Where did it all go wrong at Wembley?
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All right, Reds, Tony Evans here with Walk On, your Liverpool podcast from The Athletic. I'm here with James Pearce and Simon Hughes. Well, Wembley weekend. Don't want to talk about it, but we need to talk about it. James, I hear you were getting serenaded in a hotel bedroom at three o'clock in the morning. Yeah, I was.

I was, Tony. It was the final miserable chapter to a thoroughly miserable day, lying awake in bed at three o'clock listening to the Joe Linton song from some very, very happy and very drunk Geordies who, I think they were either in the corridor or the next room, but it sounded like they were lying next to me. Well, do you want to give us three words and...

Maybe for them. You don't want to give me the three words that you use. I don't think I can give you the three words I'd give them, but my three words were, that was abysmal. You know what? Yeah, I will give you three words. Absolutely. I'm not entirely sure we're going to get past the bleeper. Let's see what everyone else thinks.

Brenton James. What was that? Dom O'Brien. Oh, so disappointing. Mark Green. Totally empty tank. Andy Chandler. We walk on. That's nice to see a positive finish to that. To join our community of listeners on Facebook, just search Walk On Podcast and join the group. Well, James, you said that after being knocked out of the Champions League, that Wembley would be Slott's first big test after a setback.

How do we feel about it now? I know, I know. It was... I mean, that was the fear, wasn't it? Because we talked about it ahead of the weekend and I actually felt a bit bad after we'd done that pod last week. I thought, I think I was a bit too negative and I should have been more upbeat ahead of a Wembley final. But it was that nagging feeling of...

Liverpool haven't been in this position before under slot, losing a game that really matters. And especially with the intensity of that game against PSG and how good they were. And I know slot afterwards said that he didn't think fatigue had been a factor. But I mean, for me, it was absolutely glaring. And there was more to it than that. I think it lets them off the hook if you place too much emphasis on it. But it was certainly a big factor. I think

mental fatigue from like the disappointment of going out the Champions League having done so well in the competition up to that stage and obviously the physical side of things which and again I think part of that comes down to slot not rotating enough in recent weeks you know I think nine of the the 10 outfield starters at Wembley obviously started both games against PSG as well a lot of them also started against Southampton which I think now looks like an

an even bigger mistake than I thought it was then in terms of he should have put more faith in fringe players against Southampton. Sorry, unless you've got anything to add. That was walk on. You look cool, Proctor. I'll prove to you by the ad letter. I do have a few things to add, Tony, yes. Do you want me to add them? Go on then. Yes, of course I want you to add them.

Well, it is difficult to know where to start, really, because I think it wasn't just one of Liverpool's worst performances in a quarterfinal. I can't think of too many as bad as that, genuinely. Liverpool have played badly, been beaten in the past, but in every single department, they got run over against Newcastle. And for it to happen in a final when there's a trophy at stake, I'm in a bit of a state of shock, really, because Liverpool...

In the past, I've made finals difficult for themselves. They haven't really won that many too convincingly. Tottenham 2019 was relatively straightforward Champions League final. When they beat Manchester United in the League Cup final, I think 2003. But nevertheless, they tend to deliver some sort of performance and it was painful to watch. It was embarrassing, to be honest. It was embarrassing. Newcastle were so good. Newcastle were so much better in every part of the game.

It's a really concerning day, I would say. When do we think Liverpool last produced a final performance as bad as that? Yeah, well, we had a little discussion about this last night, didn't we? And I mean, I thought that the second half of the Europa League final against Sevilla in 2016 was bad, but...

But there was the... It was only a second half. Yeah, it was only a second half. And it's the context that, to be honest, Liverpool had overachieved getting to that final, I would say, with the group of players. And Sevilla, you know, were the team well-versed and were in that competition. This was against Newcastle, who are a good team. You know, they are the good sides. But they obviously had the weight of history on top of them ahead of that game. They're not a team that wins cup finals, really, or a club.

So that was the first one that jumped out. But I mean, my thoughts led all the way back to 96 against Man United in the FA Cup final. But then even that, that was just a dreadful game all round, wasn't it? Liverpool weren't outplayed by Man United, were they, in 96? It was just like, it was a dismal spectacle settled by David James dropping a corner. Yeah, yeah, exactly. So, you know, maybe that hasn't been won quite as bad. Maybe we go back for it.

