Derby doomsday | Is Pep still the man to save City?
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Hello and welcome to the latest episode of the Talking City podcast. We are coming to you from a state of disarray and delirium after a derby day where we're still not quite sure what happened, but Manchester City managed to throw away a 1-0 lead in the 88th minute and lose to one of the worst Manchester United sides I can remember seeing all

My name is Simon Bajkowski. I'm joined by Tyrone Marshall to try to unpick what on earth went wrong. Are you well, Ty? Yes, not bad. Thank you, Si. Not bad. Still a little bit, like you say, delirious and stressed from yesterday. I mean, journalistically, it is the worst possible outcome in the world, isn't it? And it's, yeah, it was the last thing either was wanted at pushing half six on a Sunday night. I think it's fair to say.

Yes. So what are your thoughts on the game? What did you walk out of the stadium thinking? How did that happen, basically? And also, I walked out thinking, that was a terrible game of football. The standard. I think we all joked about it in the week, saying it's going to be the worst Manchester derby in 30 years or whatever. I thought the standard was so poor. There were 22 internationals on the pitch.

And you're watching it and thinking like, what is happening here? What's going on? It was like a team who's lost their way against a team who didn't yet know what their way is. And somehow it was the team that don't know what their way is that actually won the game. And just the whole thing was baffling, to be honest. I think when I left, I was still trying to get my head around what had actually happened.

which given I'd tried to write about what happened, it's probably not a great sign. So apologies if anyone's read that. But it was just so confusing. I mean, I said to you, like the game, it felt like that City goal should be the winner because the game got the goal it deserved. Like, not a fluke, but eventually you say in a game like that, the goal will come from a mistake and it did, but it was a City mistake that led to a City goal. Like Gundogan's pass back to De Bruyne,

a five-yard ball and he played it four yards and left it short. And as a result, De Bruyne just had to swing a foot at it and it deflects perfectly for Vardy. And, you know, if that pass is played at the right pace, doesn't take a deflection,

Maybe the cross is still perfect, but maybe it isn't. If the pass is played at the right pace, it goes the same way as every other Kevin De Bruyne ball went in the derby, which was shanked out of play. And yeah, because I mean, De Bruyne and Foden both started for the first time this season in the same team. There were two changes from the 2-0 defeat against Juventus and

with Foden, one of the players to come in. Mateus Nunes was the left back, the emergency left back with Rico Luis suspended. And you kind of thought, yeah, we should see a more familiar City. And they had control of that first half and they scored the first goal. But it didn't feel like a familiar City, did it? There were just so many mistakes and anxiety in the team.

Yeah, there was an awful lot of mistakes and it still felt a very even game and they couldn't, it didn't feel like they could sustain attacks at all. You're used to City when they're at their best. It's kind of, it's not relentless, but it's sustained. The game is played in the opposition half and it just felt through a combination of errors. They weren't sustaining these attacks. They were still playing quite deep. You think of Foden and De Bruyne in the same team and you wonder, right, is this,

It's this kind of moment that creativity arrives, but there was just nothing, wasn't there? And I'm struggling to think of a chance, a really good chance they created from open play. And they didn't get those two on the ball in particularly dangerous areas. It did feel like a more familiar City team.

but it didn't play like one. And, you know, first half, they're 1-0 up. And that goal and then the melee that followed in the Hoyland-Walker incident, you're thinking, right, that's going to bring this game to life. And it didn't. It did nothing for it. And I thought second half City were really poor, to be honest. And it was just, it was a lifeless second half. I mean, I didn't see United getting back into it, but it was a lifeless second half from City. And they were playing with fire the way they approached it. Yeah, I'm getting a bit sick of...

the only balls to Erling Haaland being sort of toe pokes from defenders through to sort of him rushing back from goal to try and beat a defender to get a toe poke on it. It's like, it's amazing how much he's been starved of any service whatsoever. Jeremy Dock who starts on the left and had another one of those games where he looks very threatening until he's asked to

threatened the opposition goal and then it all falls down. He kind of moved a bit inside and played in a role that you kind of thought was probably more suited to Jack Grealish. But City, a few times, were sort of in on goal and it was just needing that one pass to Haaland in behind the United defence and it never came from Doku. So, but...

