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BBC Sounds. Music, radio, podcasts. This is Five Live Sports. The Monday Night Club with Steve Crossman. Listen on BBC Sounds.
Welcome to the Monday nightclub. Steph Horton, former England captains with me in studio. Hello. Hi. I'm good. How are you? Yeah, good. Excellent. We've got Chris Sutton. We've got Adam Crafton from The Athletic as well. Hello, fellas. Hello, Steve. Hello. Quick quiz question to get us going tonight. Adam, for you. All right. So it's not that difficult. Who tweeted? And I promise I'll stop going on about the golf scene.
Who tweeted last night, the Masters is a wonderful listen on Five Live Sport. First class team in Augusta. Clue, their previous tweet, Rangers have broken the world record for celebrating a draw. Oh, could it begin with Chris and end in Sutton? I don't know. Would it begin with Chris and end in Sutton? Well, it might do. Yeah, I think so, Steve.
Which tweet did you like the best? Definitely the five live golf one, because it's one that I'm allowed to get involved in wholeheartedly, you see. I don't have to stay clear of it. We're going to start with Manchester United. Ruben Amorim dropped Andrea Nana for their game at Newcastle on Sunday. The idea being to allow him to rest and disconnect. So I'll say Bayende came in for his Premier League start, first Premier League start. I think it backfired, Chris, didn't it?
Yeah, I think so. Look, I don't have a problem with goalkeepers being dropped or rested. I don't see really why they should be any different to any other player in that respect. We know that it's not the norm in many ways, obviously.
Look, I mean, it's up to Amber him what he wants to do, of course, but taking him out of the firing line, I'm not so sure that was such a good thing. By end, I had a nightmare. But the whole principle of dropping a goalkeeper, I don't have an issue with. I mean, we'll find out on Thursday whether it's done any good or not, won't we? I think it's probably created more stir around Inanna rather than actually like...
He said it was a bit of a disconnect, but ultimately everybody's going to be waiting for that team sheet on Thursday, whether he's going to perform. I mean, I think he's performed quite well in the Premier League. I mean, he's had a lot of errors, but at the same time, I feel as though that could be a team thing rather than just him. But...
And under me, I think as a player, you want to play as many games as you possibly can. I don't think this will be any different. But I do feel as though this has created a bit more of a stir by taking them out of the team. It's not as if Man United are in good form in the Premier League. They need to get points and they need to play well ahead of Thursday. And yeah, I think it's put Amir on even more pressure than he is now.
Adam, is it an issue regardless or is it only an issue because Manchester United lost 4-1 and Bayern didn't play particularly well? I mean, do you think the result would have been so different if Inanna had played yesterday? I'd have been 6-1.
Might have been 6-1, Chris says, yeah. So, I mean, Bayern made a mistake, what was it, for the third or fourth goal, where he kicks a poor pass. I thought apart from that, I didn't think he was particularly bad. I don't think he cost Manchester United that game. They were just beaten by a team that played much better than them in the second half in particular. So, I think Anana, it's not just been yesterday, it's kind of just been this week-long soap opera from the moment that he...
said what he said about Lyon, that Man United were way better. And you kind of knew from that moment on that something was going to happen in the game between Manchester United and Lyon, that either he was going to be absolutely brilliant or he was going to become the story for the wrong reasons. And unfortunately, that's what happened. I think over the course of his two seasons at Manchester United, he has cost the team.
a lot of points in Europe in particular. I mean, his Champions League campaign last season was really poor. And this season, again, he's not been that convincing. In the league, he's been a bit better. But, you know, if you're looking at you wanted someone to be an upgrade from what David De Gea was, I'm not saying De Gea was brilliant in his last season at all, but Anana has not been what Manchester United hoped he would be so far. Chris, would you play him on Thursday then?
Well, I would... If I was Ruben Amram, I would play who I thought was the better goalkeeper at this moment in time. And, you know, I mean, there is going to be all the scrutiny on him because, you know, how will he cope after being left out for his own good? You know, how is he going to... You know, his last touch cost Manchester United a goal in Lyon. So it was an enormous game for him. But clearly...
it's a big decision for Amrim to make, but I can't see him picking Bainda after. I mean, I know what Adam says, it was, you know, one error, but it was a bad old error.
Can I just ask you guys, as people who have actually played the game at an incredibly high level... Not in goal, though. No, but you have played at centre-back. You could have just said, can I ask Chris and Steph, but not taken. Well, exactly. I was going to say, you've tried at centre-back, to be fair, Chris, so you have an understanding of that part of the pitch. Nice compliment. What's it like...
What's it like when you aren't that confident in the goalkeeper behind you? Does the team feel it? Are you feeling supportive or are you thinking, God, can you just get his act together? It's a bit of a loaded question that, to be honest. I don't want to throw any of my ex-teammates under the bus as well, but...