But it was just such a disappointing performance. They got exactly what they deserved. You know, if Liverpool had snatched, you know, a draw, you know, at the end after getting such a late goal, it would have been an injustice. One of the biggest injustices ever.

on a football pitch because they could have been 4-5-0 down with the chances that Newcastle had. Let's take finals out of it. When was a general performance last that bad? Yeah, well, maybe Stoke City 6, maybe. Oh, oh. Maybe.

Brendan's yeah oh yeah that's obviously a bad one but there's nothing riding on that game so you can you can almost you can never accept getting beaten by six goals by Stoke but you know for it to happen in such a big game when there's a trophy at stake it's very hard very hard I think

I think it was the worst Liverpool have played, certainly since the Merseyside derby at Goodison. That was about a year ago, wasn't it? They were abject that night. They were bad that night. They were bad that night. Very bad. But yeah, it's right up there with the bad performances that I've seen in games, really. Just where, you know, the passes aren't connecting.

The tact, certainly, I mean, tactically, the second half, he was all over the place. I mean, Slott might say, with good reason, that the team needed such a shake-up that he just had to try something drastic. You know, if he were to say that, I could understand it. The substitutions were bewildering, let's say. He was shapeless. It was like, it turned into like a game of five-a-side where players are just picking up areas of the pitch and hoping that they might be able to unsettle Newcastle, but...

Yeah, I mean, I think the players, the manager, you know, could stretch it all the way back to the start of the season. I do think that right now, the paying for the lack of squad depth, you know, the midfielders, the three midfielders started the season as a real strength. They now look tired, haven't had enough rotation in that area throughout the course of the season. So, yeah,

They just need to try and get over the line as quickly as possible in the league, I think. James, what did the players say afterwards? What were they like? Van Dijk did what he always does, fronted up and took responsibility. Yeah, didn't pull any punches, really. Just said he was hurting the fact that they had underperformed on the big stage. And he said, admitted they got exactly what they deserved. He said, you know, when you suffer two setbacks like we have done in the past week, he said it feels like the world is sinking again.

where he said a few weeks ago it was all sunshine and rainbows. But there was also, you know, a bit of a rallying call from the skipper as well, saying that,

We can't feel sorry for ourselves. We've got to remember. And I think this is important in the grand scheme of things because I've had to keep telling myself this, that Liverpool are unbelievably close to winning the Premier League title, which regardless of what's happened over the last week, makes this a very, very special season. And I've heard a few pundits and stuff say, well, they might only have the Premier League to show for this season. And it's like, only the Premier League? Something that we didn't win for 30 years.

That is nonsensical. So let's keep a sense of perspective. And, you know, Van Dijk was saying, you know, the Premier League is still the biggest prize that we were going for. That is still within our grasp. We've just got to come back after the international break.

And his phrase was, work our asses off to get the job done. But I think it's still possible, isn't it, to appreciate in the grand scheme of things, this could still go down as a very, very special season. It should do with the advantage Liverpool have got over Arsenal. But...

you know, it's also fair to say what on earth was that served up at Wembley on Sunday because it's just not acceptable to perform like that in a major final. Well, I'm going to now ask, sorry, the dreaded question. Any positives? Especially a man as miserable as you. Come on, Sony.

Chiesa? Yeah, well, Chiesa, I thought, did come on and have an impact. I thought Curtis Jones actually played quite well when he came on. I thought he was the only one who performed anywhere near his capabilities. I thought he showed a willingness to try and make things happen and try and get on the ball.

Obviously could have scored what would have been a great goal, but for the keeper making what looked like an extraordinary save when you first saw it, it probably wasn't quite as dramatic when you saw the replay. But I thought he had a good game. But yeah, aside from that, sorry Tony, you can't polish it, heard. You don't wake up dreaming of McDonald's fries.

You wake up dreaming of McDonald's hash browns. McDonald's breakfast comes first. Ba-da-ba-ba-ba.

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Remember, if you want to get in touch with the show, you can email us at walkonattheathletic.com. And that's exactly what Phil Cain's done. He's written in to say, I have to say, that final summed up the team for the last three months. There hasn't been a game since we beat Spurs 4-0 that has made me think this team is good. This was an awful performance on so many levels.

