Nottingham Forest preview & which old players should come home?
50:52 Share

The Acura ZDX is more than just 100% electric. It's 100% Acura energy. With nearly 500 horsepower and an impressive range rating, the ZDX Type S delivers 100% excitement and brings unprecedented performance to the Type S family.

And it's 100% loaded with innovative features like an 18-speaker Bang & Olufsen premium sound system, available hands-free cruise, and Google built-in. Test drive the Acura ZDX and unlock electrified performance today.

As you've probably heard by now, we've teamed up with BetMGM this season. We'll be using BetMGM lines to make all of our picks, and we'll have special offers for our listeners each week. If you haven't signed up for BetMGM yet, use bonus code THEATHLETIC, and you'll get a one-year subscription to The Athletic, plus up to a $1,500 first bet offer on your first wager with BetMGM. Here's how it works.

Download the BetMGM app and sign up using bonus code THEATHLETIC. Make your first deposit of at least $10, place your first bet on any game, and claim your voucher for a one-year subscription to The Athletic. See BetMGM.com for terms. U.S. promotional offers not available in D.C., Mississippi, New York, Nevada, Ontario, or Puerto Rico. Gambling problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER. Available in the U.S. Call 877-8-HOPE-NY or text HOPE-NY 467-369 in New York. Call 1-800-NEXT-STEP in Arizona, 1-800-327-5050 in Massachusetts, or text HOPE-NY 467-369 in New York.

1-800-BETS-OFF in Iowa, 1-800-270-7117 for confidential help in Michigan, 1-800-981-0023 in Puerto Rico, first bet offer for new customers only in partnership with Kansas Crossing Casino and Hotel. Don't forget, if you haven't signed up for BetMGM yet, use bonus code THEATHLETIC and you'll get a one-year subscription to The Athletic, plus up to a $1,500 first bet offer on your first wager.

This episode is supported by Merrill. With a dedicated Merrill advisor, you get a personalized plan for your financial goals. And when plans change, Merrill's with you every step of the way. Go to ml.com slash bullish to learn more. Merrill, a Bank of America company. What would you like the power to do? Investing involves risk. Merrill Lynch, Pierce, Fenner & Smith Incorporated, registered broker-dealer. Registered investment advisor. Member SIPC.

The Athletic FC Podcast Network. The only way to score is, of course, to play with a handbrake off. Hello, I'm Ian Stone. This is Handbrake Off, the Arsenal podcast brought to you by The Athletic.

Well, the Arsenal are finally back in action this Saturday as we take on Nottingham Forest at the Emirates Saturday afternoon to look ahead to our first home game in over a month. I'm joined by Amy Lawrence and James McNicholas. Good morning. Hello. Morning, Ian. Morning. Nice to see you guys. And we said in the last pod, over a month since we last gathered to watch the men's team at the Ems, so we thought we'd ask you what other things or places have you ever been raring or longing for?

to get back into your life? I mean, Stephen, our producer, has said that Highbury is a very valid answer, and it is a valid answer. Amy, what things have you been raring or longing to get back into your life? I'd say Highbury's probably the only answer in some ways. Block 22, clock end. Oh, my God. Just such incredible...

wave of nostalgia even saying those words out loud. We grew up there, didn't we? All of us, actually. Grew up in that place. So that's what it's about, really. Magic, magic. If I could go back to somewhere that I've

always wanted to go back to in my life, it would be Madagascar. An incredible, incredible place if you ever get the chance in any way. Please, please, please don't let it up. But I got a chance in ridiculous circumstances and cut a longish story shorter. I was working for The Observer at the time, great newspaper, and...

We basically used to live in the pub round the corner, the coach and horses most of the time. It was fantastic. If you ever needed to get hold of anybody, you basically needed to ring the pub on the landline and Brian, your editor, would get a call from behind the bar and you could come and ask your questions because nobody was ever in the office most of the time. Great place, great times. We had our Christmas party one year and

It was quite late in the evening and our boss out of nowhere suddenly goes, anyone want to go on a trip to Madagascar? And being the least inebriated and most focused at that point, I put my hand up first, which was just extraordinary because I managed to get a gig to go and cover Madagascar versus the Ivory Coast because our boss decided it would be a good idea to have a check out on what was going on in the African qualifiers for the World Cup.

And the travel desk wanted a piece as well, even though I had no clue about travel writing. So managed to be sent to Madagascar for nearly three weeks. And it was life changing stuff. The most incredible place. And I did vow I would go back and I hope I still manage.