I think it's hard. I think obviously I played centre-half for all of my career and I think you have a certain relationship with the goalkeeper and I get what Chris is saying. Goalkeepers, a lot of them do rotate in certain competitions, whether it's in a cup competition, but there's always kind of in them league positions, there's always a goalkeeper that starts. That's generally how it's been. That is just what's been happening for the last however many years in football, but
I'm a bit conscious when you keep rotating the keeper as a centre-half, and that's just me personally. I think sometimes you have a relationship, but I think mistakes do happen, and obviously goalkeepers get punished for their mistakes. And I think for me personally, it was always about trying to build confidence. And look, you know yourself when you've made a mistake, and I think that's the biggest thing for me. I think this whole thing about Inanna is...
It's a bit weird in my opinion. I think for me, you need to back your goalkeeper in this instance because, like you guys said, it's not as if he's got a really...
top level goalkeeper that's kind of fighting him for competition has got all this experience he's been about to get here there's just no comparison at the moment there's just nothing that would go okay which is the better of the two keepers because De Gea is by far the best keeper that United have had for a long long time so for me I think it's hard for a manager to manage that kind of situation but I honestly do think he'll play on Thursday if I'm being honest I think Inano will be in net I think he has to go with his experience and
that is the situation that Manchester United are in at the moment in time. You know, he caused himself a problem with the comment, didn't he? And, you know, got massive egg on his face. I think in terms of, you know, all the way through the Manchester United season,
there's a lack of confidence, a lack of belief. So we can sort of pinpoint Anana, but it's all the back of what they said. There's been worse players at Manchester United than Anana this season. But he may feel that he doesn't have that sort of confidence and connection with the three centre-halves in front of him. And I think that the consistency of Arsenal
or continuity in terms of players playing in front of him and you have that understanding of where they're going to move and how they're going to move and trust in them when he's popping the ball. I think that that is, you know, that's really important. But poor old Ruben Ambrim, you know, I mean, week in and week out, he's probably thinking, you know, who do I select? We're below par. We've been below par for a while now. You know, within every game, it's sort of, you know, it's a struggle.
So, you know, it is a big issue. He'll be hoping that his decision to rest Onana will, you know, will be one which pays off. But I think we're all sitting there thinking, not quite certain what's going to happen on Thursday night. And that's been the issue with Manchester United all season. Are you willing to say then, Chris, who you think has underperformed more than Onana for Manchester United?
I mean, you could say that most of the players are pretty much on par with him. I mean, who's performed well for Manchester United this season? Bruno Fernandes, would you say? I mean...
Garnaccio in little spurts. Dalot has been okay. Masraoui at times. But you wouldn't be saying the rest of them have done themselves too many favours. And that's the issue. And it's a big summer for Ruben Amrim. But I think regardless of just the game against Lyon, I think it's...
which is massive. I think there's a big end to the season for Ruben Amberham and Manchester United because at the start of the next season, if they continue their poor form at the start of the season, he's not going to have a lot of credit in the bank if they get off to a poor start.
I agree, Chris. I think you look at that squad and they are not Reuben Amaran players, I think, in terms of the system. And there's been so much kind of speak about how he's going to play him. And ultimately, he's not going to change the way he's going to play. He's going to play that 3-4-3 system and he wants them wingbacks getting up as much as possible. And I do feel as though I agree with you, Chris, in terms of Dalot. I think he's had a good season. I think he's consistent. You kind of know what you're going to get from him. And
I think even yesterday, Barnes' second goal, I think there's nothing the keeper can do with that. I think he's ran, took it from midfield, took it out wide, brought it inside and not one Manchester United player can get anywhere near him. So I think in that kind of team set up, the system, I think there's a lot of things that could be worked on and I think Inanna's probably...
being outed and rightly so for his errors I think when they are that costly to a team that you're winning with two minutes to go in Lyon and you're going to bring the game back to Manchester at Old Trafford and give yourself a chance then of course that criticism's there with a club that is Manchester United but it's a massive summer for Amaran I think he'll want to spend he'll want to get the players that he needs in to fill them specific positions we speak about three centre-backs it's
They are specific centre-backs that can do a bit of everything. They can bring the ball out, they can defend in the wide channels, they can defend centrally and they're tough positions to kind of fill without spending. You can't just not spend money. You have to go and spend money for the players that he wants to get. Can he spend, Adam? I mean, you know, the FFP stuff, is it as simple as that? He said one or two big players, didn't he? That's what he said the summer would be about.
Yeah, but what's a big player in value? Is that a £40m player? You don't get that much now for £40m sometimes. Even, you know, who was the centre-back they signed last summer? Jorgo, you're looking at close to £50m there. So I think from a summer point of view, I think a lot is going to depend on the next few weeks because if they get into the Champions League, the entire complexion of Manchester United changes.
from a club that won't be in Europe whatsoever to a club that has all that money that comes from the Champions League. If they don't win the Europa League, and as they are currently trending, it's not impossible they finish 17th.
in the Premier League. You look at the table right now, what is it, two or three points above Wolves? And actually, if they get through to the semifinals, they're probably going to drop more points in the Premier League because they'll be building up for these big games in Europe as well. Now, even between 17th in the table and 13th,
there is an £11 million difference in terms of the merit payments that you get for finishing in those positions. Now, that's pretty much the savings that Man United were trying to make from the latest wave of redundancies. So that would be swept away straight away. So really, it's going to come down to what they do in Europe this season. If they get back in the Champions League, for sure they've got money to spend. If not, they are going to have to sell to buy
in a really, really significant way. And that's why, you know, people keep kind of mocking when Man Utd players leave the club on loan and do well. But actually, someone like Anthony doing well at Real Betis or Rashford doing a little bit better at Aston Villa is exactly what Man Utd need to happen because they're going to need to cash in on some of these players. I just think, Chris, that's where Onana is so interesting is that
Because they haven't got, or unless they get in the Champions League, they're not necessarily going to have an absolute, you know, tons and tons of money to spend. Amarim said 1 or 2, so you can read that into a couple of players in big positions. Then people might say they need a centre-forward, people might well say, and do say they need a central midfielder. So if Onana is... They need a centre-forward.
