Time to talk Trent as exit talk intensifies
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Stop by a Warby Parker store near you. The Athletic FC Podcast Network. All right, Reds. Tony Evans here with Walk On, your Liverpool podcast from The Athletic. I'm here with Simon Hughes and the returning James Pearce.

I was told you were on a review tour of the KFCs of South Ossetia. Is this true? Is this true? I mean, there's a little bit of truth in there. I was mainly carb loading in Venice for a long weekend with the missus and my parents for their 50th wedding anniversary. One of the comedy moments was actually my mum being pickpocketed

And her mobile phone being so old that the pickpocket gave it back to her about 30 seconds later. Are you sure it just wasn't a burner phone? But she was like, thank God he didn't steal my fridge magnets. I was like, what? Like, honestly, where do you start? What was the best bit of grub? Oh, yeah. Gotta be the pizzas. Surely you go to Venice for the seafood? Sure.

Sorry. I was having a pizza for lunch every day. Ah, fair enough. I had some like, oh, the clam, the clam spaghetti. And then I also had this like crab and king prawn, like linguine. Oh, it was tremendous. Sounds very nice, James. Ah, yes, yes. Now we move back from the James's culinary adventures podcast to walk on. Well, anyway, you didn't miss anything. Oh,

Oh, did you? Did we actually miss anything? Well, before we move on to that, we better have the three words. Si, have you got three words for us today? I do. I'm going to be a smartass.

and say Treaty of Rome. Treaty of Rome. Have a think about that. It's not about one of James's trips. It relates to the Bosman ruling of 1995. Hence, the whole podcast is going to be discussing the consequences of that moment. It certainly is. James, I hope yours are a bit more like, you know, well, less opaque. Yeah.

Bring on Everton. Bring on Everton, yeah, I agree with that. Anyway, let's see what you're saying. Joe Davis says, adios, Trent Lair. I like the mix of Spanish and Scouse in there, you know, it's, um, yeah, two, two. Billy Parry, Mach Manaman, Owen, Trent, Tom Williams, Virgil and Moe, question mark. Jitesh Patel, didn't mean more, ooh.

To join our community of listeners on Facebook, just search Walk On Podcast and join the group. So on Tuesday, Si, there was a lot of noise about Trent. But to actually move the story on, is there any more clarity than we had before? Well, yes and no. I mean, it's the first real confirmation that something is afoot. But it doesn't confirm that Trent is leaving. That's the simplest way of...

I think a lot of people tend to believe that he is going to go when they interpret this information. But the development that Real Madrid are engaging him and want him, that's not really moved the story along that far, I would say. I mean, there's been a huge reaction to it, certainly online.

But when I saw the news, I didn't think, oh, that's moved everything along to a point where an announcement is coming straight away. So yeah, a bit of a strange week. I mean, it is International Week, isn't it? And a lot of people have little else to focus on, I guess. I think what Simon said was spot on in terms of

The context of it being the international break, everyone craving clarity and certainty on the contract situations, not being much else to talk about. You think of just how completely, utterly pointless a

A lot of the international games have been during this break. And then, of course, there's been this kind of almost constant stream of stories in Spain that it's done, it's all signed, all the rest of it. And then there were more of them on Monday evening that then, of course, outlets in the UK picked up on Tuesday morning and, again, regurgitated a lot of that, that it's done, it's happening. As David Ornstein reported for us, it's not.

complete and in fact it's almost like as you were in terms of Real Madrid very confident of signing Alexander-Arnold on a free transfer this summer they're still working to finalise that deal they have to inform Liverpool if and when an agreement is formally reached and that hasn't happened up to this point

So, yeah, I mean, I think the kind of direction of travel has been pretty obvious for quite some time, hasn't it? I mean, I've lost count of how many times we've talked about the three contract situations and Trent has always been different than the other two, hasn't it? And we know, you know, the lure of Real Madrid. We talked about it back in January in terms of, you know, Real Madrid don't just come in for you on a whim in the way that they did just before the January window opened. But...

at the moment, there is no certainty. So, yeah, for all the noise and the emotion of the last 24 hours, that clarity is yet to actually be forthcoming. Yeah, we've said all that, so we've caveated everything. But is there any of the three of us that think there's any possibility of him staying? No. No. No, I don't, but...