Well, I mean, first of all, great answer. Outstanding answer, by the way. And can I just say, for anyone under 30, a newspaper is like a sort of, I don't know, it's like an actual, like a physical thing on paper that you could open up and read articles. And a telephone, like a wired telephone, is something that your mother would use. Sure.

Do you remember how you had to know people's numbers off by heart, obviously, in those days? How you answered it. You answered it with a number. We used to do 5005. Oh, wow. So that's what you used them for. Oh.

James, what are you raring or longing to get back into your life? Well, football, but of a different kind. I'd love to play some football. It's been a long time, actually. Having a young son and being quite busy with work, I've lost. I used to play weekly and it's fallen by the wayside and my body's not thanking me for it, I don't think. But, yeah, I really miss it. I love playing and...

desperate to get back to it James if you had to compare yourself in your prime to any existing footballer that the listener might have heard of who would that be maybe Andre Santos like a guy who's left footed

a little bit tubby made to play left back but wants to be playing up front and takes that attitude into his approach I'd say that's probably the closest comparison can I do this as well

Yeah. Messy. Definitely messy. Messy. But it's his uncle. Right. Yeah, Trevor. Messy. The lesser known messy. The lesser known messy. Still useful, but, you know, can get up and down. Spelt M-E-S-S-Y. I like it. Yeah, very nice. If I'm thinking about what other things I've been raring along to get back into my life, well, honestly, when we had the pandemic and I couldn't do stand-up...

It's hard to even find the words, actually, to how lost I felt without it. I mean, I really, really did. Now, I am slightly weird in that I will gig anywhere, anytime. I just can't help myself. And I'll do it till I die. But that six months when I'm walking around the house every day and at eight o'clock every evening going up to my family going, what's your name? Where are you from? Just to have some sort of... Please, can we have some sort of gig here? And they'd be looking at me going, you're our dad. Leave us alone. Go take the dog for another walk.

And I found it so difficult. So, yeah, stand-up would be the thing for me. Luckily, I get to do it on a regular basis. And the Cast Metal Federation, I'm coming for you this evening in Tamworth. That sounds like a song. Cast Metal Federation, he's coming for you. Yeah, I can hear John Peel. That was Cast Metal Federation.

Anyway, should we talk about the Arsenal? We know, by the way, it's a post-international break. Mikel Arteta isn't that forthcoming when it comes to fitness updates. We have no idea about who's fit, who's not. Do we? James, you regularly talk to the club. Have you heard that your face suggests that you don't know? But I'm just asking, have you got any updates on anything?

Just trying to think, really. I think I'm as much in the dark as you guys. I mean, there's a bit of kind of logic that you can apply. You know, I imagine Declan Rice is going to be fine. He was fit enough to start against Chelsea, even if he didn't finish the game. So you'd think with a fortnight off, he'll be all right. Toes take a while though, don't they? They do. But like I say... Assuming it was a toe. It was a toe, I think. A broken toe. But I think he'll be fit to play, especially in a game that feels so important right now.

But Kai Saka, you'd never bet against, really. No. Invariably, he makes himself available for selection. Ben White, we know, has had surgery. He's going to be out for a few weeks. Odegaard, back, of course, and had a little break as well. Didn't play for Norway in the end, which I think was a good outcome for Arsenal. So, yeah, we've got some idea, but Mikel Arteta will keep us guessing, no doubt. Quite. Amy, I want to talk about Martin Odegaard, but...

before we do that, Ben White, um,

I mean, Steve's written on here for a good while. Do you know a good while? I mean, you've written a couple of weeks. I don't know, Amy. I think we're going to really miss him, actually. Also, because in terms of bringing Timber over to the right-hand side, what do we do on the left? I mean, what would you do on the left, assuming people are fit? I mean, Calafiori goes in there, but... Well, yeah, if Calafiori was fit, I would 100% play him. I'd probably play him...

irrespective of who was fit or not. But if not, Tommy, assuming that he's fit. That's an assumption. It is, isn't it? I know. I know. Tierney, I mean... I think realistically, there's something romantic about Kieran Tierney coming in from the deep freeze and... He'll love this weather, won't he? Especially a week when it snowed. But...

But I think in reality, to have not played for many, many months and just go straight into a must-win Premier League game against quite a strong, organised, physical opponent. A good team. It's difficult to imagine. I'd like to see him come back in and get some minutes at some point and see how things are. I think it would be...

