PL Christmas Lists, Rashford's Future & Scholes' Favourite Goals | The Overlap Fan Debate
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Is Rashford that good that you're actually going to lose that much by him not playing? It feels like the end for him. He doesn't look happy, the lad. The spontaneity that Niamh was referring to there is

is what makes football so beautiful. Are we using me to know? No. It's just a struggle to see City at the minute. It's not a struggle, it's brilliant to be fair. We survived ten minutes and no one said a word to me. I've just been sat here quiet. But with where we are at right now, I don't see us winning the league. And yous all went on your TV channel and made sure he never got the job. I didn't. Any England ones? England. No, we f***ed.

Hello and welcome back to the Fan Debate brought to you by Skybet and I'm joined by my Fan Debate partner in crime. Feels like it. So we should be going to get to the weekend, shouldn't we? Yeah. Are you feeling on the back of that? You seem quite excited on your Instagram stories. Did I? I can't remember. No, brilliant. Obviously it wasn't the greatest of games, I don't think, but when there's a way to win it, I think that's probably the best way. I don't think there's much quality in the game, probably the

Probably one of the worst derbies we've seen for quite some time from both teams. But, of course, I think Diallo was really good on the day. He was probably United's best player, which probably wasn't that difficult. And as we all know, City have got some problems. We talk all the time, we've said it on air many times, about United being easier to play against. I think City have almost become that team. You think of Pep's team, you always think about possession, keeping the ball, but more than that,

how quickly do you used to win the ball back? I think that's gone. I think that ziff of the legs. Can you get it back this season? Erm...

Obviously, Rodri's not going to be back. Can John Stones help with that? Is he someone who's similar to that position? I'm not sure because he can't quite stay fit. You just don't see where them legs are coming from. There's the kid Lewis who should be able to get around a pitch at his age, but with the rest of them, it just seems like...

there's an ageing to him and something that Pep's going to have to address. Well, two players who have got decent legs for Manchester United but they weren't allowed to show it at the weekend, Garnaccio and Rashford. What were your thoughts on that?

we don't know we're not privy to what happens behind the scenes and on the training pitch it obviously feels that it feels the dedication towards it isn't quite there whether they're not training right how many times are you going to say this about Rashford I feel like he had this under 10 there was a game at Wolves I think yeah I remember yeah where he never played and he's been away when Amarum's just over the mic I mean this feels like a recurring theme with him

Yeah, look, it feels like the end for him. He doesn't look happy, the lad, when he's playing, even if he's scoring a goal. You're thinking, what's wrong with him? Is he getting the right support behind the scenes? I don't know. And you're right, it did happen with Tana. I think he was late for a meeting, wasn't he, at the Wolves game. And again, he's been left out of this squad. I just think he's on and off the choice...

on and off the field choice at the minute are just not quite right. Adam, what are your thoughts on Garnaccio and Rashford? Scoles, you just said he thinks it's the end. I think the same. Are you of that mind frame? I'm a little bit torn on it. I'm a big fan of Marcus Rashford so I've got a lot of time for him. I think when he's flying and he's on form I think he's a fantastic player and obviously he comes through the academy. He's one of our own. You want to see players like that doing well but he's not

But it's been sad to kind of watch him play without a smile on his face now. I think a lot of this, that it was a survey and I think he was like one of the most criticised footballers or athletes on social media worldwide up there with like LeBron James and stuff like that. And I think some of the criticism he gets, I mean, you know, he's got the right wing press on him as well because of what he did in terms of like helping kids want food and stuff like that, which is mental, but...

I think there's a player there and I think I want to see Marcus Rashford playing with a smile on his face again for Manchester United. It'd be so disappointing to see him leave and rediscover himself, find his form. But like you say, he's not playing with a smile on his face. At times it looks like he doesn't want to be there. And it could be a case that he needs a fresh start, United need a fresh start and it's best for him to move on. But you look at his record, I think six players have scored more Premier League goals for him for Manchester United than him. So it's disappointing to see that happening with him

But he's got to get it right. He's got to start training right. And I think Ruben Amorim's shown that if you're not performing, you're not training, you're not going to get into the team. Do you know what? You know when I was watching the game and Ruben Amorim had made the decision and managers always make this decision. Every manager, especially at a big club, comes in and does something early on and everyone goes, oh, he's showing the dressing room and all that. I actually think it was the biggest open goal for the manager to make himself look strong. Because if I'm being honest with you, I'm...

is Rashford that good that you're actually going to lose that much by him not playing so it's not like you're leaving out your top man and it's going to affect your team but you're then sending a message to the team

I'm not sure he's in the best team, actually. So I think it was brilliant for the managers to do it. Everyone's talking about it because Rashford's always a huge talking point. But I don't think it actually took anything away from the team. My thing with Rashford is... You've just mentioned LeBron James. I think we talk about Rashford too much and I know we are talking about it on this show. Yeah, we're not talking about Guy Nacho, we're talking about him. I know, but it's like...