Yeah, well, absolutely. So if Onana is safe in that sense from a goalkeeper, why do this? Why have this kind of... And obviously it's a story that's got out as well. You know, they've tried to handle Onana being dropped in a very sort of PR savvy way and I'm just not sure it's quite landed. Well, what can they say really though, Steve? Nothing? Yeah.
But then, you know, yeah, to say nothing and then, you know, we'd all, you know, we'd all come up with our own sort of idea on why they left him out and say that, you know, he's dropped. It was a big call and, you know, we've all talked about
why we think he made that call to take him out of the firing line. But he would have had his own reasons and feel for that. And, you know, Amram's been in, look, he's a young manager, but he's still been in management long enough to understand the risk
involved he felt it was the right thing to do and uh look we'll find out on thursday night if uh you know anana comes back and he has that he has that sort of demeanor where you know he struts his stuff and you know he on the outside he's brash and and confident and you know let's see what he does on thursday he never should have got involved with a you know with the
Stuff about saying that Manchester United were, you know, a much better side than Lyon. That was, you're just setting yourself up for a fall. And for Manchester United players to, you know, put their head above the parapet, you know, with stuff like that this season when they've been absolutely bang average. It was really, really odd.
Yeah, I think that just a little bit less talk and a little bit kind of doing what you need to do on the pitch is probably the right way to go about it. Obviously, Matich's comments probably got into his head a little bit as well. There's no way that he can hide from what he said. But ultimately, I think for me, psychologically, for Leon coming to Old Trafford on Thursday night, I think as an opposition, if Onana's in goal, then I think...
they'll be so positive with taking shots, taking chances. And this is why it's just a bit of a weird situation because ultimately I get Amoran in terms of being a kind of that human element of trying to protect the keeper, trying to protect him as much as possible. And,
giving a bit of rest to kind of mentally kind of get back into the game. But ultimately, if that was me and I was going to be playing against Manchester United on Thursday in a Europa League game, then you'd be like, OK, as much as you can take a shot at him, put him under pressure from corners, whatever that might be. And that psychological element probably lies at advantage with Leon at this moment in time. Shoot from kick-off. That's what I'd do. Shoot from kick-off. Yeah, have a pop.
Do they still, you've been in a dressing room most recently, Steph, do they still put up opposition quotes on the wall? Do they stick them up or is it handled slightly differently these days? Not for a long time, but I think with social, yeah, it's a big like, every piece of paper, but no, I think with social media, you can't hide from that now. I think even if you're trying your best not to look, it gets out somehow and you hear it, whether it,
whether it's on the radio or on Instagram or whatever, or even one of the girls would just say something and just try and wind you up. So there's no way you can hide from it, to be honest. Have you ever done that, Chris? No, well, we had a game at Celtic against my old club, Blackburn, where there was, you know...
We beat Blackburn Rovers 1-0 in the UEFA Cup and Graeme Souness, and Blackburn actually played better on the night, and Graeme Souness said it was men against boys, the game, but I don't know whether that was a bit of panto because he was ex-Rangers managers, but stupidly, from his point of view, they'd lost the game 1-0. And when we went down to Blackburn, you know,
I think it was, I don't know where the story came from that we'd pinned up on the dressing room wall at Blackburn, Sue Ness's comments, men against boys. That never was the case. I think from, although that story's on the round for a long time, from a sort of player's perspective, we were just disappointed with our own performance that particular night and wanted to put it right ourselves. But I think you do, I think it's sort of human nature that you do
want people to get egg on the face if they say stupid things. And that was certainly the, you know, the case with Souvenirs. But you can use that as motivation. That's, you know, that's not the worst thing. It's whatever, you know, whatever floats your boat, whatever motivates you, then, you know, that's not a bad thing. But, you know, Inanna saying that stuff, I don't know the Lyon players, but I'm sure they, you know,
would feel that they really want to put one over on him. That's just, that's sport, isn't it? I don't know if you noticed, Steph, when you walked into the studio, but there is a little sign blue tacked up which just says, Chris Sutton says you're a poor man's Mark Chapman. So that's what I read.
when I walk into the suit. I had to build his energy up when I came in as well. Yeah, yeah, I was really down, Chris. You really affected me. Not for the first time. We'll be back very shortly to talk about Alison's heroics for Liverpool with a new goalkeeper arriving in the summer. Have Arsenal taken a step backwards this season? And why is Luka Modric buying into Swansea City? Hello, hello. This is for the podcast for Ellen White. On the Football Daily Podcast. The Women's Football Weekly is back.