The Sturton line-up didn't inspire hope. Couldn't match Newcastle's energy. Set-piece defending. Nothing up front. Nothing to inspire the crowd. They go, it's all wrong. Thanks, Phil. Thanks, Phil. I mean, I thought this was going to make me feel better. Anyway, he carries on. Newcastle deserved this because they played like a cup final. Liverpool played like a team that has zero energy or desire. Phil is obviously disappointed.

And James, I was going to say, does he have a point? Of course he's got a point. What was most demoralising for me was just how Liverpool allowed it to be the game that Newcastle wanted it to be. And there was no surprises, was it? Yet it looked like Liverpool were surprised. We all know from having faced Newcastle previously this season, and I know they weren't really on it at the game at Anfield a few weeks ago, for a start, Joe Linton,

One of their most physical players wasn't involved that night. But we knew that that midfield unit of theirs would try and bully Liverpool. We knew that they would go man to man and try and press and try and force Liverpool to go long. So that's where you've got to be brave on the ball. You've got to create space.

And you've got to take risks at times to manoeuvre out of tight situations when you're under pressure. Yet it was just so infuriating watching Liverpool pump aimless long balls up to Jota. And I thought Jota was really, really poor. But I would cut him a little bit of slack in terms of how little service he actually got. I just thought it was so naive the way Liverpool approached it.

Obviously, the duels is a big thing in terms of, you know, you know that you're going to come off second best in a lot of duels against people like Joe Linton and against Dan Byrne. You know, I think Newcastle won 57% of the duels. They won 68% of the aerial ones.

But there's another way around that. It just means when you've got the ball, you just have to be cute. Don't put us in the air. Why create? So you know you've got a problem with duels because they've got the greater physicality. So why create more duels by launching it, which is exactly what they wanted. And that, as Simon said, even in the last 10, 15, when you could see Newcastle getting a little bit nervy, obviously even in stoppage time, you pull one back.

Liverpool were just brainless. Like, pumping those long balls forward. I mean, there was just so many moments as well when I was sat there thinking, well, that sums up today. And then it's like, well, that sums up. And then it's, well, that even more sums up today. And I think probably the biggest one was when, I think it was Isak and Joe Linton were both off having had treatment. So Liverpool had the ball. And they're playing with 11 against 9. Not only do they fail to even fashion anything resembling a chance,

but they actually give the ball away and then Joe Linton and Isak come running back on and Newcastle have like a six on four breakaway there was just so much wrong with that performance and

And I think, yeah, as much as it pains me to say it, Eddie Howe did a job on slot. I think that's the thing that really grates with me. You know, from a Liverpool team, you're expecting them, you know, to be street smart. That is the basic demand from me. As far as I'm concerned, you know, as somebody who wants Liverpool to win, you know, certainly that's what people in Liverpool pride themselves being on. And it just feels like they've had the pants pulled down by a team that out-thought them, that out-thought them.

And just basically wanted to win more on the day. That's how it seems, you know?

So it's a really, it's a hard one to take. I mean, everybody will sort of react to it in different ways. You know, like if you've been down to Wembley and had a good day with your mates, you can get over it by, you know, having a few drinks on the way home. The journey might be a long way home. And remind yourself, of course, that Liverpool are going for the title. If you've watched it from, you know, long distance away, it's hard to take because you're watching that by yourself potentially. But the cold reality is it's a League Cup final game.

A competition that the whole season doesn't hinge on. I mean, if they do win the league, it's mega. You know, people will forget this, really. They will forget. You know, it's not going to be viewed as a major, major, major regret. But Liverpool tend not to lose. You know, they tend to perform in cup finals and give it a right go. And to play like that, it's a really...

It was just really concerning for me. It just shows you, I don't think Liverpool are as good as maybe some people think they are. They're certainly not as bad as some people are making them out to be today. You know, they've obviously got something about them, but I do think that the whole basis of the season has been...

On the start that they made, you know, when Schlott came up with a plan of how he wanted the team to play, largely kept the same players. They did fantastically in the league, kept the same team largely for the Champions League, did fantastically in that. But it now feels like, you know, having maintained that consistency and got ahead in the league, they may be paying for it a bit now because...

