The Commentators’ View: Moscow cops & Tuchel’s tailoring
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Hello there, I'm Ali Bruce Ball and welcome to the commentator's view once again as we continue to tell some of the stories behind the five live commentaries. A big thank you again to Connor McNamara for his star turn last week. I get the feeling we only very slightly scratched the surface with some of Connor's stories, so I think we're going to have to have him back on the podcast soon. But I'm delighted to say Ian Dennis and John Murray are here again. John, you are...

Fresh from Tottenham's thrilling 4-3 win over Manchester United last night. We're recording this on Friday morning. Fresh from the Manchester derby at the weekend. And fresh also from speaking to the New England manager, Thomas Tuchel, in Zurich last week. Are you not entertained, John? Well, treble fresh, John.

Although I'm not sure that's necessarily the word that I would use because I had one of my travel epics on the way last week. What a surprise. Yeah, I know. I knew you would say that. So we did Juventus against Manchester City on the midweek. So that was last midweek. Then I embarked on a train journey from Turin to...

to Milan and through the Alps to Zurich for the World Cup qualifying draw. And then we had a day at FIFA HQ, which... Have either of you been to FIFA HQ? Ian, you must have done. Yes, yes. And so you know where it is. It's like up in the hills above Zurich. And it was cold and murky. We did all of the interviews outside...

Outside? Yeah. So we were like, you know, it was coats, layers, hats, everything. But I'm not sure they'd necessarily told the managers and coaches that they were going to be outside. So Thomas Tuchel was definitely feeling the cold, even though he's a Bavarian. He was feeling the cold in Zurich when I interviewed him. And anyway, after all that had been completed, I then had to get myself back to the UK for what reason?

originally had been planned for me to commentate on Nottingham Forest against Aston Villa on the Saturday night. So this was the Friday and the match was on the Saturday. But fortunately, Ross, our football editor, had decided that maybe it was biting off a little bit more than I could chew. So I changed the plans for that. So Chris Wise did the commentary for that match instead, which was just as well because I then ended up being marooned for the night by

in Amsterdam. I couldn't get home from Amsterdam, so I had to stay in a hotel, which I got to at about... I got the hotel about midnight.

on the Friday night and eventually got home on Saturday morning. But as you know, Ian, that is par for the course, isn't it, sometimes? Jonah strikes again. So I'm not necessarily fresh. I don't know if you've ever had... You must have had experience of travelling with a big man, certainly with golf, I would have thought. Yeah, yeah. But if he doesn't get delayed, his bag will go missing. I've never known anybody...

suffer such misfortune on his travels than John. Hence the reason why he's called Jonah. Or Ian, the flight gets cancelled? The flight gets cancelled. It once took us 27 hours to get home from Moscow together. Is it CSK Moscow Chelsea? That's well remembered. We were on the way to the airport and our taxi got pulled over, if you remember. We were in this rickety old larder or something like this.

And there was you and me in the back. And it was a real old-fashioned. And it was a Russian. I don't remember him speaking any English. And for those who, when we could do this thing, for those who have travelled to Moscow and out the airport, what's it called again? Seremetyevo or something.

Yeah. Yeah. It's way out of Moscow. And do you remember, we were on the motorway out and it was very cold again, wasn't it? Was it snowy? Oh, it's certainly cold. Yes. Cold and grey. Very cold. Do you remember, we're sort of, we're scooting along this motorway.

And suddenly he veered off, didn't he? Down this slip road. Do you remember? He did. He got pulled over by the police. Was he? Yeah, you're right. He didn't speak any English. Niet gawarici pangliski. And I remember saying to you at the time, I said, I've got a bad feeling about this. And we walked into the airport. No, but hang on a minute. So he pulled down the slip road and this police car, that's right, was parked there.

Police car parked and he parked away from it. Do you remember? He just got out the car. Yeah. And left. And it was like, and we're sitting at the back of this car. He's left the keys in the car. And he walks over to this police car, which I think was an unmarked police car. Yes, it was. He got in it. And it's like, we're just there somewhere in the middle of the Russian countryside with the wind blowing off the Russian steps. And you and I said...

And it was ages, wasn't it? And it was one of those worst-case scenarios, Ali, when you walk into the airport on the board there, it just went cancelled, delayed, cancelled, cancelled, cancelled, all the way down. I remember you turning to me when we looked up at the board in the airport, and I remember you turning to me and going, it's been cancelled! And then basically, Ali, we had a choice. We had a choice to stay in Moscow for a night, or, the travel rep said...

pick your destination in Europe. He pointed to the board. He pointed to the departures board and he said, pick a place. Where do you want to go? John dismissed the idea of having another night in Moscow. I didn't want our mate to give us another trip back into Moscow. We toyed with the chance to go to Munich and then we settled on Paris and then lo and behold...

The flight from Paris the next day got cancelled. We then had to go via Amsterdam and it took us 27 hours in total to get home.