Really nice from a psychological point of view and an emotional point of view as well as anything else for him to feel part of it. Again, it's not been the easiest time, I imagine, for him to deal with the last couple of years and to still be around knowing that maybe that wasn't the plan. I mean, I would have no objections to Myles Lewis Skelly playing at all. I think he's more than capable. And Zinni...

He's obviously the most experienced, probably, of the bunch and the most fit in that regard. But obviously, his comeback recently has been bitty, let's say. One player who should feature again is, of course, you mentioned him today, is Martin Oedegaard. You've written a piece on his rehab and his journey back. What did you learn when you were writing this? Probably not a great thing to say as a journalist, but...

I didn't learn a tremendous amount simply because, you know, everyone you speak to is like, well, he's been incredibly diligent in his recovery. He's been incredibly professional. He's done everything that's been asked of him. And frankly, that's what we've come to expect in the case of Martin Odegaard. The one thing I did think was quite interesting was speaking to somebody who's quite close to him. They said he's found it

quite beneficial to kind of have a new perspective. He's been watching games from his box and I think he's found that vantage point interesting and I think helpful in some ways. He'll be even better when he comes back, is what you're saying. This is what I'm promised. This is what I'm promised. But, I mean, honestly, no. I mean, you know, he is the guy that we expect him to be at this point in time. He's been absolutely relentless in his attempt to get back as soon as possible. You know, I think even...

going to Milan when he did was kind of a little ahead of schedule from what they'd planned, you know, just a few weeks before. I think even the fact that he was prepared to go to Norway when, you know, ostensibly wasn't going to play,

I think it shows you the kind of captain he is, that he was prepared to make that journey and meet up with the squad, talk with the manager. I think he talked to the media as well while he was there. That's exactly the sort of bloke he is. He takes responsibility in these situations and he recognises how significant that role is, especially when things aren't going well and Norway haven't had a great run of results heading into this international break and nor have Arsenal. And I think he'll be...

Just desperate to get back out there and playing regularly. And I can't wait to see the impact he has on the team. Amy, a better Martin Odegaard than we've already had.

I mean, the prospect is tantalising, isn't it? But also, it does come back to we need him in the team doing what he does. We just cannot cope without him. I think the thing about a better Martin Odom... Well, we did cope without him when he was first out, in fairness. So...

But then some of the attacking players in particular began to lose a bit of rhythm and a bit of ruthlessness. And then it really told. I think it's not so much a question of a better Martin Odegaard, but Martin Odegaard making other people better. And that's the key to his return. They look up to him, don't they? Well, it's not... I think. I think they just... I think there are certain players within a team that everybody loves to play with.

and alongside and know that they can find that person with the ball and that the ball will be looked after and the ball will be used. At the same time, he's a safe option, but he's also a key option that can unlock things.

He can help in any kind of situation. And his role as the instigator of the press, as the guy who knows when to go and when not to go, who comes with and kind of instructs and leads by example and is vocal out on the pitch. All those things are really important to the way Alston tries to play. But I'm just most excited to see. I do think there will be a general lift, particularly in the final third.

in the players around him because he is there. And I think the crowd as well, by the way, I think he'll lift the whole stadium when assuming that his name is announced in the starting lineup. And, you know, we're playing a good team, James Forrest, you know, we're level on points with them. Can't imagine any of us thought that would have been said when we saw the fixture list in the summer. Yeah.

I mean, they've got, they're a counter-attacking team, aren't they? I think someone like Detlef Rice would come into his own in a game like this, really, sitting at the base, assuming that's what he's doing, or Thomas Partey if he's playing there, and just cutting off those attacks. Yeah, and I do think Ben White's absence over the next few weeks means we might see a little bit more of Thomas Partey up right back. I don't think that...

experiment is at an end. But yeah, I think Forrester are dangerous and they've shown that against us in the past. I think, you know, I really am a big fan of Morgan Gibbs-White. I think he's an excellent player. And I think back to the Aston Villa game, actually, right at the start of the season. And I remember the trouble Morgan Rogers gave us driving through the midfield, running at our back four. I think Gibbs-White is a really similar player who has the potential to hurt us in that way. I think Anthony Alanga is...

is rapid, really rapid. And he's hurt us previously on the counter-attack. With him and Callum Hudson-Odoi, they've got a couple of really promising, exciting wingers. So Forrester going well. I think Murillo, the centre-back, is going to be a top player, going to go to a big club at some point in time. So yeah, I think it'll be a challenge. But it's sort of the perfect game in some respects because it's a tough game.

