City CRISIS worsens | January plan needed | Title hopes over
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Hello and welcome to the Talking City podcast from the Manchester Evening News. My name is Simon Bykovski, joined by Tyrone Marshall on Monday morning after another Anfield horror show, but this one's slightly more expected. Let's get straight into it, Ty. 2-0 in the end. Felt like...

It was better than expected in many ways. City not favourites for a league game for the first time in seven and a half years, and it showed they were well beaten. But there were a few surprises along the way, starting with team news that saw Edison and Josco Guardiola on the bench. What do we make of Guardiola's attempts to stop the rot at Anfield?

I mean, it was bold, wasn't it? I think I said to you when that team news dropped that he'd entered the phase of kind of ruthlessly dropping random players of crisis management, which is what you see of other managers, really. You don't tend to expect it of Guardiola. And while Guardiola, you can maybe understand it. I mean, he has basically been at fault for four goals in two games. He's still, I mean, he's arguably City's

third most dangerous attacker, maybe even second most dangerous attacker. So you are losing something when you take him out of the team going forward. And as much as he's been at fault for those goals, it's been a collective failing as well, really. I think the Edison one, we were both more surprised at. Obviously, the rush of blood to the head against Feyenoord. But other than that, I think he's been pretty good for City this season. And it also felt... It must have been one of those decisions that Guardiola would have agonised over because...

I think it's very clear that Ederson did not take what happened at Tottenham at the end of last season very well. It's fair to say we know he didn't want to come off. And then as much as Ortega becomes the hero, I think it's fair to say that frustrated Ederson. It was noticeable after that when Ortega was Flavour of the Month that Guardiola was very keen to talk him up and talk up his role across the whole season rather than just Ederson's save.

And Edison being dropped for Ortega, rather than this being a run-of-the-mill cup game or Champions League game where they do rotate sometimes, I mean, it feels pretty big. And given the way Edison reacted to what happened at Tottenham last year, you can't imagine he was very happy at being dropped. It's going to

alter the dynamics there, especially at a time when Edison could have left in the summer. I think there was a long period where we expected him to leave and he didn't. He stayed put and now he'd be dropped on the back of what's essentially one stake. Felt pretty ruthless. I mean, you'd have to say it was...

a call it was a call that didn't backfire I think it worked pretty well I mean Ortega made a lot of saves he made four in the first 10 minutes um and even though he conceded the penalty I don't think you can blame him for conceding the penalty so you know he had a pretty good game but it felt it felt a big call and it was you know it was an interesting team selection in many ways it was a very defensive team selection you looked at that team and thought how

you know, beyond Haaland just doing something, how are they going to score a goal? But I think we've been in that position with City for a while now, really. The team that perhaps selected it, I mean, it kind of gave us what we expected, really, which was a performance that was generally pretty poor, really. I mean, there was moments in the second half where it was OK, but...

Even when, I think we said in the second half, even when they were playing okay and they were back in the game, it was still Liverpool that looked more likely to score. I don't think there was maybe a five-minute spell in the first 15 minutes or so of the second half when City looked like they might create a chance or do something. But other than that, they just looked pretty toothless, didn't they? And that was probably reflected in that team selection. Yeah. And I mean, you know, Guardiola will keep saying these are the players that won the league once.

and have won four leagues in a row, but won the league three months ago. So they've not turned into bad players overnight. But yeah, there's a fan on Twitter who pointed out that aside from Haaland, the starting 11 had zero Premier League goals between them this season. It is incredible when you think of sort of Bernardo Silva, Elkay Gundogan, Phil Foden, before you get onto two others,

But just as Guardiola's well within his right to say, well, these players have done it recently, so they should do it again.

They've not scored this season, so why should they score at Anfield? Also interesting in the team selection. I mean, it was sort of a bit interesting that Ruben Diaz came back because we've sort of had a lot of talk this week about the leadership that's been lacking. And I thought he did add some of that. But the other big one was Kevin De Bruyne on the bench.