And we've added five more WSL trophies to the team. From the biggest talking points in the women's game to hearing from the biggest names. To have a little dip in the road is absolutely normal and I think that makes the environment a lot healthier. The club have been amazing, the girls have been amazing. I've been in the women's game for a long time now, so I know a lot of faces. The Women's Football Weekly podcast drops every Tuesday. Listen now on BBC Science. MUSIC
This is 5 Live Sports. The Monday Night Club with Steve Crossman. Listen on BBC Sounds.
Let's keep it with goalkeepers. Alisson, brilliant for Liverpool on Sunday, back from injury, keeping them firmly on course for the Premier League title. They beat West Ham 2-1. Virgil van Dijk scored a really late goal. Actually, they could be champions by close of play on Sunday. Whatever happens, it's in the post. Arna Slot said after the match, the second half was just all about Alisson. They could have scored two or three in two or three moments, like when Fulham did. Today, we were just lucky that Alisson saved us
a few times. It's quite interesting, Adam, because it's sort of the opposite situation to Manchester United. Liverpool do have a succession plan for Alisson. They've got Mamadou Chivili coming in from Valencia in the summer. Alisson's contract is up in 2027. They just don't look like they'll need the succession plan any time soon.
No, I mean, he gets some injuries, doesn't he? Probably more so than some of the other leading goalkeepers, you'd say. But when he's fit, he is the best in the world, you'd probably say at the moment. And some of the saves yesterday were incredible. I thought they really missed him. Although Kelleher has been sort of dependable and good when he's come in, I thought in the cup final against Newcastle,
I think Liverpool struggled without him in terms of how they build up, build out from the back, how they play. Even the Dan Byrne header, I think Alisson might have saved, to be honest. A bit harsh, maybe. You're not that sure, then. What was that, sorry? You're not that sure he would have saved. You said might? He just remembered how big Dan Byrne is and backtracked. And what a great header. Yeah.
It was a great header, but I think maybe Alisson moves his feet a bit quicker and has half a chance of saving that. But that's more a reflection of how brilliant I think he is, more than anything. I think for me that experience counts for Liverpool. I think that is in times in this season where, especially these last few games when they haven't been on top form, I think you've obviously probably got a little bit of an eye on winning the league, which rightly so, and the
They've maybe not performed as well, but I think Alisson has been a key player, and not just this season, for a number of years. I think you can't ever replicate that experience, but also them players that can stand up in big moments. Yesterday was just another...
not perceived as probably a massive match for Liverpool, but ultimately, I think in the kind of grand scheme of things and the way that the league's going to go, that could be a massive, important three points for Liverpool. And like you said, Steve, if they can potentially wrap it up on Sunday, which a big three points could be the difference of getting it done earlier than later. They're limping over the line, Liverpool, aren't they? It's a shame for the Premier League that Arsenal...
haven't put them under greater pressure. You know, their recent run Arsenal hasn't, you know, they've been dropping points left, right and centre. But, you know, as both Steph and Adam have said, there's nothing surprising about Alisson, though. I mean, we've become to expect that. I actually think Kelleher has been a brilliant backup for him. I do agree with, I don't know whether this is Adam's point, but
We'll go with that. Let's make it Adam's point. It's fine. Yeah, but you get to a cup final, you play your best goalkeeper. I do think that. I never understand why managers don't do that. You've got a chance of winning silver. Why on earth? Keller had the good goalkeeper, which he is. Why on earth wouldn't you play your number one in that situation? I've never, ever...
understood that. But yeah, but you know, he's, he's come good once again for them, big saves, big moments. But as I said, we've, we've, we've come to expect that from Alison. Another money question for you, I'm afraid here, Adam, on the similar lines to what we were just talking about with Manchester United. I think it's going to be really interesting to see the impact that the Mo Salah deal and the imminent Virgil van Dijk deal have
will have on what Liverpool can do this summer because there's a lot of money. I mean, new contracts are obviously different to signing players, but there is a lot of money going out there for those two to stay. And yet there's talk of Andy Robertson maybe being replaced at left-back. Certainly there's a lot of talk about right-back with Trent Alexander-Arnold expected to go. Central midfield. So do you think that is going to have a significant impact? I think it'll have an impact, but...
it's not to the extent of if you sign someone and then pay them that money on top as well. There's no transfer fee for those players. What you do have is Liverpool didn't make that many signings last summer.
So you're almost looking at two years of spending potentially moving into one summer. Now, what Arnaud Slott's done is kind of just exceeded and what the team's done is exceeded everyone's expectations. They're kind of well ahead of schedule. But, you know, I know that one of the things that Liverpool looked at when they hired Arnaud Slott was actually how at final there were times where he lost players.
and had to replace them and had to reshape a team and reconstruct a team and build a new one. So I think that's a skill set we've not really had to see from him yet, but I think it's one that they factored in when he came into the club, that he was someone that could deal with change. And I think how they move forward now is going to be fascinating because Trent Alexander-Arnold, who we now presume will leave,
I think that's everyone's presumption now. How you reshape a Liverpool team, and if Robertson was to go as well, without those full-backs that have been so, so key to when you think about this Liverpool team for the last five or six years or so as well. So that's going to be... I think we'll see a lot more about what Arnaud Slott's style really is next season. Do you think, Chris, that...