it it was just a poor performance um but like you said you never saw united getting back into it so he didn't go for it so he didn't sort of take advantage of their advantage but three minutes to go we're sitting there waiting for the final whistle really aren't we yeah we are i mean i thought it was pretty much done as a game i mean united were more in it in the second half

And, you know, there were people saying to me, United have played all right. And I was thinking they looked absolutely toothless in attack. They played all right in that there's more structure to them now than there was on the ten-hug. They're not as easy to play against. They're better at keeping the ball defensively and in midfield, but they look completely clueless going forward. And, you know, I think that's something Amarim has said recently that it takes...

inevitably it takes a coach longer to kind of get his imprint on an attack than a defence. And you can see that because they do look a better, more organised, more structured team, but they don't worry you in any sense at all. And, you know, I think it's the final 10 minutes or so. And I can't remember who it was, apologies to whoever it was, but a City fan tweeted and said, feels like they're going to score

And I looked at it and I thought, does it? I thought that feels like a City fan expecting the worst because I always watch that game thinking like it doesn't feel like they're going to score. Like, I think pretty much our work was done. You know, we were pieces written, confidence in, right, City have won 1-0. This is a poor performance. What's the angle? And then suddenly, I mean, it was just a stunning act of self-sabotage, wasn't it? I still don't think they would have scored if Nunes...

doesn't do that and the back pass can happen people play weak back passes all the time you know it happens but it felt like the danger had gone it was just a complete head loss you know it sums up what's happening to City at the moment that as soon as you made that mistake it's just sheer panic isn't it it's total panic from everyone and in his desperation to make up for it just conceived the most blatant penalty you're going to see and you almost felt at that moment like right

City are more likely to lose this than they are to win it now because we've seen this recently and they can just fall apart. I mean, the goal, the winning goal is just so easy and absolutely staggering. Like giving a centre-back whose passing is one of his best attributes all the time in the world to pick a pass, a fantastic

forward, makes a run between your two centre-halves. It's just Route 1, so, so easy. United did not have to work for that winning goal at all. It's a good pass. It's a great touch, to be fair for my mother. When you were watching the trajectory of that ball, I didn't think he was going to get there, so fair play to that. But it's such a simple goal, like a Route 1 straight pass for one forward running between two centre-halves. It just shouldn't happen. But it just kind of sums it up that as soon as something goes wrong,

team just losing their heads at the moment. Yeah, and I mean, the equaliser, I don't think the winning goal happens without the equaliser, and the equaliser, sort of, for anyone who didn't see it, City have a corner, City have a corner in the 87th minute, and somehow it gets back to the halfway line, and then Nunes...

plays a silly back pass that Ahmad intercepts, goes into the penalty area. Edison comes flying out of his goal and you're thinking, oh no, this is not good. Edison takes away the danger, doesn't he really? Yeah, he does very well. You know, he stops the shot. He isn't beaten. And Ahmad's got the ball on the edge of the penalty area, sort of on the left-hand side. Yeah, maybe he can have a shot on goal, but Edison's there in the way. Yeah.

And Nunes come flying in, having given the ball away, and just takes Ahmad out. And, you know, that... I can remember Joao Cancelo giving away a penalty like that against Fulham. And I don't think... Well, he left the club three months later. It was sort of one thing after another. But he's... You know, Fabian Delph did something...