Now, Kevin De Bruyne has had this frustrating injury where he thought he was going to be out for three days and he's been out for... He was out for nine weeks. But, I mean, he's not started. He played against Inter in September and he's not started a game since then. His minutes since coming back, he came back in Lisbon, 13 minutes, 27, 22, 29 and another 20 or so yesterday. So,

you talk about them not creating chances the biggest chance they got was when de bruyne came off the bench um and again that doesn't feel like a coincidence um so something isn't right with de bruyne or you know he's not fit to play longer or pep doesn't think he's fit to play longer um and that is is another big issue isn't it really

Yeah, it really is. And I think, you know, I think you turned to me not long before De Bruyne came on saying, I can't believe De Bruyne hasn't come on yet. And I mean, he was stripped and ready to come on before Liverpool got that penalty along with Grealish. But to leave it so long when the team is showing such a lack of creativity was surprising. And like I said, it does feel like there's something going on there. And these fitness issues with De Bruyne aren't, this isn't something that's developed this season, is it? We've kind of seen this since,

you know, probably the start of last season, really, that he's struggling to stay fit for long periods. But he is also your most creative player. But it feels like there's a bit of a balance to come on to. Maybe we'll come on to it. But I thought it was one of the poorest and, in a way, one of the saddest performances from a City midfield under Pep that I can ever remember. You know, what was once the team's great strength, it's kind of been Guardiola's signature move in football, isn't it? To revolutionise the way midfields play.

I mean, they just offered nothing. They were beaten technically. They were totally dominated physically. And I mean, Liverpool had three players centrally at times. City had five or six with Ikanji stepping in, with Nunes drifting in. And they still just couldn't do anything to stop Gravenberch, McAllister and Schobblesley. I said to a few people at half-time, and it did improve a little bit in the second half, but as bad as things were defensively in the first half,

I've never seen a City team have so few ideas in possession.

and they just couldn't progress the ball. You'd have maybe two, maybe three forward passes before they'd basically run out of ideas. They'd run out of an option. They'd go back. You'd see a midfielder go back to a centre-back. A centre-back would have it on halfway, look around. There'd be no option. They'd almost shrug their shoulders and, where am I supposed to go? And they'd go back to Ortega, and then the Kop would just absolutely roar and delight in it. And that must have happened four or five times in the first half. And you're thinking, like,

I can't ever remember a City team looking this short of ideas on the ball. And, you know, the physical issues in midfield, I think, have been obvious for a while now. But it was physical and technical on Sunday. I mean, we said that they were maybe wasting time a little bit at the start of the game. But also, they were trying to bait the press, basically, weren't they? They were standing on the ball. Diaz was standing on the ball. Ortega was taking his time on the ball. They were trying to get Liverpool to press them.

and then play through but they just couldn't play through they didn't they didn't have the the nows or the patterns of play or the ideas to play through them and i just i couldn't remember seeing the city team kind of lacking those ideas and that that skill in midfield to work the ball forward and you know i know there's a lot of injuries in there we've spoken endlessly about rodri maybe it shows the last three games that they're missing coverage as well but

You'd still expect more. And I just thought the centre of the pitch was what you expect to be a great strength of a Guardiola team was just a huge weakness. Yeah, the first 20 minutes were something, weren't they? I mean, we've been there before when City had been blown away at Anfield. This felt a bit like a surrender.

And, you know, it's really interesting because Guardiola said earlier in the season about teams coming to the Etihad and sort of not trying to play, basically. And, you know, he said, what can we do? Put our foot on the ball and just wait for them to come? No, we can't do that. Like, maybe we could do that at 3-0, but not at 0-0 because teams expect, you know, us to play. And...

They did exactly that at nil-nil, like you said. They tried to bait Liverpool, but Guardiola was saying afterwards that he would love to play the wingers, but he can't because they're not good at transitions. But it was essentially a team built for transitions because the midfield was absent. It was basically pass it around the back line or keep your foot on the ball

in defence until the Liverpool attack come and then boot it up to Foden or Haaland to try and control it, set Nunes or Haaland free. And that was that. It was like the one ball City wanted to play in that first half was sort of from their edge of their box to the halfway line. There was no kind of progressing the ball in the way that we all know and recognise from a Guardiola team. And I don't want to get too far into like

They're straying from their principles or whatever, because I think we saw in sort of the Pep versus Klopp rivalry, both managers being a lot more pragmatic when they played each other and sort of adapting their tactics to try and outfox the other one. But what was clear was that whatever City were trying, Liverpool were just steamrolling through them in a spell that should have been 3-0, could have been 5-0.