Other managers are maybe looking at what Liverpool are doing as well. They've got a better sight of them. They know what they're going to try and do. They're coming up with plans to stop Liverpool doing what they want to do. Meanwhile, the players, it's largely the same players.

they're in a great position in the league and I expect them to come back and have a right go against Everton. You know, it's not the same problem that they've had after international breaks in the past when, you know, they come back on the Wednesday or the Thursday in some cases and play on the Saturday. They actually have a break over the weekend as well. So, slot has time to really get into the players and they have time to sort of, they don't just fly back and go straight into another match. They'll

That's what I'm saying. So he does have time on his side with this one. It's not quite the same as other international breaks. And, you know, if they finish the season strongly and get the title, you know, that is much, much bigger than what has happened over the weekend. And that should never be forgotten. But it's still OK to be disappointed by that performance and be a bit concerned by how it all unravels.

James, I've been guilty of it. I've been guilty of it. I've said the way...

Slot sets up, you know, there's less need for Trent than in a club team. And yet there he's missing and suddenly there's no outlet ball. There's no creativity going forward. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I thought, sat there watching that, there was a massive, massive void with Alexander-Arnold missing. It just felt like a flaw in Liverpool's game plan. The fact that it was almost like they seemed to approach it

as if Trent was there with the amount of ball that Kwanzaa saw and the kind of areas that Kwanzaa was going into. But you could tell that Newcastle were quite happy for Kwanzaa to be the kind of the out ball, the one that was free to be able to receive possession. Because, you know, Kwanzaa's a very, very talented young footballer, but he's a centre-half. You know, he's not going to hurt you with,

you know, pinging a Trent-style 50, 60-yard pass out to Diaz or whipping one in behind for Salah to run onto. Like, he just doesn't have that in his locker, does he? His distribution isn't anywhere near at the same level. So, yeah, I think you were crying out for one of the midfield three to create.

But they didn't, did they? There was absolutely nothing from McAllister to Bosley Gravenberg in terms of an attacking force, as Si said, until Curtis Jones came on. And what a difference that showed. Because the other thing I think where hindsight's a wonderful thing, but Curtis as well,

Like I think physically he hasn't played the same number of minutes as some of the others. I think he would have been, I think he'd have been better able to stand up to those duels compared to some of the ones that did start. And also the fact that he is positive and he is, he tries to make things happen and started running at Newcastle in a way that no one had been brave enough to do before he came on. So yeah, it was certainly the absence of Trent hurt Liverpool.

And, you know, you needed someone else to step up creativity-wise in you, but it just didn't happen. So, what was the deal? Like, I know, let's get our smallest player and let's mark, get him to mark their biggest player at set pieces. This is a brilliant idea. Yeah, well, of course, I criticised Pep Guardiola for doing that a couple of weeks ago with City. He did a very similar thing. I mean, I was discussing this earlier.

We'll be mates in the aftermath of that goal at half-time. And the only conclusion you can really draw in terms of the thinking is that Liverpool mark zonally, don't they? So they're anticipating that Dan Byrne is going to charge into an area which is roughly where, you know, Virgil van Dijk or Canarte might be able to deal with it.

But that doesn't happen. What happens is Dan Bairn stands still and heads it from about 10, 12 yards. A tremendous header. You never really see players scoring from that distance out. You know, in football, usually headers are sort of a bit more close range. So that's the thing. I mean, McAllister's not marking Dan Bairn. He's marking the space. You can argue all day long about whether that's the right decision or not.

Whether you should be going zonally or man for man, it's like going back into the Rafa era, you know, when the zonal marking became a thing. But on this occasion, the zonal marking didn't work because Newcastle scored. So I think that's the thinking behind the slot. Spoke a little bit about it after the game and sort of confirmed that as well. But, you know, it makes Liverpool look a bit silly because, you know, you've got the tallest man on the pitch who, you know, can be seen from space.

being marked by this little fella. The little fella wasn't even looking at the ball either. Did you see his back turn when the corner came in? I often think, you know, when you're the smaller player, you can still, it's not always a matter of height, you can still be a smaller player and to

disrupt a bigger player from doing something. A little nudge. Stands on his instep. The thing with being... The thing with zonal marking is it sort of takes accountability away from the players, doesn't it? It's like, well, you mark the space, you know, but unfortunately the space doesn't really move. Do you know what I mean? You know, it's difficult when you've got an eight-foot bloke who is just a ridiculously sized footballer and he's in your area. So it didn't look great. I mean, I...