similar in a season it was a penalty or a red card he didn't play again for months because Guardiola was like I'm not having someone like that who can't be trusted to make the easy decisions nobody is making the easy decisions in the City team at the minute you can't sort of you know you need to change all 11 of them because there's just a

every individual is failing, really. Is that fair? Was there anyone who came out well? No, I'm struggling to think of anyone who came out well, to be honest. It just felt a really flat performance. And, you know, I think I said to you that it didn't feel like

a result or a performance that you can build on. Like, even if they'd won 1-0, you know, at 1-0, my piece, which I've never seen in a day now, was essentially that they can't play United every week. That it's, as much as it's a derby, they were playing a team who were 13th in the Premier League, who at 1-0 were considerably closer to the relegation zone than they were top four. You know, they were playing a really poor team, basically. And,

both teams looked really poor and I just thought even watching it at 1-0 I thought City would have to play so much better than this to get a result at Villa but then like you say just the the speed at which belief can drain out of a team is is quite incredible really you know the speed at which this has happened and it's you know I mean I was thinking about it before I think it shows

Like what Nunes did, not the back pass, because like I say, that can happen, but the rashness of like charging in, trying to make up for his mistake, when essentially Edison had kind of neutralised the danger. You know, Edison did pretty well. And it felt at that point like it was going to need a really good pass from Ahmad to turn it back into a dangerous attacking opportunity. And it was just so rash from Nunes. And I think Pep touched on it afterwards, that there's just no composure there.

in this team at the moment, but it's just so unexpected that, and, you know, you kind of think you never normally do that, but then you think back to the, you know, the recent film and Guardiola letting rip at Foden after Palace last year and Phil, you don't touch a player in the 18 yard box and, you know, they have done it previously. And, you know, so it's hard to say this is a symptom of kind of what's going on at the moment, but just like the speed of the collapse was just,

defied belief, really. And watching the players at the end of the game, I mean, some couldn't get off quick enough. Others, like Haaland and Gavardial, were on the pitch for ages afterwards. Just like they looked like they couldn't believe it. And, you know, people were joking afterwards, like maybe they just didn't want to go in the dressing room. Just didn't want to avoid that. Like Haaland and Gavardial, that's their third lap of honour. Clapping like the Gen fans still remain. Just desperate not to go and see Pep. But yeah, they looked like

they looked as shell-shocked as everyone else was like how did that happen but it it just keeps happening and you almost feel like like there's no end in sight when is this going to end now yeah yeah and and for the second game in a row after juventus um the manager comes out and doesn't blame the players and the players go in two-footed on each other yeah

Bernardo Silva speaking to Sky says we deserved what happened at this level a game or two is unlucky we can't say this is lucky or unlucky 10 games is not about that

Minute 87 in a derby, winning 1-0 and our corner ends in a penalty for them. If we make these stupid decisions with three or four minutes to go, you deserve to pay for that. Looking at the game, I think there was only one team that could win the game, but in the end we lost. It's not one game, it's a lot of games lately. We have to look at ourselves. You can say, oh, it's a bit unlucky. No, it's the decisions you make. Today in the last minute, we played like under 15s.

I think there's a few under 15s in City's academy who would feel a bit hard done to by that and who would maybe be, you know, hoping for a game in the near future. But, you know, what makes it so extraordinary is these guys are winners. Like you say, like 22 internationals on the pitch, these guys all won the league and they're not afraid of sharing home truths with each other. It's just normally it gets a response and it's,

Even from minute one, there wasn't really a response from City from, you know, a meek defeat in Turin. No, they do look a little bit like a broken team at the moment. Like something has just been stripped away. And, you know, it's hard to say. And I mean, those two comments, Gundewinds and Bernardo Silva's now, yes, you want some accountability, but...

I mean, I'm not sure it's a good sign that players have been quite that critical in the media and the manager is set in a slightly different tone. I thought Guardiola yesterday looked so exasperated at times by what he was seeing

on the pitch and he's kind of he's defending his players in interviews after the game but then you watch him on the touchline and you're thinking he is not enjoying this like he's even when they took the lead like he was furious after they took the lead just like walked back shaking his head and he was he was livid and it's just you know he's obviously watching this thinking this is not this is not my team what is going on here and