Absolutely. I mean, Liverpool must be wondering how it was only 1-0 after 20 minutes. I think there were seven shots in the first 20 minutes. And like you said, they had no plan for how to get out and how to get the ball out. And whether it was simply trying to bait Liverpool's press, it felt like they were trying to slow the game down as well. There was a couple of defensive throw-ins. Ortega was taking forever over goal kicks.

They went long to Haaland a lot, which we know Haaland is great at that, but so is Van Dijk. I mean, it's the one game where Haaland's really going to get a battle and struggle to kind of dominate a centre-back in a way he often does. And that was very evident. And if he didn't win it, the number of duels the midfield lost felt incredible. They were just getting swamped. And it's kind of what you expect City to do, and they just couldn't do it. I said to you early on, and I said it to someone else in the mix afterwards as well, that

in a way it kind of summed up the frazzled thinking that walker won the toss and turned the teams which i know we did last year at anfield and i know a lot of people do but if that was if that tactic was by design at the start if it's like right let's ease ourselves into this game let's slow it down at every opportunity stephen take an age over gold kicks let's just take the sting get a liverpool's momentum because we know they're going to start quickly then don't switch the teams do that in front of your own fans

When you're doing it in front of the Kop, all you're doing is getting them riled. They're on your backs. They're right on top of you. It just felt like, you know, if this had been thought through, and I know maybe you don't want Liverpool to attack the Kop second half, but if you're expecting them to start quickly, don't kind of give them that enthusiasm because when City did slow it down and then lost it, I mean, that first 20 minutes felt intense on and off the pitch because Liverpool fans were, in a way, they were loving the fact that City were trying to slow it down and couldn't get out.

And I just think, you know, I mean, maybe it's simplistic way of looking at it, but I just feel like it's going to be easier to do that as City in front of your own fans than it is at the Kop. And even if it's 100 yards away at the other end of the pitch, the Kop are going to be annoyed about it, but you're not going to hear it as clearly, I don't think. And they're not going to be as attuned to what's going on when it's that far away. And it just felt like the kind of thing that, you know, a confidence...

A confident, aggressive team maybe goes there, wins the toss and says to Liverpool, right, we'll turn you around. I think a team that's fragile and low on confidence and looking to ease their way into it, maybe that's not the approach you'd take. If one were to be brutal as well, you might say that was the only thing Walker won all afternoon. Yeah, I mean, it's a difficult place at the moment, isn't it? I mean, he's...

Yeah, I mean, he was poor, wasn't he? He was very poor. I think I gave him a three because it was just, not only he struggled so much on and off the ball, but also just like, he just perpetually seemed to be arguing, arguing with his own players, arguing with the referee. And, you know, I don't, if you want to argue and then, you know,

score a wonder goal like Wayne Rooney did that time, then absolutely fine. But there comes a time where you think, well, if you're constantly in these sort of bickering moments, then how are you going to be in the right frame of mind to be absolutely perfect? However, it wasn't just Walker. Like we've seen, as we've seen in all season, basically, lots of players not doing as well as they can do. So you concede the first goal because...

A ball is played over the top for Salah, right through over the midfield. Akanji doesn't get close enough to Salah. Ake could cut the cross out and then Walker doesn't mark Gakpo at the back post. The second goal, Luke kills it off. Akanji, Diaz and Walker all get into a muddle again and then Ortega gives the penalty away. I'm not sure he could do much about it, but...

It is hard to have success with any style or formation or structure, isn't it, when players are just not playing well? Yeah, absolutely. And a lot of them are not playing well. And they have, you know, we keep mentioning it, but they just look, they look to have, they look a physically weak team at the moment. And I think there's a clear blueprint of how to beat them. And you saw that intensity Liverpool started with. You can absolutely guarantee Forest are going to do the same on,

On Wednesday, you mentioned the arguing. I thought at times in the first half, they just looked like a fractured team, to be honest. When Foden went down, I think they showed bits of this on Sky, but when Foden went down not long after the first goal, there was an inquest into it. And maybe it's one of these things you read into when a team is on a bad run. But I also think it's one of those things that happens when a team is on a bad run. And it just felt like they were blaming each other. And Walker and Ake were having a very...