I don't think he's that good a player for the amount of times that we spend probably talking about him and the attention he gets. That's my feeling. It's not like Beckham. When Beckham was, and he was maybe having a bit of a thing with Ferguson, but it was Beckham. He was, you know, he's a brilliant, amazing player. He was a big name in the papers. But he's not even in the England squad. I think when you look at the pressure he's under, and I think a lot of people compare it to the pressure that Scholesy would have faced or Giggs or Rooney or whoever,

But one of the things, two things, they didn't have to deal with social media, which I think is massive. And to say players don't look at it would be a lie. I think they clearly do. They're well aware of what's going on. They're well aware of how they're perceived in public. But also when Scolzi and Giggs and all these players were going through bad times,

They had Sir Alex Ferguson there as the figurehead of the club. They had a dressing room full of captains, full of leaders, someone that would pull you into line if you're falling out of favour or if you were doing things wrong off the pitch. I think it's kind of like a symptom of the problems that have been at the club for so long, the culture at the club, and we have to change that. But it does feel like...

maybe too much has gone on. But again, I kind of say like, I want to see Rashford playing for Manchester United. I want to see him succeeding at the club. And that's why it kind of disappoints me a little bit. And it would be a sad thing to see him leave. I'm a big fan of his and when he's on form, he's absolutely fantastic. But we haven't seen it for 18 months. I agree. I agree, Adam, with that. I hate seeing local lads leave, you know, especially when they're so time and when people like Danny Welbeck and them will left and just...

cast aside a little bit but I think the thing with Marcus he was that good two years ago he had that season where he scored 30 goals he just never managed to get to that level again and that's why he gets the sticks he produced a standard

And now, for the last two years, 18 months, two years, whatever it's been, he's just nowhere near that. It looks like he's got the weight of the world on his shoulders all the time. It looks like he's got the weight of the world. And it's like, I don't want to speculate on what's going on off the pitch, but he does just look like he's... There's something not right. Whether it's the support system around him, I don't know. But there's something definitely not right. And that's one of the things United was about, like protecting your own, making sure, you know,

Fergie would tell the journalists to piss off and everyone else. He'd protect everyone and rally around the troops. I tweeted the other day, I thought it'd be ridiculous to sell him. I got loads of abuse for supporting him. I thought, this is mental. Really and truly, we should be behind him. How long do you think he'd go on now? You can't be worried about him going to another club and actually starting to produce. There's every chance that could happen.

But he's not doing it for us now and it's been 18 months, two years. I also think that the set-up of the manager, there isn't really a winger in that system. Rashford's suit's having his back to go and I think a lot of the time whether he played centre forward, I think Hoyland's better than him in that position. And those two number 10 positions, I don't really see him. He's not going to play wing-back. I just think the whole set-up really of this manager and suit, I think probably best for all parties that he probably...

Moved on. But Niamh, I want to come to you. You watched the game on TV. You weren't at the game. So what were your thoughts when you watched it from both teams' points of view? The big thing for me with City was we've watched those City defenders especially sort of play slightly different each game in the last sort of five, ten games where Pep's changing it up. I think Walker obviously was a bit close to the centre-backs and he's been hugging the sidelines in previous games. Nunes obviously at left-back.

But a lot of them, when I watched them, there was that one where Rasmus, when he was running into the box and nearly got the penalty. If you look at the other side of the City defence, one of the players wasn't even looking at what was going on with the game. He was looking at where he should be and they were sort of talking to each other. And it got me thinking, I wonder how well those players actually know where they're supposed to be on the pitch for City. And that's such a big part of our pet plays. And I wonder with you guys,

If you go through tough spells and the manager's changing it, how much does the manager convey to you as to why you're playing where you are to help you understand it? Well, Scores, you played for Alex Fagin, probably the only other manager who could go up against Pep, if you like, and serial winner. But when you're going through a spell like this and you've sort of never really experienced it before, I mean, did you ever have spells like that at United, what we're seeing now at City? Yeah.

I was trying to remember, I don't think I've ever seen anything like this. Was it eight in 11 games that they've lost or something? I remember we lost three games on the spin once and that was when people were injured. I think Ryan might have ended up playing centre-half or something. And it felt like a crisis and it was a crisis. Manchester United, you're expected to...

to win every week and I've heard people say now that there still isn't a crisis for Man City it is it definitely is you're an absolute mess and the manager's got to find some way out of it but when that happened to you at United what you said then you're talking maybe Roy Keane at times going to centre back would the manager maybe try and do something different to try and get you out of the trough that you were in

I think he would, yeah, but... He pulled you out of retirement at one point, didn't he? That was one thing he tried. I can't wait to see that, could I? It nearly worked as well. But yeah, a lot of managers try to find ways, don't you? You probably had it in your dressing room, you're having meetings, the players start having meetings together, trying to thrash it out, trying to see what's happening. Sometimes you just don't know, you have to rely on the players to...

to get it out of the mess. The one message that the manager always said, he never panicked about it. It was always keep everything simple. If you were going through a bad spell, farm yourself. If your team was going through a bad spell, keep it simple. Do everything, the simple things really well and eventually it'll come back, that confidence comes back.

It's just a struggle to see City at the minute. It's not a struggle, it's fucking brilliant to be fair. I've survived 10 minutes, no one's said a word to me, I've just been sat here quiet. I can't see any light at the end of the tunnel. I think I've got Villa at the weekend. Yeah. I think Villa at the weekend and again, I don't see... 12.30 is where it stinks, that, the net. I don't see where the net's winds coming from at this point. There'll be panic stations. Do you see where the next wind's coming from? Well, the thing is...

I've been at every one of them 11 games and every game I've thought, this will be the one, this will be the one. And I thought the United game would have been the start of something new and then you get to 87 minutes and it's just thrown it away. We've literally thrown it away. What happened then? Nunes happened, mate. The thing is as well, people give him a lot of stick. He's genuinely, he's been one of the standout, for me anyway, he's been one of the standout performers from a perspective. He's had to fill in left, right and centre. He's not been playing his natural role. This guy this season, I think it's been decent, Nunes. I think he's been all right.

but he's going to get a lot of stick and you know what I don't think he deserves it but that's what he did he piled into him for no reason what's he doing he's lost the ball you don't need to make a foul there I think the danger had gone a little bit and he's just disaster how bad does it have to get before you start questioning the manager he's not he could finish 17th for me and he's not going one thing about Pep though is

Like when we spoke about Fergie then, obviously Fergie would lose his head at times on the sidelines, but Pep seems to be really affected by what's going on. Like normally you see the manager kind of rise above it and kind of show that they're still in control, but he seems to be really impacted. He said the other day that I will fix it. I quite like that. I like that he's involved as well. If he didn't care, he'd be like, what's he doing here? Do you know what I mean? And obviously I'd never say that as a City fan, but...