I don't know whether this can be fixed by a couple of results, but they are giving off the impression now of kind of a broken team, a team that are falling apart, a team that have maybe got, I don't know how to say it, sick of playing with each other. It's maybe a bit excessive, but like something has just, you know, the magic has gone in some way and it's gone from being an awful lot of fun to being incredibly exasperating. And, you know, we've always said that playing for Guardiola is great when you're winning everything. But,

I don't think there's any dags and we've seen it in all those documentaries. It's incredibly taxing, incredibly stressful as well. And maybe that's just starting to show up on the players now that it's, you know, with the results coming as well, everything's catching up with them. And rather than being fun, it's become draining. It's become taxing. It's become a real mental challenge. And, you know, yes, you can say it's great that players are holding each other to account, but when it's happening in public twice in a week, it's,

You know, I'm not sure that's a great sign, really. It does kind of suggest to me that it's a team with a few issues at the moment. Yes. Let's take a break there because I want to get into Pep's reaction after the break. But yeah, please stick with us for part two, where we go into what was another very interesting post-match performance.

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Welcome back to the Talking City podcast. We are talking after Manchester City's 2-1 defeat in the Manchester derby to United. And yeah, we're just talking about Bernardo Silva's comments after the game. There's a real change in tone from him, I thought, in the press conference. He's been so sort of defiant about his team's performances in this run and saying, you know, they were pretty good, there's not much wrong with them, you know, when they won at

He was like, there's nothing different in the performance. We just won. And then, you know, he basically came out after the United game and was like, no, we're not good. We're not doing anything right. It's not good enough. And it's all on me. And I can't find a solution. And those are real kind of alarm bells for a manager to be coming out and saying, I don't know how to change this.

Yeah, yeah, it really is. And, you know, you do and Pep, I was trying and obviously failing to speak to City players in the mid-zone afterwards, which left a lot of time for chatting to other people as well. And you do look at it and you just wonder how much more of this he can take before he says, this isn't working, something's got to give. And the obvious thing that's going to give is Guardiola and Pep.

I think we were talking about during the game that you look at, and his press conferences, you're right, recently have been fascinating. But you look at it and you listen to what he says and you almost feel like, why are you still here? Because he doesn't give off the impression that he's enjoying it, does he? No. I asked him fairly early on in this one, I think it was, it must have been a few moments before Tottenham, are you enjoying the challenge of finding a solution?

And he was just like, no, absolutely not. And you look at him now and there's no sense that he's enjoying this at all. You look at him on the touchline, you get no sense he's enjoying it. And even a lot of his comments about staying are around like this obligation he feels, this duty he feels. And it's almost like, you know, I'm sure, you know, he clearly loves this club. I'm sure he does still want to be there. But you listen to him in public and it feels like he almost feels like he has to be there rather than he really, really wants to be there.

And even with some of that stuff yesterday, it's very defeatist for Pep. It's very kind of out of character for him. And there's no doubt players listen to press conferences. They listen to what their manager says. They can't avoid it at times. And they will know that some of it is for their benefit. But when they're listening to their manager talk like that, I think it's got to affect the squad. And in a way, we've never had this with Pep before at any club, really.

He had some struggles at Bayern in the Champions League. He got a lot of criticism from some Bayern legends there, but he still won the league every year. Pep has never had a run like this that he's had to deal with. So he's got no experience, really, of being in this situation. This is new territory for him. And I'm just not sure the messages he's conveying at the moment feel like the right ones, especially to that squad, who are probably looking at it now going, right, we've...

We didn't know if he was staying or going. Now he's staying. But is he staying? Because, you know, he does keep saying, I can get sacked. If this keeps happening, I can get sacked. And I think we all know he's not going to get sacked. But I think we all accept there's probably a chance that, you know, if this goes on for another two months, does he just turn around to the club and say, maybe it's best I go? And I think it's only natural if players are listening to that and don't quite know what their manager's thinking,

quite know if he's in it for the long term. If he's saying in public, I'm out of ideas, essentially. When the players are looking at that last night or this morning, what are they thinking? It's not good for the camp and maybe it's just Pep being honest, but

