves. They weren't massively convincing. They beat Fulham, but they gave up three huge chances on the break, all to Adama Traore. And you just think, oh, they look a bit unstable. And then obviously you take the extra injuries and it unravels to this extent.

So even with everybody back, there will still be that fragility there. So if they were to start making steps towards fixing that in the transfer market, and like Rory mentioned, with some of the players who might move on in the summer, if you can kickstart that process now, if you can add a bit of fresh blood, because look, at this point, the defeats themselves are standout, but the 3-0 draw against Feyenoord when you're 3-0 up with 15 minutes to go, that would have been the one where it was like, what is going on? And then obviously United the other day. United weren't great in the game either.

It was just a poor game. And like I said earlier, I was kind of processing a very kind of below average City win, but then they couldn't even hold onto that. So the emotional damage of that, if you can fix that by bringing in some fresh faces as well, then yeah, I think it's not the only solution to buy players in January, but it's definitely a good one. And like, if it doesn't happen in January, then it's going to have to happen in the summer because as well as there's a country mentioned with those figures,

Last year, they made 139 million in profit from selling players in terms of their net spend was that. And those accounts were submitted before they sold Alvarez and Jal Cancelo for about 100 million pounds between them. And over the last five years, they've brought in 405 million from player sales. So in terms of PSR and whether they can spend, they can. And

Are they ready to, like from what I've heard, yes, they are. Now they've just got to go out and find the players and make sure they settle in straight away. Easy. Bringing players in January, getting them to hit the ground running. I mean, there aren't many players that really do that, especially for a team at this level. That's a solution, but I mean, it's much deeper than that, surely. I think it is. There's no question that in the summer you'll see the sort of churn at City that we've not really been used to over the last...

what Sam five years something like that there's been there's been a fairly the squad's been pretty constant they've added a couple in the summer but nothing nothing major a lot of the deals the ones that have worked Kovacic was a relatively low profile transfer kind of everyone sort of one day Mateo Kovacic played for Chelsea then played for Man City and everyone sort of went yeah alright fair enough Mateo Kovacic now plays for Man City I think that there will be a lot of activity in the summer I'd be staggered if there's not in terms of

Yeah, Walker, De Bruyne. You maybe keep Dunduan around as what he was meant to be, which was a kind of a reserve and an influence in the dressing room. There might be others that they decide to move on. Yeah, Edison possibly. There's been longstanding interest in Saudi and Edison.

It may well be that even someone like Diaz might, you know, someone like that. I mean, Diaz isn't old, but if you're reshaping the squad. For me, Diaz would be the one that keeps stones maybe because of the injuries. Yeah, possibly. But yeah, you may well see three or four older ones and then one or two slightly surprising bidder names go and that means you're going to end up signing five, six, seven players. But I think if you can get ahead of that in January and if there are players that you want...

who you know you're interested in and you think, okay, let's get them in, even if they don't hit the ground running in terms of giving their absolute best, fitting into the team perfectly, then there are benefits to doing it. Liverpool actually have a relatively good run of signings in January. Luis Diaz was a January signing and the first six months, his performances were a little bit up and down, but he gave the team a real kind of injection of energy and

I think there is a value to that. But also in City's case, it's just that renewed sense of competition, that idea of the reinforcements arriving, giving players a break. That sense of new things are happening, I think is really valuable. So yeah, I mean, I'd be surprised if City signed fewer than two players in January, to be perfectly honest. It would strike me that a midfielder, a midfielder is a safe bet because ultimately Rodri's not coming back before next season. So you need an extra body in there and it makes sense to sign a midfielder

I don't know whether Sam would go for a forward or a defender. I guess it depends a little bit on Oskar Bob. City definitely kind of regard him as, they saw him as Alvarez's replacement and losing him early on, in fact, before the season started, I think made very little impact outside Man City, but within Man City was seen as quite significant. So whether you wait for him, I don't know, and go and sign an extra body in defence. If there are players that City are interested in, and they will have a list of players that they like,