You know, it certainly looked a heated argument, a lot of hand gestures. And I think Bernardo came involved and kind of moved them apart. And then Walker was complaining to Bernardo. And, you know, there was clearly a difference of opinion over who was at fault. And you mentioned that goal. I mean, I'd have to watch it back to see how many times it happened. But certainly first half, it felt noticeable. The number of times that Van Dijk or Alexander-Arnold would just play a ball over the top and a Liverpool player would get to it.

And I mean, Salah did it against Ake. He must have been pushing half a dozen times. But Diaz did it as well. I think there was one ball that was coming under Ruben Diaz's nose. He just kind of let it bounce. And Luis Diaz got there first and it went through to Ortega. Gakpo did it against Walker several times. And it was almost like Liverpool played some good football, but at times also,

Van Dijk and Alexander-Arnold just laddered it forward. And one of the front three won the foot race to get the ball. And you've transformed the defensive situation into an attacking one. And I can't really recall City ever doing that. We talked about them going long, but they didn't make any use of it. Whereas Liverpool did. And, you know, it just seems a weakness when that's such an easy tactic for a team to play. Yeah, it did feel, you mentioned the crowd earlier, like both the Liverpool team and the Kop could not believe that.

what they were witnessing or participating in against a team that have given them so many problems and so much heartbreak, basically, over the last seven years. However, as much of a struggle as it was, the last 20 minutes of the first half saw City kind of finally get some passing moves together. And the first...

30 minutes of the second half Liverpool had the best chance in the second half when Salah should have scored but blazed over but City were probably the best the better team for those 40 minutes would we say

Yeah, I don't know if they were a better team at the end of the first half, but they certainly got a foothold in the game, didn't they? They stopped the unsworn. I mean, it felt like, after that first 20 minutes, it felt like these are massive underdogs, but it felt like they could sneak a goal here. They should be 4-0 down, but it could be 1-1.

Yeah, you would say that at that moment, at the end of the first half, it felt like maybe Liverpool would regret not taking some of these chances. I think their best spell in the game was certainly the 15 to 20 minutes after half-time. And, you know, they got Akanji on the ball in central midfield a lot more. They started to progress it a lot more. I mean...

At the start of the second half, I think they got Akanji on the ball, facing forward in central midfield twice in the first five or six minutes and won their first two corners of the game. Suddenly you felt like, OK, there's a bit of momentum here, maybe a swing, but I go back to it. I can't, beyond the De Bruyne chance, which was a mistake by Liverpool, I can't recall them having a chance, really. I can't recall them creating anything. And

As much as they were improved, let's be honest, they've had worse results at Anfield than this, but not many worse days really. I think I said to you at one point, we both said at 1-0 it was a hard one to pitch because it did feel like more of the same, maybe even worse just in the kind of...

almost spineless nature of that first half at times but then watching the second half and especially the first 20-25 minutes you're thinking okay i can see something here the way they're getting a central defender into midfield starting to move the ball a bit better you're like is this something to cling on to is this signs of an improvement and it felt hard to pitch and it felt hard to pick because at one nil you know probably not a bad result really even two nil given the way the first 20 minutes went not disastrous um but it's just it just

There's just too many problems at the moment. I've mentioned the midfield there. Like you say, the defence is poor, making a lot of errors. And then the goal scoring. And you just can't see how... You look at that team yesterday. I can't, beyond capitalising on Liverpool's mistake, I don't envisage how they were trying to score a goal. I don't see the idea there, which is so unusual for a City team or a Guardiola team.

And, you know, yes, they did for 15, 20 minutes at the start of the second half, they did have some momentum. And you could tell, you know, we talked about the atmosphere at the start as well. The atmosphere changed a bit. Liverpool fans started to get nervy and you could sense that. There was more frustration when their players lost it. Suddenly they couldn't get out as easily. And you sensed that switch in atmosphere.

But you also felt that this is better from City, but how are they going to score a goal? Where is this goal coming from that they need? And you never really felt like there was, that it was there. You never really felt like, you know, for all that momentum they had, I don't really recall them creating any chances from it. There was, you know, there's a couple of corners, the odd kind of melee, I guess, in the box, but there was nothing that you'd say, that was a good chance. You know, that was the chance to score. That's how they're going to create a chance.