The more I listen to him at the moment, the more I think, is it a good idea? It's almost sacrilegious to say it, but it's like, is it a good idea you're still here? Is this working for you? And I know he feels that obligation to rebuild and to leave the club in a better place, but it's not a perfect world. Sometimes that just isn't possible. And maybe it won't be possible. Maybe it will. Maybe he'll get some players back, sign a couple in January, they'll end the season well.

you know this is this this run has definitely got a shelf life I think there's no way they continue to May winning you know say it gets a little bit better but say they're winning 40 of their games between now and the end of May still you know I I don't think yeah he looks at that and says right yeah another two years for me I just think something's got to improve drastically because he's given off vibes at the moment of someone who like he says is kind of running out of ideas

And we must say he signed a new deal in November. So one month ago, he signed a new deal that takes him until 2027. So, and he's never broken a contract before in his career. So, you know, to all intents and purposes, there is, he's there until 2027. And he says he wants to be there and he wants to be,

trying to find a solution. I think you're right that the city hierarchy will never sack him. At the same time, they are business-minded and they're quite calculated. They got rid of Mark Hughes in a very calculated way. They got rid of Roberto Mancini in a very calculated way. Both were pretty messy with the potential for PR blowback, but they thought the long-term outweighed

the messiness of the decision they made. I don't think they're ever going to sack Pep, but as they look and see this run and as they see a manager saying, no, I can't work, work out what's going on, you know, they've got to be thinking what we're all asking basically, you know, is it right? Is, is this right for everyone that it continues? And it seems crazy to be having these conversations. But, you know, you think if,

It looks like something's over. And if the manager's not over, then there's a hell of a lot of players in that team who you've got to shift because there's just so many of them who aren't performing. Yeah. Yeah. It's just, it looks very bleak at the minute.

Yeah, I mean, it's massive end of an era vibes, isn't it? I don't think there's any doubt about that. And like you say, at least something has to give between the manager and the players, even maybe both. It's pretty clear now this squad needs a rebuild. It needs more depth. You know, Pepin Pepin's always said he likes working with a small squad. Maybe those

you know you want to say you've got away with it because they've won numerous titles without a left back loads of injuries that you know they've gone away with it because of the brilliance of that squad and the brilliance of that manager you know they've won titles without a left back they've won titles they've not got away with it have they their strategy has paid off but i think you can say that strategies need to change sometimes for new circumstances and this looks like that yeah

Yeah, they've never had to deal with a collective kind of injury slash fitness crisis like this. They've lost key players before and had the quality to get away with it. Guardiola's had the imagination to find solutions, like I say, at left-back, at centre-forward. But you can't find solutions when it's half the team, or all the team, as he said recently, that are struggling for fitness.

it's a more demanding game than ever. It's a more packed schedule than ever. And, you know, I think he basically was admitting on Friday that, yes, we probably need a bigger squad now, but it's not just a case of we need a bigger squad. Therefore, when you sign three or four more players, there's probably half a dozen maybe that need replacing and something does need freshening up. And there is that, you know, we've seen it with countless great teams that something always has to change and, you know,

those managers with the greatest longevity have done it in different ways you know you think back to Ferguson who's changed his coaching staff um or whether it's just when you're when you're kind of at your peak two or three players three or four players go freshen up the squad I don't know you know I know Guardiola was talking about that previously as well about the value of kind of new voices coming in maybe they've just not had enough new voices coming in and you know the

It can be that basically this squad has won everything, has been a great squad together, but now things are difficult and they're suddenly looking at it going, you know what, I'm sick of the sight of you. Played with you for six years and yeah, it was great, but now you're rubbish and you're rubbish and you're too old and you're a bit slow. And they're all saying that about each other in a way. And it can, you know, it can quickly go from this was a great environment while we're winning to suddenly,

There's a bit of friction there and it's not, you know, when times are hard, it's not quite so enjoyable. And maybe there's a little bit of that going on at the moment. Like I said, there's public comment certainly suggests so. And whatever happens with Guardiola, it's a squad that clearly needs freshening up quite a bit, I would say. It's starting in January and then definitely in the summer. Yeah, and those, it doesn't have to be, you know, players saying it to each other, but it can just be like,

I'm not going to give you the ball when I would have done because you can't do it anymore or you can't do it at the moment. Or even I'm just going to hesitate over giving you the ball because I'm not sure you can do it anymore. And in that moment, that's all the hesitation that you need to lose control.