It's a winnable game, especially at home. And it's a game that if we win, with Forest being in the form they've been in, leaving aside their poor result against Newcastle before the break, I think it will feel like a real boost to beat them, sort of re-establish our position in the table. And we've got to do it. I mean, I don't take it for granted because if we don't, you know, there's plenty of teams behind us who are getting perilously close. So it feels like a must win. If we're going to sort of almost restart our season on the right foot,

We need to win this game. Yeah, that's exactly how I'm feeling. It does feel like a restart, doesn't it, Amy? And do you think a lot of players who are on the fringes might feel a similar sort of thing? Say, you know what? It's all up for grabs here. People like Gabriel Jesus, Raheem Sterling, perhaps they'll feature a little bit. You know, because I saw a piece, I saw somebody on...

on social media was having a go at Raheem Sterling saying he just hasn't done it yet. You know, something like coming on in a game like this and producing something special, that could kickstart everything. I hope they're all chomping at the bit. You know, this feels like a bit of a reset moment. Maybe it's massively optimistic, but

potentially it reminds me slightly of when Arsenal, way, way back, I think it was Wenger's first season, they lost the game against Blackburn at home 3-1. And there was a lot of home truths after that. And it was a point where all the players looked quite deep at themselves, at each other, and asked themselves what they wanted to do with this season. And...

lifted themselves accordingly and then basically went on a run that ended up with the title. I'm not suggesting this is the same, but in some ways this pause, even if not ideal because it was an interlal and because some people go away and some people don't, some people enjoy whatever, but I'd like to imagine that there's been some really intelligent and inspiring conversations going on at London Colney. I'd like to think that this has given everybody a little bit of space to sort of reflect on

Put what's happened this season so far behind and say, OK, now we restart. Foot to the pedal and see how far we go. And everybody has to be on alert to give everything every day so that if they're needed, they come on and they can make a difference. That is what has to be the way this season for this team.

All right, well, look, I tell you what, we're going to take a break. So we'll have a few conversations amongst ourselves about how this first part of the pod has gone. We'll come back, reset and ready to go for the second part of Hand Break Off. You cheeky sod. Come see us, Lord. Come see us, Lord. You know you can't see.

Thursday night football is on, and it's only on Prime Video. Breaking the tackle, touchdown. This week, keep the holiday celebration going as the Seattle Seahawks take on the Chicago Bears. You're going to love this. Coverage begins at 7 p.m. Eastern with TNF Tonight, presented by Verizon. Not a Prime member? Sign up for a 30-day free trial to stream the game. It's the Seahawks and Bears, Thursday at 7.

Owned on Prime Video. Restrictions apply. See Amazon.com slash Amazon Prime for details. Learn from the world's best all in one place with Masterclass, the only streaming platform where you can learn and grow with over 200 of the world's best. Masterclass always has great offers during the holidays, sometimes up to as much as 50% off. Head over to Masterclass.com slash Spotify for the current offer. That's up to 50% off at Masterclass.com slash Spotify.

This episode is brought to you by Honda. When you test drive the all-electric Prologue SUV, there's a lot that can impress you about it. There's the generous passenger space, the clean, thoughtful design, and the intuitive technology. But out of everything, what you'll really love most is that it's a Honda. Visit Honda.com slash EV to see offers. ♪

This is Handbrake Off, the Arsenal podcast with me, Ian Stone, James McNicholas and Amy Lawrence. Let's talk about a few things happening in the expanded Arsenal universe, if you like. Patrick Vieira is the new boss of the Italian side, Genoa. James, he's done Crystal Palace, Nice, Strasbourg. I mean, we all thought he'd maybe come back at some point. I like that he's learning and obviously he's getting plenty of experience and he's failing and starting again.

He was such a splendid player, James. He hasn't quite got to that level yet as a manager, but he's working it out, isn't he? Yeah, I mean, he's not been a manager for 10 years yet, right? So I think he would argue he's still early on in the journey. Mikel's done six.