I can accept what happened on the rationale behind it, but personally, I think when you've got a player that size, you've got to sort of make concessions for it, really. And you can't just say, well, that was our plan and, you know, we hoped it all worked out nicely. Yeah, because as you might expect, I'm going to say space doesn't score. But Dan Byrne can be seen from space. Actually, that's...

It's weird listening to the pub when, you know, Simon adds to the lexicon of football. You know, we've had Robocops, you know, we've had Garda Seval. Now we've got players who can be seen from space. Yeah, of course, and Liverpool seem to pick them up. He's an incredible, I mean, he's an incredible footballer. I think he's actually, he's a really good player, Dan Bairn. A classic case of like somebody who...

you know, maybe is being overlooked because of the ridiculousness of how big he is, you know, but I mean, you can, it sounds ridiculous saying overlooking somebody of that size, but he, you know, is a classic case of somebody who at a certain age, something has clicked and suddenly, you know,

A little bit later on his career, has become a really good footballer, who I think is good on the ball. You know, we can play centre half or left back equally well. I think he's a good player. And he can be seen from space. Hi, this is Javon, your Blinds.com design consultant. Oh, wow. A real person. Yep. I'm here to help with everything from selecting the perfect window treatments to...

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getting them ready for the Everton game. We're going to blame you if there's not a massive improvement. How are you going to do it? How are you going to do it? Well, I think probably after the week Liverpool have had, I think it will do...

a lot of them good to go away and have a change of scenery. Obviously, a lot of them on international duty. Some of them will get some time off thrown in. And as Simon said, I think it's not that usual turnaround, is it, after an international break where maybe you're only getting everyone back together on a Wednesday, potentially even a Thursday, sometimes with the South Americans, and then away you go that weekend. The fact that it's not to the following midweek. So, yeah, I think for slot...

he's got to try and press the reset button, hasn't he? Because, you know, and it is a different scenario, but Monday actually marked exactly a year since Liverpool went out of the FA Cup to Manchester United at Old Trafford. And of course, you know, the wheels came off then, didn't they? During the run-in. Yeah, you're a bundle of laughs, isn't he? I said, it's not, no, it is a different scenario. I think because, you know, for a start, you had that dynamic then where you had players coming back from,

from injuries and like really lacking rhythm weren't they and it was it was a real struggle in in those latter stages of the season I don't see history repeating itself I know you know inevitably with all the negativity swirling around today there's that feeling of you know what you know is it just gonna fall to pieces or gonna limp over the line or whatever but but no I think we've

We've got one game a week, haven't we? Essentially, for the rest of the season. That is a lot of rest and recovery time and preparation that slot hasn't had a huge amount of between games this season. So...

So, yeah, they're going to have to be ready because I think, I mean, I'm sure we'll talk about it a lot more clearly in the time. But you just know that Everton will look at what Newcastle did to Liverpool at Wembley and go, well, we'll have a little bit of that. Because, you know, Everton aren't anywhere near as good as Newcastle. But the approach will be similar, won't it? In terms of trying to rough Liverpool up, to bully them, to go long, you know, to play for second balls, to play for set pieces, make it stop-start.

you know, don't let there be any real flow to the game. You can see it now. So Liverpool have to learn lessons from Sunday. A chance of silverware has gone up in smoke. But yeah, now it's about making sure that there's no more damage done to this season. Because it would be, you know, of course if Liverpool win the title then no one's really going to care how they do it. But having been so good for so long this season,

It would be a real shame if they just did enough. Do you know what I mean? If it suddenly became nervy and went down to the last few weeks because they can't allow that to happen. Last week, I was saying, you know, maybe not enough jeopardy towards the end of the season. It suddenly feels like, you know, there's all sorts of pressure on Liverpool. I mean, they are 12 points above Arsenal and Arsenal would have to finish the league extraordinarily well to catch them up.

you know, they've got some tough fixtures coming up as well. I mean, to answer your question there, Tony, about what does slot need to do? I think the biggest problem for me watching Liverpool is the front three at the moment. Now, Salah has obviously... Haven't you written a book about Salah called Chasing Salah? I certainly have. I mean, he didn't have a good day against Newcastle. But, you know, I was thinking about this and,