The original point does remain, I think. It's not so much of a development, isn't it? It just feels like a lot of noise at the moment. But yeah, I mean, maybe people are right to feel sort of, to react in that same, in that way to some degree because...

if we're saying it sort of feels that way then lots of other people are going to feel that way as well yeah yeah and I mean I remember you saying say on this podcast that you would have given or you thought the club might have given Trent the captaincy as a sign of commitment to him

Do you think that would have changed anything? Well, all I can draw upon is the conversations that I had two summers ago. So the summer of 2023, and it was definitely at that point, a curiosity to see what was going to happen at Liverpool. It never felt to me, you know, unless I was just being totally and utterly lied to, which I don't think I was. You know, I think there was an intrigue as to see what was coming next, because obviously, as we've spoken about many times,

Jürgen Klopp and Jörg Schmadiker were sort of running the transfer policy. Mike Gordon had stepped away. There wasn't really a sporting director dealing with retention. The feeling that I got was that they wanted to know sort of what was going on on that front because two years out, ordinarily, things start happening. And in that summer, of course, the captaincy was given to Virgil van Dijk. And I did write that summer. I remember writing about it saying...

you know, I actually think long term, they should probably give it to Trent because, you know,

Both players are out of contract in the same summer. With Van Dijk's age, Liverpool are never likely to make a huge amount of money on Virgil van Dijk in terms of sourcing a replacement, whereas with Trent, he was worth a lot of money. And aside from his potential leadership qualities, I just thought it was worth safeguarding him over Virgil van Dijk while giving him an extra layer of responsibility, which may kick his game onto a new level.

So it's one of the great unknowns. I suppose you can't be definitive on it, but I think that it would be very difficult as Liverpool captain to walk away from your boyhood club, as Steven Gerrard found out. I think giving up that responsibility would have posed more questions for him, put it that way, as it is, he's the vice-captain. But of course, we still don't know about what the captain's doing so that that role might become available in the summer.

It's just quite clear to me that there's been a big gap that Liverpool haven't filled or the ownership have not filled, which has allowed thoughts of an alternative career elsewhere to

to germinate. He's not doing anything wrong, Trent. He's seeing out his contract. I'm a bit conflicted about this sort of argument because on one hand, you want Liverpool to make money out of their players. You know, it's not good business. I think at that age, it's bad to lose a player of that, you know, that profile. So ordinarily, you'd want to make money on that player. But equally, he's not doing anything wrong. His contract is up. Liverpool have allowed it to get to that position.

and he's going to run it down. It seems, it seems anyway at this stage it still hasn't been signed. There's been no, certainly no sort of reaction from Trent's side saying, you know, at least publicly that,

It's in the balance at the moment, which I think is quite showing, I must say. James, yeah, I mean, and the thing that I find interesting, it's probably the wrong word, rather aggravating really, is that the club made it clear, certainly a year ago and even beyond that, that of the three out-of-contract players, Trent was the priority and somehow it's not being done. And I mean, one of the basic precepts of...

a policy like Fenway Sports Groups in terms of the transfers is to protect your assets. You know, get him under contract, make some sort of agreement that he can leave under certain circumstances and then give him a pay rise and then, you know, move on. But it doesn't work like that.

It hasn't, no, no. And we've talked about it many times, haven't we, about that kind of period around kind of summer 23 when you would have expected Trent's contract to be addressed and sorted out. I think I'm right in saying he'd signed new deals in 2017, 2019 and 2021. And of course, that summer of 2023 was all the upheaval, wasn't it? And then, of course, Klopp

deciding in the November that he was going to be leaving and then everything was kept on ice for a bit until you know essentially until Richard Hughes came through the door you know about a year ago so I certainly think that it's a really bad mistake isn't it that it wasn't those discussions weren't opened earlier with the caveat that when you read a lot of the stuff coming out of Spain and we know how closely aligned somewhere like Marca is with Real Madrid