Right, yeah. I mean, the thing is about the management, it is kind of crazy, isn't it? I think Pep Guardiola changed everything, really, when he hit the ground running as he did at Barcelona. And it suddenly became a young man's game. It became a career where, you know, you could land a top job immediately or certainly very early on. And if you...

if you flourished, then great. I think Vieira's not had that particular development path himself. I don't think it means he won't get there, but it's difficult, isn't it? I think the more jobs you have and maybe the more jobs you lose, I think the more difficult it becomes to be a guy that the bigger clubs look at seriously. Maybe Arsenal will always have a look at Patrick Vieira because he's Patrick Vieira. Maybe that's a door where they will always give him the time of day, potentially. But,

I'm intrigued to see how he gets on there. I'd love him to make a real success of it as a manager. I think he was such an inspirational figure as a player. I can totally see how in a dressing room, he might have that same stature and presence. And I can imagine players would love to play for him, especially those who remember him in his own playing days. But right now, you'd have to say it looks like a...

a long path back to becoming something like an Arsenal manager. Amy, you've met him, you've talked to him. I mean, obviously he's got amazing charisma and he emanates that sort of drive and power. It sounds like perfect coach, manager material. I mean, I'd like to see him in the dugout at Arsenal one day, just because of who he is. Yeah, he was one of my choices early on, I think, particularly. I vaguely remember...

campaigning a bit when it was the kind of tail end of Emery. And I believe that he was also under consideration alongside Arteta at that time. So sometimes you think there are sort of sliding doors moments. You talk about James, you know, managers coming in and maybe being a first job or being very young. And if you're at the right club, everything can just click in an amazing way, as it has for Mikel.

But I look at some of the clubs that Patrick's been at and they're tricky clubs. And Genoa, who he's just gone to, is another one. You know, Genoa have not been what you would call successful in inverted commas for, I don't know, ages. Probably the 90s was the last time they were half decent in

That's a tough job. There's already kind of sensitivities. Balotelli is there. I think that should help a sense that Balotelli and Patrick, it might be a little bit, bit of sticky history there. I think the owner is a bit of a higher and fire guy. I mean, it looks to me like this sort of job, a bit like, you know, Nice was a tricky club at the time when he was there. Palace,

You know, he started off great. He was absolutely loved at the beginning. But it's a difficult club to have an unbelievable impact in, i.e. for Palace to be trying to get into European places and top four. Something that might really catch the eye of the big clubs, making a statement with a club like that. He's got a job on, generally, with the clubs he's been at to do that. So...

It's hard because when you're a manager who's starting out and you really want to make a go of it, you have to take what you're given. You can't choose your club. You can't choose your owner. You have to see what comes your way and think, right, I can try and make a difference here.

But it ain't easy. So, I mean, I must say I was when when Edu left, there was a little bit of me that fantasized that maybe Patrick would come back as sporting director or something in that manner. He's still got that drive to be a manager, but I could see him also having a kind of more ambassadorial and oversight technical role. He has got that charisma. He could walk into any meeting in any room with any people in any environment and

and command authority, be listened to. He's wise. He's good to talk to. I really hope one day, whatever the role is, I would dearly love to see him back in a senior position at this football club.

Quite. Genoa, by the way, have nine Italian top flight titles. The last one was in 1924. So when I was just a young man. So, you know, he's got some work on. James, are there any other ex-players you think might make the cut? I mean, Amy was talking about...

sporting director there and there is sort of work Thomas Rosicki's name has come up you know he's been involved in that work before that could work right any other players who you'd like back in the club

I mean, Brzezinski, yeah, I would throw his hat into the ring for the sporting director job. He's doing it currently at Sparta Prague and obviously played with Mikel, which I think they've got a great relationship, which won't hurt him in that respect. Elsewhere, I mean, he's still very much playing, but I feel pretty convinced that Granit Xhaka will make a coach one day. Yeah.

Yeah, that relationship's not done then, is what you're saying. Yeah, I don't know. Yeah, I mean, it might be, but it would be quite the twist, wouldn't it, if he one day came back to Arsenal in some capacity, maybe as a coach or a manager. Absolutely see that. You know, Jorginho, I think, who's still on the playing staff currently, seems like a coach in the making.

Jack? I think it's important. Jack, yeah. I mean, Arsenal have lost Jack, Wilshere and Edu in the last few weeks. That's a lot of Arsenal heritage that's sort of come out of London Colony there. And I'd like to see that continue. I think it's been a really important part of the rebuild, the remaking really of the club over the last five years or so has been that kind of

willingness to welcome people back into the training ground, you know, not just Mikel, but Edu, Per Mert, Saka, Jack. I think it's important we keep that tradition going. That is our club, isn't it? That is our club, Arsenal Heritage. I mean, it just sounds right. And, you know, from all the stuff around the stadium and employing the players, the ex-players to come in in management roles. I mean, Amy, that's what we do well.