Yeah, I think January signings are essential to get some fresh blood into the squad and something new. And it's going to be interesting to see how loyal Guardiola stays to all these players that are not performing. We did see Mateo Kovacic come back from injury. We did see John Stones being readied to come off the bench before it all went wrong.

So there are players coming back, so there should be more room to leave people out. They don't have a midweek fixture this week because they're out of the Carabao Cup. So there is room for a bit of a sort of mini reset, is there, this week? It feels... Either just training time together or just like...

go away and don't speak to anyone at the club for a few days kind of thing. Yeah, I mean, it feels like a big week, doesn't it, for that? A, to get this defeat out of their systems. I don't know what the schedule is. I don't know if you've got any insights on that. But like you say, it's almost ideal to say, right, take Monday and Tuesday off. Just forget about that. Don't speak to each other. Clear your heads. Come back in. And then you've got...

a run of training sessions that they won't have had, well, since this run started, essentially, to try and fix things, to try and build confidence, confidence in your own game, like you just said, confidence in each other's games, to try and find a structure, rediscover a platform from which to play. And, you know, it's a difficult game to go back into, but

I don't think Villa are as good this season as they were last season. Obviously, this fixture holds some pretty bleak memories, given how... I think it was 1-0 last season, but they were absolutely battered, weren't they? It was a pretty eye-opening night, that. So that holds some trepidation for that reason. But in a way, maybe it also gives them a chance to say, right, let's use this week productively. Like you say, another...

Four training sessions for Covertich and Stones and they might be ready to start. Rico Lewis is going to come back. Just having that greater depth on the bench, maybe things, it can spark a bit of life into them. But it does feel a big week for that because it's,

It's not in games where this is going to get solved. It's in training, I think. I think we've seen enough now to know that City aren't just going to play a game and it's going to click and it's all going to be fine. I mean, Pep kind of said that for the Liverpool game, didn't he, when he changed his tune from needing an A win to needing 10 to 12 wins. And we saw it with Forest as well, which proved to be a total false dawn, really. They need a run of training sessions now.

where the belief grows, the togetherness grows again, where they kind of get that confidence back in each other and maybe you start build something from there. And if they can just go to Villa Park and even if they don't win the game, if they draw it, but they put in a performance that looks more like City, then maybe you can say, right, maybe that week changed something. But if they go there and it looks the same and this week hasn't changed anything, given the schedule then, given there's going to be no break again until...

Maybe January, would they have a week off? We've not been in the Carabao Cup. I can't say for certain. The schedule isn't too bad, you know. Boxing day, then a 29, then I think a fourth. So they've got some time.

over Christmas I would say. It's just those two games a week, it's literally like, it's a recovery day. Then kind of one training session basically between games, isn't it? Which is so hard. When a lot of that is going to be walk through a set pieces, walk through how we're setting up, you know, it's hard to have. I think for coaches these days, that run of maybe three or four training sessions in a row can really change something and the kind of time you value on a training ground.

I heard Pep mention it the other week, didn't he? When he said how I'd love to have Brighton and Bournemouth beat us when they had a week off. I would love that. And now he's got that. So what are we going to see at Villa Park? And if we see something's changed, you can go, right, that's encouraging. If they go there and nothing's changed,

