The worst performance under Ange?
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The Athletic FC Podcast Network. Hello, everybody, and welcome once again to The View from the Lane, the multi-award winning top and Oscar podcast from The Athletic. And joining me on Not So Genial host today, Danny Kelly, are The Athletic's James Moore and Jay Harris.

I suppose if you judge it from away performance to away performance, a stark contrast at Bournemouth last night to what happened in Manchester 10 or so days ago. But let's make Manchester the outlier for now. And James, you asked the question in social media last night, where does this rank in bad Ange performances? What's the answer to your own question? I mean, it's got to be right up or down.

down there hasn't it I mean I can't I can't think of too many matches to see at this season or last where the team were just so bereft of any kind of structure or creative ideas or for a big chunk of the second half kind of defensive solidity that there's just very very little you could come away from that game with and say we can cling to this that you know I don't actually think any one player played especially terribly but

I don't think there's anyone there who was like so so bad I mean look we talked at the time about that Palace away game I think it was very similar to that actually Jay wrote last night started kind of okay conceded quite sloppy goal at the first sign of trouble then never really kind of regained their composure and

if anything, the scoreline flattered Spurs, not the other way around. Didn't really ever have any kind of ideas or sense of being able to change the game or stem the tide or whatever else. Very similar to that. Whether or not you want to say this is worse than that may be a different question. Obviously, as we've said a few times recently, there is the mitigation of the injuries, which is valid, but at the same time, I would suggest that

the team that was out on the pitch last night should be able to compete in a Premier League game against Bournemouth. I'm not trying to be funny here. I wouldn't even call it a team. I'd say that was a Spurs 11th.

Because no part of what those 11 people and eventually 12, 13, 14, 15 people did could be construed as a team. They weren't a team. They were 11 individuals running around in light blue Spurs shirts. I'll get on to what I thought about that in a minute. Jay, you were there. Long old journey for the Spurs fans. Not Timbuktu, I get it. Pretty terrible night as well. What did you make of the performance? The first 10, 15 minutes I thought were...

pretty decent if I'm being really honest before we get into the nuts and bolts of what went wrong and I know Hoysen scored but he looked quite rash in his first couple of interactions in a game you know Solanke has that shot which goes over the bar and Hoysen sort of dives in and you know on another day who knows what happens in that incident and I thought in the first 45 minutes in particular so even after Bournemouth score I thought Dogi dealt with Semenya really well and

So, there were signs of encouragement, but the thing that really stood out to me in the first 45 minutes was, obviously, Brendan Johnson was not comfortable playing left wing. I don't remember any time where he tried to run past Adam Smith. And with the greatest respect to Adam Smith, I'm going to double check his age, but I feel like he's 36 years old.

years old. I mean, Adam Smith, the economist and philosopher is coming up, so I probably should have tapped in. At about the same age, yeah. He is 33 years old. So Brennan Johnson should be looking at a 33-year-old experienced fullback and thinking, I'm going to try and take this guy on, and he didn't. But what didn't help the situation is that Kulosevsky also kept drifting over to the left. So there are quite a few times where Brennan Johnson, Solanke, Kulosevsky, Madison are all probably within

five, ten metres of each other. And on the other side of the pitch, on the right, there's absolutely nobody there. So you're not really stretching Bournemouth in any way. You're just being contained. And then the second that goal goes in, confidence is dented. Players start trying to probably do a little bit too much on the ball, Basuma's an example of that. And then they make mistakes trying to compensate. And Bournemouth were just...

it was the perfect situation for them. You know, they can just, I'm not saying they sat deep because they didn't do that, but the space opened up for Spurs on the count, for them to hit Spurs on the counter because Spurs have to push more players forward in search of an equaliser. The equaliser's not coming. And yeah, it probably should have been 3-0 because Evan Ilsen, Tavernier and Kluivert in particular all missed the

great opportunity. So there was very little to take away from that game where you think that was positive. Jay, you say that confidence disappeared. There's a reason for that, isn't there? Obviously, people are watching on different platforms. Maybe you heard this stat, but I'll repeat it. It was astonishing to me. So including last night, in the last 15 away games where the opposition have scored at all, regardless of the time,