There was a few things from their reporting recently that kind of jumped out at me, was that for Real Madrid, it's been a long-term operation. Marco have talked about this being two years in the making. Now, I don't know 100% whether that's true or not. But of course, you know, if they were already on to Trent in 2023, two years ago saying, we want you, but we want you as a free agent, because that is how they've

tended to do things with with big star names in recent years then who's to say that Trump would have signed if that contract had been under his nose 12 months earlier that is a matter of debate isn't it you know the other thing in marker that jumped out at me was that you know Real Madrid's priority has been with the ultimate goal of ensuring he did not renew his contract at Liverpool and

So, you know, that was crucial to them. So this idea that, well, could he have signed with a release clause or whatever else and, you know, and then Liverpool would have made money out of it. I just don't think, I don't think that was, that was really what was on the table. Yeah, but say, if this was going on, we know what football's like. Football's a relatively small place and surely Liverpool would have picked up whispers. And at that point, if you do,

do start to see that sort of scenario emerging, then last summer you've got to say, nah, you know what, you're up for sale, mate. Well, you know, there's two teams, if you like, at play here, isn't it? And Liverpool will have, I'm sure, spent a lot of time strategising their own exit strategy and how they handle, A, what happens, and B, how it seems and appears, right?

I mean, bearing in mind you've got three players out of contracts at the same time, three key players. Sounds to me like they haven't spent much time strategising. I suppose there's things that we don't know, isn't it? That's the reality. We don't know at which point Trent made the decision to go. If an offer had been made last summer, we don't know whether Liverpool were willing to entertain that offer at that point. I personally think that

Given that, you know, this season could have been sort of a transitional season with the manager coming in. It's obviously not worked out that way. I would have been tempted to let him go personally last summer and get money for him. But as it's got closer to the end of his contract, you know, the value in that has diminished, I would say.

It just all depends what, you know, what sort of offer would have come their way as well. I mean, it's not an easy thing to manage on both sides. I suspect, you know, a new manager, Arne Schlock coming in would have wanted to keep him, really. And if his future was in the balance at that point, probably a new manager would have tried to back himself to have a role in convincing him to stay. But...

As it is, you know, I think it looks very unlikely that he's going to stay. It's still, I mean, I've got to say the other two still haven't signed. This is not with any inside information or anything like that. But as we said all along, the longer it goes on, sort of the less likely it seems to me that they'll stay. Yeah.

So it's a position that is a sticky one for Liverpool, really. I mean, you're losing your captain, potentially your vice-captain and your top scorer and one of the all-time leading scorers all at once with no money to show for it. Now, the financial position is better than maybe we think as well, given the conversation we had in the previous podcast. But nevertheless, it leaves a big hole. You're looking for your recruitment to come up with some real...

big decisions, you know, this summer. I think it's a shame. I actually think Trent's making a mistake personally by going. I'm sure we'll get into the meat of that. We certainly will. We certainly will. Remember, if you want to get in touch with us and even feature on the pod, email us at walkonattheathletic.com.

If you send us a voice note, you've got an even better chance of featuring. And that's precisely what Evie Allen-Jones has done. Hi, everyone at WalkOn. My name is Evie. I've wanted to send this voice note for a while. I know from my accent, you probably can tell I'm not from Liverpool, but my dad and all his family are. And even though I'm from London, I've been a massive supporter of Liverpool my whole life.

I just wanted to ask you guys and I guess everyone that's listening what their thoughts are on Trent leaving and the reaction to Trent leaving. I obviously know that him being a scouser and the scouser on our team is

And what he's always said about it means more probably hurts everyone. And I think because he's representing everyone from Liverpool by being in the team and choosing to leave is really hurt supporters. And I wanted to know what your thoughts are on everyone turning on him and kind of dismissing everything he's done for the team. Is it fair for us to forget about him and write him off and say that he was just another right back?

and the corner wasn't taken that quickly or do we honour what he did for Liverpool? I guess being around the city you guys can say why it means so much to people to have a scouser in the team and represent Liverpool in the city. I'm a bit unsure how I feel about the situation. I want to see how it plays out and how he reacts to the news coming out at the end of the season but I don't feel like it's fair to completely write him off because he's done so much for the club.