And it just didn't feel like there was a lot of creativity going on there. I mean, I asked this to Pep after the game, but I'll get your view because your view matters more. Do you feel more or less confident that City will turn things around, as Guardiola has said, after that performance and result? Oh, man, that was really, really difficult. Yeah.

I mean, maybe about the same, maybe about the same, which I know is ultimately sitting on the fence. But, you know, when we were talking about how to pitch it, I said to you in the second half, I've got a piece from the first half here about that inquest and it's negative. And then a piece from the second half that is maybe there's some signs of their old self here. Maybe they're onto something. So I think given the state of the game after 20, 25 minutes, I think they can take something from it.

you know had that continued and they'd lost this game three four five nil which felt very possible after 20 minutes then you'd say it's disastrous i can see why they would watch it back on tape maybe and analyze it and pepper look at it and say that second half that is something to cling on to

But, you know, at the same time, I mean, it was only on Friday when Pep was saying one win isn't going to change anything. We need 10 in a row. So one reasonable second half. Yeah, maybe it's something to cling to. But in the grand scheme of things, I mean, they didn't deserve anything from the game, did they? There's absolutely no doubt about that. And yes, there were some signs of life in the second half.

But I don't know, it still felt pretty demoralising. And it still, I think it just kind of confirms what we know, that this is the end of an era. There's a lot of careers, I think, City careers here entering the home straight. I don't think there's any chance they win the title from here. You just can't see them going on the kind of run.

that we're accustomed to. There's no way that this run of form suddenly translates into an 18-game unbeaten run in the Premier League with 15 wins. I just can't see that happening. And if we're saying that they're going to lose at least three or four more league games, you're talking about Liverpool leading to lose eight. I just don't think it's going to happen.

But yeah, I mean, I still think they'll recover enough confidence to, you know, you see some of the pieces this morning saying they're in battle for the top four now and they're obviously fifth at the moment and Forrester at six. I think they'll easily recover enough to get top four. But I do think it's kind of end of an era and it's,

it's just end of days i think for the for this team um and there's a you know there's a comparison to be had which i've just go off a bit of a tangent i've done a piece about this morning i mentioned the midfield you look at i mean it's april 2023 when city beat liverpool 4-1 at the etihad on their way to the treble liverpool finished fifth that season liverpool's liverpool had basically left it too late to rebuild their midfield and klopp had an aging

physically declining team especially in midfield I think they had nine midfield options that day and some of them were injured but Henderson and Fabinho started with Harvey Elliott Arthur was on the bench Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain came off the bench James Milner came off the bench Curtis Jones Thiago and Navi Keita weren't in the squad that's nine midfielders seven of them left the club

Two of them are still there. And the three that started yesterday and dominated City were all signed in one window. So it does show you how quickly things can change. But it also feels like City are now where Liverpool were then, that they've left it too late. They've not been proactive enough in the window. And it means that this summer, there's got to be sweeping changes, I think.

Well, on that cheery note, we will say goodbye to part one and come back in part two when we'll talk through the reaction from the game and go into a bit more what changes are needed. We have one more act for you this evening.

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Hello and welcome back to a less cheery than usual edition of the Talking City podcast, but reflecting a sixth defeat in seven games for Manchester City, seven games without a win now in full-on crisis mode for a team that is used to winning everything. I was sat in Pep Guardiola's press conference after the match and he was quite positive about

But in a way that suggested his team were not title challengers, I would say. You know, he spoke about how City have come here in their prime in previous years and struggled. So, you know, it was no surprise to see them struggle with a team that is basically far off their prime. And I don't want to sort of lay it on too thick, but there were sort of shades of...