They have the answer at right back with Conor Bradley. Yeah, I do. Came to the fore, there were always question marks about him defensively. Everything which I've seen of Conor Bradley, you know, is he as good technically as Trent? Well...
probably not, but how many, how many players are in that position? You know, he's on a, uh, a different level to virtually everybody ability wise, you know, his ability to pass the ball long and short, uh, Trent, but in terms of athleticism, uh,
Conor Bradley can still play. I think defensively, 1v1 situations, I'd say maybe he's better than Trent. I think that in that right-back position, I think Liverpool are well catered for with everything I've seen from Conor Bradley. I think the left-back
position is fascinating because you said, Steve, the sort of rumour about Andy Robertson having had his day at Liverpool. I'm not so sure Simakas is...
real top level. So I think that that's a position which Liverpool will be looking at. And darling Darwin Nunes, I think the centre forward, he's been quite critical, hasn't he, of Darwin Nunes. And while I think it's been
massive for Liverpool to get the Salah deal done and on the brink of the Van Dijk one. I do think that it's remarkable Arnaud Slot winning a Premier League. Well, they've got a little way to go yet, but they are going to win the Premier League with very little change. But I do think that there's an element where this summer it feels like there has to be a bit more freshening up of the squad and players to come in to really lift the players who are already there.
I think I totally agree, Chris. I think once you win that league and I think it's so important that you don't stand still. Slot's come in, he's taken over Klopp's players and he's done remarkably well. I think they've been so impressive this season. But I think that strength and depth, I think we spoke about the full-back areas, even though Conor Bradley can...
Trent if he does go. I think you still have to have somebody to back him up and maybe a different type of right back. I think Conor Bradley, like Chris described, probably better than what I will, but he can do a bit of everything and he can 1v1 defend very well. He can join the attack and even though Mo Salah's signed a new contract, will he necessarily play every game that he has done this season and produce that level? Potentially not. I think this is where I think slot needs to be a little bit clever and I think that number nine position, I think,
obviously my husband's a Liverpool supporter and he's not very keen on Darwin either so I think they're all desperate for a new number nine to come in and I think
For me, when you win things, it's not about just standing still and going, OK, I think you take Man City off last season. They didn't sign, they signed Gundogan and they made some signs in January, but look where they are. They've underperformed the season because they didn't freshen up the squad. So I think generally that is the way that Liverpool will go and rightly so. I just wonder, Chris, whether Darwin Nunez is... There is a similar line there to what we were talking about with Onana. And what I mean by that is...
He is who he is now. You know, you look at Onani, you know what he's going to do. Darwin Nunez is going to be inconsistent. He's going to do some brilliant things. He's going to miss some massive chances. That's just who he is, isn't it? He's not going to change now or no? No, I don't think he is going to change. He's had long enough at Liverpool. But it's just...
It's more about the public nature of the calling him out from on the slot where, you know, he could have could have, you know, done it in the confines of a dressing room and, you know, kept his criticism under wraps. The fact that he's I can't remember him calling out too many other Liverpool players, Steve, this season. But for whatever reason, he's you know, he singled him out that.
Let's get it right. That doesn't bode well, does it, for Darwin Nunes? It is about... I still think that, you know, you have Darwin Nunes off the bench coming on for 25 minutes, 30 minutes. He's still a nuisance. But you're right. You're not quite sure what you're going to get from him. But that's the whole point, isn't it? Hanna Slott's not...
not quite certain what he's going to get from him, especially in the art of goal scoring. So that's the issue. So he'll be looking for an upgrade there. I feel as though with Nunes, I feel as though he needs a run of games. But I think at this stage in the season and probably around Christmas when you've got Champions League big games every two or three days, I think...
coming out and saying them comments. It says to me that he doesn't really have that 100% trust in him and he's trying to get him to have a reaction by saying them things and it's probably just not worked the way that he wanted to but I think Nunes is a striker that lives on confidence, lives on games but...
ultimately when you're fighting for a title and you know what works, are the likes of Jota or Diaz playing in that nine. It's hard to change that. I want to talk about Arsenal. So Arsenal obviously drew with Brentford. They're now 13 points behind Liverpool. So they're going to finish second again. I'm not breaking any news there. They're going to finish second again. So two seasons ago, second, five points off Manchester City. Last season, second, two points off Manchester City. This season, second...
at the minute, 13 points off Liverpool. So the big question, Chris, are Arsenal getting closer to a Premier League title or further away?
It depends which way you look at it. I think the maximum points they can get this season is 81. I think last season was 89. I think the alarming that you're looking at Arsenal this season, the goals they've scored, 57. I can't remember how many they got last season, but I think they're 30-odd whatever down on last season. So...