He's here and I'm confident he's going to fix it. He didn't get particularly backed in the previous window. As I said... I don't think Pep Guardiola would complain about not getting backed. Jamie spent less than Birmingham City in the last summer. No, he had a decent team. Probably didn't need as much as Birmingham City. Well, the decent team, we've lost...

Rodri and Foden's not been out this season and you look at him now and we've got three fit defenders for the United game. He wants a small squad though, doesn't he? That's partly his own... He does, but recently he said maybe that's not the way to go anymore. He got all these games. We're going to play 75 games this season and...

Losing 8 out of 11 can be that too. Yeah. You won't play 75 to carry on the way you are, will you? Well, we've got the Club World Cup, so I don't think United... We've got Salford in the FA Cup. Yeah, we'll probably lose that one. Do you think the way he has those players, the way he...

Has players playing so specific and set to a certain style has almost come back to haunt him now, though, because in games where that United City game was so... It just cried out for someone like Ahmad to just do something, be a man, be that difference maker. And yet City have got all these talented players, but...

like Grealish at no point did it look like he would do that but we know that he's capable of it. We did it last night on the TV tier and we looked at that where the first goal actually comes from Grealish turning down the opportunity to run at Bruno Fernandes from the corner where it comes from and something like that of when you look at certain players

you almost feel at times Pep is that in control of him I mean how can you criticise Pep Guardiola but it's almost like they lose that little bit of something and Thierry Henry made the point last night that

He played in that position for him, for Barcelona on the wing. And he said, sometimes, though, you've just got to... He's telling you what to do, he's behind you, but sometimes you've just got to, no, I want to do this. You've got to actually feel it yourself. And I think it is sad watching Jack Elish in a Manchester City shirt. Listen, he's won the treble, he'll be remembered forever, but you do feel like, just go and be yourself, do something. Is that what you're talking about? Yeah, and I think as well, I think because...

There's a bit of a transition with City with their attacking players. Like Savinho on the other side, Doku. They've kind of been unfortunate with the timing that the attackers they've got, they're not used to all this winning that the other City attackers had. So they might not have the confidence to do that, what you're saying. And they might just be thinking, what would Pep want me to do? Because you don't really want to go against him. That's where the players around him, he's got brilliant experience. I've been used to that for the last six or seven years. You think De Bruyne is going to win it.

who came back Phil Foden has been successful Harlan brilliant centre forward you not think the recruitment has been poor though the last couple of years which is weird for City but sort of like losing Mahrez he was in them games maybe not against United but a lot of games he'd come on and score or he'd play losing Cole Palmer I mean Cole Palmer is the one where you look and go how did anyone allow him to go out the club it's bizarre

you know, they've lost people like Fer and Torres over to St. Gondouan. People don't talk about Cancelo as well. Think about how good he was two or three years ago. He wouldn't have even... He didn't like him, did he? He fell out. He fell out, but he's still got to be replaced. He's still got to be replaced and he was a great player. And Alvarez. Yeah, Alvarez. A lot of your key players as well, like Bernardo Silva...

Gundogan, De Bruyne, Kyle Walker, I think they've been literally moved away for a long time. Kyle Walker's about to go to Sheffield United not long ago and Bernardo Silva's wanted out for a while. De Bruyne, there's been question marks about him. You bring Gundogan back from...

sunny Spain and he probably don't want to be there. I think the thing is with Gundogan as well, he's come back expecting to play 30 games and he's been put in the team every week. The Rodri injury, obviously a lot has stemmed from that. It's not just that that's the issue but again, like you said, the recruitment for me. It is a shame though, isn't it? You know the spontaneity? It's not necessarily a shame for their demise. I'm thoroughly enjoying that but you know just for the individual players involved.

like the spontaneity that Niamh was referring to there is what makes football so beautiful are you using me to know? no I'm keeping her on side but you know like that spontaneity that's the artistry of football and it's beautiful somebody does something unpredictable sorry what's said about it?

It's sad because Jack Grealish, if we use him as an example here, he could be doing something historic in a Manchester derby that would live forever. Your moment when you scored in the cup and they brought you out of retirement and you had to buy boots in Sports Direct or whatever. So the legend goes. Paul Pogba stopped Man City winning the league by scoring for Manchester United. You can remember moments. Sean Wright Phillips pinging him in. You're under one after 12 seconds. Exactly. You have those moments that live forever and that's football. That's what it's about. Jack Grealish, I think, is capable of that. He hasn't scored for over a year.

but we know he's capable don't we it's kind of tactical it's as if his wings have been clipped and I think that's sad yeah yeah as a player you sometimes have to forget what your manager's saying and I know it's that's what he said last year yeah I think sorry I didn't say it you weren't listening no I was watching Fleetwood but erm

But you just have to forget about it. Even sometimes when you're going for a really bad run, as some players are, you've just got to take responsibility for yourself and try and remember what you used to do that was good. And you think of Jack Griever, especially at Aston Villa. Look, he's had times at Man City where he's been around. As you say, he's not scored a goal for a year or had an assist. I don't think. He has to look back and think,

What was I good at? He was brilliant at going people, bouncing the ball off the centre forward, hitting the ball into the top corner. So sometimes what your manager says to you, just forget it. And I don't like to admit that because, you know, Sir Alex Ferguson, but when you're going through a bad patch, sometimes just take responsibility yourself and say, this is up to me. He can't come out on a pitch.

and play for me he can help me as much as he wants from there but I have no one who's got to go out and do it Is there a lack of responsibility so I think you said the stat about Grealish Phil Foden I think has scored one Premier League goal Is it responsibility? Something's been really strange with Phil Foden this year he hardly played a game in the first part of the season now you're expecting him just to come back in and be the same Phil Foden that there has been and again when you're that type of player you'd call Phil Foden number 10 wouldn't you?