Spurs have won precisely none of those games. They have got five points from, I think, the 48 points available. If they concede at all away from home, that's it, game up. Yeah, I mean, that's pretty damning. And like you said, the City and United victories were incredible, but it probably masked and papered over the cracks of what the reality is. And as you've just put it so clearly, Spurs have lost eight of their last 12 away games. It's not...

a record that's going to get you into the top six, let alone the top four. So it's an issue which needs to be addressed. But Postakoglu said after the game last night and reiterated this morning that the issues that caused them to lose the game last night, specifically the situation around the goal, he said it's not a one-off, it's happened three or four times, so we've got to work out why that keeps happening. And just on that, my perspective is if you keep making the same mistakes...

Basically, one of two things is happening. Either your message is not getting through to the players and they're not taking it in, or fundamentally what you're trying to do is wrong. And I guess that's what possibly needs to work out very quickly. Do I need to change something when we play away? Or for whatever reason, are the players just not listening to me or they're not being receptive to my instructions enough? And that's a tricky conundrum. Or they're not good enough to...

carry out what he's asking but then I guess you're subsequent to that you would say then you need to ask him something different I guess yeah all that and that's probably a good point because you know injuries are a massive mitigating factor at the moment but um

I know this goal didn't count, but Forster playing that ball to Kulishevski, etc., just landing the team in trouble. Even the fact that Kulishevski has been exceptional in central midfield this season, the last two games he's ended up right wing and played up front at some stages of it. It's just a bit of a mess.

I mean, he did play on the right at Man City and obviously it worked incredibly well in that game. So I'm not necessarily entirely sold on the suggestion that Kulishevsky now not being in midfield is suddenly like the biggest issue. But at the same time, I guess I do miss him in the middle. So there is that. Just to go back to that set piece thing. And I tweeted about this last night and some people were not incorrectly telling me

the way Spurs defend set pieces isn't the biggest problem here, either kind of tactically or in terms of what's going wrong at the club as a whole. And yeah, that is true. But when you've got however many players it is missing, eight players suspended or injured or ill, and you're up against it, like those kind of finer margins, those marginal gains, to use a terrible phrase, really come into play. And being able to defend set pieces well, being able to defend well full stop,

like is a huge thing and if Spurs have defended that one set piece well I mean this is obvious this is you know barely worth saying because it's obvious if Spurs have defended that set piece well and kind of come up with something clever from one at the other end and scored they may have won that game 1-0 and we'd be on this podcast now saying god they really got away with one there didn't they but they've won the game and does that change the narrative and does that give them more confidence next time they're in a game when they're up against it but now every single time

Spurs are in a game and they're not playing well. I think the Spurs really, really lack belief because they know they're not playing well and they know they don't win games when they're not playing well. And those margins, not being able to score from a set piece, not really being able to kind of create a goal out of anywhere. And this is the thing that J.I. and Jack have talked about a couple of times in the last week or so. And I know other people are talking about it as well. The technical level of this team, like man for man,

compared to just compared to the two teams Spurs have just played against just compared to Fulham and Bournemouth is pretty low actually yeah like these aren't players who can you know do a trick or like pick an incredible pass or unlock a deep defence not often at least and that is the thing that Spurs really that's that's that's why Spurs can't win games when they're not playing well I think I think that's the key thing there's a combination of set pieces and like a lack of kind of ingenuity and

Meaning that Spurs won't win a game like that? Well, look, we can talk about the other things that happened. I mean, I wasn't against the leaving out of Son. He probably needs arrested as best they can. Actually, that is one thing we should mention. That Son, at one point in the second half, was playing centre mid. Now, you guys will have a better knowledge if you've ever seen that before, but I thought that was utterly bizarre. And...

At that point in the game, my perspective was you've thrown on Bergvall, you've thrown on Son, Werner, etc. There was basically no defensive mid at that point. I think Bergvall was the deepest lying central midfielder. So you've got, in theory, all this firepower attacking talent on the pitch.

But if the system is not working against that particular opposition, it doesn't really matter which players you put on. You're still going to experience the exact same issues. And that's what it felt like. You know, let's throw on all these attacking players and hope for the best. When actually what happened was I think Madison had one chance, which he probably should have scored or at least got on target.