But I do think that, as we all know, the situation from all parties has been a pretty bad situation. So yeah, I'd love to know your guys' thoughts. And I'm sure my dad's listening and is very excited if I get this voice note played in the episode. But yeah, we love you guys so much. And yeah, let's see how it goes. See how this plays out. Hopefully the rest of the contracts are signed soon.

Well, thank you for those nice words, Evie. But I think it sums up a bit of the confliction that's going on. But James, before we start on all that, this means more is probably the worst catchphrase ever that a football club's come up with. And it gets thrown up every time some situation like this comes along. We come not to play. Actually, that's the worst one. That's the worst one.

Trent didn't come up with it, did he? Let's be fair about that one. Yeah, do you know what? It's been really interesting seeing the kind of fallout over the last 24 hours. And I must admit, I do find it, going back to what you said before, a little bit bizarre because we don't even have anything official, any clarity yet. And I think the other thing worth saying is I don't think this was some kind of orchestrated attempt to like kind of

soft launch it and get it out there. I just think it's international break noise, lots of reports in Spain, places picking up here. And then of course, it kind of snowballs. But I think I'd say amongst my mates, it's probably been about 50-50 actually. The WhatsApp groups were pretty lively yesterday between people angry and feeling kind of let down. And how can a local lab that

has talked about potentially being a one-club man and wanting to captain Liverpool one day. How could he walk away? And people say, especially because we're so good at the moment that you look at Liverpool on the brink of winning the Premier League. And of course, for some of those other local players who left previously, you think of McManaman and Owen, they left because they felt that Liverpool weren't at that level to compete for the biggest prizes. But then...

I can also see the other side of it. And I've had lots of people say this as well, that, do you know what? He's been here since he was six years old. He's 26 now. You know, he didn't cost Liverpool anything. You know, he's, what has he played? Nearly 350 games for the club. He's won everything. Don't begrudge him the chance to embark on a new challenge and all the rest of it. And, you know, and very, very few players do stay in one place for their entire career, don't they?

So, yeah, I think it's been a real mixed bag. And I think sometimes the angry side of things obviously make the most noise, don't they? But I've been surprised, actually, the number of people I've spoke to, you know, picking up on the voice note there, that have actually been a bit more understanding of his decision. Yeah.

The thing is, sometimes you forget, particularly with social media, that you can feel more than one thing at once, and more than one thing can be true. But, say, one thing that is true, and will be if he leaves, is that one less scouser in the team, and there's not many scousers in the team. You know, obviously Curtis Jones. But you think to yourself...

Scouse superstars are pretty rare. Well, this is the thing. It becomes a particular issue in times of difficulty. Let's not forget that Liverpool, I think the 86 Cup final, Tony, didn't field an English player, I think I'm right in saying. Nobody was bothered that there was a lack of...

locality in that period in the team you know a couple of players came and went so all it seems to matter is is is whether the players perform and if they perform nobody cares where you come from really it becomes an issue when the team isn't doing well and I suppose the concern is next season if they were to reshape the team over the summer and win the league again next year that would be an amazing achievement so really you know anywhere next season is down to some extent so it could become an issue then I mean

When Steven Gerrard left, I always thought about this baton that got passed, you know, all the way back to Shankly, really, through Highway and all the other Liverpool Academy players that came and went. And temporarily, when Steven Gerrard left for one year, there wasn't really an Academy or School of Excellence or players come up through the system, their presence in the team. Obviously, it now falls on Curtis Jones, who, you know what, I would back him.

to embrace that position, to be honest. I think he's waiting himself for the next big step to make. I think he's becoming a really good player who I'd like to see play more games, not just because he's local, I just think he's a really good player and can potentially become a great player for Liverpool if he handles his career properly. So that excites me. But to answer the question about how I feel about it, maybe I'm just getting a bit too...

too sort of familiar with these situations over the years, players coming and going. I think Trent doesn't seem to me like he's done the club over or anything like that. You know, I'm not hearing any whispers of that, the way he's handled it. One thing that I've got off my mind the last couple of days is that, you know, the ones that were like, you know what, he's got every right to go. He's done everything for Liverpool, you know, Real Madrid's great move for him, playing in a different country. You know, it'll be a great experience, won't it?