You need that solidity behind you if you're going to flourish. And that's where we all know that Rodri's been missing.

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Right, we're going to get to Christmas now. We've got a few Christmas hats on that. So we're going to play a little game, All You Want For Christmas. So Gareth, I'm going to start with you. What do you want for Christmas? The title. That's it. I mean, you know, Liverpool won the league in my lifetime, in my match-going lifetime, if you want to call it that.

but we were on that superb charge in the COVID season, 26 out of 27, and then we didn't get to do the good bit at the end. And my lad now has really got into going the game as well. I want him to see that.

So, nothing more than that. You know, like, now we are where we are and I know we've drawn a couple of games and Chelsea are getting excited. But I want us to go on and win that and I want to see us do it, see us lift the trophy, see it be in the ground and it not be that sort of slightly strange season that we had last time. It's,

I'm the same as you. The title feels so important for Liverpool this season and you almost want to really explain that to the manager. That's what I want to feel. I feel like I want to just get on and say, listen, forget the FA Cup lark and the Carabao Cup. Honestly, I can assure you every Liverpool fan is not bothered about them this season. You're in a position where

decent lead, it looks like City are not going to be involved, you fancy you can take on Arsenal or Chelsea. That's the feeling with the fan base, isn't it? Get the cups. Yeah, I mean, this morning he was talking about Diogo Jota not being available for Southampton in the Carabao Cup and I was made up. Don't want him to play in it because I would rather see Diogo Jota playing at the weekend in a league game that's way more important. We know what his injury record's like, we know he can pick up knocks.

don't play them in the Carabao Cup if we can win the Carabao Cup essentially playing the resis or lads who are in and around the squad then sound and that would be great but it's so far not a priority now we've got to where we've got to and you know everyone always says if you're there or there about to Christmas you've got a chance and we are I want to see them strengthen in January where? I want to see them absolutely where do you want to see them strengthen?

Yeah, left-back's the obvious one, isn't it? I think, you know, it's really hard for me, I've got to be honest, to talk about Robbo at the moment because I absolutely love the fella. He's been brilliant for Liverpool. And I think it's hard as a fan to sort of detach yourself from the character, the man you've known, all the stuff he's done for Liverpool. He's the fella for me that, if you said, go for a pint with anyone in Liverpool's squad right now, I'd want to go with Robbo. And so to start saying...

actually he might be dropping off a little bit here now he's 30 now he's 31 he needs help doesn't he yeah I mean you've just said something about he can't play every game Andy Robertson's there now Simicast is injured he's not at the level we know that but in terms of Andy Robertson he's just playing too much football you know he can still do that thing of 15-20 games a season but he just needs help in January Klopp said it didn't he when he was here he said you know the style that he had his full backs playing in

He said, you can't play them 50-odd games a season. If you look at Robbo's record in the eight years he's been here...

He's played 50-odd games a season, nearly four or five out of those seasons. So he's run a lot. He's been up and down a lot. And I think if it starts to take its toll a little bit when he's nearly 31, that's absolutely fair enough. So get some younger legs in. Get some good younger legs in, as you say, better than Simakas as well. That would be the priority. I'd still like one in midfield as well if we could. I'm worried about Gravenberg because...

He's playing every minute of every game, nearly enough. He took them off against Newcastle because he looked laggy. But he was looking laggy because of what I've just said. He's started every Premier League game, every Champions League game. He's been absolutely brilliant. I don't actually think he's been that bad, you know.

Who? Robertson. I know he's made a couple of mistakes. Maybe he's got a big owner. Yeah, which was only the other day. No, I don't actually think he's been that bad. And he looks the type of player I know we spoke about earlier in the season as well because he was in and out a little bit on this one. I think he's the type of player that needs to play every week. I think he's just having that thing, Scorsese, where I've been there as a player, and Gary speaks about this a lot, full-back is the one area you can get really exposed where you almost feel alone. At centre-back, you're OK. You can get a midfield player and you can just...

Sometimes you can be left alone out there and I think it's that thing of not even that he has been that bad but the more people talk about it, you think the opposition and think, oh, it gets in your head and then, oh, we'll target that side. So you're actually getting asked a lot more questions than you normally would do because this narrative starts especially...

around defenders when you get to a certain age I had it people keep telling you every time you had a bad game it's because of your age and you're thinking I had loads of bad games when I was 23 you know it's just but when that narrative starts and people start speaking about it it gets in your head it gets in the players you're playing with well that's what teams are doing they start targeting it even if it might not be a weakness

But just because of what's happening to him now, and he's making mistakes, people are just going to tagler every other time. We'll try and edit this bit out so he doesn't see it. Sorry, Robbo. Charlene, what do you want for Christmas?

What we've been asking for for some time, a striker. That is what we need desperately. As we've seen, you know, we've been getting most of our joy from corners, our open play. We just ain't been able to score goals and it's been a concern for some time and it still is. So, yeah, a striker is definitely what we need desperately.

Do you think it's necessarily a striker or just another top attacking player? Because I look at Martinelli and I actually think probably three years ago when this team was just getting built, it felt like Odegaard and Saka and Martinelli were all sort of like almost at the same sort of level, looking like they could go on and become top players. I think the other two have. I'm not sure about Martinelli's score. What are your thoughts? It feels like it's gone backwards a little bit. You thought a year, 18 months ago, wow.