But then apart from that, after Postakovic made those changes, I remember Dango Watarra probably went through for about three one-on-ones and somehow missed them all. Bar that said, Peter, don't be exposed to Fender horribly before Davis went off.

Clearly there was quite a big issue when Gray's come in at centre-back and that isn't a criticism of him, obviously. He's an 18-year-old, 19-year-old maybe now, central midfielder who's mostly played at full-back. We're not criticising him for that. But clearly the players around him also didn't react brilliantly to that and it's incredibly unsettled basically for the rest of the game really, however long that was, 25 minutes, half an hour. The thing that really I was surprised about, and I agree with you, Danny, Son not starting kind of seems fair enough and, you know...

We've mentioned the fatigue. I mean, you do need to rotate the players. You've got to pick your battles a bit. I mean, it's not like he played brilliantly in the last couple of games, so be it. But having said Brendan Johnson only really does that one thing coming in from the right, you then kind of end up with Johnson on the left of quite a lot of the game where he can't do the thing. You've got Gelesewski now playing on the right where he can do stuff, but...

I mean, I'm quite a bit critical of Timo Werner, but I just think, one, Timo Werner played much better on Sunday than Son did. And two, he'd just be a better fit for avoiding having to change loads of the other players around and kind of unsettle the system as it is from the start of the game last night. I was just surprised that...

He didn't start that game. He just felt like kind of the obvious thing. I was surprised. Well, I put it another way. I was surprised that Johnson started on the left. And my criticism of his invisibility is slightly tempered by the fact that that's not a position that we've seen him play very well in over the years. And if he was doing it for the team, because they had no alternatives, but they did have at least one alternative, they chose not to take it. Now, look,

There will be people pulling their hair out listening to us because, of course, the problem with these kind of defeats, and at the moment I'm inclined to take the Manchester City result as the outlier and say that we are in pretty desperate form, particularly away from home.

Indeed, we can take it further back if you want. I don't want to be negative, but you've got to be truthful. Well, statistically, the fact is we lose to Chelsea. Since the famous Chelsea game with nine men, we will then suddenly post a call that we would have lost as many as he's won in the Premier League if they lose at the weekend. The problem with these big defeats, by big I don't mean 9-0, I mean psychologically big defeats, is they force people across a watershed to

Some people want to blame the manager. Oh, sack the manager. Some people say, no, that's not the point. It's the board and Daniel Levy and his gang have not supported the manager after manager after manager. It could be that both things are true. But for a club as rich as Spurs, we have not got a squad that the finances would dictate you might have. And maybe the manager is not doing the right things. Both things are possible to be true at the same time.

You were there, Jay. Now, of course, the mainstream media are going to make a huge deal out of the confrontation, if that's the right word, between the Postacoglu and the fans at the end. Could you see what was happening there? Or had you already retired to the comfort of the free food and drink? No, no, no. I was there. I think it's really important to contextualise what happened. So basically, a few of the players went over.

And I actually took a photo. From what I can see, there were six players. So Poro, Maddison, Dragosin, Johnson, Bergvall and Solanke, I think, who've gone over to the fans, applauded them and sort of had a bit of an awkward staring match for 30 seconds to a minute. And I think they were sort of in that moment, staring.

soaking up the frustration of the fans and sort of acknowledging that they were feeling disgruntled. And Postakoglu was maybe 20 yards further back from the players, sort of watching on. And I can't say this with certainty, but I don't think he intended to walk over to the fans. And so he then does when he gets a sense that some fans are unhappy, goes over and

Obviously, there are videos doing the rounds, etc., where people are calling him all sorts, etc. But he just said they gave me some pretty direct feedback. I think he felt like it was important that he acknowledged that he was listening to them. He's not revealed to anybody or certainly not revealed publicly what that direct feedback was. The one I've been watching on social media, some wiseacre had worked out the phrase, you

and was just shouting at the top of his voice over and over again, occasionally interspersed with an Anglo-Saxon epithet as well. It was like a Stuart Leibit, wasn't it? He was just repeating the joke over and over again. Exactly. It gradually became less funny, but then it got more funny again. Of course, it goes through that beautiful arc that Stuart does. And I couldn't... I mean, I don't know. It's up to interpretation when...

