The good, the bad, the Darwin
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could have underlined a sensational substitution. All right, Reds, Tony Evans here with Walk On, your Liverpool podcast from the Athletic. I'm here with James Pearce and Simon Hughes. Well, we probably should have won her, could have lost her.

That's a point, isn't it? We're not Man City, so that's good. And James, actually, I wanted to ask you, did you actually turn up at Villa Perth or did you go to the Burnabout by mistake? If you don't understand that, people, go and listen to the previous podcast. I did double check what I'd put in the sat-nav. Yes.

Well, let's go. I actually drove myself as well. Oh. It felt like real progress. Did you give your chauffeur a night off? Unbelievable. Anyway, we'll go to those three words. Si, I'll start with you. I'm going to start a little bit cryptically because we're going to get into the meat of this discussion, I think, later. But context is everything.

Okay, okay. It strikes me as being a bit too clever for his own good there, James. I'm much more basic. Not now, Darwin. Yeah, yeah. Well, let's see what you're saying.

Michael Hubra, why Darwin, why? Zachary Osterman, crucial week ahead. Brian Lavin, we look tired. Alex Fogarty, in our hands. To join our community of listeners on Facebook, just search Walk On Podcast and join the group. I sort of agree with all of that, really. James, what do you think? Combination nerves, fatigue? You were there. Yeah, yeah.

It's a difficult one to make sense of, really. I can't say I walked away from Villa Park feeling down. I actually thought performance-wise there was a hell of a lot more to admire and be positive about than there was either at Goodison or at home to Wolves. Yeah, I think it was a game, like when you looked at the stats overall, I think Liverpool had, what, 17 shots to nine goals.

I think it was 2.5 against 0.7. So, you know, Liverpool had the better opportunities, although Villa finished strong, didn't they? I think you're right. Fatigue probably played a little part in the last 15 minutes. You know, I think Slot explained why he made a couple of the subs he did in terms of...

one eye on the Etihad and the fact that they're in such an intense period in terms of taking off Alexander-Arnold and Jota. And that probably hurt Liverpool because I thought at that point, and I'm sure we'll come on to talk about the Darwin miss, but at that point, it just felt like Liverpool had such momentum behind them. They'd go on and go on and win the game, but then they kind of lost that with the substitutions. And then

We're hanging on a bit last five or ten minutes, but it's not a bad point. I see the negativity again online and it's like...

You'd think Liverpool are about 14th. Like, they're eight points clear at the top of the Premier League with 12 games to go. And yeah, the gap could be down to five by the time they walk out of the Etihad on Sunday. But it's still an amazing position to be in. Oh, yeah, yeah. Well, we've talked about it before on this show. Some of the bedwetting that goes on is just ridiculous. But, say, I mean...

I blanked off a little bit when he started talking about XG. I did as well. I was like, is James malfunctioning there? He just turned into some sort of robot. But I, you know, the finishing was awful. Yeah, it wasn't good. The finishing wasn't good. I mean, I actually thought the performance was decent. I thought, you know, compared to the Wolves game and the Avington game, certainly for 65 minutes, I thought Liverpool looked like they were going to win.

Disappointing thing was the last 20 minutes really. It felt like they might lose it in the end. Villa, I thought their substitutes worked for them. I thought Marlon had a really good positive impact for them. Created chances, nearly scored himself, whereas Liverpool's substitutes just didn't work. So it was a really disappointing way to finish the game. But certainly for a good hour, more than an hour, I thought they passed the ball well and...

looked dangerous when they went forward, but the finishing, uncharacteristic from Jota. I mean, I actually thought he had a really good game, Jota, strangely. I think a lot of people might disagree with me, but I thought he really occupied the two centre-halves throughout the game. I thought he was a nuisance. I thought he was combining play well. So I just think sometimes you've just scored a goal. I don't like it when managers make changes just after they've scored a goal.

it's just a rule that I just think is that I go by I just think if you just scored a goal and it's just turned to 2-2 just leave it for a few more minutes and let the team get sit everyone back down yeah it just stopped Liverpool's momentum I thought and especially you know Trent scored he's made that great run I know I know they're nursing him through you know a bit of injury and tiredness and all that with this coming on but he's just made a driving run from midfield he's

And he takes them off. We've been so positive about slots, substitutions all through the season, James. But yeah, I agree. That one was a bit mad.