What a player and he has stalled a little bit. How old is he now? Is he 24, 25? Yeah, around that. He's still young, isn't he? We said, we think it was the pre-season centre-forward was always something that we felt Arsenal needed and for some reason I don't think the manager did. Then we all thought that older guys coming back into the team would create more stardom. I think he has made them a better team and I think eventually they will be okay but you...

you'd have to say in January he'd be looking for but January's so hard he's out there yeah what are you thinking Shelley and what name well we have we were looking at Ivan Tony the fact that you know he's Premier League proven but obviously he's gone over to Saudi um

Just someone who is going to finish and score goals. In terms of Martinelli, he has been quite hit and miss because he goes through patches where he's amazing and then he has a bad game. Then we bring in Trossard and then there's the question of, OK, are we better off starting Trossard because he's effective? Then he'll have a bad game. He looks a better sub Trossard, doesn't he? Yeah, he's better off coming off the bench. And then he sort of makes that statement...

You know, when he does come off the bench and he scores a goal, you see from his body language and everything that it's like, well, I should be starting. But then he does get the start and then the quality just isn't there. And I can also see why we haven't gone in for a striker because there were patches where we were able to just score from different positions in the pitchers.

from different areas, but that seems to have dropped off. Martin Odegaard, who he's come back from injury and he's had some chances that he should be putting away again. Do you think if you don't address that in January, do you think...

Do you think the league's gone? Do you think you're capable of winning the league with the squad you have right now? If I'm being completely honest, normally I'm very optimistic and I have belief and faith in the team. But with where we are at right now, I don't see us winning the league. I think it's, yeah, we're just way off winning the league.

unless we do get a striker. And also it's the mentality as well. You know, we don't look like the same team that we looked like last season, where we showed that passion, that hunger, like we really wanted to go for it and win it. We're not really showing that this season. I don't know if it's because of the injuries that we've been faced with that's sort of having that detrimental effect.

and you don't even know if players are playing with injuries as well. Mikel Arteta spoke about Declan Rice being subbed off because he's still got a bit of a niggle. So, you know, players are playing probably not at full fitness, so that's another concern, and the squad is quite light. I think it's a challenge for the elite. I think you need goals from everywhere. Literally. I don't see them coming from the midfield area for Arsenal. You think...

I remember we did something with Gary and you saw Declan Rice could be that man to go and get you 10, 15 goals. I've never actually seen it and I don't see where, other than Saka probably scoring, Havert seems to have dried up as well. I think all the guys are still getting their chances and I think eventually the quality he's got, he is going to contribute but...

I think they all have to contribute. Like I say, the midfield players, it's all right to play in midfield, but at some point you've got to try and affect a game. I think too many times these midfield players are just there to stay there, try and control the game, help defence the game.

But when you're a midfield player, it's every aspect of the game. You've got to try and sometimes... Someone different's got to try and win a game for you. And they don't seem to be thinking about that. They think, I'll play my position, I'm all right. Not taking responsibility. To win a league, everyone has to contribute and I don't think they all are. Older guards created the most chances, I think, in open play since he'd come back. I saw that doing this before our game the other day, thinking, marvellous. But...

definitely a striker for me even an option you look at Havertz and you're like he's decent but is he very you're never ever winning you're never winning a Premier League if that but you need you need even an option off the bench though it's like I was looking at and I know I'm going to say this but he doesn't score goals anyway but Dominic Calvert-Lewin has been mentioned with Arsenal it's like

he's something that Arsenal wouldn't have like a powerful number nine or something if you're creating chance we haven't even got that option like the other day I think Arsenal will click eventually yeah I think I'd be more worried if they weren't creating chances and I still think you're getting a chance and I think players will end up scoring goals for us still like us on the road from a Liverpool point of view I would say right now I'm probably still more worried about Arsenal than Chelsea I mean what would you say about that Rory we're talking about Christmas but I mean would you what

if we're clever in January and we go out and like for Christmas we end up getting a new goalkeeper when you say clever I thought you meant a couple of books or something no no whatever you've got to do to get you'll sell a hotel to yourselves yeah yeah absolutely you do what you've got to do yeah it's creative

If we can somehow manage our already voluminous goalkeeping situation and bring in a quality keeper, like genuinely non-negotiably good, not somebody where there's any jeopardy, just somebody who we know is proven Premier League quality. Haven't you got nine, Rory?

Seven, seven. Only seven? Only seven. I think you can only play one. No, but they're not... No, I agree. Nobody's good enough. They're just not good enough. And sometimes I think, and shows like this are great for it, like demonstrating the more cryptic side of football, like going deep and analysing the stats and whatever else. Sometimes it's a really easy game. And sometimes you just go, can you realistically win a league with Robert Sanchez as your goalkeeper? Give us a name of a keeper then.

I mean, it would be wild from Liverpool. Absolutely not. I mean, Chelsea have strengthened rivals. No, I know. Liverpool are very well run and I doubt they would do that. But there was a time, a decade or so ago, when I genuinely believed that Arsenal would win a league if they had a good goalkeeper. We sold them check. We facilitated that for them and ultimately they bottled it again. But I thought... What you just said then is...

When I think of teams who win the title, a goalkeeper is such a big... You think of where it started with United. We all talk about Cantona, but Schmeichel was just a massive... Liverpool teams, I played in... We never had a keeper who was on the level of a Schmeichel or a Van der Sar there or a Czech. Liverpool get... Alisson. You win the league. And that's my thing. Even how well Chelsea are playing, I think they've been so impressive this season. The attacking players, players off the bench...