Pastor Caldwell started pointing to himself. He put his right hand to his chest. Was he saying, are you talking about me? Or was he saying, it's on me? That's why I couldn't quite work out. So we sort of asked him that earlier. And I think he clarified... I should make the point, you've just come hot foot from the press conference. I went from Bournemouth to the press conference, back home. They've been clocking up the air miles. What a pro. What a pro. So he clarified that he was basically saying...

it's on me and I want you to sort of direct your frustration at me and he was also asked when you go through difficult spells do

Do you talk to people for advice? Do you speak to your coaching staff for advice? And he said, no, it's on me. It's my responsibility. I'm not going to palm off that responsibility to anybody else. So you can definitely interpret that pointing gesture. Just checking my phone, Jake. No, he hasn't rung me to get any advice, no. He told me he was going to ring you at 10 p.m., so stay out for that. Well, I'll be here, man. Don't worry about that. Might be past your bedtime, but...

Oh, no. Test cricket on? Myself and Jack will be up till five in the morning watching the test, of course. But yeah, so him pointing is his way of saying, it's my responsibility, it's on me. And, you know, earlier he said...

someone asked him what's your message to the fan and he said no you know there's no message to the fans but I'm going to fight to make sure we bring success to this football club nothing really changes whether there's doubt internally or externally it just makes my resolve even stronger to get it right yeah just one more thing about that at the instant at the end of the game am I creating drama or did I imagine it

The player who comes across to the manager, walks across the pitch to make sure that he's okay. Was it Jed Spence of all people? You know what? I'm glad you reminded me about this because... The irony. The irony. The fucking irony. I'm glad you pointed this out because to me, it did make the situation slightly comical that in that moment where the manager is getting grief from the fans...

the one player who has backed him up. And it was probably just coincidence that Spence happened to be there at the time. Well, he walked across the pitch to do it. And I agree. He was already over there in the general area. But it is just bizarre, a bizarre image that Spence, who's barely played, who, you know, Posse Coglu said the other day has not had a major turnaround at this club, was the one sort of trying to, I think he pats him on his back as they turn off and walk together. It was odd. Yeah.

Where was Reguillon when all this was going on? Yeah, where was Reggie? They could have lifted him up between the two of them and carried him off the pitch. Well, don't laugh because Spence, Reguillon and Postacoglu make me the back three against Chelsea. They need to pal up, don't they? They need to learn to play in a line. Yeah.

So what else did he have to say at the press conference, Jay? Now, look, because what you just quoted to us there, which I'm sure you've taken down verbatim, this is the standard managers under a bit of scrutiny stuff, isn't it? I will work my hardest. I'm not interested in what the fans think. I'm not interested in the end of match scuffles. Not quite, really. I'm only here to work. Although I do note that...

Two Premier League managers this week have put up the human shield of, I was first in and I was last out. But guys, if you're working 20 hours a day and what I see happening at West Ham and Wolves, then I would suggest you take a day off and see if that works because just piling in work into something that's no good is a waste of human endeavour. Sorry, what else did you have to say at the press conference? So to give him credit,

I don't think he looks for excuses. And as you've just mentioned, there are other managers in the league who are the first sign of trouble. We'll start slinging excuses all over the place to sort of say salvage their own reputation. But someone asked him that Tottenham spent a lot of money on teenagers and it was Ali Gold. And he sort of totted it up that you're looking at maybe £100 million on teenagers when you factor in Archie Gray, Yamin Hyuk.

Lucas Bergvall, Wilson Odebrecht and that's great long term but does it make it difficult for Postacoglu in the short term and he said it's still the right decision to sign those players because they're the right decisions for the football club and I thought that's quite refreshing that he's sort of prepared to put

I guess it's what every manager should do, but the reality is not quite the case. But he's saying, you know, the club always comes first. I'm never going to make a decision just to save my own skin if it's going to be detrimental to the club. Surely that's a good thing that fans want to hear. And the example he gave was, if I was worried about my own existence, I would have fought tooth and nail to block Harry Kane leaving. But it wasn't the right decision for the club because he was in the last year of his contract. The follow-up question was then, you know, you've lost a lot of experience in