Just in case you're wondering about the taxi driver, when he got out of the police car, after a lengthy spell in the police car, he walked back over to it and we're thinking, what's going to happen now? What's going to happen now? He got in, shut the door, didn't even turn round to us, just started the car up and drove off. Do you try and avoid travelling with John then, if possible? Yes. If you're on gigs together. Although I've got to say, in fairness to him,

I mean, being in his company is a joy at the best of times anyway. Well, thank you very much. But he is the perfect travel companion because he's a bit like you. He'll come up with a little game.

to help pass the time. So, although it was horrendous in terms of 27 hours to travel home, the time we had together was very amusing. It was. Just before I move on and tell you about the weekend's football and what we're all covering this weekend, your conversation with Thomas Tuchel, John, so I watched quite a lot of, all your interviews you did for Five Live were filmed, weren't they, by BBC Television? Yes, they were.

And I could very clearly tell it was you because the Five Live mic was there, but also everyone was looking way up into the distance to some giant who they were speaking to. But your opening little gambit with Thomas Tuchel I enjoyed because it was a sort of where have you been, what have you been up to, we've been expecting you. And he quite liked that, didn't he? It just broke the ice a little bit before you started with him. It almost literally broke the ice. But he was, in actual fact, what was the preamble to that was...

So remember, I had interviewed him on the day he was announced when he came over to Wembley. So I'd had a little bit of previous there with him as the England manager. And on that day, I remember we had a little chat before the interview and I'd asked him about not wearing a tie, which he didn't on the day that he was announced. But he said, but I have got a new suit on that day. So in Zurich last week when he came over and he was like, he was actually holding his arms and shivering a bit.

My opening gamut there was, after I'd said hello, I said, is it another new suit today? And he said, actually, I knew it would be very cold. I have worn a suit that is made out of wool for extra warmth. That was excellent preparation. I thought you should really have had a coat. And it also reminded me, and I'm sure you won't mind me telling this story, John, it reminded me of... Let me be the judge of this. OK, Ryder Cup 2012...

Pep Guardiola on his sabbatical and John Inverdale says, let's go and get a word with Pep Guardiola. And Pep Guardiola was following whatever game you were with, wasn't he? And he was inside the rope so you could get to him and you eventually got to him and spoke. Yeah, I think he was there as a guest of Jose Maria Olifarbo, wasn't he? And as you say, it was during that year when he was taking his year off.

So he'd gone to the Ryder Cup as a guest, but he was inside the ropes. So he was mingling with the media. However, unbeknownst to me at the time, before John Inverdale had said, Pep Guardiola's there, why don't you go and get an interview with him? What I didn't know was that he'd already been approached by Sky Television and given them extremely short shrift, you know, which had been, would you mind, Pep, would you be happy to have a word? Absolutely not. I'm just here to watch the golf goodbye.

And so I didn't know that. I'd mentioned to John, we were both crouching down in amongst a load of other media people and, you know, wives and girlfriends and all, everyone that follows the Ryder Cup.

So we were almost right next to him when I'd said to John. So John had said, well, why don't you try and get a word with him? But he couldn't get away because we were kneeling down because we were close to either a green or a tea or something like that. So no one could move. He was a captive audience. So I said, would you mind for a quick word for the BBC? Yeah.

It was absolutely monosyllabic. Yeah, it was. So I'd not heard all the build-up to that, but the bit I really liked about it, Ian, was, and I've done this plenty of times before, John, who is such a good interviewer, you know, and asks such brilliant questions.

But at this moment, because there's a lot going on, you know, you're trying to keep your voice down, there's Ryder Cup golf being played, you know, obviously, John, you know that Pep Guardiola is not that keen on being spoken to. Well, I didn't know that. I didn't know that. I didn't know he wasn't there. Right, OK. And John says to Pep, hello, Pep, what are you doing here? And he said...

Watching the golf. But I was hoping, I knew he was there as a guest of Jose Maria Olifarbo, so I was hoping he was going to say, well, my good friend Jose Maria Olifarbo offered me a kind invitation to come and watch the Ryder Cup and to see how this sport works from the inside. That's what I was hoping for. He didn't trot out the Gordon Strachan response then to Garth Crooks when Garth said to Gordon Strachan, have you got a quick word, please, Gordon? To which Gordon replied, velocity. No, he didn't. It wasn't as convivial as that.

I'm just having a look to see if Manchester City and Pep Guardiola don't actually feature in one of our commentary games this weekend. Let me rattle you through those because there are a lot of them. It's one of those Sundays in particular where there are four Premier League games kicking off at 2 o'clock.

And it means that you're able to listen. You've got a choice of listening. You can listen to any one of four commentaries, either on Five Live Sports Extra or the BBC Sport website. Manchester City, obviously, are involved in the lunchtime kickoff. So Five Live Sport on air from midday on Saturday. Ian, you're off to West Ham, Brighton. Yes. Now, we select our games, if the listener doesn't know, two weeks before. They won't know that. I'm not too sure if we've mentioned it on any of the previous episodes. Yeah.