I just can't picture that. Exactly. The goalkeeper lifting. It doesn't happen. And also the centre-backs. I don't think of that one, the John Terry figure, the, you know, the Vidic or the Ferdinand figure and the Van Dijk figure, the Ruben Diaz. I just don't see one of them at Chelsea. Did you see Wes Morgan at Leicester though? I know that that's, OK, that's the one. Yeah, it was such an anomaly though, wasn't it?

maybe it is that but that was like they won it with 77 points though didn't they but they also did also have Kasper Schmeichel who was very very yeah but I just that's the thing why I still think of Arsenal even though you use it in such better form the football you play and the goals you score I just keep thinking of what Arsenal did the second half of last season and thinking of scores he just said then

I'm almost waiting for that to come back at some stage. If we were to win the league this year with Robert Sanchez, it would be making history. We would be the first team to win the Premier League with a distinctly average goalkeeper. Nobody's done that. Schmeichel was mentioned there. And I thought Kasper Schmeichel... Kasper, sorry. Kasper Schmeichel, he is probably...

Him or Jens Lehmann, perhaps the worst goalkeeper to have ever been number one for a team that wins a league. And they were both fantastic. So that's the level that you have to be to be a goalkeeper that ultimately wins a Premier League. And Robert Sanchez is just a million miles from that. So if we're clever, and look, you do mention the centre-half issue. That's, you know, if I could have two presidents.

Well, you can have two. Go on. We'll have a centre-half as well then. Why not? Yeah, it's my lucky day. We'll have a centre-half as well because I just think that we could do... I think Levi Colwell will be a very good player. He's good. He's the one that you'd nail. Do you know what I feel like both of our centre-halves are? You know the way that...

When, say, Gary Cahill was playing with John Terry, Gary Cahill looked a far better player than when he played without John Terry. Yeah, yeah, yeah. What we have is two Gary Cahills, both very good, both very capable. They need to play with the... If the timing was slightly different, if it was Levi Colwell and Thiago Silva, all of a sudden the back line elevates to a totally different degree. Yeah.

Baz, you must want a lot for Christmas, come on. Always want a lot. A win. A win I'll do. One of your games in a year. New owners. One of your games. Stadium. No, but listen, the new owners are coming in this week, which is good. Obviously that'll calm a lot of things because there's been so much uncertainty. They're not always great, as Salford have put it. They're not always great, but obviously we've had uncertainty for...

over two years now and that's not good for anybody so that's obviously better the ground and all that but you've got to start winning games of football you know we've won eight games in a year eight

I think Liverpool won 12 or something this season, we've won 8 in a year, so clearly winning more games of football is what I'm looking for. And a white Christmas, that'd be nice. What's the feeling right now with the manager? Is there a feeling that you respect the job that he's done, but going into a new stadium, it feels to me, only when I maybe see you or social media, there's a feeling that you want a fresh start when you go to a new stadium. Is that fair on Sean Dyche?

I think he's obviously come into the club at a difficult time it doesn't matter whether you like him or you dislike him you can't say he's had an easy time but the thing that annoys me we got 48 points last season forget the points the Dutchman's won 48 points last season which put them above Brighton and Brentford and Fulham and all of these clubs and yet Forest and I've heard any of those clubs talk about relegation and on day one he was talking about being in a relegation fight and it

He then bemoaned selling Amadou Onana if he didn't play. So he wanted to sell him, he didn't like him. Oh, exactly, he didn't like him, so he didn't play him. But then he bemoaned him. You know what I mean? It's that kind of thing of almost engineering that back in so I can achieve what my goal is kind of thing. I don't really like that. So I think where I am with it is I...

just expecting new owners to replace him soon anyway because that's everywhere throughout history when new owners go into a building they want to put their own mark on it so therefore that's what I think you know when you say the manager as well but obviously the sporting director is Kevin Thelwell you know what I think about Sean Dice and Everton from when he came in any player he's bought virtually they're still not really in his first 11 maybe N'Diaye this season but if you go Pickford was there before he came in

the left back Michalenko was there Branthwaite was there Tarkovsky was there Dwight McNeil was there Calvert-Lewin was there Decorey was there was Guy there Guy had been there before no no Guy was there Michael Keane was already there but the the

they haven't spent loads of money you've bought a lot of players he's had I think he's had there's about 5 or 6 players about 15 to 20 million they don't they don't play no well it was like that was the frustration again at the summer we spent 15 million on O'Brien but he didn't get near it and you think the strike activity 15, 30 million on Beto it's like hmm

Tumiti was 12 but I have to put sorry it's not you no no it's important but Stephen Warner I don't know whether he can add up or not was making all kinds of numbers up apparently so Beto was 26 Tumiti was 12 however the point still stands doesn't it Tumiti's one who I think they think will be denied they give massive hopes for him at the club he's played about four games no I know but he's a young player I'm saying that's what the Opie develops into Beto

they got basically let's have it right they got him because he could get him for nothing basically we'll pay you next year and when there's no money you get what you can but that it hasn't worked it hasn't worked and there's too many of them where you go yeah we spent money and not big amounts but you know we did just put that to some pace because there's no pace on the side it's like you

You could have got someone who can run. Everybody else has got, you see teams roll up and they've got one or two. This squad though, I will say, and I've said it all along, this squad is good enough to be halfway up. No, are you? But halfway up shouldn't be only have won three games of football this season. It shouldn't have done. And yet when you, Saturday was the perfect game for Sean Dykes because that is like MO, that's where he's good at. He'll defend and he defended brilliantly. That's what he needs a pat on the back for.

I think people's issues is how long do you stay in a war mentality for? There's a lot of teams in this league where if you go after them, you beat them. And we don't. We always don't want the ball. And I think that's people's frustration. Not so much has he had a difficult time, because he has had that. It's been difficult. It's been uncertainty, but...

there's a time you'd have to go, no, we have to move forward. We can't keep putting ourselves back to day one of wartime mentality. His first thought is always, let's not get beat. Yeah, I think he'd take 38-0-0 if it was offered for him. And you'd be safe. But I do, and that's not a bad thing. You can't expect him, if he's done that all his career, expecting him to play like...