Yeah, do you know what? It was interesting actually listening to Slot this morning doing his pre-match briefing ahead of the Man City game on Sunday. He basically said that it was pre-planned in terms of how many minutes Trent would play. He said that he'd already had the conversation with Trent a week ago about how many minutes he saw him playing. And I think I agree with Simon. Like, I just think sometimes, you know, sometimes...

Sometimes, surely the eye test and just the feel of the game almost should go beyond the sports science element of we think he should only play X number of minutes. He could be in the red zone because of how long he's been out and the intensity of this period. I just think Trent...

you know, he's such a, he's one of those players in the, I think, you know, sometimes when things go against him, you think back to that Man United home game, you know, things can snowball against him when, I think, and it's a flip side of that is when he's flying, like he,

You just want him to keep doing what he's doing. And I think having just scored and you see what that meant to him. Yeah, of course, it was a big slice of fortune with the deflection off Mings. But yeah, I just felt that that hurt Liverpool taking him off. And then, of course, it was kind of magnified by the fact that you're losing Jota again.

for such an ineffective replacement in Nunes. I agree with Si. I thought that was the best we've seen of Jota since before he got injured against Chelsea back in October. I think

Yeah, he shouldn't get away scot-free when we talk about wasting chances because that was horrendous, that miss of his in the first half. But I think it would be wrong to just completely ignore everything else he contributed in that kind of hour or so he spent on the pitch. Oh, yeah. What I liked about Jotten, that chance, is the way he shaped his body so he could hit the corner flag. No, I absolutely agree. I thought he had quite a good game.

But, say, we've got a talk. We've got the D-word. And, you know, I like the big dope. You know, well, I want to talk about the chance, the open goal. I have to say...

I thought Sebozlai was really poor last night. It was one of those show pony performances where he's everywhere and he looks good and people go, oh, he has a good game, didn't he? But he actually did not have consequence. And he's running in on goal. He's in a central position and he squares it to Derwin, who's actually a bit wide and has a defender bearing down on him. Now, don't get me wrong, he still should score.

the ball should have been in the net from Shabazz Dias. Well, at the end of the day, he has missed an open goal. But it's not a Ronnie Rosenthal situation at the same stadium, you know, from many years ago at the other end. So I'll just explain that to listeners who might be unaware of it. But early 90s, so what was it, 91, 92? 92, I think that was. 92, was it? Yeah, 92. I think so.

Ronnie Rosenthal was dead centre of goal with the goalkeeper behind him and managed to... Did he hit the crossbar? Was it the crossbar? Yeah. Yeah, he could have crossed and it went over.

Yeah, and it went over. It's an incredible miss. And unfortunately, a miss that he is remembered by, even though he did actually come into Liverpool and contribute quite significantly to a title-winning season, didn't he, Ronnie Rosenthal? But he's remembered by that miss. I don't think it's quite at that level for Nunes. Because as you said, Tony...

Maybe it sounds like I'm making excuses for him. It wasn't as easy as it seemed because he did have a defender who was clearly going to make an attempt to try and stop him. And it was...

on the side of him that he would have preferred if it was coming across the other side, I guess he should be scoring. The issue is really, it's not about him, it's the impact it has on the rest of the team as well, I think. You know, like, because suddenly you could see the players lost a little bit of confidence around him, not in him, but in themselves. Like, what are we going to have to do to sort of win this game? No, let's be honest, it was in him. In him as well. Well, in him as well, but like, you know, we've gone from a situation where Nunes, it felt like a game for me where...

The first half, it actually might have suited Nunes a bit more because there was lots of spacing behind Villa's defence. And then Villa went quite deep the second half, which for me then said, well, you sort of need Jota to sniff out a chance. You know what I mean? Because that's what he tends to do. So it didn't seem like a game for Nunes for me as the game went on. And yet he came on and just had a really, really bad performance.

bad sort of 25 minutes I thought it wasn't just the chance it was obviously the when he's when he's clean through and the goalkeeper sort of comes out enthusiastically and he dodges out of it a bit just lift us over him I felt a bit sad for him in some ways because it was quite clear that they misaffected him but it's not good enough is it Tony the bottom line it's just not good enough and James I mean Slott's