Well, it helps. I think, you know, it's like anything. If you've got two people with the right credentials, one has an Arsenal connection and one doesn't, then it makes sense to take the person who feels the spirit of the club. But I think having the right credentials is massive. You know, the way football is now and the level of competition and the margins being so gossamer thin, you have to make sure you're getting the right people involved.

But the only other name of a sort of ex-player who you wonder if one day they might come back. I can't see it happening because I can't see the Cronkies being that interested in any kind of sale or merger or partnership. But Flamini is a fairly extraordinary human being.

And if you spend like 10 minutes even in his company, you feel like you've been like, there's a tidal wave of energy and dynamism and determination. He's absolutely so uber motivated in whatever it is he tries to do that. I think it would be an interesting energy to bring back into the club. That's a great call. I would also mention Dennis Bergkamp as well. Yeah.

In some capacity, I don't know. Whatever he wants to do. Anything. He can just come back and just be Dennis. Just be around. Yeah, just be there. As an inspiration. Salute! Salute!

This episode is brought to you by Dutch Bros. Get stoked for all the holly jolly vibes this season at Dutch Bros. Stay cozy with returning winter faves, hazelnut truffle mocha and candy cane mocha. Plus, the new Winter Shimmer Rebel Energy Drink blends up sweet cream and blue ras flavor with soft top and shimmer sprinks to keep those spirits energized all winter long. Download the Dutch Bros app to find your nearest shop, order ahead, and start earning rewards.

Whether you're ordering wings for the game, whipping up a seven-layer dip, or ordering pizza, there's something about football that makes you want to eat. And this football season, Uber Eats has the best deals on game day food. No matter what you're craving, from two-for-one pizza to buy one, get one wings, Uber Eats will be dropping new deals each week, all season long. Uber Eats, official on-demand delivery partner of the NFL. Order now. Terms and conditions apply. See app for details. We have one more act for you this evening.

I don't even need to say his name. Mr. Bob Dylan! A complete unknown is now a Golden Globe and Critics' Choice nominee for Best Picture. Bobby, what do you want to be? Whatever it is, they don't want me to be. Timothee Chalamet astonishes as Bob Dylan in one of the best performances of the year. And critics rave Edward Norton is absolutely fantastic. 70,000 people are here and Bobby is the reason for it. This Christmas...

They just want me singing Blowing in the Wind for the rest of my life. Don't miss the movie critics are hailing. Five stars. It's pure cinematic magic. Turn it down! Play it loud! And named to AFI and the National Board of Review's Top Ten Films of the Year. Make some noise, BD. Track some mud on the carpet. A Complete Unknown. Only in theaters Christmas Day. Rated R. Under $17.99 without parent.

They get a handbrake off and you can see that they are more free to play.

But would the club not benefit from identifying and picking up a few prospects every now and again and being responsible for their development in training and loans so that we can prevent having to pay for their services down the line? They give an example of Eze, who was once in the academy. Yeah, lovely footballer. Amy, do you think...

Young talent. I mean, we've got a young team anyway, haven't we, really? I think, if I understand the question correctly, that what he's referring to is integrating into Hale End and being more aggressive with, you know, getting young players in, sort of, they're making their big steps professionally. And I think that, like all big clubs, that is part of the plan. It's not always something you can execute because youth football is...

fiendishly competitive. It's a very, very tough environment. The most frustrating example recently is Chido, Obi Martin, who Arsenal had. They scouted him. They found this guy in Denmark, I think. He came over to London in a way that kind of

resonates with getting, say, Fabregas and Senderos and Bentner and all those guys from that generation, Danielson, the kind of project youth, as I think it was called at the time when Arsenal moved

from Highbury to the Emirates and I think as a way to combat the financial stresses of that move there was a very deliberate plan get the best young players you can as early as you can bring them up within the club inculcate them with the culture of the club get them feeling connected so they grow together and some of the players that joined Arsenal around that time Carlos Vela was wanted by everybody in world football came to Arsenal and

I think he was like most valuable player of the sort of Youth World Cup or whatever. Senderos was coveted by everyone, Real Madrid, you name it. All the clubs around wanted him. And that was the way that Arsenal operated. And I think it still applies. And I'm afraid I can't remember the name, but I think...

There was a young player from West Ham who's very highly regarded, who signed quite recently, I think around the age of 15. You look at the boy who's just gone from Chelsea to Liverpool and that caused quite a stir. You know, this thing happens. It's younger and younger and younger because of the competition that clubs are competing and maybe poaching. There was a very good piece on The Athletic the other day about scouting for young players and how...