Ozzy Ardeelis years ago with nine up front and one up the back you know what I mean it's not going to happen so getting frustrated with that doesn't really change anything that's just where it was but I actually think these have had four managers already this season at Roma so I think they'll come in and go we actually want to move things on and I think that's what will happen and

Dave the Wolves fan have you had your Christmas present with the new manager coming in Pereira similar to Baz to be fair win would be nice but Premier League survival for us is key the manager's an interesting one don't know a hell of a lot about him got an interesting CV been here sorry can I just jump in is

is he the guy who yeah he went on Sky Sports he's the guy who gave a car crash of an interview and choked himself out the Everton and yous all went on your TV channel and made sure he never got the job I didn't I didn't the fella only done an interview there was a lot of fallout from it yeah but he also likes wearing the captain's armband on his yeah no I listened to that on the way up because I thought it was a couple of years ago now but I remember the Everton fans had graffitied Pereira out and Lampard in but here and out he wasn't even in yeah

the interview was strange really strange almost to sell himself but look he's had a lot of success but that was almost 10 years ago you know his one league titles in Portugal Greece Turkey and

But I think defensively, he's a lot better, you know, in terms of structuring the team than what Gary O'Neill has been this season. It's been an absolute disaster. Defensively, we've set pieces in particular. You see the numbers of goals that we've conceded. Saturday again, Ipswich had to win that game. We were poor for 75 minutes, get ourselves back in the game, then, what, 93rd minute, conceding another corner. And when your head coach is in the interview after sort of throwing his players under the bus almost for not listening to his instructions, it's...

going to only end one way really but the last time I was on here it was the last international break he could have gone then so he survived a hell of a lot longer than I expected him to to be honest but I think with the way the club are structuring things at the moment financially with transfers there's a lot of big managers that turn the job down so they've almost had to wait for the right man

well, right man, I say, to take the job. But probably not the standard the manager of Wolves would have wanted. But it's going to be interesting to see how it goes. I think it's either going to go very well, keep us up, or it's going to be an absolute disaster and we struggle to buy a win for the rest of the season. No matter who the manager is, though, you're going to have to buy in January, isn't it? I mean, we looked at the players that you lost over the last sort of 18 months. It's off the scale. Some of the players you've lost, if you'd have kept them players together, it's a mid-table Premier League team now. You know, you look at some of the players that you've got. And...

I think it was always going to be tough for Gary. Of course, you lose it to a lone-trip switch. You're going to probably be in trouble if you're in the bottom three. But you're going to have to really reinvest in January because that's not something I think a coach comes in and fixes easy. No, no, of course. I think defenders are the main one as well. They tried to be quite clever. Obviously, Kilman was moved on but then we had Muscara come back from a loan spell and I thought, oh, straight swap. He does his ACL, he's out for the season. The

The issue with Gary O'Neill really as well is that he's had a few injuries and suspensions with the back line, but he keeps chopping and changing it all the time. Under Nuno years ago, he's back free and he would stick to it. If someone dropped a stink, he'd still be in for the next game. We had that stability. Whereas Gary O'Neill, if a player has a poor game, he's dropped. And then three weeks later, when another defender has a poor game, another one's in. There was no stability with that whatsoever. But January, you've got to hope, and it's such a tough window. I think last January was really, really tricky. Yeah.

but someone has got to be ready 1st of January I know it's not as easy as that but walls can't be scattered around at the end of the transfer window looking to bring players in it's got to be now and defender and hopefully one or two other players I think the squad that we've got there now is more than capable of staying in the Premier League it's just up to this new guy now and hopefully we can kick off with three points at the weekend Greg Forrester you're happy with what you've got haven't you needed anything? Yeah I mean Christmas came early one at Anfield one at Old Trafford so we've got everything you haven't mentioned that everything we want

And it sounds like a lot of these want some of our players as well. We've got one of the best full-backs in the league, strikers just doing unbelievable. But for me, it's more long-term. We need to redevelop the city ground. It's been talked about for years now. Plans seem to be getting closer, but...

What part of the ground are you talking about? That A block? The Peter Taylor stand, yeah, you know the A block well, don't you? Yeah, yeah, yeah. They're lively in there, aren't they? Yeah, it's good. Always welcome. You're always welcome to come back. But, yeah, it's been close. We've seen the plans for so many years now. The old chairman's come back in. I'm hoping that's a good sign.

And just get it redeveloped. We call it the world-famous City Ground and make it world-famous and ready for potential European football. So it's not about buying players anymore? Has that all stopped now? Well, I mean, we've done it well, haven't we? Well, I mean, exactly. I think last season you were delighted that you broke the rules, weren't you? And, you know, you bought all those players. Even more so now. It's been proven that more teams should maybe follow that lead rather than your Sheffield United, Southampton's teams like that that...

maybe it is the blueprint but for me it's just keep what we've got definitely keep what we've got in January we potentially do still need a striker I mean we could get a Marcus Rashford or someone like that but everybody wants a striker yeah well we certainly don't need one it would just be a nice city for us and like I say Ola Raiina is probably the

best free transfer we've ever had. I like him. Arguably one of the best free, isn't he? Yeah, he's fantastic. He plays left and right, doesn't matter which side. Just unbelievable this season. That's made a big difference as well. Milenkovic. Murillo's just destined for such a big career, but bringing in Milenkovic again,

one of the signings of the season and they're just unstoppable. And then if one of them gets injured like they did on Saturday, you've got Moretta and players like that to come in. We've got the strength. We've built this Premier League ready squad now. And it's just finding it up a little bit and seeing where we can go because I keep getting told that we're in a false position but we keep proving people wrong. Dan, Crystal Palace, are you...