But if we hadn't, then that's what we do. Certainly for the first half of the season anyway. What do we do in the second half of the season? It changes to 10 days notice and then 7 days notice. I see. They won't know that either, will they? No, I didn't think you did the way you asked the question. Well, I didn't. Or if I did, it'd slip my mind. And initially penciled in was Brentford Nottingham Forest.

Brentford obviously have got the best home record in the Premier League. I personally think that would be a good game. So that was my vote. However... So you didn't want to do this game? Well, the powers that be, where the real power lies in the hierarchy. Was Hare Chapman voting? Well, that's why I said the powers that be, the editors and Hare Chapman, all opted for West Ham.

because they felt that that would have been where the story is. Now, whether they were expecting a change of manager at this stage, who knows? So you can imagine now that I reckon Brighton at West Ham will be a goalless draw and there'll be goals aplenty at Brentford.

And you can only imagine how I'll be feeling on Saturday afternoon. Mind you, you had a terrific match last Saturday afternoon. It was, yeah. I've been blessed, actually, a couple of games with Liverpool of late. The 3-3 at Newcastle was a really good game. And as you say, the 2-2 with Fulham last week had everything. It was a good storyline, good drama. Yeah.

And I only hope that West Ham Brighton can match that. So Ian's with Paul Robinson for that game. John's doing a double header this weekend. So 5.30, John's alongside Mark Schwarzer for Crystal Palace Arsenal.

5 Live, 2 o'clock on Sunday is Everton-Chelsea. I'm with Pat Nevin for that one. Manchester United-Bournemouth, 2 o'clock on Sunday is on Sports Extra. And the other two games, full commentaries available via the BBC Sport website, are Fulham-Southampton and Leicester Wolves. And then John's in action again.

alongside Clinton Morrison for Tottenham Liverpool, which kicks off at half four. And John, I bring you this email. So the emails are flooding in. Genuinely flooding in. We have had... No, they're genuinely flooding in. TCV at bbc.co.uk.

And rest assured, I mean, we're not going to be able to get through all of them in only a couple of episodes, but they are all being read. We love them all. There's some brilliant questions in there. And some of them, one email, I think will cover an entire episode with some of the questions we're being asked. So please keep sending them in. We're loving them. I'm going to read this one, though, today from Adam, who's a Charlton fan. He says, hello, very much enjoying TCV, amusing and insightful stuff.

What I really want to say is how much I enjoy listening to the co-commentary team of John and Clinton. There is something really special about this partnership, a true warmth and joy in one another's company, plus all the intelligence you seek in reporting from the press box. So my question is, what makes for a great co-commentary team? And are there any from decades past who

that you have admired. I know exactly what Adam is talking about there. Clinton is so much fun to work with, isn't he? I mean, you do not get a more enthusiastic summariser than Clinton Morrison. You do not, yes. So first of all, thank you very much, Adam, for your very kind comments. But, you know, we know, don't we, in broadcasting, very much, it's sometimes the opposites that work best, isn't it?

And I think, you know, if we not work together, I'm not sure that necessarily the powers that be would put me and Clinton working together. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. But the other thing is with Clinton, right from the outset, I think of all of the probably dozens and dozens of matches we've covered together now, it's remarkable how often we get very, very exciting matches to cover together. And that always helps, doesn't it? Yeah.

The only thing I will say with Clinton is, and our listeners will know this if they've listened to a lot of our coverage, whoever he's on with that week is his favourite presenter, commentator. He'll say that. I know that's a little joke of his. But what about you, Ian? I mean, you know, in your 20 years plus, you know, you'll have commentated with so many different people. And John's right, you know, different relationships work differently.

different ways in the commentary box, but are there any in particular that either you enjoy commentating with or people you listen to that you think work well together as partnerships? Is it only 20 years plus? Is it not more than that? As you know, I was 44 in 2019. It was funny, you know, Ali, when I first joined Radio 5 in 2002, I'd worked with John Anderson at Radio Newcastle and then at Radio Leeds I worked with Peter Lorimer and Norman Hunter. And when you're working with the same person week in, week out...

they will cover you for your mistakes, basically. You're a team. And when I first joined Radio 5, all of a sudden you're working with Graham Taylor, Mark Lawrenson, Jimmy Armfield, Terry Butcher, Chris Waddle, and different pundits each week. And I don't know about you, but I felt I really had to sort of like raise my game every week because they didn't know me. And I remember the first time I worked with Jimmy,

And this is somebody who I'd grown up listening to on Radio 2 and had a real affection for. And when I first worked with him, I was really, really nervous. And I told him before the game, because he'd arrive, he'd have his little notebook, he'd tell a little joke, he'd work out the two teams. And then that was in the days when we shared a commentary, of course. And as the junior member, you know, working with either an Alan Green, a John or a Mike Ingham, Ron Jones, Ian Brown, I would always go first.

And on this particular occasion with Jimmy, I did the commentary and at 22 and a half minutes, I handed over and I got a pat on the knee. And Jimmy always used to do that. Just give you a little pat on the knee. And that was his way of saying, there you go, son, you'll do for me. And that meant a lot because I thought the world of Jimmy. Do you remember he would also say, if you'd had an exciting game and things had gone well, at the end, in a similar style, Jimmy would say, that wasn't bad at all, that. For you, that's...