Clubs are getting a bit angry with one another and making scouts go in the corner and not have proper access. And they don't want them spying on each other's players so much because you're speaking to agents or parents and turning people's heads because then you end up with a situation which is exactly like Arsenal had with Chido. On the other hand, you know, people like Ethan stayed. Omari Hutchinson, not that long ago, he left. He was one of the players.

top prospects and he was you know you win some you lose some it I always feel a bit uncomfortable when you're talking about this with teenagers you know with with people who are not yet fully adult um in an ideal world they'd have a bit more time and space to just be themselves and just get on with trying to live the young footballer's life which was pressurized enough and crazy enough as it is and then that leads you into Jacob Tanswell's really really good piece this week

When he was an academy player at Bournemouth and he went back and spoke to a bunch of his teammates about how what happened to them in the subsequent years. They were all together up to about under 16. Some got released, some stayed a bit longer. And the heartache and the pressure that was a thread through these people's stories is a big thing. You know, it takes a lot to be the best player.

It's mad out there. So this has completely gone off on a tangent. Thanks for the question and sorry I've gone ranting.

Yes, I think Arsenal have to balance, like all clubs, can we get the best young players into our system as early as possible with trying to kind of stay sane. James, I mean, it is a great question, by the way. Thank you, Kuzo. James, it's money, isn't it? In the end, there's so much money. So there have to be rules and making it defined the way you approach players and the care of them.

But I've heard these discussions for years and years about how people would go for apprenticeships and then just be discarded and they'd be left with nothing. There seems to be a bit more care now than there used to be, but the money is so enormous that you can understand sometimes people just get a bit desperate. Yeah, I think it's huge pressure and anyone...

I'm not in this position yet myself, but anyone who's got teenage kids will know all the pressures that those children are under anyway, right, at that point in their life. Before you add in this kind of dangling carrot of, you know, being a potential professional footballer, that raises the stakes even further. So I think it's a complex one. I think, you know, we speak about Arsenal previously recruiting a number of players.

young foreign players I think international moves like that are more difficult now I think the legislation has changed since Brexit and so going and you know plucking a 15 or 16 year old from Barcelona's academy is not as straightforward as it once was I also think that that means inevitably that Arsenal will be targeting players in a slightly older age bracket I think generally when they're looking to strengthen the academy they're looking more at the ages between kind of 18 and 21 and

We've seen a bit of that already with Tommy Setford coming in from Ajax. And I do expect Arsenal and Pomerzak are leading the academy to make more moves like that in the coming months and years. I'd be surprised if some of that doesn't continue in January because I know that resource has been made available and it's something that Arsenal are conscious of and an area where they want to improve. So maybe that kind of Tommy Setford style signing will become a bit more familiar over the next few transfer windows.

And I have to say, by the way, having Per Mertensacker in charge of all this, it gives me confidence because he seems like a good guy who seems to know what he's doing. So, you know, I don't know any more than that, but it's fingers crossed, I think, really. And by the way, when I talk about that, I don't just mean in terms of getting prospects who come through and make amazing first team players, but the people are looked after, basically, you know, in that very sort of

crucial and difficult part of life, teenage years. One more. Tim, he's in LA. He's on email. Was Alexander Sinchenko ever considered as cover for Martin Odegaard? If not, why not? It seems he has the energy to push teams on the press and the creativity to make things happen in the final third. Plus, playing close to the front limits his liability on defence. Am I missing something?

I have to say, Tim, I thought that initially he plays in that position pretty much for Ukraine, doesn't he? Is he number 10 or is he a bit deeper? I don't think I've watched a huge amount of Ukrainian internationals. James, I'll come to you first. I was surprised that they didn't bring him. Maybe he wasn't fit at that point when Martin Erdogan was out. Maybe that was what it was about. To be honest, I'm not sure that is what it's about. I think...

If you look at Zinchenko's time at Arsenal, he has never really been considered in any serious way as an option in midfield. I think he's played there about 45 minutes in a home game against Southampton. I think he switched into that. Maybe it was less than that, actually. Maybe it was about 20 minutes. He's never started there, certainly. Why that is remains a bit of a mystery. If you ask Mikel Arteta, he'll say something about, well, he's very versatile. He can play a number of different roles.

Reading between the lines, I think it's all about physicality. And I think that's a really underrated aspect of Martin Odegaard's play. We talk about his creativity, but we maybe don't talk enough about the physical intensity that he brings. I think how much Arsenal's pressing game has suffered in his absence. And my suspicion is...