And you see a couple that you think, okay, look, we can, even for a little bit of a premium, we can go and get him now. Then I think now's probably the time to do it. The one complication with City, the big cloud hanging over everything, I do wonder to what extent players are asking the question, what happens if you're found guilty of the charges? I think that must, you'd be a bad agent if you weren't asked in that question. And I wonder to what extent that complicates things.

the transfer market for them. My guess is that all it means is you have to pay everybody a bit more money. That's normally the thing that solves problems in the transfer market. But I do wonder if that is something that is a factor, like a complicating factor for City. Do you think that's true, Sam? That could be a complicating factor for players coming into the club? I can't remember if we were just writing an article, if we wrote an article about it a couple of months ago or we were just doing some groundwork for the whole charges-related shebang that's going to kick off at some point. But

I seem to recall, you know, certainly from what I've heard, but what colleagues posted as well, this has not really come up. Like agents, you know, because my assumption was agents would be like, okay, what's going on? Apparently, it doesn't really come up. Obviously, City don't bring it up and agents don't really ask because they just think, well, let's just get this deal sorted. Maybe there have been agents or players who haven't come to City because of that, but that hasn't come to our attention anyway.

Looking for a pickup truck to get just about anything done? Look no further. The Chevy Silverado EV isn't just the most powerful Silverado ever, with next-level towing capability and technology. It also offers game-changing versatility with the available Multiflex mid-gate and tailgate, which means Silverado EV helps you carry large, bulky, and oddly-shaped items up to nearly 11 feet in length. Chevrolet. Together, let's drive. Visit Chevrolet.com to learn more.

This episode is brought to you by AWS. Amazon Q Business is the new generative AI assistant from AWS. Many tasks can make business slow, like wading through mud. Help! Luckily, there's a faster, easier, less messy choice. Amazon Q can securely understand your business data to help you streamline tasks, like summarizing quarterly results or doing complex analyses in no time. Q got this. Learn what Amazon Q Business can do for you at aws.com slash learn more.

This episode is brought to you by Allstate. Some people just know they could save hundreds on car insurance by checking Allstate first. Like you know to check the date of the big game first,

This is the Athletic FC podcast with Ayo Akamulera.

There was a comment from an athletic reader, actually, gents. I'd love to hear your thoughts on this one, on a recent City piece, actually. And the comment read, the longer this City crisis lasts, the more accolades you've got to give to Sir Alex, considering the way he managed transitioning of his teams multiple times over the period of 26 years.

Is that a fair comparison to make Guardiola's won the Premier League six in the last seven years? But also, I'm just thinking about the spread of quality in the teams right now in the Premier League compared to Sir Alex's last season at Manchester United. I mean, where do you stand with that, Sam? In the best possible way, I think it's irrelevant. I don't know why...

one thing has to be the other because this is a terrible run from City, but obviously we'll have to see where they finish. But Ferguson's United, the thing is we know Ferguson's achievements are amazing and I'm not sure this adds anything extra to that because there was obviously periods where

And it's fine because it was 26 years, but there was three years when United didn't win the league. Like, it wasn't like, Ferguson did amazing things, but you can't look at this run and then try and make them even better than they were. Like, I think Ferguson's always going to get the accolades. And yeah, like he's known, isn't he, famously for like ruthlessly tearing up the squad. But there were periods where it didn't work. There were periods where they didn't win the league.