The master of understatement. Yeah, we all miss Jimmy Arnfield. He used to love commentating with Jimmy.

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the football daily podcast on BBC sounds we've got another guest on the commentators view appearing this week and this is a man who definitely knows a thing or two about commentary teams and what works having covered lots and lots of different sports four or five live and others around the

the globe. Steve Bunce joins us on the podcast this week. Steve, particularly because obviously big fight this weekend. So as well as all the football commentary, Five Lives got the big one in Riyadh. Usyk against Fury part two. How are you? How's things? Where are you speaking to us from? I'm speaking from Paddy Whiteside mansions. He's got a regular slot out here. It's the worst room. It's the worst room in the worst hotel in

In fact, out to my right, if we could pan around, which we can't, there's a car park that can hold about 500 coaches. And once or twice each week, because I've stayed in this hotel before, this is a true story. The car park fills up with coaches. And those are the mecca buses. That's where all of the people going on hards come at three in the morning for the 12-hour drive.

600 kilometres away to Mecca. So if you're ever awake at four in the morning doing some radio or whatever, which I've occasionally done because I never say no, I'll look out there and there'll be a thousand lights with like 5,000 people getting on 50 coaches, 500, 200 coaches. It's really...

Truly was I. So that's why I'm just going to say that for a moment now, I was getting a bit of imposter syndrome because I thought you were going to lump me in with you experts, you geniuses. I'm an expert on commentary teams. OK, let's make sure we're fully clear on that. Not on being in any way linked with a commentator. Commentary teams. I'm an expert on. So I'm really pleased, ABB, that you clarified that.

So one sport that none of us have ever commentated on, Connor, who was on last week, has done, is boxing. Stephen, we have had some brilliant boxing commentators on Five Live. How difficult a sport is it to commentate on on the radio? On the radio, I think it's easier sometimes than on television, to be perfectly honest with you. And that's because generally, generally, not as a hard rule, but generally...

That man sitting down next to me, whether it's Mike Costello or whether it's John Rawlin, are just great voices. John's proved that because he does crufts now every now and again. So we know that John can switch to doing dogs and does them beautifully, if you don't mind me saying so. And John obviously made a seamless switch to TV. But sometimes when you're sitting with those guys, and they both do it really differently, like massively differently. Costello, for instance, when he did radio, the sort of 10 years I had with Costello, is he insists on doing the entire round solo.

takes a breath when the bell sounds, opens his arm up, gives it to me for 58 seconds. I give it back to him. Whereas Rawlin would go, I don't know, the first round, he'd do the first 30, 40 seconds. Then he'd just pass over. You'd come, it would be more interactive. So they're totally different. And I've no idea if there's no, there's no guidebook on being a boxing commentator. And I've never asked,

Mike, why did you decide to do the full round? And I've never asked John, why did you decide to break the rounds up? In fact, the first time I ever thought about it was about two minutes ago as I opened my mouth and started talking then, which is a bit of an affliction of mine in all fairness. Steve, even going back before John as well, and this was the old BBC Radio commentaries, I certainly remember Ian Dark saying,

Absolutely. As a radio commentator on the boxing, who was absolutely superb. And then before that, it was Des Lynham, wasn't it? Who would do a lot of the commentaries. And Eamon Andrews before that. Eamon Andrews. I've got some archive of Eamon Andrews from the 60s, but I've got a brilliant piece of Des Lynham commentary

commentary from the 1974 Commonwealth Games which I believe are in New Zealand where Dez not many people know this but Dez loved an underdog he genuinely loved an underdog it was this really I mean you know we all know Dez as smooth Dez you know like Dez the smoothie and Dez peerless beautiful wonderful but back in 1974 when Dez was a little bit younger he

Yeah.

Steve, what's it like in a boxing commentary position? Because bearing in mind, when we do the football, we tend to be, whether we're low down in the stand or high in the stand, we're still in an elevated position, looking down on the action that unfolds in front of us. But I would imagine from your position, you're looking up rather than down. Well, we do a thing on Five Live, and no doubt the boys will do it tonight, where we tap the canvas from our seat. I lean forward and I tap the canvas. That's how close we are.

I've got countless notepads, shirts and pictures of me with blood spots on my head from the action in the ring. We can see and hear. We can see people's eyes changing. So when people say to me, Bunty, how do you know what his eyes look like? I said, because he climbed up six feet in front of me. He didn't know where he was. He grabbed the rope no more than three feet from my head and looked out vacantly above my head. Boxing commentators...

I'm not quite sure if there's another sport that you can get that close. Taekwondo and judo, I know I've done those. Trust me, I'm an Olympic veteran. You're still up in the gods. But with boxing...