But they also say they're not going to be waiting to jump and defend him if things start going wrong. And I'm not saying that the media has been sympathetic to him because I don't think people have. But the one thing is for certain is that the media in Spain will be waiting for his mistakes and there'll be fewer people willing to defend him. And I think that'll be very new to him. And seeing how he handles that on the pitch is going to be very interesting.

Maybe at times he's felt he hasn't had any defence, but I think Liverpool certainly match going. Fans, people who watch the team regularly can see, despite certain shortcomings in his game, that he's a world-class footballer when he performs and accepts some of the things that he can't do quite as well because of the things that he does really well. He's world-classer. So I don't know whether that,

the nuance around him will exist in Madrid. So credit to him for backing himself to think, well, I can deal with that. But I do wonder whether he quite really knows what it's going to be like, you know, for him. But I also wonder, you know, thinking in his head, I'm jumping between sides here, you know, I'm like you, I'm a bit conflicted by it all. But the bottom line is Liverpool have left three players potentially winding down the contract at the same time. And he might be thinking, you know what? I've had a right go here. You know, there's a period of transition here.

If the other two players were on board, maybe he might be thinking, well, we've still got, you know, a good basis for a team. You know, do I want to commit maybe the next two years of my career, which is possibly the prime years to a team that,

you know, it's not a certainty that they're going to do well. Now, being from Liverpool, my temptation would be, I'm just not bothered about Real Madrid, really, you know what I mean? I'm not bothered about that. It's like Jamie Carragher was like, well, who's bigger than Liverpool? There is that attitude. But then again, as Cara said before, you know, he never had the opportunity, really. He was never having people pulling him away, potentially. So there is that difference there.

So, lots of conflicting things can be right at once. I just, I've got a feeling he might regret it. You know, if he comes back to Liverpool, whether he wants to live in Liverpool when he's retired or in Cheshire or wherever, he can win everything at Real Madrid and nobody, none of his mates really are going to be arsed.

I think it's difficult, James, to talk about players' status and, you know, are they club legends while they're still playing? I think you probably need 10 years' distance from the career end and to come up with a comprehensive view on that. But it'll certainly affect his status, won't it? At least in the short term. Yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely. I mean, essentially, whether...

when you talk about legendary status, it comes down to personal opinion, doesn't it? In terms of the extent to which you think that legacy is somehow tainted by leaving at the age of 26. I think it stands to reason that, of course, he won't be regarded if, as expected, he goes to Real Madrid this summer in the same bracket as Gerrard and Carrigan. Because

one of the reasons that they are adored as much as they are years and years after they stopped playing was not only what they achieved in a Liverpool shirt, but the loyalty and longevity that they gave the club. And, you know, of course, you know, Steven Gerrard wasn't strictly a one club man because he ended up playing for LA Galaxy, but what was he, 35 by the time he went over there? He was, you know, as near as dammit a one club man. So yeah, it does mean that he's

he won't be remembered in that bracket. But I also don't go along with this idea that this kind of like tramples his legacy and that just because he's leaving on a free this summer, that everything he's done up to this point no longer really counts because, I mean, that's nonsensical. You know, he's played such an important part.

in an era that's brought more success than I think anyone could have imagined. You know, you think of, you know, the Champions League triumph for 2019, you know, part of the team that ended the 30-year wait for the Premier League title. You know, again, I think another thing that's probably worth saying is

I actually think he's had a really good season this season, especially in the circumstances with all the noise around it and all the speculation. Yeah, he had a wobble, a big wobble when Man United came to town and you could see that all the noise going into that game had affected him.