Dier, Lloris, Kane, even players like Lo Celso, Neveson, Real, the experienced internationals, Pierre-Emile Hoiberg. And again, he was asked, you know, sort of how do you cope with losing that experience? Was that the right decision? And he said, we had to do that. We had to replace players at the end of the cycle. We could have replaced 28-year-olds with 28-year-olds, but that's not really a rebuild. We needed to start from the ground up. So I almost thought fair play to Bostacoglu because he's

He is looking long-term. He's not scrambling around for excuses because he could have said, oh, my first-choice goalkeeper is out. My two first-choice centre-backs are out. One of my holding fielders is out. But actually he said, when everybody is fit, the squad is better than it was last year. It's just I've been dealt a difficult hand at the moment with injuries and suspensions, etc. But I'm just going to crack on and find a way through it. Do you want to add any more about this game, James? Because I kind of want to put it in the rearview mirror, partially because...

I think analysis of it is almost not pointless. That's not fair on the, on the, on the people who listen and subscribe and download the podcast, but it's so similar to some other recent defeats. We kind of know, um, where the problems lie, but, uh, I'll leave you with the last word about it. Cause you would want to pose the question. How about, well, right. And then Jay, you can have the ultra last word about it. Yeah. I found it incredibly dispiriting. The whole thing. It, it,

It was an evening that really gave a sense that this team, this club, haven't made the progress that maybe we thought they had made last season. And had it not been for a very, very good start that maybe last season would have felt and been very different. But actually, I mean, having kind of read some of the quotes in this press conference today, obviously I wasn't in the room, but there's like some quite sort of sensible stuff from Postacoglu, actually. And I

I certainly don't think he is without fault. But I think he's actually a very level-headed bloke. And that is definitely what you need when things are going badly. I mean, you only have to think back to that Conte thing. And they were third in the Premier League. Sorry, if they'd won that game at Southampton, they would have been third in the Premier League. And he was losing his mind. Spurs are 10th now. And his guys had fans having a go at him in the ground. And then he's in a press conference saying all that. I just think...

I'd rather it be this way, I'd say. I mean, like I said, there are loads of things that I don't agree with. Like some of the substitutions, including last weekend, I thought were nuts. Some weird little things with team selection. I don't think the rotation has been right over the course of the season. I think I've said like the last four or five times you've been asking me to give a team that probably needed a rest and you've kind of got there in the end. But I mean, look, this is really damning him in faint praise, I guess. But there's just not anyone else I see out there that I think

get him in now and put him in charge and that'll fix it automatically it's not not like obviously there are other problems at the club than like way higher up than that there are other people culpable for like the problems that we see on and off the pitch obviously including the gem so i like i don't really see that changing the manager at this point is going to change anything not just because there's not anyone else but partly because of that

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Okay, welcome back everybody to The View from the Lane. James Moore, Jay Harris, myself, Danny Kelly in the chair. Some of your questions, they did flood in again. We'll get a handful on as we can. A quick one says Scott Crawford. Again, this is leading the witnesses. Have any players improved in the last 18 months? James, I'll start with you there because Jay's got the great get-out clause. I didn't study them so closely for the last 18 months.

Yeah, that is a really tough question. I mean, it's an interesting question and it feels like the answer should be quite informative. And to be frank, very few players there, you would say, have improved in that time. I guess you'd make the argument for Brennan Johnson on the basis of his kind of goal output. Yeah,

I don't know. Sarr kind of feels like he's been a bit up and down the whole way through. Kulisevski? Kulisevski, yeah. Kulisevski must be the one. Poro, has he improved? Otherwise, why are Real Madrid watching him? It's tough with Poro, isn't it? Because it felt like he started the season well, but he's dropped off in the last five or six weeks. Sure. I'm trying to take a more... I'm trying to take a more general, sanguine view of it. How about that? Yeah, of course. What else is new? Yeah, but I mean, fatigue of Poro, obviously a factor. So...