the infamous David Moyes United tweet where Pep was saying sort of they were very, very good and the effort was brilliant, but they just can't create anything in attack. They're not doing anything defensively and they don't have a midfield. So it feels like the title has gone. The next challenge, I think, is to do what Pep has always sort of said very proudly about his team, that they don't,

drop off so much that top four is a struggle. And I mean, you mentioned it briefly. Do you think they will be more in a battle for the title this year or for second or third, say, you know, with Arsenal and Chelsea or for top four with Tottenham and Brighton and United and Nottingham Forest and these teams? I still think they'll be in a battle for second and third, but

but it's it's really hard to call and i think it's hard i don't know it feels hard to kind of get your head around what's happening you know we were talking for the game yesterday and i i was just saying i can't i can't write them off and you know you look at that team sheet and confidently predicted what would happen basically um and i just said i can just see i said it would feel very fitting of city to have all those great teams and great moments that have come there gone there and lost

that this team in a terrible moment goes there and gets a result. But then you see how the game pans out and you're like, oh yeah, that wasn't going to happen. So it's hard to write them off and say suddenly, yeah, they're vulnerable to Brighton or vulnerable to Manchester United. But things clearly need to change pretty quickly.

They're fifth at the moment. There's not a lot in it. But Arsenal have got their mojo back pretty clearly. Chelsea look really impressive this season. So I think you'd look at those three and Liverpool at the top and say those three are probably...

Looking good for top four at the very least. Liverpool and Arsenal, certainly. United under Amarim could be a threat. And that derby suddenly looms very large for City and very concerning. And, you know, it just makes Wednesday's game massive, doesn't it? Because they're playing the team right behind them.

who could leapfrog them. And you, you know, three months ago, you would have given Nottingham Forest between zero and 1% chance of winning at the Etihad. And now you look at it and you think, I mean, I look at it and I think City are obviously going to win that game. It's City against Nottingham Forest at the Etihad. Of course, they're going to win. But,

i don't know it feels like it's taking me longer to adjust to the fact that this is a new reality and maybe on the evidence of what we've watched recently they're not going to win clearly and if they do win it's going to be a fight and i think you'd have to presume i still believe that you know come april they won't be looking over their shoulders for top four they'll have enough of a gap that you'll think it this should be a formality though um but yeah like i don't think there's any way they get themselves back into the title race to be honest

um I'm not I'm not sure they could catch Arsenal um well there's only two points behind Arsenal I guess isn't it but you look at what Arsenal are doing at the moment and Arsenal have ridden out their difficult period and improved if City's continues any longer they're going to find themselves six eight ten points behind Arsenal going into the new year um so yeah things things need to change pretty quickly but it's a case of what what do you change because it you know maybe we'll come on to this but I feel like they're kind of

losing their way at the moment. You know, you mentioned the principles before and maybe Guardiola's trying so much at the moment to fix various issues in his team that it's all just become

a bit of a mess and you know it's like and for any football manager addicts out there it's like you pick your team for a game and they always have the players who played the last game in the positions and you have like nine set starters and you look at your last team right i took a couple out put a couple in needs to basically reset have a clean slate let's pick a fresh team and let's pick a team that feels more like you expect from city that feels more attacking

that has that usual midfield balance and maybe those players aren't up for it but if this is a transition season now then you know maybe it doesn't matter let's focus on getting at least one of savinia or doku in the team you know i thought it was interesting he hinted yesterday about greelish playing in the middle let's let's look at that then maybe get greelish and de bruyne in the team um and let's just try something different and maybe go back to those principles and that structure that we're so used to because it does kind of feel like they're losing their way at the moment yeah

It is interesting, sort of, again, Guardiola kind of did a really good job of 90% of his press conference being very positive. And it's clear he's never going to say, he's never going to go against the players that have won him six out of seven titles. But then it's those sort of throwaway or offhand comments that he weaves into

in and I think yesterday he said basically something like the club will make the decisions they need to in the summer and he talks a few times about rebuild and it's like yes that is what seems to be coming and what needs to be coming and you know before the game in his press conference Guardiola mentioned he was talking about players in the prime and he said okay maybe you know they're not

He's not 26, 27 or 28, but he can still do a job or anything like that. And the independence Richard Jolly, who is very good on detail, pointed out yesterday that I think City have three players in that bracket of players in their prime. One of those is Rodri.

who's out and will be 29 when he's back, although of course he is 28 until he is 29. Another is Ruben Diaz, which is fair enough. And another is Mateus Nunes, who is still yet to sort of deliver on his potential. So if you're looking at City's squad, they've got a lot of players who have won a lot of things already.