But I think for the most part, he has been able to park that and has been really important. You only had to look at the Carabao Cup final a couple of weeks ago to see how Liverpool lacked creativity without him out on that pitch. So, you know, the other thing that I find genuinely baffling is this idea that, right, if he's made his mind up, that's it.

he doesn't play for the club again. And of course, it's not relevant for a few weeks at least anyway because of his ankle injury. But he hopes to be back playing by the end of April.

you know I think that's a no-brainer of course he if he's fit then of course he has to play for Liverpool again I don't understand why you cut your nose off to spite your face on that and you know I'm sure we'll come on to talk about where Liverpool go after Trent but as good as Conor Bradley is he's still relatively unproven at the highest level and he's had injury issues and Trent has been such an incredible you know in terms of

what he's done in that role that I don't think anyone has done previously. And it's always done my head in that it feels like people are so keen to focus on what he can't do or what he's not unbelievably good at rather than the array of strengths he has got. So for me, you can't rewrite history, essentially. I think if this is the end, he will leave as a legend. But

by deciding to go, he gives up the opportunity to be in that top bracket that Gerrard and Carragher belong in. I was just going to say that, James. I think he should be remembered as a legendary player, given the role he's played in the rise of Liverpool. For some people, he won't be anymore. That is the reality of it. You can come up with all sorts of arguments, but if you leave Liverpool, if you're a local player,

Some people just won't accept it, whether that's right or wrong. That's another matter. What he has given up, and I think this is a massive thing to give up this because so few people or so few players get the opportunity to get there. And again, you're right. It's how do you define this? But the absolute greats, really, if we're certainly in the last 30 years, 40 years,

tends to fall between Kenny Dalglish and Steven Gerrard with, dare I say it, you know, as a player, maybe Graeme Schooner somewhere just a little bit below that as well. Tony might disagree there, but he's given up on getting there now. That will be gone. And the other thing that he's given up on, which I think I wrote this in September, whether it matters, it might not matter to him, but I think these things do matter, you know? So,

He is next in line to be Liverpool captain. Virgil van Dijk won't go on forever. I suspect if he signs this contract, it'll be no more than two years. That's just my guesswork, really. But he's given up on the Liverpool captaincy. The last local Liverpool captain to win the title was Phil Thompson in 1980. That's a long time. Trent could do something that Steven Gerrard couldn't do. Sadly, rightly or wrongly, Trent...

certainly plays in a better team than Steven Gerrard, I would argue. But, I mean, there's no guarantee that he could get there, of course, as Liverpool captain. But he'll never know. You know what I mean? He'll never know. So, he'll only be doing it at Real Madrid, potentially, what lots of other players have done. I think the thing that rubs me up the wrong way in terms of the things that he said is about, like, this idea he spoke in the autumn about changing the game and winning, you know, winning the Ballon d'Or and stuff like that, which...

Okay, I respect your ambition, but it said to me then that he was definitely thinking about more than Liverpool, you know what I mean? Surely playing for Liverpool is enough, you know, like anybody, any local lads would do anything to play for Liverpool and be in that position. It's not something you give up easily. And I think he's given up an awful lot.

and become a more arguably more successful footballer in a team for Real Madrid whether that manifests into a more successful individual and I think where people get upset about this it's become a

a conversation about him as an individual, what he wants, you know, what he wants. And we know, like in Liverpool, it's the collective that always matters in Liverpool and it feels like he's sort of set himself outside that collective now by talking about himself in this way. Now, I personally don't have a problem with it, you know, but I can understand why some people who listen to these words do.

Then, of course, there's a counter-argument, isn't there? Real Madrid have won six of the last 11 Champions Leagues. That's tempting. It is tempting. But you know what? Steve McManaman, yes, went to Real Madrid. And on reflection, Liverpool were no closer over the subsequent years. Obviously, Steve McManaman didn't know that to win in the title.

What Steve McManaman had said at Liverpool, had he won the league or were they closer to the league? We don't know, I guess. But all I know is when he comes back to Anfield, when Michael Owen comes back to Anfield, when other players largely have come back to Anfield...

Certainly if it seems like they've sort of abandoned the club. No matter how hard you try, people just don't feel the same way about you. Like, at best, they're like, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, you want excitement, really. You know what I mean? I think you can feel when people aren't really having you that much anymore. I think, given what Trent's won, that will probably be a bit different. Like you say, he's won everything, whereas the others didn't. So I think...