And there were periods where they had bad spells. Now, yeah, this particular spell has been horrific. But if City get to the end of the season and finish in the top four, you know, if they were to finish 10th, you could say, oh, Alex Ferguson never finished 10th. Fair enough.

as it stands at the moment, like what Guardiola's done has been amazing. This run at the moment is terrible. What Ferguson did was amazing, but he also had some periods which weren't great. And they're not too dissimilar to this. You know, not winning the league for three years. Rory's laughing away there, yeah. I can see him smiling. I don't really know if, is Alex Ferguson short of accolades? Is that a thing? Have we, do people not praise Alex Ferguson? I think what Sam says about not, well, number one, Ferdi never did four in a row.

did he? So, you know, maybe, Ferdinand's United did transition, but they did also have transitional seasons. And I think it's probably fair in hindsight to say that, yeah, they had like a span of three years and then they tended to not take a year off, but they dipped for a little bit and somebody else, whether it was Arsenal, Chelsea or whoever, Blackburn, kind of took their chance and that was kind of the rhythm of it. And that's not a slight to Ferdinand who is the most successful manager in British history. But,

It wasn't the case that Ferdi won every game for 26 years. There were, like Sam says, there were lean moments. There were periods where he didn't win the league. He tended to be quite close to winning the league, but it may well be the case that City are relatively close to winning the league this time around. In the pandemic year, 2019-20, City had a dip. It wasn't as bad as this, but they did have a dip. They seemed to have reached the end of Guardiola City 1.0 and

Liverpool took their chance that year. City didn't win the league. It happens to all teams. It's happened in relatively spectacular fashion to City at the moment. But there are, as we talked about, there are extenuating circumstances. The amount of injuries they are dealing with is not unprecedented, but it's fairly impressive. And so I don't know if it's anything... I mean, I suspect Ferdi had periods like this, maybe not in exactly the same fashion. But...

It happens to all teams. It happens to all managers. Sam, what have you made of how Pep Guardiola has dealt with this situation as a whole? We've all seen the cuts and the scratches he's given himself on the touchline. We have to consider a human element as well, right? This must be impacting him as well. Oh, I don't know. Because like, you know, in a year's time, in six months time, if he's not impacted by it, then no. But it's difficult at the moment, you know, obviously.

But I was writing an article recently about, you know, when he said, well, he keeps saying, doesn't he? If I feel I'm going to be a problem, I'll leave or the club might sack me or whatever. And that is genuine. But all these things that he's saying,

Like, for example, when he talks about his vulnerabilities and stuff and when he's asked about scratching and whatever. Yeah, he does say that. But at the same time, in the same press conferences, he's like incredibly defiant as well. He's talking about like, he was asked on Friday, like, do you regret signing that new contract? He was like, no way. He goes, I wouldn't be able to sleep if I was leaving now. I need to stay and fix this. Like a certain, and look, don't get me wrong. He's a guy who kind of takes setbacks on the pitch regularly.

very, let's say emotionally. And this is, this has been the case, like forget this period existed. We know that he's kind of dramatic and emotional and rubs his head and scratches his head and kicks his seat, whatever, you know, this is, this is why it's been like when, when his team were winning. So it's, it's no surprise that it maybe goes a bit further now, but there's, I think there's been like a kind of a certain image portrayed of this guy who's like cracking up. It's always, he's always said strange things for a start. He's always been emotional, like I've just said, but,

All these kind of pictures that are being painted do ignore all the defiant messages as well about, I want to stay more than ever. I'm more determined than ever to come into work and find these solutions. You know, he says he's not sleeping brilliantly. He slept better before, but he'd always just want to get into work and look at the other team and work out what the solutions are. And in that sense, he's the same. So...

I mean, yeah, there's some logical conclusions. Like, is he going to be enjoying life as much as he was when they were winning? No. But when they were winning, do you think he was, like, kicking his heels down the street? He was going to be stressed about it. So, I don't know. Like, I don't know. I wouldn't say he's taking it well or badly. I'd say he's taking it as expected. Like, if things are that bad, like, when he says he's not good enough, it's because I think it's like, well...

I'd love to have some solutions, but everything I try isn't working. But because the lads have got no legs and I can't blame them because they're the only ones who I've got. So it is what it is. And then you just answer questions about it all the time. And you get asked questions about it all the time as well. Yeah, I'm kind of running out of things to say now. But at least I can have some time off over Christmas. Yeah, fair point. I guess it's sometimes hard to...