Slott didn't mince his words, did he, today when he was talking about him? No, I thought it was really interesting because it was inevitable that Dahua Nunes was going to be a big topic of debate ahead of the City game. And you kind of just...

you're kind of expecting him to come out with the usual platitudes about, you know, Darwin remains really important, you know, still believe in him. He's still got a big part to play. But he said, he said basically, you know,

what worried me wasn't the miss but his behaviour after the miss and he went on to explain by that he said he just said he didn't work as hard as we need him to and we expect him to and he went on to talk about Wataru Endo being the the

The epitome of someone who, you know, things don't always go the way you want, but what you get with him is 100% unwavering commitment. And then again, later in the press conference slot was asked, you know, are you going to kind of reinforce to Darwin, you know, that he is still so important, you know, arm around the shoulder type?

And he said, well, yeah, but he said, but I'll also be reinforcing to him the importance of that work ethic, which, you know, is non-negotiable. Because I think that's the thing, there can be so much kind of focus on that mischance.

that, you know, that's not look, you know, it was more for me, it was more the bigger problem was how much it affected him. Because rather than having that in him of like, right, I'll make amends, I'll show you, I'll dig in, I'll scrap, I'll fight. You could see he was just feeling sorry for himself.

He was on the pitch for, when you include stoppage time, the best part of half an hour. Completed two passes. He won one out of five duels. He lost possession five times. You know, there was that other lightning quick break when Salah tees him up and he gets it just all horribly wrong where he thinks a Bozlai's made a run outside him to his right and he hadn't.

He got needlessly caught offside as well. I mean, there were other times when I was watching him and I was perfectly in line just outside the penalty area where Liverpool were attacking. And he's demanding the ball while he's three yards offside. And you're like thinking, what are you doing? And it does feel as if kind of, you know, it feels like such a long way back for him now in terms of

whether his Liverpool career is going to extend beyond May. Because I just, I think Slott's comments, you know, I think it's fair to interpret them as the words of someone who, you know, who is frustrated with what he is seeing. You know, it's, you know, he's the most expensive signing in Liverpool's history. And during, what is it, you know, Jota went four or five months without starting a Premier League game. And Nuno's only started six out of 16, I think.

You know, he's effectively, Slott has preferred to reinvent Diaz as a number nine than play Darwin. And when he serves up cameos like he did at Villa Park, you can understand why. And I must say, like, picking up on what you said about Zabozlai, I thought initially, having watched it live, I thought, why has he passed?

But then when I look at it back, Martinez comes out and does narrow the angle fast. I don't think Sobozlai has got a huge amount of space to play with in terms of that finish. And he does turn a 1v1 into an open goal. I mean, it's glaring. It's six yards out. Okay, it's not on his favourite right foot, Nunes, but...

I don't think we can give him a get out of jail free card by saying, oh, he wasn't expecting it because the Boz Light should have just tucked it away. No, I mean, you know, he should have scored. That's obvious. But, you know, when, sorry, when he has come on, I thought he was going to say Nunes off. Yeah, I thought it as well. I mean, I watched the game in the dispensary in Liverpool, which I'm sure you're familiar with. Is that a public house game?

It is a public house. I'm not familiar with these sort of places. Yeah, it was good. It was a nice, nice atmosphere in there. Not too busy, but, you know, enough where you could get a seat and actually concentrate on the match without, let's face it, too many n****s ruining your night. Yeah.

So, yeah, I don't usually watch it in the pub, but I did last night. And, yeah, that gag was made. Is he going to take Nunes off? I mean, that was another thing, wasn't it? I mean, Diaz came on very late. James, did he say anything about why Diaz came on so late? Yeah, yeah. He just said, again, he said it came down to managing game time. Because I assumed that the decision to play Curtis and set up slightly different was a reaction to...

to the way that Villa, you know, the way that they set up. But he basically said, no, it was just more because Cody is still touch and go for Sunday that he just thought he couldn't overburden Diaz. And he talked about, obviously, Diaz. I think Diaz was one of the few, wasn't he, who played at Plymouth?

And then, you know, obviously the Derby and then the Wolves game. So, yeah, it was purely because of the rotation element. I see. I mean, sometimes, back to the original points a few minutes ago, I just think you do have to sort of play the game that's in front of you a little bit more, you know. And I think that as much as Nunes obviously is getting criticism for his chances, I actually think slot...