I think that will make a huge difference. Fair enough. I just think the bottom line is I don't think anybody, most rationally minded people, won't begrudge him the move to Real Madrid, but they won't be cheering him on. They won't be defending him. They won't be impressed if he wins everything that he wants to win. Yeah, no, no. We'll begrudge him a bit. I mean, I want to begrudge it a bit. You know, I can see why you'd do it. But yeah, there's going to be begrudging. Yeah, no, I can understand. I mean, it's not nice when you see a player who's done...

so well for your team doing better arguably potentially for another team and you know people might say well it's Real Madrid what have they got with Liverpool well they're the biggest club in the world they're the biggest club in the world you know Liverpool have lost two Champions League finals to them over the last couple of years and that's hurt you know what I mean that has hurt that too after great seasons really bad endings to the season yep yep

Well, anyway, before we go any further today, we've a bit of housekeeping to undertake. We want to hear your feedback. We're asking you to fill out a quick survey about you and your podcast habits. So just head to theathletic.com forward slash athletic forward slash survey 25. Three lucky entrants will win £100 or $100 worth of Amazon vouchers. That's enough to buy four hardback copies of Si's Bootchase and Salah. You might have heard about it.

Snigger, snigger. And you'll still have some money left over. So, whether you're a long-time listener or a new one, we want your feedback. Go to theathletic.com forward slash athletic forward slash survey25. That's a lot of forward slashes. We'll also pop the link in the description of this episode for you. James, you've already mentioned the need for a replacement. And it kind of...

I was going to say, it's going to overshadow the rest of the season. The shadow is a massive anyway, even though we're winning the league. I hope it doesn't. I mean, I think it would be a real shame if the achievement of winning the league was...

there was that kind of side to it. I'd be surprised if we saw that inside the ground. I think with these things, it tends to be... I think the online world tends to be pretty different to the way things would work inside Anfield, I think. Have you been blamed for Zegsit yet? I'm sure I have been. I haven't checked the Twitter mentions in the last 24 hours, but I would imagine that...

I think it'll be a mixture, won't it? I think it would be more likely people either wishing him well or apathy and kind of almost pretending that he's not going as opposed to him getting any direct...

kind of criticism for his decision. Because like I said, I think it would be different if you could point at like, he's jacked it in, you know, he's not trying or he hasn't, you know, his mind's been in Madrid for six months. But I just don't think that's just not true, is it? It's just he has actually had a really, really good season. And of course, you know, he's got probably, you know, weeks of rehab now ahead of him with his ankle anyway. But yeah, it's going to be fascinating to see where Liverpool turn

in terms of a replacement, because, you know, you're wasting your time, aren't you? If you seriously think you're going to find someone who can do exactly what Trent Alexander-Arnold does, then you're looking for the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. It's not there. I just think Liverpool will need to evolve. And sometimes that's not the worst thing. You know, you become more unpredictable. You think, I think back to, you know, different scenario, of course, but, you know, you think with Coutinho,

you know, everyone thought, oh my God, you know, so much of the creative spark of the team went through Coutinho. You know, how can we possibly cope with that? And actually Liverpool got even better. And of course that was different because he went for a huge transfer fee that was reinvested. But,

there's no doubt that the evolution of the team benefited from being less predictable. And I think that will be the same now. I mean, slot, I think even with the way that Alexander Arnold's role has changed this season, we know that slot prefers a more kind of authentic fallback, doesn't he? And I think, you know, that that's why I think Connor Bradley definitely kind of fits the bill in terms of what slot is looking for. But the,

The decision is, do you spend big in terms of, you know, a name at right back who, you know, and then you've got proper competition in that place? Or do you back Conor Bradley to really step up as the number one and bring someone in?

to be his deputy I still think as good as Bradley has been like I said more more his injuries than anything else I just think surely you have to get someone with a decent profile I mean someone like Frimpong at Leverkusen you know he's been a lot of speculation thinking linking him with Liverpool for a while and I know he's more of a wing back isn't he than a than a right back but

Certainly attacking-wise, he's exciting. Yeah, Si, for me, that's the one thing where you can take some...