Remember, he's actually a mere mortal like us, Rory. Well, I wouldn't say like us, but he's a mere mortal. You know, I've seen this knocking about where certain fans are talking about, oh, probably time to part ways. He shouldn't have signed the deal. Could City part ways with Pep Guardiola? It's almost impossible, surely. Yeah, I think there probably is a point where you have to say that's the only available option. If they were to still...

be in the midst of this sort of form, if it got to sort of three wins in 25 by March, then maybe you probably have, in that situation, you probably have to consider it. But I don't think we'll get to that. So it remains in the realms of the hypothetical. It would be astonishing to

I mean, yeah, genuinely astonishing for them to sack him. I don't think they would sack him, but I do wonder whether there might be a point if things got really, really, really bad where there was a kind of conversation of, well, look, this is the only available option now because City can't be... Well, I suppose to an extent, as long as they were safe from relegation, City could probably tolerate it and they...

they're probably not far off safe from relegation already. So it might be that they say, look, actually, it doesn't matter. As long as we finish 17th, then it's fine. As I say, I don't think it will come to this. And they'd be prepared to tolerate it. Yeah, if they can't, even if they find inconsistent form, you know, three wins in five or something, as long as they can do something like that, I think that conversation never even needs to happen. If they really can't break the streak...

then maybe you have to have it at some point but I can't see it myself. For me, I think they both only started to talk about that once like this, like they've got the solutions. Like once players start to come back from fitness because right now, you know, the problems now are the same problems as they were in the middle of November. There's nothing you can do with that squad because there's still players out. There's no rotation they can do. They're still knackered. They're more knackered than ever. They're more,

mentally drained and shot than ever. And, you know, the transfer window hasn't opened yet. If they start to get players back and they sign players and they're still losing, then maybe that, you know, that's when Guardiola will be like, oh, I'm not good enough. It's gone completely. But let's be honest, do we imagine that things will be better if they get a couple of players and...

People returned from injuries. That would be the only point to have that conversation, I think. Now, it's like, well, the problems are the same problems as six weeks ago. So that, you know, you hear that thing, oh, any other manager will be under pressure by now. It's like, well, do you want to work out why Guardiola isn't for a start? But also, not just because of his own achievements, but, you know, City...

aren't the kind of knee jerk operation to be like oh well you know we're still losing so what are we going to do the problems now are the same problems as the start of the run once things start to get better in that sense if there's no improvement then there might be that conversation but I don't

I don't see why it would be now because the problems are still there, but worse than ever, really. Can you see any glimmers of hope here, Sam? I'm just thinking for the sake of balance, we've spent the entire podcast ripping apart what's gone wrong with City, but can you offer fans listening to this any glimmer of hope, anything that's potentially where we can see them?

changing the trajectory? Well, I was asked this on Friday and I don't think it's a lost addressing room situation. It's not one of those things where they're not running. Like you can see in the games, now the danger is now after the derby maybe that last flick has gone out, but you can see in games they're there, they're trying, they're doing what they need to do despite all the setbacks, despite all the defeats. You know, that Forest game when they won, they scored after like seven or eight minutes. Before that, I was like, this was a few days after the Liverpool game when they were like played off the pitch.

were pretty terrible. The Forest game comes back and it's like, they're running, they're doing everything they need to do, the energy's there. No matter how many times they've been knocked down, they keep going and doing what they need to do. And you think, it's probably the minimum, but

You can't take it for granted. And now, like I said, maybe after the United game and the way that's gone and how painful that will be, maybe that's going to be even harder to do. But I think the fact that they're willing and they're there and they're willing, it's not working at the moment for all the reasons we just talked about. Basically, just lack of legs, I think, at this point, lack of freshness mentality. But they're there and they're trying. And as long as they're trying.