That Arteta just doesn't feel that he'd get the same levels from Zinchenko for all his technical quality on the ball. And also sort of taking a step back from that, when I look at kind of the complexion of the squad and the composition of the squad rather, and Zinchenko's playing time, even when he has been available this season, I do feel that things are shifting for him and maybe he's not

quite as essential to a Mikulacic's plan as he has been previously. So I think there's something wider happening with Zinchenko and that's probably reflected in the fact that, you know, I think his deal expires in 2026 and currently there's no talk about an extension. Anything to add to that, Amy? You know, he obviously came in and he was very important for us early on in terms of just getting the team going and making them believe that

that they could go all the way. But it does feel a little bit like the team has outgrown him and maybe he just doesn't trust him enough to put him in such a central position. Look, at the moment, he's not trusting him that much in any position. No. I think it is a sign of Mikel's ruthlessness when he put a lot of...

energy into persuading Zinchenko and Jesus to join for Manchester City when Arsenal were not competing for titles. He believed 100% and convinced those guys 100% that they were what was needed to take Arsenal to a next level. And they both played a really important role in that evolution. The rootlessness is there because I think Mikel is already looking past that.

and seeing who will be the ones, a little bit like Man City did themselves. They had Zinchenko and Jesus there for five, six years as important parts of their squad, if not absolutely critical members, and then decided, OK, we're going to try some different people here with different qualities. And I suspect Arsenal might be

having similar thoughts, which is a sign of how the club has grown in the time that they've been here, how the team has grown anyway. It's hard for the players, you know, it's hard for them, but it is a tough old business. It's interesting, isn't it? It's hard at all the ends, isn't it? It's hard at the starting out bit when you're 10, 11, 12 and how difficult it is. It's hard near the end when you're getting on a bit or when you're out of favour. It's a brutal thing.

sport in some ways but you know these guys are on hundreds of thousands of pounds a week so with that money comes tremendous amounts of pressure and that's how it goes but I do by the way still think that Zinni could play a part this season as the same with Gabriel Jesus we will see let's have a song

before we finish. We were going to talk briefly about Martin Keogh doing a book signing and I'm only bringing that up because my song was related to Martin Keogh's book signing. He's going to be signing copies of his book on the edge at the Armory near the Emirates after the game if you want to see an Arsenal ledge in the flesh. My song, by the way, was I Won't Back Down by Tom Petty because that is Martin in it really in a nutshell. Woo!

Amy, what have you got? Well, I just woke up this morning and thought, welcome back Arsenal, welcome back Premier League, welcome back Emirates. And the song that popped into my head was Welcome to the Pleasure Dome by Frankie Goes to Hollywood. And it set me off on an absolutely lovely nostalgia trip. I stuck it on, it's nearly 14 minutes.

and i remember do you remember the impact of that record coming out yeah oh my god 1984 i think it was 1983 84 something like that not like you to be nostalgic i know i know come on give the people what they want a stony uh maybe they don't sorry people who don't know nostalgia they definitely want it stop and frankie just this band came out of nowhere as a they were riotous

But it's a great song, Welcome to the Pleasure Dome, and it goes on for ages. I really like it when it gets all instrumental on a sort of quite funky about eight or nine minutes. It gets a bit deeper. So play a bit out of that if you want, Steve. That was my song. Welcome back, Arsenal. Welcome to the Pleasure Dome. Maybe the rest of the season is going to be full of raunchy pleasures. LAUGHTER

Do you know what? I'm not sure we can follow that, Shane. Yeah, I don't know. But raunchy pleasures, eh? That'd be a new dynamic in the press box, that's for sure. What, if Mikel Arteta comes out and everyone goes, Yeah. I mean, stranger things have happened. No, that's true. What have you got for us? Oh, I was just thinking of songs about...

you know new beginnings and I ended up picking a track called Fresh Start it's by it's by Joan Jett and the Blackhearts but it's from 2018 what oh they're still knocking about yeah they toured last year it turns out I think they toured with Brian Adams still going and it's a good track it's classic really you know sort of punky rock and roll but Fresh Start because I feel like that's what we all want on Saturday put another dime in the jukebox baby yeah

Yeah, I love Rock and Roll is the song that Amy is referring to there. That's it. Thanks to Amy. Thanks to James. Thank you for listening. Thanks to Steve as well for producing today, Tom. And, well, we'll be back on Monday to talk about the beginning of Arsenal's march to the title, having put four past Forest in season. All right, see you.