You are right there. You can touch the canvas, Denno. I mean, I don't even know if there's a position. I don't know. What would be the position in football that would be even close? I was going to say, Steve, we get pretty close on the golf, actually, strangely. That's true. That is one way you can be actually worryingly close because really of how quiet you need to be sometimes. But

But it's still not as close as the boxing. Really, there's about 10 people in the world closer to the action, or 12 maybe. The other commentary team, maybe a couple of judges, the spare referee. So there's like three of you, this side, a judge that side, another judge that side, a couple of commissioners. There's maybe 10 of you, including the referee.

that are as close to action in some times as being viewed globally. Now, when people talk about privileged position, that's a privileged position. I think the best bit of summarising I have heard in any sport in 2024 on Five Live, I was sitting in the car on my way from one game. I think I've been at Selhurst Park doing a Crystal Palace game and I was on my way down south to go and do Brighton the following day and Dubois Joshua was on.

And I'm going to have to apologize here. I can't remember the name of our summarizer. Shane McGuigan, Barry McGuigan. Yeah, there we go. And we lift the mic ahead of the round that Joshua gets knocked out in. We managed to lift the mic in his corner, don't we? And we hear the instructions going to Anthony Joshua. And Shane McGuigan jumps in as quick as a flash, doesn't he? And says, if he does that.

He's going to get knocked out. And then, bang, two minutes later, it happened. And he actually says, doesn't just say he's going to get knocked out. He says, if he throws that right uppercut from that position, Dubois is going to time it and counter with a right hand. So it wasn't just he'll get knocked out. He actually, it was interesting.

Perfect. Shane absolutely nabbed it. And if I could say, I was sitting with Carl Frampton in the TV studio and he said the exact same thing. So I'll give Carl Frampton a good plug as well. But Shane nabbed it. And it's really interesting, ABB, how many people remember that piece of commentary because it got played out. BBC Social stuck it out and it had lots and lots of hits.

And people out here, in fact, during this week, people have mentioned it to me saying how precise he was. And it was. It was a brilliant piece of co-commentary. We've had some good pundits on the boxing team, ABB. Don't worry about that. No, I know that. I know that. I was also thinking as well, chaps, that boxing, I mean, all sports have great lines in them, but some of the...

the great commentary lines of all time. Obviously, Ali winning the title. That was Harry Carpenter, wasn't it? He's won the title back. He's done it! Was Harry getting there, Frank, as well? Getting there, Frank! Yeah, he was. That was Harry. I mean, I think Harry, between the two of us, God bless his soul, he hated being reminded of that. So if ever drunks would come up to him at functions, like a ward ceremony, they'd go, Harry! Harry, just do that line! Do my...

My dad loved you. Just say it into this phone, Harry. Go on, get in there, Frank. He used to hate it. You can imagine. He hated it with a passion. And Steve, I mean, we're going to be hearing plenty from you. I mean, not just the fight itself. So we got the fight live. I think Mark Chapman's presenting it around. So from 8 o'clock, after the football, basically, on Saturday on Five Live. But loads of boxing podcasts coming from you as well. Yeah, we've done one every single day this week, Steve.

We go on the road. We go into the desert and we speak with camels because I've got this affinity with camels. It's an odd thing. So we like to film that. And we try to see... So we were with 92-year-old Bob Arum two days ago. Now, Bob Arum promoted Muhammad Ali World Tidal Fight in 1966.

And then we're with Eddie Hearn, who out here has got a different job. He's no longer a promoter. He's DAZN's main pundit. And we were sitting by a swimming pool with Eddie Hearn an hour and a half after sitting with 92-year-old Bob Arum on a suite on the 58th floor. So what a privileged world we wander through. What a business, eh? What a life.

Enjoy it, Steve. We'll be listening. Thanks for us. Steve, when it comes to the World Cup in Saudi Arabia in 2034, if anyone from the BBC comes to you and says, have you got any suggestions of where we might stay? Not here. Say to them, no idea whatsoever. I can't give you any help. I can't help you whatsoever.

But I can help you out of a camel farm, 10 minutes for December, Ian. How about that? Camels are us. Camels, yes. Accommodation, no.

Thanks, fellas. Have a good one. Merry Christmas. Thanks, boys. Thank you. Yeah, Tyson Fury against Oleksandr Usyk this weekend live on Five Live and BBC Sounds. So, Ian, I think you'll probably remember from our last podcast, we threw a question ahead to Clinton Morrison, who was on the Premier League review, asking him for his favourite Premier League striker.

He went with Alexander Isak currently as his favourite Premier League striker. So that's our answer to that one. We've now had a question from the EuroLeague's pod. What is the best goal you've commentated on this year scored by a European player? So have a think about that. We're all Europeans, surely. Well...

That's true, John. I did think about that. I know what you mean. And by the way, you can listen to that podcast on the Football Daily feed via the BBC Sounds app. In the latest one, they're digging into the La Liga title race, just a point at the moment separating Barcelona, Atletico and Real Madrid. Their question, though, was the best goal you've commentated on this year scored by a European player. Ian? Quite easy for me. Lamine Yamal.