I question, A, why, you know, the subs that he made and the times that he made them yesterday. I thought it didn't work for Liverpool. I mean, I'm not saying that, you know, they would have won had he chosen differently, but it just didn't work. That's the bottom line. You know, the choices that he made didn't work out for him. Oh!

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Alexander-Arnold. That's 2-2. Aided by deflection. Trent just hits it. Takes a bit of a chance. Skims past Martinez and Liverpool are back on level terms. Well, don't forget, we want to hear your thoughts here on Walk On. Any questions or queries, send your voice notes in to walkonattheathletic.com. That's walkonattheathletic.com. Anyway, after all that, after the dust has settled, they're eight points clear at the top of the Premier League. Eight points? I mean, that's...

That's great. We've talked about it many times, James, you know, that the title races against Manchester City have kind of warped the mindset of us all because, you know, you couldn't afford to make any sort of slip up

And this is more like a title race without a state-owned entity in the league. A throwback. Yeah, yeah. Like a real title race when football was competitive. And one defeat all season in the Premier League. And still, obviously, that means we're still picking up points. So I think it'd be wrong to be too negative despite two draws in three games.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think you're right. Sometimes you do have to take a step back and just appreciate the bigger picture, which is Liverpool are 22 league games unbeaten, which is a remarkable feat in Slot's first season overall.

in charge. And yeah, I just don't, you know, we'll see whether Arsenal can crank up the pressure a little bit. You know, you'd probably expect them, wouldn't you, to beat West Ham on Saturday and reduce that gap to five points. But, you know, can they really put together the kind of run that's going to

this this gonna have them kind of absolutely all over Liverpool at the the top end I'm I'm not convinced and then they go to Forest next Wednesday which you know I think I think that's a that's a big game because I think regardless of how Liverpool get on at the Etihad you know I'd be really surprised if if Arsenal went to the city ground and and won you know we saw you know earlier on this season when Liverpool went there out what a tough place it is and

And what a good job Nuno has done there. So, yeah, it's still a great position to be in. And like I said, I actually, although the frustration of only getting a point, I just thought there was a lot to admire about that performance performance.

And let's not forget, yeah, going to the Etihad where Liverpool haven't won in the Premier League for nearly a decade, but they're facing a very, very wounded Man City side, having had a very chastening night on Wednesday night in the Burnabout. Yes, I mean, my instinct here is there's only one team that can stop Liverpool winning the league. Liverpool. What are your thoughts on that?

Well, I said at the beginning, you know, context is everything. Oh, so we're back to years. I was waiting for this. I wanted to draw back to prove that I wasn't being a no at all, basically. But there's, you know, it's easy to forget actually, Liverpool are in a position at the moment in the league that they haven't really been in, even in the Klopp era. You know, when they were sort of fighting for the title with Man City,

they were always like a couple of points behind city maybe a couple of points above them

come sort of the latter stages of the season. But it always felt like it was neck and neck. Except, of course, for the Asterix season. Well, that's what I was leading to. Where they'd won the league before COVID hit. Exactly. So on that season, they'd built up such a head of steam that they were miles ahead and it just never felt... Even when they lost to Watford, it was like, what? They've lost 3-0 to Watford? How's that happened?

Oh, but we're still 23 points ahead at the top of the table. So obviously this season, they've got like, I wouldn't say a comfortable margin, but they've got a bigger margin than they've had. But it's not as big as in the COVID season when they did win the league. So it's a slightly strange position to be in. You know, for everybody, you know, something quite new for everyone to get used to, whereby, you know, I think both teams at the top of the league, I agree, I think it's only Arsenal that can stop them.

have flaws. Liverpool had to be absolutely brilliant to get above City. It was a flawless team, I would say, in the end. That sort of 2019 period. They were a great side, Liverpool. I don't think this team is, if I'm being honest, is anywhere near the quality of that team yet. It might prove to be, but as we discussed in the previous podcast, it seems like there's going to be quite a lot of changes for that to

for that possibility to happen.

I think for everybody, whether it's the players you played in those previous teams or whether it's the fans who are watching or even, you know, suppose the journalists who are reporting on it, they're in a position now that hasn't really happened. Meanwhile, you've just got to remember what you're up against. It's like Arsenal do not have a centre forward. They only got through Leicester City late by throwing a guy who's played his whole career centre mid to win them the game.