But they don't have sort of, you know, if you're looking at it from a data point of view, which they do and need to, there's a lot of sort of things that need a refresh. However, a bit of defiance from Guardiola sort of saying, you know, he wants his players back this season and he's convinced that if he has this squad available to him...

they will be able to sort of fight. And he was talking about, you know, being, being close to Arsenal as is. You think, well, if this is City at the worst and they're still close to Arsenal, they, they,

They have a chance. Ruben Diaz spoke to Norwegian broadcasters after the game and was very punchy. You know, got asked what they were doing to change things around and said, you know, you do realise you're speaking to a player from the team that's won the most in recent years. Like, maybe just accept that we know how to turn things around.

The questions keep coming because what you see on the pitch doesn't look like they know how to turn things around. But I think there's still a confidence that they will turn things around. And maybe it's a bit like 19-20 season when Liverpool streak away with it. But City have a very respectable season. But...

what comes next feels like they need a big rebuild, but do they try and accelerate that? Do they need a jumpstart in January to sort of get this team going again? Yeah, you know, I think they definitely do need a jumpstart in January. I think they need a midfielder at the very least. I mean, you look at it and you can argue they need someone in midfield defence and attack at the very least. I don't think they're going to get all three in January, but

it needs to be jump-started because they have you know they have neglected strengthening this squad and i know guardia likes to work with a small squad but it feels like they've not planned ahead they've not kind of assessed this moment and yeah yes you know diaz was punchy and that's fine but

We could be speaking to Ruben Diaz when he's 45 and he could still be saying, I'm someone from the team that's won the most. Doesn't mean he's still got a role to play. And obviously this is not on him. You know, that was his first game back yesterday. He is a leader in there. He is arguably the next captain in that team, I think. And the captaincy is maybe something that is going to need to be assessed the way things are going. But just because you've won all that doesn't matter. It was in the past. And that is...

It doesn't mean it's forgotten. It doesn't mean it's worthless. But this is elite level sport. It's the highest level of sport. It doesn't matter what happened six months ago. It doesn't happen what happened six weeks ago. It's now. It was Wednesday that you need to deliver. It was Sunday that you need to deliver. And at the moment, it's not happening. And that is the risk with City, that they're in this position now because they've kind of

have that attitude of this is the greatest team that English football has ever seen. Yes, it is, but it's not always going to be... Those same players aren't always going to be the greatest team English football has ever seen. They're not going to be the greatest team English football has ever seen when they're all 40. So at some point, you do need to refresh it and it feels like it's been left too long. It feels...

You look at the last few transfer windows now, and I think we said it at the time, I mean, what was the point in signing? And I still don't really grasp the idea of signing Matthias Nunes. And yes, he's been better this season, but in a season that's been difficult and easier for an individual player to shine in, I think that playing him on the wing has run its course, to be honest. Yeah.

Did you need to sign Kovacic and Gundogan in successive seasons? I mean, Gundogan was an opportunity that presented itself. I think we, you know, to be fair, we all said that was probably a good idea in the summer, but maybe it's a good idea if you're signing someone younger as well. You just add into an age profile of a squad that is past its peak, essentially. And I think that's the case. And,

Rich Jolly is right that there is. This is a two-tier squad. It's a tier of squad, players that are nearing the end and players that are just at the beginning. And of those just at the beginning, Haaland is obviously up there, the real deal now. I think Foden's not having a good season, hasn't yet really hit his stride, but obviously is at his best. Savinho and Doku, I think they're both really promising players, but they need to deliver more. I think that's pretty clear. They've both had good moments, but

That output in the final third from both of them has got to get an awful lot better. So it feels like a real two-tier squad where it's players with potential who aren't there yet and players who have done it all but might be just starting to go down the other side of the hill. And that is a problem. And, you know, that rebuild needs to happen. It needs to start happening in January, I think. They do need to make something happen at the very least.

Ty, it's been as pleasurable as looking over a miserable defeat can be. We will be back probably later this week after the Nottingham Forest game, after fifth takes on sixth in the Premier League, which nobody thought we would be saying. But there we go. Thank you for listening. I hope there was some...

usefulness in there or therapy or maybe a bit of optimism or reality, whatever, whatever you needed after your annual dose of Anfield. And yeah, please leave us a review and don't forget to listen to the next one as well. And hopefully we'll be talking about the end of a slump rather than the end of an era.

And, yeah, thank you for listening, and we'll be back later this week.