They haven't put up a challenge and a fight. And while you can think, well, second place is OK, I think we all thought this was the season where Arsenal were going to really push for a title. And that hasn't happened now. I mean, if Mikel Arteta wins the Champions League, it would have been a brilliant season. But if he doesn't win the Champions League, and I'm not so sure they will, then I do think there'll be Arsenal fans thinking, well, do you know what?
We have gone backwards this season in terms of a challenge in the Premier League. And, you know, Mikel Arteta has been there a long time. And that makes this summer crucial because last summer he could get away with not signing a striker because, you know, he talked about the goals coming from all areas of the team. But having Marino play as centre forward next season, I don't think that's going to wash with...
with the Arsenal support? Yeah, it definitely won't, I don't think. I think you're thinking when Saka gets injured, I think that was a big blow for Arsenal's title hopes automatically. I think you take his goals, you take his assists, but also the fear factor that he puts into defences when he's playing and he's playing on that right-hand side, I think that has been a big difference. And obviously Havertz with his hamstring, they've had key injuries to key players and
Ultimately, that says a lot about the squad as well when you're having to play a midfielder as a nine. There's no replacement as that nine. Obviously, Jesus did his ACL as well. So, yeah, I've hit it, but unlucky in injuries. But you look at them players, you're not going to probably guarantee 20-plus goals per season. The only player that you are going to do that is with Saka and he nearly hits that target pretty much most of the time. So, I think, obviously, he's kind of...
put all his focus on this Champions League game against Real Madrid and rightly so, especially after that first game at the Emirates where they were unbelievable in terms of the intensity, the aggression and what style of football that Arsenal play. But I think
Chris is right in the sense of what happens if that doesn't go to plan. What do Arsenal fans think of where their season has gone, especially around Christmas time and when Liverpool are potentially dipping in form, they've not really been there to kind of put more pressure on?
I completely agree. I think you can't discount the injuries as a factor. I know we always like to say, oh, there's no excuses once you're at a certain level. But if Liverpool had lost Thaler for two months between January and March, then you can imagine what might have happened. And also they lost Urdegaard earlier in the season as well. And obviously Jesus as well. But I still think if you look at the season as a whole, I think everyone would still say,
they would have had a better season if they'd have signed another forward in the summer, whether that's a wide player that scores goals from the wing or a centre forward, however you want to say it, because you can get goals across the forward line now in a way that maybe wasn't the case 10, 15 years ago. I think also when I've watched Arsenal this season,
They have seemed too over-reliant on set pieces for me. Although it's been a big strength of theirs, there's been certain games I've watched them in where they need to score a goal and they would take so long at times over these set pieces, whatever routines it is that they've worked on, that it almost takes some of the intensity out of the games. It was what I thought was so impressive last week against Real Madrid, where that intensity was back. They were actually taking corners quicker.
and every set piece was a bit quicker as well. And I think when they play at a higher tempo, they are a scarier team to play against. Whereas some of these league games which they've drawn, they've just been a bit...
a bit slow, really. And I don't think they've really believed they could win this league since November, December, to be honest. You know, when you've watched them play, although Liverpool have actually dropped a decent amount of points. How can you measure that, Adam? How can you say that they haven't believed that since November, December? I don't know whether that's... What would you base that on?
I think you can see it in the conviction with which a team plays, the intensity with which they play. How many times have we seen them in the Premier League play with the intensity and speed that we saw against Real Madrid last week? But is that down to injuries? You mentioned Odegaard missing a large part of the start of the season. Saka out. Can we... We are cutting them some slack for that.
They had injuries against Real Madrid. Gabriel was out of that game. They still had Mourinho up front. It wasn't a perfect situation. I just felt like they went into that game thinking there's really a trophy on the line here in a way that when I saw them at Everton recently, saw them at Man United recently. He played half a team though. The old white flag was out at Everton. The old we've given up, we're concentrating on Real Madrid. That was the Everton thing. Which is fair enough, surely, Chris, isn't it?
Well, it is if you beat Real Madrid 3-0 for a couple of set pieces. It worked all right. That's the thing as well. I mean, like you've all said, if Arsenal win the Champions League, it's been a spectacular season because they'll have won the Champions League. But I sort of wonder, Steph, whether the answer to the question is kind of somewhere within there, talking about Arsenal and an ascent forward. Because...
Because sometimes one signing, one player can be transformational in of itself. So if Arsenal are a centre forward away from winning or coming incredibly close again to winning a Premier League title, then they are getting closer. So it's a question of whether that's the case or not. I think with a number nine, an out-and-out number nine who can cause... You look at Haaland for City. He came in within his first two seasons. The numbers that he hit was scary. And them teams went...
Manchester City were coming against a low block. They were able to find ways to get Haaland to score and I think that was the difference between Real Madrid the other night for Arsenal. They had to play with intensity because it was a transitional game and Madrid commit so many bodies forward like Mbappe, Vinicius, Bellingham, Valverde from right back. So literally it's kind of like an attack v defence as soon as Arsenal win the ball. So the gaps were massively open. So
whereas Arsenal in the Premier League they come across teams that have figured them out in a sense of that they probably only have a few ways to score and I think if you can defensively sound you look at take Brentford on Saturday I know that Arsenal didn't put out the strongest team but if you're defensively resolute and you can get bodies behind the ball it's difficult without that number nine or without another winger that is like a sacker to be able to create some magic and in them spaces Arsenal struggle but I think Arsenal
A number nine for Arsenal this summer is priority without a doubt. Aston Villa have the big task of overturning a two goal deficit against Paris Saint-Germain in the Champions League tomorrow night. Let's hear from Morgan Rodgers. Got their goal in Paris. They took the lead, ended up losing 3-1. Here he is.