Over the course of three more months in a Premier League campaign when you're trying to go for the title, I just don't think that's a sustainable thing to do. So, yes, it was disappointing to finish the game against Villa the way they did, but...

I think a point is another point in the right direction, really, for Liverpool. Who knows? I mean, they could go to City and it could be another disappointing afternoon. But I still don't think that that would necessarily mean, oh, the whole, everything, you know, is falling away. And, you know, there's been this amazing collapse because I think there'll be a few more twists and turns based on what the other team, you know, Arsenal in this question do. I think everyone's going to lose or drop points.

James, I think one of the interesting things is if it is tiredness and if it is nerves and it could be a combination of both, I think it probably is. There's two more games in February and then there's a low key March where there's even a weekend's off.

Remarkably. So there you can reset in terms of your physicality, you can reset in terms of your mentality. And then the final push in the final two months, I think if you're sitting pretty, which I think we are now.

I'm very optimistic. In fact, no, I'm not just pretty optimistic. I'm extremely optimistic. You don't blow a lead like this. No, I agree with you. I share that optimism. I think you just need... That's why these next two are so big, because it has been such an energy-sapping period.

I think a bit of physical and mental fatigue with what's at stake is inevitable. I thought it was funny listening to Slott actually ahead of the Villa game. He was asked about, can you draw on the experience of your senior players in the dressing room who have won the Premier League title here previously? And to be picking up on what Simon said, Slott made the point which I thought was a fair one. He said, well, it's a bit different because when you're 25 points clear,

there's not a huge amount of pressure that you're playing with. When you think back to that title winning season in 1920, the concern wasn't ever Liverpool being caught. It was, is Kevin Brady going to get her own way and have this season declared null and void? Because it was only the global pandemic that could have stopped Liverpool. So it is different. But yeah, I think...

So that's why I can kind of understand, we were talking about slot substitutions and all the rest of it, I can understand why he has got the next one in his head because of the way things are at the minute. And of course, defensively, there's a few injury issues there, sad to see Conor Bradley limp off.

Again, at Villa, Joe Gomez has now undergone surgery. And if he does play again this season, it will be right at the back end of the season. So he has got to be careful in terms of his resources and using them wisely. And then City away on Sunday, Newcastle at home next Wednesday. And then he can reset, can't he? I think there's a 10-day gap then after the Newcastle game before they face Southampton at home.

And then you've got the

the focus will start to shift back to the Champions League. Of course, Liverpool will find out on Friday whether it's PSG or Benfica in the last 16 of that. But yeah, March is completely different, isn't it? I think even with the two Champions League games, the Carabao Cup final and that game against Southampton, only four games in all competitions in March. So that is just so important to get through these next two.

And then, of course, once you get the Etihad game out of the way, seven of Liverpool's last 11 in the league are at Anfield. Yeah, and it leaves them in a relatively good place. At New Balance, we believe if you run, you're a runner, however you choose to do it. Because when you're not worried about doing things the right way, you're free to discover your way.

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Well, let's talk about Manchester City. Um...

I had two screens on. I was in two-screen mode last night and one eye on City. Very modern man, Tony. Oh, well, when I was working at the Times on big Champions League nights, I'd have four or five up on my computer. Did you have one just showing the XG? Yeah. Going up and down. Yeah, yeah. But, no, City looked very poor.

We've talked about how imposing they've been over the years. We all know the reasons why. Whether the 115 charges stick or not, it's because they've had huge amounts of expenditure which other clubs don't have access to. But they seem to be in a proper funk at the moment. They do, they do.

The only thing that worries me a little bit is, and this is a stat from Andy Jones, who obviously hasn't appeared on the pod for a while, but he made a good point, I thought, on social media last night, that Liverpool only kept three clean sheets in the last 13 matches. And ahead of City, that's still a thing that sort of worries you, because...

I know Haaland didn't play last night or he was on the bench, but they could still find a way to score, particularly against a Liverpool team that's not defending particularly well. So the point is, I just think Liverpool need to really get back to what they were at the start of the season. I thought some of the defending for the goals against Villiers wasn't very good as well. Absolutely awful. Especially when you've got two chances to head the ball clear. Yeah, yeah.