Those three or four, but not a vast number. See, Scott, the thing is, your question is very, very interesting. But to me, that's never the issue. My issue is, have the team improved in 18 months? They certainly have a higher ceiling,

But overall, I'm not sure that they have. Ginger Leo, we've already kind of referred to this, but the question is put here in a more direct. What was the phrase that Pastor Cogner used after that? What kind of feedback was he getting from the fans after the game? Well, here's some direct feedback there from Ginger Leo. What did Jed Spence do to make Ange hate him so much? Because it is odd. I mean, truthfully, once we're arresting Porrow,

I didn't expect great start at right-back when you've got an actual right-back in the squad fit, re-contracted and ready to go. But he must just think playing a midfielder at right-back is like a better fit for his system, right? In terms of like inverting and coming into midfield. And I suppose there is like logic there. You've got a midfielder who's played at right-back a lot. I can't kind of see why...

That might feel like a better option. And firstly, Spence was injured for a little bit of time. So that probably didn't help. Postacoglu signed Gray. He did not sign Spence. I know Spence has extended his contract, but maybe Postacoglu's worldview is thinking, which player is more likely to be an integral part of my long-term plans?

It's Gray and not Spence. Therefore, that's why he's in the Europa League squad and that's why he started last night and not Spence. And secondly, and obviously I have banged this drum, I've written about it. Yes, Gray prefers to play in central midfield, but he did make, I think, 47 appearances for Leeds in the... Maybe it was 44 appearances, actually, in the Championship for Leeds last season. And the vast majority were at right back. So I can understand why he's...

Maybe got more game time than Spence. And by the way, I want the Jed Spence redemption art to be a thing. You know, the first game I covered Spurs was the Hearts preseason friendly when Spence was involved. I thought this is a narrative I can get behind. I want it to happen. But the reality is the £40 million 18-year-old that Poster Cugley signed, Poster Cugley probably cares more about his development than the 23, 24-year-old wingback he inherited.

Look, he may also think that it's more likely to get results. I don't give a monkey about Gray's development at this stage. I want Spurs to win some football matches. And to be fair to Pastor Coldrew, he would try to be fair on this podcast, it's not just him. I noticed that Gray played it right back for England's younger team the other day as well.

This is from Lee in Cornwall, or somebody called Lee Cornwall, who knows? Given that the majority of the squad have now been handpicked for Ange Ball, which replacement manager, both available and not, would walk in and seamlessly continue with these players successfully? Well, that's a big question, isn't it? It is. If you want a manager who's going to be able to get the best out of, say,

a player like Brennan Johnson who is who is you know as Lee from Cornwall or Lee Cornwall suggests probably one of those players who has been handpicked for Angeville I would say those kind of managers are going to be few and far between and more or less whoever you bring in is going to want to do things slightly differently they're probably going to be looking for a different profile of fullback

maybe they would make it well Iporo or Dogi but maybe not maybe they're looking for someone like a little bit more sort of defensively resolute maybe they want more of a Emerson Royale type than Pedro Iporo Gasparini at Atalanta yeah that's good now look he is a player who plays attacking football gets the wingers in the strange places he clearly you know over the last 10 years um

Without winning a load of trophies, he's played some absolutely brilliant football. By the way, he's won more trophies than Spurs, by the way. He has. He would increase the age gap. Postacogru now, I think I'm right in saying, is the oldest manager in the Premier League. And Gasparini's older than him. I have to say, from inside my greenhouse, I don't give a monkey's about that either.

But there's an example of somebody they could go for. Whether he would want to leave what is currently the most exciting team in Europe is a whole other thing. Who were you going to say, Jay? So because the question is literally who could seamlessly continue with these players, this is a semi-serious answer. I can tell this is going to be rubbish. This is going to be so rubbish. But actually probably the correct answer in the situation is

is Peter Klamowski, who was Pastor Coghlu's assistant at Yokohama Marinos, Australia, Melbourne Victory. All right. Get the adverts on. This bloke's gone mad. He's gone nuts in front of us. That would have been fair to you, said Thomas Frank. I'm not saying that's the person if I was... I thought you said Mourinho. I'm not saying if I was the person in charge, that's the decision I would make. The question is...