We're here for a reason. We deserve to be here. We've taken on any battle and opportunity that we've had in front of us this season, especially in this competition. And we've won the games that we needed to, to be where we are. So, yeah, you can maybe look and think our name and club probably don't deserve to be here. But that's not how we look at it at all. We look at the players in the group we've got and we think, yeah, we fully deserve to be here. We're fully competing and we want to keep going and keep pushing. The first leg, I think we gave a pretty good account of ourselves. Of course, there's details and areas that we want to improve on and
and learn from for the second leg but ultimately we know what they're like now we've played them we're kind of more comfortable in that sense of already playing them and this is something that is a task at hand we know what we need to do but we're excited under the lights at home playing in this competition in the quarter final there's not many places better to be and if anyone's going to turn it around it's going to be us and it's down to us and
I think we're excited for that challenge. We're looking forward to it. We know it's going to be difficult. We're not saying we're going to do it by any stretch of the imagination, but we're definitely going to give it a go and go out to win 100%. Chris, Morgan Rodgers looks born to play in the Champions League, doesn't he? Yeah, I mean, he's been... He's probably been, I think...
the best young player in the Premier League this season. He's been a real shining light. I've really enjoyed watching him. I'm looking forward to the game against PSG. And you think...
I was at the Bayern Munich game and the roof nearly came off the stadium when John Durant scored that brilliant goal. But I just, I can't see how they will go through against PSG. I think PSG will win the Champions League. I think they are such a well-balanced, well, it's not wow. I don't think it's a wow. We've all watched them play. I think it is a wow. Who's here?
Do you really? Well, they've never won it, so yeah. Well, they've got rid of all the big hitters now. But they've been here a lot of times before, Chris, and Barcelona are looking incredibly strong, so I think it's a wow. Yeah, but I don't see them not going through against Villa. They've got Ligue 1 wrapped up already.
already, haven't they? So they can concentrate on the Champions League and they just ooze class and quality. What man? Aston Villa, 24, 25% possession over in Paris. They're going to have to take the game to PSG. I think PSG
quite enjoy teams who come at them with the pace and the quality they have in forward areas but they use class and I'm hoping Aston Villa can do it but
Yeah, I think it might be a difficult one for them. Most people like to be wowed at, Steph. I know, I thought that was an appropriate wow for Monday Night Club. Thanks very much, I appreciate it. You're just not used to it. It'll be interesting if Villa get an early goal in terms of that dynamic. I think being at home at Villa Park and I think Chris, you mentioned that Bayern Munich game, I think that's obviously...
historic in the sense of a big game at Villa Park and to kind of set their Champions League group stage alight really and I mean we talk about Morgan Rogers I think if Villa are to do anything tomorrow night I think it's about them types of players about people that really enjoy playing their football at the moment he's full of confidence and
But I think for me, PSG are strong. They look like a together team, whereas previously with the likes of Mbappe there, it was kind of just about what he needed and what to try and get the best out of him. Whereas this is a team that is so brave by playing out-pressing
committing bodies forward and that's what we've seen against Villa a week ago. They do have Adam who I would say has probably been the well player in the Champions League this season even above Rafinha in Kvicikvar at Skellige.
Yeah, and I'm glad you said his name. I think we're all wowing that I got it right, to be honest. That's a wow. That's a wow moment. Absolutely. No, he's been really good. I mean, the other winger, Due, has been sensational the last few weeks in the Champions League as well. They just look really in control whenever you watch them play. There was a kind of probably a half-hour period at Anfield where they were under a lot of pressure. But apart from that,
It was one of the best performances I've seen against Liverpool over the last few years. They made Liverpool look like a poor team, in the first leg in particular, which is just really unusual to see that in a big Champions League tie. So, yeah, PSG...
I completely get what Steph's saying about if Villa get an early goal, the crowd will be up. But when I watch PSG at the moment, I feel like there's enough composure and calmness in that team that they can actually, OK, we've got a goal down. We'll keep the ball for a bit. We'll calm things down and work our way back into it. What could be an amazing tie is then Arsenal against PSG in the semi-final as well, potentially. Yeah.
or Real Madrid against PSG if that goes in a different way so I'm not as confident as Chris that PSG will win the tournament just because I think sometimes you can almost peak too early in these tournaments and maybe they've done that but Aston Villa I think it's going to be really tough for them but they'll have Watkins back right for this one yeah they will they will is Adam going to have a prediction for the tournament or is he just copping out then yeah
No, I'm just expressing scepticism about your predictions. That's more... That's better. That's fine. Many people do. I think Arsenal win it, personally. No wow from Chris for that one. No wow. No, just ridiculous. Is it? Send a forward, Arsenal. But Declan writes a couple of free kicks in the final. LAUGHTER
It's like another type of wow. Do you know what? They were set piece Arsenal 20 minutes ago. Now they're going to win the Champions League. I would just always back a team that can defend in these big, you know, these over two legs. Gabriel's out for the season.