So, again, it's a question of what Liverpool do against City, I think, really. Having gone out of the Champions League, the position they are in the league, they've obviously spent a lot of money again in January. But I think it sort of shows where City are at, really, because in the past, Guardiola has given players time to bed in. The way they play football is...

is quite unique really. And they've been at their very best. They've been unbelievable, haven't they? But I think the sort of players and the age profile of the players and where they're signing from, ordinarily they get a bit of time to bed into the system and the training methods and everything else, but he's had to throw them all in. There's only really Mahmoud Moush, obviously, who scored a hat-trick at the weekend, who's a senior player really, who should be expected to go in and have an impact given his age and his experience.

you know, some of the others I'm just not quite sure about at the moment. So it's a massive opportunity for Liverpool, I think. You know, despite City having all of the success that they've had, they'll still be determined. Certainly the fan base at the Etihad would like to put a dent in Liverpool's title hope. So I think it's...

I still think it's going to be a tough game. But if Liverpool can play with the same sort of authority that they did in part of the Villa game, I'd still fancy them. I just would fancy them. The key really is, I think as well, is the midfield. We haven't discussed this really, is Gravenberg obviously does look a bit leggy at the moment. What slot does there will be interesting, I think, at the weekend. Yeah, yeah. I...

I would have thought, never mind all the statistics and going into the red zone, it's Manchester City, given our relationship with them over the past decades, I would have thought this is one to pour everything into, to go there knowing that they're in this trough, notwithstanding the Newcastle result where they won, but knowing that they're not at their best, that they've got injuries involved,

I'm really going to put your foot on the throat. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think it's not a game to hold anyone back for anything else, is it? It is remarkable when you look at it to see Liverpool 17 points better off than City. Nobody expected this kind of implosion that we've seen at the Etihad match.

this season. And I just think if Liverpool go there and play with the energy and the intensity and the dynamism that they're capable of and what they played with in spells at Villa Park, then I just think they'll have too much for City. I think Slot spoke today about, you know, he said when you play against a team like City, you have to be prepared to suffer. He said because of how good they can be in possession. And I think he's right. But I also think

When Liverpool are in possession, they can hurt City. When I've watched City this season, it has reminded me of when Liverpool fell to pieces under Klopp, when the midfield just completely disintegrated, didn't it? With the former Fabinho and Henderson falling off a cliff. Because City have been just so easy to play through.

And of course, they've tried to combat that a little bit with the business they did. And obviously losing Rodri was a huge loss to them. But they just don't seem to have that ability to control games like they did. But in saying that, they still pack a punch going forward. And Liverpool are going to have to defend better than they did at Villa. Because I think that was the other thing that struck me driving back up last night was so much focus on that Nunes miss. It almost enables some of those. You think,

we shouldn't overlook the fact that Liverpool were found wanting defensively. Both goals so avoidable. The first one, a simple free kick into the box. I think it was Canate makes a mess of the first header and then Mings is able to flick on. The second one's a Bosley. His attempt to

Had a clearance drop straight to Tielemans. And then the second one's arguably even worse, where I think you look at it and you've got three or four players all drawn towards the ball. And, you know, Luca Dean has got, you know, all the time in the world he wants to pick out Watkins in the middle.

So, you know, there were other moments as well when it was, you know, you had the Alisson rush of blood when he came out a couple of tight offside calls. So, yeah, that has to improve on Sunday as well. You know, because what you don't want to do against a team that's wounded and vulnerable like City is

is give them some kind of encouragement. And if Liverpool defend like they did at Villa Park, they will give them encouragement. Si, James just alluded to when the wheels fell off Liverpool a couple of years ago and the midfield got old all of a sudden and...

And I think there was an element of Klopp. We know he was worn out by it all. I mean, do you see parallels with City as well? Because, I mean, Guardiola looks like a man who, he signed a new contract. Well, what he should have done is taken him to the sabbatical, by the look of him to me.