When you look back and assess the clock period, it always felt like if Salah didn't get you, Mane would. And if Mane didn't get you, Firmino would. And if one of those players on their day had a good game, it would just carry the team over the line. You know, they were that influential, the three of them. They were that talented. Whereas now, it just feels like it's down to Salah, to me, to do it. Now, that's not saying Liverpool...

play through Salah but they're relying on him coming up with like a moment out of nothing like he has done quite a lot this season because I'm afraid Diaz he has periods of thinking when you think God he's you know he's got a lot about him and then

Other periods where he just appears to do nothing. At the start of the season, I thought Jota was going to be a really important player for Liverpool because if you keep him fit, he inevitably scores goals. But he just seems to have lost his confidence, lost his way at the moment. And then obviously Gakbo has been injured. Chiesa has barely played. So I think he's going to have to find a way of getting a tune out of them, which sounds ridiculous because he's got six players

five or six options up there. I mean, I haven't even mentioned Nunes. So he's going to have to find a way to get some of those players given Salah some support in every possible way because that's the area that, you know, that I think needs the most work done to at the moment. You know, it can't just all be on Salah. And of course, it might not be on Salah at all pretty soon given the way, you know, he hasn't signed a contract yet. So,

There's a lot to think about there. Do you think, I've got a quick question on Salah. I don't know whether this is the case, but I just wonder whether, because he was so, so far from his usual self on Sunday. And I just wondered whether part of that was the impact of going out of the Champions League and missing out on that and the implications in terms of the Ballon d'Or.

because it's highly unlikely now, isn't it? Despite his domestic heroics this season without the Champions League glory to go with it. I just wondered if that played a part because he was, you're absolutely right that he can't always bail Liverpool out. He can't always ride to the rescue, but

He had 23 touches in, what was it, 101 minutes. It was only the third time in nearly 400 games for the club he's had no shots and not created a chance in a game. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I think just alone getting knocked out of the Champions League, you know, Ballon d'Or aside, I think he felt that Liverpool could go and win that competition this year. Yeah. They've had...

you know, a bad draw in PSG. They've been very unlucky with the draw, haven't they, Liverpool? Well, I mean, as we've said in the pub before, if they beat PSV and Arsenal spanked them, you know, scored seven. Well, I guess, though, Tony, you could say, well, if they played a strong team in that game as well, you know, there's got to be some game where you can't just play your strongest team every game. But I take your point. Yeah, but I mean, I still think...

given their arsenal spanked them so badly a fairly weak team possibly yeah even the team that he picked maybe you'd expect him more out of that team and maybe again it reminds that sort of the second rung of players that Liverpool have just aren't quite good enough to navigate your way through a season I think the start in 11 is a very good start in 11 maybe one or two areas still need improvements but beyond that you know they've got

decent players but it just says to me given the way slotters has sort of operated it he's either overestimated the physical capabilities of his players or he just doesn't fancy some of the players who who haven't been getting as many minutes it's one of those two things isn't it so yeah i forgot i forgot what the original point was now sorry i was trying there was no point there was no point to anything today today there's no salad sorry sally yeah sally i mean i i

Body language. I mean, you can always tell when Salah is irritated and annoyed. I didn't see any of those scenes against Newcastle. He seemed quite passive, didn't he? You know, like he was sort of... Yeah. I thought it was clear early on he just wasn't on it. Do you know what I mean? Sometimes when you look at him and you think, oh yeah, you know, you...

You got that spark about you today. I just didn't think, even in the first five or six minutes, Livramento... He had a good game. Yeah, he had a good game. But yeah, it was... But I agree. I don't know. I just think the other... I mean, some of the stats regarding the other forwards are pretty scary. Jota's got no goals in 10.