I think there's an argument there and you say, right, this is time to really worry now. If a week on the training ground for someone as good as Guardiola changes nothing, then I think it'll be really concerning. So in a way, it feels like a really big week in the season for them. Yeah. I mean, this feels like the most negative thing

for a while and the most critical podcast for a while, but it's kind of the build-up of everything. There'll be loads of fans who are absolutely fuming at what's going on. There will also be fans who are like, well, remember Gillingham or remember 99 and, you know, there were quite a few fans on the train back from Palace last week who were sort of like,

talking wistfully about when a point at Palace, they'd bite you half full and things like that. So, you know, I don't think it's... The disaster is not winning the league this season because, you know, you can't win the league every year. They would expect top four. But I think the issue is just the big picture, isn't it? There's no...

end in sight to this spiral and you don't know how bad it's going to get. And I think United on Sunday was a case of we haven't played well, but if we can win this, we can build on it. And then they threw it away. And they did do that in the treble year. I think when they played really, they were 1-0 up at Old Trafford and they ended up losing 2-1 after that.

Bruno Fernandes goal should have been disallowed that way. So, you know, they can turn it round, but right now, nobody looks to have an answer and Pep's saying he's not got an answer. And that's kind of where all the concerns are coming from. Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, like I say, I think fans have...

Fans have seen enough success recently to kind of accept that, okay, you look at the great teams have difficult seasons. In a way, City's being a success has not really been having a difficult season. A mate of mine, his dad is a season ticket holder. So they sent me a picture of them still drinking at half 10 last night and smiling faces and poking fun at it basically. He's never seen win or lose on the booze and then comfortable dropping the win from here on in. And, you know,

You can laugh about it, especially after a day of being on the beers. But it does kind of sum up the attitude. And I think the bigger concern is about whether this is the end, because it's not a nice end, is it? But, you know, like I say, it's been a negative podcast. It doesn't have to be the end. I said then great teams have bad seasons. Look at Liverpool under Klopp. They had two shocking seasons.

And in both of those seasons, I think the Liverpool fans are looking at it going like, this is over. This has been so bad. This is just done. And then both of those seasons were followed up with really good seasons. So it's, you know, things can change. You mentioned that defeat at Old Trafford in the treble season. That was the week they lost to Southampton as well.

and was at a point where, you know, obviously it was nowhere near as bleak as this, but things weren't working. We've subsequently seen Guardiola's speech after Salampton in the dressing room where he is really critical of the players. And, you know, that was kind of a defining run and they recovered to win the treble.

And look, you know, spoiler alert, they ain't going to win the treble this season. I think it's fair to say that. But it is recoverable. And like I say, maybe they have a great week in training. Maybe they have a couple of meetings and thrash out differences, agree to stop slagging each other off in front of the cameras and go to Villa, put in a great performance, win 3-0 and things click.

feels unlikely at the moment but you know these these things these things can change um and it almost it still feels like it's got to change at some point doesn't it it's still you know i think we've been doing this podcast we've both been quite hesitant at times speaking about like the end of an era and guardiola because it feels so sacrilegious to say it and it's still quite hard to get your head around what is actually happening i mean you've

when we did the podcast on Friday, I think you were pretty confident in predicting a City win. And, you know, speaking to our MEN colleagues who were doing United yesterday, both of them were like, it's going to be a City win, isn't it? And it still feels like you turn up to City games and it's like City are going to win. Like, obviously City are going to win. And it's quite hard to now look at it and go like, well, maybe they're not because if anyone won in 10, things aren't going very well. Yeah.

So, and that's a bit of a sea change now because I think everyone's now saying Villa, like City aren't going to win. No way they're going to win that game. So maybe they'll surprise us and they will win it. But it is still, the speed at which it's fallen off is still, it makes it quite hard to get your head around a thing, doesn't it? It's still quite hard to actually say it out loud how bad things have gone because it has been so quick that things have gone from brilliant to catastrophic, basically.

Yeah, we've also been hesitant to talk about end of an era because at least one of us has written a book about the era not ending. So we're going to have to start promoting it ironically at this rate. But we will leave it there ahead of, as you've described, a very interesting week where we will hopefully see some change ahead of time.

the weekend trip to Aston Villa. I hope you've managed to enjoy some of that podcast after a Sunday that probably wasn't very enjoyable and we will speak to you soon. Thanks for listening.