Yeah, so he arrived at City in 2016, didn't he? Summer of 2016. So he's been there a long time. He's a really long-serving manager. He's spent longer at City than he did of any of his previous clubs, including Barcelona. Obviously, he walked out of Barcelona because he's had this issue before, feeling jaded and tired. He's a manager who seems to me to be devoted to his job.

an obsessive and a chosen in the way that City play and never stops thinking about the game. So to me, I mean, certainly stages earlier on this season where he just looked exhausted to me. You could see it physically on him. So he might get paid all the money in the world. He might have the best players to work with, but I'm not saying it's as stressful as other jobs, but it still has its unique pressures and

which, and keeping a team at the top of the league, it might, obviously when you've got the resources of City and the players, it's easier, but it's not as easy to do with the style that they've done it with, you know, over a long period of time. So, you know, he's a great football manager, but, you know, you are seeing, I agree with James, it does feel similar to Klopp, you know, he's, he's,

increasingly odd behaviour with the media as well. He's sort of seeing a different side with them. That was a feature of Klopp, you know, just physically and visibly looking tired. So, you know, I'm not sure whether the recruitment they've done in January puts them in a great position for the summer as well. I don't know whether really the players that they brought in, of the quality that they had before,

replacing players like De Bruyne, potentially Bernardo Silva. Obviously, Kyle Walker's already gone. I think the goalkeeper, I mean, both goalkeepers look done to me. These are key positions, big players. So there's a lot of work to be done there.

I wonder whether he'll think that there's a difference between managing a team and trying to get results while also changing it. That's a big task. It's a big, big task because you might buy players, but none of those players, they'd be sort of ready for what they need to achieve at Man City, but he has to work on them over and over again off the training ground to get them to a level and an understanding that he wants. So,

You know, there's a lot of work to do at City. I wonder whether, you know, given that he signed that contract, you know, whether it would be up to City to make that decision rather than himself to some extent. Would anybody be bold enough to say to Pep Guardiola, look, but then again, it's what's available, what comes next? You know, who takes over from him? Who is the natural replacement for Pep Guardiola? I mean, I think there's a bit of a...

There's no... I mean, Liverpool obviously, it would seem, have got it right on the slot, but there's no...

No person that I can think of. Yeah, there's no one I think. They've got to go for him. Yeah. Well, I mean, I suspect what will happen, because it often happens in these sorts of situations, because Klopp signs a new contract and then it's all become too much. And that's where I suspect it will happen at City. And, you know, I mean, no one relishes seeing someone like, well, either Jürgen or Guardiola,

reaching that point where they need to walk away from the game for a while. But yeah, I can see it happening. James, what do you think we're going to see in terms of the team and tactics at the Etihad?

I think the setup will probably hinge a fair bit on whether Cody Gagpo's pass fit or not. Slott said he hopes to have him back available, but he said he hadn't trained with the team. He said he hoped that today, Thursday, would be his first day back with them. And I think that would be big. I think if Gagpo's fit...

I think he'll start on the left and then I think that means that Luis Diaz will come back into the team as the central attacker, probably most likely with obviously Salah right. I think, I just wonder whether with Jota, you know, I think the other night at Villa was the first time he started back to back with

Premier League games since October. And again, with slot talking about, you know, needing to kind of manage his game time, you wonder whether he might want to hold Jota back a little bit. Of course, if Gapos not fit or if he's only fit enough for the bench, then I think we'll see Diaz left.

and then Jota through the middle. I've seen some people say that you should throw Darwin in, give him the opportunity to make amends, but I'm just... Throw him in where? To Mersey? That's a bit harsh. I think they meant the starting line-up at the Etihad, but trust is such a big thing, isn't it, between a player and a manager, and I just don't think...

He has got slot's trust. I don't think slot doesn't know what he's going to get from him. And especially when you've got a manager publicly criticising someone's work ethic. I think it would be a surprise to see him in the line-up. I think midfield would be an interesting one because...

I agree with Simon I thought and it feels like you're nitpicking a little bit but Gravenberg has been like nine out of ten like 25 30 games consecutively or whatever but I do think that Goodison and against Wolves and again at Villa just creaking a little bit which again is probably not a surprise for someone so young who has played so much football this season um

You know, McAllister as well took an absolute pounding. He seemed to be, seemed to spend most of the first half lying on the grass at Villa Park, wincing in pain. What's he done to Villa to make them so angry? So I thought one of the big pluses actually on the night was Curtis Jones. I thought he was one of Liverpool's best players ever.