Diaz has got one goal in 18. Darwin, one goal in 13. When we've said all season, that's why it's laughable for anyone to point the finger at Salah and say, why didn't he bail us out? It's like, come on, how many times has he bailed Liverpool out this season? Jota, I was surprised he started him, especially if part of the game plan was,

to try and negate Newcastle's press by going long. It's like, well, if you're going to do that, play Nunes. And then at least you've got more of a chance of either picking up the first one or getting the second ball. Jota, to me, is like stuck in a real...

slump at the minute. Same with Diaz. You know, you think that kind of goal spree that he went on in the autumn is a distant memory now. And it just feels like Gagpo obviously has been the second biggest goal threat all season.

his injury came at a really bad time because I thought he was really, really poor again on Sunday, having been really poor and not looked fully fit when he came off the bench against PSG. And then you look at Chiesa and you think, well, he's been underplayed, hasn't he? I think he was the one bright spark for me. And I'd say Elliot and Jones as well did well off the bench, I thought, but

At least Chiesa, he just, I don't know, there was just a bit of intensity that was completely and utterly lacking from Liverpool's other attackers. And, you know, Chiesa's played, I think he's played 25 minutes of Premier League football all season. He looked like he was willing to gamble things a little bit, Chiesa, I thought when he came on. Not perfect performance, obviously, but at least he has a goal. There were certain behavioural things that did annoy me. I mean, I thought...

From the first few minutes, Trippier gave Diaz a little welcome to the game. And it was almost like Diaz just didn't fancy it from that moment. And then, you know, when Canarte got substituted, shaking his head, I was like, mate, you got hauled off for cramp in the biggest game of the season the other day. And now you're shaking your head because you're getting substituted. It's like, how's the management to be able to necessarily trust you, you know, as the game goes on? I just thought...

I get really... Maybe it's because I'm not particularly scientifically minded, but when you get taken off for cramp against one of the toughest teams that you're playing, it makes me question, you know, about their personality and their commitment almost, you know, to get a result for Liverpool. So then he's getting...

taken off again, shaking his head. I'm like, mate, you couldn't wait to get off the other day. Maybe I'm being overly critical, but I just thought certain things... No, no, that was exactly the same thought process I had. Watched him limping off. You know, I actually said out loud, that better be more than cramp. That better be more than cramp. And I'll tell you what, it's like a competition to see who's the grumpiest. I mean, you know, James normally...

Mr. Sunshine. You know, he's not even taking any joiners' food. I know. Although, I've got to say the lasagna at Wembley was decent. Really? Yeah, it was a selection of cold meats and salads. A bit of garlic bread as well, yeah. Yeah, it was all downhill after that. Yeah. Well...

Before we go, it is important to say that we're going to win the league. Even if we limp home, we'll win the league. And that's a remarkable achievement. But, Si, do you get a sense that the rebuild needs to start here? Well, yeah. I mean, for me, it feels like the end of something, really. I mean, I don't think this is a team that they're going to stick with over the next couple of years, really. I mean, it's sort of the end of the Klopp team.

It feels to me, we've spoken many times before,

about the goalkeeping situation. I mean, Alison Becker remains one of the big sellable assets, which it concerns me that. It just concerns me. That's not me saying that, you know, it's something they should do because I think he's the best goalkeeper in the world. But when you bring in a goalie for, you know, 25 million, you're obviously intending to use him at some point. You know, when we've sort of, we've been critical on the podcast of Liverpool letting go of the players for nothing, you know, when they're sort of over the hill.

I do wonder whether they're thinking about it. So, you know, Robertson, question marks over Robertson, Van Dijk, Canarte, Trent, whole defence gone potentially. The only area which looks settled is the midfield. It would also look knackered. So they need some help in that department. And then you've got Salah, question marks,

and the other five forwards, you know, the other five forwards, I would say there's question marks hanging over them. It's a remarkable situation, really, because Liverpool, as you said, Tony, are more than likely going to end up champions. And I think Slot's done a remarkable job, you know, in his first season. I don't think it should be glossed over because they're so far ahead, opening up that gap. But,

I do think that there's a lot of change ahead for Liverpool and that does concern me because usually when you talk about change, you're talking about transition and when you talk about transition, you talk about no trophies.

Well, I'll tell you what. It's something to go away and think about it. And your job this week, the next few days, is to emerge from this cloud. I mean, there's an actual cloud around, James. You can't see it, people, because it's a podcast. But I can actually see it. I can see it because I'm watching them. And it's... You know, he's walking, he's slumped. I want you to emerge from that. And...

On Thursday, I want you to come back and tell me how Liverpool rebound from this, how we're going to march out of the season victorious and into their next campaign. Good luck. So that's it from Walk On, your Liverpool podcast brought to you by The Athletic. Thanks to James and Simon for joining me on a day when they're both dressed all in black as well, you know. We'll be back later in the week. We'll catch you then. The Athletic FC Podcast Network.