Semi-finals of the Euros in the summer. That was last season. This year, 2024. Yeah, this year the question was. I thought, you know, for those who are paying attention. I withdraw that. I withdraw that comment. Yeah. Shall we do that again? Do you want me to do that again? La Mine et Mal, semi-finals of the Euros in the summer. Goal down to France in the semi-final in Munich.

And as mentioned, Jimmy Armfield earlier, as Jimmy said, we were right behind it in our coverage position. And he's about 25 yards out from goal, shifts it onto his left foot and curls it in off the left hand post, brought Spain level. But also he then became the youngest ever goal scorer in the history of the European Championships.

or the European Championship finals. So it was just a monumental moment from such a talented young man and it was great to be there and to see it in the flesh. What are you going with, Ali? Well, mine also from the Euros, actually. Shaqiri's goal for Switzerland against Scotland, which was a hammer blow for Scotland in their second group game.

Well, Jordan Shaqiri, remarkably, and this is actually what... It didn't throw me in the commentary, but it was a stunning goal. I don't know if people remember, Anthony Rawson, unfortunately, gave the ball away. He sort of passed the ball into no-man's land, about 35 yards from the Scottish goal. Shaqiri had done nothing in the game.

and just stepped up, ran onto it, and hit one of the shots that, I mean, Angus Gunn threw himself. He was at full stretch, and he'd read it, and he could see where it was going, but he just couldn't get there. You know, it's one of those classic no goalkeeper in the world is going to stop that, or, you know, even two goalkeepers wouldn't have stopped that. It was one of those shots that went flying into the top corner.

But there was a stat in about Shaqiri and that goal, because I think that meant he'd scored in six consecutive major tournaments, Euros, World Cups, Euros, World Cups, like that. And it put him in really elite company. You know, there's only a couple of other players, I think. There was some record that he kind of equaled or joined a list of players.

And I got a bit tangled up in trying to deal with that record in the moment of the goal, which was not the right thing to do. The right thing to do was just appreciate the beauty of the goal. The stadium went nuts because the Swiss fans were fabulous over there. Should have done the goal in just the moment and then come back to the stat afterwards. But because I'd gone into the game with the stat in my mind...

I just sort of started speaking, you know, because you're just, it's a train of thought, isn't it? And as he scored it, I'm thinking, blimey, that's quite an important goal. But actually, I should have dealt with it a little bit later. But the goal itself, John, was a stunner. That's the best one I've done. What's yours, John? I'm going to go for one I didn't actually commentate on, but I was sitting next to you in the commentary box. Do you remember? It was that night with Greece-England or England-Greece.

at Wembley when I was having throat problems, wasn't I? And therefore, I sat out the commentary that night. But it was Vangelis Pavlidis who scored what was a really historic goal for Greece, wasn't it? Right at the end for Greece to win...

Beat England, first time they'd beaten England. In fact, was it first time they'd beaten England full stop? Certainly the first time they'd beaten England at Wembley. So for Greece, such an historic goal. But also the emotion that's tied up in it because it was the day after the death of George Baldock was announced. And, you know, clearly the Greek players, everyone connected with the Greek national team found it incredibly difficult, 24 hours.

And for them to be able to score that goal, and Vangelis Pavlidis, I mean, what a name as well, Vangelis, to score a goal like that. It just needed the chariots of fire music to be playing underneath it. I mean, it was a brilliant, brilliant moment for Greece and for Vangelis. Another one I think we'll come back to, we've had an email on this, but there are certain names, aren't there, that are brilliant. I love commentating on certain names that score goals. So I did one recently on Baumgartner.

Christoph Baumgartner. That's such a good name, I think, to deliver in commentary. Earlier this season, I got to do a header by Jack Hinshelwood. Hinshelwood, as well, is another... You can really go at... You know, the slightly longer names. I mean, Vangelis Pavlidis is another...

Brilliant name. But you know, certain names really, you know, you can really attack them, can't you? Didn't someone send us an email about this? Yeah. About the Solanke goal that he scored against Chelsea. And I haven't actually thought about that, but it is a very good name to wrap your tongue around when he scores a goal. Giovanni Van Bronkhorst was a great name for a goal scorer. Right, we are on to Clash of the Commentators.

Acronym is COTC. I mean, last week this was Commentators on the Clock, which is also COTC. I'm not entirely sure what's coming this week, but this could be the clash of the commentators on the clock. So this could be COTCOTC. Denno, take it away. Yes, it is me, because the score's on the doors. I'm zero from three, so the producer Nathan thought I needed a rest this week.

A little bit of time on the sidelines to ease my bruised ego. Ali, you're two from two. Rested, I think, is the word, John. And John, you're one from one. So that means that one of the 100% records will have to come to an end. Something has got to give. And we'll do it the same as last week. So it's a 30-second stop clock.

And you've got to give as many correct answers as you can within that 30 seconds. John is going to go first. Okay. And is this going to be the same question or different questions? Same question. But because Ali knows what to do, Ali basically disconnects. It's the equivalent of putting you in a soundproof booth, John. A bit like Mr. and Mrs. It is, yeah. So he's disconnected.