Not asking for as much right now for Christmas as just turn around a little bit? I would just take a cup because we are, I think, alongside Fulham, probably the biggest club in this country, so we've never won one. And I know that's obviously a lofty ambition. You don't necessarily expect it, but...

We've been in two FA Cup finals, took United to a replay in 1990, got a manager now in Oliver Glasner that's won the Europa League. I don't think the team is a team that should be around the bottom three. I know we have been into the last couple of weeks, but it would be great. We've got Arsenal this coming Wednesday taking 6,000 to the Emirates. If we can get through that, we're into a semi-final.

We've got Stockport in the FA Cup, get a favourable run there. I think he's the sort of manager that would attack it, which we haven't had. You know, Roy Hodgson was the definition, really, of what Baz said about Sean Dyche. 38-0-0s, he would have been happy.

And with that, the cup competitions were never really something that he took seriously. So I think if we can really make an impression in a new year on those two cups and try to get to a final and finally win one, it would be huge. Are you still honed a bit by that Alan Pardew dance? When I was in the ground, I didn't realise it had happened, obviously, because you're just carrying on. You were doing your own dance. Well, exactly. And then afterwards, everyone's just going about Alan Pardew and I'm just still devastated about the two goals. But yeah,

It's one of those... I mean, I wasn't old enough in 1990, but it's something that Palace fans talk about all the time still. And if we were able to get over the line, even if it was just a League Cup, I know it gets sort of explained away by elite clubs, but if we were able to get one, it would just be massive. Right, we're going to finish one with Scolzi. So are you aware what this question is? Have you got the office leave? It's very hard. Adam's going to help me here, I think. OK, the six... I've not asked him yet, he hasn't got a clue. The six best goals that have ever been scored...

On a football pitch that you've been on? Yeah, it's very difficult. Yours against Villa at Villa Park is definitely up there. I won't count in mine. I'll chuck that one in then. I could have had six of them actually. What about Wyal? I've got three that stand out. Probably Ruva Nistelrooy against Fulham. You remember his goal against Basel?

I always think that was better, you know. Better than against Fulham? I know what you're saying. But from the angle where he's kind of taken it in. Yeah, no, it was a great goal, yeah. But Fulham, there must be better goals than that. Yeah, yeah. The Fulham one, anyway. But he beats four or five people and finishes. Don't know if you remember it, what are you? David Beckham, Wimbledon. And I think probably the greatest ever United goal was Ryan Giggs in the semi-final. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Were you playing against Newcastle when Wiser scored the volley? No. No?

That was a great goal that. Yeah, that was a great goal. Help me, I need three more.

That one's great. I think some at Liverpool, Steven must have smashed one in. Didn't you score one? John Anneries. Oh, you're talking about even the opposition? Oh, that's what I'm talking about, yeah, yeah. You scored a blinder at Bradford, is that right? Yeah, volley. Yeah, do you know when I got this question, I was thinking of other goals, I wasn't really thinking of my goals. Yeah, but if your goal is one of them, then that's fair enough as well. Yeah, I'm just trying. That Bradford goal was sensational. Was you there when Rooney scored the overhead kick? Was you playing that? Yeah.

Yeah, Rooney's over a kick against Sitter. Yeah, yeah. Against Sitter. There was a goal at Charlton. Rooney did an incredible dribble and he flicked it back to Rooney, chested it away from goal. That was a brilliant goal, yeah. Brilliant centre-forward goal, but they must think of playing against Real Madrid and Barcelona. You were against Barca. Rivaldo's over a kick.

Oh yeah, in the 3-3? In the 3-3, yeah. Yeah, that was a great one. I think Figo scored a great goal. What's the one with Andy Cole and Dwight Yorker playing 1-2? Yeah, oh yeah, Dwight Cole, I don't know what that was, yeah. Sorry. There was also, not just one goal, but Brazil and Ronaldo's hat-trick at Old Trafford. Oh yeah. Or they'll barter. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Could have had a goal. Yeah, Redondo did Henningberg, didn't he, on the line, yeah. Yeah.

Cantona? Cantona against Arsenal was good. The Cantona chip. Sheffield United? No, I don't. Sunderland? Oh, Sunderland. I didn't play Sheffield United, yeah. Oh, that was some goal. Beckham had a few. There was a chip at West Ham when he just first touched, just lobbed it over the keeper. Yeah, played in that game. And Deportivo La Coruña as well. Did you play at West Ham and Rooney scored from the half-final? No. I mean, the goalie made it look rubbish. Yeah, I didn't play in that game. You didn't at all. Any England ones?

England. Joel Cole? No, he's fucking shite. LAUGHTER Really? Joel Cole was against Sweden, if you want to do that. Yeah, Joel Cole against Sweden. I played in that game. Yeah, right back. What was Zidane's free kick? Oh, France, yeah. The ball gets stuck in the net, doesn't it? That kind of spins in the net. Gerrard putting him free on goal. LAUGHTER

so we've locked in the six so we've gone no I don't think we've locked in three Scoles in Villa Ruud, Fulham

Beckham Wimbledon yeah Giggsie Arsenal Rooney the overrated kid Rooney yeah that's five Shinder did you say Rivaldo why is it six why not five top five great six just sounds a bit like you're just doing it for the sake of it super six super six oh super six fair enough Real Madrid then you said Real Madrid all the goals Ronaldo yeah R9 greatest striker ever I must have forgot some good goals probably some of your own yeah

Well, that's it for another episode of The Fan Debate brought to you by Skybet. I hope you have a lovely Christmas and a happy new year.

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