consolation out of is that the way the slot team has developed and the creative impetus has come from the midfield it means that if this would have happened a couple of years ago under a club team you'd be like oh what are we going to do but there's less necessity for someone of Trent's prodigious skills at fullback and a slot team would cope quite well with a more traditional

you know right back well yeah i accept that i mean i think despite we're not seeing trent you know bombing down the wing and putting low crosses in whip crosses in like we did in the early years of clop and then we're not seeing him as much really tucking into midfield and trying to play this sort of halfback quarterback role as he did for a period of time later under clop

But what we are seeing, and we have seen this season, is a lot of Salah's success, I think, this season has been Trent just hooking a pass down the touchline. You know, that's one of his big skill, you know, big bonuses of how... Sorry, his big talent, you know, is his passing range. And you just see Trent sort of hooking this pass, which gives Salah... Early pass, which gives Salah the space. So I do wonder... We saw, you know, at Wembley,

Salah hasn't been quite as effective when Trent hasn't been there. They've been a partnership down that side for such a long time. So I wonder whether Liverpool are thinking along those lines as well around Salah. Maybe it is a time to break it up. But I really like Connor Bradley. I'm concerned about his injury record already. And I must stress, I think there's a big difference between stepping into the void of Trent and coming on as a sub

playing some big games as he did against Real Madrid fantastically, but still knowing that Trent's pretty much the first choice. And then there's a difference between that and becoming the number one right back with the pressures and everything else, or an established first team player and all the pressures that come with that. And not only that, being the successor of a player who's left having achieved so much and has left in relatively...

what people might see as controversial circumstances. So there'll be a lot of focus on him potentially. But that being said, given all the changes happening at Liverpool, potentially, you know, I think we're going to be looking at a lot of players and how they perform over the next six to 12 months, potentially. So I do think though, you know, it does seem that Slott wants a different thing. You know, he demands different things out of his fullbacks at the moment, but that might evolve as well. You know, when I saw his teams...

A fine odd. There was a bit more going on with the right back, put it that way. Gia Trude was playing a much more expansive role. But on this season's evidence, you know, there hasn't been as much focus on Trent's creativity because that's come, you know, the team's played in a different way.

Well, James, to finish off, we've got to bring up the other two. Any movements on the other two and what's your opinion on what's likely to happen? No, nothing new on those two. Yeah, can't quite believe that it's nearly April and we're still...

sat here waiting for clarity on it. April Fool's Day, that's when they're going to announce the stay-in. They're all staying. Trent's going to go, April Fool's! Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, as we've said many times, this school of thought that like,

Van Dyke and Salah's new deals are all done and dusted and just tucked in a drawer away somewhere because they didn't want to put pressure on Trent. It's just numerous people who would know have told me that that is absolute nonsense. I think it's fair to say that if there'd been a positive resolution, we would know about it because they'd be shouting it from the rooftops. Do you know what? I'm still pretty...

confident actually on Van Dijk and Salah more because the lack of noise at the minute with anywhere else and I think there probably is a little bit of a game of brinkmanship there in terms of like maybe what's on the table clearly what's on the table and

It isn't quite what they wanted, whether that's in terms of what's guaranteed financially or bonuses or whatever else. But it's like, what other options do they have? And are they going to have to make concessions and kind of come to a compromise? So I just still think because both those players we know have spoken publicly, haven't they, about wanting to stay, about...

Van Dijk, we know you only have to look at the way he conducts himself, how much he absolutely loves being Liverpool captain. I just don't think he is ready to give that up.

And the same with Salah. How many times have we said it in terms of that competitive instinct, the hunger and drive in him and the obsession with rewriting the record books? And I don't think he's ready to go off into semi-retirement in Saudi Arabia. So, yeah, no news at the minute, but I'm certainly not in the camp of because it's reached this point, it's inevitable that they'll be waving goodbye come the end of May.

So James, you're leaving us today with a bit of cautious positivity. That's it from Walk On, your Liverpool podcast brought to you by The Athletic. Thanks to James and Simon for joining me and you too for listening. We'll be back next week and we'll be looking forward to a derby. Now, you've got to be excited about that, haven't you? We'll catch you then.