Once you add in the other ingredients, like the players back from injury, maybe a couple of sign-ins, that's where I think you see the hope. I think they'll finish in the top four. I did say a couple of weeks ago, I think they'll win the Champions League. In the last couple of weeks, I started to feel like... I mean, where are they in the running? They've just got to make the playoffs, don't they? If they end up in a playoff, then that playoff's in February, and surely it's going to be all right by then.

That's what I'm thinking. You know what I mean? If they get in the top four, that's not going to be now. If they get in the top four, that's going to be because they win. You don't have to win loads of games to get in the top four either. The team that finishes fourth isn't the best Premier League team ever, is it? You see top teams fall over the line to get fourth. And yet, if they were to kind of win a playoff in February and then play a proper Champions League knockout game in March, it's not the end of the world. But yeah, it's hard to see. But yeah, just the fact that they're there, they're going through the motions, they're doing what they need to do.

It's pretty much anything you can do at the moment. Yeah, Rory, Champions League, that's interesting. You mentioned it at the top. Do you think City are still in it for the Champions League? Yeah, because as Sam says, though, by that stage, there is a loop element to an injury crisis that City will find it hard to escape from, just as any other team would. But by the business end of the Champions League, they should have the bulk of the players back. They will have lost time to make up for. Ironically, some of those players won't play very much football.

So I think it would be... There's a limited number of teams who can win the Champions League anyway, if we're all completely honest. There's maybe three from England, two from Spain, one from Germany and one from Italy. And maybe PSG. I don't know how seriously we're taking PSG at the moment. Brest have been amazing in the Champions League. They're not going to win it. So yeah, they are one of the eight teams who can win the Champions League is how I put it. But it might...

it might work out for them in terms of getting the players back, building up ahead of steam, having a strong finish to the season. If I was Guardiola at the moment, he doesn't work like this, but I do. I would be thinking probably not going to win the lead. It's relatively unlikely because as we said before, you need three teams to fall, not fall apart necessarily, but three teams to really hit the buffers.

And three teams doing that is unlikely. You know, Liverpool may well fall away, but Chelsea will be there to keep up the pace. And if Chelsea don't, then Arsenal do have a head start on City. But the Champions League is a little bit more of a lottery. I think the danger is, Sam's right, the playoff round in February, they are more likely than not to be in the playoff round rather than qualify automatically. They might still be feeling the effects of the injury problems then,

They might not have got their confidence back. And that massive, mega, extendable Champions League table is a mess. It doesn't look like it's supposed to look. There's lots of teams who are in very much the wrong position as far as Europe's elite football teams are concerned. So it may be that that playoff game is a lot harder than City would like it to be. It might be that they get Dino Moussard rep and it's all fine. But I went to Brugnate Sporting last week.

who will, I think, qualify for the knockout, for the playoffs. Bruges are quite a good team and City got them last in the group stage. I'm sure City will win that if they need to win that, but Bruges will give them problems and teams of that ilk will give City problems if it's this City that turns up. If they get Real Madrid, then it's a different matter entirely. But yeah, if I was Guardiola, I would be thinking...

Obviously, the FA Cup has not started yet for City, so that's always an option. But I'd also be looking at the Champions League and thinking that is probably your more realistic trophy route this season than the Premier League. Okay, fantastic. Let's leave it there, City fans. You heard it there. Champions League or the FA Cup. Thanks, Rory. Thanks, Sam. Thank you so much for listening. We're back tomorrow.

The first ever 12 team college football playoff is set and you can join me, David Ubbin and me, two time national champion, Alabama, Damian Harris and me, Chris Vanini, two time national champion in the college football 25 video game on until Saturday, the athletics college football podcast for all the playoff previews, predictions, coaching carousel and transfer portal news four times a week throughout the CFP.

Dame, how do you think Bama is going to do in the playoffs? Shut up, David. The time may be out of the playoffs, but I'm super excited to see the 12 best teams in the nation play. All the banter, insights and more on Until Saturday. Subscribe on Apple, Spotify or wherever you listen to podcasts.