Who could seamlessly continue Angelo? We can't get a better candidate than the guy who worked with him for 10, 15 years. Oh, for the last four or five months to start the season, I've been waiting for Jay, who's doing a great job on the podcast, but really wants to reveal himself, take off the mask, let's see your true personality. And now this. This is not what I expected at all. ♪

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Welcome back to The View from the Lane. I'm Danny Kelly. With us today, I'm delighted to say, James Moore. And still with us, despite the recent events here on the podcast, Jay Harris as well. Quickly, not just recent events on the podcast, but I had a bit of a scary situation on the way back from the game last night. If this will give anybody a bit of light relief. But I was walking through the back roads of Bournemouth.

at half 11 at night. It's rough around there. Yeah, bloods, crips, all that. And a dog appeared out of nowhere and started barking madly at me. And it was basically on a slightly raised bit of path and there was a very tiny fence and it could have basically, if it jumped over the fence, it's hitting me in the chest and

and I can see a hooded figure a little further down on the fence and I honestly thought I was about to get robbed it turns out it was just a woman who'd I don't know gone for a cigarette at half 11 at night and took her dog out with her and the dog was just a bit excited but my heart has never raced so quickly in my life I'm sorry to hear that what breed of dog was it? I'm not very good with dogs but

Was it bigger or smaller than the cat? It wasn't like a Labrador or something cute. It was one of those, I thought, oh, I'm in trouble here. No, it's not a chihuahua. That's from producer Tom for those who can't see that message.

The FA Cup draw, we were all talking on Monday, those who were on the podcast, about who we wanted. And I said, I hope we get something like Marine because that was such an amazing experience, even though I didn't get to go, having bought two tickets. And here we have it, away to Tamworth. And you, Jay, wanted to say you wanted to go somewhere you hadn't seen football before. Man, tell me you haven't been to Tamworth. I haven't been to Tamworth. I did actually go to uni in Birmingham, so I'm excited.

nearby-ish. So I couldn't be happier with that draw. I said lower league team, a ground I hadn't been before. So yeah, it's a very tight press box. So it's going to be competitive to see if I can get in there. So hopefully I'll get in there, but I'm really looking forward to that. And on Monday night, just after the draw, I was talking on national radio to the Tamworth assistant manager. He's a PE teacher.

And I asked him about the facilities and he said, well, the away dressing room, he said, I'm sorry if this sounds like a cliche, is a porter cabin with no heating, he said. There is hot water. He said, porter cabin. Because I said, could you tell me what might await World Cup winner Christian Romero when he gets there? He said, well, a porter cabin with no heating. And in a way, I'm delighted with that. It's a good experience for, I suppose, his players. Although I don't suppose Romero will be playing today.

who'll be playing centre-back? Well, back to, to Poster Coglu partnering Jed Spencer centre-back, aren't we? It really is the lamb. I think the ground is cool if I got it right. It's, it's low, low, low rise, low key and it'll be brilliant. Whatever 11 represents Spurs there, I think, you know,

I'm romantic enough about the FA Cup to think that is a brilliant, brilliant draw. Are you happy with it, James? Yeah, it is obviously fairly terrifying, as these things always are. No, no, no, you can't be scared of Tamworth. Come on, guys. Well, look, we've talked so much about the wild inconsistency of Spurs this season and how one week they can lose to Crystal Palace and the next they beat Aston Villa and then they lose to Ipswich and beat Manchester City. But successive games, Tamworth away and Arsenal away.

Would you accept? Would you take it? Where do you take it? If it meant we win at Arsenal. Win at Arsenal or have to live the rest of your life living with Spurs having lost at Tamworth. Oh, look, I can take any amount of shame on Spurs' behalf. I'm so used to it now. No, if I had to lose one of those games, if I had to lose one to win the other, I'd lose at Tamworth to win at Arsenal. There it is. You, James? A tough one.

Jay is now sat back in his chair watching Spurs fans thinking what are these people on? They should be trying to win the FA Cup and not going to win the Premier League so it's in keeping with my stance on the Premier League this season they should just go all in in the Cups so go full strength in that game and then play the reserves against Arsenal

We haven't even got the excuse, because I asked the gentleman I was speaking to if they were like so many other teams down the fifth level of English football, full-time professionals. He went, no, it's mostly teachers and accountants, I'm told. But it's a brilliant draw, and I can't wait for the game, frankly, unlike, necessarily, the next game. So Spurs welcome Chelsea on Sunday, possibly with a prospect of Gray and Dragosin at centre-back. I know that the...