And Saturday, as we know from Steve, Saturday's big heavyweight rematch with commentary on Five Live is Oleksandr Usyk versus Tyson Fury in Riyadh. That's the capital city of Saudi Arabia. I want you to name as many Asian capital cities as you can. Let's start the clock. Okay, Riyadh, Doha, Beijing, Bangkok,

Manila, Almaty, Damascus, Jerusalem, I think it is now, Tehran, Iraq, Baghdad, and Ulaanbaatar. Ooh, whether that one counts, I'm not too sure. I think it was before the end of the music. I think there would have to be a stewards' inquiry about Almaty as well. Yes, Ali, you can put your headphones back on.

So we'll have to see whether that counts. I'm going to have to wait for Nathan to get... Obviously, don't say anything, John. I'm not going to say anything. Don't worry. But, you know, we're going to have to wait and see because Nathan is the adjudicator. So he didn't hear any of that? Ali would not have heard any of that. I've not heard a thing there, John. No. Plain and by the book, John. I can tell you...

that John gave 10 correct answers and one incorrect answer, which we will discuss once you have given your answers to this question. So we're looking, because of the fight being held in Riyadh, commentary on Five Live and BBC Sounds, you have got to name as many Asian capital cities as you can, and the clock starts now.

Crikey, I'm going to be terrible at that. Tokyo, Beijing, Asian capital cities. I'm having an absolute blank here. I can't even think of Asian countries here. This is a disaster. John's got this in the bag. Riyadh? We've just been talking...

That's not a good answer. I've had a mare there. Well, I've got to say, I don't have to wait for the producer to tell me how many you got right. That was dire. Because you got three. That was terrible. Go on, John, what did you get then? Bangkok. Manila.

Yeah, very good. Damascus? Tehran? Baghdad? What was the one I got wrong? You pulled out Ulaanbaatar, the capital of Mongolia. What was the one I got wrong? The one you got wrong was Kazakhstan. Astana in Kazakhstan. Is the capital. Almaty is the largest city in...

Not the capital. So my 100% record, well and truly gone. Well played, John. There'll be another clash of the commentators on the way in the next episode. We should probably chat some football at some point during this podcast, chaps. Weekend action, I've already gone through it all. John, you're on a double header this weekend. So you've got Palace Arsenal on the Saturday, Tottenham Liverpool on the Sunday.

Anything in particular you're sort of looking forward to in terms of the football coming your way this weekend? It's got to be Tottenham against Liverpool. The last two matches I've commentated on at Tottenham have been 3-4 and 4-3. And there must be every... I cannot believe that both sides will not score in this match. And so it could be another high-scoring...

and also Clinton's with me for this match. So I'm thinking that we might continue our record of exciting matches together. It has the ingredients for a Christmas cracker, doesn't it? It does. I wish I'd said that. I was actually thinking, I wish I'd said that at the Tottenham Manchester United Cup tyre. It was a real Christmas cracker. Might go in the glossary later, that. Also, Arnaud Slott...

and I know this from I've covered a lot of Liverpool of late in his game so far his teams have failed to score just once all season in the 1-0 defeat at home to Nottingham Forest so they do have a habit of scoring and without Canarte at the moment they are conceding one or two aren't they so you know they're not quite as tight at the back as they were when that partnership that Canarte Van Dijk partnership was as good as there was I would have said in the Premier League this season

And just in terms of how the narrative might play out on Sunday, I'm at Goodison Park at 2 o'clock. If Chelsea win that game at Everton, which is definitely not a given. I mean, I think Everton last weekend really showed how stubborn they can be and resolute they can be. And I think if you're an Everton fan, and obviously the takeover's happened this week as well, so there's a lot swirling around the football club. But just in terms of on the football pitch, a 0-0 at Arsenal...

is a very good result for Everton. And it just shows you again, they are going to be, I think in terms of the teams that are down at the bottom of the table at the moment, they are the most capable of all of them, of just digging out those really hard-earned points.

here and there but I think it's going to be quite interesting in Goodison Park on Sunday given that news as well about the takeover If Everton got a goal or a couple of goals up in that match if they get early goals that could be a real test for Chelsea don't you think? Very much so Can I just say as well when we're mentioning Liverpool Ian sent us an email last week we talked about the Anfield commode on top of the now Sir Kennedy O'Glees stand

And Ian not only sent us an email, he also sent a couple of photos saying, greetings from the Anfield commode. Still there, lads, and we still use it. And who is that, Ian? Does he say what he does? He's a steward. Oh, right, so he works up there, OK. Yeah, it's still there. How reassuring. Just talking about Goodison Park, actually, I mean, potentially, I don't know what the rest of my schedule is going to be this season. Could be the last commentary...

that I do at Goodison Park. And actually, I was just thinking about trips to Goodison Park, one of my favourite trips.