Well, Kibbeo looked all right the other day, didn't he? He might be back for the final. Can I just say that? And I won't say who. I won't say who. I can say a former Premier League player because I work with loads of them. A former Premier League player that I work with said to me the other day, the second Declan Rice free kick was genuinely amazing. The first one, quote, give me five goes and I reckon I could do it. So there you go. Wow. Can we guess who the player was? Indeed.
I don't think you would be able to. You've got to name that player. No, I don't. You can't. Yes, you do. No, I don't. Yes, you absolutely do. No, I don't. Come on, Steve. No, I don't. Jo Hart. I think Jo Hart might have been able to do that. Come on, Norm. Come on. I'm just going to introduce a guest now. I'm not going to do the story until afterwards because it's just too good. Welcome to the Monday Night Club, BBC Radio Wales football reporter Chris Watham. Chris, lovely to have you with us. Hello, Steve. Good evening, everybody. Good evening. Hello.
I'm just going to do it. All right? Are you ready, Steph? I'm going to do it. Is Luka Modric about to buy some of Swansea City, Chris? Yes. Co-owner, minority investor, Luka Modric. I think he might have a chance of emulating that Declan Rice free kick, by the way. But no, he's not going to play at Swansea. I think he still fancies his chance of getting in the game.
in the side at Real and a certain World Cup next summer. But yeah, look, Steve, it's as bizarre, if you want, as it sounds, as astonishing as it sounds. And this is from a patch where I've covered Ryan Reynolds buying Wrexham. So yeah, it's caught a lot of us off guard, I'll be honest with you. And I think the club are quite surprised and quite happy it hadn't leaked before.
Today, as you put it, Luka Modric has bought a very small stake in Swansea City. Chances are we won't know how much money he will have put into the club. And to be frank, it's not about the money from the club's point of view. It's about the fact they can tap into Luka Modric's experience. He's looking at life after football. He's already got some business interests involved.
And he clearly wants to get into football ownership. And I think this is a chance to perhaps whet the appetite. So I'll just throw in here that I started my career in Swansea and I love Swansea, but still I'm going to ask why Swansea?
Very good question. And I look forward to trying to pin down Luka Modric, asking the same, the very same thing. Look, you know, as you mentioned Wrexham, we keep on asking why Wrexham? What I understand is that Swansea's ownership group have been working on attracting someone of Modric's ilk for some while. And this opportunity came up. They didn't want to go down the celebrity route per se. I think they wanted someone with real football kudos, with someone who can,
create a real buzz that perhaps could create interest for future investors that could persuade a signing to come. Apparently the training ground is already a buzz when you think that Luka Modric might be paying a visit. Might not be anytime soon. Season to finish with Real, of course. This is about what he can bring. And look, it's become quite de rigueur. And I don't know if the guys will know, you know, Kylian Mbappe is invested in Cannes in the French second division and
Fabregas and Henry get involved in Como in Italy it's perhaps it's an easier route than management perhaps for footballers to spend their downtime I don't know that is a really key and intriguing question and hopefully we'll get the chance there's no why Swansea have done it it's obvious they get to associate with Luka Modric and
and his 37.2 million Instagram followers who all saw him holding a Swansea City ball and saying that he's joined the club. Is there any chance, you know, as he gets towards the end of his career, that he does a season in South Wales? Well, I think you'll know better than I, Adam, that I think he wants to stay on at Real, even though he's out of contract. He's got a World Cup to think about. Look, the Gower is lovely, as Steve will tell you, but whether it is more attractive than a move elsewhere before the World Cup,
We'll have to see. And plus he has to get Joe Allen up the side, you know, so that's another thing altogether. Chris, lovely to have you with us. Thank you very much for that.
Thanks all. Great stuff. Chris Watham from BBC Radio Wales. Just remains for me to ask Chris, did you never consider investing in a club? Don't be stupid, Steve. That's a great way to part ways there, Chris. Cheers. I find this whole Modris thing, I mean, it's caught me completely by surprise. I mean, that whole sort of, you put it well, why Swansea, Steve? You just didn't come out and say it like that. But that, you know, it does, it's great for Swansea, but what, you know, what,
what's the connection there? Has he ever played against Swansea, do you think? I was thinking he must have done. They had one season in Europe, didn't they, because they won the League Cup, but I don't remember that happening. Has he ever just flown into Swansea? Does Swansea have an airport? Just to visit the... No, well, I think it's Cardiff, isn't it? So...
Has he ever flown Ryanair into Cardiff and then got the train to Swansea? All right, investing in an airline, are we? Right, that's it for the Monday Night Club. Big thank you to Chris, Steph and Adam. Subscribe to the Football Daily to get a notification every time we upload a new episode. Jose Mourinho speaks to us in how to win the Champions League. There's the Women's Football Weekly with Ben Haynes and reaction to Tuesday's Champions League quarterfinals. As always, thank you so much for listening.
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