Villa. So I think that's a little bit of a dilemma. Obviously one of the four in midfield will miss out. I think he just again he talked up Zabozlai's athleticism and work ethic and especially when he talks about I think when he said that quote today about needing to suffer

I just think I'd be amazed if he left out Zboszla just because I think he loves what he gives you out of possession in terms of hassling and harrying and forcing mistakes and especially, you know, with the way that City try and build from the back. So, yeah, it'd be interesting to see who misses out in midfield. But I think, yeah, the rest of the team,

pretty much picks itself, doesn't it? I think, you know, Trent clearly wasn't too pleased about being hauled off at Villa Park, but that was with one eye on starting at the Etihad. And of course, you know, with Bradley's injury, you know, that's not even a decision for the manager now. And so I think

I mean, we haven't done very well at the Etihad in the past decades. I mean, 1-4-1 there, you know, 10 years ago. And then the Champions League quarterfinal, 2-1, which in the first half, they could have been blown away. We went there with a 3-0 lead. And in the first half, it was like, oh, we might be going out here. But...

That game, Tony, was ridiculous, wasn't it? That was a great night. Talking about suffering, that was... Liverpool were like... It was like being placed under a grill and seeing how long they could... I mean, they had a bit of luck in Thie as well. I mean, I think Avar being in place, they may have got one or two penalties conceded as well. Didn't they get a goal disallowed straight at the Aswell City? Didn't they? Was it a bit of an odd offside?

I'm sure there was one. Yeah, and Pep got sent off at half time. Because we all went down to the press room and no one had seen him getting sent off. It was like, yeah. That was it, yeah. Well, we hadn't gone down to the press room, Tony, because we were stuck up in the gods because...

Do you remember Manchester City press office didn't put us in the press box that game, James? We were right at the back. I was allowed in the main bit that night. Oh, were you? You must have been on the blacklist. They even let me in the main bit.

I was right at the back surrounded by big City fans right at the back of the stands so they would all sort of hanging over you watching what you were typing so it was I think it made it I think that story made it into one of the columns of a national newspaper as well yeah it's a

That was when, you know, Liverpool were on the way up and challenging City and City were, you know, really, really good. I mean, I would argue that, strangely, you know, that the best game between the two teams was the one that City edged Liverpool out. You know, the 2-1, which ended up sending the title towards City. Was that the one with the goal line clearance? Oh, I mean, that was an unbelievable game for Fulbola. I mean, I know Liverpool lost the game.

You take your Liverpool hat off, but Liverpool could have won the game. Neither team deserved to lose the game. It was just the level of quality in that game was unbelievable. I mean, for my money, it was probably arguably one of the... I think it was the greatest game of Premier League football that I've ever seen. That includes all the Arsenal-Manchester United periods, when you throw Chelsea into the mix. The two teams just going at it 100%. Aggressive, quick...

technical ability great defending add everything to that game it was so good I don't think it'll be anywhere near that level on Sunday but we don't want it to be anywhere near that level what we'd like is City show a complete lack of technical ability and a complete lack of flair and Liverpool flew three goals early on and then shut up shop

We need the Man City of 1995-96, don't we, basically. I'll tell you what I'd like to see. I'd like to see someone step up and ease the burden on Mo Salah. I don't think that game after game, week after week, you can... I know his feats at the moment are almost superhuman, aren't they? The numbers are off the scale. 29 goals, 20 assists in all competitions and we're still in February. But...

The other ones up top have to start chipping in. Without a doubt. Because you cannot just keep on looking at him. I mean, I looked before and he's got 24 Premier League goals and the other five senior Liverpool attackers have got 26 between them.

So it's, you know, and I think whatever happens in the next few months, clearly there's going to have to be a shake-up in that department come the summer. Because, you know, he doesn't fancy Chiesa at the moment, does he? That kind of limits the options that he's got up there with Chiesa playing so little football. Who's that? LAUGHTER

This Italian fella. Got a game at Plymouth. But so yeah, it's, you know, Salah's record against City is unbelievable, isn't it? Because he's just, he's the man for the big occasion. He always delivers, doesn't he? But I think

Yeah, it's about time that people started easing the responsibility on his shoulders because, you know, there will be days when he just can't keep on doing what he's doing at the minute. Yeah, and well, City have always had a problem chasing Salah, which incidentally is the title of a book that Simon Hughes has written, available in all good bookshops now. So that's it from Walk On, your Liverpool podcast brought to you by The Athletic.

Thanks to James and Simon for joining me and you for listening. We'll be back on Tuesday. Stay calm, people. Stay calm. We'll catch you then. The Athletic FC Podcast Network.