Well, sort of most dramatic moments I think I've ever witnessed commentating came at Goodison Park. Do you remember under Frank Lampard when they came back from 2-0 down against Crystal Palace a few seasons ago? I remember listening to that. And 1-3-2. Great noise, great commentary. Oh, it's amazing. You know, noise like that. Wasn't that with Clinton as well? It was. It was. It was a Thursday night as well, wasn't it? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And the funny thing about that was, and we often talk about the commentary position at Goodison Park there with the old pillar being in the way...

Everton were playing to that goal away to the left of the commentary position. And with that third goal, Calvert-Lewin scored it. And I was pretty sure that Calvert-Lewin had scored it. But it was a packed penalty area and he was hidden behind the stanchion. I thought, what I'll do is use that classic old commentator's trick of...

you know, let's see who they run to in the celebrations, who gets up and claims it. And, you know, often they gather around the goal scorer. But because it was such an important goal and it meant so much for Everton, they basically all ran off as if they'd scored it in different directions. I was thinking...

I'm not entirely sure who scored that. So I got lucky, really, and guessed it was Calvert-Lewin. So Everton, Chelsea, yeah, Tlock. And if Chelsea win that game, then they will be top of the Premier League table. But obviously there is Tottenham, Liverpool to come. Right, to finish, the great glossary of football commentary. John, it's changed. It's not the great dictionary. It's the great glossary.

Yeah, are you happy with that? Very happy. Who was it who suggested that? Have we got the name? Steve. Newcastle fan Steve. Yeah, Steve was absolutely right there. And it's a much better title, isn't it? The great glossary of football commentary. Yeah, so we've got one for this week. I need to congratulate you, though, John. I don't know if you did this deliberately or not, but I was listening to you during the Manchester derby and you talked about Manchester United being rooted for the best.

in the bottom half of the Premier League. And last week's word that went into the glossary was rooted, about teams being rooted, either at the bottom or in the bottom three. I didn't do that. Did you not? In actual fact, I haven't listened to last week's podcast. Right. Is that because you weren't on it? That's another snub to Connor. I haven't had time. Not only did he say that Connor would be late and he wasn't, he then didn't listen to it because Connor was appearing instead of him. I didn't have time. I've been trains, planes, automobiles all over Europe. Right.

Here we go. Pete's got in touch this week. This is his application for a term to go into the Great Glossary. We need to talk about the phrase denied by the woodwork. No, you were denied by missing the net. The woodwork didn't have a say in it. You missed. If the woodwork had moved and somehow diverted your on-target goal attempt, then you could legitimately say denied by the woodwork.

but commentators use it and I love the phrase and it needs to go in the glossary. Denied by the woodwork. So do you get the logic and what do you think about the phrase? Definitely. That goes straight in. And it reminds me, I remember reading a letter...

You know the magazine When Saturday Comes? On a very similar theme to this. And the person who wrote the letter was taking issue with the fact that actually the frame of the goal in the modern world is not made out of wood. It's made out of what he described as resistant material. So actually, he said when that phrase is used, it should be denied by the resistant material.

not the woodwork. Had you listened last week, we actually had correspondence which pointed that out. Use the phrase resistant material. Well, not quite, but the premise of it is the same. But Connor had his say regarding that. But denied by the woodwork can definitely go in. Definitely. Right. Denied by the woodwork is going into the glossary. Thank you, Pete. Suggestions come to TCV at bbc.co.uk. So any of your questions for us,

but also your suggestions for the great glossary of football commentary. And of course this week we should put in a real Christmas cracker. Do you go for those ones, the really obvious ones like that? Or if you do, do you do it with your tongue firmly planted in your cheek? Yeah, it has to be delivered a certain way, I think that does. It's like all the firework ones around bonfire night. Halloween? Friday the 13th? Fright night and all of that.

That's the one. Right. That is it for the commentators view this week. Thank you very much for listening. The next episode of the Football Daily will be in focus with Scott McTominay and Billy Gilmore. So that's going to be an interesting one. Life over with Napoli and Serie A. Then on Sunday, it's the Premier League review. Rick Edwards in charge of that this weekend with Nigel Riokoka and David James. Do we have any questions for Nigel and David this

for the Premier League Review podcast coming your way Sunday night, Monday morning. Yes. Go on, Ian. Before John poses the question, Rick Edwards was quite dismissive of my question last week. Oh. So I'd be tempted to say, no, he's on a yellow card. He's on a one-match ban. But anyway...

Go on, John. I think it's a really good question, this, at the moment. And I've heard several goalkeepers talk about it and come up with different answers. Who does David James think is, right now, the best goalkeeper in the world?

Good question. There we go. Hopefully that will get answered in the Premier League review. We will be back in 2025. Have a lovely Christmas, everyone. Thank you for listening. Emails to tcv at bbc.co.uk and have a great Christmas. BBC Sounds. Sporting giants. Delve deep into the lives and careers of some of the biggest names in sports. And hear from those who know them best. In Clive.

He is looking always for the perfection. It was something that he'd worked towards all of his career. When I saw him the first time play, I said, we have a player here. Listen on BBC Sounds. Giovanni Van Bronckhorst. Yoga is more than just exercise. It's the spiritual practice that millions swear by.

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