The cliche is that Spurs will bounce back now and play brilliantly against their local rivals. I have to say I have no such confidence. I don't see Spurs' form at all. The Manchester City game notwithstanding, I can't pretend it didn't happen. Jay, if you're not writing a preview, what would you write if you were writing a preview of this game? No, I have actually collaborated with Simon Johnson, who covers Chelsea for The Athletic, to do a little bit of a debate piece about...

Yeah, the situation for both teams heading into this game. Who's in better shape? That's the debate, I suppose, Chelsea. Did you commission that, Jamie? No, I didn't know. Yeah, I think it's pretty obvious who's in better shape right now. I think, excuse me, Chelsea are top scorers in the division. They made, I think, seven changes to the starting line-up on Wednesday. They've got an extra day to recover. So they're going to be...

extremely fresh coming up against a Tottenham team that's not only coming off the back of a defeat, less time to prepare, but obviously low on confidence. And the centre-back situation is going to be tricky because Postacoglu said earlier that Romero's due to train today, although they've not got a big training session. It's going to be mainly recovery-based. So it sort of depends on how he gets on tomorrow. But if Romero is unavailable and obviously Davies and Van de Ven are out,

the prospect of, I know we were joking about it earlier, the Spence and Reguilón axis, but let's say it's Archie Gray who goes centre-back with Dragosin. It's just a horrible situation for an 18-year-old on his second Premier League start to be put up against Cole Palmer, Nicholas Jackson, Noni Madueke, Pedro Neto. So that's my only fear. And Kunku, Charles Pedro, Mudrick. And that is a very, very difficult assignment for,

I think if Romero is fit and starts and it's Romero and Dragasin, I guess Dragasin moves over to the left where he's not looked as comfortable as he has on the right. But you'd feel a little bit more comfortable

confident and it's not a cliche, it is true that when Tottenham play United and City and Aston Villa, teams that want to come out and play expansive attacking football, space opens up for them to hit them on a counter-attack and that will happen against Chelsea. So that's something that you have to cling on to going into Sunday's game, that there will be space for Werner, Son, Kulishevski, Solanke to hit Chelsea on the counter and there will be chances. So

whatever happens it's going to be interesting i think just my theory is the defense the patchwork defense is just going to put spurs at such a disadvantage that it's it's difficult to to do the job that's a that's the um rational view of the game james what's yours they're gonna win aren't we no um yeah it is very tough uh

I mean, I think what Jay says about Spurs against stronger teams is obviously true. We've just seen that in the results. I mean, I think the last three games Spurs have won in the Premier League have been against, or three of the last four maybe, against Manchester City and Aston Villa. You know, all good teams despite league positions. Whether Chelsea kind of fall into that trap is a different question, although I don't think there's any reason necessarily to think they won't.

I do think, particularly if Romero is back, I do think it will be the kind of game that will suit Spurs, it is wherever that's enough to kind of tip the balance in their favour. They're going to have to be incredibly diligent defensively and clinical offensively in that kind of game. But, you know, for all... We kind of looked at that Manchester City game as the outlier, which I'm not necessarily saying is incorrect. It was only two weeks ago that...

And, you know, there are a lot of players still available who played in that game. So I don't think it should be completely beyond the realms of possibility that it can get a result, but clearly it's going to be incredibly difficult. Again, listen, thank you very, very much indeed for making at least an informative and entertaining podcast out of that rubble of last night's defeat. Thank you both very much indeed, particularly to Jay, who has had to recover from a trauma in order to join us today. Thanks very much indeed. Also to you, James.

And to each and every one of you, I'm not joking about the dog thing. That sounded pretty scary. And thank you to each and every one of you who've listened to us. We know it's more fun to listen when Spurs have been whacking teams 3-4-0, but we try and cast a laser-like eye of honesty across the results when they're not doing so well. To remind you, the show can be contacted at x and twitter.com

at vftl podcast of course at blue sky at vftl podcast as well or you can email us vftl at theathletic.com and i hope that the podcast goes some way and only some way to reflect in the amazing coverage that spurs get in the athletic itself take advantage of the latest offer of just £1.99 a month for 12 months of the athletic and it's a huge amount of coverage of spurs and

and every other aspect of football, simply go to theathletic.com forward slash SpursPodSubscribe. Thank you again for listening. And my words, as always, is that I want them to win against Chelsea. I hope they can do it. Come on, you Spurs!

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